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S01.E08: Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered


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48 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

I'll never criticize someone for leaving a marriage (or job, or friendship, or family or housing situation) that's making them unhappy, but Miranda really shit the bed on this one. If you've ever been in a relationship where you feel belittled and like your partner always thinks they can do better than you, and you can never ever do anything right, it's exhausting. Steve says he doesn't have the strength to rally for them again, and I hope he never tries. He deserves better. I do believe Miranda was always settling for him and their life together, but she sure never let him forget that. It's one thing to feel like you've been dragged into a marriage, parenthood, or life you didn't want; it's quite another to blame the other person for your unhappiness when you won't do anything about it. She wasn't forced into parenthood with him--SHE chose to have the kid. She wasn't forced into marriage with him--SHE proposed. She wasn't forced into Brooklyn--she went to see the house, hated it, and then found a way to love it. I get feeling dissatisfied with life--I am privileged to have a high paying corporate job, a great partner, excellent health, and all around am living the life I always wanted and even I feel trapped sometimes--but she built her cage around herself, no one locked her in. If she was gonna blow up her life, she could've at least done it with a smidge of integrity.

Thank you for this ENTIRE PARAGRAPH.

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3 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

The only positive I took from this episode is that even though Carrie is (presumably) filthy rich, she still uses the public library. 

Lol! My sister isn’t filthy rich, but she makes great money and spends a lot on almost everything except books. She’s a library girl all the way. 

Didn’t Carrie once say she loved the smell of old library books?

edited: just got to post that mentioned that! 

Edited by RealHousewife
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38 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Lol! My sister isn’t filthy rich, but she makes great money and spends a lot on almost everything except books. She’s a library girl all the way. 

Didn’t Carrie once say she loved the smell of old library books?

Carrie's home is full of clothes and Big's records! Aside from a couple of small shelves she has no space for books. ;-) 

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3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It really is odd to see Miranda take off this way.  I will say that about 15 years ago, I knew a colleague (attorney) whose wife up and left him to follow a certain female pop singer on tour….like a groupie. Lol. I won’t name the singer for privacy reasons.  It wasn’t a love thing though. She had never met the singer. Just got really caught up in the music and the groupie lifestyle. I think she was around 30 something in age.  So, I guess strange things do happen.  

Okay you’ve gotta spill the tea. Britney, Christina, or Beyonce…which one was it? 

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3 hours ago, mstar1125 said:

Meanwhile, with all the time spent on Miranda's various storylines, I feel like we haven't gotten enough of Carrie or Charlotte. I actually don't even need more Charlotte - her storylines are fine, but also completely neutral and could be pulled out of each episode without changing the overall trajectory of the series. What I'd like to see is more of the Carrie, Anthony, and Seema triad, they seem to have a lot of fun together. Give us more "A divorcee, a widower, and a sexy real estate agent walk into a bar" storylines. 

It doesn't feel like it's so much about a group of friends anymore.  With the exception of Miranda and Charlotte tag teaming to support Carrie after Big's death the stories have seemed disjointed.  Throwing in three new featured "friends of" hasn't helped either.  They always had their separate stories, but it always came back to the core group of women being a united force and focal point.  Not so much now.  

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

A lot of us are posting about how Miranda should have behaved, especially with Steve, but we all know that people quite often don't behave as they should. 

This Miranda bears little semblance to SATC Miranda though who was studied, reasonable, and responsible.  Would old Miranda have allowed herself to be such a floor mat when dealing with her son and his girlfriend?  

1 hour ago, monagatuna said:

but she built her cage around herself, no one locked her in. If she was gonna blow up her life, she could've at least done it with a smidge of integrity.

Exactly!  Wasn't it her integrity that drove her to quit her job and  return to school to work toward a degree which would allow her to essentially do what she felt would be the right thing?  Perhaps Steve is considered acceptable collateral damage being he is a white male squeaking in at the tail end of the Baby Boomer era.  She didn't seem to have any regrets or feelings about Steve when she was panting after Che.  Her only concern seemed to be regarding her wants and needs and none for her long term partner whose greatest sin appears to be that he became older and content.  Miss performative integrity turns out to be a selfish, self-centered asshole.  

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4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Sometimes I think Miranda is supposed to seem this goofy and stupidly "in love" because maybe they're setting her up for a big fall. 

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking and posting trying to figure out which way the writers are going with this.  It feels like it's either going to be one or the other - that she ends up with Che or that she finds out Che is not who she thinks they are or is not for her.  She may not be able to handle Che with other people or just not fit into their lifestyle.  I know which one most of us here would pick if we had the choice, LOL.

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Remember that Miranda has been so unhappy that she was day-drinking on the sly. So I think we could have had a story line where Miranda eventually admits to herself that she is deeply unhappy and needs to change her life completely, and that includes leaving Steve in order to live alone. Maybe it could have included her getting a jolt from realizing that Che excited her sexually (shotgunning the joint at the bar) in a way Steve no longer does. She might have explored that awakened side of herself by attending Che's shows and after parties and going to a lesbian bar. We'd still end up with her leaving Steve yet it would be the Miranda of SATC leaving Steve, taking into account his feelings and Brady's, the complexities of breaking apart your household, and the sadness of realizing a 20-year relationship is just over. 

This would have been the way they should have handled it instead of trying to cram 3 years worth of big life changes into 10 episodes.  That's exactly what I would have expected, not what they did. Did they think they were only going to get one season and wanted to make the most of it?  But even if so they should have known it was too much and handled it differently.

Edited by Yeah No
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32 minutes ago, ichbin said:

Perhaps Steve is considered acceptable collateral damage being he is a white male squeaking in at the tail end of the Baby Boomer era. 

Oh yeah, I'm like a broken record with suggesting this already.  I can't help but think that.  

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4 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone else feel sorry for Sara Ramirez? I don’t care for Che much either, but it must feel awful having your character universally hated like that. I’m sure they’re just doing their best with this role. 

I do. Sara is a good actor. They can certainly bring swagger. Che could’ve been written A LOT better! For example- they could’ve had Miranda INSINUATE she was in an open marriage (or separated) and then Che’s response at the rally could’ve make a lot more sense. 
 

The could’ve had Che & Miranda kiss after the comedy show, and meet up later, rather than Che coming to Carrie’s apartment post surgery and being SO inappropriate. 

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Just now, Scarlett45 said:

I do. Sara is a good actor. They can certainly bring swagger. Che could’ve been written A LOT better! For example- they could’ve had Miranda INSINUATE she was in an open marriage (or separated) and then Che’s response at the rally could’ve make a lot more sense. 
 

The could’ve had Che & Miranda kiss after the comedy show, and meet up later, rather than Che coming to Carrie’s apartment post surgery and being SO inappropriate. 

Yes! That would have been so much better. 

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31 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone else feel sorry for Sara Ramirez? I don’t care for Che much either, but it must feel awful having your character universally hated like that. I’m sure they’re just doing their best with this role. 

I thought I hated Che Diaz, but I don't know if I hate Che Diaz.  I do know that I hate Miranda.  This episode went really far in trying to redeem/retcon Che.  Miranda is scum though, that's my locked opinion!  

I think the REAL feeling online about Che is more of........... mockery.  Like, Che is supposed to be young and hip (Che is Gen X.  That's not old, but why are you pretending Gen X people act like that?). Che is supposed to be a comedian (We haven't heard Che say anything funny).  Che is supposed to be cool (Che smokes pot.  That was cool when we were teenagers I guess?  Now it's pretty damn mainstream?). Che is supposed to be irresistibly sexy (Fine, some people find Sara Ramirez sexy!  That's great!  But who acts the way Miranda does?  The horrible way she treated her husband?  Not the Miranda we know!  We are justified in hating this storyline!)

The worst thing about Che was just mentioned - the way Che fucked Miranda when Carrie was pissing herself, and then the next episode with the dream sequences that made most of us jump and scream like Regina Hall in "Scary Movie".  IT'S NOT HOT.  NOT ALL OF US THINK THIS IS HOT.  Remorseless, relentless cruel adultery is not the empowering, romantic thing these writers think it is.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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15 hours ago, Rai said:

To @FilmTVGeek80's point about how Robert got to yell at Miranda in the next episode, I mean, yeah, he told her he loved her, and she gave him every indication that she was on that road too. Poor Debbie didn't even get to have any screen time with her hurt. Steve and Miranda hurt other people to get what they wanted after misleading their respective partners. It was accepted as being totally cool on the show and by the audience, so that's why I'm surprised at how angry people are at Miranda now.

 

5 hours ago, Rai said:

People date to form emotional bonds and investments, which may lead to marriage or some form of life partnership. If one person isn't into the relationship on the same level, then said person needs to say so, not mislead the other. Steve and Miranda both misled their partners, one of whom had actually said "I love you." They didn't handle their emotional responsibilities well.

I realize I probably won't change anyone's mind here, so again, I'll try not to flog this horse too much. But in my mind, Miranda (and Steve!) has hurt a partner in order to pursue someone else in the past. So either she's always been a jerk, or she deserves a little more compassion now is how I look at it. To feel compassion for Miranda is not to exclude feeling compassion for Steve as well. Both these views can mutually exist!

I think there is a difference between being emotionally unfaithful and being physically and emotionally unfaithful the way Miranda has been all season. One is categorically worse IMO, especially since intent matters. Steve and Miranda never meant to hurt Robert or Debbie and felt bad about it afterward. Miranda has been carrying on behind Steve's back with no regard to his feelings at all and even after breaking his heart still doesn't care. That was my point. Plus, I don't think Steve and Miranda back then were having an emotional affair. I think her confession in One caught both of them off guard. They weren't stringing Robert and Debbie along until something better came. They both thought they had moved on, but it turned out they hadn't.

I'll just say for myself that this is not simply about Miranda hurting Steve. It's the way she's gone about this whole thing. What is there to feel compassion for her about? That she was unhappy in her marriage? Lots of people are unhappy in their marriages and manage to get out of them without being heartless assholes who treat their partner like gum on the bottom of their shoe. Miranda deserves no compassion and I have none for her.

 

7 hours ago, cooper16 said:

Peace and stability without happiness is something people settle for because they are scared they can't find something more. Miranda wants something more. There are no issues that can be fixed. At the end of the day some people are ok with settling and some aren't. Miranda shouldn't have cheated but there was no "fixing" what she had with Steve. Her mistake iMO was not getting out sooner. 

Like someone else said, I don't buy that their marriage was so unfixable that there was no point in even trying. What's the point of getting married, making vows like "for better or worse" if you're not going to put in the work and leave so easily? I get that marriages break apart and sometimes marriages do have insurmountable problems, but Miranda didn't even try ( and no that finger bang incident doesn't count.) Being "unhappy" is way too vague. She wanted more what? More excitement? More energy? Again, she didn't give Steve the option of even trying to see if he could give her that. She was unhappy, but didn't say anything to him. 

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Just now, FilmTVGeek80 said:

 

I think there is a difference between being emotionally unfaithful and being physically and emotionally unfaithful the way Miranda has been all season. One is categorically worse IMO, especially since intent matters. Steve and Miranda never meant to hurt Robert or Debbie and felt bad about it afterward. Miranda has been carrying on behind Steve's back with no regard to his feelings at all and even after breaking his heart still doesn't care. That was my point. Plus, I don't think Steve and Miranda back then were having an emotional affair. I think her confession in One caught both of them off guard. They weren't stringing Robert and Debbie along until something better came. They both thought they had moved on, but it turned out they hadn't.

I'll just say for myself that this is not simply about Miranda hurting Steve. It's the way she's gone about this whole thing. What is there to feel compassion for her about? That she was unhappy in her marriage? Lots of people are unhappy in their marriages and manage to get out of them without being heartless assholes who treat their partner like gum on the bottom of their shoe. Miranda deserves no compassion and I have none for her.

 

Like someone else said, I don't buy that their marriage was so unfixable that there was no point in even trying. What's the point of getting married, making vows like "for better or worse" if you're not going to put in the work and leave so easily? I get that marriages break apart and sometimes marriages do have insurmountable problems, but Miranda didn't even try ( and no that finger bang incident doesn't count.) Being "unhappy" is way too vague. She wanted more what? More excitement? More energy? Again, she didn't give Steve the option of even trying to see if he could give her that. She was unhappy, but didn't say anything to him. 

💯 

Isn’t it supposed to be in sickness and health? For Miranda it’s until the the passion is gone? And don’t even bother trying to bring excitement back? Steve is a kind person. He’s been respectful of her since the one time he cheated on her many years ago. He’s a good guy, no drama, loves his wife and son. This isn’t a “I just can’t do it anymore” marriage. Miranda could have tried get their marriage to a place that was more happy and fulfilling for her, but she didn’t even try. I understand life is short and people fall out of love, but handle it the right way. End your marriage and then pursue other people. 

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There was no need for Miranda to hurt Steve even more by telling him "There's someone else".  Steve wasn't locking her in a cage, imprisoning her.  YOU OWE STEVE THE EXPLANATION THAT YOU'RE LEAVING.  You don't have to add insult to injury by saying you fell for someone else.  The fact that you're unhappy and leaving is already a HUGE shock, it's already hard enough.  At least let Steve sit with that, and if he wants to discuss it, and express his own opinion about it, guess what, he's entitled to!  She really didn't need to do that.

And for her to be all proud of herself in the car, calling Carrie.  Disgusting.  I want to vomit like Carrie and Peter (?) on their date.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

She said on the original show (or was it the first movie) that she likes the smell of library books.

IIRC it was in awful SATC movie#1 when Carrie  was looking for a place to get married i.e. ascend a  staircase dramatic in scale  in that Vivienne Westwood gown that we first heard  mention of her  having always loved the smell of old library books?

Other than that, in the series her own books are the only books I ever saw Carrie have her hands on or express any interest in.  Then when  she met  fellow writer Berger  he demanded to know what she thought of his.

...not buying Carrie frequently taking out library books for some reason. We only saw her pour over fashion magazines. She referenced fashion magazines and read aloud from one to the Russian. Don't recall any book quotes or  mentions.

2 hours ago, 27bored said:

Okay you’ve gotta spill the tea. Britney, Christina, or Beyonce…which one was it? 

 

Alannis popped into my mind.

Edited by T Summer
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32 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

There was no need for Miranda to hurt Steve even more by telling him "There's someone else".

That really bothered me. It seemed cruel. There was no need to hurt him. Leave him some dignity.

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On 1/20/2022 at 2:21 PM, Hana Chan said:

Exactly. And it's laughable that when Che tells her that they are not "traditional" and aren't looking for a monogamous, serious relationship, Miranda just goes along, nodding her head like an idiot. 

Miranda's hearing what she wants to hear. When Che says, "I can't give you anything traditional," probably what's going through Miranda's head is, "They mean because they're involved in so many different activities and travel around performing, so we won't be settling down and coming home to each other every night. Fine with me, because I had that and it was boring!" I think we know what's coming. 

Edited by NotMySekrit2Tell
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6 minutes ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Miranda's hearing what she wants to hear. When Che says, "I can't give you anything traditional," probably what's going through Miranda's head is, "They mean because they're involved in so many different activities and travel around performing, so we won't be settling down and coming home to each other every night. Fine with me, because I had that and it was boring!" I think we know what's coming. 

It certainly seems that way.

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2 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone else feel sorry for Sara Ramirez? I don’t care for Che much either, but it must feel awful having your character universally hated like that. I’m sure they’re just doing their best with this role. 

I don't. They mentioned in an interview that they're proud of playing a non-binary character. Presumably they were given some idea of what their character's story would be before they accepted the role, so they knew what to expect. And I haven't seen them in anything high-profile since they left Grey's Anatomy several years ago, so I'm sure they were happy to be part of a reboot of one of the most iconic TV shows of all time.

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59 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

There was no need for Miranda to hurt Steve even more by telling him "There's someone else".  Steve wasn't locking her in a cage, imprisoning her.  YOU OWE STEVE THE EXPLANATION THAT YOU'RE LEAVING.  You don't have to add insult to injury by saying you fell for someone else.  The fact that you're unhappy and leaving is already a HUGE shock, it's already hard enough.  At least let Steve sit with that, and if he wants to discuss it, and express his own opinion about it, guess what, he's entitled to!  She really didn't need to do that.

Steve asked her what she thought was "out there" so she told him she had already met someone. If she didn't admit it and he found out a week or a month later that she was already with someone, he would know she had lied or at least withheld info. It's all painful, might as well tell him the full truth in the first conversation.

We keep posting about her behavior and for me it all goes back to her volcanic anger when he confessed he'd had a one-night stand (in the first movie). She was so angry with him, never gave him a chance to explain his feelings or really express the regret he seemed to have for having done it and for hurting her. She just cut him off. And yet, it seemed like she had turned him down sexually for a while (remember "let's just get it over with"?) and had not made an effort to talk to him or work with him on re-igniting the spark. Now she's kind of blaming him for their spark going out and acting like it's all perfectly fine that she went with someone else without even trying to talk to him about her unhappiness.

Edited by RedHawk
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27 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

We keep posting about her behavior and for me it all goes back to her volcanic anger when he confessed he'd had a one-night stand (in the first movie). She was so angry with him, never gave him a chance to explain his feelings or really express the regret he seemed to have for having done it and for hurting her. She just cut him off. And yet, it seemed like she had turned him down sexually for a while (remember "let's just get it over with"?) and had not made an effort to talk to him or work with him on re-igniting the spark. Now she's kind of blaming him for their spark going out and acting like it's all perfectly fine that she went with someone else without even trying to talk to him about her unhappiness.

Miranda just comes across really selfish. Steve said he was never good enough, and maybe it's the attitude of "you're lucky to have me, so things must be my way."

If the last thing on Miranda's mind is sex, sorry Steve. No sexy time for you for half a year, and just "get it over with" if you finally think you'll make love to your wife. Did Miranda even cuddle or hug Steve? I don't have a Samantha Jones appetite, and physical touch is probably my last love language, but how the heck is that healthy? Human beings need physical affection, and (with exceptions) a healthy marriage should include sex. 

If Miranda's got more time on her hands and is tired of routine, once again-sorry Steve. You're just not as exciting as Che. Miranda is done with you now. Consider yourself lucky you were with Miranda as long as you were. Find someone else to watch TV and eat ice cream with. It's no longer good enough for Miranda. She wants excitement! Like getting finger-banged by her friend's boss within her friend's sight while she's supposed to be looking after said friend. Hot stuff!

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3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The could’ve had Che & Miranda kiss after the comedy show, and meet up later, rather than Che coming to Carrie’s apartment post surgery and being SO inappropriate. 

To choose that time and place made both characters appear super disrespectful and selfish. The fact that the actors/characters are in the 40's and 50's made it seem even worse, not because they're old but because at those ages they should know and do better.  

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2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

T Summer nailed it upthread.  That’s a pretty good guess!

Don't worry, we'll keep it to ourselves ;)

 

Has anyone noted any info on how Steve's bar is doing? I wonder if it's barely staying afloat after the pandemic or  if he's puling a good living out of it? Does he have health insurance? A retirement account?

How long has Miranda been not working as an attorney? Did she take a  short leave of absence to do this Law Masters? Could she end up paying him spousal support after they divorce?

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Miranda: "I didn't blame him or make him feel bad!"

O rly? Cause that is not the conversation I saw. 

I'm compiling a list of the writers seemingly fighting back on criticisms of this show.

This episode:

Che claiming 'good guy' status by acting clueless that Miranda was not in an open marriage and saying they loved her.

Addressing the criticism of Carrie's return to smoking by her saying she sticks to one a day and wears bandanas and gloves (some people in this very forum have discussed how her hair and hands must reek).

Miranda talking about acting old

Steve: We are old

Miranda: We're 55. That's not old.

Though Carrie usually annoys me by being a diva, in this episode she annoyed me by being apologetic for being reasonable.

And I wish Charlotte had gone ahead with the talk with her daughter. She's 15. 15 year olds are usually thinking about sex in one way or another. She still needs to hear these things. But the brief talk she did have when she assured Lily that she wasn't shaming her was good.

 

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Miranda acts like such an idiot around Che. She was NEVER like this on the original show. She's embarrassed by Steve? Well I'm embarrassed by her! Seriously, her idiotic behavior is cringeworthy.

All she heard from him was him saying he wants her to be happy. That's all she got out of that conversation. What a selfish asshole. 

Why does Brady barely exist on this show compared to Charlotte's kids? Is it really that hard to write interaction between a woman and her son, compared to a daughter? Because I am convinced whoever's writing this shit has no idea what to have him do or say because he's a boy. That's why Luisa exists at all- because she's a girl and then if they have to have her interact with Miranda for any reason, it's so they can have it be her instead of Brady. 

Miranda didn't think to tell him she's divorcing his dad for no reason?

Edited by ruby24
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16 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Miranda acts like such an idiot around Che. She was NEVER like this on the original show. She's embarrassed by Steve? Well I'm embarrassed by her! Seriously, her idiotic behavior is cringeworthy.

There was that time when she thought Robert was harassing she and Steve because he was crazy in love with her, and that turned out very much not to be the case. 

Quote

And I haven't seen them in anything high-profile since they left Grey's Anatomy several years ago, so I'm sure they were happy to be part of a reboot of one of the most iconic TV shows of all time.

Ramirez starred for a couple of seasons on Madam Secretary (the CBS show starring Tea Leoni) after leaving Grey's Anatomy. 

 

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've loved SR ever since I saw them on Broadway in Spamalot. Four times. They have an amazing set of pipes and I wish that they would do something that would involve singing in the future. But I do guess that after they came out as nonbinary that acting jobs are not as forthcoming as they had in the past. Which is a real shame, and at first I was excited that they would get to play a nonbinary character in a high profile show.

But then the show turned out to be awful and Che is the most obnoxious character of the bunch (though Miranda is currently beating them out for being gross). Which is a real shame because it's not taking advantage of SR's talents, and it's likely to tamp down on other opportunities to have characters who don't fit the usual gender norms featured so prominently. 

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Getting this out of the way - SJP was really pretty in this episode.

But now - here I am again sounding like a broken record making the same complaint every week - why at 55, is Carrie phoning a friend on how to deal with some noisy neighbors on her stoop as if she is still at the age where she's too timid and mousey to speak up because she can't handle a little bit of confrontation? Or worse, why does she feel like she has something to prove, that she's still young and cool enough to "stay up late too"? How is she able to tolerate even ONE night of putting up with that noise when she is a multimillionaire with tons of resources to either live in another place, or stay in a hotel for the night if she needed to? Where's her agency when it comes to being practical, geez.

Also, this happened -

Miranda : "I'm getting a divorce."

*crickets*

Charlotte : "I almost gave my husband a blowjob."

Everyone : "OMGGGGG!"

And also, Lily storming out of the restaurant, leaving her unlocked phone in her mother's hands.

Edited by Roccos Brother
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Quote

Steve: We are old

Miranda: We're 55. That's not old.

Finally! Someone acknowledged that 55 is not old.

I thought it was funny that the first page of this thread is so much criticism about Carrie’s ugly outfit (kerchief, plastic gloves, gingham dress), going on and on about how the SATC fashion gods have lost their minds. Then the actual scene airs and there’s a perfectly logical explanation (whether you agree with it or not, it’s a logical explanation). 

And yes, many smokers have no idea how much they stink until they quit. Smokers have bad breath, they have smelly hair and hands and clothes, they litter their butts all over the place, they waste a ridiculous amount of money every year, their need to smoke takes up an inordinate amount of the workday, and they’re a drain on the healthcare system. And yet, few of them realize it until they quit. So Carrie realizing that she didn’t want to stink up her beautiful clothes with her one daily cigarette is on the nose (heh) to me.

I liked this episode for several reasons: 

- Che calling out Miranda for cheating; it’s not on Che to navigate the morality of Miranda’s marriage. 

- Everything with Charlotte and Harry and Lily. I think their entire arc in this series is going well. Except for Kristen Davis’s unfortunate duck lips. She’s so naturally beautiful I don’t know what she sees in the mirror to make her choose those godawful fillers.

- Carrie and the clothes and her very natural “auntie” relationship with Lily. It was lovely to see.

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On 1/20/2022 at 4:13 PM, TV is my friend said:

What's funny is that I have no recollection of that, and I don't remember Charlotte practicing on a banana.  What I do remember is Charlotte breaking up with a guy because she didn't want to be the "up the butt girl," because men never marry the "up the butt girl."

64715ce3926c66b902e76e24d0244df7

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17 hours ago, cooper16 said:

This is where we differ, people don't cheat when they are happy with their partners. I get that for men, people love to sell their cheating as just them needing sex because as a society we excuse men for their nonsense all the time and it makes it easier for women to stay in bad situations since they can justify their partners betrayal as "just sex" (which is so embarrassing IMO).

People do cheat when they're otherwise happy.  They cheat when they want "more." They cheat when they want to add but not subtract.  They like having the home life but they miss that new relationship energy.  And some people can't deal with normal changes in relationships. 

It's a rush to be wanted.  And whatever is making Miranda unhappy, being with Che is providing a rush that is likely keeping her away from discovering what's really wrong. 

But it's so insulting to put that on Steve when Miranda was a TV watching fool when they got together. And now it's so beneath her?

14 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

And selfish because usually the other person will still want that particular item for themselves.

Ha.  Or sometimes people take oral off the table once their partner stops providing it.

14 hours ago, Rai said:

People date to form emotional bonds and investments, which may lead to marriage or some form of life partnership. If one person isn't into the relationship on the same level, then said person needs to say so, not mislead the other. Steve and Miranda both misled their partners, one of whom had actually said "I love you." They didn't handle their emotional responsibilities well.

I think emotional cheating is usually the "everything but the sex" part of an affair.  Romantic energy is being put into someone who is not a partner. They act like they're together. Steve and Miranda weren't doing that at the time.  They had broken up, had a baby and were co-parenting.  They didn't act like they were longing to be together. Both were focused on developing the relationships they were in. 

Then they had an epiphany that they actually still loved one another.  Once they had that realization, they ended their other relationships to restart building a relationship. Their other partners got hurt because getting dumped hurts but they were still in the "might work/might not" part of their relationship.

They were trying with their other relationships.  Miranda isn't that doing that here.  She's acting like she's being held captive by her marriage instead of honoring the commitments she made with him. 

14 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I just can't handle Miranda when she is with Che. She acts like a lunatic with that insane smile of hers. "I'm in a rom-com!" Barf.

The way this story has gone is so infuriating but there's still an interesting place to go with the story. I've heard that sometimes people who come out later in life or transition go through a period that resembles adolescence and all the lack of sophistication that comes with it.

It'd be interesting to explore that angle but they'd have to acknowledge that Miranda is self-centered and not cool.  Or edgy.

Edited by Irlandesa
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9 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

've loved SR ever since I saw them on Broadway in Spamalot. Four times. They have an amazing set of pipes and I wish that they would do something that would involve singing in the future. But I do guess that after they came out as nonbinary that acting jobs are not as forthcoming as they had in the past. Which is a real shame, and at first I was excited that they would get to play a nonbinary character in a high profile show.

But then the show turned out to be awful and Che is the most obnoxious character of the bunch (though Miranda is currently beating them out for being gross). Which is a real shame because it's not taking advantage of SR's talents, and it's likely to tamp down on other opportunities to have characters who don't fit the usual gender norms featured so prominently. 

This might be the worst part about all of this ... the first (one of the first?) high profile non-binary characters on TV and the writing portrays them not as a well-rounded, fully fleshed out person with needs, desires, cares and concerns, but someone who's entire job is to constantly talk about "wokeness" and is there to be cool, non-committal and to coax (in Miranda's case, somewhat aggressively) someone else along their sexual exploration journey.   I can't imagine this is helpful to non-binary representation.  

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8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The way this story has gone is so infuriating but there's still an interesting place to go with the story. I've heard that sometimes people who come out later in life or transition go through a period that resembles adolescence and all the lack of sophistication that comes with it.

It'd be interesting to explore that angle but they'd have to acknowledge that Miranda is self-centered and not cool.  Or edgy.

Oh, yes. I knew someone who had a coming-out experience well past 50, after being married and having children, like Miranda. I didn't know then that the "second adolescence" phase was a common thing, and I definitely saw it. The darkest fringe was things like borderline harassing attractive wait staff and thinking it was being "cute" and "liberated," but it was a whole lack of awareness.

I think the mindset is something like "Everything makes sense now and I'm not hiding who I am anymore; therefore, I can act on all of my impulses."

It would be an interesting story to explore, but...well, you know. AJLT! Not the greatest track record so far.

Edited by NotMySekrit2Tell
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Like someone else said, I don't buy that their marriage was so unfixable that there was no point in even trying. What's the point of getting married, making vows like "for better or worse" if you're not going to put in the work and leave so easily? I get that marriages break apart and sometimes marriages do have insurmountable problems, but Miranda didn't even try ( and no that finger bang incident doesn't count.) Being "unhappy" is way too vague. She wanted more what? More excitement? More energy? Again, she didn't give Steve the option of even trying to see if he could give her that. She was unhappy, but didn't say anything to him. 

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Isn’t it supposed to be in sickness and health? For Miranda it’s until the the passion is gone? And don’t even bother trying to bring excitement back? Steve is a kind person. He’s been respectful of her since the one time he cheated on her many years ago. He’s a good guy, no drama, loves his wife and son. This isn’t a “I just can’t do it anymore” marriage. Miranda could have tried get their marriage to a place that was more happy and fulfilling for her, but she didn’t even try. I understand life is short and people fall out of love, but handle it the right way. End your marriage and then pursue other people. 

With the new Masters, the day drinking creeping up on her, etc, they have shown that Miranda was unhappy and searching for something. Even Brady and his girlfriend acting like the house was their love den (although played more for laughs) was kind of an admission she was "stuck". I'm so disappointed with Miranda and how little she seems to think about Steve's feelings, but the writers did put other things there, the execution just hasn't been great vis a vis Che.

It's hard to give credit to Miranda right now but at the very least she didn't try to deflect and make Steve feel he's somehow to blame. She didn't suddenly pull out of mothballs old issues they had or pull a "you cheated once too...". She's smart enough to know the two situations are not the same and that her unhappiness is not something Steve is actively doing to her. Many people think happy, non-dramatic contentment is the end game.

As far as the Che aspect. I'll admit this here: my Fall 2020 has been a rollercoaster and I'm the Steve in the situation. For me learning about "Che" (no nonbinary or new sexual orientation surprises in my case though) actually helped me immensely. For one month I was just utterly confused as the only time the word "divorce" had come up between us? In a total joking manner just like Steve did! Come home tipsy from happy hour with coworkers that went too long? "Are we getting a divorce? Sorry! haha". Then suddenly some older issues were being brought up as if they happened last month not two years ago, lots of vagueness about "stuck and unhappy". The rug had been pulled out from under me. After a month of gaslighting it was actually a relief to know what (well WHO) the new curve ball was.

Yes, Miranda was unhappy, but she can't put that on Steve. She needs to own that Che was the catalyst and she wasn't strong enough to end it on her own. I'm torn whether I want Miranda to get a humiliating comeuppance or be with Che. And I know I'm torn because of my own situation right now. I go back and forth on a daily basis. I think the kinder side of me wants it to work out because then at least it feels like the marriage was blown up for something not just an impulse and cliche 7 year itch. On the other hand, original SATC Miranda? She could start over on her own and get a new cat. Maybe date men and women. Maybe a humiliation is what she needs (Steve should not take her back after this).

 

Edited by JasonCC
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31 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

As far as the Che aspect. I'll admit this here: my Fall 2020 has been a rollercoaster and I'm the Steve in the situation. For me hearing about "Che" (no nonbinary or new sexual orientation surprises in my case though) actually helped me immensely. For one month I was just utterly confused as the only time the word "divorce" had come up between us? In a total joking manner just like Steve did! Come home tipsy from happy hour with coworkers that went too long? "Are we getting a divorce? Sorry! haha". Then suddenly some older issues were being brought up as if they happened last month not two years ago, lots of vagueness about "stuck and unhappy". The rug had been pulled out from under me. After a month of gaslighting it was a relief to know what (well WHO) the new curve ball was.

 

I'm so very sorry this happened to you, and I wish you well on your way to healing.

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I think Miranda DID put Steve down and make it seem as if his comfort level in the marriage was something to be ridiculed as inferior, tho. Her very blatant implication was that he was boring and "not enough" for her because she, Miranda, was exciting and thirsty for more, even though it doesn't appear she bothered to try to do much to revive their relationship or suggest new things. Its fairly stereotypical mid life crisis bullshit, designed, consciously or not, to make the dumped person feel  dull, pitiable, less-than. Steve doesn't deserve that. 

Like many here, I've been thru it. Husband of 14 years tells me he doesn't love me anymore. Our relationship definitely had its ups n downs, but it was still shocking. Of course, he was having an affair but  didn't want to look like the bad guy, so didn't have the decency to admit that, i had to find out on my own. He used phrases like "our relationship is crushing my soul" and "you're not enough for me" blah blah blah. A story old as time, but still pretty devastating. 

In the end, divorce was the best thing that ever happened to me, and I hope we get see that for Steve. I hope Miranda has some consequences for her actions. I agree with @JasonCC (sorry for what you've gone thru, but I 100% guarantee it gets better and you will be happy again, happier, even, than before) that she deserves a little humiliation, a little hubris check, a little reality. I can't tell if the writers will give that to her, tho, or reward her. 

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On 1/20/2022 at 11:20 AM, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

About the guy's towel dropping: SATC did full-frontal male once in a blue moon, didn't it?

This episode (foreshadowed by opening with another insufferable Che scene) and the series in general have been awful, but so many others have already mined every vane of awfulness that I won't pile on further.

Nevertheless this episode was notable (though not necessarily in a good or bad way) in at least one aspect: having two cock shots (Harry's in the aborted blowing scene - which surely wasn't really that of Evan Hander & the obnoxious, sugar adverse, towel dropping 20-something). While as noted above, this wasn't unheard of in the original series, it was rare, while three of the four women there bared their tops, some repeatedly. SJK never did that supposedly because her contract shielded her from such obligations. 

But now that the three remaining women have a type of power and control they've never had before, at least towel guy's full exposure seemed like payback for all the times these women and others have had to show their tops for no good reason than the men writing and/or watching the show wanted that. I'm not sure this is progress, but it is different. Towel guy's attitude also suggested his exposure was either abusive, much like a flasher on the subway, or at least excessively arrogant, as in "I'm so young and hot you can't not notice."

 

Edited by ahpny
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Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

I agree in theory but I don't want to see the prosthetics.  When we're forced to look at naked women no prosthetics are being used.  If they're going to use the prosthetics just skip it, it's not necessary to the scene.

I agree. I started to mention that very thing. Real cocks or no cocks at all.

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Any gratuitous nudity male or female is unnecessary.  I didn't see Harry's because I wasn't looking at the screen but since the shot was during a sexual act I don't consider that gratuitous but the guy dropping the towel was definitely let's show a guy's dick.

 

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Let's talk about Lisette. I like her! I want to see more of her and Carrie. The Lisette story is my favorite of the whole series so far. She and Carrie can connect over clothes, shoes, jewelry, and dating. Also, Lisette is new to NYC, so Carrie can share tips about living in Manhattan. Lisette will learn that Carrie is not just a crazy old lady but a published author who 20 years ago was a known Girl About Town and is now a wealthy widow. 

I'm glad she called Carrie cool so now Carrie can stop acting so insecure around her. Carrie has success and wealth, why worry so much about what some young chit thinks? But hey, it's the story and it fit Carrie's personality, so I went along with it. 

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