S01.E07: Irresistible Change

[eejm]

1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

I also can’t help noticing, since I grew up near NYC, that he seems to be the only person on the show with a New York accent!

Which is funny as the actor is from Iowa, my home state.  😂

[CarpeFelis]

10 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Thanks for the "heads up" on the trailer for next week.  Sure looked like Marian's purse to me.  Maybe the cracks in Raikes' armor are going to be revealed soon.

I thought the look from Mrs. Fane at the rolling picnic was a reflection of her recognition that Mr. Raikes would drop Marian in a hot second because the young lady sitting next to him in the carriage is from a MUCH more well-to-do family than Marian.  As an "adventurer," he's hunting the biggest prize.  And we all know how quickly he can move in and start proposing to a young woman.

I think casting would have been better if the guy playing John Adams was playing Oscar.  He actually is somewhat appealing to look at.

I went back and watched the scene from episode 1 where Marian’s purse is stolen. The one in the preview has a very plain, squared off frame at the top. The one Marian lost had a curved frame that appeared to have some repousse decoration. (Why these are coming up sideways, I have no idea.)

Edited March 9, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[eejm]

6 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am not saying the actor who plays Marian should win any awards but am of the opinion that she is not even close to being the worst offender when it comes to acting on this show.

I think Louisa Jacobson might be better suited to comedy.  The look she gave when Marian got out of the carriage at the Scotts’ very nice house and realized she had it aaaaaaalllll wrong was great!

11 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

I believe that they've written themselves into a bit of a corner there, as the printer, T. Thomas Justice, is a real life historical figure, so I doubt they'll go that route, which is a shame because they certainly DO have some excellent chemistry.

 

True, and I’m surprised he wasn’t fictionalized with that in mind.  That said, this wouldn’t be the first time a TV show plays fast and loose with the facts of a real person’s life.

Per the show’s official podcast Carrie Coon was eight months pregnant when the carriage scene was filmed.  She talked about it on the most recent episode as an example of how shooting such a glamorous show is sometimes anything but.  Evidently crawling in and out of that carriage while wearing tennis shoes and being super pregnant was (unsurprisingly) not fun!  

Edited March 9, 2022 by eejm

[CarpeFelis]

8 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I think the other part of Agnes's silent treatment is just that she's dealing with what she considers a great social embarassment after her busting in on the luncheon.  She was acting rashly, which is NOT something that Agnes does, so I think part of her reaction toward Bannister is because she can't face that she herself did something so socially unacceptable.  Or maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit (but not Baranski, because she is the main reason why I'm watching this show and I do think she's the shining star here).

I can’t help thinking that anyone who’s as obsessed with propriety as Agnes would think twice before marching over there and creating a scene rather than ripping Bannister a new one upon his return… so she must have one hell of a temper!

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If that's the last we've seen of Turner then her entire arc ended rather anticlimactically. If not, I have no idea where she would fit in at this point. It's not as if Agnes is going to hire her. Maybe Aurora Fane or Mrs. Chamberlain?

I bet Mrs. Chamberlain would see through Turner in a hot second and send her packing!

[MissLucas]

Gladys being cool with Oscar's homosexuality is way too 21th century thinking. Even if she would not recoil in horror once she managed to understand what was going on in her marriage she'd live in constant terror of the scandal. Even if they managed to have a good relationship chances  are that over time resentment would seep in (on both sides). And if they had children it would be worse  because a possible scandal would also wreck havoc on their lives.

Someone posted in last week's thread what Ward McAllister told his wife after they had married. It was pretty cold and cruel and one can only wonder what sort of life she had. He mentioned her exactly twice in his memoirs despite having had four children with her - and him spending her money to finance his lifestyle. Oscar Wilde's wife may had a couple of good years in their marriage (it's unclear when she realized he was homosexual) but after her second pregnancy he was 'repelled' by her (or her body). She did not divorce him when he was put to trial but changed her and her sons names and moved abroad. 

Princess Marie Louise of Schleswig Anhalt, one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters ended up being married to a gay Prince Aribert of Anhalt. The marriage was not a happy one (surprise) and she became anorexic. When his father found out about his son's homosexuality he had the marriage annulled while Marie Louise was on an official visit to Canada. She returned to England (where she had grown up), she considered herself still married and remained single for the rest of her life. 

Tltr: such marriages hardly ever ended happy.

Edited March 9, 2022 by MissLucas

[yellowjacket]

I still get enraged when I see the perfect concrete curbs and wide sidewalks with shrinkage joints carefully spaced according to 21st century standards.  At least they make LJ the second least believable thing in the show.  The third least believable  thing is Aunt Ada embroidering in the dark without glasses.  I guess she wore contacts.

Edited March 9, 2022 by yellowjacket

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, yellowjacket said:

I still get enraged when I see the perfect concrete curbs and wide sidewalks with shrinkage joints carefully spaced according to 21st century standards.  At least they make LJ the second least believable thing in the show.  The third least believable  thing is Aunt Ada embroidering in the dark without glasses.  I guess she wore contacts.

Also, those streets are cleaner than the streets are now, and ours are paved and don't have horses walking up and down them constantly.

[mojito]

3 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Yes.  I was waiting to see Peggy interview the people on the street and hear what they had to say.  She had her book and pen in hand, then nothing.  Why have her go at all then?  Unless they’ll show Agnes and Ada reading the morning papers and comment on the ceremony.  Pftt

She was interviewing a woman when Fortune returned with the snacks. You could hear Peggy asking if the woman was excited and then asking if she could quote her. That's her with her back to you. And then she tells Fortune that the black people wondered how long it would be until they get electricity.

I don't trust Aurora. She reminds me of 50% of the backstabbers I've ever known. Always there with a smile, never saying much of substance or expressing much of an opinion. 

[kristen111]

2 minutes ago, mojito said:

She was interviewing a woman when Fortune returned with the snacks. You could hear Peggy asking if the woman was excited and then asking if she could quote her. That's her with her back to you. And then she tells Fortune that the black people wondered how long it would be until they get electricity.

I don't trust Aurora. She reminds me of 50% of the backstabbers I've ever known. Always there with a smile, never saying much of substance or expressing much of an opinion. 

Yes, now I remember Peggy asking when they would get electricity.  Thank you.

[Shermie]

14 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

And this show celebrates the beginning of light pollution and the obscuring of stars in the night sky.

Unless you don’t engage in any lighting after dark, that’s really a pointless criticism. I mean, you watched the episode, so I assume you used electricity.

10 hours ago, Tango64 said:

With all the period appropriate emphasis on formality, class distinctions, and things that are "just not done," it seemed false the way Turner walked into Russell's bedroom while he was in bed and he had only a very mild reaction.

This. And the fact that she did it, thinking it would be okay, especially since was already rejected. I really don’t like Turner. I don’t like the actress, sorry I don’t think she’s some sort of hottie servant. I don’t like the character, and I hate that the one marriage that’s genuinely loving has to be threatened by this trollop. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

1 hour ago, yellowjacket said:

I still get enraged when I see the perfect concrete curbs and wide sidewalks with shrinkage joints carefully spaced according to 21st century standards.  At least they make LJ the second least believable thing in the show.  The third least believable  thing is Aunt Ada embroidering in the dark without glasses.  I guess she wore contacts.

What about Oscar’s sunglasses? Is this the style from 1880s?

Blake Ritson wore the similar style of sunglasses in his role of Lord Girolamo Riario in Da Vinci's Demons.

[BellyLaughter]

Would someone be able to explain to me what was lighting the chandeliers in the Russell and Van Rhijn homes before electricity... 

[nb360]

Who do people think would have made a “good” Marian, if that role was re-cast…. A Jennifer Lawrence-type person? An Elie Kemper?

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think that Bertha seeing Turner with Larry, after receiving the information that Turner had been seen with a man made Bertha recognize that Turner is a little too much familiar with men (to the way of thinking of the era), which could jeopardize Bertha's ongoing quest to take over the world. 

"A little too familiar with men" is really an understatement. Remember how Princess Margaret and Peter Townsend's love affair was detected - and it happened in the 1950ies! 

I don't think that Bertha thinks only about the outward image, she also loves her son and wants to protect him from the servant who tries to seduce him or has already done it. Like other people in that age, she automatically thinks that it's not her son's fault but the woman's (in this case she is right, but no doubt Bertha would have fired also a servant who carried her son's child). 

[Roseanna]

17 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

2.  Oscar.  This is an unpopular opinion but I think Oscar would be a good match for Gladys.  Hear me out!  Yes, he's gay and will continue to be involved with men but I think he would be kind to her and encourage her to find her own diversions.  There's no way that Gladys will be allowed to marry for love.  At least she can be with someone who would care about her as a friend and gain her her freedom from Bertha.

 

15 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

And Gladys being young and naive, would find nothing odd about her marriage and couldn’t even fathom her husband’s preferences. But I think they’d both be happy. Oscar would treat her well and Gladys would be out from under her mother’s thumb and have considerable freedom. I suspect Bertha, however, is going to go the Vanderbilt route with her. And Gladys will be miserable. The ONLY reason that scenario won’t play out is that it will take Gladys out of America.

 

12 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Is he, though? I don't think he quite is. Sure, he's a bit of a schemer but unlike his partner-in-crime, Miss Turner, he isn't intent on hurting anyone, just making a bad situation better for him (and his actual partner).

Granted, it would mean that Gladys would be married to someone who just wants her money... but that is likely to happen anyway. At least Oscar seems to like her as a person, even if he isn't attracted to her.

 

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

I'm of the same opinion.  Oscar said in an early episode that Gladys seemed nice, which was important, and that he thought they could be happy.  Not just that he would be happy, but they would. 

And given the era they're living in, if Gladys isn't going to be allowed to marry for love, she could do worse than be paired up with a man who isn't going to be interested in her sexually. 

 

6 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Gladys being cool with Oscar's homosexuality is way too 21th century thinking. Even if she would not recoil in horror once she managed to understand what was going on in her marriage she'd live in constant terror of the scandal. Even if they managed to have a good relationship chances  are that over time resentment would seep in (on both sides). And if they had children it would be worse  because a possible scandal would also wreck havoc on their lives.

I agree with MissLucas. 

Gladys will not be young for ever and eventually she will think that there is some fault in her marriage while not detecting a real reason (f.g. "why does Oscar come so seldom to my bed? am I not attractive enough?").

Oscar is not hurting her? By pretending to love her while he only wants her money he will hurt her more than a lord whom her mother has forced her to marry and whose mercenary intentions she had known from the beginning.

She can't marry for love anyway? This show is a soap opera created by Fellowes and he has all the power to do as he pleases: either to allow Gladys' first marriage to be a love match or at least arrange a divorce (as happened irl) or kill her first husband off (an option I believe Fellowes favors).

   

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

Would someone be able to explain to me what was lighting the chandeliers in the Russell and Van Rhijn homes before electricity... 

Gas

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Or maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit (but not Baranski, because she is the main reason why I'm watching this show and I do think she's the shining star here).

Then I hope she sees some action in the last two episodes- other than one very spirited march across the street she hasn't done much. If this is the extent of Aunt Agnes' storyline then I have to wonder what attracted Baranski to the project to begin with- surely not the opportunity to sit around in uncomfortable clothing all day.   

Quote

Agreed she is a very direct way of speaking.  I think it can be offputting but I don’t think it’s mean-spirited.  She really just was saying she didn’t have the space.

This is what I love about Bertha and people like Bertha- you know where you stand. No hidden motives or sneaky agenda- it's all right there up front for everyone to see. I may not share her aspirations but I sure do admire her unapologetic manner of living. And the way her face lit up when George tipped his hat- it's clear that she is smitten with her husband and that needs to be celebrated.

I only wonder if she will ever get real enough with herself to compare the feelings she has for George with whatever situation she ends up forcing Gladys into. You would think being in a marriage built on true love would help temper her ambition for Gladys, but her sheer focus on climbing the ladder has blinded her to the discrepancy.

I would like to see one small scene, maybe pillow talk, between George and Bertha where she admits to wishing Gladys all the happiness inside her marriage that Bertha found in hers. Where she admits, just a little, to her knowing that she is robbing Gladys of a love match and feels somewhat bad about that, but that her history and struggle to overcome her own beginnings has blinded her. She should admit that her ambition is a beast that keeps growing and can never be satiated and that sometimes, in the deepest darkest nights of her soul it concerns her.  Just a little. But somebody needs to show some self-awareness here and seeing Bertha do it would be the most rewarding, at least to me.

In short, I think that if we were shown a tiny bit of vulnerability in Bertha- a brief moment with only George- then we could understand better what motivates her. I mean we know- yeah, she's into climbing the social ladder, that's her thing. But I mean her deeper motivation- her childhood shame at being descended from Irish immigrants (or whatever backstory she has). There is a compelling story there that made her how she is, that created that need so strong that nothing will ever be enough. I need to know that story to understand her, but I also think we need to see her remember that story at some point- otherwise she's a caricature with no depth.

And all of these characters desperately need some depth- most of them are still very two dimensional, and seven eps in I would not expect that to be the case. Watching pretty people do annoying things gets old if you can't watch their wheels turn or see what's behind their curtain.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

Would someone be able to explain to me what was lighting the chandeliers in the Russell and Van Rhijn homes before electricity... 

Gas. And wiring often run through gas pipes. 

[Bliss]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Gas

People still use gas in remote locations where there's no electricity. e.g., I visited a cottage lately in which their lights, frig, stove and water pump were all gas powered. They've recently installed solar panels and now use a combination of both solar and gas! They stream movies, use their laptops, etc. Think "off the grid" situations - it is possible!

[rollacoaster]

16 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Two magical moments of that night…💥

 

14 hours ago, Kirsty said:

Yeah, that was a cute moment when George, on stage, lifted his hat to Bertha below in the carriage. She looked thrilled. Bertha is growing on me.

And the spectacle of the building lighting up with the awed crowd watching was probably the highlight of the show so far.

I really loved that moment with the building lighting. It must have seemed so magical at the time  The actors responded so well, and it was so beautifully shot. We take so much for granted now, it made me wonder what could be a similar moment for the now time. 

In that sweet scene between the Russell's at the event, Bertha was so uncharacteristically  animated that I had to roll it back twice to see who was that ecstatic young woman Mr. Russell tipped his hat to. 

[dmc]

13 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I was surprised that George didn’t reply to Turner that she and her “devotion” would bore him senseless.

Does anyone else think “Edgar Allan Poe” every time Oscar appears?

Turner is lying.  Believe me, if George left Bertha for her…she would be demanding sh*t on the regular.   She’s entitled now. 
 

Re Oscar:  I think Johnny Depp in From Hell mixed with Gene Wilder Willy Wonka that gum isn’t ready to try energy.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by dmc

[Sigmagirl]

These are the musicians who were playing at the lighting ceremony.

https://www.excelsiorcornetband.com/Excelsior_Cornet_band/Home.html

[pasdetrois]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:39 PM, CleoCaesar said:

As long as I'm bitching, why is the acting so flat?

I've seen Blake Ritson, who plays Oscar, in other productions. He usually gives us an extremely posh, plummy English accent. Here he struggles manfully to contain it as an American character. It makes me laugh.

As does a ladies maid sashaying in and out of the master's bedchamber while he lounges in his jammies.

Ugh, so disappointed in this show. So of course it will be renewed, with Marian, her garish clothes, Monty Python hats, and flat delivery.

Edited March 9, 2022 by pasdetrois

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

This show is a soap opera created by Fellowes and he has all the power to do as he pleases: either to allow Gladys' first marriage to be a love match or at least arrange a divorce (as happened irl) or kill her first husband off (an option I believe Fellowes favors).

I read that as Gladys would kill her first husband and I was like damn I didn't expect that kind of thing from this Fellowes person lol.

This was definitely my fave episode. I continue to be surprised by how much I enjoy this show. I'm sad there are only 2 eps left.

[MissLucas]

Since Bertha has not had any unfortunate accidents with soaps  I hope Fellowes' penchant for soap opera twists (I'll show myself out in a sec) has been kept under control - so far *fingers crossed*

[eleanorofaquitaine]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Oscar is not hurting her? By pretending to love her while he only wants her money he will hurt her more than a lord whom her mother has forced her to marry and whose mercenary intentions she had known from the beginning.

She can't marry for love anyway? This show is a soap opera created by Fellowes and he has all the power to do as he pleases: either to allow Gladys' first marriage to be a love match or at least arrange a divorce (as happened irl) or kill her first husband off (an option I believe Fellowes favors).

   

Did I miss a scene where Oscar declared his love for Gladys? Certainly Oscar is interested in Gladys' wealth but so far, I haven't seen him deceive her into thinking he loves her.

And I didn't say she "can't" marry for love but the plot has so far indicated that given her mothers machinations, she may not be allowed to. If she is going to be forced into a marriage for some reason other than love, why shouldn't it be with a guy who has at least said he likes her and thinks she's nice.

Anyway, my only point was that I don't think Oscar is a villain (yet). I hope that Gladys is allowed to marry some young handsome guy she loves but if she's going to be forced into a loveless marriage built on her father's fortune, she could do worse than the witty guy across the street who seems to like her as a person. 

[Melina22]

4 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

And all of these characters desperately need some depth- most of them are still very two dimensional, and seven eps in I would not expect that to be the case. Watching pretty people do annoying things gets old if you can't watch their wheels turn or see what's behind their curtain.

Couldn't agree more. People here keep commenting on how one-note the characters are and its true. It's like each person was assigned one main characteristic (ambitious, meek, conniving, feisty, etc.) and that's what you see whenever they're onscreen. This is mainly a writing issue, since most of these actors have shone in other roles. 

[buttersister]

Any chance they can recast Marian in season two? From flirting with Raikes to sitting with Aunties to hobnobbing with the  Mrs Russell and Chamberlain, Louise is a black hole. The only animation is when she’s talking with Peggy, and I think that’s on Denee Benton.

[KarenX]

1. A lot of people in society must be bored out of their minds. Mamie Fish amuses herself with bizarre themed parties. I think Aurora is delighted by Bertha. Bertha probably a lot of fun to sit next to and to talk about.

2. One can love electricity and hate light pollution. It’s not all or nothing. Just because the first people to deploy it widely failed to anticipate that problem doesn’t mean we have to give up attempts to solve it.

3. Turner. Maybe she is no longer employable in service but she is another character who could provide a view of a middle class woman supporting herself. Maybe Oscar will help her start up some service kind of business. Maybe she’ll find another family of society wannabes and work to take down Bertha that way.

4. I don’t see any evidence from the show to believe that Bertha will not allow Gladys to marry for love or like. None. Making your teenage daughter break up with your secret adult hotel boyfriend is not that. Telling your husband you have bigger plans for your daughter is not that. There are PLENTY of wealthy young men Bertha would approve of. She just has to find them. Gladys can pick the one she likes from a curated list. Parents have always done this. Parents do this now. Parents choose school districts and universities to put their kids in the way of The Right People. 
 

Until I see Bertha ruin Gladys’s life by forcing her into a marriage she doesn’t want for the purpose of gaining position I will not believe she is so cold.

Edited March 9, 2022 by KarenX

[poeticlicensed]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the idea that almost nothing will be resolved at the end of the series? Like Fellowes is trying to set us up for season 2. Is Mr Raikes an adventurer? Does Mr Russell go to prison. Does Russell junior get to be an architect? And will Gladys ever get her debutante ball?that's a lot for 2 more episodes. And why deep six Turner? Hopefully she will be back.

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I only wonder if she will ever get real enough with herself to compare the feelings she has for George with whatever situation she ends up forcing Gladys into. You would think being in a marriage built on true love would help temper her ambition for Gladys, but her sheer focus on climbing the ladder has blinded her to the discrepancy.

I would like to see one small scene, maybe pillow talk, between George and Bertha where she admits to wishing Gladys all the happiness inside her marriage that Bertha found in hers. Where she admits, just a little, to her knowing that she is robbing Gladys of a love match and feels somewhat bad about that, but that her history and struggle to overcome her own beginnings has blinded her. She should admit that her ambition is a beast that keeps growing and can never be satiated and that sometimes, in the deepest darkest nights of her soul it concerns her.  Just a little. But somebody needs to show some self-awareness here and seeing Bertha do it would be the most rewarding, at least to me.

In short, I think that if we were shown a tiny bit of vulnerability in Bertha- a brief moment with only George- then we could understand better what motivates her. I mean we know- yeah, she's into climbing the social ladder, that's her thing. But I mean her deeper motivation- her childhood shame at being descended from Irish immigrants (or whatever backstory she has). There is a compelling story there that made her how she is, that created that need so strong that nothing will ever be enough. I need to know that story to understand her, but I also think we need to see her remember that story at some point- otherwise she's a caricature with no depth.

I guess Bertha will feel remorse when she sees how unhappy Gladys is in her loveless marriage or when Gladys had caused a scandal (affair? divorce?) or after Gladys' death.

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I read that as Gladys would kill her first husband and I was like damn I didn't expect that kind of thing from this Fellowes person lol.

I meant that Fellowes kills Gladys' first husband (sickness? accident? suicide after bankrupt?). 

4 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Did I miss a scene where Oscar declared his love for Gladys?

I meant that because Oscar isn't good enough for Bertha, his only chance is to pretend that he loves her and make her elope with him.

2 hours ago, KarenX said:

4. I don’t see any evidence from the show to believe that Bertha will not allow Gladys to marry for love or like. None. Making your teenage daughter break up with your secret adult hotel boyfriend is not that. Telling your husband you have bigger plans for your daughter is not that. There are PLENTY of wealthy young men Bertha would approve of. She just has to find them. Gladys can pick the one she likes from a curated list. Parents have always done this. Parents do this now. Parents choose school districts and universities to put their kids in the way of The Right People. 
 

Until I see Bertha ruin Gladys’s life by forcing her into a marriage she doesn’t want for the purpose of gaining position I will not believe she is so cold.

I agree. So far we know for sure only that Bertha wants Gladys to make the best possible match, not that she will force her daughter a man she don't want, although that happened irl. We shall see. 

If the Old Money people had come when Bertha invited them, Gladys's would be "out" and could meet eligible young men.

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I guess Bertha will feel remorse when she sees how unhappy Gladys is in her loveless marriage or when Gladys had caused a scandal (affair? divorce?) or after Gladys' death.

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was expecting George to prove just as bad as Bertha in the Larry scene, telling his son he didn't get to choose what he wanted to do because his father had laid out his life plans for him. But it turned out he went the other way.

[Shermie]

14 hours ago, nb360 said:

Who do people think would have made a “good” Marian, if that role was re-cast…. A Jennifer Lawrence-type person? An Elie Kemper?

I’ve mentioned several times that I wish they had gotten Lily James for the role. She’s the perfect combination of wide-eyed innocence and charisma. Maybe they just have to replace Louisa with her sister, Mamie.

I do wonder why they cast Louisa in the first place. It’s not like they were hoping to draw in viewers based on the Streep connection; since she doesn’t use that name, some people wouldn’t know. She’s not a strong actress and while she is lovely and does have that soft-spoken innocence about her, she also needs to have some appeal. 

[sempervivum]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:07 AM, iMonrey said:

Marian has never been seen in the same outfit twice.

Actually, she's been shown in that draped gold and turquoise lace outfit 3 times. Ada has been shown in the teal dress with brown/gold fringy things over her boobs twice. Even Bertha has worn the dark pink with grey draped panniers twice.

What can I say? Costumes really bring the past alive for me.

Also, living in an 1872 14 room house makes me grateful for electricity basically every day. 🙂

[SailorGirl]

30 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Actually, she's been shown in that draped gold and turquoise lace outfit 3 times. Ada has been shown in the teal dress with brown/gold fringy things over her boobs twice. Even Bertha has worn the dark pink with grey draped panniers twice.

I noticed that and it made me wonder if those are the 1872 version of casual clothes you wear only around the house. I THINK Marian has only worn it at home with the aunts. Maybe once when she was out with Peggy?

[blackwing]

I feel like nothing happened in this episode.  None of the storylines were particularly advanced, other than Marian/Raikes getting to meet at Mrs. Chamberlain's house.  Gladys is still in a holding pattern, the investigation about the train crash hasn't advanced, etc.

I am not surprised that Bannister wasn't fired... but at the beginning of the episode wasn't he bragging about the money he got from Bertha to at least one other servant?  It was either the cook or the housekeeper and she said something like "what will you do with it".  I feel like we missed a scene where Agnes confronted Bannister and she asked him how Bertha enticed him to work over there and she learns he got $100 and decided to let him keep it.  It doesn't make sense to me that she wouldn't have found out he got paid.  At the very least, I feel like she would have made Bannister return the money, or donate it to charity.  If she hasn't learned about the payment, I would think the nasty housekeeper would have ratted him out and told Agnes.

Some of the accents on this show seem a bit off.  Why does Larry speak the way he does?  There is something odd about the way he speaks, it's like a mix between simpering and man-child.  Is it because the actor is Australian and is having trouble?  Jack's accent with the overexaggerated Noo Yawk accent is a bit much.

22 hours ago, Kirsty said:

Yeah, that was a cute moment when George, on stage, lifted his hat to Bertha below in the carriage. She looked thrilled. Bertha is growing on me.

And the spectacle of the building lighting up with the awed crowd watching was probably the highlight of the show so far.

I agree that the spectacle and the awe of the crowd was something to behold.  We take electricity for granted but back then this was something truly amazing.  It'd be like if one of us was thrust into the future 500 years from now.  We would probably be just as amazed at things like food printers which can instantly deliver prepared food.

I see many people here gushing over Bertha's thrill about George being on stage, but what about her utterly nasty display in their house not much earlier in the show?  She's all worried about McAllister and whatnot and he yells at her and talks about him possibly going to prison and that she only cares about her tea party.  He was completely right, and she storms out of the room.  I find the fact that she cared more about her social standing than her husband going to prison utterly disgusting.

On 3/8/2022 at 12:38 PM, JenE4 said:

I think I missed some key dialogue. How was this Mr Russell’s Edison event? Was that his building the first to have electricity, or did he fund it or something? The way Mrs Russell was going on about her carriage picnic, it all seemed very exclusive and that she came up with the idea. But there were hundreds of people their with their own carriage picnics, so what was stopping Marian from just showing up there in her own carriage to watch? Even Peggy seemed like she snagged some exclusive invite, but they seemed to be in the segregated section that also had a hundred people milling about—so it seemed like anyone could just show up. Doubtful the rest of the people in the crowd had some type of “press pass.” It was just outside. 🤷‍♀️

Agree with all of this.  Why was George on stage?  Did his company sponsor the event or sponsor Edison?  I thought his company built railroads.

On 3/8/2022 at 11:07 AM, iMonrey said:

Since Ritson is British I'm surprised the show didn't go with David Oakes, the go-to villain of all British TV shows. He actually would have been far more charming in this role too. My main quibble with Ritson is that he simply looks too old for the part.

I don't think David Oakes is that much younger.  I think they needed an actor who actually looks 30 to play the part of Oscar.  Then again, they have the actor who plays Larry looking like is 30 and he is playing a 22 year old.

15 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

Would someone be able to explain to me what was lighting the chandeliers in the Russell and Van Rhijn homes before electricity... 

I get that the chandeliers were lit by gas, but how come they don't have any of the flicker of a gas flame?  Also, in the beginning of the episode, one of the servants (I forget who) was complaining that electricity would put some of them out of jobs.  Presumably the guy that goes around lighting the gas flames.  Did these gas lights work the same way as depicted in Victorian movies like Sherlock Holmes, somebody walks around with a long pole with a curve at the top and an open flame, then turns the gas on the streetlight and lights the flame?

 

[KarenX]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I see many people here gushing over Bertha's thrill about George being on stage, but what about her utterly nasty display in their house not much earlier in the show?  She's all worried about McAllister and whatnot and he yells at her and talks about him possibly going to prison and that she only cares about her tea party.  He was completely right, and she storms out of the room.  I find the fact that she cared more about her social standing than her husband going to prison utterly disgusting.

They had a spat. She stormed out. It was childish but I think it is their dynamic. In their next scene she told him not to worry about the party and that he had her full support. I don’t think she cares more about her social standing than him going to prison. I don’t remember what episode but we saw this before. They took sides about some Russells in Society issue (maybe the Secret Hotel Boyfriend Breakup) but later we saw Bertha explicitly soothe her husband, re-commit her support to him, and embrace him.

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I get that the chandeliers were lit by gas, but how come they don't have any of the flicker of a gas flame?

I had an old butane camping lantern that had a “bulb” that was a silk bag wick thing. It didn’t flicker, and you could brighten and dim it with a knob.

Edited March 10, 2022 by KarenX
Corrected a homophone, added an adjective

[rollacoaster]

58 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I see many people here gushing over Bertha's thrill about George being on stage, but what about her utterly nasty display in their house not much earlier in the show?  She's all worried about McAllister and whatnot and he yells at her and talks about him possibly going to prison and that she only cares about her tea party.  He was completely right, and she storms out of the room.  I find the fact that she cared more about her social standing than her husband going to prison utterly disgusting.

I mean, Bertha being nasty/cold/hard/blunt/arrogant/beeyotchy/selfish/a social climber etc is not particularly out of character, and has been noted numerous times. I think for a lot of us, seeing her being animated and girlishly enthusiastic was a change of pace. She do love her some George. 

Also, this makes sense:

31 minutes ago, KarenX said:

They had a spat. She stormed out. It was childish but I think it is their dynamic. In their next seen she told him not to worry about the party and that he had her full support. I don’t think she cares more about her social standing than him going to prison. I don’t remember what episode but we saw this before. They took sides about some Russells in Society issue (maybe the Hotel Boyfriend Breakup) but later we saw Bertha explicitly soothe her husband, commit her support of him, and embrace him.

Sometimes, I do feel like, "Damn, Bertha, read the room, empathize with your husband's concerns! If he goes down, all your social machinations come to naught!"

But, I also do appreciate that she absolutely insists that her occupations have value and are equal to the work he does. What she is striving for does indeed support him and will open doors for their family. The so-called "soft" power of women makes a difference. 

Like someone else mentioned, I do wish the show would do better in showing us at least some of their more informal moments where they might make up or just be more human. Them going from storming out of rooms in one scene then just being normal in the next with no tension at all can be disconcerting. 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by rollacoaster

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I see many people here gushing over Bertha's thrill about George being on stage, but what about her utterly nasty display in their house not much earlier in the show?  She's all worried about McAllister and whatnot and he yells at her and talks about him possibly going to prison and that she only cares about her tea party.  He was completely right, and she storms out of the room.  I find the fact that she cared more about her social standing than her husband going to prison utterly disgusting.

 

8 hours ago, KarenX said:

They had a spat. She stormed out. It was childish but I think it is their dynamic. In their next scene she told him not to worry about the party and that he had her full support. I don’t think she cares more about her social standing than him going to prison. I don’t remember what episode but we saw this before. They took sides about some Russells in Society issue (maybe the Secret Hotel Boyfriend Breakup) but later we saw Bertha explicitly soothe her husband, re-commit her support to him, and embrace him.

You may be right, Karenx, by saying that it's their dynamic. They have been married over 20 years, so George knows Bertha and accepts as she is. For all her outward faults, she is open and honest. They quarrel but they don't hold grudges. In the end they support each other.

If that is so, Turner made a basic mistake by believing that George wanted a woman who would wholly devote to him. He would be bored by a woman always pampered him and, before all, know it was sham.

Bertha is gorgeous, but I think that he married her because he recognized that they are equal in strength.

 

[Pestilentia]

13 hours ago, KarenX said:

I see many people here gushing over Bertha's thrill about George being on stage, but what about her utterly nasty display in their house not much earlier in the show? 

I think George and Bertha are simply one of those very lucky couples who can have a spirited spat and not allow it to affect the relationship. I know I and hub can bicker then one says "Who wants ice cream?" and it's over just like that- no ill will, no grudges, no getting even, not even an increased pulse rate. It's simply a type relationship where any conflict is discussed and either dismissed or resolved fairly quickly then truly forgotten about, not stuck in a back pocket to 'use' against them later on. The love/loyalty/devotion simply out weighs all the mundane problems that inevitably occur when you live with someone.

[JasonCC]

"I still get enraged when I see the perfect concrete curbs and wide sidewalks with shrinkage joints carefully spaced according to 21st century standards.  At least they make LJ the second least believable thing in the show.  The third least believable "

You know I go back and forth on this--sometimes I'm "oh wow everything is so clean and new looking so unrealistic"......but wait this IS new then. Our modern sensibilities think old and worn and stonework = old! history! but for a lot of the old money these new neighborhoods and McMansions with their faux-French Empire look was Kardashian-esque newness. Like how I roll my eyes in a "posh" suburb with fake Roman statues. Brooklyn/Peggy scenes seemed realistic...but I think there is indeed supposed to be a new, shiny, semi-fake feel for the Russell home and area around it.

[Tango64]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:53 PM, Tango64 said:

A postilion goes nowhere near a horse??? Isn’t that exactly what a postilion does? Rides a horse alongside the horses of a carriage to guide them?

Quoting myself. This was still bugging me so much I had to go back and watch the scene again in an effort to understand. I still don't. 

The scene is at 20:30, right after Bertha says she has no room in her carriage. The butler is explaining to the footmen that they will be postilions when they leave the house and then when they get to Park Row they will step down and serve the dinner. A footman whines that he doesn't like horses.

Church replies with annoyance: "You're a postilion, not a jockey! You won't go anywhere near a horse."

Huh? Wikipedia's definition of postilion is "a person who guides a horse-drawn coach or post chaise while mounted on the horse or one of a pair of horses."

Did the writers just muff this? Was Church trying to be sarcastic? Am I missing some point Church was making? (Why do I care? Why can't I let this go? ...)

[Affogato]

20 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

Quoting myself. This was still bugging me so much I had to go back and watch the scene again in an effort to understand. I still don't. 

The scene is at 20:30, right after Bertha says she has no room in her carriage. The butler is explaining to the footmen that they will be postilions when they leave the house and then when they get to Park Row they will step down and serve the dinner. A footman whines that he doesn't like horses.

Church replies with annoyance: "You're a postilion, not a jockey! You won't go anywhere near a horse."

Huh? Wikipedia's definition of postilion is "a person who guides a horse-drawn coach or post chaise while mounted on the horse or one of a pair of horses."

Did the writers just muff this? Was Church trying to be sarcastic? Am I missing some point Church was making? (Why do I care? Why can't I let this go? ...)

 

20 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

Quoting myself. This was still bugging me so much I had to go back and watch the scene again in an effort to understand. I still don't. 

The scene is at 20:30, right after Bertha says she has no room in her carriage. The butler is explaining to the footmen that they will be postilions when they leave the house and then when they get to Park Row they will step down and serve the dinner. A footman whines that he doesn't like horses.

Church replies with annoyance: "You're a postilion, not a jockey! You won't go anywhere near a horse."

Huh? Wikipedia's definition of postilion is "a person who guides a horse-drawn coach or post chaise while mounted on the horse or one of a pair of horses."

Did the writers just muff this? Was Church trying to be sarcastic? Am I missing some point Church was making? (Why do I care? Why can't I let this go? ...)

Church is clearly not a really experienced Butler from a long line of butlers. He didn't know about teaspoons and probably he is confusing postillion with footman. Church may not have dealt with this situation beforehand, as he had not dealt with the luncheon details under pressure.

Does that help? I think Church's inexperience and possible resentment may be ongoing.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Affogato

[Affogato]

I suspect Gladys will butt heads with Bertha and eventually get forced into something neither of them would want for her. Gladys has some Bertha in her, though. She wants to be a control freak, too!

[Tango64]

5 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Church is clearly not a really experienced Butler from a long line of butlers. He didn't know about teaspoons and probably he is confusing postillion with footman. Church may not have dealt with this situation beforehand, as he had not dealt with the luncheon details under pressure.

Hmmmm, that would make a bit of sense that it was evidence Church is in over his head, not realizing a postilion does ride a horse. He did know that a postilion wears a different uniform though, because he mentions needing to get them from storage.

So, okay... perhaps Church was thinking a postilion is just a footman riding on the back of the carriage, as they do sometimes. When he said, "then you step down and serve dinner" maybe he meant you just step down from the rear of the carriage. 

Would have been fun to show the whiny footman riding the horse after all and hating it.

 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, JasonCC said:

"I still get enraged when I see the perfect concrete curbs and wide sidewalks with shrinkage joints carefully spaced according to 21st century standards.  At least they make LJ the second least believable thing in the show.  The third least believable "

You know I go back and forth on this--sometimes I'm "oh wow everything is so clean and new looking so unrealistic"......but wait this IS new then. Our modern sensibilities think old and worn and stonework = old! history! but for a lot of the old money these new neighborhoods and McMansions with their faux-French Empire look was Kardashian-esque newness. Like how I roll my eyes in a "posh" suburb with fake Roman statues. Brooklyn/Peggy scenes seemed realistic...but I think there is indeed supposed to be a new, shiny, semi-fake feel for the Russell home and area around it.

You'd think road apples would be plentiful. I guess the footment would clean up to some extent?

[sistermagpie]

53 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Church is clearly not a really experienced Butler from a long line of butlers. He didn't know about teaspoons and probably he is confusing postillion with footman. Church may not have dealt with this situation beforehand, as he had not dealt with the luncheon details under pressure.

 

Seems weird that he knows the word postillion though, if he's confusing it with a footman!

[Affogato]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Seems weird that he knows the word postillion though, if he's confusing it with a footman!

It probably is on the dry cleaning tag on the uniform, which was given to the footman who dislikes horses on the basis of size.

I assume that postillions are used in crowds or formal occasions where you would want very good behavior from your horses. It may just have been a part of the butler's manual he skimmed.

Alternatively the writers could have not known what the word meant. We are wanking here.

[NeenerNeener]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:31 PM, Shermie said:

Unless you don’t engage in any lighting after dark, that’s really a pointless criticism. I mean, you watched the episode, so I assume you used electricity.

Just because I use electricity doesn't mean I can't miss being able to see a sky full of stars at night, or can't mention the cause. 

[Shermie]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Turner made a basic mistake by believing that George wanted a woman who would wholly devote to him. He would be bored by a woman always pampered him

And I have doubts that someone as thirsty as Turner would be content being someone’s beck-and-call girl. I don’t like the character, but I admire her chutzpah for going after what she wants. Someone that ambitious isn’t going to be happy sitting around waiting for her man to come home.