S01.E05: Charity Has Two Functions

[OtterMommy]

Air date: February 21, 2022

[AntFTW]

 

[dmc]

Every instinct I have tells me Mr. Raikes absolutely cannot be trusted and I still absolutely believe he's some sort of confidence man.  Marion is so set on breaking rules she isn't relying on common sense.  

I don't want Gladys anywhere near Oliver but I knew the young man she liked would crash and burn at dinner

I loved the charity woman and like how she's so practical about money. 

I felt for Anne Morris because she lost her husband but it isn't Bertha or George's fault.  She better remarry stat.  Who knows a handsome gent who likes snobby, uptight women with a penchant for dowdy colors?  Also don't make fun of Irish people, Anne.  I used to be obsessed with the Kennedys and when JFK ran for office he had to deal with all this Irish prejudices from people like Anne YEARS later.  

I like Peggy's mother but I have been in Peggy's situation.  Which is to say, I had a authoritative, controlling father and a mother who always felt like she had to be on his side.   Peggy's mother is finding out the hard way what happens in that position, meaning you get shut out of your kid's life.  I am all for loyalty but if your spouse is in the wrong, being on their side isn't helping them or you or your kid.  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by dmc

[AntFTW]

Somebody's salty! Anne Morris 👀

[Enigma X]

It seems that every emotion that people have on this show is flat. Happy=flat. Shocked=flat. Sad=flat. Just flat.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Enigma X

[eejm]

Damn, George and Bertha really are a united front.  I really wanted to like Mrs. Bruce (the Russells’ housekeeper), but now she’s a spy.  Gladys is just a tool for Bertha’s ambitions.  She deserves better.

I’m glad Peggy and Marian made up.  Marian is kind of a drip, but I genuinely like her friendship with Peggy and think it is a positive for both characters as they’re each in need of a confidante.  Peggy established a hard boundary and Marian seems to want to respect it.  I hope it stays that way.

As for Marian, I think the drastic change in her wardrobe this episode signals that she’s growing.  Who knows yet if it’s for the best or not.

Turner can fuck herself, she’s just so damned bitter and unlikeable.  I’m a little disappointed that Oscar is paying any attention to her at all.  I guess as long as he bests her in the end, I’m OK with it.

Poor Armstrong.  I wonder if she’ll end up offing her terrible mother out of despair.

Fictional Clara Barton is just as cool as the actual Clara Barton!

I know Agnes is a doyenne of old New York society, but everyone referring to her as “Aunt Agnes” seems weird.

Edited February 22, 2022 by eejm

[dmc]

5 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

It seems that every emotion that people have on this show is flat. Happy=flat. Shocked=flocked. Sad=flat. Just flat.

Yep. 

 

1 minute ago, eejm said:

Damn, George and Bertha really are a united front.  I really wanted to like Mrs. Bruce (the Russells’ housekeeper, but now she’s a spy.  Gladys is just a tool for Bertha’s ambitions.  She deserves better.

I’m glad Peggy and Marian made up.  Marian is kind of a drip, but I genuinely like her friendship with Peggy and think it is a positive for both characters as they’re each in need of a confidante.  Peggy established a hard boundary and Marian seems to want to respect it.  I hope it stays that way.

As for Marian, I think the drastic change in her wardrobe this episode signals that she’s growing.  Who knows yet if it’s for the best or not.

Turner can fuck herself, she’s just so damned bitter and unlikeable.  I’m a little disappointed that Oscar is paying any attention to her at all.  I guess as long as he bests her in the end, I’m OK with it.

Poor Armstrong.  I wonder if she’ll end up offing her terrible mother out of despair.

Fictional Clara Barton is just as cool as the actual Clara Barton!

I know Agnes is a doyenne of old New York society, but everyone referring to her as “Aunt Agnes” seems weird.

Yes Marion is kind of a drip

[Snazzy Daisy]

Potato digger’s daughter…

Oh my!😱

[ChlcGal]

Is it just me or did that all FLY by??

I think my favorite character (after Agnes, natch) is Aurora Fane.  I like her pragmatism about the "new" New Yorkers.

Marian is made of nothing but bad ideas. Allowing Raikes to suck her lips off in a hotel? Is she an idiot? And stop bringing up those shoes.

Anne Morris is vastly unpleasant. Your husband killed himself because he gambled and lost.  No one murdered him.

When Ada said Pumpkin needed a walk I expected to see another escape. 

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, eejm said:

Turner can fuck herself, she’s just so damned bitter and unlikeable.

...and for absolutely no reason that anyone else has caused. She's not happy with her life so she fucks with other people's.

5 minutes ago, eejm said:

I know Agnes is a doyenne of old New York society, but everyone referring to her as “Aunt Agnes” seems weird.

With the exception of Aurora Fane, and Marian of course, it is very weird that anyone else calls her "Aunt Agnes."

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

Is it just me or did that all FLY by??

I think my favorite character (after Agnes, natch) is Aurora Fane.  I like her pragmatism about the "new" New Yorkers.

Marian is made of nothing but bad ideas. Allowing Raikes to suck her lips off in a hotel? Is she an idiot? And stop bringing up those shoes.

Anne Morris is vastly unpleasant. Your husband killed himself because he gambled and lost.  No one murdered him.

When Ada said Pumpkin needed a walk I expected to see another escape. 

Marion is this show's weak link

Edited February 22, 2022 by dmc

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

Anne Morris is vastly unpleasant. Your husband killed himself because he gambled and lost.  No one murdered him.

Plot twist: Anne Morris is on the train that (crashed? derailed? exploded? whatever) and we will no longer see her again.

Anne Morris was unbearable.

[sistermagpie]

41 minutes ago, dmc said:

Every instinct I have tells me Mr. Raikes absolutely cannot be trusted and I still absolutely believe he's some sort of confidence man.  Marion is so set on breaking rules she isn't relying on common sense.  

IKR? Maybe because the alternative is we're just supposed to lean on the cliche plot and forget there's no reason for him to like her that much.

Quote

I felt for Anne Morris because she lost her husband but it isn't Bertha or George's fault.  She better remarry stat.  Who knows a handsome gent who likes snobby, uptight women with a penchant for dowdy colors? 

Every time she calls Russell a murderer it just reminds you that he killed himself because George did to him exactly what he was trying to do to George.

Turner is an absolute pill.

Edited February 22, 2022 by sistermagpie

[Brian Cronin]

A lot of these folks are unpleasant, but I honestly like that better than where we came to eventually on Downton where, like, EVERYONE was nice to each other by the end. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Dress like you’re already famous! 😂

Edited February 22, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[AntFTW]

Not a very eventful episode. We didn't get much Agnes snark. My highlight was seeing Audra McDonald and Agnes' comment on Mrs. Astor.

Marian: Do you like Mrs. Astor?

Agnes: That's like saying 'do you like rain?' She is a fact of life that we must live with.

[dmc]

1 minute ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Dress like you’re already famous! 😂

I think it’s pretty clear who the costume designer likes on this show 

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

IKR? Maybe because the alternative is we're just supposed to lean on the cliche plot and forget there's no reason for him to like her that much.

Every time she calls Russell a murderer it just reminds you that he killed himself because George did to him exactly what he was trying to do to George.

Turner is an absolute pill.

I sincerely hope he’s not a legitimate love interest because if so something went awry.

[eejm]

9 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Plot twist: Anne Morris is on the train that (crashed? derailed? exploded? whatever) and we will no longer see her again.

Anne Morris was unbearable.

We can only hope.

[dmc]

6 minutes ago, eejm said:

We can only hope.

Can she still afford to take the train? 
 

She might have to ride on horseback all the way back to the city

Edited February 22, 2022 by dmc

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, dmc said:

Can she still afford to take the train? 
 

She might have to ride on horseback all the way back to the city

She has no house and no money. I question how did she get to this event that was 200 miles away with supposedly no money.

Edited February 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[eejm]

Just now, AntFTW said:

She has no house and no money. I question how did she get to this event that was 200 miles away with supposedly no money.

Charity.  It has two functions, so I'm told.

[AntFTW]

Just now, eejm said:

Charity.  It has two functions, so I'm told.

Good one.

[ChlcGal]

18 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Plot twist: Anne Morris is on the train that (crashed? derailed? exploded? whatever) and we will no longer see her again.

Anne Morris was unbearable.

Christ, we can only hope.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Unpopular opinion, but I don’t dislike Marian. I do think she's in the unenviable position of being the audience surrogate - she mostly exists so that people like Aunt Agnes, Aunt Ada, and Aurora Fain can explain the rules of their world, so that we the audience can understand the rules of their world. That means she doesn't get a lot of opportunity to actually be a character in her own right. Part of the reason that her scenes with Peggy are more interesting because at least there we get to see both women as actual characters, not just exposition sponges.

I appreciate George wants his wife to be happy and will basically do anything she wants but perhaps he should reconsider that stance when what she wants is harming their kids. That was not a nice thing to do to Gladys and at some point, Bertha (and by extension, George) may want to consider that Gladys exists in her own right and is not just a tool of her (Bertha's) ambition. For all that Bertha thinks she's looking out for Gladys, in reality she's setting her up for an unhappy life and an unhappy relationship (ironically, quite different from Bertha's own marriage).

Edited February 22, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

Christ, we can only hope.

I stand by my assessment that she’s too poor to take the train.  But she’ll probably meet her next husband when she’s riding her horse along side of it and sees the accident.  She’ll render aid to a handsome banker missing a limb

Just now, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Unpopular opinion, but I don’t dislike Marian. I do think she's in the unenviable position of being the audience surrogate - she mostly exists so that people like Aunt Agnes, Aunt Ada, and Aurora Fain can explain the rules of their world, so that we the audience can understand the rules of their world. That means she doesn't get a lot of opportunity to actually be a character in her own right. Part of the reason that her scenes with Peggy are more interesting because at least there we get to see noth women as actual characters, not just exposition sponges.

I appreciate George wants his wife to be happy and will basically do anything she wants but perhaps he should reconsider that stance when what she wants is harming their kids. That was not a nice thing to do to Gladys and at some point, Bertha (and by extension, George) may want to consider that Gladys exists in her own right and is not just a tool of her ambition. For all that Bertha thinks she's looking out for Gladys, in reality she's setting her up for an unhappy life and an unhappy relationship (ironically, quite different from Bertha's own marriage).

I don’t dislike Marion either I honestly think she’s too boring to dislike

[Atlanta]

Poor Gladys. She deserves a love match.

Please get rid of Turner now. 

[One Imaginary Girl]

Tsk. Ellis Island wasn't an immigration center until the 1890s, which is later than the show is set, isn't it?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 minute ago, dmc said:

I don’t dislike Marion either I honestly think she’s too boring to dislike

She is boring but that's because she functions as a way for us to understand this rules-bound world. When she’s actually doing stuff, like wrangling an invitation for Mr. Raikes to attend the luncheon or flirting with him in the hallway, she at least starts to feel like a real character. Not a particularly fascinating character, mind you, but one that has some agency.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Mr. McAllister to Mr. Raikes… 🤣

[dmc]

Just now, eleanorofaquitaine said:

She is boring but that's because she functions as a way for us to understand this rules-bound world. When she’s actually doing stuff, like wrangling an invitation for Mr. Raikes to attend the luncheon or flirting with him in the hallway, she at least starts to feel like a real character. Not a particularly fascinating character, mind you, but one that has some agency.

I feel like there should be a way to do this without making a main character so boring

[AntFTW]

7 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

She is boring but that's because she functions as a way for us to understand this rules-bound world. When she’s actually doing stuff, like wrangling an invitation for Mr. Raikes to attend the luncheon or flirting with him in the hallway, she at least starts to feel like a real character. Not a particularly fascinating character, mind you, but one that has some agency.

I understand that Marian is supposed to be the person that we are to see the world within the show... but I just think that keeps her in a box.

I'm neutral on Marian but she has to keep fucking up so that we can see the world-building that the creators of the show want us to see. That doesn't leave much room for her progression, or it leave us with progression at a speed slower than a snail's pace.

Edited February 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 minutes ago, dmc said:

I feel like there should be a way to do this without making a main character so boring

There is but it would require a half dozen fewer characters, I think. I like the show but they are asking the viewer to keep track of several different plots all at once. Fewer characters would allow them to develop each of them in a more in-depth way.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

I understand that Marian is supposed to be the person that we are to see the world within the show... but I just think that keeps her in a box.

I'm neutral on Marian but she has to keep fucking up so that we can see the world-building that the creators of the show want us to see. That doesn't leave much room for her progression, or leave us with progression at a speed slower than a snail's pace.

Is she even only that, though? I mean, she's not passive at all. She's been giving opinions and following her own desires the whole show. She didn't just follow somebody to the Russells or Mrs. Chamberlain's, she schemed her way into both places.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

I understand that Marian is supposed to be the person that we are to see the world within the show... but I just think that keeps her in a box.

I'm neutral on Marian but she has to keep fucking up so that we can see the world-building that the creators of the show want us to see. That doesn't leave much room for her progression, or leave us with progression at a speed slower than a snail's pace.

No disagreement here. I think that they could have spread that function to a few other characters (including Raikes himself but also maybe Larry Russell, in a different way), so that the burden wasn't entirely on Marian and she could evolve in a more interesting way.

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

There is but it would require a half dozen fewer characters, I think. I like the show but they are asking the viewer to keep track of several different plots all at once. Fewer characters would allow them to develop each of them in a more in-depth way.

I feel like Downton had a lot of characters and plots too but they didn't seem to have an issue developing there.  I also feel like a lot of plots could be dumped because no one cares about them

Edited February 22, 2022 by dmc

[buttersister]

Quote

For all that Bertha thinks she's looking out for Gladys, in reality she's setting her up for an unhappy life and an unhappy relationship (ironically, quite different from Bertha's own marriage).

Oh Bertha is looking out for Bertha. Gladys is another rung in her social-climbing ladder.

Meanwhile, let's hope Mrs. Morris and Miss Turner don't meet.

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Is she even only that, though? I mean, she's not passive at all. She's been giving opinions and following her own desires the whole show. She didn't just follow somebody to the Russells or Mrs. Chamberlain's, she schemed her way into both places.

She seems like the main character but nothing going on with her is compelling.

Her relationship with Raikes is ehhh

Her relationship with Peggy makes Peggy looks more interesting

Her relationship with Mrs. Chamberlain makes Mrs. Chamberlain look more interesting

I am not invested in anything happening with her and I guess this isn't related but why are her clothes terrible

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

Is she even only that, though? I mean, she's not passive at all. She's been giving opinions and following her own desires the whole show. She didn't just follow somebody to the Russells or Mrs. Chamberlain's, she schemed her way into both places.

Right, and that's why I don't dislike the character because when she’s not just sitting there receiving exposition, she actually can do interesting things. But then in the next scene, they need something explained to us and poor Marian becomes the boring exposition surrogate once again.

1 minute ago, dmc said:

I feel like Downton had of characters and plot too but they didn't seem to have an issue developing there.  

I never watched Downton, so I can't make the comparison.

[dmc]

Just now, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Right, and that's why I don't dislike the character because when she’s not just sitting there receiving exposition, she actually can do interesting things. But then in the next scene, they need something explained to us and poor Marian becomes the boring exposition surrogate once again.

I never watched Downton, so I can't make the comparison.

You should it's really good!

[Straycat80]

I still want to know what this big secret is between Peggy and her father. 
Poor Gladys, I feel in time she’s going to rebel and it might be a disaster. 
I’m glad they showed how the other half lived back then by showing Mrs. Armstrongs mothers living situation. My Irish immigrant relatives lived in New York during this time and probably lived in poverty like that. 
Edited to add: nice seeing Nathan Lane but did they have to make him look like Colonel Sanders? 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Straycat80

[edhopper]

20 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Tsk. Ellis Island wasn't an immigration center until the 1890s, which is later than the show is set, isn't it?

Penn Station wasn't built until 1905. There is a lot of that in this.

Edited February 23, 2022 by edhopper

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

I loved the charity woman and like how she's so practical about money.

I thought that was very refreshing. I loved it.

She's like "I just need a check. I'm aware Bertha is not in y'all clique and I heard the 'Mrs. Chamberlain' tea..."

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Just now, dmc said:

You should it's really good!

I know, I know. I got behind the curve when it was really popular and figured I was too behind to catch up. So I never started watching it.

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I thought that was very refreshing. I loved it.

She's like "I just need a check. I'm aware Bertha is not in y'all clique and I heard the 'Mrs. Chamberlain' tea..."

You should really thank Mr. Russell.  Okay thanks Mr.  Russell.  Bye thanks for the checks 

Edited February 22, 2022 by dmc

[edhopper]

Russell seems to be a stand in foe Alexander Cassat and somewhat of a Vanderbilt. It's curios that they have removed the Vanderbilts from this era.

[AntFTW]

12 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Oh Bertha is looking out for Bertha. Gladys is another rung in her social-climbing ladder.

I think Bertha genuinely thinks she's also doing it for Gladys. I feel like what Bertha is doing was normal of people in high society., not justifying whether its right or wrong.

Agnes is doing the same to Marian. Although, Agnes is also doing it for social reasons, but not her own social end but for Marian's.

12 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Meanwhile, let's hope Mrs. Morris and Miss Turner don't meet.

Fuck the both of them but I like when things are blown up so... I'm not against it 👀

Edited February 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[Bulldog]

What accent was Nathan Lane going for?  For some reason, I expected him to start hawking fried chicken any moment. 

[Popples]

So Marian did get dresses that weren't blue or yellow.

Damn, George was so cold to young Archie. That was a hell of a choice he gave him. It appears George will always defer to Bertha when it comes to the domestic side of his life. This was the most Larry Russell has had to do since the first episode, all he usually does is just eat a meal. He needs to get back in the game and be the third side to the triangle because Raikes is bad news.

I can't believe Raikes thought Marian would let him in her room, he's trying so hard to get her into a compromising situation. There is the theory that the railroad stocks of Marian's late father weren't completely worthless after all, and I'm warming to it.

I need the rest of Peggy's backstory! These crumbs are driving me crazy.

2 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

What accent was Nathan Lane going for?  For some reason, I expected him to start hawking fried chicken any moment. 

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

What accent was Nathan Lane going for?  For some reason, I expected him to start hawking fried chicken any moment. 

I was thrown off by the accent. After some very brief research, the man is from Georgia so I guess that explains... something.

Edited February 22, 2022 by AntFTW

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, Popples said:

So Marian did get dresses that weren't blue or yellow.

Damn, George was so cold to young Archie. That was a hell of a choice he gave him. It appears George will always defer to Bertha when it comes to the domestic side of his life. This was the most Larry Russell has had to do since the first episode, all he usually does is just eat a meal. He needs to get back in the game and be the third side to the triangle because Raikes is bad news.

I can't believe Raikes thought Marian would let him in her room, he's trying so hard to get her into a compromising situation. There is the theory that the railroad stocks of Marian's late father weren't completely worthless after all, and I'm warming to it.

I need the rest of Peggy's backstory! These crumbs are driving me crazy.

Lol nope only blue and yellow.

and velvet ribbon tied around her neck.  I keep thinking somebody’s going to pull it off and her head will roll off

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by dmc