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S01.E08: Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

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5 minutes ago, TV is my friend said:

 

As for someone thinking that an open marriage = having an affair, the definitions of words keep changing, and sometimes it's hard to keep up.  I remember when being single meant that the person was unmarried.  But then, you weren't single if you were engaged.  And then you weren't single if you were living with someone.  And then you weren't single if you were in a committed relationship.  And then you weren't single if you were on a date.  In the episode "Splat!" Kristen Johnston's character Lexi said to Carrie that they appeared to be the only two single women at the party.  Carrie said that she was with a date.  The implication was that since Carrie was on a date (with Aleks), she wasn't single.  Even though he couldn't have been called her boyfriend at the time.

Even open marriage doesn't mean what the authors of the book Open Marriage intended it to mean.  In the book, there is one chapter that discusses married couples having physical relationships with others, and the two authors were against it.  

My definition of an open relationship is both people in a relationship are allowed to have sex with other people.  Couples can have their own rules regarding that though.  Such as not having sex with people they know or not having sex in their house. 

I have a good friend who was what used to be called a swinger with her husband.  Their rule was they could only have sex with other couples.  

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1 hour ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Me, neither.  I saw her opening his pants, that’s all.  Did they show it? I did see the other one, on the young guy.  

Oh yeah, it was big and kind of hard to miss!

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2 hours ago, Rai said:

 

That said, I still feel compelled to point out that Miranda cheated on Robert to tell Steve she loved him, knowing that Steve was in a relationship too. There's not enough of a difference between committed dating and committed marriage for me to hand-wave one and not the other. I actually don't mind that the story involves her cheating on Steve here for a variety of reasons, I just continue to be confused that cheatin' Miranda was cool back then and THE WORST now. It's an established pattern of behavior on her part as far as I can tell.

IMO declaring your love and sharing one kiss is a hell of a lot different than boinking for weeks behind your husband's back. Plus, one of the issues in this storyline isn't just the cheating itself, but the callous disregard for Steve's feelings. I just watched part of the episode after One and Miranda felt a hell of a lot more guilt over breaking Robert's heart - a man she'd been seeing for a short while - versus now where she barely cares about the father of her child/her partner for decades and what he's going through. She's off skipping through the clouds living through the romcom in her mind.

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I totally am not equating an open marriage with an affair, at all, sorry if it looked that way.  They’re two separate things, of course.  It’s just that, in my experience, when a person is sleeping with you and has a spouse,  I wouldn’t assume that she was in an open marriage.  I would definitely think “affair” first.   And I certainly wouldn’t say “you sleep with me and go home to a spouse.  That’s an open marriage,”   like  that was always the universally accepted and only definition for this type of behavior.  That would make me an idiot.  Or a Martian.  (Or Che?). That particular line of dialogue was just soooo poorly written.  It makes no logical sense as human speech.  (Sure, Che hangs out with a lot of people in open relationships so to Che that’s what it looks like, but there was maybe a better way to say that.).  
 

Also, I went back and saw Harry’s dick.  It looked so fake, and so …long …especially for being totally flaccid!  It looked like a sex toy!  

Edited by Rebecca berkowit
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4 hours ago, EllenB said:

Every time the show tries to sell Che as having a comedy act, I think of Chandler Bing stuck in the front row while the woman on stage rage-screams at him.

"There are no intermissions in LIFE!!!!"

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Oh, and what was up with Che and their surprised and judgy "your son doesn't know you're in an open marriage?" statement?

No, Judgy McJudgerson, and I would guess that in the large majority of cases, most children wouldn't know if their parents had an open relationship.  Who would want their kid to know that and what kid wants to know that?  

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13 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

 in my experience, when a person is sleeping with you and has a spouse,  I wouldn’t assume that she was in an open marriage.  I would definitely think “affair” first.   And I certainly wouldn’t say “you sleep with me and go home to a spouse.  That’s an open marriage,”   like  that was always the universally accepted and only definition for this type of behavior.  That would make me an idiot.  Or a Martian.  (Or Che?). That particular line of dialogue was just soooo poorly written. 

I can think of so many reasons to get that all straight before getting  in bed with a new person. Who gets sexually involved with someone constantly for 3 weeks, and does not get clarity on what Miranda going home to a husband means? Don't you want to know if she 's possibly having sex with Steve as well? Leaving the other reasons out of it for now, wouldn't one want to know if they're possibly risking exposure to STD's ad STI's he might have or  be carrying?

...and if they do have an open marriage and Steve sleeps with a lot of other people besides  Miranda, Che would be risking all THAT exposure. Who conducts themselves like that in this day and age?

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On 1/17/2022 at 4:39 PM, luna1122 said:

Also Charlotte said "Trey likes to do it", about rimming, not that she reciprocated. No way do I believe Charlotte does that, even with Harry. She didn't want his naked ass on her white furniture, let alone her face. But I imagine she came (ha) around to blow jobs with him. 

Speaking of Trey, Kyle McLachlan was looking very fine walking the Prada runway today. https://www.instagram.com/p/CYzCVqlLg6T/?utm_medium=copy_link

Well she never wanted to be known has Ms up the butt girl lol

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6 hours ago, SuzieSioux said:

This show has made Carrie the character I enjoy watching the most! How did that happen?!!)

Maybe THAT’S that’s the real endgame!

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In the last scene, where is Carrie going with books like that?  She a student?

I mean, she is too Old to finally get that young folks think she’s old.   Isn’t she?  
 

how many over-50 people give a flying if young folks think they are cool?  Get over it.

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12 minutes ago, SFoster21 said:

 

In the last scene, where is Carrie going with books like that?  She a student?

 

They looked like library books. Maybe that hasn’t changed!

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1 hour ago, b2H said:

Carrie explained it to Seema: it is all in an effort to keep the smell of smoke to a minimum in the apartment while keeping herself to only one smoke a day.

Might be a whole lot easier to just stop already.

Carrie can just start to vape.

You know that the writers could have written the whole Miranda explores her sexuality and breaks up with Steve 10 different ways that would have been more satisfying for the audience to swallow it. It's just lazy writing. 

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15 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

While I am on Carrie's side about the neighbor being too loud it definitely had shades of get off my lawn.

It was 2:30 in the morning-that’s a bit much!!

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4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

Ha.  To be fair to MPK, Matt Weiner had some pretty messed up opinions about his characters as well.  It's almost a miracle that Mad Men did manage to bend towards justice.

**Cough cough**Megan**Cough cough**
I was just thinking about how Che is kind of the Megan of this show. Like Megan: We’re supposed to believe that Che (autocorrect keeps changing that to “ache,” LOL) is SO AMAZING and everyone just falls all over themselves around them. NOPE. Except I think Sara Ramirez is a decent actor doing all they can do with the material; not so with Jessica Pare (Megan). Still: Being told that we NEED TO LIKE A CHARACTER never ends up all that well. 

 

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18 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Steve. 💔

Miranda is a fucking asshole and she never ever deserved him. 

Amen girlfriend.

 

18 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Steve. 💔

Miranda is a fucking asshole and she never ever deserved him. 

 

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22 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

It was 2:30 in the morning-that’s a bit much!!

I miss urban stoop life.  I don't miss the noise that came with it.  I invested in earplugs.  

What was more remarkable was the 20-something knocking on the door to apologize.  If it had been Carrie and crew 20 years ago we would have had carrie going on and on at brunch about how it's New York, the city never sleeps, why should you???  

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4 minutes ago, BrindaWalsh said:

Oh, and what was up with Che and their surprised and judgy "your son doesn't know you're in an open marriage?" statement?

No, Judgy McJudgerson, and I would guess that in the large majority of cases, most children wouldn't know if their parents had an open relationship.  Who would want their kid to know that and what kid wants to know that?  

Not Lili! IMO she played into buying that cancer check BS because she didn't want to hear Charlotte's little talk.

 

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(I'm 9 minutes in) THIS SHOW IS SO DUMBBBBBBBBBBBBB

I HATE MIRANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

It was nice to see Carrie's blue Kimono again.  I remember her wearing that in 2 episodes.  Season 1 and/or 2.  I forget, but not past then I don't think.

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Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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KD on Watch What Happens Live w/ Andy Cohen just confirmed it was a prosthetic penis [in the bathroom scene w/ Harry]

 

They teased her appearance saying she was going to tell what happens at the end of AJLT.

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Ugh, of course Carrie just tosses her used cigarettes anywhere.  

Miranda is the scum of the Earth.

First Miranda twists the knife by telling Steve there's somebody else, then goes to Cleveland immediately to see Che?  ON THE DAY SHE TELLS STEVE IT'S OVER?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!

Making me sympathize with Steve Brady is the work of Satan.  SATAN. this shit is SATANIC

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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What in the world does Che love about Miranda? She seems so nuts every time they’re together.

And how selfish of Carrie to call her coworker at 2:30am. She knows nothing about his life but she knows he’s awake at that time? And she calls to ask such a stupid question.

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On 1/16/2022 at 9:11 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Michael Patrick King: We didn't want to revisit the original series in this one.

Also Michael Patrick King: Let's have Carrie pull out an iconic gown from the original series to show her new friend!

Not just the iconic gown but a bunch of her iconic outfits too..... 

For people saying this "felt like Charlotte". Not to me, it didn't.  Would I believe that Charlotte would blow Harry?  Of course! But Charlotte never used those words in public, never, ever, ever.  She would be really discreet about it.  I could never imagine Original Charlotte using slang like "blow".  Sorry, it didn't feel like OG Charlotte, but I guess it's Botoxed Joker Charlotte!

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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11 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Regarding Harry’s dick….was that a Boogie Nights type of prop, or does Evan Handler got it goin’ on like that?  If he does, I might have to shove his wife to the side because, rowrrrrrrr!! 

My vote is prop.

My vote is also that the neighbour really showed his.

I was kind of excited for the show "The Gilded Age" but frankly I don't want to see Cynthia's fucking face on it.  I hope she has a small role.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

My vote is prop.

My vote is also that the neighbour really showed his.

I was kind of excited for the show "The Gilded Age" but frankly I don't want to see Cynthia's fucking face on it.  I hope she has a small role.

Just keep her away from the writers’ room.

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1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:
17 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

While I am on Carrie's side about the neighbor being too loud it definitely had shades of get off my lawn.

It was 2:30 in the morning-that’s a bit much!!

I agree it was a bit much.  I think it had shades of Samantha throwing a pot of water on her meatpacking transvestites.  Those were scenes said to have not aged well but which were way better written and acted, in my humble opinion.  Samantha was a badass in a good way.  She didn't take no shit.  They're writing Carrie to be an insecure wimp with an age complex.

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On 1/18/2022 at 10:31 AM, funnygirl said:

Patricia Field would never. 

Never!  Patricia's styling was kind of a character on the show.  I miss it.

Sounds like she was very hurt by the falling out with her and SJP.. I read an article where she brings up Cynthia Nixon and how she was awful to work with.  Pushy and always texting her when she was unhappy with this or that.  I can totally see that now.

 

14 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I am aware that in the age of Glennon Doyle ( I adore her) we should all celebrate a woman who wants "more." But FUCK, that ep was tone-deaf. Miranda, sitting around her million-dollar brownstone that does nothing but appreciate, with a husband who loves her, all the brains in the world, a new degree, a healthy child... and that's not enough. 

...

These are the most clueless fuckwits to ever put a show on the air. I am HORRIFIED that they were paid for this. I'm saying it now and I mean it: I will never watch anything Cynthia Nixon is in again, and I'll avoid anything MPK is involved in like the plague. I hope neither of them ever work again. 

YES to your whole awesome post!  Except for the Glennon Doyle part, uugh I loathe her.

I used to love Cynthia Nixon, now that I know she is pushy and rude and decided to foist her real life into this show, I am not really into her.

 

 

13 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

 

In the hands of better writers on a better show, Miranda's situation could be an intriguing, even compelling storyline. There are plenty of people who hit their 50s and look at their lives, wondering how they got here and if they're really happy. The look at marriages that aren't loaded with excitement and get that "the grass is always greener somewhere else" thought running through their heads. Do they walk away from their marriages and take a chance on the unknown? Is it worth hurting a partner that didn't do anything wrong other than being familiar and a little boring?

But this isn't a good show and these writers are taking the cheap and easy way out.

Exactly!  These writers are horrible.  This storyline *could* have been done well in the right hands.

And one of the writers, Samantha Irby thinks highly of herself. I listened to that podcast where she was patting herself on the back.  

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You guys have said a lot of things I agree with. 
 

This isn’t Miranda, this is Cynthia Nixon wanting to live out her life. Che being indignant about Miranda not being in an open marriage seemed like re-writing history; the speech would’ve worked IF there had been a point before the first hook-up where Miranda insinuated that she was available. As in “my husband understands” or something. Sara Rameriez deserves better (they are a far better actor than this drivel) A non binary character deserves better. 
 

Steve deserves better. Period. I don’t have a problem with Miranda leaving Steve, but don’t degrade the character to do it!

Also- yeah I think Lily didn’t want to hear Charlotte’s chat OR think about her parents having sex. 

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21 minutes ago, 27bored said:

I understand what some of the posters and likely where the writers were coming from with this idea that if Miranda isn't happy she shouldn't stay with Steve. I get that and I don't think my issue is that I want her to stay with Steve just for his benefit. I take issue with this implicit assumption that women, even in old age, even in a stable, comfortable situation, can't succumb to selfishness or self-centeredness, can't fall for the novelty of a new circumstance...simply because they're women. I think there would be a lot of clarity if a man left a happy home because he's fallen for some bitch he met a few months ago, and I don't think anybody would be afraid to call him on it...not just as a matter of moral principle but on behalf of his wife. I feel like the show is using this idea of Miranda "not being happy" to appropriate her having an affair. Because we can't acknowledge that she's maybe gotten too comfortable and is now taking her situation for granted. Because that's not what women do.

I agree with you on this point generally speaking, but I think the point for me in this case is not that a woman wouldn't leave a marriage for purely selfish reasons and some excuse must be made to "legitimize" it, but that Miranda specifically wouldn't leave a marriage in such a selfish manner.  The Miranda I knew would be agonizing about this, talking to Carrie about her moral dilemma, going back and forth and looking for guidance.  She would at least show some sort of conscience about it.  Then she would talk to Steve about it to look for a mutually agreed upon solution and not just drop the axe on him like that out of the blue.  I think we're supposed to believe that she had already done all she could and still couldn't be happy with Steve, but I'm not buying that based on what was shown here.

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2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

My impression was that the first time Miranda had tried to actively hide their relationship was at that event, so Che hadn't thought much about it before then.  I didn't get the idea it was saying anything about Che being morally superior or that Miranda was supposed to be seen as old and outdated.

I get what you’re saying, while I think that Miranda had a bigger duty to tell Che than Che had to ask, it wasn’t as if Miranda presented herself as single. Che knew Miranda was married, and we didn’t see any dialogue that insinuated they were open. 
 

Che just assuming the marriage was open without a single line of dialogue to support that, and then getting huffy was just bad writing. Now if Miranda had insinuated she was “free” like in my example above I would be 100% behind Che’s speech. 

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Aside from all the other issues with this Miranda storyline, all I can think of is how if Steve was making the same exact jokes as Che Miranda wouldn’t be laughing her ass off and looking at him like a cartoon with heart eyes.   She’d give him that bitchface and say something snide.  
Also, wasn’t it Che who made the first move on Miranda at carries apartment?  I could be wrong about that but I don’t remember Che asking about Miranda’s marriage first.  

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Cynthia Nixon should have starred in a show about a woman going through a late-in-life sea change that had her leaving a successful full-time career and divorcing her husband for a queer woman of color and the fallout that caused for herself and everyone around her. It could have even been called And Just Like That. 

Unfortunatelythis is a followup to a series that's been going on since last century with established characters with personalities, character traits, and temperaments. This version of Miranda Hobbes is fucking nuts. I don't even blame Cynthia Nixon entirely for this turn. The writers are simply abysmal. I don't know why, but the conversation between Carrie and Charlotte taking on the phone in the bathroom just totally felt like the writers using these characters as avatars for their own overt machinations. And I'm totally fine with the stories they're trying to tell, they just aren't competent enough to write them. 

Che came off as the reasonable one in this episode. They're still not funny, but at least somewhat sensible.  

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1 minute ago, lexiexx said:

Aside from all the other issues with this Miranda storyline, all I can think of is how if Steve was making the same exact jokes as Che Miranda wouldn’t be laughing her ass off and looking at him like a cartoon with heart eyes.   She’d give him that bitchface and say something snide.  
Also, wasn’t it Che who made the first move on Miranda at carries apartment?  I could be wrong about that but I don’t remember Che asking about Miranda’s marriage first.  

Great point. The show would like us to believe all one has to do is tell jokes, give head, and smoke weed is all you need to win a woman over. I see why Miranda fell for Che since potheads who have a sense of humor and give head are a rare breed. 🙄 

I remember back when they went to the fundraiser for the guy running for NYC Comptroller that Carrie was dating and Miranda was like: "The dumb jokes: con. Cute butt. Pro." 

 

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Like everyone else I fully expect Miranda to get a rude awakening when she turns up in Cleveland.

14 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

And maybe this wouldn't rub me the wrong way if this didn't feel like how my best friend's husband ended their marriage on their 19th anniversary. That he suddenly dropped it on her that he wasn't happy, wanted out and had no interest in counseling and trying to fix what he thought was wrong with their relationship. He never loved her, married her because he felt that was what everyone expected of him and after 19 years and 2 kids (that she had to put herself through in vitro in order to conceive), he was out the door and there was nothing she could do about it.

Oh my God, did I write this? One of my closest friends got the same treatment--he had checked out of the marriage and wouldn't go to counseling, it was done, he had made the decision. (And they were dealing with serious mental health issues with their only child.) She was very zen about it but I was furious and took it very personally because I'd been a bridesmaid at their wedding. Hell, she and I had been living together when they first met and started dating. I was fully invested in that relationship and his bullshit exit pissed me off. If you start feeling a certain way about your marriage (absent of course obvious red flags like abuse), you should at least try to save it. Counseling, or just talking.

10 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Some random thoughts: Why is this show almost promoting smoking? Did we really need the time-wasting scenes of Carrie and Seema talking about smoking? Carrie has been a smoker for maybe 20 years of her life, and a non-smoker for maybe 15 years. I get that she took it up again as a regression after Big's death, but she's just now realizing that cigarette smoke stinks and the smell gets into everything including your skin, hair, and breath? (Not to mention lungs.) You'd have thought that in the past she wouldn't have wanted to stink up and ruin her prized clothing collection. Was it all so that we could see her looking like a crazy old lady in that "smoking outfit", walking around in it without even buckling her shoes? She really doesn't care what the neighbors think, does she? I guess it doesn't matter since she has no relationship with them... until the cool young new neighbor sees her. Hope being spotted looking like that convinces Carrie to give up the habit and the outfit and act like she has sense. ETA: Carrie also throws her half-smoked cigarette into the street after Lisette spots her in her crazy old lady outfit. Littering by throwing your butts in the street is nasty.

It's so gross--I hate all the smoking. My parents smoked when I was a kid and I was very resentful of it. I was thrilled when Bloomberg essentially banned it in NYC for the same reason--the stink. I would go to a club and my hair and clothes would still smell of it the next day. And I didn't smoke! And I hate how casually most smokers litter their butts. Those filters are not biodegradable.

 

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Interestingly, Che told Miranda that they would be OK with having a relationship with her if she were in an open relationship.  Why Miranda didn't think that was an option and instead chose to ask Steve for a divorce rather than an open relationship just shows right there that she's not going to like having one with Che either.  

I wondered that myself! See if Steve is open to an open relationship--who knows, maybe it'll restart their engines. She's rushing through everything, completely discarding Steve after just three weeks of weed-addled, mind-blowing sex.

 

4 hours ago, b2H said:

That was beyond noise.

I kept waiting for that woman laughing to lay the egg already…..

GOD, that was obnoxious!

 

3 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

Oh, and what was up with Che and their surprised and judgy "your son doesn't know you're in an open marriage?" statement?

Che the Avatar of Wokeness, trying too hard, yet again.

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11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

!  

And Charlotte - They're making her tippy toe around her kids like she's worried she might make a mistake.  Another doddering "old" person who has no clue what it's like to be a young person and completely out of touch.  Her remark about how "we weren't that open about things" in "her day" was another ageist insult.  My husband and I had to take our jaws off the floor.  If Charlotte was stuck in some 1950's sitcom in her teenage years that was a HER thing, not a thing common among women born in her time or even in MY time.  

Work out clothes from the '80s when Charlotte was 15.

 

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Yup, they might as well be nuns.

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David Eigenberg did such a great job with the material he was given. My favorite part was him asking Miranda "can I have my hand back." He didn't have it in him to fight, but he also wasn't going to just sit there and feed her illusion that he's A-OK with everything.

The thing that bothers me the most about the "new" Miranda, aside from the way she treats Steve, is that's she gets really stupid around Che. SATC Miranda was never this stupid about anything or anyone. I hope she gets a huge wake-up call when she gets to Cleveland.

15 hours ago, Evie said:

They should have made Che an activist or inspirational speaker because they are not funny

Judging by the opening scene of the episode, they're not inspirational, either.

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11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I agree with you that this is bad, lazy writing.  Nothing is organic, it's all being foist upon the characters.  But I do think the age and relative inexperience of the writer of this episode has something to do with that.  She's 29.  Do 29 year olds really think 55 is that old?  They're still writing Miranda and especially Steve like they're one step away from a nursing home!  I'm 63 and feel insulted by the insinuation about older people.  If I feel that way I can't imagine how 55 year olds must feel!  David Eigenberg may have hearing aids but he doesn't act like a doddering idiot like Steve is here.  Geez, my 90 year old father acted younger than these people!  

And Charlotte - They're making her tippy toe around her kids like she's worried she might make a mistake.  Another doddering "old" person who has no clue what it's like to be a young person and completely out of touch.  Her remark about how "we weren't that open about things" in "her day" was another ageist insult.  My husband and I had to take our jaws off the floor.  If Charlotte was stuck in some 1950's sitcom in her teenage years that was a HER thing, not a thing common among women born in her time or even in MY time.  

As someone in my 30s, 29 wasn't long ago, and I don't consider these characters old. I've found Steve's portrayal strange all season. 

Regarding excitement, as a single lady, just my thoughts. While I'd be thrilled with a good guy like Steve or Harry and a simple life watching TV together most nights, I totally get wanting more out of life than sitting at home, even if you are very fortunate. However, aren't there a lot of things you can do to add excitement without cheating? Don't they live in one of the most exciting cities in the world? Isn't there a ton to do? Even if they didn't live in NYC, why not go take a dance class together? Seems like money isn't an issue, and they could go for romantic dinners throughout the week. They could take strolls through scenic places together. Go see a movie, watch theatre. They could make couple friends to hang out with if they don't have them already. Why does it have to be, I'm bored, I'm going to cheat and leave my spouse? 

In Charlotte's defense, even if she's not old, I do think the culture has changed a lot from when she would have been growing up to now. I'm in between her and her daughter's age, and when I was a kid, I never heard the terms body positivity, sex shame, or purity culture. I don't remember curves being celebrated by many until J. Lo and Kardashians. I don't like that our culture is kind of hyper-sexual, and Brady's behavior isn't cute to me. But I think it's wonderful that there's less shame regarding women's bodies, growing up, being sexual, and more acceptance with LGBT. 

I'm happy we finally got more Lily. I liked the storyline with the Instagram pics too. It was so real. My mother is the type who'd freak out over her grown kids having sexy pics. 

Maybe unpopular opinion here, but I wasn't offended by the nudity either. I get being against nudity period if you just like things PG, but if you are cool with boobs everywhere, why not have dude parts too? Everything is always for the male gaze, and this show's main audience is women. 

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2 hours ago, ivygirl said:

**Cough cough**Megan**Cough cough**
I was just thinking about how Che is kind of the Megan of this show. Like Megan: We’re supposed to believe that Che (autocorrect keeps changing that to “ache,” LOL) is SO AMAZING and everyone just falls all over themselves around them. NOPE. Except I think Sara Ramirez is a decent actor doing all they can do with the material; not so with Jessica Pare (Megan). Still: Being told that we NEED TO LIKE A CHARACTER never ends up all that well. 

Oh, that brings back memories! I haven't thought about Weiner and Pare in so long. That was such a weird situation.  

Maybe someone involved with AJLT does have a Sara Ramirez crush (listening to Weiner talk about Pare in DVD commentaries for season 5, I thought there was a crush going on there at least), but in this case it comes off more like they think they've created a great, "voice of the 2020s" character they were so proud to present, and they're not seeing the disconnect between their notes and how it's come out on onscreen. It's like they served a dessert that no one wants to eat more than a bite or two of, and they're like, "No, look! See the list of ingredients? See the picture in the recipe book? This is great!" (Actually, the whole show is like that.) 

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3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

They looked like library books. Maybe that hasn’t changed!

I thought library books as well, maybe as a callback to the first movie - reading the book of love letters in bed with Big, their not-a-wedding at the main branch of the New York Public Library.

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8 hours ago, T Summer said:

IDK if people want her to stay because she seemingly has a good life with Steve so much as people (well this one at least), think years of being a reliable partner who is there in sickness and in health, boring times and exciting times etc entitles you to a modicum of respect. TELL ME you're dissatisfied and want to either try to fix what's wrong  or that for you  it can't be fixed before you go  start something new with someone else.

Exactly. Other that trying to reenact sex with Che, has Miranda put any effort into bringing excitement into her marriage? Does she realize she should have ended her relationship with Steve before starting anything with Che? I think they want us to see poor, unhappy Miranda starting a beautiful love story with Che, and yeah, NO!

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7 hours ago, T Summer said:

Are you stating that Miranda telling Steve in the laundry room that she loved him and then never seeing Robert again [romantically] constituted cheating?

or did I forget something  else from  SATC?

 

100 percent. Both Steve and Miranda were in committed, monogamous relationships at the time, leading their partners to believe they were emotionally available and not at all hung up on their ex with whom they'd had a kid. Emotional infidelity is still infidelity, and just because none of them were married at the time, doesn't mean it still doesn't "count" as a betrayal.

To @FilmTVGeek80's point about how Robert got to yell at Miranda in the next episode, I mean, yeah, he told her he loved her, and she gave him every indication that she was on that road too. Poor Debbie didn't even get to have any screen time with her hurt. Steve and Miranda hurt other people to get what they wanted after misleading their respective partners. It was accepted as being totally cool on the show and by the audience, so that's why I'm surprised at how angry people are at Miranda now.

To be clear, I don't endorse cheating in real life. On these shows, I don't actually care deeply that they did so in the past, and I don't care deeply that Miranda's doing it again now. I just feel there's some real inconsistency here, and I feel sorry for her.

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19 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Now that we've seen Brady as an LGBTQ+ "ally" I'm looking forward to the scene where Miranda, his mom, tells him she's divorcing his father because she's in love with the non-binary comedian/activist he saw at the rally.

The only way I will like this story line is if Miranda gets slammed with the realization that she's just another of Che's many sex partners and we end the season with Miranda having to face being all alone and sad, as she almost did on that New Year's Eve in the first movie. This time maybe Carrie will let her just sit with the consequences of her actions. As Carrie said, "Being alone in theory is different from being alone in reality." 

Right. And, the only thing that will make me feel a little better is if when Miranda returns from chasing after Che, Steve has boxed her things and sat them in the hallway.  I kept waiting for him to say, Miranda, if you want to leave, leave, but I’m not moving. Lol

Why did Miranda assume that if Brady saw her at the rally, he would think she was with Che?  Miranda was in the crowd.  Act cool, wave and he’ll think she was there like any other person attending. All that sneaking and dodging around….bizarre.  
 

Who was it that Carrie called bitches early in the episode? ……….ok, Carrie comments that Seema would cut a bitch for sale items at Barney’s or something like that.  It just sounded so out of place and like writers were trying too hard.  

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Omg this show is so bad. Miranda and Che are in love. Lmao what a good joke. Just because you say it show doesn’t make it true. They have no chemistry it’s the worst. I hate Miranda so much now. I hope Steve peaces out and finds a woman who isn’t an entitled bitch. They also try to act like Steve is a 90 year old man too like wtf.

Nothing Che says is funny ever. Like just stop show. Che is also not young they are basically the same age as the rest of them. Stop trying to pretend Che is so young and hip.

Carried called her podcast coworker because she thinks he’s young I guess? Again show fuck off he is 50 as well. He’s not some cool young hip guy. Whoever is writing this show is an idiot.

I watched this episode with someone who doesn’t watch the show or the og and they just kept saying how bad it was and was the og like this. I just don’t understand how anyone can think this show is good lol.

 

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1 hour ago, Rai said:

100 percent. Both Steve and Miranda were in committed, monogamous relationships at the time, leading their partners to believe they were emotionally available and not at all hung up on their ex with whom they'd had a kid. Emotional infidelity is still infidelity, and just because none of them were married at the time, doesn't mean it still doesn't "count" as a betrayal.

To @FilmTVGeek80's point about how Robert got to yell at Miranda in the next episode, I mean, yeah, he told her he loved her, and she gave him every indication that she was on that road too. Poor Debbie didn't even get to have any screen time with her hurt. Steve and Miranda hurt other people to get what they wanted after misleading their respective partners. It was accepted as being totally cool on the show and by the audience, so that's why I'm surprised at how angry people are at Miranda now.

To be clear, I don't endorse cheating in real life. On these shows, I don't actually care deeply that they did so in the past, and I don't care deeply that Miranda's doing it again now. I just feel there's some real inconsistency here, and I feel sorry for her.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Back in those Neanderthal times, people frequently dated more than one person at a time. For teens, a commitment meant officially going steady and announcing it to their friends, and she'd get his class ring to wear on a neck chain or wrapped in yarn to fit her finger. For people out of high school, they could date multiple people until getting engaged to one of them. Unless a couple had gotten engaged, seeing someone else wasn't considered cheating, except by  possessive nutjobs, in which case, better to learn it early. Watch some movies from the 40s and 50s and you'll see the "who'll get engaged?" thing happen a LOT with characters dating several people. I have no idea when things got so retro-puritanical that one date made them a committed couple.

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Yeah, obviously mileage varies, but Miranda and Robert were not engaged. Hell, I don't think they dated long enough to be really serious. Ditto Steve and Debbie. So I don't see those instances as Steve and Miranda cheating.

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4 hours ago, 27bored said:

First of all, there was a lot of cock in this episode.

Cracked. Up.

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7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

My vote is prop.

My vote is also that the neighbour really showed his.

I was kind of excited for the show "The Gilded Age" but frankly I don't want to see Cynthia's fucking face on it.  I hope she has a small role.

Wonder if CN has a hand in that character and will make her explore her sexuality.

I am soooo done with the actress and the character. I was done 9 episodes ago. (yeah I know this is ep 8)

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3 hours ago, EllenB said:

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Back in those Neanderthal times, people frequently dated more than one person at a time. For teens, a commitment meant officially going steady and announcing it to their friends, and she'd get his class ring to wear on a neck chain or wrapped in yarn to fit her finger. For people out of high school, they could date multiple people until getting engaged to one of them. Unless a couple had gotten engaged, seeing someone else wasn't considered cheating, except by  possessive nutjobs, in which case, better to learn it early. Watch some movies from the 40s and 50s and you'll see the "who'll get engaged?" thing happen a LOT with characters dating several people. I have no idea when things got so retro-puritanical that one date made them a committed couple.

Taking this to small talk. 

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8 hours ago, 27bored said:

I understand what some of the posters and likely where the writers were coming from with this idea that if Miranda isn't happy she shouldn't stay with Steve. I get that and I don't think my issue is that I want her to stay with Steve just for his benefit. I take issue with this implicit assumption that women, even in old age, even in a stable, comfortable situation, can't succumb to selfishness or self-centeredness, can't fall for the novelty of a new person...simply because they're women. I think there would be a lot of clarity if a man left a happy home because he's fallen for some bitch he met a few months ago, and I don't think anybody would be afraid to call him on it...not just as a matter of moral principle but on behalf of his wife. I feel like the show is using this idea of Miranda "not being happy" to appropriate her having an affair. Because we can't acknowledge that she's maybe gotten too comfortable and is now taking her situation for granted. Because that's not what women do.

I don't say that to pick on women in general, but I'm saying that because I think that's the assumption made by the writers. Like I said, the show has a palpable "fuck men" energy given the times we're in, so that's why they're playing it this way. Notice Lisette's boyfriend getting kicked out because he's "fucked every girl in the city". Why? Because he's a handsome young guy who doesn't eat sugar, so you know, that's what handsome young guys who don't eat sugar who have rich, successful, beautiful girlfriends do. They fuck all the girls in the city. Because reasons. Miranda isn't fucking Che because she's a bad person; nooo, she's fucking Che because "she's not happy" and she doesn't want to continue to disappoint Che. That's why women cheat. (All said with an eyeroll)

This is where we differ, people don't cheat when they are happy with their partners. I get that for men, people love to sell their cheating as just them needing sex because as a society we excuse men for their nonsense all the time and it makes it easier for women to stay in bad situations since they can justify their partners betrayal as "just sex" (which is so embarrassing IMO).

Miranda was unhappy with Steve before she cheated and that was depicted on the show. True, she should've felt remorse for it but I seems like a lot of people are upset that she decided that she wanted more for herself than a boring and bad marriage. 

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