S01.E09: Let the Tournament Begin

[iMonrey]

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What's everyone's take on this thing? Where Fellowes just takes actual events from history and has them happen to characters on the show. I am unsure of whether I think it's clever or kind of half-assed.

I think it's  . . . weird. They borrow, liberally, from a real-life occurrence that happened with Alva Vanderbilt and Mrs. Astor, and transfer the story to the fictional Mrs. Russell. Yet, within this very same story, the Vanderbilts still exist and were name-checked early in the season as a comparison to one's entry into society. So . . . is the show saying this incident happened to Mrs. Russell instead of Alva Vanderbilt? Or did it happen twice? Why weren't the Vanderbilts invited to the ball? 

I think it would have made more sense to either a.) just make the Russells the Vanderbilts, or b.) drop the Astor angle and have Mrs. Russell focused on trying to win over the Van Rhijns. They could have subbed Marian into the Carrie Vanderbilt slot. 

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From the way he explained it (I think in the podcast), it allows TPTB more freedom with the characters. 

You know what would have given them even more freedom with the characters? An original story of their own rather than a mix of fact and fiction. 

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Ada seems to just let Agnes think she's the smart sister. She knows nothing about what's going on in her own house while Ada's seeing through every ruse there is. I will not be surprised if she winds up outing Oscar at this rate!

I suspect Ada already knows about Oscar's orientation. Actually, I think down deep Agnes probably does too.

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The rent-a-chef getting drunk seemed to be lifted straight out of Fawlty Towers.

Samesies! Ha. This subplot felt very tacked-on, like they were checking off the "servant story" boxes and had one left to go.

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Well, Mr. Bertha . . .

Bwah!

[Brn2bwild]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Maybe it was a wink to the audience? Clark Kent was from Kansas which showed to Lois Lane that he couldn't be a good journalist.  

Marian's aunts nor Aurora haven't introduced any young men to her. This was the first ball she attended at and she was a wall flower during the first dances.

Also, why would a man of society chose Marian if he can get a pretty heiress with good connections? 

A new money man wants old money credibility?  Or an old money man who doesn't care about making more money?  Maybe there weren't many, but they surely must have existed. 

[BabyBella94]

54 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I think the Mrs. Astor giving into her daughter was used to convey the real historical issue behind it.  When McAllister told her that if she didn't break down and start accepting the "new money" into society they would just go ahead and start their own society and keep the old society out of it, that was very true to life and was probably already happening.  She was seeing the writing on the wall before this and her daughter's pressure was the straw that broke the camel's back. 

Mrs. Astor was still the Queen Bee even if she did accept new money people. Nobody took her place until after she died. 

[Pop Tart]

24 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

But even they show some sort of reaction, even if it's not a direct emotional one.  They could become crabby, start drinking, abuse the dog, overeat, engage in hidden strange behavior, even silent depression, etc.  It comes out somehow even if a person isn't emotional.  No reaction at all is not IMHO realistic.  That isn't to say we won't see evidence of some reaction next season, though.  It may not be an emotional one.

I don't think she showed no reaction. When she left Raikes office and got outside she was breaking down in tears and Peggy rushed her to the carriage. Then after she got Larry out of the house (before he could give her letters to the Aunts) she had a moment there at the door. And really it's the day of the ball and she'd barely have time to do anything past that point other than to get ready and go. At the ball she has to hold it together, but does again have a moment in the corner after talking to Raikes. Small moments, sure, but they were there. And after the ball, she's clearly still upset when she's laying on her bed. It's been about 24 hours all in all from when she left the house thinking she was eloping to, finding out she's dumped, to then having to attend a major ball, so being numb and putting on a good face all seems pretty natural and relatable to me.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Pop Tart

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

1. Marian had no money, Raikes just fell in love with her.
2. He followed her to NYC and proposed to her. He didn't need her to get in the society, he did it on his own (the opera)
3. He noticed that he liked the society, but was still in love with her, so he asked her to marry him quickly (his talk about "temptations")
4. Only in the evening before the wedding (what kind a man goes out and flirts with another women?) he noticed that he has a possibility to marry a heiress, so next day he realized that he didn't want to live poor ad, while still loving her, decided to dump her. 

In short, he wasn't bad from the beginning but just weak.

I mean Marian could have easily been ruined by Raikes if anyone had found out.  He will pretty cavalier with her reputation and her heart.  I think she's better off because to me weak is the worst thing anyone can be.  Bertha and I agree on that.  

 

Also Raikes doesn't love Marian (he barely knows her) maybe smitten

Edited March 22, 2022 by dmc

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

What's everyone's take on this thing? Where Fellowes just takes actual events from history and has them happen to characters on the show. I am unsure of whether I think it's clever or kind of half-assed. 

If no one was named Astor, Fish, or McAllister I would not miss the Vanderbilts at all, and would not mind if the occasional bon mot dropped into the plot of my fictional tv show. So far it seems half-assed to me, but maybe in a season or two I won't notice it.

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, dmc said:

Well we all knew Raikes wouldn't marry Marion. 

It might have been interesting exploring what would happen in detail to Marion and Raikes, but probably not.

[dmc]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

It might have been interesting exploring what would happen in detail to Marion and Raikes, but probably not.

I didn't think they had any chemistry and I don't think Raikes as a character is interesting. This part of the issue with the writing here.  They committed to this plot with little pay off and tied up their main actress in it for the whole season.  

[Haleth]

39 minutes ago, showme said:

What trick was that?

It was pretty much as in the show. Alva was giving a huge masked ball, event of the season. Everyone who was anyone was invited… except Mrs and Miss Astor. Alva said since Lina never called on her or received her it was inappropriate to send an invitation. Lina gave in and stopped by Alva’s house to drop off a card but never left her carriage or spoke to Alva. Alva then sent an invitation. (I think Carrie’s performance in a quadrille was also part of it.)

[sugarbaker design]

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I suspect Ada already knows about Oscar's orientation. Actually, I think down deep Agnes probably does too.

I agree with Ada knowing.  Ada is that worldly woman of a certain age who goes to great lengths to hide her worldiness.  I don't agree about Agnes.  I'm afraid Agnes is one of those classic TV moms (Hyacinth Bucket) whose denial runs deep.

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

I didn't think they had any chemistry and I don't think Raikes as a character is interesting. This part of the issue with the writing here.  They committed to this plot with little pay off and tied up their main actress in it for the whole season.  

Agree with all of this. And what I often find so weirdly maddening/fascinating about Fellowe's shows. The writing and plotting is mostly just kind of there, solid, but not great most of the time, and sometimes just bad. And yet... I love this? I'm drawn to it and find myself lost each hour in the goings ons with the characters. And I watch the episodes multiple times. 

It's weird. The same was true of DA. I hated the plots oftentimes, thought the writing was certainly nothing to rave about, and yet...I looked forward to each Sunday night when I could watch. And when they made a movie? And I heard the orchestral version of the theme music for its trailer for the first time? 

I'm actually loving GA more than DA. Because...? Hard to explicate. The gorgeous households and costumes? Definitely. How hot I find George Russell? That's a part of it. How much he loves his wife? The interesting view into Peggy's family's world? The snarky moments that sparkle in each episode. Yep. The small, often petty moments of triumph Bertha has? Totally there for it. 

Makes me think of the Full Monty quote: "We may not be young, we may not be pretty, we may not be right good, but we're here, we're live and for one night only, we're going for the Full Monty". That's GA for me - all sorts of "nots" but I'm here for it.

Whatever Fellowes and company are doing?  Guess I'm just as easy to hook as Marian. 😉

Edited March 22, 2022 by Pop Tart

[Pestilentia]

37 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I don't think she showed no reaction.

Hard to tell when her face never moves.  

When I find myself scrutinizing an actor's face in an attempt to discern what look they are trying to put on their character's face, well- that's when I know they can't act. I was literally watching her mouth and her eyes looking for movement to see if I could tell what emotion she was trying to convey and it was impossible.  This one needs to get out of acting and into professional poker playing, because no one's getting a read on that.

[ChlcGal]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I'm sure there are, I know people like that.  But even they show some sort of reaction, even if it's not a direct emotional one.  They could become crabby, start drinking, abuse the dog, overeat, engage in hidden strange behavior, even silent depression, etc.  It comes out somehow even if a person isn't emotional.  No reaction at all is not IMHO realistic.  That isn't to say we won't see evidence of some reaction next season, though.  It may not be an emotional one.  She may react by being overeager to turn over a new leaf and get involved in a not-so-advisable rebound relationship or throw herself into some sort of work.  It should come out somehow.  If it doesn't, I won't find it very believable.

I'm not going to talk up Jacobson's acting in this episode, but to say that we saw no emotion from Marian over the broken engagement isn't fair.  She cried several times, even once during the ball when she realized that he had been planning to go to the ball with the Flaglers on what would have been their wedding night.  Not to mention that it hasn't even been a full 24 hours since it happened.  Give the girl some time.

To tell the truth I assumed that when she showed such muted emotions it was for two reasons: she was still in a bit of shock and she really didn't have overwhelming heartbreak because SHE DIDN'T REALLY LOVE HIM.  Never once - not even when they were making their final elopement plans - did she say she loved him.  I think she got all caught up in his enthusiasm and just got carried along.  Actually, how old is she supposed to be in this??

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

I'm not going to talk up Jacobson's acting in this episode, but to say that we saw no emotion from Marian over the broken engagement isn't fair.  She cried several times, even once during the ball when she realized that he had been planning to go to the ball with the Flaglers on what would have been their wedding night.  Not to mention that it hasn't even been a full 24 hours since it happened.  Give the girl some time.

To tell the truth I assumed that when she showed such muted emotions it was for two reasons: she was still in a bit of shock and she really didn't have overwhelming heartbreak because SHE DIDN'T REALLY LOVE HIM.  Never once - not even when they were making their final elopement plans - did she say she loved him.  I think she got all caught up in his enthusiasm and just got carried along.  Actually, how old is she supposed to be in this??

She showed a reaction but I didn't believe it and I wasn't invested in it.  I didn't believe the actor that played Raikes either. We have to believe this is some whirlwind affair and I don't.  Marian looks like me after I found out Haribo released all pineapple gummi bears but the supply chain issues only got me one bag and that's it

Edited March 22, 2022 by dmc

[dmc]

1 hour ago, showme said:

Who is the more attractive one in your eyes?

LOL

[tennisgurl]

So in the end Raikes didn't have any kind of evil plan, he's just a loser who ditched Marian when he got a better offer. Not too surprising, there were more red flags with him than during a NASCAR race, but I do feel rather bad for poor, naïve Marian. Hopefully she comes out of this stronger, and at least it means that we wont see much more of Raikes the Rake, who I have never liked. He always seemed to be up to something, but I think I overestimated him, he's just a garden variety social climber, not a diabolical mastermind. 

Bertha ends the season on a high note after getting a big win, and while I don't think she's a particularly nice person, I can certainly respect her hustle. She wanted a big call for her daughter to be introduced at, and by god she got it, even if it was through manipulation and blackmail and a heaping pile of waltzing. 

The waltzing was really lovely and well shot, everyone looked great in their dresses. Nice to see Aunt Agnes dressed up extra classy, even if she looked like she was there at gunpoint. Her going on about "deals with the devil" really are so hilariously dramatic, even Ada snarked at her about it a little. Well, I would say she was being dramatic, but high class society of the time really was that ridiculous, so I guess its not totally her fault.

What's less surprising than Marian not ending up marrying Raikes? That Peggy's baby is still alive and that her dad hid him away from her. I admit this is not a story I am looking forward to, as much as I like Peggy and can understand why she wants to find her child. I am more interested in Peggy's writing career and in her relationship with her family than in her running around looking for a baby. How many shows are improved with the addition of a baby exactly?

Aurora has stealthily become the seasons MVP, she seemed to start out as a minor background character but she became a really interesting, likable person, and a great friend. 

I hope that the next season streamlines some of its plots, there is just so much happening that it can all feel a bit overextended, like its biting off more than it can chew.

Even with its overabundance of subplots, I really liked this season and am excited to see what happens next.

[Haleth]

I loved the show and can’t wait for next season.

Ok, so the Marian/Raikes plot and not dead baby storyline were expected, what I’m truly truly grateful for is that the Turner/George potential affair went nowhere.  Whew!

[showme]

10 minutes ago, dmc said:

LOL

Wrong answer.

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

As I understand it:

1. Marian had no money, Raikes just fell in love with her.
2. He followed her to NYC and proposed to her. He didn't need her to get in the society, he did it on his own (the opera)
3. He noticed that he liked the society, but was still in love with her, so he asked her to marry him quickly (his talk about "temptations")
4. Only in the evening before the wedding (what kind a man goes out and flirts with another women?) he noticed that he has a possibility to marry a heiress, so next day he realized that he didn't want to live poor ad, while still loving her, decided to dump her. 

In short, he wasn't bad from the beginning but just weak.

 

7 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Yeah, I think that that is fair. I found an interview with Fellowes about the finale and he noted, " I think he was genuinely in love with her in the early days of his time in New York. It was her presence in New York that inspired him to make his dream come true, pack up his life in Doylestown and come to the city. But the problem is once you’ve gotten a taste of the life, it changes you. In society, a handsome man who talks well and has a good tailcoat can go anywhere. There’s always a shortage in society of young single men. If you talk well, if you have good manners, if you don’t look ridiculous and you don’t get very drunk, you can go anywhere. I know that. That happened to me when I was at university. But Raikes becomes exposed to a way of life that he had barely imagined. He goes to these palaces. He doesn’t want to be seduced by it. He wants to stay true to who he is, but staying true means a very hard life as a lawyer and a long time going by before he could make some money, nevermind the vast amounts he might get if he marries into wealth. It’s very difficult.

 

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I understand that a person can change his/her mind who to marry when the circumstances changes. But most people do it in a different manner: either they honestly tell the truth, or they they do it indirectly by meeting, calling or writing less often. Not that they are painful, too. Instead, Raikes (almost) left Marian before the altar! 

 

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I’m thinking the pickings are slim in Doylestown. Marian was the prettiest thing to ever walk through the door of Raikes’ small town office. He was smitten.

Then Raikes leaves Pennsylvania for NY to chase Marian. He settles and gets a job in NY for Marian. Marian urges him to gain a foothold into society so that Agnes will approve and Raikes does that for Marian. However, while bulldozing his way into society, he meets other beautiful women who are also wealthy. The women from wealthy families take him on adventures and do activities that never thought of when he was just a country lawyer back in Doylestown. He’s gone from mansion to mansion interacting with old money families and their lovely, beautiful suitable daughters who cling to him and are willing to spend their money on him.

Now, he’s not in Doylestown anymore and he has options. Who woulda thought?

My understanding he was trying to convince himself that marrying Marian will either make his love for her stronger or make his love for her real.

RAikes makes perfect sense to me on paper, but as portrayed it just didn't work at all imo. I never saw a guy who was fooling himself and slowly falling more in love with society than his girlfriend, particularly because she was becoming his girlfriend as he was falling in love with society. (As Marian herself helpfully points out this is how it was meant to be going.) The person who leaves behind their true love and goes to the big city and changes is very familiar and real, but here they just made Raikes look bizarre. They did this better on Little House on the Prarie when Marie came to visit John Edwards, for goodness sake.

Didn't help that Raikes and Marian were so uninterested in each other than the just never seemed to notice who the other person really was. It's like they just found themselves in scenes together and thought oh, I guess we're getting married.

Also agree with whoever pointed out that his treatment of her was serious business. Mr. Pickwick got arrested for giving his housekeeper the false impression he wanted to marry her. The only thing this dude ever seemed truly passionate about re: Marian was ruining her reputation, either through hotel-room tristes or broken engagements.

2 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

I don’t think Bertha got lucky. I think she knew the power of both a mother’s love and the stubbornness of a teenage girl who wants to go to her friend’s party.

Except it makes no sense at all that she'd know that. Not only does she not know Mrs. Astor (who's keeping her daughter from the guy she likes, right?) but look how she interacts with her own daughter! Why would she think this was such a trump card?

 

42 minutes ago, Haleth said:

It was pretty much as in the show. Alva was giving a huge masked ball, event of the season. Everyone who was anyone was invited… except Mrs and Miss Astor. Alva said since Lina never called on her or received her it was inappropriate to send an invitation. Lina gave in and stopped by Alva’s house to drop off a card but never left her carriage or spoke to Alva. Alva then sent an invitation. (I think Carrie’s performance in a quadrille was also part of it.)

Except this was a ball given by a social climber nobody liked and everyone had ignored their invitation until Mrs. Astor told them not to, so it's all backwards.

The quadrille, however, was hilarious and fun. Now that's how to waste some money. It was like a Pose crossover.

[MollyB]

4 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

According to the actor, Raikes really did love Marian. I personally didn’t interpret it that way at all.

I would amend that to say he thought he loved her.  My reasoning comes from him pushing to get married to avoid other temptations.  I think he was drawn to the damsel in distress and an infatuation began when first met her.  He's from the same small town as Marian, and when he followed her to the big city, he was exposed to the benefits of better prospects.  The temptations won and he just didn't have the backbone or ruthlessness to tell her to her face.

[dmc]

17 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I loved the show and can’t wait for next season.

Ok, so the Marian/Raikes plot and not dead baby storyline were expected, what I’m truly truly grateful for is that the Turner/George potential affair went nowhere.  Whew!

Turner and George will absolutely meet again next season.  And I suspect Raikes will be back to, as soon as Marian starts seeing Larry he will decide he cannot live without her or he will get married, the woman will die and leave him a fortune and then he will come back for Marian.  

13 minutes ago, showme said:

Wrong answer.

I thought this was rhetorical.  

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Didn't help that Raikes and Marian were so uninterested in each other than the just never seemed to notice who the other person really was. It's like they just found themselves in scenes together and thought oh, I guess we're getting married.

The funny part to me is that Marian wasn't interested in Raikes in the beginning. Raikes worked to change Marian's mind, and was successful. They took a whole 360-degree turn. They're right back where they started.

Also, it was a bit of a rebellion on Marian's part. I think she was doing it because everyone was telling her she couldn't or she shouldn't. She was so stubborn and adamant that she was going to prove everybody wrong.

[Affogato]

Some of the actors elevate the writing, but the writing really isn't good. If the Raikes plot was to play out we should have seen more infatuation at first and less later, and while that may have been intended it was only visible if you squinted at the picture and you couldn't be sure if it was dust on the lens.

 

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, dmc said:

Turner and George will absolutely meet again next season.

George's next stenographer...

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

And I suspect Raikes will be back to, as soon as Marian starts seeing Larry he will decide he cannot live without her or he will get married, the woman will die and leave him a fortune and then he will come back for Marian.

[dmc]

6 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

The funny part to me is that Marian wasn't interested in Raikes in the beginning. Raikes worked to change Marian's mind, and was successful.

This is what makes him a douchecanoe.  And why I know he will be back, because he has no idea what he wants.  

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

This is what makes him a douchecanoe.  And why I know he will be back, because he has no idea what he wants.  

My wife doesn't understand me, Marian...

[AntFTW]

28 minutes ago, MollyB said:

I would amend that to say he thought he loved her.  My reasoning comes from him pushing to get married to avoid other temptations.  I think he was drawn to the damsel in distress and an infatuation began when first met her.  He's from the same small town as Marian, and when he followed her to the big city, he was exposed to the benefits of better prospects.  The temptations won and he just didn't have the backbone or ruthlessness to tell her to her face.

I agree with this. I think he had genuine feelings for her, not enough that would justify marrying her but enough to go through the routine of courtship and dating. In the beginning, I think it started out genuinely. Raikes' eyes were on Marian and only Marian. That changed as he started to break into society and be exposed to other people.

Edited March 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[dmc]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

My wife doesn't understand me, Marian...

And now she has the wretched pallor of the white death.  It won't be long now...surely I can count on your generosity of spirit to get me through this terrible time

Edited March 22, 2022 by dmc

[Atlanta]

I'm excited to see more Gladys out and about next season, and more Larry. I liked Gladys's fire when she said she was done being told what to do and her having fun with her new bestie. And she deserves better than Oscar. 

Bridgerton season two comes out soon so that will be my next dose of costume and tiara eye candy. 

My heart breaks for Peggy and Dorothy. Do we know how old her son is? I'm puzzled as to her father's reasoning of what he did. She was a married woman who had a baby. There's nothing shameful in that. 

I hope there is less of Foghorn Leghorn, er, MacAllister next season. 

Someone mentioned wishing that Pumpkin would raise his leg and pee on Raikes. Hee! Can he also take a poop in his hat?

[BabyBella94]

Also does anybody else think Bertha's triumph came way too easy and too soon...or is that just me..

like irl it took Alva Vanderbilt YEARS for Mrs. Astor to acknowledge her and by that time the Vanderbilts were on their third generation of wealth. 

idk I do hope they continue to snub her...especially since Agnes says that they will deal with Bertha "later"

[Enigma X]

I hear what most of you are saying about Marian seeming emotionless over the breakup, but it is hard to know if it is coming from lousy acting (alone--but I do not hate the actress like some) and/or bad writing and directing. I also feel as if Bertha and Mr. Russell (cannot remember his first name), Raikes, Gladys, Oscar, and so on show absolutely no emotion as well. They are like monotone robots with clunky dialog.

I feel as if most of the servants give us more than flat and monotone dialog. I think the issue is not so much the actors but showrunners who believe that the rich were all monotone droids back then unless you were from the south. Even out of the public eye, they remained this way. <Shrugs> That may be true, but I think it is overexaggerated. 

I am an urban planner and decided a while ago that I am mainly watching this show for the architecture and other historical value.

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

George's next stenographer...

I was thinking he could hire Peggy.

[AntFTW]

1 minute ago, Pop Tart said:

I was thinking he could hire Peggy.

That would be great! I'm thinking if they bring Turner back, it will be in a position that would make George accessible to her.

[Pop Tart]

5 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

That would be great! I'm thinking if they bring Turner back, it will be in a position that would make George accessible to her.

I've wondered how Marian is getting dressed - doesn't seem to have a lady's maid and I know Miss Armstrong isn't helping. Maybe Turner gets hired into the Van Rihn household? I'm mostly being facetious, but it would put Turner back in George's vicinity.

edited to add: Just remembered that Agnes thought Turner was having an affair with Oscar so my farfetched idea is a no go. 😉

Edited March 22, 2022 by Pop Tart

[hoodooznoodooz]

Saturday Night Live should parody this show with cell phones and social media.

[jrzy]

15 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I believe the point of Raikes perusing Marion was to get an “in” to Society. He was more successful than he imagined and is now gunning for wealth too.

Marion-if ever there was a time to show some backbone…THIS WAS IT! 

That story line just made no sense whatsoever,  run away with me Marion...oh wait...maybe I will hook up with a rich young lady the night before and just stand you up ??? What???

 

[AntFTW]

15 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I believe the point of Raikes perusing Marion was to get an “in” to Society. He was more successful than he imagined and is now gunning for wealth too.

But Raikes was pursuing Marian before "society" became a factor. Raikes wanted Marian back in Doylestown, before the glitz and glamor of society. If he pursued Marian to get into society, that was a failed angle. He didn't make any use of Marian for that purpose at all. Marian didn't have much of a social status to be used.

Marian didn't introduce him to anyone special. Marian had no real social clout. She didn't really know anyone.

[Haleth]

12 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

've wondered how Marian is getting dressed - doesn't seem to have a lady's maid and I know Miss Armstrong isn't helping.

Yes!  After the ball when she collapsed on the bed I wondered who was going to help her get out of that gown. 

[Maximona]

16 hours ago, Chippings said:

what was the point of Raikes and Marian?

Assuming the show goes on for another season—which we know it will—the point is to marry Marian off to Larry so she can have a torrid affair with Raikes.

I haven't been a big fan of this show throughout most of the season, but I quite liked this finale.  The gowns!  The jewels!  The chandeliers!  The place settings!  Plus I loved the dialogue between Bertha and Lina:  You'll find I can be a very good friend to you.

Bertha who's quite ordinary with her hair up looks utterly enticing and beguiling with her hair down.  

Fun factoid:  Lina Astor was the author Edith Wharton's aunt-by-marriage.  I am thinking it would be great fun if Julian Fellowes introduced Wharton—then Edith Jones—as a secondary character.

Second fun factoid:  From time to time, the names of Ogden and Ruth Mills were mentioned.  Here's a photo of their country "cottage," five miles away from where I live in the  Hudson Valley:

 

 

[MissLucas]

Worst secret elopement ever! Ada knew, everyone downstairs seems to have known, even Larry got a good sense of what those letters were meant to convey LOL! And then *poof* it deflated like an old tyre.

Good fake-out in the promo. We all thought Agnes was reading a letter by Marian when she talked about someone losing her senses.

Has Mr Cuyper spent the last few months under a rock? He should have known that the moment George brings up Mrs Russell the knives are out. Dude, you can't take someone's money and think you can still snub them.

Agnes smacking down Oscar at the ball was wonderful. Sometimes I wonder if she does not know what she's not supposed to know. Also, forget it Oscar - you're not the catch you think you are. Gladys has an embarass de richesse before her and even without that little problem of yours you can hardly compete. 

The ball scene was glorious (of course it was Fellowes would not deprive us of dazzling jewels and swooping gowns turning clock-wise). When Marian left  to have a good but still complexion saving cry I started to count - Larry didn't quite make it on 3 but 12 isn't too bad. Her immediately spilling the beans to him on the other hand is ridiculous. She nearly ruined her reputation, an elopement would have everybody thinking that they had to marry - that's something you keep to yourself. But she's an idiot with no sense of self-preservation so maybe that was not OOC.

I loved the lighting in the last scene - it really looked like early morning in Marian's room. And there were some lovely details like her gloves no longer being crisp and white. 

And to nobody's surprise Chekhov's gun baby made its first appearance.

'Couldn't we just call it the Middle West?' LOL!

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

as soon as Marian starts seeing Larry he will decide he cannot live without her or he will get married, the woman will die and leave him a fortune and then he will come back for Marian.  

Like when Lavinia Swire died of the Spanish Flu!

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

She showed a reaction but I didn't believe it and I wasn't invested in it.  I didn't believe the actor that played Raikes either. We have to believe this is some whirlwind affair and I don't.  Marian looks like me after I found out Haribo released all pineapple gummi bears but the supply chain issues only got me one bag and that's it

Thank you, it just wasn't believable and nowhere near the type or intensity of reaction that befits the situation.  I get it that some people aren't emotional but there are other aspects to a person's reaction that they show on the surface that make it believable.  She acted like someone saw her teenage crush kissing someone else, not a man she just agreed to marry.  Just how immature and naïve is she?  And nobody believed Raikes, we all thought he was up to no good.  I still think he was.  I don't believe that a man who could one day propose to a woman and the next be out with another was ever really in love with her.  My BS meter is still going off.  Plus even if he was in love with Marion, the actor wasn't able to sell the audience on it at all.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I hear what most of you are saying about Marian seeming emotionless over the breakup, but it is hard to know if it is coming from lousy acting (alone--but I do not hate the actress like some) and/or bad writing and directing. I also feel as if Bertha and Mr. Russell (cannot remember his first name), Raikes, Gladys, Oscar, and so on show absolutely no emotion as well. They are like monotone robots with clunky dialog.

You're right.  It's hard to tell.  It's probably a result of all of the above in varying degrees.  Even if they're given lines duller than dishwater they could still bring some depth to their acting to make up for it.  But they didn't.

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

But Raikes was pursuing Marian before "society" became a factor. Raikes wanted Marian back in Doylestown, before the glitz and glamor of society. If he pursued Marian to get into society, that was a failed angle. He didn't make any use of Marian for that purpose at all. Marian didn't have much of a social status to be used.

Well, that was the theory rolling around on the threads because nobody could believe he was really in love with her based on the lousy acting and dialogue.  Now we know he supposedly was.  Alrighty then.  😉

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Saturday Night Live should parody this show with cell phones and social media.

So you’re saying that Mrs. Astor hate-follows Bertha?? Lol… or does Bertha spam Mrs. Astor?  
 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Arynm]

5 hours ago, BabyBella94 said:

Mrs. Astor was still the Queen Bee even if she did accept new money people. Nobody took her place until after she died. 

My favorite part of this episode was when Mrs. Astor was brought in to see Mrs. Russell and she(Russell) had positioned herself under a huge picture of herself.

The REAL Mrs. Astor would do this all the time. The book I read said that it was her way of doubling her power so to speak. I think we have seen the portrait already, it was on the stairs in the episode about the sale which the Russell's shut down because they wouldn't use her ballroom.

[AntFTW]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

So you’re saying that Mrs. Astor hate-follows Bertha?? Lol… or does Bertha spam Mrs. Astor?  

Everyone's gonna follow Bertha for a charity event and block her right after.

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Everyone's gonna follow Bertha for a charity event and block her right after.

Bertha had to start spamming people with invites first…like on the first (???) episode where she dropped invites at everyone’s house.  
 

and Mrs. A has a private group where everyone can talk about Bertha behind her back…..

Edited March 22, 2022 by PRgal

[MissLucas]

Forgot to add: I hope next season finally deals with the plot nobody really cares for - the Observer  Watson and his obsession with Mrs McNeil.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MissLucas

[cardigirl]

Yes, the ballroom scene, the gowns, and the dancing were all very pretty, but ... this article sums up my feelings about this show very well. I kept hoping for more, but it just fell flat. 

 

 

 

[Nedsdag]

I don't know how a bald English Tory peer has made me completely obsessed with his television productions on people who at one time could own everyone in my little home town, but damn you, Julian Fellowes, as I binge on your nine-episode little merengue.

Is it classic television? Far from it, but I found myself practically in tears at the end of the season finale as was in the beginning with Bannister and Church nodding at each other from across the street.

Here goes:

• Aurora Fane can come over and have tea with me anytime. She didn't have to tell Ada about RAiKEs canoodling at the opera, but it was her duty as a lady and as a relative to tell Ada about his actions. And even though she slightly flinched, she still went to Mrs. Chamberlain's house.  I wish her cousin Marian had her gumption.
• And speaking of "cousins," Oscar dear? If you think your plan to woo Gladys is going to work with your boo John Adams, you are as naive as cousin Marian. John can play the game too and it wouldn't surprise me if he had more game than being your f*ck buddy.
• Shame on you, Mr. Scott! You didn't think Peggy would find out about the baby? You just turned your daughter AND your wife against you. It should be very interesting to see what happens in Philadelphia next season.
• I cannot take credit for this one, but when you mess with daughter of a potato picker, you're going to get "spudded", Mrs. Astor. You thought you had Bertha at your mercy, but, in the immortal words of one Mo'Nique, when you do clownery, the clown comes back to bite. And Miss Bertha came biting. So, it might be a good thing that you two become frienemies in season 2.
• Two biggest laughs of the night were of course, George Russell grabbing Mr. Kuiper by the short hairs and forcing Kuiper and his wife to show up at the Russell's soiree in order to get his loan. Also, Josh from Wichita is a way better French cook than the actual French cook the Russells hired. I also laughed at it because Lord Fellowes went into his Downton Abbey playbook for that one (see the first film).
• I knew Ada had some gumption in her. How very May Welland of her (the character from The Age of Innocence who wasn't as naive as everyone thought she would be). 
• And I left the most obvious for last. Get used to it, everyone! Say it after me: Larrian or #Larrian or Team Larrian, because this relationship will get the play next season. It's a more tame version of Matthew and Lady Mary from DA, but I think Fellowes' audience with lap it up! Granted, RAiKEs isn't out of the picture yet, but I expect to see a major confrontation between him and Larry next season.

Again, Lord Fellowes, this weekend, in addition to watching Season 2 of Bridgerton, I will be rewatching your show from the beginning, even though I've seen them all, some episodes twice. Was it flawed? Absolutely! Some storyline either were too short or way too long. But I am laying the blame on the pandemic, because some episodes could've been longer and perhaps it could've used a 10th episode to conclude the season. Otherwise, this was the ultimate cinnamon coffee cake for me.

And right now, thanks to Your Lordship, I'm watching Belgravia (your other show) for the umpteenth time. Just keep me away from Netflix, so I don't have to watch Downton Abbey for the two millionth time.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Nedsdag