S06.E15: Miguel

[txhorns79]

2 minutes ago, BonnieD said:

Playing devil's advocate on the topic of Miguel's kids shuttng him out, I believe if we saw the story from their POV, it would be about a mostly absent father who was so focused on getting ahead in the world he didn't forge important bonds when they were young. He improved as he aged, but they did not witness it, nor did they have a history with him that would make it at all easy to forgive those lost years. And it sounds as if he let the situation fester rather than really reaching out and trying to make amends. 

Interestingly, when we saw them at Thanksgiving back in the 3rd season, the son made a comment to Rebecca making it sound like he thought she was the reason his parents had divorced and that was why he was angry at his father.  Miguel then essentially made clear to his kids that the relationship with Rebecca started long after the divorce, and that his son can be angry at him, but cannot speak that way to Rebecca.  The daughter then took Miguel's hand in a sign with a loving look on her face, and the son changed the subject. 

[gonzosgirrl]

So Jack and Rebecca had a tree, and Miguel and Rebecca had a tree. 🥺

[CountryGirl]

10 hours ago, OhSarah69 said:

Yes we are...someone make a Costco run and get a mega-pack of Kleenexes please!

As much crap as I gave TPTB about the "needing a blanket" comment, I really did last night. A blanket to cuddle in and many handfuls of Kleenex.

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I wouldn't have pegged Miguel as an immigrant because of his flawless, unaccented English, but I guess he moved from PR early enough to lose it.

One of my best friends is an immigrant. She moved to the US when she was 5. She’s the youngest of three. The accents lessen in severity based on age: her parents have strong ones, her eldest sibling’s is less strong but she still has one, her middle sibling has a mild one, and my friend has basically none. The family speaks their native language with each other and the two siblings who married men from their home country speak it at home; it’s their kids’ first language - but the kids don’t have accents when they speak English. (The other one married an immigrant from a different country and his native language is what they speak at home, but their kid doesn’t have an accent either.) I find it so interesting.

I’ve skipped a few episodes (skipped last week and whichever week showed how Kate and Philip got together because I don’t care much about Kate or Kevin’s love lives) but I’m going to watch this one. It’s long overdue.

8 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

But knowing how long a person can live with Alzheimer's / dementia because their body is healthy can be so hard for everyone, but especially on the caregiver.  

My great-uncle had it for a good 15 years, if not longer. My friend went through it with her FIL and she said she and her husband were relieved when he passed - they’d already grieved the person he was before. My great aunt just died yesterday and she had it for a few years, and it was so sad to see this formerly vibrant, bilingual person lose all of that.

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Interestingly, when we saw them at Thanksgiving back in the 3rd season, the son made a comment to Rebecca making it sound like he thought she was the reason his parents had divorced and that was why he was angry at his father.  Miguel then essentially made clear to his kids that the relationship with Rebecca started long after the divorce, and that his son can be angry at him, but cannot speak that way to Rebecca.  The daughter then took Miguel's hand in a sign with a loving look on her face, and the son changed the subject. 

I remember that and I remember thinking “huh? Didn’t your parents split up when Jack was alive? How did Rebecca get in it?” It was completely illogical. I could see them being upset that Miguel spent so much time helping the Pearsons after Jack died at the expense of time with his own kids, but that wasn’t what they were mad about (and weren’t the kids gone then anyway? He moved to Houston to be closer to them).

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

In the family scenes, where was Kate’s new husband, Phillip?  Did I blink and miss him? 

When someone asked where the kids were, they said Philip had taken them on a nature walk or something like that. (He is in the group shot someone posted above, though I missed that when I was watching.)

[Guest]

This season has been so, so bad. I’m glad the show decided to remind us that it can be so, so good.

[TV Diva Queen]

I watch with closed captions and when they said "and so it goes" is playing I thought it said Billy Idle and it took me completely out of the moment.  I was like "hmmmm did Idle remake this, sounds exactly like Joel"   I hate myself sometimes.

And then when I finally realized what happened with Miguel I did the gasp the Eliza does at the end of Hamilton from the Disney Plus version.  Literally took my breath away.  

I hope with the last three episodes we still get flashback Miquel just as much as we got flashback Jack.

[CountryGirl]

3 minutes ago, deaja said:

This season has been so, so bad. I’m glad the show decided to remind us that it can be so, so good.

I've actually enjoyed this season, but I agree that this episode knocked all the rest of S6 out of the park (pun intended, RIP Miguel). One of the best of the entire series.

[Rootbeer]

I do hope we see Miguel again, if only in Rebecca's fading memories.  

I also loved Miguel's conversation with his mother, who spent her entire adult life taking care of her disabled sister.  Her words about loving someone without expectation of return and how she wanted to be the one to care for her sister; it wasn't a burden but an act of love obviously hit home with him and shaped his approach to caring for Rebecca as she declined.  Just a beautiful scene and demonstrated how and why Miguel became the man he was with Rebecca.

[Boo Boo]

I guess I'm in the minority:  I did not love this episode.  Too many flashbacks, flashforwards and I literally guffawed when Jack's name is mentioned during an argument with MIguel's first wife.  "I'm not Jack!" so now we know even the ex wife worshiped at the shrine of Jack.

[Aloeonatable]

I guess I'm the outlier. I didn't shed one tear. I've never not liked Miguel. I just always saw him as peripheral to the story of the Pearsons.  I also think this was the right time to show his story. It was sweet and did gave us a necessary part of the Pearson saga. 

I loved his and Rebecca's mature romance. I loved that he was appreciated and loved by her children. I loved the backstory of his immigrant family. All in all a good episode, one of the best this season for sure.

[Boo Boo]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When the big three confronted Miguel about the need to hire a full-time nurse, Randall said a lot of nice things, but I hated the way he said them. He sounded like he was talking to a child.

I seriously started to dislike Sterling for his portrayal of Randall at times and I didn't think that was going to be possible.

[Good Queen Jane]

I'm figuring the time lapse from the growth of the apple tree. The house was built in 2021-22. Miguel says they planted the tree from a seed. Google says an apple tree first produces fruit 8-10 years from being planted. Miguel and Rebecca pick an apple and Miguel says that they didn't expect to live to see it bear fruit but that they did. In the scattering of the ashes scene at the end, the tree is much larger, so I would say another 10 years. That would put Rebecca's deathbed at a lot later than 2030, the year we have been assuming that it happens. That seems to be based on the age of Kevin's son. But what if the boy we saw isn't Nicky but a son he has with Sophie? Maybe Kevin goes on to have two more children with Sophie and the new Big 3 are in their late teens and have not been shown yet.

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, Good Queen Jane said:

I'm figuring the time lapse from the growth of the apple tree. The house was built in 2021-22. Miguel says they planted the tree from a seed. Google says an apple tree first produces fruit 8-10 years from being planted. Miguel and Rebecca pick an apple and Miguel says that they didn't expect to live to see it bear fruit but that they did. In the scattering of the ashes scene at the end, the tree is much larger, so I would say another 10 years. That would put Rebecca's deathbed at a lot later than 2030, the year we have been assuming that it happens. That seems to be based on the age of Kevin's son. But what if the boy we saw isn't Nicky but a son he has with Sophie? Maybe Kevin goes on to have two more children with Sophie and the new Big 3 are in their late teens and have not been shown yet.

Sophie and Kevin were 45 when they reconnected at Kate's wedding. We don't know yet how long they dated before getting married.  I cannot see them having any children of their own.  

[Empress1]

12 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

That would put Rebecca's deathbed at a lot later than 2030, the year we have been assuming that it happens. That seems to be based on the age of Kevin's son.

Doesn’t the show say 2030 somehow? Like, maybe not explicitly having a character say “we are at Rebecca’s death bed in the year 2030” but isn’t there something concrete that puts us there? I can’t remember what but I’m fairly sure the year isn’t an assumption.

[MyArchangel]

1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I watch with closed captions and when they said "and so it goes" is playing I thought it said Billy Idle and it took me completely out of the moment.  I was like "hmmmm did Idle remake this, sounds exactly like Joel"   I hate myself sometimes.

Billy Idol!  OMG, I am sorry, but I am now giggling hysterically at that thought as the catalogue of Billy Idol songs run through my head....sometimes we need a light moment....the minute the music started and I knew the song, I knew we were losing Miguel. 

[peeayebee]

I'm a softy. I started tearing up at the beginning of the ep where we see Miguel's routine taking care of Rebecca. Of course that wasn't the last time I cried. I had at least five balled-up tissues by the end.

12 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Jon Huertas did a beautiful job. 

Yes yes yes. This was a beautiful ep, and it wouldn't have been without his touching performance. 

12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was also a little surprised that his boss at the construction company had no real reaction when Miguel told him he submitted two resumes to them, and they only called him back when he used the more Anglo-sounding name.          

I expected the boss to react differently, but I'm glad he didn't. We didn't need additional conflict. I think it was enuf for Miguel to reveal that he had submitted the resume twice, under the two different names. I assume he learned to do that after previous experiences.

12 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Is it wrong that I want another Miguel episode? Miguel and Rebecca spin off?????

Yeah, I didn't know I needed a Miguel spinoff until I watched this ep.

11 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

It was also a nice (much needed) break to have less of the Big Three and their self-indulgent pity parties and petty problems.

Hee. Pity parties petty problems. Nice alliteration.

I'm a little confused about something. The doctor at the beginning asked Miguel how he was doing after the hip replacement. I was, What? Then later we see him fall in the snow. Did he have a hip replacement because of that fall? If so, then that scene at the beginning with the doctor was a flash-forward, or I guess a lot of the scenes following that were flashbacks. Maybe if I rewatch it'll be clearer.

I want Big Three Homes to build me a house. That place was gorgeous.

Alzheimer's is a sh*tty disease. Just look at how many people here have had relatives who had it.

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I'm a little confused about something. The doctor at the beginning asked Miguel how he was doing after the hip replacement. I was, What? Then later we see him fall in the snow. Did he have a hip replacement because of that fall? If so, then that scene at the beginning with the doctor was a flash-forward, or I guess a lot of the scenes following that were flashbacks. Maybe if I rewatch it'll be clearer.

I'm not sure how far in the future that was, but the older Rebecca/Miguel scenes at the new house are sometime after Kate's wedding (where we learned he was on BP meds). I think the hip replacement was sometime after the wedding, but relatively recent to the scene since the doctor was asking how he was doing with it. I don't think the hip replacement was after the fall in the snow (but he was left with a hell of a bruise). I think the doctor scene was just to let us know that Miguel has his own health problems that are progressing, as older people do, leading to concerns about how long he'll be able to physically care for Rebecca.

 

[izabella]

17 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I expected the boss to react differently, but I'm glad he didn't. We didn't need additional conflict. I think it was enuf for Miguel to reveal that he had submitted the resume twice, under the two different names. I assume he learned to do that after previous experiences.

That was really interesting, yet odd.  I know they were trying to make a point, and I totally get that.  However, that manager really wanted and needed someone who spoke Spanish, so I would have expected they would jump at a resume from Miguel Rivas who had all the experience they liked in Mike Rivers. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by izabella

[MyArchangel]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

My great-uncle had it for a good 15 years, if not longer. My friend went through it with her FIL and she said she and her husband were relieved when he passed - they’d already grieved the person he was before. My great aunt just died yesterday and she had it for a few years, and it was so sad to see this formerly vibrant, bilingual person lose all of that.

Alzheimer's is such a gutting disease. Its so difficult watching a loved one slowly slip away into a world where they can't be reached. We are going through it with my MIL. She is 96. She fell in early Dec and broke her hip. I'm an ER/trauma RN so the minute I heard the crash at 11:45pm I knew we were in trouble. I was the one night that I was off, our son who is a fire fighter/EMT was off and my husband was off. I have been providing daily care for mom and then when I work we have had someone come in that she has had for the last 7 years. I prepared my husband for what would potentially come with regards to surgery, Anesthesia is the big unknown. How it effects the brain of those with Alzheimer's can very widely. Unfortunately it put mom into a world where she no longer even recognizes me. We have her in a fantastic facility that can provide round the clock care as she is no longer able nor willing to walk. She was the inspiration for me to go into the nursing field. She was one of the 1st RN's in NJ after WWII to be certified in placing IV's. Prior to that change, doctors were the only one's placing IV's into patients. I think the one thing that TIU has done really well is showing how difficult it can be for caregivers of those with Alzheimer's. My best friend who lost her grandmother while we were still in high school to Alzheimer's once said to me when I asked her how she was doing said "My grandma isn't here any longer, its just that her body doesn't know to stop". I see so many elderly patient's that come through our emergency department and you'd be surprised how many have very few family members with them. While it is a horrible disease for the person it effects, its also very draining emotionally on those around the patient as well. 

I got really choked up when Randall and Kate told Miguel how much they loved him. I think that was probably the first time he had been told that by anyone outside of his mom. I also think that he saw the devotion his mom had for her sister and that gave him the foundation to take care of Rebecca the way he did. It's great that Kevin has the financial ability to care for Rebecca and Miguel by having full-time care there with them but unfortunately many people don't have that ability and it is why it is so difficult for family members to be caregivers. I can't tell you how many family members have said to me over the years "We have to have mom/dad/grandma/grandpa at the nursing home because we can't take care of them they way they need". So cudo's to TIU for showing the physical and mental drain that Miguel has gone through in caring for Rebecca. 

 

[CountryGirl]

I was so afraid this episode would end with Miguel's death and then, it did 😢, but I'm not going to focus on that for a moment. I'm just going to soak in one of the best episodes of the entire series. 

Miguel getting his due and being allowed to step out of the long shadow cast by Jack has been a very long time coming. 

I loved that they showed how Rebecca didn't "get" Miguel early on (kind of like S1 me when they had the reveal that Rebecca and Miguel were married) and how they slowly thawed the ice between them. Her question: "What is your story?" Him answering (just like his father had once), "I don't know, but it's a good question. Ask me later."

Seeing him as a young boy in Puerto Rico, playing baseball with his buddies, and showing off the cutest of curly locks. The move to the states and showing the disparity between worlds as they show him watching his favorite baseball player on Miguel's father's boss' TV (and yes, I was initially worried where they would go with that plotline) to Miguel and family listening to a game on the radio. The boss telling Miguel that "where you sit is all that matters," which I think Miguel took to heart, not just with respect to watching a baseball game but life, itself, and helped guide his ambition to be a success.

Him applying as Mike Rivers vs Miguel Rivas - brilliant move, but one that would take him further from his roots and it's apparent his drive causes him to miss time with his family of origin, creating friction with his father (that and his changing his hair to better fit in).  It seems their relationship never regains the footing it had in his younger years and Miguel feels the regret when his father dies, even as his mother tries to reassure him that his father died proud of him. In a preview of his later relationship with an ailing Rebecca, he notes how hard his mother works to care for the sister the family brought with them to America, who sadly suffered a stroke in her early 20s. Miguel is clearly feeling lost here as this is after the demise of his marriage to Shelly and while I do think he is partially responsible with putting work first too much of the time, I also think she had a rose-colored view of the Jack/Rebecca marriage. She, apparently, never got the memo that Jack came home late often (missing the kids' bedtime), not to mention the drinking. And I do think she influenced the kids' views on him (again, not giving him a pass on his prioritizing work above family) but I do wonder if she tainted that well a little bit. Just the nastiness of her reply to Miguel, quite rightly saying, "I'm not Jack" and her" You are certainly not." We also saw him reaching out several times, but those calls go unanswered. And did Miguel buy his dad's former boss' house? It sure looked similar to me.

His mother also, wisely, tells him he will find love again and it's not long after that he reconnects with Rebecca via Facebook, eight years after the Thanksgiving where Rebecca realized, too late, her feelings for him had most definitely changed.

I loved the scenes of them reconnecting (via FB) and picking up where they left off. The bit of awkwardness when they finally have dinner, but then, with him confessing to feeling homesick when he left her and her moving to kiss him (which, get it, Rebecca!), we see their friendship-turned-romance really catch fire.

And speaking of, at long last, we get to see them in bed together. Which...about damn time. They address the elephant in the room aka Jack and Rebecca states he would want what's best for them and that is that. 

FF to Thanksgiving that year and of course, the Big 3 would walk in on them kissing before they have a chance to tell them about their relationship.

Kevin...you suck and need to grow the fuck up.

Kate and Randall were shocked but at least not assholes about it.

Those later scenes of Miguel caring for Rebecca ring so true as it is so often the caretaker who lets their own health suffer in the wake of caring for a loved one. I saw it with my MIL and I will always wonder if her own health, especially mental, would have been better if she had allowed nurses to come in and help more. The lack of sleep alone clearly takes a toll and we see that with Miguel. 

Rebecca's panic when Miguel left her side to try and get a nap and him having to be "on" all of the time for her. MIguel's drive for success is a continuing theme when he tries to disagree with the Big 3 about getting full-time nursing care and we see them tell him that he has more than honored his vows to their mother and are just coming from a place of wanting to help her and him. It was a very sweet moment. The body language, that little hand touch from Randall.

Kevin's visit to Miguel's son. Kevin...I love you and thank goodness you grew the fuck up.

When they showed his son there at Christmas, that's when I gave in to the tears that were threatening since the montage of Miguel caring for Rebecca scenes started. 

And then what I was dreading happening, happened, as Billy Joel queued up and damn.

Knowing that Miguel didn't get to care for Rebecca until the end of her days just gutted me.

As did seeing Rebecca in her wheelchair, having outlived two husbands and I think she is far more lost without her rock, Miguel.

The tree that was planted for Miguel and some of his ashes spread there.

The family gathered (and I wish we had seen more of Miguel's daughter, Amber, as they seemed to have a closer relationship).

Kevin and Andy traveling to Puerto Rico to spread the rest of the ashes on the field where Miguel once played baseball. 

I'm one that despite his flaws (and annoyance at the St Jack perpetuation by show) still likes and appreciates Jack and thought him a good partner for her youth, but Miguel was the perfect husband for her middle and later years. And as sad as it is for her to lose them both, how lucky she was to have been loved by both and they, in return, to be loved by her.

But yes, one of the truly great episodes of the series.

And me, thinking about it right now.

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, MyArchangel said:

I think the one thing that TIU has done really well is showing how difficult it can be for caregivers of those with Alzheimer's.

My mom is in the middle of her journey.  IMO, TIU has considerably underplayed and sanitized this difficult, gut-wrenching disease. 

[Tabbygirl521]

3 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

Exactly . 3 stupid episodes and an incredibly improbable romance fir kate, and we needed a whole season of miguel. Love how miguel got his job applying as someone else. The best character on the show .

I was relieved when he told his new boss his real name; I was so afraid he had had a phase of trying to Americanize as “Mike Rivers”!

[MyArchangel]

5 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

My uncle, by marriage, passed April 2012 at 69 from a sudden heart attack. His mom had had Alzheimers for years and was 90. Her other son debated telling her. He did, but she consistently forgot he passed. She lived until 2021. People hold onto this disease for so long, like Rebecca.

Violet, it is very difficult watching a loved one retract into a world where they can't be reached. My MIL is 96 and she was diagnosed in 2009. I began noticing subtle things a couple of years before that she either wasn't doing or seemed to need help with. Even though she had been a nurse (as am I) she continually refused to see a doctor when I would ask her if I should make an appointment for her. I think somewhere in her subconscious she knew what was going on but didn't want to hear those words from the doctor. Even after her diagnosis, she refused to take the medication prescribed by her doctor because as she said "it makes me sick to my stomach". It is truly a cruel, cruel disease that literally robs a person of themselves. 

[Blakeston]

53 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Doesn’t the show say 2030 somehow? Like, maybe not explicitly having a character say “we are at Rebecca’s death bed in the year 2030” but isn’t there something concrete that puts us there? I can’t remember what but I’m fairly sure the year isn’t an assumption.

It was confirmed by production that the deathbed scene takes place in 2030.

11 minutes ago, izabella said:

That was really interesting, yet odd.  I know they were trying to make a point, and I totally get that.  However, that manager really wanted and needed someone who spoke Spanish, so I would have expected they would jump at a resume from Miguel Rivas who had all the experience they liked in Mike Rivers. 

The manager might not have reviewed all of the resumes himself. The first person to look at them may have been an HR employee or secretary who was in the habit of weeding out applicants with "ethnic" names.

(Or the manager could have just subconsciously overlooked the resume based on his own prejudices, without thinking about the advantages of a Spanish-speaker until he actually dealt with a Latino applicant face-to-face.)

I think the writers wanted to quickly make the point that Miguel was facing prejudice, and weren't concerned about how natural the exchange would sound. In real-life, I would have expected the manager to at least make a comment like, "Oh, that must have been an oversight" to try to cover.

And I wouldn't have predicted that Miguel, who clearly wanted the job badly, to accuse the company of bigotry before he even signed the contract. That was definitely a baller move!

[Empress1]

38 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I expected the boss to react differently, but I'm glad he didn't. We didn't need additional conflict. I think it was enuf for Miguel to reveal that he had submitted the resume twice, under the two different names. I assume he learned to do that after previous experiences.

There have been lots and lots of studies that indicate that resumes with ethnic names get less attention. Kal Penn’s full name is Kalpen Modi; he started going by Kal Penn and immediately got more callbacks.

2 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I was relieved when he told his new boss his real name; I was so afraid he had had a phase of trying to Americanize as “Mike Rivers”!

The same friend I mentioned who is an immigrant has cousins that do this; it’s a big point of contention in the family. (The worst is when Americans take it upon themselves to rename people with ethnic names, which I have also seen - “Miguel? That’s too hard. We’re going to call you Mike.”)

[Tango64]

Roberto Clemente's jersey number was 21. Season 6, episode 15. Coincidence, or an easter egg from the writers?

[A.Ham]

16 minutes ago, izabella said:

My mom is in the middle of her journey.  IMO, TIU has considerably underplayed and sanitized this difficult, gut-wrenching disease. 

I'm surprised no one else has brought this up. I get that they do not want to show the abyss of darkness of dementia, but I also thought Rebecca was the best behaved dementia patient ever (with her hair always perfectly done). No screaming fits in the middle of the night, no mood swings or personality changes... I'm not even talking about the absolute worse parts that loved ones cannot manage and land people in nursing homes. They did briefly show her having that "lost" look in her eyes I often see my mom have, but I guess that was their version of her more advanced dementia. I did connect to it when they showed how panicked she became when Miguel was out of sight for a minute. We've certainly experienced that.

And I'm not saying I would have liked to have seen a less sanitized version necessarily, but I agreed about it being considerably underplayed. 

[peeayebee]

29 minutes ago, MyArchangel said:

I can't tell you how many family members have said to me over the years "We have to have mom/dad/grandma/grandpa at the nursing home because we can't take care of them they way they need". So cudo's to TIU for showing the physical and mental drain that Miguel has gone through in caring for Rebecca. 

When our mom had Alzheimer's, my sister was the only one of us four living near her, and she was being run ragged being there for her. Our dad was in declining health but still living with mom, but when she'd leave the house and walk who-knows-where, dad would have to call my sister, sometimes at 2 am, to go find our mom. There are stories upon stories. One weekend we siblings got together to talk about it. One brother said it was probably time for mom to live in a home, but my sister disagree. I don't remember how much longer she continued, but it finally reached a point where it was best for mom to be in a home. My sister still feels guilty to this day. 

12 hours ago, nexxie said:

Great episode!

Here’s an interesting interview with Jon Huertas about his participation in creating it.

https://people.com/tv/this-is-us-jon-huertas-on-miguel-centric-episode/

Thanks for that article. I found this esp interesting, from Huertas:

Quote

 

Definitely the hair thing is a big part of my story. It started when I was bullied in high school. Someone called me "pubic head" and said the hair on my head reminded them of the hair that was growing between their legs. It elicited a response from me that was physical, and because I was the victor, I was the one who got in trouble.

To deal with it, I was taken to a salon where they blew dry my hair straight and said, "There you go. Now you look like the white kids." Every day in high school, I woke up at least 45 minutes earlier than all the other kids did and blew dry my hair straight. That was me erasing a part of my identity just so I could fit in and not be bullied. Once I got away from that environment and was around more people like me, I was able to see my hair for what it was worth and see that this is the authentic me and that my hair can be beautiful.

 

Honestly, I didn't notice in this ep that Miguel's hair was at times straighter. His mother said her sister (I believe) missed his curls, but I thought that was just a way of saying she missed him, not that his hair was straighter.

[3 is enough]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

My mom is in the middle of her journey.  IMO, TIU has considerably underplayed and sanitized this difficult, gut-wrenching disease. 

This is true.  I realize there were time constraints and other stories to tell, but the morning routine had a glaring omission, albeit one that probably would not be tv friendly.  Realistically the first thing to be done when Rebecca woke would be to change her diaper. Not pretty, but that's the reality of the disease.

Edited May 4, 2022 by 3 is enough

[peeayebee]

1 minute ago, A.Ham said:

I'm surprised no one else has brought this up. I get that they do not want to show the abyss of darkness of dementia, but I also thought Rebecca was the best behaved dementia patient ever (with her hair always perfectly done). No screaming fits in the middle of the night, no mood swings or personality changes... I'm not even talking about the absolute worse parts that loved ones cannot manage and land people in nursing homes. They did briefly show her having that "lost" look in her eyes I often see my mom have, but I guess that was their version of her more advanced dementia. I did connect to it when they showed how panicked she became when Miguel was out of sight for a minute. We've certainly experienced that.

And I'm not saying I would have liked to have seen a less sanitized version necessarily, but I agreed about it being considerably underplayed. 

Yes, it could have been much rougher for Miguel. My sweet mother's personality definitely changed. At least that was a blessing for Miguel and the Pearsons.

[Tabbygirl521]

22 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

There have been lots and lots of studies that indicate that resumes with ethnic names get less attention. Kal Penn’s full name is Kalpen Modi; he started going by Kal Penn and immediately got more callbacks.

The same friend I mentioned who is an immigrant has cousins that do this; it’s a big point of contention in the family. (The worst is when Americans take it upon themselves to rename people with ethnic names, which I have also seen - “Miguel? That’s too hard. We’re going to call you Mike.”)

I hate that, and I’ve had the renaming happen in my own family. My understanding is that my MGF was renamed at Ellis Island, with his lengthy Greek first and last names shortened considerably (this was many, many years ago). Come to think of it, my own middle name is a more American version of my Greek grandmother’s. Ha! Maybe I’ll change it back. 

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Honestly, I didn't notice in this ep that Miguel's hair was at times straighter. His mother said her sister (I believe) missed his curls, but I thought that was just a way of saying she missed him, not that his hair was straighter.

I noticed young adult Miguel had straightened his hair, but it was also the 70s, a time where some men were giving themselves blowouts.  I couldn't really tell if he was just trying to be fashionable or if Miguel had other reasons to relax his curls.  It was the same Christmas scene where we find out Miguel was flexing with a new muscle car.  

[Haleth]

I guess no one bothered to check “Mike Rivers’” references?

[coconspirator]

My folks are both in their 70’s. Neither has dementia and they are both still able to be independent and enjoy life as retirees, but this episode hit hard because I know what could be coming. I was keeping those feelings at bay until “And so it goes” started. That just about did me in. I felt that as if it gut punched my soul. Damn you show but also good job show. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by coconspirator

[Maurina]

This was such a good episode but SO hard to watch.  Miguel's character has been so neglected over the course of this series and this ep was a wonderful tribute to him.  But the whole thing was just so sad.  I wish we could have seen more of the happiness he and Rebecca had as a couple.

[gonzosgirrl]

When the Big 3 confront (that seems like a harsh word for what they did) Miguel about accepting help for both Rebecca and himself, both Kate and Randall say 'we' love you. If I'm remembering correctly Kevin does not say it, but he shows it by interceding with Miguel's son on his behalf and apparently bringing them back together. I think that's a pretty telling depiction of them - Kate and Randall talk, Kevin does.

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Doesn’t the show say 2030 somehow? Like, maybe not explicitly having a character say “we are at Rebecca’s death bed in the year 2030” but isn’t there something concrete that puts us there? I can’t remember what but I’m fairly sure the year isn’t an assumption.

I've never known where the 2030 assumption in these forums came from. In the flash-forward to Rebecca's deathbed, Randall is aged much older than 55 IMO. I say this as a 52-year-old. I also thought Miguel and Rebecca looked quite a bit older in these scenes than at the wedding and yet the Big Three remained fairly ageless. Then more time passes before Miguel dies and then Rebecca. It's so unclear.

I, too, had wondered if Kevin's son in the FF was not Nicky, but a younger son. But it does seem unlikely. 

I don't think I could have taken a less sanitized version of Rebecca's illness. Last night's ep had me full-on sobbing, not in the way that "oh, this was such an emotional episode" -- but more because it got me thinking about my own aging parents, even though they're in pretty good health now. I was pretty depressed afterward. I think touching on the reality without showing all the ugly bits was probably the way to walk the tightrope for this show. Too much reality would have me -- and probably others -- tuning out.

1 hour ago, coconspirator said:

My folks are both in their 70’s. Neither has dementia and they are both still able to be independent and enjoy life as retirees, but this episode hit hard because I know what could be coming. I was keeping those feelings at bay until “And so it goes” started. That just about did me in. I felt that as if it gut punched my soul. Damn you show but also good job show. 

Exactly this for me, too.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Jillybean

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I remember that and I remember thinking “huh? Didn’t your parents split up when Jack was alive? How did Rebecca get in it?” It was completely illogical.

Miguel's children had the idea that their father had always carried a torch for Rebecca -- despite his being their Uncle Jack's best friend -- and thought this doomed their parents' marriage. Or maybe worse, made a farce of it: the source of their own existence.

[Violetgoblin6]

25 minutes ago, coconspirator said:

My folks are both in their 70’s. Neither has dementia and they are both still able to be independent and enjoy life as retirees, but this episode hit hard because I know what could be coming. I was keeping those feelings at bay until “And so it goes” started. That just about did me in. I felt that as if it gut punched my soul. Damn you show but also good job show. 

In 2001 I was 27 and working as a waitress in a local restaurant that served many, many retirees. Lots of people in their 50s and 60s came in with their parents. I would become anxiety ridden with fear from seeing the parents suddenly take on the children's role and the parent's role to the child. 

Big oxygen tanks, children reading the menu to their parents, the parents frail and unable to read the menu. My then strong father would come in and he was not even 60 yet. I would say to myself, 'please stay in this time, please stay in this time'. As Randall said in his Kate wedding speech a few weeks ago, time goes by way, way, too quickly and most especially with age. Randall said something, like when you're 5, well that is 1/5th of your lifetime and everything is new. My twenties felt like "baseline" and I took them for granted. They lasted, at least in my mind, a long time. I had no worries about 30 or my 30s. They passed far, far quicker though. My 40s have been warped speed. Years feel like the way 8 months felt 10 years ago. 

I feel sick and nauseous thinking of what is ahead, as everyone reaches this point. Or like my cousins, they lost their parents very suddenly at 69. And, omg, from 2001 to 2022 went by terrifyingly fast. 

 

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Sophie and Kevin were 45 when they reconnected at Kate's wedding. We don't know yet how long they dated before getting married.  I cannot see them having any children of their own.  

Donor eggs?  Adoption (that would be three for three amongst the Big 3)

Edited May 4, 2022 by PRgal

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, A.Ham said:

I'm surprised no one else has brought this up. I get that they do not want to show the abyss of darkness of dementia, but I also thought Rebecca was the best behaved dementia patient ever (with her hair always perfectly done). No screaming fits in the middle of the night, no mood swings or personality changes... I'm not even talking about the absolute worse parts that loved ones cannot manage and land people in nursing homes. They did briefly show her having that "lost" look in her eyes I often see my mom have, but I guess that was their version of her more advanced dementia. I did connect to it when they showed how panicked she became when Miguel was out of sight for a minute. We've certainly experienced that.

And I'm not saying I would have liked to have seen a less sanitized version necessarily, but I agreed about it being considerably underplayed. 

The part that got to me was the perfect hair at all times. It's an obvious wig but they need to mess her hair up to be believable. I don't think i've ever seen anyone Rebecca's age (70s?) have such pin straight hair that looks flat ironed let alone a woman who's very sick.

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

That would put Rebecca's deathbed at a lot later than 2030, the year we have been assuming that it happens.

Back when the first deathbed flashforwards appeared -- the season 3 finale in 2019 -- Dan Fogelman repeatedly stated that it took place "10-15 years from the present." That's the basis of pegging it at 2032, which other sources have since cited. 

[izabella]

36 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I don't think I could have taken a less sanitized version of Rebecca's illness. Last night's ep had me full-on sobbing, not in the way that "oh, this was such an emotional episode" -- but more because it got me thinking about my own aging parents, even though they're in pretty good health now. I was pretty depressed afterward. I think touching on the reality without showing all the ugly bits was probably the way to walk the tightrope for this show. Too much reality would have me -- and probably others -- tuning out.

I'm sure you're right and people would have tuned out.  The thing is, even with so many millions of Americans inflicted with this disease, as well as their families, our society tunes it out so families are left to go it alone and cobble together some kind of care, none of which is as simple as shown here.  By sanitizing it, it makes it very easy for people to tune out, and believe the epidemic of dementia in this country isn't so bad so we don't need to do anything to support families and provide comprehensive care for patients and families.

Edited May 4, 2022 by izabella

[3 is enough]

13 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Back when the first deathbed flashforwards appeared -- the season 3 finale in 2019 -- Dan Fogelman repeatedly stated that it took place "10-15 years from the present." That's the basis of pegging it at 2032, which other sources have since cited. 

Plus, we know Rebecca was born in 1950.  If it is 2032, that would make her 82, and the Big Three 52.  That fits with the aging we saw in the original flashback in season 4 (I think), also with the ages of the grandchildren. 

Another thing that I noticed- I wonder if there will be any conversation among Kevin, Kate, and Randall comparing Jack's sudden death to Rebecca's protracted decline.  It's a conversation I have had with my brothers on more than one occasion.  My father died fairly young (72) of an aggressive cancer. He was gone 4 months after the initial diagnosis, and thankfully did not suffer too much.  Losing him suddenly was difficult, but over time we have come to view it as a blessing compared to watching our mother's dementia journey. 

I just wonder if the conversation will ever come up in the last three episodes.

Edited May 4, 2022 by 3 is enough

[cardigirl]

I'm going to rewatch this episode.  I love Miguel, and I have been hoping for more of his and Rebecca's story for a long time. I wish more of his backstory had been sprinkled in throughout the series. 

I'm not sure why, but after one viewing, this is not on my list of favorite episodes, yet. Nothing will ever beat (for me) Nicky's episode in Season 5, episode 11, One Small Step ...To me that was a pitch perfect episode. 

I was really hoping for the magic of that episode to strike again with Miguel's episode, and yes, I teared up a smidge when Kevin and Miguel's son poured some ashes on the ballfield in Puerto Rico, but I think that would have been so much more effective if we had known about that ballfield before last night. 

Still, I'm glad for the actor and the character that we finally got an episode focused on him. 

[Violetgoblin6]

47 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I've never known where the 2030 assumption in these forums came from. In the flash-forward, Randall is aged much older than 55 IMO. I say this as a 52-year-old.

I, too, had wondered if Kevin's son in the FF was not Nicky, but a younger son. But it does seem unlikely. 

I don't think I could have taken a less sanitized version of Rebecca's illness. Last night's ep had me full-on sobbing, not in the way that "oh, this was such an emotional episode" -- but more because it got me thinking about my own aging parents, even though they're in pretty good health now. I was pretty depressed afterward. I think touching on the reality without showing all the ugly bits was probably the way to walk the tightrope for this show. Too much reality would have me -- and probably others -- tuning out.

Exactly this for me, too.

Yes, thank God. Same with able parents. My dad does have Parkinsons but it is still thankfully mild at this point His two best friends have it and have deteriorated much further. My mom's best friend's husband died of it in 2016. My mom thinks Parkinsons is so prevalent because people are living much longer. All my grandparents died before 80. All born from 1905 to 1912. 

[Jillybean]

27 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Plus, we know Rebecca was born in 1950.  If it is 2032, that would make her 82, and the Big Three 52.  That fits with the aging we saw in the original flashback in season 4 (I think), also with the ages of the grandchildren. 

Oof. I'm 52 and I thought Randall looked a decade older than that, at a minimum.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Jillybean

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Oof. I'm 52 and I thought Randall looked a decade older than that, at a minimum.

The show went too far with hair and makeup on Sterling for those first flashfowards.  They were more concerned with tying those scenes to the marital trouble brewing between Randall and Beth than shooting for accuracy in future seasons.  At that point in filming, the show had not really mapped out yet how the future scenes were going to shape up.  The show did lighten up the grey and wrinkles in later episodes once they had a better hand on the actual date of those scenes.  The aging makeup on Justin is not as harsh as what they initially did on Sterling.   

[hoosiergirl]

I wasn’t as in love with this episode as some here. I liked how devoted Miguel was to Rebecca but the flashbacks were boring. I’m sad they killed Miguel off before Rebecca but I sort of get it. I think I might have preferred him hanging on until she passed and then finally letting go, but I get that Rebecca’s the matriarch so she has to die after him.