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S01.E05: Charity Has Two Functions


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3 minutes ago, Popples said:

Damn, George was so cold to young Archie. That was a hell of a choice he gave him.

I thought it was some kind of test.  If he turned down the offer, it would show he really loved Gladys and George would give his blessing.  But, I guess that wasn't what George had in mind.  

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Also, it's a weird thing for me to say, I know, but could somebody please be racist! It is absurd that so many people are, like, "Oh, hey, a Black person in 1882. Sounds good to me!" Only Morris, now that she's on the outs, get to say anything truly mean. It's weird. 

Edited by Brian Cronin
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4 minutes ago, eejm said:

That would be a twist.

We wouldn’t be able to call her boring anymore

3 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Also, it's a weird thing for me to say, I know, but could somebody please be racist! It is absurd that so many people are, like, "Oh, hey, a Black person in 1882. Sounds good to me!"

Someone was racist that woman whose name I can’t remember who asked if Agnes was OK hiring a colored woman.  Then oh well good for her. 
 

Also Peggy’s mother also discussed what kind of life she would have if she continue to live with Agnes which is also a racism call out. 

Edited by dmc
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6 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Also, it's a weird thing for me to say, I know, but could somebody please be racist! It is absurd that so many people are, like, "Oh, hey, a Black person in 1882. Sounds good to me!"

Some characters have been less than welcoming of Peggy - Bridget the maid, Anne Morris, Armstrong (although I think she’s just unpleasant after dealing with her mother), some of the people at the white-owned paper, and the staff at Bloomingdale’s.  The characters here may be more enlightened than people of the era, but Peggy hasn’t exactly had an easy time.

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6 minutes ago, dmc said:

Someone was racist that woman whose name I can’t remember who asked if Agnes was OK hiring a colored woman.  Then oh well good for her. 

I think that was Aurora Fane. But also, Anne Morris was a little "racisty." She refused to walk with Peggy and I think she scoffed when Peggy started asking questions to Clara Barton.

Edited by AntFTW
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1 minute ago, eejm said:

Some characters have been less than welcoming of Peggy - Bridget the maid, Anne Morris, Armstrong (although I think she’s just unpleasant after dealing with her mother), some of the people at the white-owned paper, and the staff at Bloomingdale’s.  The characters here may be more enlightened than people of the time, but Peggy hasn’t exactly had an easy time.

Oh, sure, there's been some hesitancy (like the Bloomingdales employees), but it's still bizarre just HOW accepting society has been to Peggy showing up at places. A quick surprise and then, "Oh, okay." 

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13 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

I thought it was some kind of test.  If he turned down the offer, it would show he really loved Gladys and George would give his blessing.  But, I guess that wasn't what George had in mind.  

I thought the same. I kept feeling I must be confused when it didn't turn out.

9 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Also, it's a weird thing for me to say, I know, but could somebody please be racist! It is absurd that so many people are, like, "Oh, hey, a Black person in 1882. Sounds good to me!"

 

8 minutes ago, dmc said:

We wouldn’t be able to call her boring anymore

Someone was racist that woman whose name I can’t remember who asked if Agnes was OK hiring a colored woman.  Then oh well good for her. 

Yes, it's kind of silly. Of course Mrs. Morris is racist because we don't have to like her already. And then there was a servant woman. Faceless white people who expect Peggy and her father to step aside. But any white person who's going to be the least bit respectable is never going to sound like they come from a society where segregation is normal and slavery (and the draft riots) are a recent memory.

Edited by sistermagpie
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Just now, AntFTW said:

I think that was Aurora Fane. But also, Anne Morris was a little "racisty." She refused to walk with Peggy and I think she scoffed when Peggy started asking questions to the Clara Barton.

Anne yes.  And she also made a dig at the Irish with her potato nonsense 

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6 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Also, it's a weird thing for me to say, I know, but could somebody please be racist! It is absurd that so many people are, like, "Oh, hey, a Black person in 1882. Sounds good to me!" Only Morris, now that she's on the outs, get to say anything truly mean. It's weird. 

The Van Rhijn housekeeper with the awful mother still doesn't like Peggy.

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1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, it's kind of silly. Of course Mrs. Morris is racist because we don't have to like him. And then there was a servant woman. Faceless white people who expect Peggy and her father to step aside. But any white person who's going to be the least bit respectable is never going to sound like they come from a society where segregation is normal and slavery (and the draft riots) are a recent memory.

Yeah, that's my issue in a nutshell. Anyone who we're supposed to possibly root for is somehow super cool with Black people in 1882. I mean, come the heck on. 

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1 minute ago, Popples said:

The Van Rhijn housekeeper with the awful mother still doesn't like Peggy.

She’s been a jerk to her since day one.  

1 minute ago, Brian Cronin said:

Yeah, that's my issue in a nutshell. Anyone who we're supposed to possibly root for is somehow super cool with Black people in 1882. I mean, come the heck on. 

Aren’t only two people cool with her though? 

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Maybe someone with more knowledge of the era than I have can help me out, but did they not have insurance back then?  Would a train crash really bankrupt the Russells?  I would assume that derailments weren't that uncommon during this time period.  Or, would the bad publicity make people not want to take Russell's trains causing them financial harm.  (My apologies for being too lazy to look up the insurance question myself.) 

Bertha seems to finally making some headway into society.  I would think she could benefit from showing Ann Morris at least a modicum of sympathy, or at least empathy.  I do think Aurora Fain is actually beginning to like Bertha, at least somewhat. 

I might be in the minority, but I don't mind Raikes.  I had resisted the popular theory that he was some type of con man, but his move in kissing Marion in the hall of the hotel (inn? boarding house?) seemed awfully bold for the time.  And his admission that he was hoping for "more" would seem to be very scandalous given the social mores.  I now suspect his motives are not entirely pure.

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4 minutes ago, dmc said:

She’s been a jerk to her since day one.  

Armstrong has been an ass to Peggy the whole time.  After this episode I’m not sure if it’s personal, though.  It doesn’t make her behavior OK, but I do understand why she’s so unpleasant.

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So is Raikes looking for Peggy's stockboy boyfriend from the pharmacy? Maybe they wanted to get married but her father chased him off/scared him off/paid him off? That's could explain why Peggy is so upset with her father -- and she did say Raikes has ways of finding what she's looking for that Marian doesn't. 

I love that everyone is is just piling on to Mrs. Morris about her holier-than-thou indignations -- either Marian's cousin or the other society wife (the one introducing Bertha to MacAllister -- still can't remember everybody's name) basically just told her, GTF over it -- the husbands played a game and yours lost, you know how this goes, so STFU and be grateful you're still around at all.

Mrs. Morris being so offended at every turn is comedy gold. I mean, yeah, sucks for her, but Bertha and George didn't make her husband pull the trigger -- how dare his being rich, male, entitled, and white not be enough to get a pass on committing insider trading and fraud! Its not 2022 for heaven's sake! 

And Clara Barton is just saying fuck all y'all bishes . . . I've got priorities that actually matter and I DGAF who writes me a check so long as I get the checks to actually help people and not just swan around. Paging Mrs. Chamberlain . . . 😄

Edited by SailorGirl
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Just now, dmc said:

Anne yes.  And she also made a dig at the Irish with her potato nonsense 

Yes. she also took a jab with her potato comment. I thought she needed to go stand in the back. She couldn't contribute anything other than moral support. She can't contribute money, and she can't spread the word with a newspaper article.

1 minute ago, Bulldog said:

Maybe someone with more knowledge of the era than I have can help me out, but did they not have insurance back then?  Would a train crash really bankrupt the Russells?  I would assume that derailments weren't that uncommon during this time period.  Or, would the bad publicity make people not want to take Russell's trains causing them financial harm.  (My apologies for being too lazy to look up the insurance question myself.)

I'm not sure if there were policies against train accidents but I don't see why wouldn't there have been. Train accidents were common but I imagine not so common that making insurance policies on them wouldn't be profitable. I imagine that would have been a very lucrative business for insurance companies.

4 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Bertha seems to finally making some headway into society.  I would think she could benefit from showing Ann Morris at least a modicum of sympathy, or at least empathy.  I do think Aurora Fain is actually beginning to like Bertha, at least somewhat. 

Well, at least Aurora Fane kept her house and her money.

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I'm really surprised that Marian is ignoring all the red flags that Raikes is giving off.  Not only did he invite himself to the women's trip, he mostly did it to get some from Marian.  How does she not understand that this guy is most likely social climbing, especially after his remark about them still going to the parties of high society after getting married.

I'm glad that the shoe issue was brought up, and wasn't dropped.  I'm surprised that Peggy's mom confided in Marian.  I would have done the bare minimum of courtesies and left. 

At the speech, I'm surprised no one tried to get more privacy when they tried to talk shit about others in their party.  I'm glad Bertha just walked up and confronted Mrs. Morris.

I felt bad for Gladys.  Bertha and George are terrible to put her guy in that position.

Edited by peridot
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Quote

 

Also, it's a weird thing for me to say, I know, but could somebody please be racist! It is absurd that so many people are, like, "Oh, hey, a Black person in 1882. Sounds good to me!" Only Morris, now that she's on the outs, get to say anything truly mean. It's weird. 

They aren't making a big deal of race because the behemoth that is Bridgerton is coming back soon.  Someone at HBO knows that the magic of Bridgerton is having a diverse cast and not having to constantly watch some asshole be a racist. It is refreshing that it's left out  especially since the people the racism isn't directed at usually defend the racist in the comments as well as the show.

I would've let that old hag lay around in her own mess for a few days to teach her to be nicer when I stopped by. You don't get to be a bitch when your survival depends on my compassion. I don't care if we're related or not.  Your mother being a bully doesn't excuse your being unpleasant.

 

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1 hour ago, Brian Cronin said:

Yeah, that's my issue in a nutshell. Anyone who we're supposed to possibly root for is somehow super cool with Black people in 1882. I mean, come the heck on. 

I know people in my family in NYC were pretty progressive about that stuff in the late 19th century having come from Yankee abolitionist roots, but I'm not sure I buy that the people in this show that supposedly are OK with it would have been, especially Agnes, but it's being portrayed with her as a kind of an out-of-character quirk.

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I’m assuming Peggy’s secret is a kid she’s been hiding in some little town. She might need her own salary to pay expenses. She maybe loved the stock boy but not his future and domestic drama like that. Plenty there to anger a father, especially if she refused to marry or raise a baby.

Agnes, Bertha, and Peggy’s mother were all dressed in purple in their opening scenes. Three queens.

The adult Russells were super harsh to the Bolton Boy but wow. He did kind of fail a character test, and not by picking a career over love. He was luring the Gladys to hotels for secret congress. And OK, he’ll be wealthy but also far away. I wonder if there is some historical easter egg of this guy dying of yellow fever, too.

🇵🇦 🟨 🤒💰

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Is it too obvious to guess that when Bertha Russell says she isn't looking for *Just* a New Yorker with lots of money and a big house, but something better -- that she's aiming for an impecunious, feckless English duke or earl?  This seems the period they were shipping their girls over to England for just that purpose.  I'll be surprised if she has anything else in mind, but could be wrong

Maybe it's just me (probably) but when the Downstairs people go out and have their four-minute drama outside the main houses, in this case the unfortunate lady with the horrible mother, I entirely have no idea which house they're from and why it matters.  

And for my final random thought, a viewer above mentioned how the Russell maid who tried to seduce Mr. Russell really had no motivation for her attitude or general unpleasantness.  I was reminded of Downton Abbey, though, where the actor who played Thomas Barrow, the constantly disgruntled footman &c was asked what was the reason for his character's really bad attitude, and he said he had no idea -- and that he'd asked Julian Fellowes and got no answer. 

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5 hours ago, dmc said:

I felt for Anne Morris because she lost her husband but it isn't Bertha or George's fault.  She better remarry stat. 

It's natural that a grieving widow is unable to accept that her husband made an error of judgment and realizing that he has lost his fortune, was so afraid of social shame that left his family to face consequences without him.

As for remarrying - she can't do it at least during the year of mourning (in some countries there was also a law against until the paternity of the possible child was made clear). And a middle-aged widow without a fortune isn't a catch. She should be glad that her friends aren't abandoned her. 

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6 hours ago, dmc said:

Every instinct I have tells me Mr. Raikes absolutely cannot be trusted and I still absolutely believe he's some sort of confidence man.  Marion is so set on breaking rules she isn't relying on common sense.  

 

5 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

Marian is made of nothing but bad ideas. Allowing Raikes to suck her lips off in a hotel? Is she an idiot? And stop bringing up those shoes.

 

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

IKR? Maybe because the alternative is we're just supposed to lean on the cliche plot and forget there's no reason for him to like her that much.

 

5 hours ago, dmc said:

I sincerely hope he’s not a legitimate love interest because if so something went awry.

 

4 hours ago, Popples said:

I can't believe Raikes thought Marian would let him in her room, he's trying so hard to get her into a compromising situation. There is the theory that the railroad stocks of Marian's late father weren't completely worthless after all, and I'm warming to it.

 

4 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I might be in the minority, but I don't mind Raikes.  I had resisted the popular theory that he was some type of con man, but his move in kissing Marion in the hall of the hotel (inn? boarding house?) seemed awfully bold for the time.  And his admission that he was hoping for "more" would seem to be very scandalous given the social mores.  I now suspect his motives are not entirely pure.

 

4 hours ago, peridot said:

I'm really surprised that Marian is ignoring all the red flags that Raikes is giving off.  Not only did he invite himself to the women's trip, he mostly  did it to get some from Marian.  How does she not understand that this guy is most likely social climbing, especially after his remark about them still going to the parties of high society after getting married.

 

3 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Dull-eyed Marian almost got Pamuked in the hallway! I feel like Aunt Agnes may want to take a page out of Bertha's book and put a governess on Marian's ass since she's too dumb to live. Also, there is NO WAY that Aurora or Bertha wouldn't have side-eyed Raikes just showing up. The IMPROPRIETRY (faints on couch). Marian would never have been allowed to have Raikes walk her to her door let alone get tongued. Come on...

- - 

A little advice to Ada and Agnes, start pimping Marian out to every eligible bachelor in the city (The Bachelorette: Manhattan Island). Get that slice of crustless Wonder Bread with mayo out into society so she has less time to say dumb shiz, and hang with shady Raikes. 

I think that people here forget that, despite all rules of the age, it's natural that a man wants a woman and vice versa.

Raikes didn't come to Marian's room uninvited nor put pressure on her, unlike Pamuk. Marian had a full possibility to say no.  Also, Pamuk wanted only a one-night stand with Mary, Raikes has already made his intentions clear by proposing to Marian and so far there is no hint that he wouldn't keep his word.

Peggy made a good question to Marian, instead of making a sermon about "propriety".

Agnes would like Marian to marry for money and position which (she believes) would guarantee her security - is that really moral?

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6 hours ago, eejm said:

Damn, George and Bertha really are a united front.  I really wanted to like Mrs. Bruce (the Russells’ housekeeper), but now she’s a spy.  Gladys is just a tool for Bertha’s ambitions.  She deserves better.

 

5 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I appreciate George wants his wife to be happy and will basically do anything she wants but perhaps he should reconsider that stance when what she wants is harming their kids. That was not a nice thing to do to Gladys and at some point, Bertha (and by extension, George) may want to consider that Gladys exists in her own right and is not just a tool of her (Bertha's) ambition. For all that Bertha thinks she's looking out for Gladys, in reality she's setting her up for an unhappy life and an unhappy relationship (ironically, quite different from Bertha's own marriage).

 

5 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Poor Gladys, I feel in time she’s going to rebel and it might be a disaster. 

 

5 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I think Bertha genuinely thinks she's also doing it for Gladys. I feel like what Bertha is doing was normal of people in high society., not justifying whether its right or wrong.

Agnes is doing the same to Marian. Although, Agnes is also doing it for social reasons, but not her own social end but for Marian's.

Fuck the both of them but I like when things are blown up so... I'm not against it 👀

 

5 hours ago, Popples said:

Damn, George was so cold to young Archie. That was a hell of a choice he gave him. It appears George will always defer to Bertha when it comes to the domestic side of his life. This was the most Larry Russell has had to do since the first episode, all he usually does is just eat a meal. He needs to get back in the game and be the third side to the triangle because Raikes is bad news.

Foghorn_Leghorn.png

 

5 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I thought it was some kind of test.  If he turned down the offer, it would show he really loved Gladys and George would give his blessing.  But, I guess that wasn't what George had in mind.  

 

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought the same. I kept feeling I must be confused when it didn't turn out.

 

2 hours ago, KarenX said:

The adult Russells were super harsh to the Bolton Boy but wow. He did kind of fail a character test, and not by picking a career over love. He was luring the Gladys to hotels for secret congress. And OK, he’ll be wealthy but also far away. I wonder if there is some historical easter egg of this guy dying of yellow fever, too.

🇵🇦 🟨 🤒💰

Yes, it could be a character test. But one can't really blame the young man: as he probably saw it, if he declined Mr Russell's offer, he would lose both a career and Gladys. Only a naive man would have believed that, if Gladys agreed to elope with him, they would be happy as (relatively) poor.  And only a man with an adventurer's character would have dared to bet that Mr Russell was only bluffing.    

As for Gladys, she is a far too young to marry, especially with the first man who showed interest in her. And it was suspicious that he met her in secret (in fact, far more suspicious than Raikes because of Gladys is younger than Marian and not even "out"). BTV, she seems only care for herself: although her governess was just fired, she asked help from a maid to get out alone.

And yes, it seems likely that Gladys will rebel, maybe with catastrophic results. Mrs Russell has forgotten that her aim to marry her daughter well would have succeeded better if she had, first, made Gladys feel loved at home and, second, taught her about the society. Now Gladys is an easy prey for fortune hunters, indeed any seducers.  

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Continueing:

It's noteworthy that this was the first time we actually saw Archie. We were clearly denied a chance to root for him which may have happened if his meetings with Gladys would have shown.

Of course Gladys' secret romance would also be too much similar with the courting of Marian and Raikes.

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4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know people in my family in NYC were pretty progressive about that stuff in the late 19th century having come from Yankee abolitionist roots, but I'm not sure I buy that the people in this show that supposedly are OK with it would have been, especially Agnes, but it's being portrayed with her as a kind of an out-of-character quirk.

I don't get the feeling that it's a quirk with Agnes.  She proudly said in the first episode that her father was involved with the Institute for Colored Youth that Peggy attended.  

In regards to everyone's the blase attitude towards Peggy, I was putting it down to the fact that she is a servant/employee in the Van Rhijn house. If she was written as an equal staying with friends, I gather the other characters' reactions would be very different.

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2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

 

 

 

I think that people here forget that, despite all rules of the age, it's natural that a man wants a woman and vice versa.

Raikes didn't come to Marian's room uninvited nor put pressure on her, unlike Pamuk. Marian had a full possibility to say no.  Also, Pamuk wanted only a one-night stand with Mary, Raikes has already made his intentions clear by proposing to Marian and so far there is no hint that he wouldn't keep his word.

Peggy made a good question to Marian, instead of making a sermon about "propriety".

Agnes would like Marian to marry for money and position which (she believes) would guarantee her security - is that really moral?

You think people forgot that men want women and vice verse LOL

Ummm I don't think anyone forgot about that

I don't trust him, like him, or think that Marion is exhibiting good judgment.  

I also think Pamuk was a rapist who conspired with a servant to come into Mary's room despite her telling him to go.  Its always a sign of consent when you have to ask a third party for access to a stranger's room and they tell you to go and you press on..

Mr. Raikes is a stalker.  He is legit this woman's lawyer who was left with nothing and whose father just died.  She legit left town and was yeah not interested bye.  He then moved states despite her disinterest and tried for the hard sale.  Marion in her naivety is buying it, I am not.  

How does she not know he's a creep...shudder

lolol-lol.gif

Edited by dmc
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6 hours ago, peridot said:

I'm really surprised that Marian is ignoring all the red flags that Raikes is giving off.  Not only did he invite himself to the women's trip, he mostly  did it to get some from Marian.  How does she not understand that this guy is most likely social climbing, especially after his remark about them still going to the parties of high society after getting married.

I'm glad that the shoe issue was brought up, and wasn't dropped.  I'm surprised that Peggy's mom confided in Marian.  I would have done the bare minimum of courtesies and left. 

At the speech, I'm surprised no one tried to get more privacy when they tried to talk shit about others in their party.  I'm glad Bertha just walked up and confronted Mrs. Morris.

I felt bad for Gladys.  Bertha and George are terrible to put her guy in that position.

He invites himself EVERYWHERE

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51 minutes ago, dmc said:

Mr. Raikes is a stalker.  He is legit this woman's lawyer who was left with nothing and whose father just died.  She legit left town and was yeah not interested bye.  He then moved states despite her disinterest and tried for the hard sale.  Marion in her naivety is buying it, I am not.  

Since day one he has always exhibited a sort of "false bonhomie"- he's always chattering and yet has never said one thing about himself. Past the initial meeting where he broke the bad news he has said nothing but things Marian would like to hear- not one word like "As my Mother used to say..." or "Yes, when I was a child we..." or  any sort of story or anecdote concerning his past or even his life for that matter.

How did he manage to leave his practice in Doylestown and move to the big city without having even one story to tell about it?  One normally mentions little anecdotes when conversing and he never has. He's just too focused on being where Marian is and saying things Marian would like to hear to the exclusion of all else. He appears where she is and he is forever declaring his utter enchantment with the bag of 'meh' that is Marian. WHY is he so taken with her?

It's not normal. He's after something. He's hinky somehow- I'd just bet on it.

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2 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

I don't get the feeling that it's a quirk with Agnes.  She proudly said in the first episode that her father was involved with the Institute for Colored Youth that Peggy attended.  

But that was her father, not her.  I think it's out of character and incongruent for a woman who is being written as so concerned with appearances and so restrictive about who can belong to high society to take what could be an unpopular stand about such things.  After all, how would it look?  She doesn't seem at all concerned about that.  Most people have unexpected aspects to them, I'm just having to stretch to buy that one with her.  That's on the writers for writing her that way, but I'm willing to suspend some disbelief.  People can often seem contrary to themselves.

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34 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

Since day one he has always exhibited a sort of "false bonhomie"- he's always chattering and yet has never said one thing about himself. Past the initial meeting where he broke the bad news he has said nothing but things Marian would like to hear- not one word like "As my Mother used to say..." or "Yes, when I was a child we..." or  any sort of story or anecdote concerning his past or even his life for that matter.

How did he manage to leave his practice in Doylestown and move to the big city without having even one story to tell about it?  One normally mentions little anecdotes when conversing and he never has. He's just too focused on being where Marian is and saying things Marian would like to hear to the exclusion of all else. He appears where she is and he is forever declaring his utter enchantment with the bag of 'meh' that is Marian. WHY is he so taken with her?

It's not normal. He's after something. He's hinky somehow- I'd just bet on it.

AGREED

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1 hour ago, dmc said:

You think people forgot that men want women and vice verse LOL

Ummm I don't think anyone forgot about that

I don't trust him, like him, or think that Marion is exhibiting good judgment.  

I also think Pamuk was a rapist who conspired with a servant to come into Mary's room despite her telling him to go.  Its always a sign of consent when you have to ask a third party for access to a stranger's room and they tell you to go and you press on..

Mr. Raikes is a stalker.  He is legit this woman's lawyer who was left with nothing and whose father just died.  She legit left town and was yeah not interested bye.  He then moved states despite her disinterest and tried for the hard sale.  Marion in her naivety is buying it, I am not.  

How does she not know he's a creep...shudder

I watch a lot of very old movies and a lot of romantic plots involve men doing things to and with women that today are seen as creepy and stalkerish but it would be written as a sign of "true love" and they'd get married in the end.  I hope that's not what they're going for here for a lot of reasons but I'd see it as a better alternative to Raikes really being a stalker.

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6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I watch a lot of very old movies and a lot of romantic plots involve men doing things to and with women that today are seen as creepy and stalkerish but it would be written as a sign of "true love" and they'd get married in the end.  I hope that's not what they're going for here for a lot of reasons but I'd see it as a better alternative to Raikes really being a stalker.

Sadly this still happens in recent movies 

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9 hours ago, dmc said:

and velvet ribbon tied around her neck.  I keep thinking somebody’s going to pull it off and her head will roll off

From your keyboard to Julian Fellowes’ ears.  Marion is the worst part of this show.  I don’t know how old Marion is supposed to be, or how old the actor is, but I’m guessing Marion is 20-23??  Any older and wouldn’t she be considered an old maid? But the actress looks 30-something IMO.  

Even if Mr. McAlester was from the South, and as much as I love Nathan Lane, this isn’t the right role for him.  It came across as a character actor doing a caricature portrayal. 

I think I am officially hate watching now.  Aside from the architecture and some of the clothes (NOT Marion’s endless yellow, blue or yellow and blue frocks), there aren’t very many storylines keeping me intrigued.  Another poster said everyone’s delivery is flat…agree 100%.  

 

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9 hours ago, Bulldog said:

What accent was Nathan Lane going for?  For some reason, I expected him to start hawking fried chicken any moment. 

IKR? I had to look up the real Ward McAlister, who was born in Savannah, GA. I guess Savannah's accents have changed in 140 years? Because I know a blue blood from Savannah, and neither she nor her parents talk like that.

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10 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I appreciate George wants his wife to be happy and will basically do anything she wants but perhaps he should reconsider that stance when what she wants is harming their kids. That was not a nice thing to do to Gladys and at some point, Bertha (and by extension, George) may want to consider that Gladys exists in her own right and is not just a tool of her (Bertha's) ambition. For all that Bertha thinks she's looking out for Gladys, in reality she's setting her up for an unhappy life and an unhappy relationship (ironically, quite different from Bertha's own marriage).

Every time George tries to push back on Bertha about Gladys, even a little, she shuts him down and tells him to leave Gladys to her.  We also learned Bertha was this ambitious when they first got married, so she's always been this way about moving up in society, and he's always deferred to her even though he doesn't feel the same way about it.  I fear George won't be doing anything against Bertha's ambitions for their daughter no matter what happens.

Poor Gladys.  She was so happy when the housekeeper asked her if she would like the young maid as a ladies' maid.  "This is the first time anyone has asked me what I think about anything having to do with me!" or something like that.   #FreeGladys!

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On 2/22/2022 at 8:51 AM, BusyOctober said:

From your keyboard to Julian Fellowes’ ears.  Marion is the worst part of this show.  I don’t know how old Marion is supposed to be, or how old the actor is, but I’m guessing Marion is 20-23??  Any older and wouldn’t she be considered an old maid? But the actress looks 30-something IMO.  

Even if Mr. McAlester was from the South, and as much as I love Nathan Lane, this isn’t the right role for him.  It came across as a character actor doing a caricature portrayal. 

I think I am officially hate watching now.  Aside from the architecture and some of the clothes (NOT Marion’s endless yellow, blue or yellow and blue frocks), there aren’t very many storylines keeping me intrigued.  Another poster said everyone’s delivery is flat…agree 100%.  

 

Same but I wouldn’t mind a Clara Barton spin off where she fundraises and solves Gilded era crimes. 
 

Someone needs to create a meme that’s says be as committed to blank as Marion is to making yellow happen.

 

Edited by dmc
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1 hour ago, Pestilentia said:

Since day one he has always exhibited a sort of "false bonhomie"- he's always chattering and yet has never said one thing about himself. Past the initial meeting where he broke the bad news he has said nothing but things Marian would like to hear- not one word like "As my Mother used to say..." or "Yes, when I was a child we..." or  any sort of story or anecdote concerning his past or even his life for that matter.

In Jane Austen's time, speaking about oneself was a sign that one didn't know good manners which showed that one was lowly born.

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2 hours ago, dmc said:

You think people forgot that men want women and vice verse LOL

lolol-lol.gif

What I mean is that what's so wrong for a man to show openly that he desires a woman he has proposed to?

Wouldn't rather the very opposite raise suspicious that he wants to marry her solely for money or as a cover of his relationship with his lover? 

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For a virginal young woman raised in the Victorian era, Marian sure responded vigorously to that French kissing in the hallway.  I still don't trust Raikes.

Bertha is holding Gladys back from marriage until it affords her the ability to introduce "my son-in-law, Lord _______________."

Anyone else think Miss Armstrong returned back to the Russell's kitchen after killing her mother?  Not that anyone could blame her.

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17 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

What I mean is that what's so wrong for a man to show openly that he desires a woman he has proposed to?

Wouldn't rather the very opposite raise suspicious that he wants to marry her solely for money or as a cover of his relationship with his lover? 

Considering they aren’t formally engaged and it’s the Gilded era, everything. 

Raikes knows the rules and don’t kid yourself, if there’s an issue Marion will be the one shamed not him. 
 

so he knows all that and is okay risking her reputation

 

if it were now, nothing. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

What I mean is that what's so wrong for a man to show openly that he desires a woman he has proposed to?

Wouldn't rather the very opposite raise suspicious that he wants to marry her solely for money or as a cover of his relationship with his lover? 

I think the way he is doing it, for those times, is far too aggressive.  He is "taking liberties" with her virtue by kissing her in a hotel hallway for anyone to see, and for suggesting he go into her room.  That is not the way a gentleman courts a young woman, and his putting her in that position is a sign of disrespect.  Raikes is no gentleman, though, as both Ada and Agnes would surely remind Marian.  Ada would be just as appalled as Agnes, if she knew.

I noticed Ada buffering for Marian when Agnes started going off on Mrs. Chamberlain being on Mrs. Fain's guest list.  The moment she mentioned Mrs. Chamberlain's name, Ada quickly jumped in and cut the conversation short so Marian could leave the room before things became more awkward.

20 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Anyone else think Miss Armstrong returned back to the Russell's kitchen after killing her mother?  Not that anyone could blame her.

LOL!  Fellowes does like murder plots, so this could very well happen soon.

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Quote

In Jane Austen's time, speaking about oneself was a sign that one didn't know good manners which showed that one was lowly born.

Wasn't Jane Austen long dead by this point?

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With regard to how the issue of race is being treated, I think that there are a few things to remember - one, Peggy isn't actually being accepted into the ballrooms of this society.  Peggy herself is well aware that she needs to choose her battles, which is why I think she didn't go to dinner with Clara Barton and her crew. Agnes employs her and Marian sees her as a friend (as clumsy as Marian was in the last episode), but it's not like either is trying to champion her to Mrs. Astor or what have you. So we are still seeing racism in action, it's just more subtle than overt. 

Second, the Civil War is very much within all of their memories. And there is no doubt that people in this society understand that the enslavement of Black people was the major factor in the war. So whether or not any of them were abolitionists (I'm going to guess probably not), they were likely more sympathetic to efforts to help formerly enslaved individuals. Peggy herself was probably born free (or has no memory of slavery, if she was born into it, but my guess is that her parents were already free by the time she was born). This was an era where you saw the establishment of normal schools that eventually became the first HBCUs, so I don't really see it unlikely that Agnes is fine with Peggy in the role of employee. If Peggy were pushing for me - like an invite to a society party - I think Agnes would be aghast. 

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I felt like Nathan Lane was basically doing Leslie Jordan drag.

Also, sorry Peggy but the passage Marian read aloud from your Clara Barton article ... not great. You walked away from The Christian Advocate, you don't have to end the piece with a Bible quote! (Mostly kidding - I know a lot of journalism from that era would sound ham-fisted to our ears.)

 

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10 hours ago, Adgirl said:

They aren't making a big deal of race because the behemoth that is Bridgerton is coming back soon.  Someone at HBO knows that the magic of Bridgerton is having a diverse cast and not having to constantly watch some asshole be a racist. It is refreshing that it's left out  especially since the people the racism isn't directed at usually defend the racist in the comments as well as the show.

I would've let that old hag lay around in her own mess for a few days to teach her to be nicer when I stopped by. You don't get to be a bitch and an invalid--with me anyway--I don't care if we're related or not.  Your mother being a harpy doesn't make your own nastiness okay. 

 

I know there's always a needle to thread here. There's been 19th century shows for years (Little House on the Prarie, Dr. Quinn etc.) that are right to not have people be as racist as they probably would be because nobody needs to watch that or see "good" people being like that. But I think that's why it bugs me that it seems like Fellowes, being himself, uses racism to prop up his own ideas of which people are good--and that often seems connected to their position in society as well.

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, it could be a character test. But one can't really blame the young man: as he probably saw it, if he declined Mr Russell's offer, he would lose both a career and Gladys. Only a naive man would have believed that, if Gladys agreed to elope with him, they would be happy as (relatively) poor.  And only a man with an adventurer's character would have dared to bet that Mr Russell was only bluffing.    

 I don't think it ultimately was a character test, though. Because if the guy passed it, he'd be punished.

 

57 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Wasn't Jane Austen long dead by this point?

Also it seems like the characters Austen wrote about were known by everyone before they walked into a room. There's a difference between not going on and on about yourself and nobody knowing exactly how this person came to be standing in their drawing room.

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When Bertha greets McAllister a slight edge of a southern drawl enters her voice. Ah. I believe this is the first time we've seen her show her real worth to George (although there likely were subtle clues I missed).  "You and I are alike" she is saying and it is almost subliminal. She is a good foil for George's direct, almost blunt manner, and they must make a devastating couple, even without money. I think they are terrible, terrible people, and are leaving a trail of devastation in their wake. But we like their relationship with each other and their excellent, supportive marriage!

they are really pushing Gladys. Will she discover her inner George or Bertha? Oh, I hope so.

I wonder if Mr Morris killed himself to leave his family, or at least his wife, with some assets. If he stayed alive she would have ended up on the streets?  

I still think Marion is very much like Ada, other than the family resemblance and Marion being more likely to fit into the household, I wonder if this will come to anything. I think the friendship with Peggy may push Marion to do other things, perhaps she will become a reformer. 

Peggy's family, by the standards of the day, is a distance from the center of things and if Peggy wants a strong, meaningful career she is probably making the right choice, for now, and not just because her family dynamic would take up most of her emotional energy. 

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