S06.E03: Four Fathers

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Especially since so far he's been a douchy douche nozzle. 

I have a theory that someone on the writing staff has a significant other who love romance novels and talking about romance novels, and that person thinks he/she/them understands the genre due to this secondhand info.  The romantic plots in this show almost hit the mark for many romance tropes.  Kate and Philip is reading like grumpy-sunshine.  Philip is definitely grumpy, but I would not classify Kate as sunshine.  Only in the writers' minds is Kate sunshine.  

[PRgal]

56 minutes ago, Pallas said:

A great post.

Deja's someone special. She's made of potential, and so far she's refused or recovered from every chance to sabotage it or let others drain it out. She's also a high school junior in love with a boy who lives 300 miles away with his young daughter and near the child's mother while he's a freshman in college. 

Years ago, Deja was already making homes for Shauna because she loved her and she had to; how much better it will be to make a home and a family with Malik and Janelle!, she may feel. Why couldn't she finish high school in Cambridge and go to college in Boston after Malik graduates? Malik may not make it through Harvard without someone -- Deja -- there, to take care of them! This is her life, and what she wants to do with it. She's ready. She's always been ready, and he needs her -- he wants her! So what's not to like?

Because she's a minor.  Where would she live?  Or do you mean send her to boarding school for her final two years?  That costs money.  And anyway, boarding schools have rules about signing out overnight.  They ALSO might not like the idea of a student spending an entire weekend with a college-age boyfriend without expressive permission from parents/guardians. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Because she's a minor.  Where would she live?  Or do you mean send her to boarding school for her final two years?  That costs money.  And anyway, boarding schools have rules about signing out overnight.  They ALSO might not like the idea of a student spending an entire weekend with a college-age boyfriend without expressive permission from parents/guardians. 

It really depends on how old Deja is, and the state laws.  I'm not going to do more research into the specific Pennsylvania or Massachusetts laws regarding this (not doing more research than the writers), but many states in the US allow 16 or 17 year-olds to marry without parental permission.  This marriage would emancipate Deja from Beth and Randall allowing her to move up to Cambridge and finish high school or dropout, get her GED and go to community college.   There would be no legal recourse for Beth and Randall to stop this.  All they could do is not give Deja any financial assistance.   

I really hope the show does not go in this direction.   But, this is a possible scenario at least where I live.  

[kili]

Quote

I really hope the show does not go in this direction.   But, this is a possible scenario at least where I live.  

Yikes - I hope not either. Deja's mom was 16 when she had Deja, but she also initially had the support of Deja's grandmother.

While there are people who married their first love they met when they were fourteen and are now happily celebrating their 50th anniversary, they are the exception. There are probably even people who can chime in and say that they quit school to get married at 16 to help their Harvard boyfriends raise their toddler and once their husband graduated to be a Michelin three star chef, they themselves went back to medical school and are now happily celebrating their 50th anniversary, but they would be even rarer exception.

I hope there is a realistic payoff for them introducing Malik, but I fear there is not. At best, I'm hoping for an exception than an even rarer exception.  People grow and change so much in their late teens and early twenties. 

Also, if Deja and Malik end up together and Deja is pregnant in the flash forward, Janelle will be in her early to mid teens when her new half-sibling arrives. That would certainly be a change for Janelle.

[Pallas]

32 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I really hope the show does not go in this direction. 

Me too, and I don't think it will: I'm still convinced that the show believes in Deja's future, as well as in her. But I could see this seeming like "the way it's meant to be" to Deja, an old soul who's also a kid in love -- and for the moment, anyway, more in love with his future than her own. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I had my share of eye rolls during this episode, however, what surprised me the most was the scene when Kevin shows up at Madison’s to see the babies.  A part of his behavior seemed way overdone…….I mean more so than Kevin’s usual exuberance over things he loves.  But the kicker was how poorly acted Madison’s part was! Omg….the way she described the vomit and peanut butter in her hair.  So fake! She needed more direction on that scene, imo.  She held up her hair like it was a high school play.  I felt like another student in acting class watching her go.   I haven’t noticed that before with that actress.  
 

Also, what is wrong with these two parents that they don’t have an attorney draw up a custodial arrangement?  It’s really common.  It’s not so much the parent’s  right to have that time with the child, but the child’s right to have time with the parent.  Kevin thinks he’s being deprived, but it’s the children who suffer when they don’t have time with each parent.  Regardless of his schedule, there are ways to make it work.  

Edited January 20, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[CrystalBlue]

Randall's takedown and edict being a problem for Deja is going to have to wait for her 18th birthday to not be a problem for her.  In Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, minors cannot marry without parental consent.

"...Pennsylvania marriage age requirement laws previously allowed minors as young as 16 to get married with parental consent. However, in May 2020, Pennslyvania followed several other states in outlawing child marriage. The minimum age to get married in Pennsylvania is 18 and there are no exceptions.  Sep 14, 2020."

Massachusetts Law - Child Brides

[chocolatine]

59 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It really depends on how old Deja is, and the state laws.  I'm not going to do more research into the specific Pennsylvania or Massachusetts laws regarding this (not doing more research than the writers), but many states in the US allow 16 or 17 year-olds to marry without parental permission.  This marriage would emancipate Deja from Beth and Randall allowing her to move up to Cambridge and finish high school or dropout, get her GED and go to community college.  

Deja is in med school in the flash forward, so at least we know that whatever she ends up doing with Malik will not permanently derail her education.

24 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I had my share of eye rolls during this episode, however, what surprised me the most was the scene when Kevin shows up at Madison’s to see the babies.  A part of his behavior seemed way overdone…….I mean more so than Kevin’s usual exuberance over things he loves.  But the kicker was how poorly acted Madison’s part was! Omg….the way she described the vomit and peanut butter in her hair.  So fake! She needed more direction on that scene, imo.  She held up her hair like it was a high school play.  I felt like another student in acting class watching her go.   I haven’t noticed that before with that actress. 

The most ridiculous part was that her hair was still curled. I've had babies throw up in my hair, and let me tell you, whatever style I had my hair in before did *not* survive the baby-vomit. (BTW, I hate that curled hair style on her. When she was first introduced in S1 she had long, straight hair, which looked much better than the curled bob.)

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, kili said:

Even in the Pearson home, one of the first things she saw was Beth deciding to give up on her dreams and her home of many years to allow to Randall pursue his dreams. Beth constantly capitulates to Randall's wants because Randall won't budge.

I definitely have issues with Randall and his stupid whims, but I wouldn't go this far.

Beth and Randall sold the New Jersey house because Beth wanted to. The money from the sale allowed her to open her dancing school, which was an out-of-the-blue whim that she had. She pursued that whim even though it made their situation more difficult.

Beth also unilaterally invited her mother to live with the family indefinitely, despite her mother being an insufferable person who treats Randall (and everyone else) poorly.

[cameron]

Unfortunately, schedules are meant to be broken.  My child was a little under 6 pounds when he was  born and the the prescribed 10 2 4 6 feeding schedule didn't work for him.  Most times he fell back asleep before he finished his bottle.  Wakeup people, it happens.

[Violetgoblin6]

I was kinda bored during this episode, especially the Randall and Deja parts. 

 

Nice to see young Jack again, obviously a very successful singer. The marriage of his parents "blew up" thanks to the Green Egg (there is a Green Egg seller down the street from me)...oh, and in 2045 or whenever we can still get huge hunks of red meat...or perhaps because Jack Damon is one of the "elite". I'll have to re-watch the opening scene and listen to the background voices again. I swear one was Rebecca's.

 

So, Cassidy is back. I knew it was awfully odd to have her appear in season 4 as a main character and then...poof. This show does nothing casually. 

 

So, as a time buff I immediately honed in on the posters in the theater. I'm guessing it was February 1987 (I was nearly 13) as the movie poster for Black Widow with Debra Winger and Teresa Russell was shown (released February 1987) and Lady and the Tramp was re-released Christmas 1986 and was sure to still be in theaters in February. Did anyone else zero in on any other movie posters? Jack's mom died in early 1987. Makes sense as did he mention his mom being dead on the 1989 Thanksgiving episode with the motel and hotdogs. His dad died in 1989 when Rebecca and Kate went to see Turner and Hooch. 

Edit: I must admit I loved the use of Cat Stevens. My bff and I were obsessed with Cat Stevens Greatest Hits senior year, 92-93. We played it constantly. I do hope, however, that this last season picks up. 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Violetgoblin6

[Tango64]

10 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Why was Future Blind Jack smoking so much food anyway?  For only 2 people?  

Well, you know, blind man grilling. Maybe he throws a few pounds of meat on the grill, pokes it a while, and hopes some portion of it comes out just right. 

[Johnny Dollar]

I’m glad this show is ending because I can’t take much more of the Whiney Three. They treat every problem that arises like they just awoke from a thirty year coma and don’t have a clue what they’re dealing with. Plus, most of the problems are of the “Welcome to the real world Pearsons!” variety. Sorry, Kevin, but there are a lot of working parents who don’t get to witness some milestones in their children’s lives. Sorry, Kate, but no one forced you to adopt another baby when you already were struggling caring for the one you already had. Sorry, Randall, but teens have sex and the fact that your daughter wasn’t already on birth control is a crimes. Sorry, St Jack, but the problem isn’t that your kid got lost in a mall, the problem is that you’re such a shitty parent that he didn’t know better than to walk off on his own. And you’d think since the other two kids who were so self aware that they knew what was happening with the Challenger explosion might have alerted you to the fact that their brother walked off.

Having Kevin hook up with his TV daughter would do wonders for the fake tv show and his career when the news got out. And why does his new tv family need a manny anyway? Two adults and a 17 year old can’t handle two babies?

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I’m glad this show is ending because I can’t take much more of the Whiney Three. They treat every problem that arises like they just awoke from a thirty year coma and don’t have a clue what they’re dealing with. Plus, most of the problems are of the “Welcome to the real world Pearsons!” variety. Sorry, Kevin, but there are a lot of working parents who don’t get to witness some milestones in their children’s lives. Sorry, Kate, but no one forced you to adopt another baby when you already were struggling caring for the one you already had. Sorry, Randall, but teens have sex and the fact that your daughter wasn’t already on birth control is a crimes. Sorry, St Jack, but the problem isn’t that your kid got lost in a mall, the problem is that you’re such a shitty parent that he didn’t know better than to walk off on his own. And you’d think since the other two kids who were so self aware that they knew what was happening with the Challenger explosion might have alerted you to the fact that their brother walked off.

Having Kevin hook up with his TV daughter would do wonders for the fake tv show and his career when the news got out. And why does his new tv family need a manny anyway? Two adults and a 17 year old can’t handle two babies?

That new manny looks about 17 himself. LOL

[gonzosgirrl]

I dunno, I don't think many people would watch a weekly drama about a bunch of well adjusted people who handle all of life's challenges exactly right. I bitch about St. Randall (sorry, St. Jack has nothing on him) and selfish Kate and clueless Kevin, but I also tune in every week to see how things work out, anyway.

[Crs97]

I really appreciate that this show comes from a place of love.  With all the shows highlighting hateful families, I will continue to gripe about the little stuff but watch anyway and miss it when it’s gone.

[OpalNightstream]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:18 PM, PRgal said:

I also want to LOL at Deja calling Randall’s music, “old man music.”  Because, well, EXCUSE ME (this means Jewel, Alanis, Sarah McLachlan et al I listened to is “Old Lady Music”)!!!

It is! My kid in college thinks music from 2016 is old!

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I dunno, I don't think many people would watch a weekly drama about a bunch of well adjusted people who handle all of life's challenges exactly right. 

My problem isn't that the characters are flawed, it's the tropey and unimaginative writing. Each person has his or her characterization and everything they do revolves around it with no nuance or surprises. It's totally predictable at this point.

[JayDub1987]

I'm still watching this show because my wife and I got into it at the get go, but I really don't like any of these people anymore. 

[himela]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:37 PM, Madding crowd said:

the Kate hate is strong due to her being fat. 

I couldn't agree more.

[MissLucas]

9 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Having Kevin hook up with his TV daughter would do wonders for the fake tv show and his career when the news got out. 

Am I the only one who thought that plotline was hitting a bit close to home? *cough*Heroes*cough* 

[madmax]

I'm guessing it was just me, since I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else here (unless I missed it, LOTS to read) but I got weird vibes from Kevin when he was visiting Madison after Franny (?) walked for the first time.  I was thinking he would be heading to a lawyer to actually work up a visitation schedule.

Edited January 22, 2022 by madmax

[CrystalBlue]

54 minutes ago, madmax said:

I'm guessing it was just me, since I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else here (unless I missed it, LOTS to read) but I got weird vibes from Kevin when he was visiting Madison after Franny (?) walked for the first time.  I was thinking he would be heading to a lawyer to actually work up a visitation schedule.

He should definitely do that.  Not start out adversarial with Madison, but approach her on getting a visitation schedule in ironclad writing.  Otherwise Kevin has to see his twins on her schedule, he can't just pop over anymore which irritates her, and she can hopefully entertain book club guy (Elijah?) on her own time.

[Kirkydee]

Ok, I just don't understand where people interpret Deja "That's going to be a problem" comment as she's pregnant or they eloped.  I heard it as " he's my man, I'm in love and I intend to see him one way or another". 

This episode should've been 3 fathers instead or 4 fathers.  I understand an earlier poster saying it showed the contrast of Rebecca and Kate's reaction to their spouses, but the Javk at the movies with little 3 was filler to me.  I much rather have heard the conversation between Beth and Deja in the bedroom.  Beth seeing Dejas point of view that it's more than puppy love.  Beth confiding in her either her and Randall's college shenanigans or Beth and some high school boyfriend.  Better than the stoned 80s theater employee or the ridiculously low price of 8 bucks for those snacks.  ( I was in my early 20s during that time)

I always liked the Cassidy character.  Grounded and attractive without being glammed up.  Also thoroughly unimpressed than Kevin is a celebrity.  Don't forget Madison was somewhat starstruck around Kevin at 1st.  I never believed Kevin and Madison as an organic couple.  She's banging the hot celebrity and he's using his Mannyness to bang a cutie ( Madison is cute, not hot IMO)

[debraran]

10 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

He should definitely do that.  Not start out adversarial with Madison, but approach her on getting a visitation schedule in ironclad writing.  Otherwise Kevin has to see his twins on her schedule, he can't just pop over anymore which irritates her, and she can hopefully entertain book club guy (Elijah?) on her own time.

You know she'll want a sitter to go out (not that there aren't a lot of options) and Kevin will feel put out, he'll want to visit and it's inconvenient, he might actually be a big boy and get his own space and want them to come over and she's got something planned. The "winging it" approach might work in the beginning but I've seen it get messy fast. Too strict isn't great either but if friendly a weekend can be tweaked and the rest. It's when you aren't that you really need it in writing and when life gives you new things to deal with a plan gives the kids something concrete not is daddy popping in after I'm in bed.

In all the future scenes with Kevin and the twins and Rebecca dying, does he ever mention "mom"? I remember looking at youtube clips and never heard it. He says "Hey baby to his daughter, gives her a hug, but where is his wife?" Wouldn't Madison be there anyway if Toby is? Was the omission to add to the mystery?

Edited January 22, 2022 by debraran

[PRgal]

12 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

Ok, I just don't understand where people interpret Deja "That's going to be a problem" comment as she's pregnant or they eloped.  I heard it as " he's my man, I'm in love and I intend to see him one way or another". 

This episode should've been 3 fathers instead or 4 fathers.  I understand an earlier poster saying it showed the contrast of Rebecca and Kate's reaction to their spouses, but the Javk at the movies with little 3 was filler to me.  I much rather have heard the conversation between Beth and Deja in the bedroom.  Beth seeing Dejas point of view that it's more than puppy love.  Beth confiding in her either her and Randall's college shenanigans or Beth and some high school boyfriend.  Better than the stoned 80s theater employee or the ridiculously low price of 8 bucks for those snacks.  ( I was in my early 20s during that time)

I always liked the Cassidy character.  Grounded and attractive without being glammed up.  Also thoroughly unimpressed than Kevin is a celebrity.  Don't forget Madison was somewhat starstruck around Kevin at 1st.  I never believed Kevin and Madison as an organic couple.  She's banging the hot celebrity and he's using his Mannyness to bang a cutie ( Madison is cute, not hot IMO)

Maybe Madison writes a tell-all book about having babies with the OG Manny.

[Boo Boo]

On 1/20/2022 at 6:29 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I had my share of eye rolls during this episode, however, what surprised me the most was the scene when Kevin shows up at Madison’s to see the babies.  A part of his behavior seemed way overdone…….I mean more so than Kevin’s usual exuberance over things he loves.  But the kicker was how poorly acted Madison’s part was! Omg….the way she described the vomit and peanut butter in her hair.  So fake! She needed more direction on that scene, imo.  She held up her hair like it was a high school play.  I felt like another student in acting class watching her go.   I haven’t noticed that before with that actress.  
 

Also, what is wrong with these two parents that they don’t have an attorney draw up a custodial arrangement?  It’s really common.  It’s not so much the parent’s  right to have that time with the child, but the child’s right to have time with the parent.  Kevin thinks he’s being deprived, but it’s the children who suffer when they don’t have time with each parent.  Regardless of his schedule, there are ways to make it work.  

The funny thing to me is the pretense here is odd.  He's upset he missed his kid walking.  Join the club pal, a lot of these things happen when parents are at work.  He's not special in that direction.  And if he was still living in the garage (?), he could've very easily missed that moment too b/c he was working.

[perkie1968]

On 1/20/2022 at 6:58 PM, chocolatine said:

The most ridiculous part was that her hair was still curled. I've had babies throw up in my hair, and let me tell you, whatever style I had my hair in before did *not* survive the baby-vomit. (

This.  So much, this!!   She also said it had happened hours earlier, so the idea that she's spent the day with vomitted hair completely grossed me out. I have a thing against vomit, just typing the word makes me gag, so the idea that she didn't immediately or as soon as humanly possilbe didn't jump into the shower to wash it out makes me nauseous.  

[debraran]

3 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

This.  So much, this!!   She also said it had happened hours earlier, so the idea that she's spent the day with vomitted hair completely grossed me out. I have a thing against vomit, just typing the word makes me gag, so the idea that she didn't immediately or as soon as humanly possilbe didn't jump into the shower to wash it out makes me nauseous.  

I know it's TV but I had twins and a 3 year old and somehow stayed fairly clean and showering is doable with them in crib or play pen. (I mastered 3 min showers) ; )  I think that's why all the angst makes me roll my eyes along with her love of the poop smell. I wish I had that but alas I had to get rid of them asap. ; )  Maybe that would cut down on her babies rash.

Edited January 23, 2022 by debraran

[himela]

4 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

This.  So much, this!!   She also said it had happened hours earlier, so the idea that she's spent the day with vomitted hair completely grossed me out. I have a thing against vomit, just typing the word makes me gag, so the idea that she didn't immediately or as soon as humanly possilbe didn't jump into the shower to wash it out makes me nauseous.  

Also she could hire a nanny for the babies for 8 hours and take care of herself. Kevin has a lot of money so an everyday nanny will be nothing for him. That's another reason I stopped enjoying this show, some things just don't make sense.

[watch2much]

I still like Kevin because he's like a lovable golden retriever trying to figure things out.  I used to like Randall but he's so self centered it's tiresome.  Love Beth, however, who's able to cut thu all his BS.  I've always liked Toby.  And I don't hate Kate because she's fat.  I like her less than the others because I don't see her do any self reflection that the others have.  I suppose the old boyfriend thing was something and of course we know Jack's death had affected her.  but what's she doing to try to get beyond that? berating her husband at every opportunity?  

and as others have said....Kevin is rich and more than willing to help Madison and Kate with nannies, etc.  there's no need for either of them being so strung out.  Toby is doing the best he can...and it could be a temporary situation.  Kevin has the ability to assess himself, Randall is exhausting but with Beth's help he can also adjust, Kate is just exhausting.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, himela said:

Also she could hire a nanny for the babies for 8 hours and take care of herself. Kevin has a lot of money so an everyday nanny will be nothing for him. That's another reason I stopped enjoying this show, some things just don't make sense.

They did have a nanny last season. I guess the nanny exists or doesn't exist based on what the plot demands. 

[madmax]

3 hours ago, watch2much said:

I still like Kevin because he's like a lovable golden retriever trying to figure things out.  I used to like Randall but he's so self centered it's tiresome.  Love Beth, however, who's able to cut thu all his BS.  I've always liked Toby.  And I don't hate Kate because she's fat.  I like her less than the others because I don't see her do any self reflection that the others have. 

Totally agree.  When the series first began, I ranked the Big Three Randall, Kevin, Kate.  Now, one and two have flipped, and Randall is only edging out Kate by the slimmest of margins.

Kate actually seems to be more self-centered than Randall to me, and that's saying something.

[OpalNightstream]

On 1/21/2022 at 5:16 PM, himela said:

I couldn't agree more.

I can’t stand Madison and it’s not because she’s thin. I’ll take Kate over Madison any day. 

[PRgal]

19 hours ago, debraran said:

I know it's TV but I had twins and a 3 year old and somehow stayed fairly clean and showering is doable with them in crib or play pen. (I mastered 3 min showers) ; )  I think that's why all the angst makes me roll my eyes along with her love of the poop smell. I wish I had that but alas I had to get rid of them asap. ; )  Maybe that would cut down on her babies rash.

Unless the three year old loves to run around and show you things whenever and wherever.  I wasn't watching for ONE SECOND and we ended up having a crayon graffiti incident on a wall a few months ago.

[himela]

1 hour ago, OpalNightstream said:

I can’t stand Madison and it’s not because she’s thin. I’ll take Kate over Madison any day. 

Nobody stands Madison, this is not someone to be compared.

I've seen it many times both in this forum and also in real life that people are angry at fat people. It's something deeply psychological so I won't try to justify it.

[cameron]

41 minutes ago, himela said:

Nobody stands Madison, this is not someone to be compared.

I've seen it many times both in this forum and also in real life that people are angry at fat people. It's something deeply psychological so I won't try to justify it.

 I actually like Madison.  Better than whiney Kate.

[mansonlamps]

1 hour ago, himela said:

Nobody stands Madison, this is not someone to be compared.

I've seen it many times both in this forum and also in real life that people are angry at fat people. It's something deeply psychological so I won't try to justify it.

If people in America are angry at fat people than they must spend an awful lot of time being angry,  especially post pandemic.

[mostlylurking]

20 minutes ago, cameron said:

 I actually like Madison.  Better than whiney Kate.

I also like Madison. I found her storyline and insecurities relatable last season. I liked her and Kevin together even if it wasn’t the conventional happily ever after story, which doesn’t exist fyi. I do find it unrealistic that they wouldn’t have moved to a larger house, it looks like the twins room is right by the front door in what looks to be a spare office/den or something. Also yeah, if my baby daddy was a rich celebrity you best believe there would be a nanny involved in our daily activities!

I do also like Kate. I really wasn’t a fan in the first season, but she has gotten better and more developed as a character. I felt her pain with trying to keep the kids on a schedule. I really wish she and Toby would find a way to make it work, but I am interested in the events that are going to transpire and that end up with them divorced and her marrying douchey teacher guy. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Madison still gives me creepy/stalker vibes. I fully expected a Fatal Attraction storyline with her. Kate is often selfish and self-centered but at least she has a personality. I am interested in what happens to her character. I could not care less about Madison, even as the mother of Kevin's children.

[JayDub1987]

2 hours ago, cameron said:

 I actually like Madison.  Better than whiney Kate.

Same. I don't dislike Madison at all, and I don't care about Kate's size. I don't like the character because they've spent five seasons making her a self-indulgent, self-centered twat waffle. 

[Boo Boo]

21 hours ago, watch2much said:

I still like Kevin because he's like a lovable golden retriever trying to figure things out.  I used to like Randall but he's so self centered it's tiresome.  Love Beth, however, who's able to cut thu all his BS.  I've always liked Toby.  And I don't hate Kate because she's fat.  I like her less than the others because I don't see her do any self reflection that the others have.  I suppose the old boyfriend thing was something and of course we know Jack's death had affected her.  but what's she doing to try to get beyond that? berating her husband at every opportunity?  

and as others have said....Kevin is rich and more than willing to help Madison and Kate with nannies, etc.  there's no need for either of them being so strung out.  Toby is doing the best he can...and it could be a temporary situation.  Kevin has the ability to assess himself, Randall is exhausting but with Beth's help he can also adjust, Kate is just exhausting.

People hate Kate b/c she's fat?  I must've missed that. EDIT:  Nevermind, I missed the comment above where someone mentioned people angry at Kate for being fat.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Boo Boo

[debraran]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

Unless the three year old loves to run around and show you things whenever and wherever.  I wasn't watching for ONE SECOND and we ended up having a crayon graffiti incident on a wall a few months ago.

Mine was hyper but hated coloring and Mr Rogers had him transfixed for 30 min at least ;) 

Edited January 24, 2022 by debraran

[Boo Boo]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:49 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also did not see Kate doing anything out of the ordinary. If anything, I saw the fun dad vs. mean mom trope in full effect with Toby and his gifts.  I get Toby wanting to spend time with his kids, but he needs to respect the schedule Kate has set up.  

Which is one of the problems I have with this show in general.  The men in the Pearson circle, and some adjacent are these over the top, big gestures, romantic fools, doting fun dads, while the women are these complex creatures who sometimes are soooooo bitchy when all the men wanted to do was their big gesture!

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Which is one of the problems I have with this show in general.  The men in the Pearson circle, and some adjacent are these over the top, big gestures, romantic fools, doting fun dads, while the women are these complex creatures who sometimes are soooooo bitchy when all the men wanted to do was their big gesture!

Well, according to some posters only Kate is a bitch for attempting to reign in Toby.  Hence, the talk about how the character of Kate is perceived differently due to Chrissy Metz's weight.  Rebecca, Beth, and Madison are all spared this particular level of hate.  

[mostlylurking]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

  Rebecca, Beth, and Madison are all spared this particular level of hate.  

I don’t know, I mean I’ve seen a lot of hate for Madison. Both for the character and the actress by claiming she only got the job because of her husband.  I think she’s gotten plenty of hate, she just hasn’t been around as long as Kate/Chrissy. 

[Crs97]

Rebecca spared this particular level of hate?  Might I direct you back to social media regarding season one of this show?

I have had sympathy for Kate in other storylines, but not this one.  The show writers have done her a massive disservice.  Maybe if we didn't already know she is remarrying douchebag the dissolution of their marriage might seem more organic.  Right now it just seems like she is finding reasons to be unhappy.

Unfortunately for Kate, too many of us have had to move for spouse's work and/or have had spouses work away from home several days a week.  (As I said, husband and I had 4 children in 4 years and 2 with pretty intensive special needs.  We moved cross country and knew no one in the area.)  Listening to her complaining just rubs me all the way wrong, especially when Toby acknowledged he screwed up and made sure she wouldn't be late to the performance. 

Considering she has enthusiastically agreed to the hysterically stupid smoker of doom purchase, I don't see this storyline getting better.  When a child gets hurt under one parent's watch, I find myself not judging and just thinking, "There but for the grace of God go I."  If they write this that Jack's injured under Toby's watch and Kate leaves him because of it, as suggested in the flash forward, I will continue to gripe about her.

[kili]

Quote

and as others have said....Kevin is rich and more than willing to help Madison and Kate with nannies, etc.  there's no need for either of them being so strung out.  Toby is doing the best he can...and it could be a temporary situation. 

Well, the nanny thing is kind of on Toby. Kevin and Madison had Toby and Kate over for dinner and Toby/Kate were talking about getting jobs and childcare issues. Kevin offered that they would be happy to help with childcare and that it would be great if the cousins could grow up together and offered to hire another nanny or a teacher or a special aid. It would be like their own daycare.

Toby exploded and told Kevin "Damn it, Kevin, just stop. Just stop. All right, I don't need you paying for my kids' lives." Kevin tried to explain that he makes stupid money and this would be a good use for the money and he got called condescending. Kevin says that he sees his money as money for the entire family, but Toby just made rude comments about how Kevin's family is not normal and Madison isn't really a Mom. 

In that episode, Kevin and Madison did have a nanny (the magical nanny that used to work for Timberlake). 

Kevin would happily pay for a nanny for anyone who asks (probably even Malik), but he is probably afraid to offer one again. If the offer was rudely rejected when both Toby and Kate were unemployed, another offer when they are employed would not be warmly accepted.

Who takes care of Hailey when Kate is teaching? Jack might be at school, but the babysitter who only sits sleeping children is probably not the one who looks after the kid(s) when Kate is teaching.

[Scarlett45]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:54 AM, Lone Wolf said:

Speaking of Jacks, Future Blind Jack seems to have done well for himself. My GF thought they were on vacation at a resort when we first saw that palatial estate. I'm interested to find out how he apparently amassed that much wealth.

He’s a very well to do recording artist. We saw that at the beginning of season 4 when he gets out of the limo (he and his GF are discussing her pregnancy) and he walks onto a stage with lights and they announce him- he starts to sing. 

[bros402]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:13 PM, TexasGal said:

Why was Future Blind Jack smoking so much food anyway?  For only 2 people?  

ok so when you smoke, you want to do a bunch

 

smoked food freezes really well, and you don't want to just make one serving, you make a few servings so when you are craving some smoked food, you get it out, defrost it, and enjoy