S01.E06: Heads Have Rolled for Less

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Love seeing Peggy's continued success. Is she supposed to be based on someone? Did I miss something or do we know why she needed a lawyer?

Does Oscar live in the Van Rijn house?

As TV Tropes puts it, "Peggy is based on several real women from the second half of the 19th century including journalist Ida B. Wells, Julia C. Collins who is believed to be the first black American woman to write a published novel, and Susan McKinney Steward who was the first black woman physician in New York State."

We don't yet know why she needs a lawyer.

Oscar has his own house, but visits frequently.

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

My money's on Church for sending the snitching letter to Agnes.

Must have been. He was the staff member most upset about it, and he said he had to go do something just before the letter was sent.

The multiquote button isn't responding.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, mojito said:

There was a scene in the first episode, I believe, when Marian, Gladys, and Larry are together and Larry proposes a toast. He stated something about how they should be friends. He used a French phrase that I believe meant something like, "comrades in battle/war".

He said contra mundum, Latin for "against the world".

[mojito]

12 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He said contra mundum, Latin for "against the world".

Yes, that's it. It was easy to translate, but I could only remember the gist of it. 

[Empress Josephine]

I don't mind Marian but she is just sorta there/bland. I guess I am neutral on her as a protagonist. I don't want her to be with Larry though. I think he could do better. Or maybe I just feel they would be so predictable and boring. I don't see any chemistry. 

I like that Larry is trying in the ways that he can to intercede on behalf of his sister. I hope to see more of their brother and sister relationship. I also like that Miss Astor is also looking out for her. I think with more people in her corner, Gladys will continue to be assertive and stand her ground with her mother.

Very happy to see Peggy get success with her article. I think Mr. Fortune is very handsome so I hope he gets more scenes.

I am tried of Mrs. Armstrong and I was happy when Agnes called her out for trying to make trouble. 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Empress Josephine

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, CapeCodLuv said:

Gladys is so plain, her bangs and hair make me cringe. Hats of to Taissa for portraying such an unfortunate young girl so well. It amazes me her mother thinks she's such a prize beyond money, she is not beautiful

A bit harsh. Gladys isn't gorgeous but she's certainly pretty.

[blackwing]

1 minute ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

A bit harsh. Gladys isn't gorgeous but she's certainly pretty.

I would agree she isn’t ugly.  But if they put her next to Marian, she couldn’t compete with Marian.  Marian is beautiful and dresses very well.  Gladys’ family has lots of money and can afford the best, but I do find her overall look to be not so good.  Perhaps they are doing it on purpose to demonstrate that she is only 17.  But the way they do her hair and the clothes they put her in, she always reminds me of Little Bo Peep.

[Bulldog]

17 minutes ago, blackwing said:

she always reminds me of Little Bo Peep.

Thank you!  I've been trying to put my finger on it, but couldn't come up with the right wording.  You hit the nail on the head.  No wonder every time I see Gladys I wonder why she's not carrying a shepherd's staff.  

[yellowjacket]

It seems to me that this is almost a cartoon, what with the faux outdoor set with concrete sidewalks and curbs (didn't exist yet), some use of CGI, monotonic accents and postures, and dumb plots.  These characters are only interesting when we google/wiki them.

Also all I could think about when Dame Audra was playing the piano was that maybe next we would hear her sing?

Adding:  I'm not against Bertha.  If she had a job running a multinational corporation or an army, she'd act no different.  Entrance into society, and then conquering, is the only interesting opportunity presented to her.

 

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

7 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Thank you!  I've been trying to put my finger on it, but couldn't come up with the right wording.  You hit the nail on the head.  No wonder every time I see Gladys I wonder why she's not carrying a shepherd's staff.  

I could've sworn I've seen her carrying a shepherd's staff.

[photo7521]

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Neither is HBO. HBO gets all of its money from people subscribing to HBO. HBO is not supported by advertisers the way network or cable (USA, FX, AMC) is. That's why I thought HBO was the first to give creators full control and not give them notes. 

Now I am not sure if HBO gave creative control to all its series creators, but Tom Fontana had control over the casting and writing of his show Oz, which premiered in July 1997. Netflix the network was not created until August 1997, and both Netflix and HBO are subscriber-based formats, just HBO is 40+ years old.

[izabella]

I can't wait to see Glady's makeover for her coming out ball.  And I'm glad Miss Astor is so interested in it.  It will be more fun to plan for it with a friend.

[Fake Jan Brady]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:07 PM, Straycat80 said:

Was a doll tea party really a thing back then because it was creepy! 

 

On 3/1/2022 at 2:26 PM, eejm said:

WTF was up with the creepy dolls’ tea party?  Was the real Mamie Fish as much of a weirdo as fictional Mamie Fish?

 

On 3/1/2022 at 3:04 PM, Shermie said:

That doll tea party was just weird, was that a thing? So strange. It’s not like the “kids” that were invited were 6 years old. 

Apparently so - at least we were spared the baby talk.

12 hours ago, Tango64 said:

Nathan Lane is a fine actor, but as a Southerner I am so tired of this exaggerated Foghorn Leghorn trope that is supposed to make the man from down south appear delightfully eccentric and charming. Lane takes that tired portrayal to a new level. Not in a good way.

He seems to be doing an impersonation of Beverley Leslie Leslie Jordan, who would have been hilarious in the role.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Fake Jan Brady

[Atlanta]

It is a bit cringe about what is attractive of the time when it comes to both men and women (I know we tend to get absorbed into the feminist aspect, but women can be shallow too). In this era, it seems all about money rather than chemistry or connection. It's sad that these couples can't truly have dated without hovering chaperones. I'm not suggesting anything untoward, but they can't get to know each other. 

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I think a lot of the criticism about the characters being obsessed with things like place settings and flowers and gloves, etc are because we are watching the show with 2022 eyes.  In that era, those things were a Very. Big. Deal., especially among the upper crust. 

We place similar importance on things today that are ultimately very silly.  I've seen people throw fits over receiving an email in ALL CAPS.   

Yes, I totally agree, there was a huge expectation for everything to be "appropriate" even down to the most minute detail in a place setting.  It was very important to the "upper crust" to act in ways they thought were befitting to their station in life and everything they had and did had to conform to certain recognized standards reflecting that.  Anything else would be seen as "low class".  Also, I have seen comments to the effect that everything the Russells do is way over the top and overblown.  That's not just Fellowes going overboard trying to wow the audience.  It was because as "Nouveau riche" they are trying overly hard to impress everyone with their wealth, status and cultural sophistication, which to "old money" like Agnes likely comes off as gauche, boastful and even tacky.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Yeah No

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Aurora is really working hard to make it up to the Russells. She facilitated the whole luncheon, saved Bertha from the embarrassment of not knowing what Tsarskoye Selo is a

Catherine Palace in Tsarskoye Selo isn't associated with Catherine the Great but Peter the Great's long-time mistress and second wife Catherine who after his death ruled as Empress Catherine I. Catherine the Great is rather associated with Winter Palace and Hermitage. 

As Catherine I rose from the humble origins to the very top and there was rumors that she first was a mistress of Peter's friend, it's possible that McAllister snubbed Bertha. Mrs Fane either hadn't knowledge of history, or she simply wanted save Bertha from unfavorable comparison.

10 hours ago, KarenX said:

Maybe skyscrapers!

Doesn't skycrapers look all the same? Do even Americans know architects who planned them?

An ambitious architect wants rather build extraordinary houses (f.ex. opera house) so that his name is remembered.

[Roseanna]

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Bertha seems to understand the need to cry in public, though. 

Well, only by half. With his husband she came to the accident place and let herself be photographed, but in she couldn't stand to see the wounded in the hospital. 

Generally,  "crying in public" shouldn't take literally, it means rather showing empathy. While a public person can show that she is moved, she must be that too much: if she is wholly concentrated in her own feelings, she unable to comfort victims or their relatives.    

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

And while it was a cruel line I was mesmerized by Carrie Coon's delivery of 'Please just don't be soft' - she sounded pleading, almost vulnerable. Which was an interesting choice. I really want to know more about Bertha's past, there's got to be some major hurt that made her that hard. I'm looking for an explanation not an excuse. And George knows about it and that's why he puts up with her fierce ambition.

I have also thought that there must be some serious hurt that causes Bertha's ambition. 

When she in the hospital was unable to see the wounded, was it a hint about her own family's past? 

[RachelKM]

12 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Doesn't skycrapers look all the same? Do even Americans know architects who planned them?

Not at all. The early skyscrapers 1890s-1940s are some of the most unique and famous buildings in major American cities, particularly in Chicago and New York.  And Many were quite ornate both inside and out. Some of the early examples are:

Marquette Building - 1895

The original Astoria Hotel - 1897

Flatiron Building - 1902

Singer Building - 1897 - 1908

Woolworth Building - 1913

Larry Russell would be the correct age take part the early part of that. I don't know if people are aware of the architects. But the buildings are pretty famous.   

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, CapeCodLuv said:

I love reading all your insights. I am enjoying the show but do not consider it a favorite, it doesn't come close to my love for DA. I am grateful to have a diversion and love the costumes and scenery no matter how inaccurate. I am not invested in the stories of the downstairs cast, I do not think they are well written and not enough time is spent to make me care. I love Agnes, Ada, Peggy and the Russell's. Marion is bland, and the actress playing her has not improved. Someone earlier suggested she comes across as a high school teen in the school play, spot on! The writing doesn't help but Louisa is just not up to the job in my opinion. Gladys is so plain, her bangs and hair make me cringe. Hats of to Taissa for portraying such an unfortunate young girl so well. It amazes me her mother thinks she's such a prize beyond money, she is not beautiful and hasn't been allowed to display her wit or talents. I guess we are supposed to see Bertha is only looking to make a monetary match, she doesn't care if Gladys is happy. Gladys looks like one of the dolls at the odd party.

 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I would agree she isn’t ugly.  But if they put her next to Marian, she couldn’t compete with Marian.  Marian is beautiful and dresses very well.  Gladys’ family has lots of money and can afford the best, but I do find her overall look to be not so good.  Perhaps they are doing it on purpose to demonstrate that she is only 17.  But the way they do her hair and the clothes they put her in, she always reminds me of Little Bo Peep.

Maybe Fellowes' storyline for Gladys is "a clumsy teenager becomes a beauty in her coming-out-party". 

As for Marian, she is pretty, dresses well and is nice to people (except secretly towards Agnes) but nothing more. Peggy has more: a character and a drive. 

[Roseanna]

12 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Not at all. The early skyscrapers 1890s-1940s are some of the most unique and famous buildings in major American cities, particularly in Chicago and New York.  And Many were quite ornate both inside and out. Some of the early examples are:

Marquette Building - 1895

The original Astoria Hotel - 1897

Flatiron Building - 1902

Singer Building - 1897 - 1908

Woolworth Building - 1913

Larry Russell would be the correct age take part the early part of that. I don't know if people are aware of the architects. But the buildings are pretty famous.   

Thank you for info!

[dmc]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Neither is HBO. HBO gets all of its money from people subscribing to HBO. HBO is not supported by advertisers the way network or cable (USA, FX, AMC) is. That's why I thought HBO was the first to give creators full control and not give them notes. 

Yes I was comparing Netflix to the television model not HBO specifically.  But still no, HBO was not the first network to not give notes despite their lack of advertiser money.  And to my knowledge, notes are still given there.  
 

 

 

[Haleth]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Maybe Fellowes' storyline for Gladys is "a clumsy teenager becomes a beauty in her coming-out-party". 

Gladys is this series' Edith Crawley.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

I for one find Bertha utterly unlikeable.  I don't see any redeeming qualities in her at all. 

 

I think Bertha has a lot of admirable qualities.  

In a day when college age kids are incapable of walking into my office and having a simple conversation with eye contact because "anxiety" (and having learned how to 'communicate' via texts) I find Bertha's behavior to have a lot of redeeming qualities. Do you understand the sheer fortitude it would have taken to walk into a room full of women gossiping about your husband being a murderer? She has balls.  She holds her head up and perseveres regardless. 

She is brusque and she is selfish but she is determined. She has a goal and she is going after it and nothing or no one will stand in her way. If she was a man establishing a fledgling business we'd be all supportive and admiring of her qualities- that ability to shrug off even the most damaging criticisms and carry on regardless of what was thrown at her. It certainly reminds me of a lot of today's high profile businessmen- they are impervious to any and all obstacles. I do find that a redeeming quality, yes.  

Not that I'm saying I like her or that she is admirable, but I do see a lot of good qualities in her.  The bad currently outnumber the good but I do think they are there. 

Quote

So I feel like casting her as the kindhearted, sort of simple, and almost a bit ditzy Ada works well for her. 

I don't think our dear ditzy Ada is simple at all.  

She presents a ditzy persona but I think underneath that is a capable woman who has simply never gotten any sort of opportunity to explore her talents and interests. She reads, she knows about 'foreign' religions, she seems to stay abreast of current news and happenings quite closely. She's a wimpy younger sister who's been kept in a somewhat subservient role to Agnes who is older and has the stronger personality. She's been cared for and steered and controlled her entire life. But I think Ada just may be a surprise to us down the line and may be on the cusp of a rebellion of sorts herself.  She's nearly as ready as Marian/Gladys/Peggy to eschew the old and enjoy the new.  

Quote

Yikes for Gladys accusing her dad of not being able to stand up to his wife.  

I think Gladys struck a nerve with that one and George will soon be revisiting his decision to leave all things Gladys to Bertha. I think Gladys may be a late bloomer in regard to discovering her power- she is Bertha's daughter after all.  She did not grow up with those parents and not notice how to get things done, she's just slow to understand how to apply it to her own life. When she does, look out. 

I think her Little Bo Peep look is intentionally designed to make her look like a child. I think that when she does  eventually walk down that stairway at her debutante ball we will be shocked at the transition. I think that once she comes out she will find her way far more successfully than Bertha and I think there will be conflict between the two of them because of it.    

I'm about done discussing Marian because the character is so poorly portrayed. At one point she was trying to be flirty with Raikes and the ridiculous simpering look on her face took me right out of it. She is equating acting to making faces- there is nothing of "Marian"  behind those eyes. I love Mamie Gummer and think she is very talented but IMO this one needs to go back into the Streep Incubation Unit to hone some acting skills because at this point I have seen evidence of very few. How she managed to snag this job is beyond me- she's meant to be our protagonist and yet is the weakest actor in the cast- it just makes no sense.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Pestilentia
words

[MissLucas]

17 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

I don't think our dear ditzy Ada is simple at all.  

She presents a ditzy persona but I think underneath that is a capable woman who has simply never gotten any sort of opportunity to explore her talents and interests. She reads, she knows about 'foreign' religions, she seems to stay abreast of current news and happenings quite closely. She's a wimpy younger sister who's been kept in a somewhat subservient role to Agnes who is older and has the stronger personality. She's been cared for and steered and controlled her entire life. But I think Ada just may be a surprise to us down the line and may be on the cusp of a rebellion of sorts herself.  She's nearly as ready as Marian/Gladys/Peggy to eschew the old and enjoy the new.  

Agreed! And I would really like to know what she did in the missing years. She has not stayed with Agnes for all her life as I had assumed. I can't recall the exact episode but IIRC she told Marian that she came to live with Agnes after Mr VR's  death. 

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Doesn't skycrapers look all the same? Do even Americans know architects who planned them?

Especially in NYC architects were and still are often very well known.  I'm thinking of the architects that designed the two World Trade Centers.  Those weren't all the same as any other skyscraper any more than any other skyscraper resembles another.

My husband is a history buff of NY architecture so I have been very aware of some of these buildings since forever and have had a relationship with some all of my life.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Yeah No

[MissLucas]

50 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

My husband is a history buff of NY architecture so I have been very aware of some of these buildings since forever and have had a relationship with some all of my life.

Is your husband's name Ted? 😁

I'm intrigued by Larry's interest for architecture. Thanks @RachelKM for the great list. Some great plot-mining potential here.

[yellowjacket]

53 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Is your husband's name Ted? 😁

I'm intrigued by Larry's interest for architecture. Thanks @RachelKM for the great list. Some great plot-mining potential here.

Really good place to read about old NYC building architecture and structural engineering:

https://oldstructures.nyc/blog/

 

[SailorGirl]

13 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Its weird saying this because all these people are terrible robber barrons. But Mrs. Morris gets on my last nerve.

Hypocrites do have that effect, don't they? 

Her shock that one's place in their society is all about money was laughable!  That there's situations that the "olds" can't control through name and money any more and that, horror of horrors, they have to face the consequences of their actions (some things really never change). 

Had the tables turned and the "old" husbands beaten George, they would have been gloating about how they ruined him financially and the "potato digger's daughter" and her family were "back where they belong." 

The mirror is being held up to her and she cannot accept what she sees. So she chooses to claim Bertha has painted the mirror to reflect a different image. 

Welcome to reality Mrs. Morris -- its all about money, these bishes are NOT your friends, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether those dollars are "new" or "old" -- so long as they're there. And spent. 

[RachelKM]

14 minutes ago, yellowjacket said:

Really good place to read about old NYC building architecture and structural engineering:

https://oldstructures.nyc/blog/

 

Thanks!  Who knew there were so many architectural history nerds on this site?  Though, considering this show is basically period design porn, I shouldn't be surprised. 

When you all run through NYC and Chicago classics, check out San Francisco buildings too. There are some truly beautiful, unique and, occasionally, strange buildings in SF

I went to law school in SF and my school housing was in McAllister Tower.  I didn't live in it. But a number of our services, like our gym, were in it. The sky room was a trip.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

I also don't understand why Agnes is all aghast that Oscar may possibly be dating Miss Turner, a lady's maid. 

She's beneath his station in life, for one thing. For a man of his position, Oscar should be dating/marrying someone in his own social class. Dating/marrying a servant would be considered a scandal. See: Sybil Crawley and the chauffeur. 

Moreover, Turner is Mrs. Russell's maid. That makes it doubly insulting to Agnes, as Oscar knows exactly how she feels about the "new money" people, the Russells in particular. It's a betrayal. 

Quote

I automatically assumed it was Turner that turned Barrister into Agnes.

That may well be but it leaves wholly unexplained Church's reference to "doing something" about it. If Turner was the tattler, what exactly did Church do?

Edited March 2, 2022 by iMonrey

[MollyB]

15 hours ago, Toodleoo said:

It’s a silly nitpick on my part, but upon rewatch just now I noticed that all the men stood for Agnes.

I stand corrected again. (no pun intended) Thank you.  I think I was so outraged at Agnes being downsized and embarrassed that I missed a few things.  CB is one of my favorite actresses and I hate seeing her character made to look silly/stupid, especially when all we have seen about her would make her actions out of character.

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

That may well be but it leaves wholly unexplained Church's reference to "doing something" about it. If Turner was the tattler, what exactly did Church do?

Yes, I thought the implication was that Church was behind the letter.  He looked incensed at Bannister for "usurping" his authority with the staff and the next thing he did was utter that phrase and run off scene.  Right then I assumed he went across the street to tattle on Bannister.  Then we learned about the letter so of course I assumed he wrote it.

[Roseanna]

23 hours ago, blackwing said:

I also don't understand why Agnes is all aghast that Oscar may possibly be dating Miss Turner, a lady's maid.  He's 35 years old and has presumably never shown any interest in a woman.  There are perfectly good explanations why he was talking with Turner.  I'm sure he will explain to Agnes that he is using Turner to get in with the Russells so he can court Gladys.  If Agnes thinks the thought of Oscar with either Turner or Gladys is appalling, wait until she finds out that he is gay.

I find it perfectly understandable that Agnes was shocked. It would be "normal" that Oscar would have a kept mistress or have occasional dalliances with f.ex. shop girls, but about these Agnes either wouldn't have known or pretended not to know. Relationships with servants were another matter. Of course also they happened, but I doubt Agnes wouldn't have let them in her house: both for moral reasons and because they were mixed classes. 

There were no good reasons for Turner to touch Oscar (as it seemed). If somebody had seen it and reported to Bertha, she would get a good reason to look down to Agnes. 

To Agnes, Oscar and Gladys' marriage would be a catastrophe as she would be forced to meet his mother, so he can't tell the truth to Agnes who, I doubt strongly, wouldn't approve of spying and thereby misleading a young innocent girl.

20 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, I thought it was pretty surprising when she told Mrs. Chamberlain of all people that she was thinking of "breaking the rules" in reference to what Mrs. C did when, as Mrs. C explained, that was a huge thing that she only did because she knew for sure the love was enough to sustain it.

And yes, Marian did say that she wanted to get to know Raikes just for that reason, but it's still backwards. I doubt Mrs. Chamberlain considered doing what she did before getting to know her future husband.

Yes, it's odd. The situations of Mrs Chamberlain and Marian aren't similar at all. Mrs C had to decide whether she will become a mistress of a married man. She had even more to stake than her reputation: she had no guarantee that he wouldn't abandon her and her eventual child. She could know that love was worth all only afterwards.

Instead, Raikes is single and Marian can marry him if she likes (I assume that she is of age). Unlike she insists, she doesn't even need her aunts' approval. Even if Agnes' disapproval meant that she would be outside the society, the couple wouldn't afford the same life style, as she said to him in the hotel. 

So it's not at all "breaking rules" to Marian but rather if she loves him enough or even if she doesn't, does she hope to find a better catch in time. When Agnes dies, Marian don't inherit anything.

[tennisgurl]

Say what you will about Bertha, she sure does know how to make an entrance. Busting in just as everyone is talking about her with a cutting one liner and fabulous outfit, Bertha might not be the nicest person but I do respect her hustle. She needs to be more understanding of this crash mess though. No amount of English butlers and fancy parties will save them if a scandal takes George's business down. 

That doll party was creepy, it was like a horror movie was about to start, especially with a lack of actual kids. At least it meant Gladys got to make a new friend, who is none other than Carrie Astor! Bertha looked like she was just barley holding in a happy dance when she realized that her daughters new bestie is an Astor, Gladys might finally get that party yet.

I would totally watch a whole show just about the Scott's and exploring black high society of the time. Or a show about Clara Barton, who I love more every time we see her. She's classy, kind, and has zero time for society bullshit, especially when they're petty squabbles are standing in the way of her getting much needed resources for people in need. I love how she not too subtlety guilt tripped the society ladies into letting Bertha join the club, but with a gentle hand. 

Agnes running off across the street, practically stopping traffic in a blind rage, was pretty great, but I both felt embarrassed for her and a bit bad for how much this is upsetting for her. For as much as Agnes considers herself one of the defenders of polite society, running into her neighbors dinner party to yell at her staff was so cringy, that's rude no matter what time period you happen to be in. It was so awkward that Marian (of all people!) had to bail her out. And while her snobbish refusal to accept new people into the rich people club is annoying, some of it comes from a real fear of becoming irrelevant. She can finally see the writing on the wall, that the new money is here to stay, and its scary to know that her world is changing, possibly into a place that wont have a place for her.

Its still hilarious listening to the old money still whining about that trashy gaudy new opera house. Yeah, that place certainly wont end up becoming one of the largest and most famous opera houses in the world or anything,

[sistermagpie]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

She's beneath his station in life, for one thing. For a man of his position, Oscar should be dating/marrying someone in his own social class. Dating/marrying a servant would be considered a scandal. See: Sybil Crawley and the chauffeur. 

 

I doubt she thinks he's dating her to marry her. Probably just thinks if he's going to get some on the side with a servant he shouldn't be choosing one of the Russell's and why would he be with her in public?

[dmc]

Reading everyone's comments.  The discussion here is better than the show.

[BabyBella94]

I can't wait to see Gladys when she is actually "out" and Bertha trying to find her husband in the old money crowd. 

[MissLucas]

For those of us wondering if Doll Tea Parties were a thing:

https://portablenycblog.com/2020/05/09/mamie-fish-the-fun-maker-of-the-gilded-age/

Courtesy of the Fug Girls

[dmc]

1 hour ago, BabyBella94 said:

I can't wait to see Gladys when she is actually "out" and Bertha trying to find her husband in the old money crowd. 

I hope she finds some good not Oscar

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, Empress Josephine said:

 I like that Larry is trying in the ways that he can to intercede on behalf of his sister. I hope to see more of their brother and sister relationship.

Me too. Larry is trying to help his sister in ways that will not get him trouble with thier parents or soceity. I would love to see more of the sibling relationship and what it's like. It would be great to see a longer scene of just the two of them and what the interaction between them is like when thier parents are not around. 

14 hours ago, yellowjacket said:

Also all I could think about when Dame Audra was playing the piano was that maybe next we would hear her sing?

Maybe next time? She is incredibly talented so we can only hope. 

13 hours ago, photo7521 said:

Netflix the network was not created until August 1997, and both Netflix and HBO are subscriber-based formats, just HBO is 40+ years old.

I agree that Netflix and HBO are both subscriber based formats. It's also facinating that neither started with original series programming. Netflix as a company was created in 1997, but for the first decade they were sending DVDs to people by mail. Netflix did not start original programming until around 2010. HBO starts in the early 1980s showing films that had recently left movie theatres, stand-up specials, boxing, but did not create original scripted series programming until the late 1990s. 

6 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Agreed! And I would really like to know what she did in the missing years. She has not stayed with Agnes for all her life as I had assumed. I can't recall the exact episode but IIRC she told Marian that she came to live with Agnes after Mr VR's  death. 

Same here. I would love to know what she was doing and where she was living while Agnes was married and before Agnes became a widow. Maybe they will in the gaps over the course of the series. It may explain why Ada knows so much about the world. 

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

To Agnes, Oscar and Gladys' marriage would be a catastrophe as she would be forced to meet his mother, so he can't tell the truth to Agnes who, I doubt strongly, wouldn't approve of spying and thereby misleading a young innocent girl.

She might be okay with Oscar seeing Gladys as long as it didn't go to far and he didn't mislead her. He could be a valuable source of information.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I would totally watch a whole show just about the Scott's and exploring black high society of the time. 

Multiple people on this board have suggested it and I think it's a great idea. Get on this HBO! The series needs to be multiple series and epic. I want to see Mr. Scott being freed in the first episode (a behind the scenes feature mentioned he was freed, he did not run away) and then multiple seasons covers his life including marriage, family, and his community/neighborhood. 

[dmc]

14 hours ago, photo7521 said:

Now I am not sure if HBO gave creative control to all its series creators, but Tom Fontana had control over the casting and writing of his show Oz, which premiered in July 1997. Netflix the network was not created until August 1997, and both Netflix and HBO are subscriber-based formats, just HBO is 40+ years old.

As stated in earlier comment, I think Julian has it here.  I think a lot of the choices made are reflective of him and not HBO.  

As I also stated in this case, I think he could have used the network notes. I think some of casting here is weak.  

I am not saying there aren't the showrunners or shows that have more autonomy within their network structure.  Its just consistent and not across the board at HBO.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by dmc

[buckboard]

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I went to law school in SF and my school housing was in McAllister Tower.  I didn't live in it. But a number of our services, like our gym, were in it. The sky room was a trip.  

The McAllister Tower is located on McAllister Street, which was named for members of that family - his brother and father - but not including Ward, who left San Francisco before achieving his fame (or notoriety, depending on one's viewpoint).  

[RachelKM]

46 minutes ago, buckboard said:

The McAllister Tower is located on McAllister Street, which was named for members of that family - his brother and father - but not including Ward, who left San Francisco before achieving his fame (or notoriety, depending on one's viewpoint).  

Holy Shit, I'm dumb.  I was loosely aware of the McAllister family and the relationship to SF and yet did not make the connection when I brought up the Tower. 

[cardigirl]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:54 PM, dmc said:

I think I am ready to admit I don't like this show.  It's not awful but it's not particularly good either.  I am not attached to the characters or what happens to them. However, it can be fun to watch a show where you don't care what happens to anyone.

 

I am  deliciously looking forward to the following:

Mr. Raikes show his true colors which I know are coming, every week they postpone...I feel slightly more glee and anticipation for what's to come.

Raikes- It had two closely related meanings, referring firstly to a rough path in hilly landscape and secondly to a pasture ground used by sheep and cattle.

So he's a social climber

 

 

I think you may be giving the writers more credit than they deserve.  😆

[Emmybean]

Re Agnes and McAllister:  Agnes has a position in society. She won’t be cut. But she can be forgotten, overlooked. And she can’t afford that, because there’s the risk that Marian will be forgotten. Agnes needs Marian to make a good marriage, but it’s not just to satisfy her snobbery. I suspect that Agnes has only a life-interest in the van Rhijn property, and at her death everything goes to Oscar, who won’t give a rap about Ada. But Marian does, and a good marriage by Marian means Ada will have a home fitting her status. At least that’s my interpretation. I’d hate to lose Christine Baranski, but Agnes’s death would really shake up the status quo.

 

I think the season will end with Gladys’s coming out and George’s arrest.

[Atlanta]

Why wouldn't she leave something to Ada?

[Bliss]

1 hour ago, Emmybean said:

 

I think the season will end with Gladys’s coming out and George’s arrest.

My tv guide said this episode was the season finale.

[Mindthinkr]

8 minutes ago, Bliss said:

My tv guide said this episode was the season finale.

IMDB had the same information, but they alluded there was already a season 2. 

[RachelKM]

23 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Why wouldn't she leave something to Ada?

It's been mentioned several times that Agnes's property will pass to Oscar and it was at least implied that she has no discretion as to how that property passes. Agnes has said that she cannot leave anything to Marian and it didn't sound as though it was a "can't" as in "morally obligated to leave it to Oscar" but rather "it's not in my power to do so." As @Emmybean said, it seems that Agnes has a life estate in her home and probably some regular widow's allowance for personal spending and the upkeep of the house and staff. A life estate, as the name implies, is an interest in property, generally the right to occupy/use, that last the duration of the remainder of your life. In such cases, the actual ownership of the property passes to someone or some entity else without the right to possess or use it until the end of the life estate. The person with the life estate doesn't own the property outright, and full ownership rights revert to the in ownership inheritor upon the death of the person with the life estate.

If that's the case, Agnes would have no more power to leave significant money or property to Ada than she does to Marian. 

[caitmcg]

23 minutes ago, Bliss said:

My tv guide said this episode was the season finale.

I have YouTubeTV, and the Gilded Age page shows episodes 7 and 8 upcoming on March 7 and March 14.

14 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

IMDB had the same information, but they alluded there was already a season 2. 

HBO renewed it.

[Bliss]

7 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

I have YouTubeTV, and the Gilded Age page shows episodes 7 and 8 upcoming on March 7 and March 14.

HBO renewed it.

Yay :-)