S01.E09: No Strings Attached

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Friends had 6 main characters all with their own stories.  The show Community has a main cast of 7.  The Office had a main cast of at least 10.  I don't find the other characters an issue in the series.

Those were on network tv back in the day when a season wasn't 10 episodes.  Friends had 24 - 25 episodes per season, so extra characters were kind of needed to provide enough material.  

[violet and green]

I was informed a few days ago that SJP, Rambo, and KD are all earning 1 million dollars per episode for this dreck. That is ten million dollars each - before you add in whatever fees accrue from executive producer status, directing an ep, etc. Ten million dollars... Probably other series' leads have earned these rates, but I can't imagine their characterisation was just phoned in - or in Cynthia's case, acted like she's in a bad amateur theatrical production.

The writing of the series is 99% terrible, though it has its moments (mostly moments of Steve! or DE is saving a mediocre script with fine acting in those moments). But for a million bucks an episode, you'd think there would be a little more recall of their character's voices, their mannerisms, and histories - even if the writers' seem to have forgotten or were just going by a quick watch of two random eps from the series and a board with some random factoids on a single sheet of paper about each main character: Charlotte, prissy, adopted daughter, wealthy. Miranda, wears plaid. Carrie, heels! - and less superficial readings of their dilemmas.

[Trillian]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

In it they discuss that line: "You can't be the white lady just writing a check." MPK says, "I'm sure it will be a lightning rod line." He sounds so self-satisfied for writing it, like he's so aware and we're all going to gasp in shock. . .  um, as we recognize ourselves and realize we have to do better? Is that why he calls it a "lightning rod line"? 

Well, it's not a new line. I've basically been hearing it for 5 years or more. They're saying it's not enough that you "write a check", you have to show up and give your time and prove that you truly care and are involved.

Except maybe some white (and all other) ladies are spending their time earning the money that goes into those checks, doing other things that need to be done, or doing behind-the-scenes volunteer work for other charities and causes (not getting handed a t-shirt). Paint and painting supplies cost money, and cash donations can be spent for the shelter's other needs, like beds and bedding, furniture, kitchen supplies, toiletries, etc.

Yes, Carrie's going to write a check and also paint, as are Miranda and Charlotte. Seema is going to write a check, not paint, sit and smoke like a boss, and pull the hot guy. LTW showed up in that outfit thinking "paint" meant it was a makeup party, so she pivoted to corralling the food trucks to get the volunteers fed. It's all good and there are different ways to contribute. MPK and others aren't going to make me feel guilty for not showing up at every march, walk, shelter renovation, whatever. Don't have the time nor the outfits, sorry. This white lady is gonna keep "just" writing checks.

Thank you for this.  The line made me feel uncomfortable.   I have a coworker who used to run a women’s shelter who has told me, more than once, that if people want to help, send money.  Not canned goods, used clothes or unskilled labour (all of which will be accepted with a public smile, but often a private grimace).  Money. They also serve who only stand and write cheques. 

24 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

 

I did like them sitting around the table and Charlotte gloating, only to get her period while wearing all white!

Lily's hysterics are more related to her being Charlotte's daughter, I suspect.

Lots of girls and women aren't comfortable using tampons. That isn't new. It's great that you had an easier experience but it's not the same for everyone. It doesn't make you or your mom bad either. 

I always knew about tampons, but I always thought they were for adults and I knew a lot of girls/young women who didn't use tampons until years after getting their first period. 

I’m so sorry. I absolutely didn’t mean to shame any woman who had/has a hard time with tampons or who just doesn’t like them. The over-the-top hysterics just got to me — and I think most of can at least agree, they were too much. Why Charlotte couldn’t just tell Lily to wait until after their dinner, and why she persisted as her challah roasted to a crisp, is beyond me.

18 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

Actually, this came up in a group discussion once, around the issue that men can unfairly go topless but women can't. Turns out, it's actually legal in some places - and NY (or at least NYC) is one of them. You never see it though, probably because women who were brave enough to do it would be harassed so much.

Ontario, Canada, too. Although I’ve never seen it either. 

12 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

I started at 16. 

Again, oops and sorry. I knew as I was watching - and again while typing - that some women don’t start until mid to late teens.  The thought even went through my mind when Lily started shrieking that it might be her first, but it quickly obvious from the context that it wasn’t. And I went downhill from there….

[JeanJean]

6 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Again, oops and sorry. I knew as I was watching - and again while typing - that some women don’t start until mid to late teens.  The thought even went through my mind when Lily started shrieking that it might be her first, but it quickly obvious from the context that it wasn’t. And I went downhill from there….

No problem! Hug.

[Ms Blue Jay]

34 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Those were on network tv back in the day when a season wasn't 10 episodes.  Friends had 24 - 25 episodes per season, so extra characters were kind of needed to provide enough material.  

Ok, so the new Gossip Girl has many main characters and that's a 12 episode season.  Mare of Easttown.  The Crown.  Succession.  Ginny and Georgia.  The new Saved by the Bell.  The Babysitters Club.  Emily in Paris.  The Morning Show.  All of these shows have way more than 3 main characters and about a 10 episode season.  I could go on.

[Litnit]

17 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Thank you for this.  The line made me feel uncomfortable.   I have a coworker who used to run a women’s shelter who has told me, more than once, that if people want to help, send money.  Not canned goods, used clothes or unskilled labour (all of which will be accepted with a public smile, but often a private grimace).  Money. They also serve who only stand and write cheques. 

This. A nice cheque means you can hire professional painters who will get the job done , not a bunch of dilettantes discussing their personal lives.

Miranda continues to be embarrassing. 

Love Seema but smoking isn't a personality. I wish they would do more with her.

[RealHousewife]

56 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

Actually, this came up in a group discussion once, around the issue that men can unfairly go topless but women can't. Turns out, it's actually legal in some places - and NY (or at least NYC) is one of them. You never see it though, probably because women who were brave enough to do it would be harassed so much.

I missed the scene, but I've heard that women can legally walk around topless in NYC. It just seems so uncomfortable to me. I wouldn't do it myself, but I can understand wanting to swim/sunbathe topless. Just walking around with my boobs bouncing around in front of strangers? Hell no. Our bodies are different. I know I'm different than a lot of feminists on this issue, but I digress. 

50 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

I started at 16. 

Were you also on the smaller side for your age? I know some tiny girls who started menstruating very young, but I wondered if I started at 15 because I was slight. It's more common to start menstruating in your mid-teens than it is to have a baby around 50, but there have been more posts about Lilly being too old to get her first period than for Nya to try to have a baby. I know Lilly just wanted to begin tampons because of the party, but no she's absolutely not too old to get her first period. 

[CeeBeeGee]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:52 AM, ivygirl said:

But then we still had Che and the cookies and the additional set of ADORING fans… 

VOMIT. "Ohhhh, Cheeee...we're your biggest fannnnnns...you're so awesome...." STOP SHOVING THEM DOWN OUR THROAT.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 5:17 AM, Aulty said:

The story with Charlotte and her menopause/flash period did feel like a SATC-Charlotte plot, I'll give them that, even though I didn't get all the fuss about using tampons.

I loved the Lily storyline. Charlotte is such a good mother. And I love Lily.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 10:56 AM, Evie said:

I could have done without the story, but I'm sure not all teenagers want to use tampons. I didn't. I had it in my head that it would hurt and knew of someone who had gotten toxic shock syndrome. I was a senior when I finally gave in. My sister showed me how, and it did not go well. I was tense, which made it difficult.

Lily was only motivated to use a tampon after realizing she would get her period during the Hamptons pool party. Not every girl uses tampons from the start. I didn't until the summer before my senior year in college (I am tiny in every way (haaaaate going to the gyno) and I feared it would hurt--and it did, until my mother suggested using lube). I was only motivated because of an overnight, very messy accident.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 3:27 PM, tennisgurl said:

I just have no idea what CN is doing, not only has she taken over the show to turn it into her own personal autobiography, but she's acting like some kind of manic coke addled preteen, is this her take on "in love"? 

I have been pretty meh on the idea of Carrie dating again, it still feels like its pretty soon, but I really like the teacher and his scene with Carrie was really good. When Carrie had to take a second when he talked about still listening to his deceased wife's last message to him, I really felt that.

I actively hate Miranda rn and frankly I'm starting to feel that way about Nixon. She has assassinated this character. Are we supposed to be cheering on this kind of cruelty toward Steve and Brady? She has faced zero consequences for her terrible, terrible behavior. No fallout, nothing. 

I do love the Carrie/teacher plotline. He seems awesome and real.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 5:22 PM, Lethallyfab said:

Anthony’s “GET OUT!” to his date was the first and only time that I legitimately laughed out loud - a full cackle! - during this series.

David Eigenberg might be the best male actor on the entire series.  (Which, back in the day, was perfect as Nixon was the best actress in the series - not so much anymore!) Those scenes with Carrie were wrenching.

Anthony's immediate reaction was fucking hilarious, as implausible as it would be for a guy to say that right off the bat to a Jewish couple he'd just met. I too cackled.

The Steve/Carrie scene was lovely. Miranda doesn't deserve him.

 

20 hours ago, Shermie said:

Re: Miranda being so manic and screechy. Cynthia Nixon is on The Gilded Age now, where she plays a placid, quiet, spinster aunt. Maybe, as an actress, she’s role-compensating.

And I don’t know one woman (outside of tv tropes) who viewed menopause sadly as an end to their fertility. By that time, thoughts of babies are long past.

Oh my GOD, the scene in the STAIRWELL. I have never been seized with more vicarious mortification--not even the scene in Carrie's kitchen was that bad. I literally was throwing out my hands to avoid having to see it. Have some fucking pride, Miranda. Jesus. Stop shrieking in the public areas of someone else's building, stop running after them you look utterly pathetic, just STAHP. (I mean, "I was craving me some Che"? VOMITTTTTTTTT.) And Che needs to make up their damn mind. Are you two a legitimate couple as was implied when you asked "your son doesn't know about us?" Or are you getting to know each other and you're clearly uncomfortable when Miranda called herself "the girlfriend"?

And Che saying you should've texted/called before you came over--didn't you show up unannounced at both the hospital and Carrie's apartment? Where you had sex in the kitchen and then ghosted Carrie? Ugh, they're the worst.

WRT to menopause--after the first Are You There, God-inspired flush of impending womanhood subsided, I hated getting my period. I jumped for joy at the news I was undergoing early menopause (in my early 40s).

 

19 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah.  I wondered that the whole episode.  What city are they in.  Then I realized I don't give a fuck.  Send them to Jupiter.

New Miranda is a worse character than Che.  New Miranda is the worst character I've ever seen in my life.  

FWIW I'm pretty sure the Empire diner is in Queens. *checks* No, it's in Manhattan, in Chelsea.

[MBayGal]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Ok, so the new Gossip Girl has many main characters and that's a 12 episode season.  Mare of Easttown.  The Crown.  Succession.  Ginny and Georgia.  The new Saved by the Bell.  The Babysitters Club.  Emily in Paris.  The Morning Show.  All of these shows have way more than 3 main characters and about a 10 episode season.  I could go on.

Of the five of those I've seen, four are an hour long, so twice as much time to fill. I think the problem with the added characters is most of them don't seem connected with the main story.  Or at least the story we expected. Just my thoughts, not trying to argue.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

The Baby Sitters Club, Saved by the Bell, and Emily in Paris are 30 minute episodes. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

4 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I loved the Lily storyline. Charlotte is such a good mother. And I love Lily.

Charlotte's the only character I'd want as a mother. Very maternal/nurturing. Samantha obviously had zero interest in kids (which is fine and good to feature). Carrie always came across as a bit of a kid herself. Miranda doesn't seem to be thinking about Brady at the moment. 

I am also a Lily fan. Yes she was kind of hysterical about the tampons, but she's adorable and a good kid. 

[violet and green]

I like Lily a lot, before she started screeching and screaming and saying 'No-uh" like a Bachelor contestant.

But I object to an enormous chunk of the run time of this episode taken up with the tampon 'plotline'. And hoovering up the airtime that would more properly have been used with Cleveland, and/or Steve and Brady's adjustments to Miranda's whatever with the Che.

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, violet and green said:

I like Lily a lot, before she started screeching and screaming and saying 'No-uh" like a Bachelor contestant.

lol! That's funny. In Lily's defense, she's 15, and the Bachelor contestants are usually around 25. One of the reasons I lost interest in the franchise actually. 

[JeanJean]

18 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Were you also on the smaller side for your age? I know some tiny girls who started menstruating very young, but I wondered if I started at 15 because I was slight. It's more common to start menstruating in your mid-teens than it is to have a baby around 50, but there have been more posts about Lilly being too old to get her first period than for Nya to try to have a baby. I know Lilly just wanted to begin tampons because of the party, but no she's absolutely not too old to get her first period. 

I think I was pretty average for my age. I was smaller in terms of female development - my breasts didn't grow until around the time my period showed up.

[Dr.OO7]

48 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

started at 16

And I was 14. 5 and quite relieved, after almost 2 years of feeling like a freak because I was the only one in my class who hadn't.

Wow. I knew girls could start as young as 10 and as old as 16, but I'd never outright "known" anyone who started at either of those ages.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Dr.OO7

[Dr.OO7]

2 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

. I was smaller in terms of female development - my breasts didn't grow until around the time my period showed up.

Yet another reason I was convinced something was wrong with me--everything else about puberty had happened and I couldn't understand why it was taking so long for my period to start when my breasts had been developed for years.

The human body is such a strange and fascinating thing.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, JeanJean said:

I started at 16. 

I was a late bloomer too!  

My daughter was 10, that was crazy.

[JeanJean]

9 hours ago, chuckity said:

I don't mind it at all ... I'm fascinated by real teeth on the screen.   I get excited when I see them and automatically think the actor has balls for going against the grain and not getting them fixed.  

 

Me, too. It's one of the reasons I like British actors.  It's particularly jarring when all the actors have perfect teeth and it's something set in the past.

[mikem]

In the last episode, when they cut directly from Steve looking like he was about to start crying when Miranda told him she had met someone else and was cheating on him, to Miranda excitedly telling Carrie that Steve was fine with it and she felt like she was in a rom-com, I was sure they were setting Miranda up for some major disillusionment.  But that's not what happened, so I am completely confused.  They are giving Steve these gut-wrenching moments and making it clear that Che is a player, and yet Miranda is NOT getting a hard return to reality?  I don't know what the writers are up to.

Carrie is indeed a lot more likable.  I think it's because SJP is finally being allowed to show true vulnerability and ambivalence that is not motivated by selfishness or immaturity.  SJP has got the acting chops, and I'm glad that she's being allowed to show them here.

I thought the extremely lengthy screentime about a 15-year-old having trouble inserting a tampon to be a very strange choice.  I was happy to read online that Cathy Ang, the actress playing Lily, is 26 in real life, which makes it less icky.  She's a really good actress.  I really thought she was a teenager.  

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

But I object to an enormous chunk of the run time of this episode taken up with the tampon 'plotline'. And hoovering up the airtime that would more properly have been used with Cleveland, and/or Steve and Brady's adjustments to Miranda's whatever with the Che.

 

THANK YOU!

[violet and green]

1 minute ago, T Summer said:

THANK YOU!

I'm so cross!

[T Summer]

Just now, violet and green said:

I'm so cross!

Just think of how much better the writing could have been...

AND

Think of how much time there could have been saved for storytelling if everything to do with bodily functions could have been stricken from this whole premiere season!

[violet and green]

Just now, T Summer said:

Think of how much time there could have been saved for storytelling if everything to do with bodily functions could have been stricken from this whole premiere season!

Exacatly! It wasn't even funny - not the piss, not the vomit, not the diarrhea story, not the stain on Charlotte's white overalls as she walked away from the portaloo and the tampon string drama, after the tampon insertion drama, after the periods coinciding with the pool party screaming drama... 

[Alice Mudgarden]

3 hours ago, violet and green said:

I was informed a few days ago that SJP, Rambo, and KD are all earning 1 million dollars per episode for this dreck. That is ten million dollars each - before you add in whatever fees accrue from executive producer status, directing an ep, etc. Ten million dollars...

I want to get paid 10 million dollars to ruin a beloved show in order to live out my life on screen.

Actually, no I don't. I'm boring. But I would like to get paid 10 million dollars. If Cynthia Nixon can get rewarded with it for her awful vanity project, surely the ennui my show would induce is worth at least that.

[JasonCC]

I don't mind Cynthia Nixon's teeth and find it refreshing.

As I've mentioned on other episodes, I think some of the elements are there--like they should have played up the drinking more as a sign of deep unhappiness not just "my drinking got ramped up under COVID" (although that was realistic...I know!). I know some might view that as character assassination of Miranda in another way, but show how unhappy Miranda was and make it less about Che and more about the catalyst to a manic midlife crisis of some sort. Sometimes her acting choices reflect that, then sometimes they don't. The dessert nights on the couch with Steve are sweet I think not divorce-worthy. They needed to show her misery more to make this work.

Edited January 29, 2022 by JasonCC

[monagatuna]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I missed the scene, but I've heard that women can legally walk around topless in NYC. It just seems so uncomfortable to me. I wouldn't do it myself, but I can understand wanting to swim/sunbathe topless. Just walking around with my boobs bouncing around in front of strangers? Hell no. Our bodies are different. I know I'm different than a lot of feminists on this issue, but I digress. 

Were you also on the smaller side for your age? I know some tiny girls who started menstruating very young, but I wondered if I started at 15 because I was slight. It's more common to start menstruating in your mid-teens than it is to have a baby around 50, but there have been more posts about Lilly being too old to get her first period than for Nya to try to have a baby. I know Lilly just wanted to begin tampons because of the party, but no she's absolutely not too old to get her first period. 

Nah, that's what feminism IS, though--feminists defend modesty the same as freeing the nipple. You want to cover your hair? Feminism supports that. You want to wear prairie dresses? Feminism supports that. You want to go tits to the wind? Feminism supports that. The only difference between male and female nipples is lactation, and female nips should not be some taboo.

To your second point, anecdotes are not data, but I was 85 pounds and started at 11. It varies for everyone. I think Lily probably started sooner but didn't want to wear tamps, which I can sympathize, it took me ages to get comfortable with them.

[candle96]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:19 PM, meligator said:

I tried to talk my daughter through it when she was 14 - she is anxious - it did not go well.  It's been more than a year and I don't know which decade she'll try again.

My best friend got her period for the first time when were 12 (at summer camp!) and she put in a tampon as if she'd been doing it her whole life. I tried on and off for a couple of years, but never really got the hang of them. Finally a beach vacation the same week of my period forced me to figure it out when I was about 15. Then I had a friend in college at 18/19 who couldn't use them and were several of us went into the bathroom with her in the dorm to coach her along. Everyone's different!

[SailorGirl]

7 hours ago, funnygirl said:

It's not fair how hot her and her husband (Boris Kodjoe) are. 

I'd never heard of him so I googled. Holy. Sha-mole. How is it possible to be this beautiful, x2??? 

[ivygirl]

4 hours ago, JasonCC said:

The dessert nights on the couch with Steve are sweet I think not divorce-worthy. They needed to show her misery more to make this work.

YES! Dessert Night on the Couch reads as a GOOD thing. Certainly better than Slightly Unhinged Afternoon of Screeching and Cookies in the Stairwell. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by ivygirl

[BrindaWalsh]

For those who have pointed out the inconsistencies with the "woke agenda" on this show - i.e. gender identification vs. antisemitism - isn't that the whole argument against the woke agenda as a whole?  That it is ultimately not nearly as accepting as it claims?  It certainly was not as inclusive of the AAPI community in the beginning and Jewish people have pointed out the silence towards the rise in anti-semitism.  I feel like disability acceptance was neglected until very recently.  Body acceptance is a whole other "movement" on its own - (hey SATC righting your wrongs writers and cast, have you ever had a plus size character on the show?  Or how about a confident, comfortable, plus size character?).  Art imitates life, I suppose. 

The writers have it wrong about white women and their checkbook. The rich white woman is absolutely allowed to still write her check instead of rolling up her sleeves. You don't want her to go away. You don't want ANY donor to go away, unless it is Bill Cosby or Richard Sackler or somebody like that. You can't dictate how a person chooses to be charitable unless they want to give you a check for something that doesn't quite fit your priorities or mission, or there is some quid pro quo thing they are trying to push through.  You just can't prop the white donor on the pedastal anymore.  Instead you have to talk about the impact of that gift and focus on the community it helped.  Think pictures of the women and children in the shelter, and an article about how their lives are more stable now with maybe a small mention of the donor. As opposed to a story about the white woman and her checkbook and why it was important to her to write her check for this specific cause, along with a perfectly poised photo of her all glossy and impeccable, surrounded by the shelter children.  That is what doesn't work anymore.   But if Carrie wanted to write a check to the shelter and join Seema for a cigarette while Miranda, Charlotte, Steve, Nya and others painted?  That is perfectly acceptable. 

Honestly, these writers are just SUCH dumbasses.  They remind me of all of the white people who ran around in the beginning of the black lives matter moment preaching *their* beliefs and *their* observations and *their* stories until the black community collectively said "sit down, shut up and just start listening because your observations and preaching about standing with us just proves that you still don't get it."  These writers are not witty and woke.  They are sanctimonious, simple-minded nitwits.

And finally, that safari chic outfit looked like it was straight out of a very original banana republic catalog with some gold detail added to it.  Yes, I am old and remember when BR first opened and was this weird safari hiking clothing brand with lots of his and hers khaki cargo shorts.

 

[27bored]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:21 AM, luna1122 said:

I'm sure none of that helped, and those were the reasons they separated the first time. But they got back together. she dealt with Bunny, and miraculously Trey's dick began to work pretty well. The final breakup was because he didn't want to keep trying for a baby. 

 

Yeah that scene with Dr. Nya and her husband — it’s almost the end of the season and I still don’t know his name…Tony? Craig? Chris? Dwayne? IDK — had echoes of Charlotte’s growing resentment with Trey. I always felt like that was one of the lowest points in the series for Charlotte. Like, you marry the man you love and want to spend the rest of your life with. Not the first good-on-paper guy whom you think will give you children. And it’s not really anybody’s fault, but Charlotte was the one with the fertility issues. Some of that comes down to age. When you wait until your mid-30s to seriously try having a child, there’s a higher likelihood for difficulty. In reality I think most fertility specialists would’ve told them to keep trying, give it a year, take this, try not doing that, and see what happens. Then we can see what other options you may consider. 
 

And the show played Trey’s exhaustion with trying and Charlotte Charlotting with him being not really there for her. That was a moment of selective traditionalism in a show that was seen as progressive for its time. Like we can’t judge Samantha, Carrie, or any other women for not wanting kids, but when a man doesn’t, he’s letting his wife down.

Compare that to Dr. Nya and what’s-his-name. Her being exhausted with trying to have a child, but his still wanting one? I’m almost certain it’s going to played as pressuring her or not being understanding.

[RedHawk]

Yes, Trey's ED got fixed and then Charlotte focused on a new "problem" in their relationship. She needed a perfect baby or two (not cardboard!) to fulfill her little girl dreams of the perfect image of adult life. Didn't Trey at one point say something like "Aren't we enough?" Charlotte was putting a lot of pressure on a man who'd only recently been able to have actual sex with her. And I was never convinced that Charlotte really had a yearning for a child, something deep down, unlike Andre whose paternal instinct is kicking in hard. You can see he wants and maybe needs to be a father. 

Andre (that's his name) and Nya are interesting as a plausible story from the flip side. I think Andre is supposed to be younger than Nya by a few years, and Nya has achieved more professionally and financially, she is carrying a lot in the relationship already. So we're introduced to this seemingly happy couple and we get a glimpse of their dynamic (hot sex! fertility struggles) and then we're hit with the big one: Andre isn't going to be happy without a child; Nya thinks she won't be happy with one. What's that going to do to this couple? I like these two people and their story is valid, but plopping them into the middle of this show hasn't worked well. My suspicion is that Andre will be yet another husband who gets jettisoned so that more of these gals can be "single" and the show can focus on their (search for a man?) stories.

Edited January 29, 2022 by RedHawk

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Charlotte was putting a lot of pressure on a man who'd only recently been able to have actual sex with her. And I was never convinced that Charlotte really had a yearning for a child, something deep down, unlike Andre whose paternal instinct is kicking in hard. You can see he wants and maybe needs to be a father. 

Taking this to compare and contrast thread. 

[Evie]

17 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

And I was 14. 5 and quite relieved, after almost 2 years of feeling like a freak because I was the only one in my class who hadn't.

Wow. I knew girls could start as young as 10 and as old as 16, but I'd never outright "known" anyone who started at either of those ages.

I started on my 10th birthday. Not a good present. 

[luna1122]

Just now, Evie said:

I started on my 10th birthday. Not a good present. 

I was 9. Still playing with dolls and then I got my period and fairly soon after, boobs. I looked 16 when I was 10. I got into a lot of trouble. 

[Surrealist]

3 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

For those who have pointed out the inconsistencies with the "woke agenda" on this show - i.e. gender identification vs. antisemitism - isn't that the whole argument against the woke agenda as a whole?  That it is ultimately not nearly as accepting as it claims?  It certainly was not as inclusive of the AAPI community in the beginning and Jewish people have pointed out the silence towards the rise in anti-semitism.  I feel like disability acceptance was neglected until very recently.  Body acceptance is a whole other "movement" on its own - (hey SATC righting your wrongs writers and cast, have you ever had a plus size character on the show?  Or how about a confident, comfortable, plus size character?).  Art imitates life, I suppose. 

The writers have it wrong about white women and their checkbook. The rich white woman is absolutely allowed to still write her check instead of rolling up her sleeves. You don't want her to go away. You don't want ANY donor to go away, unless it is Bill Cosby or Richard Sackler or somebody like that. You can't dictate how a person chooses to be charitable unless they want to give you a check for something that doesn't quite fit your priorities or mission, or there is some quid pro quo thing they are trying to push through.  You just can't prop the white donor on the pedastal anymore.  Instead you have to talk about the impact of that gift and focus on the community it helped.  Think pictures of the women and children in the shelter, and an article about how their lives are more stable now with maybe a small mention of the donor. As opposed to a story about the white woman and her checkbook and why it was important to her to write her check for this specific cause, along with a perfectly poised photo of her all glossy and impeccable, surrounded by the shelter children.  That is what doesn't work anymore.   But if Carrie wanted to write a check to the shelter and join Seema for a cigarette while Miranda, Charlotte, Steve, Nya and others painted?  That is perfectly acceptable. 

Honestly, these writers are just SUCH dumbasses.  They remind me of all of the white people who ran around in the beginning of the black lives matter moment preaching *their* beliefs and *their* observations and *their* stories until the black community collectively said "sit down, shut up and just start listening because your observations and preaching about standing with us just proves that you still don't get it."  These writers are not witty and woke.  They are sanctimonious, simple-minded nitwits.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

This is the response I was looking for.

[mansonlamps]

18 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Those were on network tv back in the day when a season wasn't 10 episodes.  Friends had 24 - 25 episodes per season, so extra characters were kind of needed to provide enough material.  

Not to mention those characters were part of the ensemble from the beginning.   They didn't try to double the ensemble in a 10 episode season and expect the audience to be invested in the new characters stories.

18 hours ago, Litnit said:

This. A nice cheque means you can hire professional painters who will get the job done , not a bunch of dilettantes discussing their personal lives.

Miranda continues to be embarrassing. 

Love Seema but smoking isn't a personality. I wish they would do more with her.

The smoking totally turns me off from this character.   If someone is smoking in the car next to me at a stoplight it makes me gag, let alone around a crowd including kids. 

17 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

And I was 14. 5 and quite relieved, after almost 2 years of feeling like a freak because I was the only one in my class who hadn't.

Wow. I knew girls could start as young as 10 and as old as 16, but I'd never outright "known" anyone who started at either of those ages.

Both my cousin and my college roommate started at 9 and thought they were bleeding to death since no one had prepared them that early. 

[libgirl2]

I was 13 and ready! Took awhile to use tampons though.

[SunnyBeBe]

Whew…..finally caught up on this thread. Lol

Well, I will say that Anthony loading the food van in his sexy shorts did make me LOL.  🤣   I was glad that later he kicked out the date that he had been so impressed with. The man does not mince words. Pardon the pun. 
 

Yes, the tampon thing was overdone for sure. It really made Charlotte and Lilly appear like cartoon characters. Doesn’t appeal to me.  To me, it seemed it was written by someone who had zero experience with any of it.  Maybe, I’m too critical cause at age 12 I grabbed my mom’s box, read the instructions and did fine.  I didn’t even tell my mom. She eventually noticed her tampons were disappearing and asked me about it. Lol

The writers don’t know much about fund raising either.  You always want cash donations so you can pay for all the things you need, like skilled labor.  So, the charity was going to pay for 100 peoples’ lunch? And, children and unskilled labor working without safety equipment in a building undergoing renovations?  Ughhhhh…..not good on so many levels.
 

I wish Carrie was in a bereavement group.  Isn’t she seeing a therapist?  Any online website talks about grieving at your own pace, each person is different, there’s no certain rule for how long it takes to move forward in grief, etc.   I was surprised she was so focused on the rings.  
 

I guess it brings me back to how the writers just seem like very young, inexperienced people, say age 14 or just clueless.   

[mstar1125]

21 hours ago, Trillian said:

Thank you for this.  The line made me feel uncomfortable.   I have a coworker who used to run a women’s shelter who has told me, more than once, that if people want to help, send money.  Not canned goods, used clothes or unskilled labour (all of which will be accepted with a public smile, but often a private grimace).  Money. They also serve who only stand and write cheques. 

 

7 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

The writers have it wrong about white women and their checkbook. The rich white woman is absolutely allowed to still write her check instead of rolling up her sleeves. You don't want her to go away. You don't want ANY donor to go away, unless it is Bill Cosby or Richard Sackler or somebody like that. You can't dictate how a person chooses to be charitable unless they want to give you a check for something that doesn't quite fit your priorities or mission, or there is some quid pro quo thing they are trying to push through.  You just can't prop the white donor on the pedastal anymore.  Instead you have to talk about the impact of that gift and focus on the community it helped.  Think pictures of the women and children in the shelter, and an article about how their lives are more stable now with maybe a small mention of the donor. As opposed to a story about the white woman and her checkbook and why it was important to her to write her check for this specific cause, along with a perfectly poised photo of her all glossy and impeccable, surrounded by the shelter children.  That is what doesn't work anymore.   But if Carrie wanted to write a check to the shelter and join Seema for a cigarette while Miranda, Charlotte, Steve, Nya and others painted?  That is perfectly acceptable. 

Yes to all of this. I've been involved with several organizations, all of whom are ecstatic about those "rich white women who write checks". Because usually they aren't very helpful otherwise - see: Carrie in her high heel shoes trying to paint.

 

21 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

WRT to menopause--after the first Are You There, God-inspired flush of impending womanhood subsided, I hated getting my period. I jumped for joy at the news I was undergoing early menopause (in my early 40s).

 

I can't wait for menopause. I know it comes with its own set of issues (e.g., hot flashes) but I'm ready. 

 

[libgirl2]

59 minutes ago, mstar1125 said:

Yes to all of this. I've been involved with several organizations, all of whom are ecstatic about those "rich white women who write checks". Because usually they aren't very helpful otherwise - see: Carrie in her high heel shoes trying to paint.

 

I can't wait for menopause. I know it comes with its own set of issues (e.g., hot flashes) but I'm ready. 

 

I had a partial hysterectomy in my mid 30s. I do not miss periods! 

[luna1122]

I think Miranda's specific words to Carrie were that she couldn't be the white woman who just writes checks, as in she was expecting her, as a friend, to ALSO show up at the event to paint. She was guilting her friends, not saying the organization didn't like or even prefer the actual money. And Carrie made it clear she was still writing a check, as I'm sure Charlotte did as well. 

I thought Nya said that whoever was supposed to be providing lunch that day and got the dates mixed up was DONATING the food. And so I wondered if LTW got those food trucks to donate or if that was her version of writing a check. 

[MBayGal]

Funny so many people here did not like the period/tampon plot, but it has generated so many comments😉, many quite personal!

[Trillian]

1 hour ago, mstar1125 said:

I can't wait for menopause. I know it comes with its own set of issues (e.g., hot flashes) but I'm ready. 

There is something very freeing about menopause.  No period (or cramps or worrying about accidents). No birth control! But, it comes with so much more than a year, or more, of hot flashes and night sweats and crabbiness - although some women don’t get any of that. It’s a total, if gradual, change of one’s entire body. While every woman is different, it’s not uncommon for always-thin women to find themselves packing on the weight;  hair and skin gets dull.  Speaking of hair - welcome to the five o’clock shadow. You may not have to pluck your eyebrows anymore, but you have to pluck your chin.  Vaginal dryness due to lack of estrogen.  If you’ve had a baby, you will probably pee a bit when you laugh or cough and if you’re lucky, it’s only a bit. Etcetera etcetera. And somewhere along the line is the realization that you (if you’re blessed by genes, hard work/exercise and a team of federal makeup artists) no longer look good, but you now look good for your age.

This episode was the one where they could have least touched on some of that.  Could’ve played it for laughs, even, because, as my mother used to say “growing old is better than the alternative”.   I’m disappointed that they didn’t even try.

[JasonCC]

Quote

I think Miranda's specific words to Carrie were that she couldn't be the white woman who just writes checks, as in she was expecting her, as a friend, to ALSO show up at the event to paint. She was guilting her friends, not saying the organization didn't like or even prefer the actual money

I also interpreted it as Miranda just guilting her friends to have their support/presence. The organization as a whole? Still needs those white women who just write checks.

It just occurred to me that Nixons's experience--which Miranda's mirrors--happened to her around age 38. CN is playing it (maybe?) as how she was then. 

Maybe that is the disconnect. She's channeling her late 30s self, engaging in first non-traditional sexual relationship...and they are writing Steve like 8-10 years older than the character.

Edited January 30, 2022 by JasonCC

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I had a partial hysterectomy in my mid 30s. I do not miss periods! 

My cancer treatment ends next month (as does my medically-induced menopause). I turn 46 in May.

There's a possibility my period will return, but I'm hoping not. I started mine at 12, and I haven't missed it being gone. Menopause hasn't been terrible.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Surrealist

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

There is something very freeing about menopause.  No period (or cramps or worrying about accidents). No birth control! But, it comes with so much more than a year, or more, of hot flashes and night sweats and crabbiness - although some women don’t get any of that. It’s a total, if gradual, change of one’s entire body. While every woman is different, it’s not uncommon for always-thin women to find themselves packing on the weight;  hair and skin gets dull.  Speaking of hair - welcome to the five o’clock shadow. You may not have to pluck your eyebrows anymore, but you have to pluck your chin.  Vaginal dryness due to lack of estrogen.  If you’ve had a baby, you will probably pee a bit when you laugh or cough and if you’re lucky, it’s only a bit. Etcetera etcetera. And somewhere along the line is the realization that you (if you’re blessed by genes, hard work/exercise and a team of federal makeup artists) no longer look good, but you now look good for your age.

This episode was the one where they could have least touched on some of that.  Could’ve played it for laughs, even, because, as my mother used to say “growing old is better than the alternative”.   I’m disappointed that they didn’t even try.

There was a Vogue article about this (In case you haven't seen it)

https://www.vogue.com/article/and-just-like-that-menopause

OPINION

Why is And Just Like That… Being So Weird About Menopause?

BY TARA ELLISON

January 28, 2022

Edited January 30, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[mansonlamps]

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

There is something very freeing about menopause.  No period (or cramps or worrying about accidents). No birth control! But, it comes with so much more than a year, or more, of hot flashes and night sweats and crabbiness - although some women don’t get any of that. It’s a total, if gradual, change of one’s entire body. While every woman is different, it’s not uncommon for always-thin women to find themselves packing on the weight;  hair and skin gets dull.  Speaking of hair - welcome to the five o’clock shadow. You may not have to pluck your eyebrows anymore, but you have to pluck your chin.  Vaginal dryness due to lack of estrogen.  If you’ve had a baby, you will probably pee a bit when you laugh or cough and if you’re lucky, it’s only a bit. Etcetera etcetera. And somewhere along the line is the realization that you (if you’re blessed by genes, hard work/exercise and a team of federal makeup artists) no longer look good, but you now look good for your age.

This episode was the one where they could have least touched on some of that.  Could’ve played it for laughs, even, because, as my mother used to say “growing old is better than the alternative”.   I’m disappointed that they didn’t even try.

Trust me, the peeing happens to ALL women whether or not you've had a baby. 

1 hour ago, JasonCC said:

I also interpreted it as Miranda just guilting her friends to have their support/presence. The organization as a whole? Still needs those white women who just write checks.

It just occurred to me that Nixons's experience--which Miranda's mirrors--happened to her round age 38. CN is playing it (maybe?) as how she was then. 

Maybe that is the disconnect. She's channeling her late 30s self, engaging in first non-traditional sexual relationship...and they are writing Steve like 8-10 years older than the character.

She was using race to guilt Carrie for whatever reason,  of course charitable organizations always welcome the check as well they should. 

[ifionlyknew]

6 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

 

She was using race to guilt Carrie for whatever reason,  of course charitable organizations always welcome the check as well they should. 

Women of color don't write checks?

It's like this show just wants to say shit to get attention.

They can't seem to do anything right. They want to highlight all these issues and do a piss poor job of going beyond just the box checking of mentioning it. 

 

[mansonlamps]

5 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Women of color don't write checks?

It's like this show just wants to say shit to get attention.

They can't seem to do anything right. They want to highlight all these issues and do a piss poor job of going beyond just the box checking of mentioning it. 

 

I believe the point was supposed to be white women have to do more, hence Seema's comment that said something like she was happy not to be white in this particular situation.  I'm sure checks are welcome from all people who can afford to write them.