S06.E10: Every Version of You

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Who has catered to Kate’s every whim?

I didn't say men did I said she expected them to.

8 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I also didn’t see Jack catering to her every whim, he was loving and patient with her which every parent should be. 

It's been through line throughout the series that Kate was Jack's favorite.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Or locking the door when they go out...

Only in TV would Kate be able to leave an apartment in SF and just waltz right back in.  

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Madding crowd said:

Who has catered to Kate’s every whim? Toby is doing exactly what he wants to do . Her abusive boyfriend certainly didn’t cater to her. Yes her brother gave her a job at one point, many families work together and she was providing a service for Kevin. Is her getting a part time teaching assistant job catering? I’m a former licensed teacher and none of my aides had degrees in education or much experience. I also didn’t see Jack catering to her every whim, he was loving and patient with her which every parent should be. 

Toby is doing exactly what he wants to do and what is necessary for their family; working to support them all.  He tried to find a job in LA after he lost his previous job, he couldn't, which is why he took the SF job.  I don't think he expected it would pay so well or that he would be so good at it or that the work environment would be so great; but he's entitled to realize those things and consider staying on instead of going back to LA where he cannot make as much money and can't be sure he'll be able to find another good fit.

Are we to believe that Kevin gave Kate the assisting job on merit?  That she was the most qualified out of all the many applicants?  That no one else could've possibly done a better job?  That she gave up some other amazing career opportunity just to help her brother?  There is nothing wrong with nepotism, but Kate's entire reason for having the job was that she was available and had no better options and Kevin had the money to pay her.  The fact that she still lived in a very nice place and had plenty of money to go to fat camp etc even after Kevin quit The Manny and she was seemingly not doing anything for him, indicates to me that the 'job' was more of a handout.

Kate doesn't have a degree in education, she has a 2 year degree from community college; she never expressed an interest in teaching.  She initially took the two day a week gig because Toby was unemployed and could be with the kids and they needed the cash.  She didn't expect to love the job, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that it also doesn't pay anywhere near enough to support her especially now that she doesn't have free childcare.

[Madding crowd]

As I said in my post, you don’t need a bachelors degree in education to be a teacher’s aide. No I’m sure Kevin did not look at numerous applicants before hiring Kate anymore than thousands of people who own or run businesses and give a job to a spouse, child or sibling. If I were hiring and a family member needed a job I would give it to them especially if I were an actor looking for an assistant. Kate obviously knows him and what he wants. How many celebrities have family members working for them in some capacity? Quite a few I can think of off the top of my head.

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

but he's entitled to realize those things and consider staying on

He's entitled to realize those things but he's not entitled to make a unilateral decision about the plan they made together (not just "consider staying"; he already decided before Kate even visited) without discussing it with his wife.

[Empress1]

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

There was one Thanksgiving episode where Rebecca and Miguel did celebrate with his kids.  Saying it did not go well is an understatement.  Miguel's kids have decided not to give him a prominent role in their lives.  

They also blamed Rebecca for stealing their dad, which is ludicrous since he got divorced like 15 years before he and Rebecca got together. I remember after that Thanksgiving they went to Randall and Beth’s and Annie hugged Miguel and said “Grandpa!” all excited, and Miguel looked taken aback but happy. I think we’re supposed to assume that he sees the Pearson kids more than his kids’ kids, both for geographical and personal reasons.

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

He's entitled to realize those things but he's not entitled to make a unilateral decision about the plan they made together (not just "consider staying"; he already decided before Kate even visited) without discussing it with his wife.

No he is not but for them to be together one of them is going to have to give up what they want.  We don't know what the LA job was offering salary wise but if it was considerably less than his current job I can totally understand his not wanting to change jobs.

1 minute ago, Empress1 said:

They also blamed Rebecca for stealing their dad, which is ludicrous since he got divorced like 15 years before he and Rebecca got together. I

I always thought that was contrived plot point so viewers wouldn't wonder why we didn't see them.  And also to show how gracious the Pearson kids and grandkids were for accepting Miguel. Which to me is ridiculous.  Why wouldn't they accept  him?  They knew him their entire lives and  he treats their mother well.  

[Aloeonatable]

1 hour ago, gameshowjunkie said:

I liked this episode more than I expected to. Overall sappy but sweet. The Randall as senator seems farfetched until I remember we have a football coach in the senate now so who knows. 

I'm biased with this episode by the fact that I have what feels like a similar relationship with my college-age son who I truly believe can accomplish anything. He's my only child so at least no claims of favoritism can be made. But seriously  he's awesome.

I too have a closer relationship with my son, than with my daughters. Not my favorite, but just closer both physically and emotionally. He is the baby and lives the closest to us. He is very successful in his professional and private life. My daughters are awesome too! It is interesting how birth order, sex, personality, etc determine one's relationships with one's children. 

 

I kind of found this episode boring, but necessary to the story arc. Don't really care about Deja and Malik, nor what political aspirations Randall has. 

[Rootbeer]

4 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

He's entitled to realize those things but he's not entitled to make a unilateral decision about the plan they made together (not just "consider staying"; he already decided before Kate even visited) without discussing it with his wife.

Toby did not make any unchangeable plans prior to Kate's visit.  He did do some preliminary stuff, nothing that was permanent if she didn't agree.  Considering the pros and cons of the situation, I think he probably felt it seemed obvious that they needed to relocate, because, to most people using common sense, it does.

Married couples make plans every day, most don't write them in stone and allow for changing circumstances to modify their plans.  Since he left, he is making a ton of money and loves his job and Rebecca's mother is planning to move to PA permanently in the near future.  Most people would rethink things at that point.

Meanwhile, Kate applied for a full time job in LA and decided that not only was she not moving, but that their marriage depended on him returning to LA, no matter what.

[Crs97]

5 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Which to me is ridiculous.  Why wouldn't they accept  him?  They knew him their entire lives and  he treats their mother well.  

And yet they didn’t.  They treated him with disdain.  He has put up with a lot of crap for Rebecca’s sake.  (Remember when he gave Kevin the pep talk about the play and flat-out says he knows Kevin doesn’t like him?  Randall and Kate weren’t much better.). When we finally get the episode that tells Miguel’s story, I fear it will end with his death and the kids being all broken-hearted when frankly they need to have a whole lot of guilt hit them as well.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Toby did not make any unchangeable plans prior to Kate's visit.  He did do some preliminary stuff, nothing that was permanent if she didn't agree.  Considering the pros and cons of the situation, I think he probably felt it seemed obvious that they needed to relocate, because, to most people using common sense, it does.

Married couples make plans every day, most don't write them in stone and allow for changing circumstances to modify their plans.  Since he left, he is making a ton of money and loves his job and Rebecca's mother is planning to move to PA permanently in the near future.  Most people would rethink things at that point.

Meanwhile, Kate applied for a full time job in LA and decided that not only was she not moving, but that their marriage depended on him returning to LA, no matter what.

And neither one of them bothered to discuss any of their thinking with the other. Toby didn't sit down with Kate and lay out his thoughts about their original plan or his (perhaps unexpected) feelings about his job, he sprung a house on her and pretended that two days before they would have to put in an offer was "plenty of time" to think about it (no pressure, right?), when she was still under the impression that he was still on board with looking for something closer to home. And now she's put her hat in the ring for a job opening and didn't tell him that, either. Neither one of them looks good here.

[Empress1]

6 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I always thought that was contrived plot point so viewers wouldn't wonder why we didn't see them.  And also to show how gracious the Pearson kids and grandkids were for accepting Miguel. Which to me is ridiculous.  Why wouldn't they accept  him?  They knew him their entire lives and  he treats their mother well.  

The grandkids do - he’s the only grandfather they’ve ever known on that side, so of course they’d just know him as Grandpa (and Tess and Annie accepted “Grandpa William” pretty readily too, and loved him). The Big Three didn’t. Kevin gave Miguel shit until very recently. In the “Taboo” episode, Kevin said something like “what you’ve got going with Mom would cause my dad to turn over in his grave,” and that opinion remained unchanged after they got together for real. He’s only recently started treating Miguel decently.

[izabella]

6 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

No he is not but for them to be together one of them is going to have to give up what they want.  We don't know what the LA job was offering salary wise but if it was considerably less than his current job I can totally understand his not wanting to change jobs.

I find this whole story line supremely irritating.  Millions of people move for jobs each year, especially in IT and consulting.  It's not the end of the world.  Often, they move multiple times during a career, including employer-driven job transfers.  One of my friends from college moved year after year all over the country as her husband was transferred or he applied for and got better positions, and she didn't pout and mope and end her marriage over it.  Nope.  She called the movers and got on with life.  And she worked full time, too, so she had to wangle job transfers or find new jobs, too.  A committed couple works together for the overall best for the family, not fighting over individual wants.  But then there would be drah-muh, so I guess that's what we get.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

And yet they didn’t.  They treated him with disdain.  He has put up with a lot of crap for Rebecca’s sake.  (Remember when he gave Kevin the pep talk about the play and flat-out says he knows Kevin doesn’t like him?  Randall and Kate weren’t much better.). When we finally get the episode that tells Miguel’s story, I fear it will end with his death and the kids being all broken-hearted when frankly they need to have a whole lot of guilt hit them as well.

 

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

The grandkids do - he’s the only grandfather they’ve ever known on that side, so of course they’d just know him as Grandpa (and Tess and Annie accepted “Grandpa William” pretty readily too, and loved him). The Big Three didn’t. Kevin gave Miguel shit until very recently. In the “Taboo” episode, Kevin said something like “what you’ve got going with Mom would cause my dad to turn over in his grave,” and that opinion remained unchanged after they got together for real. He’s only recently started treating Miguel decently.

They still treated him better than his kids treated Rebecca.  And they never excluded them from their lives.  I think their being reluctant to completely embrace Miguel was another plot contrivance.  I'm pretty sure they expected the audience to also be reluctant to accept Miguel with Rebecca. Hence the lack of an episode showing them falling in love and getting married.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

Kate didn't say that she was never going to move to SF.  She said she was not ready to move.  Yes, she did not tell Toby about applying for that job.  But, applying for a position is not the same as getting it.  It is possible that Kate wants to try just for the sake of trying before moving to SF and giving up on her dreams to support her husband.  She should be communicating with Toby about this.  

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

Often, they move multiple times during a career, including employer-driven job transfers. 

That is a good point. What if Toby did take the LA job and six months later they wanted  him to transfer to another city?  Does Kate think he should quit that job and find another one in LA?

[Katie111]

Toby doesn’t work at a McDonalds franchise.  He has a real job that pays real $$ that I assume takes some time and money to onboard someone to.  I don’t know why Kate ever thought this was a “temporary” situation.  I can see giving it a couple months to make sure he likes the job and the city but after that you pack up your family and head to SF.  She can’t live on her salary alone so unless he wants to move to subsidized housing, you do what’s best for for the FAMILY bad move to where the $$ is.   As someone said upthread, this happens everyday, and in most cases they are not so fortunate to be moving for a job with incredible pay and co-workers.  More often, people are moving from one crappy job to another but to a location with a cheaper cost of living or more jobs.  Kate is an entitled spoiled brat who is lucky to have found one person to love her.   

[BC4ME]

I loved this episode. Randal is my favorite and I thought it was sweet with him and his mom, and the flashbacks. I cried. A lot of it hit close to home for me.

Also, how could it be a bad episode with one of my favorite Cat Stevens songs of my youth at the end? 

[izabella]

34 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

And neither one of them bothered to discuss any of their thinking with the other. Toby didn't sit down with Kate and lay out his thoughts about their original plan or his (perhaps unexpected) feelings about his job, he sprung a house on her and pretended that two days before they would have to put in an offer was "plenty of time" to think about it (no pressure, right?), when she was still under the impression that he was still on board with looking for something closer to home. And now she's put her hat in the ring for a job opening and didn't tell him that, either. Neither one of them looks good here.

The house was an option, so Kate could try to picture their family in SF.  If that house sold quickly, which it would, or if Kate didn't like it, or if she needed more time or wanted to look further, no big deal.  Toby offered an option, and didn't say they HAD to buy that house. 

If Kate wasn't so dead-set against moving, she could have merely said she needed more time to consider or adjust to the idea, and they could have found a house later.  But not Kate, no, moving was never a viable option for consideration for her.  So she had to immediately turn around and decide to go for a full time job at the school.  She clearly decided she wasn't stepping a foot out of her comfort zone to even consider the option of moving, and that she would end her marriage over it.  Even though she had been the one to say the distance was unsustainable and they had to do something....by which, she obviously meant Toby had to do something like quit his job and move back to LA.

[Domenicholas]

Toby: I don't want to leave a job that I feel validated in, where I have a strong support system, and in a place where I feel most comfortable.

Audience: You go, Toby!

Kate: I don't want to leave a job that I feel validated in, where I have a strong support system, and in a place where I feel most comfortable.

Audience: Stop being selfish, Kate!

The biggest argument I've seen for Toby is that his job makes a lot more money than Kate's does, but as I remember, Kate's job maintained the family well. Kate got the job in the first place to support the family. Toby didn't get a job because they were struggling for money, he did so because he didn't like being a stay-at-home Dad (correct me if I'm wrong).

For all we know, the LA job and Kate's teaching assistant job may be well enough money to help with Jack's needs as he grows older, and even more so if she gets the teaching job.

But it's not just about the money for Toby, as it's not just about the money for Kate. They both are thriving and wanted in their jobs, which in turn has improved their own self-worth. It's unfair to expect Toby to leave his job, but it's unfair to expect Kate to leave hers as well.

Of course, in every relationship, sacrifices and compromises need to be made. If Kate and the children move to San Francisco, then Kate will be sacrificing everything that is important to her outside of her role as wife and mother for a husband whose focus is majorly on his job (Toby is constantly working in both LA and SF, so proximity is not the cause of his always working). 

[madmax]

15 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Eat n Park cookies! So PA  😀 I was so sad when ours closed.

Loved the shout-out, but as my eldest son says, Eat n' Park is overwhelmingly mediocre.  And those Smiley cookies aren't that good, unless you like solid sugar.  Of course, my youngest son loved them when he was a kid and he always wanted to go "eat at Park."

The police car was good, too.  The markings looked exactly as they did in that time period.

1 minute ago, Domenicholas said:

The biggest argument I've seen for Toby is that his job makes a lot more money than Kate's does, but as I remember, Kate's job maintained the family well. Kate got the job in the first place to support the family. Toby didn't get a job because they were struggling for money, he did so because he didn't like being a stay-at-home Dad (correct me if I'm wrong).

Kate's job was just to supplement their savings, which they were living on before Toby got the job in SF.  Toby had to get a job because they had nearly run through the savings.  Kate's part time job as a teaching assistant would never have carried them through.

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 I know that every single person does more monologues than a supervillain, but Randall really takes the cake.  

Ooh, maybe that's the end!  Randall is really a supervillian!

I did enjoy this episode, sorta, even though it was all Saint Randall, all the time.  Mandy Moore's acting is what sold it for me.  She deserves all the Emmys.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, madmax said:

Mandy Moore's acting is what sold it for me.  She deserves all the Emmys.

I'll admit, I wasn't sold on Mandy's acting when the series began, but dang she is killing it this season. I hope, with the huge playing field that is television now, she at least gets a nomination and deserves a win for this season.

[Artsda]

Deja's mother is out there isn't she? She gets treated the best compared to the other 2 and she's going to say she's not his daughter.  If Deja feels that way she should go find her other, who doesn't want her. The people who took her in from living in a car and abusive foster parents you'd think she'd more appreciative and respectful to. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 It is possible that Kate wants to try just for the sake of trying before moving to SF and giving up on her dreams to support her husband.

If Kate's dream is to be a fulltime teacher's aide, then I'm sure there are jobs in SF. Better yet, with Toby's SF salary, she could go back to school and get the accreditation to be a teacher herself. There is no way that she could earn enough as a teacher's aide to support her husband and family except possibly in a coupon-clipping, bad apartment-renting kind of way.

If Kate's dream is to be the family provider, she needs to get the education and skills to get a better paying job. But it seems like what Kate's dream really is is to be the one to call the shots.

25 minutes ago, izabella said:

If Kate wasn't so dead-set against moving, she could have merely said she needed more time to consider or adjust to the idea, and they could have found a house later.  But not Kate, no, moving was never a viable option for consideration for her.  So she had to immediately turn around and decide to go for a full time job at the school.

Secretly applying for a fulltime job when Toby wants the family to move to SF smacks of a power play.

[Cheyanne11]

I'm already rolling my eyes at the future reveal that Malik and Deja are back together and he's the father of her baby.  

[Katie111]

My only issue with Mandy Moore is she just looks too young.  She must be at least 65 if the triplets are 40 and she looks about 55.  I almost felt like her and Randall looked more like a couple on that road trip than a mother and son.  Maybe it’s also the way she gazes at him.  
 

I think Randall helped her out while he was in college but he lived at school (right?) so Kate was actually her day to day companion, not Randall.  But he gets all the credit as always. And why would he ever be her POA when she lives in LA and he lives in PA.  If/when she moves to PA they should probably change it to Randall.  I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal in most families.  My dad called me one day and said you’re my POA.  I’m the youngest of 5 so not the obvious choice but I live close by and my husband is in finance so it makes sense.  None of my other siblings could really care less that I was “chosen”.   They’re probably relieved not to have to deal with it. 
 

Still can’t figure out how Deja made it from a remote cabin in PA to Boston.  Wasn’t there a Kate episode where her boyfriend dropped her off on the side of the road?  There seemed to be nothing around there.  And I love how Randall off handed my asks Miguel to take the girls back to Philly, as if it’s 20 minutes down the road.

[Ohiopirate02]

24 minutes ago, Domenicholas said:

Of course, in every relationship, sacrifices and compromises need to be made. If Kate and the children move to San Francisco, then Kate will be sacrificing everything that is important to her outside of her role as wife and mother for a husband whose focus is majorly on his job (Toby is constantly working in both LA and SF, so proximity is not the cause of his always working). 

One thing that keeps on bothering me with the whole Kate-Toby situation is what is Toby sacrificing when Kate and the kids move to SF?  The writing is off, and feels really regressive.

[Lovecat]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I must have missed it, but how did Deja leave the cabin late at night?  No car was taken….so, she left on foot?  Hitchhiked?  Walked to a bus station?  The danger of that boggles the mind.  

Well if Rebecca can wander off on a different Thanksgiving Day and wind up getting picked up by the Bethlehem Township police, then clearly Deja was able to hoof it to Bethlehem and catch a bus...we'll just ignore the part where Bethlehem/Bethlehem Township is, oh, 40 minutes BY CAR from the Poconos.  Just a little bit of that stretchy TIU geography...

ETA:

Quote

Still can’t figure out how Deja made it from a remote cabin in PA to Boston.  Wasn’t there a Kate episode where her boyfriend dropped her off on the side of the road?  There seemed to be nothing around there.  And I love how Randall off handed my asks Miguel to take the girls back to Philly, as if it’s 20 minutes down the road.

See, that part didn't bother me, because Rebecca and Miguel likely flew into PHL (the cabin is has been established as being in the Poconos, about 2 hours north of Philadelphia...a MUCH further drive from Pittsburgh!), so taking Beth and the girls back to Philly wouldn't have been a big deal, he could have stayed at Chez Pearson until Randall and Rebecca returned with Deja.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Lovecat

[Empress1]

36 minutes ago, Domenicholas said:

Toby didn't get a job because they were struggling for money, he did so because he didn't like being a stay-at-home Dad (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

32 minutes ago, madmax said:

Kate's job was just to supplement their savings, which they were living on before Toby got the job in SF.  Toby had to get a job because they had nearly run through the savings.  Kate's part time job as a teaching assistant would never have carried them through.

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Right. When Toby had the interview for the job he ultimately didn’t get, he said they were close to having to dip into their savings (I assume they were living off severance and unemployment, but both those things run out). Kate’s part-time teacher’s aide pay would be pretty insignificant in their household budget. Toby didn’t like being a SAHD but he also needed a job to support them because Kate’s could not.

I know people say money isn’t everything, but it matters (see also: Kevin doing the reboot, which he didn’t want). They have two kids, one of whom is blind. Toby isn’t wrong that it’ll cost money to provide for them, and he’s in a position to do that. Kate is not in the same position (thinking just about salaries).

[izabella]

15 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

I think Randall helped her out while he was in college but he lived at school (right?) so Kate was actually her day to day companion, not Randall.  But he gets all the credit as always.

This is a great point.  Kate is NEVER mentioned as being the one who was with Rebecca during ALL of her grief, while Randall popped in every now and then yet gets ALL the credit for "being there for Rebecca" after Jack's death.  The only thing we saw of that time was Kate getting upset with her mom going on a date, as if that's all there was to their 10 years together post-Jack when Kate worked at the diner and lived with her.

[mishap]

I think Randall would be so pissed off because  there is a lot of Kate talk, and this is his episode thread.  

I hope this does not come of as critical.  It's not.  It just popped into my head that this would really annoy Randall, and i found that amusing.  lol  

Carry on......

[Empress1]

17 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

My only issue with Mandy Moore is she just looks too young.  She must be at least 65 if the triplets are 40 and she looks about 55. 

Rebecca was born in 1950. I think she looks her age (I actually think they dress her too dowdily) but her voice has always bugged me -Mandy Moore doesn’t really modify her voice when she plays present-day Rebecca.

[peeayebee]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Did Randall even take a bite of his sandwich?

No. He immediately pushed it to the side. To me that showed that he was too upset to eat.

Now Rebecca, however, took one measly little bitsy bite and, I believe, that was that. I guess one measly little bitsy bite was all she needed before she took her pills.

Re how Deja got to the bus terminal (I assume), I figured she called an Uber. Still, I think the show should have had some kind of little mention of how she left the cabin. Also, I think an Uber would be... uber expensive at that time of night and for that distance, but it's the best explanation for me.

[t7686]

15 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 

I was also surprised that Rebecca's "Randall" box didn't fill an entire room.  I've always found it interesting that the show does not even pretend there is a question as to who is Rebecca's favorite child.       

Eh I'm not sure I agree. Last week's episode had me convinced her favorite was Kate. Poor Kevin though...

14 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

 

Finally, I just read Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi recently. It explores the descendants of two Ghanaian half-sisters through both the European colonization of Ghana and Slavery and Racism in the United States. I definitely recommend reading it if you have the chance.

Agreed! Though it was funny, the part Rebecca was talking about is the end, yet in the next scene it shows her reading at some point in the middle.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, t7686 said:

Agreed! Though it was funny, the part Rebecca was talking about is the end, yet in the next scene it shows her reading at some point in the middle.

I guess Rebecca is rereading it???  It is a book that begs for you to read it again in a different way.

[tennisgurl]

6 minutes ago, t7686 said:

Eh I'm not sure I agree. Last week's episode had me convinced her favorite was Kate. Poor Kevin though...

14 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

Kevin was really the Annie of the Big Three, eternally ignored both due to his siblings many issues and not being the favorite of either parent. Kevin even told Randall that, which Randall promptly ignored. Of course how can her parents remember her when not even the show does?  

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Kevin was really the Annie of the Big Three, eternally ignored both due to his siblings many issues and not being the favorite of either parent. Kevin even told Randall that, which Randall promptly ignored. Of course how can her parents remember her when not even the show does?  

One disappointment for me is the way the show has completely ignored Annie over the years.  Tess also has been let down by the writers.  I don't think adding Deja was a bad decision, but with her addition the writing became unbalanced.  And the idea that Randall had to adopt someone to get a child like him rubs me the wrong way.  

[t7686]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have to assume their local library was only open on Fridays during the summer from 9-12 or 9-1pm.  There is no way they spent a full day there in the 80s.  I say this as a kid who loved to read, loved it so much that she went to library school, and is currently working as a librarian.  

And yes, I wondered where Kevin and Kate on those days.

We agree again. Also a librarian and I thought the same thing! 

[JKL845]

Great episode. I always enjoy the Rebecca/Randall scenes. 

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

as I remember, Kate's job maintained the family well. Kate got the job in the first place to support the family. Toby didn't get a job because they were struggling for money, he did so because he didn't like being a stay-at-home Dad (correct me if I'm wrong)

I think they had a conversation about his severance ending and they needed to use savings, which is when Kevin gave his “I make stupid money” speech and offered to help them out.  There is no way her job will support the family in the manner to which they are accustomed.

[Jeddah]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

I find this whole story line supremely irritating.  Millions of people move for jobs each year, especially in IT and consulting.  It's not the end of the world.  Often, they move multiple times during a career, including employer-driven job transfers.  One of my friends from college moved year after year all over the country as her husband was transferred or he applied for and got better positions, and she didn't pout and mope and end her marriage over it.  Nope.  She called the movers and got on with life.  And she worked full time, too, so she had to wangle job transfers or find new jobs, too.  A committed couple works together for the overall best for the family, not fighting over individual wants.  But then there would be drah-muh, so I guess that's what we get.

Sure, millions of people move for jobs each year, but it’s also true that people settle into a place where they want to stay and raise their family. Those are both valid choices. There are people who turn down jobs with lots of money because they don’t want to move. Good for your friend who moved for her husband every year, but that sounds miserable to me. It’s something a couple should discuss together like reasonable people, and neither should just assume they should always follow the money.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One thing that keeps on bothering me with the whole Kate-Toby situation is what is Toby sacrificing when Kate and the kids move to SF?  The writing is off, and feels really regressive.

He works extremely hard to single-handedly support his family and not require his wife to work. Just because he loves his job, doesn't mean it's not exhausting. He said as much in the last episode. As someone who's worked in tech for over 15 years, I can 100% relate to his situation. Even if the company culture and coworkers are great, the workload and expectations are incredibly high.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

He works extremely hard to single-handedly support his family and not require his wife to work. Just because he loves his job, doesn't mean it's not exhausting. He said as much in the last episode. As someone who's worked in tech for over 15 years, I can 100% relate to his situation. Even if the company culture and coworkers are great, the workload and expectations are incredibly high.

And that still leaves Kate as being the one who is sacrificing more.  She's the one who will be with the kids while Toby is working 70 hours a week.  She's the one who will be responsible for the laundry, the grocery shopping, the cooking, the cleaning, bath time, bedtime, etc.  Unless he is pulling in enough money to afford a nanny and housekeeper.  

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And that still leaves Kate as being the one who is sacrificing more.  She's the one who will be with the kids while Toby is working 70 hours a week.  She's the one who will be responsible for the laundry, the grocery shopping, the cooking, the cleaning, bath time, bedtime, etc.  Unless he is pulling in enough money to afford a nanny and housekeeper.  

We know they have a part-time babysitter, and it's very possible they also have some household help, since we've never seen either Kate or Toby do any housework. Groceries can be delivered, a cleaning service can come for a few hours a week, they can even get a meal delivery service if Kate doesn't want to cook - none of those things are prohibitively expensive.

[SunnyBeBe]

I respect widows for sure, but when Jack died why was it that the kids had to hold Rebecca up for years?  They were still children.  She was the parent. Though painful, wouldn’t the adult be able to grieve and move forward?  Did Randall sense his mother couldn’t deal and so he jumps in as her rock?  I watched my grandfather lose the love of life at age 45 (yes, he was a young dad and young grandpa).  And, his wife, my grand mama, was a saint.  Yet, he moved on.  
 

I just keep getting the impression the show sanctions dysfunction in the family.  Like it’s saying, the FIRST love is the most important. That’s your soul mate and they were perfect for you and you never grieve enough when there’re gone.  Their memories should haunt you.  I don’t see this as healthy, though I suppose it gets tears and that keeps the ratings up.  

[himela]

I found this episode really slow and I was bored. I also have trouble believing that old Rebecca is 65+ years old and is 41 years old Randall's mom so I couldn't get into the sentiment. I think that in this whole episode they were trying to force emotions rather than let them run naturally.

I liked that Deja apologized and that Kate was strong enough to express her needs and her decisions to Toby.

[mansonlamps]

9 minutes ago, himela said:

I found this episode really slow and I was bored. I also have trouble believing that old Rebecca is 65+ years old and is 41 years old Randall's mom so I couldn't get into the sentiment. I think that in this whole episode they were trying to force emotions rather than let them run naturally.

I liked that Deja apologized and that Kate was strong enough to express her needs and her decisions to Toby.

And someone said it earlier in this thread,  but the way Rebecca gazes lovingly at Randall borders on creepy.   I don't think it's meant to,  I think Mandy overdoes it a bit. 

[SunnyBeBe]

So, what do you think Malik said to Deja?

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, what do you think Malik said to Deja?

Something along the lines of "You know I love you, and I want to be with you, but after really thinking about it, it would be unfair for me to let you live up here with me and Janelle.  Janelle is my daughter and my responsibility.  You should not be giving up your youth to help me raise her.  I am also too busy at Harvard.  You need to finish high school and go to college to pursue your dream, not assist me in mine.  I hate to say it, but your dad is right."

[Bumblebee84047]

17 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

(although Nicky seems stubborn enough to be alive in his 100s),

From your mouth to God's ears.