S01.E08: Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

[27bored]

19 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Interestingly, Che told Miranda that they would be OK with having a relationship with her if she were in an open relationship.  Why Miranda didn't think that was an option and instead chose to ask Steve for a divorce rather than an open relationship just shows right there that she's not going to like having one with Che either. 

Well, I think this goes back to what Charlotte said a few episodes ago. Miranda isn’t progressive enough for this. I think they played it for laughs at the time  or like it was a dig at Miranda’s age, but the wisdom in that is that a leopard can’t change its spots. 
 

Because you’re absolutely right. Che was giving Miranda the opportunity to eat her cake and have it too. Miranda decided to leave Steve anyway. I think it’s because, at the end of the day, Miranda’s still a woman. I don’t know if it’s bad writing or misplaced sensibilities but everyone is an accumulation of their experiences, good and bad. Miranda has spent her entire life with men. That scene when she said she hates “traditional” because “traditional” is what got her where she is now, was telling in what wasn’t being said by her or Che. Being open to queer sex is one thing, but I think Miranda’s assuming relationships are fairly boilerplate. When you love someone you commit to them and only them. You make a choice. I think even Miranda understood what many of us have said: she was having an affair. She rationalized it in her mind but it’s still an affair. And the way to stop an affair is by ending it with someone. And Che’s cool, laid back stoner vibe might be a welcome change of pace for Miranda when compared to Steve, but again, that’s superficial. Che and Miranda are in different life arenas. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by 27bored

[Jillybean]

Here's a quote from Cynthia Nixon's new interview with Entertainment Tonight:

“Even though I’m an executive producer and I got to direct an episode, I am not a writer. And so, that is one of the great privileges of being a writer, that it’s not my job to figure it out, thank god,” Nixon says. “You know, it’s my job to say that doesn’t seem right for my character. But in terms of the amazing writers, we have [been] dreaming things up. They know much better than I do.” 

She has failed miserably at that job.

[ExMathMajor]

On 1/20/2022 at 4:33 AM, bobbyjoe said:

5) I guess in an episode like this I actually find that both Charlotte and Carrie feel like the characters we once knew, and at least— though its still really uncomfortable— the show does seem to be making it more clear that we’re meant to see Miranda’s weird and awful behavior as something going wrong for her, and not as just some positive narrative about personal growth.

In my mind I'm still watching Alternate History SATC, and I'm watching it with detachment and curiosity --  like, this show isn't something I see myself rewatching EVER -- but I kinda-sorta agree with this point.

Now I need to see Miranda fall really, REALLY hard on her face...I need there to be consequences for these actions if this storyline is going to have any sort of redeeming artistic quality (for ME; not speaking for anyone else).

I can count on one hand the number of times this show has made me laugh or even smile. I did smile upon seeing some of the old SATC outfits. The mille-feuille dress had me wondering what Aleks was up to. I assume at 70-something he's no longer chasing cabs, but he's probably still upright and working...

Edited January 21, 2022 by ExMathMajor
further ruminations about the sexy Russian

[RedHawk]

8 minutes ago, ExMathMajor said:

I can count on one hand the number of times this show has made me laugh or even smile. I did smile upon seeing some of the old SATC outfits. The mille-feuille dress had me wondering what Aleks was up to. I assume at 70-something he's no longer chasing cabs, but he's probably still upright and working...

And now Carrie is about the age Aleks was when they were together. I would love to have one mention of him, like a comment from Charlotte about one of his new projects. That is the sort of thing I hoped to get from this show occasionally. I also enjoyed Carrie going through her clothing history and showing Seema THE dress. (I’m guessing Carrie burned or buried the Vivienne Westwood wedding gown.)

[ifionlyknew]

20 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Here's a quote from Cynthia Nixon's new interview with Entertainment Tonight:

“Even though I’m an executive producer and I got to direct an episode, I am not a writer. And so, that is one of the great privileges of being a writer, that it’s not my job to figure it out, thank god,” Nixon says. “You know, it’s my job to say that doesn’t seem right for my character. But in terms of the amazing writers, we have [been] dreaming things up. They know much better than I do.” 

She has failed miserably at that job.

So I guess she is perfectly fine with the character assassination of the character she has played for the better part of 25 years.  I don't for one minute believe the writers would have written this story for Miranda if Cynthia Nixon hadn't come out and left her long time male partner for a woman.  The writers just dreamt this up?  Sure Jan.

14 minutes ago, ExMathMajor said:

Now I need to see Miranda fall really, REALLY hard on her face...I need there to be consequences for these actions if this storyline is going to have any sort of redeeming artistic quality (for ME; not speaking for anyone else).

I agree with you but the writers think they are taking Miranda on this wonderful journey.  In my view it's a journey to disaster but we shall see.

32 minutes ago, 27bored said:

Miranda isn’t progressive enough for this.

I think Miranda does think she is being "woke" by leaving her white hetero husband for a non binary activist.  I think for her this is less about being gay than being part of movement.  But of course if  you ask her she is going to say she is head over heels in love with Che.

48 minutes ago, cooper16 said:

Miranda was unhappy with Steve before she cheated and that was depicted on the show. True, she should've felt remorse for it but I seems like a lot of people are upset that she decided that she wanted more for herself than a boring and bad marriage. 

I can only speak for myself but my problem with this storyline is how selfish Miranda looks.  She cheated on Steve without a second thought.  And the hypocrisy.  She was devastated when Steve cheated on her.  But after she tells a devastated Steve she found someone else she runs off to be with that someone else.  Just all around not a good look for Miranda.

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Wonder if CN has a hand in that character and will make her explore her sexuality.

I am soooo done with the actress and the character. I was done 9 episodes ago. (yeah I know this is ep 8)

I said this earlier.  I find both of them just so unlikable now.

 

 

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, cooper16 said:

 

Miranda was unhappy with Steve before she cheated and that was depicted on the show. True, she should've felt remorse for it but I seems like a lot of people are upset that she decided that she wanted more for herself than a boring and bad marriage. 

No ... She could get out of a boring "bad" marriage (how was it bad? because Steve doesnt finger bang her in a kitchen and get her stoned it was bad? .. its the way she has done it ...She is a selfish asshole because of the way she is treating steve ... you want out get out but dont hang on to the guy till something better comes along thats shitty

[27bored]

1 hour ago, cooper16 said:

This is where we differ, people don't cheat when they are happy with their partners. I get that for men, people love to sell their cheating as just them needing sex because as a society we excuse men for their nonsense all the time and it makes it easier for women to stay in bad situations since they can justify their partners betrayal as "just sex" (which is so embarrassing IMO).

Miranda was unhappy with Steve before she cheated and that was depicted on the show. True, she should've felt remorse for it but I seems like a lot of people are upset that she decided that she wanted more for herself than a boring and bad marriage. 

I guess I just feel like the notion of happiness in general isn’t as simple as it’s being played out here. I think the older you get the more you realize having peace and stability is something to fight for despite your level of happiness. 
 

Because I have to kind of disagree with you that people don’t cheat when they’re happy in their relationships. That’s a factor for sure but you leave an unhappy marriage. Cheating is an act of selfishness, and using the fact that you met someone to help usher you out of your relationship is complete bullshit.

With Miranda, she wasn’t happy, but she wasn’t particularly motivated to try and fix the issues she was having (from what we saw). She fell hard and fell fast for Che it appears because Che represented a way out. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

That scene when she said she hates “traditional” because “traditional” is what got her where she is now, was telling in what wasn’t being said by her or Che. Being open to queer sex is one thing, but I think Miranda’s assuming relationships are fairly boilerplate. When you love someone you commit to them and only them. You make a choice. I think even Miranda understood what many of us have said: she was having an affair. She rationalized it in her mind but it’s still an affair. And the way to stop an affair is by ending it with someone. And Che’s cool, laid back stoner vibe might be a welcome change of pace for Miranda when compared to Steve, but again, that’s superficial. Che and Miranda are in different life arenas. 

Yes, I agree.  I also think when Miranda said "traditional" got her where she is now she's only thinking about now realizing that she is experiencing romantic/sexual feelings for a non-binary person and how non-traditional that is, but she's completely overlooking the additional open relationship that Che is insisting on and assuming she would be able to handle that.  And I don't see that happening.  I think that if things progress between her and Che Miranda will ultimately threaten to back out of the relationship unless Che agrees to be monogamous with her.  And I don't know if that's a realistic thing to expect.  Even if the show made Che go along with something like that it wouldn't feel realistic.  And it definitely wouldn't feel realistic if they made Miranda OK with an open relationship.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Yeah No

[PepSinger]

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I also think when Miranda said "traditional" got her where she is now she's only thinking about now realizing that she is experiencing romantic/sexual feelings for a woman and how non-traditional that is, but she's completely overlooking the additional open relationship that Che is insisting on and assuming she would be able to handle that. 

Che is non-binary.

[ifionlyknew]

1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

And it definitely wouldn't feel realistic if they made Miranda OK with an open relationship.

Miranda from SATC would never agree to that however Miranda from AJLT very well might. She is so gaga for Che I can see Che telling her look this is who I am and either you accept me as I am or this isn't going to work and Miranda might say yes of course whatever you want.   

13 minutes ago, 27bored said:

With Miranda, she wasn’t happy, but she wasn’t particularly motivated to try and fix the issues she was having (from what we saw). She fell hard and fell fast for Che it appears because Che represented a way out. 

Yes, if it wasn't Che I think it would have been someone else.  And I might not have had a problem with that. If Miranda had met someone (like Nyla) and it started off as a friendship and feelings grew I would have said OK I can understand that. But I still would have expected Miranda to tell Steve before anything happened.

[Yeah No]

24 minutes ago, 27bored said:

I guess I just feel like the notion of happiness in general isn’t as simple as it’s being played out here. I think the older you get the more you realize having peace and stability is something to fight for despite your level of happiness. 
 

Because I have to kind of disagree with you that people don’t cheat when they’re happy in their relationships. That’s a factor for sure but you leave an unhappy marriage. Cheating is an act of selfishness, and using the fact that you met someone to help usher you out of your relationship is complete bullshit.

With Miranda, she wasn’t happy, but she wasn’t particularly motivated to try and fix the issues she was having (from what we saw). She fell hard and fell fast for Che it appears because Che represented a way out. 

I couldn't agree more.  It's not even about cheating, it's about monogamy.  Even in open relationships people can be happy and still seek other partners in addition to their spouses or SO's.  Being unhappy is not a necessary prerequisite.  Some people are capable of loving and being with more than one person and not have it be born of dissatisfaction or diminish either relationship.  But not everyone can be that way and I don't think Miranda is one of them, at least not the Miranda we've known for 2 decades.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Miranda from SATC would never agree to that however Miranda from AJLT very well might. She is so gaga for Che I can see Che telling her look this is who I am and either you accept me as I am or this isn't going to work and Miranda might say yes of course whatever you want.   

Oh for sure, but my point was that even if she did say it was OK it wouldn't feel realistic based on the Miranda we know for over 20 years now.  Or even the Miranda they've shown so far in this series.  She's not open to an open relationship with Steve so why would she suddenly be OK with an open relationship with Che?  She may think she is but she's not acting in her right mind right now.  She's acting purely out of lust and feeling and forgetting everything about herself to be OK with being with this person no matter what they ask of her.  But IMO that is unlikely to last.  And even if it did, it still wouldn't feel realistic to me.

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Che is non-binary.

Oh I know, sorry, I misspoke.  I was thinking about Cynthia Nixon's real life and got it confused with the show.  And given the way her life has influenced the show that's a pretty easy thing to do.

[ifionlyknew]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Oh for sure, but my point was that even if she did say it was OK it wouldn't feel realistic based on the Miranda we know for over 20 years now.  Or even the Miranda they've shown so far in this series. 

You are right.  When Miranda commits to someone she expects the same commitment back. 

9 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

She's not open to an open relationship with Steve so why would she suddenly be OK with an open relationship with Che? 

She wasn't open to that because she doesn't want to have anything to do with Steve.  They share a child and probably one day grandchildren.  Steve isn't going to just disappear but Miranda is acting like he is a bag garbage she can put by the curb and not have to deal with again.  

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Here's a quote from Cynthia Nixon's new interview with Entertainment Tonight:

“Even though I’m an executive producer and I got to direct an episode, I am not a writer. And so, that is one of the great privileges of being a writer, that it’s not my job to figure it out, thank god,” Nixon says. “You know, it’s my job to say that doesn’t seem right for my character. But in terms of the amazing writers, we have [been] dreaming things up. They know much better than I do.” 

She has failed miserably at that job.

I’m glad to know she’s not a writer.  I don’t blame Cynthia for Miranda.  

[LiterateDog]

OMG Someone posted this on Reddit about this epi of AJLT and I've been cackling with remembered glee thinking about the original episode. Wouldn't it be great if this is the response Miranda got from Che? I know its not going to happen, but one can always dream. 😂 

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

She wasn't open to that because she doesn't want to have anything to do with Steve.  They share a child and probably one day grandchildren.  Steve isn't going to just disappear but Miranda is acting like he is a bag garbage she can put by the curb and not have to deal with again.  

That may be true but I don't think the Miranda we knew would be able to make the change to being OK with an open relationship no matter who she is involved with.  I think she thinks she is right now but this is one of those things that you either are or you aren't and it's very hard for someone to change that about themselves no matter how much they may want to to be in a relationship with someone.  I feel like she is acting like a desperate teenager with a huge crush on someone.  

Also, the Miranda we knew might actually think about an open relationship with Steve if he were open to it, at least at first.  At least leave the door open to trying to make things work with him while she figures out what she wants.  But as you say, this Miranda is treating him like she just doesn't care about him anymore and doesn't want anything to do with him.  That's another thing I find hard to swallow and not true to her character.

It's never a good idea to jump into any brand new relationship that fast while you're still in one or still married if the goal is to only keep one relationship.  You're not in the position of being rational enough to make that decision.  It looks like she hasn't really thought this through enough and is acting purely on emotion.  She may think she's done with Steve now but that may come back to haunt her if things don't pan out so well with Che.  And right now it looks like there are a lot of reasons it won't pan out with Che.  It's a risky thing to do, and not a risk the Miranda we know would want to make.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, obviously mileage varies, but Miranda and Robert were not engaged. Hell, I don't think they dated long enough to be really serious. Ditto Steve and Debbie. So I don't see those instances as Steve and Miranda cheating.

Right, Miranda and Robert did not declare themselves to be exclusive, did they?

54 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I don’t understand why Carrie and Miranda were so shocked that Charlotte and Harry still have oral sex. WTF? I know they were trying to go for the vibe of the original series, and I know that Carrie and Miranda aren’t the biggest fans of oral (in the “spunky funk” episode, Carrie says it’s not her favorite thing on the menu, but she’ll order it from time to time. Miranda says she only gives head to get it). However, they came off as prudish and rude to Charlotte. What is so unbelievable about a wife giving her husband a blow job?

It's not a prude thing, in my opinion.  It's because Charlotte and Harry have been together for so long that her friends are shocked she's still doing that.  Look at Miranda, she hates her husband more than anything and would rather die than touch him.

[cooper16]

54 minutes ago, 27bored said:

I guess I just feel like the notion of happiness in general isn’t as simple as it’s being played out here. I think the older you get the more you realize having peace and stability is something to fight for despite your level of happiness. 
 

Because I have to kind of disagree with you that people don’t cheat when they’re happy in their relationships. That’s a factor for sure but you leave an unhappy marriage. Cheating is an act of selfishness, and using the fact that you met someone to help usher you out of your relationship is complete bullshit.

With Miranda, she wasn’t happy, but she wasn’t particularly motivated to try and fix the issues she was having (from what we saw). She fell hard and fell fast for Che it appears because Che represented a way out. 

Peace and stability without happiness is something people settle for because they are scared they can't find something more. Miranda wants something more. There are no issues that can be fixed. At the end of the day some people are ok with settling and some aren't. Miranda shouldn't have cheated but there was no "fixing" what she had with Steve. Her mistake iMO was not getting out sooner. 

[luna1122]

21 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Right, Miranda and Robert did not declare themselves to be exclusive, did they?

It's not a prude thing, in my opinion.  It's because Charlotte and Harry have been together for so long that her friends are shocked she's still doing that.  Look at Miranda, she hates her husband more than anything and would rather die than touch him.

Is it supposed to  some kind of weird accepted "fact" that women don't blow their partners after awhile? I mean, we know Miranda didn't (poor Steve) but surely Mr. Big wouldn't have been ok with that, or vice versa for Carrie. Again, I know its a joke, but it feels like one of those old wives takes people for some reason like to believe in. 

I  keep hearing Charlotte's voice in my head from some old SATC ep saying "oh, poor Steve!" and I really expected her to say it again now but no. 

 

17 minutes ago, cooper16 said:

Peace and stability without happiness is something people settle for because they are scared they can't find something more. Miranda wants something more. There are no issues that can be fixed. At the end of the day some people are ok with settling and some aren't. Miranda shouldn't have cheated but there was no "fixing" what she had with Steve. Her mistake iMO was not getting out sooner. 

Agreed, she should have gotten out sooner. And again, i haven't really seen anyone here thinking Miranda should stay in a marriage she doesn't value anymore. Sure, some people are sad about the relationship ending. And yeah, some people would find the kind of comfortable relationship they've had a good thing, and that's ok. And its even okay if its not enough for Miranda and she wants out. But she's handled it all in the most selfish, hateful, tacky, gross way, and that's what most people are objecting to. 

 

[PepSinger]

28 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's not a prude thing, in my opinion.  It's because Charlotte and Harry have been together for so long that her friends are shocked she's still doing that.  Look at Miranda, she hates her husband more than anything and would rather die than touch him.

That’s kind of my point. Just because Miranda hates her husband doesn’t mean that everyone else hates their husbands. It seemed like projecting to me.

[ifionlyknew]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Is it supposed to  some kind of weird accepted "fact" that women don't blow their partners after awhile? I mean, we know Miranda didn't (poor Steve) but surely Mr. Big wouldn't have been ok with that, or vice versa for Carrie. Again, I know its a joke, but it feels like one of those old wives takes people for some reason like to believe in. 

I had a male friend tell me his long term girlfriend refused to give him a blow job anymore.  He said her excuse was she didn't have to.  I guess she really did consider it a job.

[luna1122]

2 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I had a male friend tell me his long term girlfriend refused to give him a blow job anymore.  He said her excuse was she didn't have to.  I guess she really did consider it a job.

Well, I mean, nobody should do anything sexually they aren't comfortable with. But pulling it completely off the menu just cuz you've been together a long time seems unsporting. 

[ifionlyknew]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

But pulling it completely off the menu just cuz you've been together a long time seems unsporting. 

And selfish because usually the other person will still want that particular item for themselves.

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

That’s kind of my point. Just because Miranda hates her husband doesn’t mean that everyone else hates their husbands. It seemed like projecting to me.

I see what you're saying now.  Part of it is Miranda projecting.  I suspect the other part (like on behalf of Carrie) is their old knowledge of "prudish Charlotte" like oh youuuuuu Charlotte youuuuuu do that?  If it was Samantha obviously they wouldn't blink.

[PepSinger]

8 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I had a male friend tell me his long term girlfriend refused to give him a blow job anymore.  He said her excuse was she didn't have to.  I guess she really did consider it a job.

Damn. She said, “I’m retiring.” 😬

[TV Diva Queen]

Im trying so hard to love this series and they just won’t let me. I’m at the point of where it’s not worth fighting with HBO max streaming app anymore. Just not worth it 

[Ms Blue Jay]

48 minutes ago, LiterateDog said:

OMG Someone posted this on Reddit about this epi of AJLT and I've been cackling with remembered glee thinking about the original episode. Wouldn't it be great if this is the response Miranda got from Che? I know its not going to happen, but one can always dream. 😂 

Google Jonathan Safran Foer and Natalie Portman if you want a good laugh.  Samantha is such an icon.

I think that a lot of of us are hoping that Che won't give a fuck about Miranda, but I tend to agree with the poster who said that Cynthia Nixon will not let Miranda be invalidated in this.  I have zero doubts that this entire series will disappoint me.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[PepSinger]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I see what you're saying now.  Part of it is Miranda projecting.  I suspect the other part (like on behalf of Carrie) is their old knowledge of "prudish Charlotte" like oh youuuuuu Charlotte youuuuuu do that?  If it was Samantha obviously they wouldn't blink.

Yeah, they’re operating off super old knowledge. Charlotte has always been game for anything with Harry. It’s one of the first things she said about him to the group.

[SlovakPrincess]

I understand Cynthia Nixon had a later in life realization of her sexual identity (which is great!) but she and Miranda were never similar people and what might've worked for Nixon doesn't work for this character.  (Miranda, for instance, would never have pursued a career as uncertain as acting).  

So while Miranda might well have realized later in life that she was not exclusively heterosexual, and that she no longer wanted to be married to Steve .... the way they are doing it is annoying.   Miranda falling for an arrogant, over-forty pothead podcaster / comedian who doesn't answer text messages for months is eye-rolling.  Miranda would find Che annoying and unserious, and, unlike Miranda's other famous opposites-attract relationship (Steve), Che doesn't seem to want to win over Miranda the way Steve did on SATC.  

Now the writers could have written it as Miranda being simultaneously annoyed by but trying to understand her sexual attraction to Che, and using that attraction as a realization she is over Steve / bisexual and now open to explore with someone with whom she actually has something in common.  There's a lot the writers could do with Che if they stopped trying so hard to make them seem "cool", but Che is not working as a romantic hero when they write them like this, and certainly doesn't make sense for Miranda.

I will say Girls did this much better, with the Peter Scolari character coming out late in life -- he agonized over leaving his marriage and losing the companionship and friendship of his wife, and when he finally made the leap he started dating a nice man who was temperamentally suited to him.   That was actually quite lovely and complex, watching Scolari's character deal with coming out in his fifties, and the guilt of devastating a wife he still loved, and dating again for the first time in decades, and finding a sweet man on a similar journey.  And he was only a guest star in a handful of Girls episodes!

Edited January 21, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[Yeah No]

47 minutes ago, cooper16 said:

Peace and stability without happiness is something people settle for because they are scared they can't find something more. Miranda wants something more. There are no issues that can be fixed. At the end of the day some people are ok with settling and some aren't. Miranda shouldn't have cheated but there was no "fixing" what she had with Steve. Her mistake iMO was not getting out sooner. 

I see both sides of this, but what bothers me is that we're taking it face value that none of her and Steve's issues can be fixed.  Plus I feel like the older I get the more I realize that you're never going to get everything from one person.  You have to decide what's more important to you and in this case the choice couldn't be more stark.  Either she stays and works on the person that has loved and stayed by her, and has been except for one time faithful to her or trades it off for a virtually unknown person that gives her all the excitement she doesn't presently have in her marriage.  But marriage is never going to be as exciting as she perceives whatever she has with Che.  And her relationship with Che is not going to stay as satisfying either.  She is only in the first stages.  It may not be everything she's fantasizing it to be.  At this point it looks ripe for not being all she is fantasizing it to be.  And I don't think Miranda has worked through all of that at all and so I don't think she is ready to just drop her relationship with Steve and call it a day.  This situation looks like it's headed for her realizing a few things and that there is no "escape" from any relationship until you face some things about both relationships and make some decisions.  But that takes time and reflection, more than she has given it so far.  I don't buy that she had already done all the work needed to be ready for a new relationship and to just walk away from Steve, either on her own or with him.  Or that she knows enough about how she really will feel about Che once the infatuation settles.  That's just me and my 41 years of marriage talking.

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I will say Girls did this much better, with the Peter Scolari character coming out late in life -- he agonized over leaving his marriage and losing the companionship and friendship of his wife, and when he finally made the leap he started dating a nice man who was temperamentally suited to him.   That was actually quite lovely and complex, watching Scolari's character deal with coming out in his fifties, and the guilt of devastating a wife he still loved, and dating again for the first time in decades, and finding a sweet man on a similar journey.  And he was only a guest star in a handful of Girls episodes!

Also the beginning of "Grace and Frankie".  That made a lot more sense than this.

[Rai]

7 hours ago, EllenB said:

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Back in those Neanderthal times, people frequently dated more than one person at a time. For teens, a commitment meant officially going steady and announcing it to their friends, and she'd get his class ring to wear on a neck chain or wrapped in yarn to fit her finger. For people out of high school, they could date multiple people until getting engaged to one of them. Unless a couple had gotten engaged, seeing someone else wasn't considered cheating, except by  possessive nutjobs, in which case, better to learn it early. Watch some movies from the 40s and 50s and you'll see the "who'll get engaged?" thing happen a LOT with characters dating several people. I have no idea when things got so retro-puritanical that one date made them a committed couple.

People date to form emotional bonds and investments, which may lead to marriage or some form of life partnership. If one person isn't into the relationship on the same level, then said person needs to say so, not mislead the other. Steve and Miranda both misled their partners, one of whom had actually said "I love you." They didn't handle their emotional responsibilities well.

I realize I probably won't change anyone's mind here, so again, I'll try not to flog this horse too much. But in my mind, Miranda (and Steve!) has hurt a partner in order to pursue someone else in the past. So either she's always been a jerk, or she deserves a little more compassion now is how I look at it. To feel compassion for Miranda is not to exclude feeling compassion for Steve as well. Both these views can mutually exist!

[Jackie14]

As for the Charlotte and Harry bathroom scene, I'm more surprised that they didn't close and lock the door before unzipping the pants. It wasn't like they were in the heat of passion and were too caught up in the moment to think of it. Doesn't matter if they knew that the girls were home or not. We always locked the door when we wanted private time. You just don't want that kind of surprise from anyone.

[libgirl2]

32 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 

 Miranda would find Che annoying and unserious, and, unlike Miranda's other famous opposites-attract relationship (Steve), Che doesn't seem to want to win over Miranda the way Steve did on SATC.  

 

Miranda sure would have. Its like the character has a whole different brain and personality. 

1 hour ago, LiterateDog said:

OMG Someone posted this on Reddit about this epi of AJLT and I've been cackling with remembered glee thinking about the original episode. Wouldn't it be great if this is the response Miranda got from Che? I know its not going to happen, but one can always dream. 😂 

I miss Samantha

[MaggieG]

I just can't handle Miranda when she is with Che. She acts like a lunatic with that insane smile of hers. "I'm in a rom-com!" Barf.

I choose to remember Steve and Miranda the way they were. In the laundry room and on the Brooklyn Bridge. Not this monstrosity. Maybe Steve can call Debbie.

[SunnyBeBe]

20 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I see both sides of this, but what bothers me is that we're taking it face value that none of her and Steve's issues can be fixed.  Plus I feel like the older I get the more I realize that you're never going to get everything from one person.  You have to decide what's more important to you and in this case the choice couldn't be more stark.  Either she stays and works on the person that has loved and stayed by her, and has been except for one time faithful to her or trades it off for a virtually unknown person that gives her all the excitement she doesn't presently have in her marriage.  But marriage is never going to be as exciting as she perceives whatever she has with Che.  And her relationship with Che is not going to stay as satisfying either.  She is only in the first stages.  It may not be everything she's fantasizing it to be.  At this point it looks ripe for not being all she is fantasizing it to be.  And I don't think Miranda has worked through all of that at all and so I don't think she is ready to just drop her relationship with Steve and call it a day.  This situation looks like it's headed for her realizing a few things and that there is no "escape" from any relationship until you face some things about both relationships and make some decisions.  But that takes time and reflection, more than she has given it so far.  I don't buy that she had already done all the work needed to be ready for a new relationship and to just walk away from Steve, either on her own or with him.  Or that she knows enough about how she really will feel about Che once the infatuation settles.  That's just me and my 41 years of marriage talking.

Good points. And, it seems that Miranda’s been  uncharacteristically slayed by the self proclaimed rock star lover, Che.  I’m always suspicious of the person who is always bragging on their sexual prowess, how much others want to have sex with them, how horny they are, etc.   It means more when others say how impressive you  are in bed, not when you say it about yourself. 😆 I envision Che’s theme song is Da Ya Think I’m Sexy by Rod Stewart.  Lol.  And, when Miranda says the sex with Che is off the charts…..it’s just difficult to believe.  I mean, considering how the show portrays Che…..it’s unfortunate.  

[Yeah No]

18 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Good points. And, it seems that Miranda’s been  uncharacteristically slayed by the self proclaimed rock star lover, Che.  I’m always suspicious of the person who is always bragging on their sexual prowess, how much others want to have sex with them, how horny they are, etc.   It means more when others say how impressive you  are in bed, not when you say it about yourself. 😆 I envision Che’s theme song is Da Ya Think I’m Sexy by Rod Stewart.  Lol.  And, when Miranda says the sex with Che is off the charts…..it’s just difficult to believe.  I mean, considering how the show portrays Che…..it’s unfortunate.  

I agree completely.  Plus she only sees that but not whether Che is the sweet person Steve can be when she needs someone to really care about her.  Che may not be that person.  She doesn't even know yet.  Is it worth throwing away something that may be giving her more than she's realizing for someone virtually unknown that may be completely the opposite?  That would be a tough trade off to make.

I think what I'm realizing more and more is how this show attempted to cram too much change into one small season.  The characters don't even have time to digest everything before they get tsunami-ed by it.  Same for the audience.  And the writers and producers may not have realized they were taking on too much.  That's the problem when writing from your own experience.  YOU know how long it took and how much happened in between to make everything make sense, but if that's not conveyed properly to the audience we just end up gobsmacked by it all.

[mstar1125]

53 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I see both sides of this, but what bothers me is that we're taking it face value that none of her and Steve's issues can be fixed.  Plus I feel like the older I get the more I realize that you're never going to get everything from one person.  You have to decide what's more important to you and in this case the choice couldn't be more stark.  Either she stays and works on the person that has loved and stayed by her, and has been except for one time faithful to her or trades it off for a virtually unknown person that gives her all the excitement she doesn't presently have in her marriage.  But marriage is never going to be as exciting as she perceives whatever she has with Che.  And her relationship with Che is not going to stay as satisfying either.  She is only in the first stages.  It may not be everything she's fantasizing it to be.  At this point it looks ripe for not being all she is fantasizing it to be.  And I don't think Miranda has worked through all of that at all and so I don't think she is ready to just drop her relationship with Steve and call it a day.  This situation looks like it's headed for her realizing a few things and that there is no "escape" from any relationship until you face some things about both relationships and make some decisions.  But that takes time and reflection, more than she has given it so far.  I don't buy that she had already done all the work needed to be ready for a new relationship and to just walk away from Steve, either on her own or with him.  Or that she knows enough about how she really will feel about Che once the infatuation settles.  That's just me and my 41 years of marriage talking.

Well said. As Steve noted, this is all about Miranda and Miranda's happiness. He's right in that it has nothing to do with him, really, and never did. She's restless and unhappy, but ultimately Miranda is in charge of her own happiness. She isn't going to find it in Che or any other person. 

I think there's another aspect to Miranda's storyline too. Who are Miranda's friends outside of Carrie and Charlotte? Carrie had Stanny, now she has Seema. They make sense together because they are both older single ladies with similar interests. Charlotte has Anthony and LTW and the mom group at Lily and Rock's school, again friends with similar interests and going through the same stage of life. Up until Miranda met Che and Nya, she had no friend group. They needed to pair Miranda up with someone, but it's a struggle to see what she shares in common with Che (other than they both think Che is amazing with the sex) or Nya (which feels like a much more forced pairing).

I feel like the only way any of the storylines they introduced for Miranda throughout these last 8 episodes (and there have been so many! Che, alcoholism, quitting her job, going back to school, Nya, divorce) will make any sense is if Miranda and Nya end up together romantically. Otherwise, why introduce Nya to the show at all? What purpose does she serve in Miranda's journey? 

Meanwhile, with all the time spent on Miranda's various storylines, I feel like we haven't gotten enough of Carrie or Charlotte. I actually don't even need more Charlotte - her storylines are fine, but also completely neutral and could be pulled out of each episode without changing the overall trajectory of the series. What I'd like to see is more of the Carrie, Anthony, and Seema triad, they seem to have a lot of fun together. Give us more "A divorcee, a widower, and a sexy real estate agent walk into a bar" storylines. 

[SunnyBeBe]

It really is odd to see Miranda take off this way.  I will say that about 15 years ago, I knew a colleague (attorney) whose wife up and left him to follow a certain female pop singer on tour….like a groupie. Lol. I won’t name the singer for privacy reasons.  It wasn’t a love thing though. She had never met the singer. Just got really caught up in the music and the groupie lifestyle. I think she was around 30 something in age.  So, I guess strange things do happen.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

That's true @mstar1125.  Great points. No Anthony this episode.  That's always a mistake.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RedHawk]

55 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I just can't handle Miranda when she is with Che. She acts like a lunatic with that insane smile of hers. "I'm in a rom-com!" Barf.

I choose to remember Steve and Miranda the way they were. In the laundry room and on the Brooklyn Bridge. Not this monstrosity. Maybe Steve can call Debbie.

Sometimes I think Miranda is supposed to seem this goofy and stupidly "in love" because maybe they're setting her up for a big fall. A lot of us are posting about how Miranda should have behaved, especially with Steve, but we all know that people quite often don't behave as they should. This type of middle-aged thing where someone meets someone new and gets all crazy and leaves their spouse or partner -- well, it happens. So they're depicting that, and while we don't think SATC Miranda would have done any of this, apparently AJLT Miranda does. Now I'm wondering if we're going to get Che in a Cleveland hotel with someone else (maybe a man?) and Miranda getting a sharp shock, or will it indeed be a rom-com where Che welcomes her with open arms and Miranda totally is into a new non-trad lifestyle? With these writers I really can't predict. 

[ifionlyknew]

16 minutes ago, mstar1125 said:

As Steve noted, this is all about Miranda and Miranda's happiness. He's right in that it has nothing to do with him, really, and never did. She's restless and unhappy, but ultimately Miranda is in charge of her own happiness. She isn't going to find it in Che or any other person. 

Miranda needs to ask herself if she would be leaving Steve if not for Che. I don't think she would be.

17 minutes ago, mstar1125 said:

I feel like the only way any of the storylines they introduced for Miranda throughout these last 8 episodes (and there have been so many! Che, alcoholism, quitting her job, going back to school, Nya, divorce) will make any sense is if Miranda and Nya end up together romantically. Otherwise, why introduce Nya to the show at all? What purpose does she serve in Miranda's journey? 

This thought has crossed my mind.  Maybe they will do a time jump at the end of the the final episode and we will see Miranda and Nya together.

 

[MicheleinPhilly]

The only positive I took from this episode is that even though Carrie is (presumably) filthy rich, she still uses the public library. 

[CeeBeeGee]

9 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

This type of middle-aged thing where someone meets someone new and gets all crazy and leaves their spouse or partner -- well, it happens.

This happened to someone I used to know--he was a director who worked exclusively with a local community theater group, directed all their shows. His whole family was involved (wife produced, daughters did costumes or something). The whole group was a little cult-y--most of the company had been taught by the director in high school and they all moved on to doing community theater with this guy. I did my one show and moved on to other groups and then years later I ran into someone with the group. They asked me if I'd heard about what had happened--apparently the guy had "met someone" (a woman, muuuuuch younger as the guy was well into his '70s) and just lost his head. Threw away his marriage, threw away everything for her. No fool like an old fool.

[luna1122]

9 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Miranda needs 

This thought has crossed my mind.  Maybe they will do a time jump at the end of the the final episode and we will see Miranda and Nya together.

 

Please, y'all, don't give them any ideas. 

Why would Nya want to be with Miranda? Nya is straight and with a sweet, hot guy. She's also very hot. 

Miranda has become a creepy, frizzy haired Karen (sorry to the actual Karens who never deserved to have their name besmirched) who's selfish, disloyal, weird and vaguely stupid. I don't know what anyone would see in her anymore. 

[RedHawk]

29 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Miranda needs to ask herself if she would be leaving Steve if not for Che. I don't think she would be.

Remember that Miranda has been so unhappy that she was day-drinking on the sly. So I think we could have had a story line where Miranda eventually admits to herself that she is deeply unhappy and needs to change her life completely, and that includes leaving Steve in order to live alone. Maybe it could have included her getting a jolt from realizing that Che excited her sexually (shotgunning the joint at the bar) in a way Steve no longer does. She might have explored that awakened side of herself by attending Che's shows and after parties and going to a lesbian bar. We'd still end up with her leaving Steve yet it would be the Miranda of SATC leaving Steve, taking into account his feelings and Brady's, the complexities of breaking apart your household, and the sadness of realizing a 20-year relationship is just over. 

[chocolatine]

37 minutes ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

The only positive I took from this episode is that even though Carrie is (presumably) filthy rich, she still uses the public library. 

She said on the original show (or was it the first movie) that she likes the smell of library books.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Movie, that's why she wanted to get married there.

[monagatuna]

I thought this was one of the better episodes. Best of a bad bunch, really, but here we go.

I was surprised that the episode made me like Carrie more than the others*, when she was helping Lily. I was really hoping she'd treat Lily to some of her old clothes. When we saw Lily's hidden Instagram account, and heard Carrie assure Charlotte that Lily was just "figuring herself out," I thought we were going to end up seeing Lily become a fashion Instagrammer and some of Carrie's vintage stuff--some of which would fit Lily and look great on her--would end up on it. I still hope we see more of the clothing--Carrie's clothes were always the main attraction for me in the series AND the movies.

*that is, until she threw her lit cigarette into the street. I will never understand why so many smokers think it's okay to light garbage on fire and then throw it wherever. This is weird timing too, since we just had to put out a lit cigarette in our driveway upon coming home last night, and we live in a place where there are no smokers, and our driveway is pretty far from the street. I have no idea where it came from, but it was super annoying to have to douse someone's fiery garbage in our driveway, then come home to watch a show where a character does the exact same thing.

Also LOL at her only just noticing how cigarette smoke stinks up her clothes--I will say, though, I've heard of smokers quitting and then suddenly noticing they can smell and taste again. Maybe her senses of smell and taste have come back over the years since she's quit.

I'll never criticize someone for leaving a marriage (or job, or friendship, or family or housing situation) that's making them unhappy, but Miranda really shit the bed on this one. If you've ever been in a relationship where you feel belittled and like your partner always thinks they can do better than you, and you can never ever do anything right, it's exhausting. Steve says he doesn't have the strength to rally for them again, and I hope he never tries. He deserves better. I do believe Miranda was always settling for him and their life together, but she sure never let him forget that. It's one thing to feel like you've been dragged into a marriage, parenthood, or life you didn't want; it's quite another to blame the other person for your unhappiness when you won't do anything about it. She wasn't forced into parenthood with him--SHE chose to have the kid. She wasn't forced into marriage with him--SHE proposed. She wasn't forced into Brooklyn--she went to see the house, hated it, and then found a way to love it. I get feeling dissatisfied with life--I am privileged to have a high paying corporate job, a great partner, excellent health, and all around am living the life I always wanted and even I feel trapped sometimes--but she built her cage around herself, no one locked her in. If she was gonna blow up her life, she could've at least done it with a smidge of integrity.

In the real world, she'd get to Cleveland, find Che in the arms of another person, freak out, and Che would bring her back to reality with "I told you I couldn't give you traditional!" She'd either have to learn to navigate nonmonogamy, run back to Steve who would have at least grown a tiny spine and told her where to go, or be alone and try to figure out ourtime.com. I know we're not going to get that satisfaction, but it's what she deserves.

I do still find Che fiercely hot, and Sara Ramirez is doing the best they can with a shitty script--the sputtering and trying to find their place in their speech when they saw Miranda trying to dart out of the rally was really well done. (I didn't realize SR was NB, my apologies for referring to them as "she/her" in other threads.) I wouldn't blow up my life for them, but I do enjoy looking at them. 

Charlotte's scenes were all pretty true to Charlotte. She's always been a little neurotic, she and Harry have always had an enviable sex life, and her over-mothering of her kids is pretty Charlotte. The delight on her poor botched face when he asked for a beej was really sweet. And I am loving some Lily time. I love that she stands up for herself but isn't a jerk, and I love that she stands up for Rock too. The chemistry of this family, combined with Carrie's clothing nostalgia, makes up for a lot of mess in this series.

For the rest of the episodes I'll just have myself a little alternate reality where Miranda experiences the heartache that would make her storyline actually realistic.