S01.E08: Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

[Baltimore Betty]

Every time Steve is on the screen I feel like I am watching some sort of Flowers for Algernon/AJLT mash up and Steve is playing Charlie and Miranda is the scientist.

I have never seen David Eigenberg in anything else, does he always talk like Buddy Hackett taught him how to speak?

It's funny how after 6 seasons of SATC and two movies we had never seen the hallway or stairs of Carrie's apartment and now that staircase has become a new character.

Carrie suddenly had racks of her clothing in her apartment full of clothes, where were those dresses and such this whole time she has been living in that apartment?  She has enlisted Lily to help her catalog everything so she can store them...I can appreciate her wanting to preserve her collection but Big is still in a cardboard box on a shelf in her closet but a vintage Gucci dress gets more care and attention. Maybe the writers are waiting for some emotional breakdown scene where Carrie finally does something with his ashes or maybe she stores them in some vintage Prada tote bag.

I have decided that Charlotte is the least believable, natural actress, the Progressive Insurance commercial actors have more depth than Kristen Davis.  

Ever notice how when Miranda, Carrie and Charlotte go to lunch or dinner or whatever, it is always Carrie and Miranda walking away together, never all of them.  

Miranda tells Steve they are done and she takes off for Cleveland to meet Che but what about telling Brady that his parents are splitting up, did she leave it for Steve to do alone? Geeze.   

Che tells Miranda she cannot do traditional relationship stuff but is in love with her and Miranda says she is good with that but to me that sounds like Che wants to let her fingers do the walking with other women, will Miranda be good with that?

[Baltimore Betty]

5 hours ago, T Summer said:

These dumbass writers  forgot  a box  on their woke check list:

don't confuse    hearing  loss with decreased  intelligence

My husband recently got hearing aids and I know is intelligence did not decrease because of it, he tells me how much smarter he is than me all the time, lol.

When I saw Steve being so careless about his hearing aids saying that he thinks one is under the couch cushions I couldn't believe it, they look like my husbands and they sell for $3500, (they are small and delicate), and Miranda did not get crazy from him being so careless with them?  

[TooMuchRealityTV]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Miranda tells Steve they are done and she takes off for Cleveland to meet Che but what about telling Brady that his parents are splitting up, did she leave it for Steve to do alone? Geeze.   

So much this. These two have a kid together and share a household. They need to make decisions on how they want to approach that. They need to talk to Brady. It would probably be helpful if they put on a united front. Miranda just runs off because "she's in a rom com" now. Was this storyline written by teenagers?

[EllenB]

Maybe next week will show Steve and Brady and Brady's girlfriend sitting on the couch eating ice cream. And then, while the youngsters are banging their brains out, Steve will shuffle a few steps over to get to his walker, but he'll have dribble on his pants because Miranda wasn't there to strap his Depends on.

[ferjy]

17 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

Getting back to Charlotte’s aversion to giving blow jobs ... I would think that the girls would have remembered this, because it was the topic of an entire episode back in the day.  Maybe one of them might have mentioned something like ... “so now you do them?”, at least referring to the past episode?!  

Not sure if it’s been said yet (I’m still filtering through all the posts, it’s an active thread!) but Charlotte got over her BJ squeamishness when she met Trey. There was a scene like the one you mention above where they are surprised she is doing them after her initial aversion. 

 

[ferjy]

28 minutes ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

So much this. These two have a kid together and share a household. They need to make decisions on how they want to approach that. They need to talk to Brady. It would probably be helpful if they put on a united front. Miranda just runs off because "she's in a rom com" now. Was this storyline written by teenagers?

lol Worse, it’s written (or at least inputted) by an EP with an agenda. I hate the way they’ve written this. Miranda is nothing more than a cheater. She never made a move to end her marriage until she met Che. A spouse will say anything to try justify why they’re leaving when it’s to be with someone else. I particularly hated that they showed her all giggly and happy oblivious to the hurt she just inflicted on Steve, or what effect this will have on her child. Typical selfish cheater only thinking of what she wants. Congratulations writers, you’ve made us hate Miranda. 

 

[ferjy]

19 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Even though I think this show is shit, at least these threads are of endless fun to me.

Same here. I’ve been catching up and reading for the last 1-1/2 hours instead of tending to the family. Ah, fck them, I know my priorities. 🙃

[ferjy]

On 1/21/2022 at 5:07 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Not the Miranda we know!  We are justified in hating this storyline!)

I think it’s a bad move to base an established character on the actor’s life. As we’ve all said, Miranda specifically went through the “Am I gay” stage. She was also livid at Steve cheating, so I can’t see Miranda doing it. This is Cynthia Nixon, not Miranda Hobbes. Should Carrie and Big have decided to have children because Sarah Jessica Parker has? Should Charlotte have left Harry and decided she wanted to remain single like Kristin Davis is? If Cynthia Nixon wanted her life added to the show, they should have brought in a new character for that storyline.  

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Before the reboot aired, I made jokes about Miranda running for governor, Samantha pretending to be a mannequin in a mall, blah blah.  I didn't realize they were actually going to do something so insane.

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, EllenB said:

Maybe next week will show Steve and Brady and Brady's girlfriend sitting on the couch eating ice cream. And then, while the youngsters are banging their brains out, Steve will shuffle a few steps over to get to his walker, but he'll have dribble on his pants because Miranda wasn't there to strap his Depends.

 

I would love to see a scene of Steve and Brady sitting on the couch eating ice cream and laughing and Miranda looking in from outside realizing everything she has lost 

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

Not sure if it’s been said yet (I’m still filtering through all the posts, it’s an active thread!) but Charlotte got over her BJ squeamishness when she met Trey. There was a scene like the one you mention above where they are surprised she is doing them after her initial aversion. 

 

Yes Carrie made a joke about crouching Charlotte.

19 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Before the reboot aired, I made jokes about Miranda running for governor, Samantha pretending to be a mannequin in a mall, blah blah.  I didn't realize they were actually going to do something so insane.

Yes I also thought we would see Miranda run for office.   Maybe we will see that if there is a second season.   Since Cynthia Nixon seems to think her real life is so interesting it needs to be portrayed onscreen.

[Baltimore Betty]

So Charlotte is willing to give Harry a blow job but she won't apologize for knocking him over when they were playing tennis?  

Does Che know that Miranda is on her way to Cleveland?  Was she invited or is this going to be a surprise because surprises don't usually work out well for the one doing the surprise.

Carrie and her smoking or quitting smoking is interesting, she was in love with Aiden but couldn't or wouldn't quit for him but now she is so protective over clothing that will she will not smoke around it and dresses up like a bag woman to have one while walking around the block?  

[ferjy]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:03 AM, LiterateDog said:

OMG Someone posted this on Reddit about this epi of AJLT and I've been cackling with remembered glee thinking about the original episode. Wouldn't it be great if this is the response Miranda got from Che? I know its not going to happen, but one can always dream. 😂 

Ha! I miss Samantha.

 

[ferjy]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:34 AM, luna1122 said:

Is it supposed to  some kind of weird accepted "fact" that women don't blow their partners after awhile? I mean, we know Miranda didn't (poor Steve) but surely Mr. Big wouldn't have been ok with that, or vice versa for Carrie. Again, I know its a joke, but it feels like one of those old wives takes people for some reason like to believe in. 

I'm beginning to think the show is now written by a group of young people who think all old (remember, we're ancient at 55) couples rarely have sex, let alone oral.

 

[Jillybean]

9 hours ago, T Summer said:

I ran across a video of Candace Bushnell being questioned about AJLT earlier. The interviewer was kind of soft peddling it, but he was asking why the characters are not necessarily acting as we would  expect them to having gotten to know them over the years. She said it's a mistake to think of it as a reboot... I know, they're calling it a reboot, she said. it's not a reboot. It's actually a spinoff and they can do what they want with the characters.

The tagline is literally "A New Chapter of Sex and the City." How is that a spinoff? I would tell her that word doesn't mean what she thinks it means.

[ferjy]

On 1/21/2022 at 11:34 AM, libgirl2 said:

Miranda sure would have. Its like the character has a whole different brain and personality. 

I'd pay good money to hear the words former Miranda would utter to present Miranda.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Well Miranda did scream "You're living in a fantasy world" to Carrie who went to Paris with the Russian.  So yeah that sounds pretty apt.  and Carrie wasn't even breaking up marriages.  And at least Carrie followed someone with talent.  Remember how SATC used to know how to write artists?

[Frozendiva]

Wonder how Carrie got all those clothes up the stairs to her apartment. Movers? She is lucky that so far, her new friend Seema is not an opportunist who sees the staggering value of the clothes, bags, and shoes, and robs her. Vulnerable widow and all. I get wanting to be the cool neighbor, but noise pollution is a serious issue. It is hard to confront a neighbor these days. A lot of times you get the ‘I can do what I want’ treatment. Nope. You have no idea who your neighbor is. A woman who can afford that apartment should be an adult and has some awareness of others. Eventually, the other neighbors will start to call the cops. Carrie can easily afford a soundproofed apartment with a concierge to deal with neighbor noise. Also surprised she has never had a noisy neighbor before.

Miranda, who are you? Instead of dumping your husband in hopes of a new relationship with someone that is hot and exciting, wouldn’t seeing a counselor first to look at your own unhappiness be a better idea? At this point in your life, you have earned watching TV on the couch with your husband and eating ice cream. The long haul that you want to throw away. Che is not the home wrecker. You are. Good luck in surprising Che in Cleveland. The surprise may end up on you. 

Charlotte, maybe find a part time job so you have something to do, or volunteer somewhere.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 minute ago, Shermie said:

Hearing aids aren’t common in someone at 55, but it happens.

Steve has worked in bars for years, all that loud music has taken a toll on his hearing.

[goldilocks]

Although I miss Samantha, I also miss the old (younger) Miranda. She had some of the best lines with her attitude.

“Maybe it's maturity or the wisdom that comes with age, but the witch in Hansel and Gretel—she's very misunderstood. I mean, the woman builds her dream house and these brats come along and start eating it.”

Miranda is totally lost in this series.

[Black Knight]

3 hours ago, ferjy said:

As we’ve all said, Miranda specifically went through the “Am I gay” stage.

That subplot was not an "Am I gay" subplot. She was set up with a woman by a guy who mistakenly thought she was gay, and there was no indication that this woman made her feel curious or questioning. They established a friendly platonic rapport. Then she realized she might be able to advance in her career if she were a lesbian and tried kissing the woman to see if there was anything there. But this was a woman she had had absolutely no romantic or sexual interest in leading up to that moment, so the fact she didn't feel anything during the kiss didn't mean anything larger. Miranda wasn't questioning at any point up to the kiss, and then she tried to force an attraction for reasons of professional ambition. It was a funny scene, but was pretty terrible in terms of accuracy (no surprise for SATC as that was par for the course with its writing of LGTBQ+ plots and characters). Straight women aren't attracted to every man, lesbians aren't attracted to every woman, bisexuals are not attracted to everybody, etc.

There's plenty wrong with Miranda's storyline, and I would have loved if Miranda/Steve had divorced prior to the start of AJLT (as someone who never believed that marriage could go the distance) and Robert came back, but to say that that subplot from the original series ruled out Miranda being queer isn't right. That subplot didn't establish anything other than that Miranda was not attracted to that particular woman.

[goldilocks]

3 hours ago, ferjy said:

I'm beginning to think the show is now written by a group of young people who think all old (remember, we're ancient at 55) couples rarely have sex, let alone oral.

 

They're (writers) definitely not anyone who has ever been asked for a divorce, especially by someone who cheated, or they'd never have belittled it like that. How in a million years did Miranda (i.e. the writers) think she hadn't made Steve feel bad?

Edited January 23, 2022 by goldilocks

[goldilocks]

8 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

That subplot didn't establish anything other than that Miranda was not attracted to that particular woman.

I have to disagree. In reality possibly, but I think in TV Land and particularly in the series it was exactly what they meant to establish. 

[Baltimore Betty]

Miranda is so caught up in the fun of her new relationship that she has not thought past the honeymoon phase to reality, sure her time with Che had been fun, sneaking around makes it naughtier, being with Them is new to Miranda but the "new" will wear off.   Miranda can have all the new relationships she wants but she will still be Miranda.

Miranda always seemed to think things thru so methodically, where did she go?

Will we see Che and Miranda a year later sitting on a couch eating ice cream?

[Bunnyette]

I did like Che telling off Miranda for not being honest with them.  I hope Miranda is very disappointed when she gets to Cleveland.  So Carrie prefers her tiny village apartment to something larger that can accommodate her wardrobe and is quieter.  It’s not like she doesn’t have the money.

[WendyCR72]

6 minutes ago, Bunnyette said:

I did like Che telling off Miranda for not being honest with them.  I hope Miranda is very disappointed when she gets to Cleveland.  So Carrie prefers her tiny village apartment to something larger that can accommodate her wardrobe and is quieter.  It’s not like she doesn’t have the money.

That doesn't really impress me where Che is concerned because Che assumed Miranda was in an open marriage. Che never asked. Miranda is terrible in this whole thing, but I also hate how Che made themselves out to be morally superior when they didn't pause to check before sticking their hand down Miranda's pants.

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

That doesn't really impress me where Che is concerned because Che assumed Miranda was in an open marriage. Che never asked. Miranda is terrible in this whole thing, but I also hate how Che made themselves out to be morally superior when they didn't pause to check before sticking their hand down Miranda's pants.

Agree. Who assumes open marriage? Che doesn't strike me as the naive type. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

That subplot was not an "Am I gay" subplot. She was set up with a woman by a guy who mistakenly thought she was gay, and there was no indication that this woman made her feel curious or questioning. They established a friendly platonic rapport. Then she realized she might be able to advance in her career if she were a lesbian and tried kissing the woman to see if there was anything there. But this was a woman she had had absolutely no romantic or sexual interest in leading up to that moment, so the fact she didn't feel anything during the kiss didn't mean anything larger. Miranda wasn't questioning at any point up to the kiss, and then she tried to force an attraction for reasons of professional ambition. It was a funny scene, but was pretty terrible in terms of accuracy (no surprise for SATC as that was par for the course with its writing of LGTBQ+ plots and characters). Straight women aren't attracted to every man, lesbians aren't attracted to every woman, bisexuals are not attracted to everybody, etc.

But that is a "Am I gay" subplot for straight people.  Straight people are straight.  There isn't much questioning.  And it was the 90s.  The point of all this is, Miranda Hobbes was straight , and if she was a Lesbian, she might have known it.  She wasn't, until this reboot came along.  Maybe this would be more believable with a character who was repressed.  Miranda wasn't repressed, she was open to the idea, hence the kissing.

Miranda openly spoke about sexuality with the other 3 women in the original SATC all of the time.  So I think that some of us big time fans roll our eyes at this revisionism of Miranda's never considered her sexuality before.  There were a lot of subplots meant to tell us that the women openly talked about it or thought about it -- Miranda unknowingly "dating" someone, Charlotte in drag, Samantha in a relationship, Carrie dating someone bisexual.  Several of the women had threesomes or entertained the thought.  Didn't Miranda express frustration to her therapist that none of her friends considered her for a threesome?  Sure these were tiny subplots in the 6 seasons but they did happen and every character expressed thoughts about it, even if those thoughts were ignorant at the time.  

I'm not saying they wrote LGBTQ+ storylines amazingly, but a lot of the people in charge of the show were gay.  People actually complained at the time that a show about 4 straight women were written by gay men.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

That subplot didn't establish anything other than that Miranda was not attracted to that particular woman.

Maybe Miranda DID find her attractive, in a, "If I'm a Lesbian, then I'll enjoy this" kind of way.  The subplot was kind of a shorthand to, Miranda didn't enjoy kissing her, not Miranda finds her unattractive.

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Agree. Who assumes open marriage? Che doesn't strike me as the naive type. 

Once again I think the show is overcorrecting and trying too hard by trying to claim that Che walking around assuming people are in an open marriage is "cool", and it's backfiring wildly.  It's just a weird way to think when we know cheating is so common.  I hear about cheating and adultery way more than I hear about open marriages, but in Che's ubercool progressive world I guess the default is that every marriage is open and they need to be told when they are actually closed .  LOL

Edited January 24, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hana Chan]

Let's be honest here. The only reason that Steve has been portrayed as a sexless, bumbling old fart is to justify Miranda's behavior. That if this was the Steve and we all knew from the original series (or even the first movie), there would have been no way to paint Miranda's behavior as sympathetic. Cheating on your long-term partner, is never "good" behavior. We saw that with Steve's infidelity and how he jumped through flaming hoops to win back her trust. Any reasons that he cited for cheating were treated as excuses, not justifications. Feeling unfulfilled wasn't allowed to be an excuse then.

So now the shoe is on the other foot and Miranda is the one unhappy with the state of their relationship and the show is going out of their way to show that yes, their marriage is really that bad and it's totally understandable that Miranda would not just want out, but would have an affair. Because why shouldn't she give in to her attraction to the dazzling Che (however debatable we might find their charms) when the husband that she felt nothing for was such an pathetic creature? 

And now we get the divorce talk, where Miranda paints their marriage as a hell that she had to escape from and putting all the blame for the state of their relationship on Steve. That with him, their life was boring and she was being suffocated and accepted no responsibility for any role that she might have played in things going so poorly between them. No, it was all Steve for not being the ball of excitement that she desired.

Now I will agree that when a marriage has broken down to this point, ending it is the best for both involved. But the show is doing everything possible to justify the cruelty that Miranda is displaying towards her husband. She's not just leaving him, but doing in an a vicious way by making it clear that he's just not good enough for her. That loving her and standing by her for so many years means nothing. He's boring and old and she's chasing something new and exciting. There is nothing that the show can do now that will make me have any sympathy for Miranda, and I only hope that Che ends up being what we suspect they will be in the end.

[yellowjacket]

 Cynthia Nixon and her wife Christine Marinoni posted pictures with Sara Ramirez on set, apparently.  Are they dumb suddenly? Like the pics were celebratory, even though the writing and at least Cynthia Nixon's acting are atrocious.  Which is a shock, really, she has 2 emmys and two Tony's, I think, and she's a lead on this new costume drama on HBO. 

And Carrie has $500 million and has to live in a walk up brownstone apartment with a clothing hoard.  That part might be accurate, considering Manhattan real estate.

Edited January 24, 2022 by yellowjacket

[ifionlyknew]

30 minutes ago, yellowjacket said:

 Cynthia Nixon and her wife Christine Marinoni posted pictures with Sara Ramirez on set, apparently.  Are they dumb suddenly? Like the pics were celebratory, even though the writing and at least Cynthia Nixon's acting are atrocious.  Which is a shock, really, she has 2 emmys and two Tony's, I think, and she's a lead on this new costume drama on HBO. 

I could be wrong but I don't think Cynthia Nixon cares how poorly received her storyline has been.  I haven't heard or read her defending it.  My opinion is she is happy her story is being told and if it ruined her character and the show oh well not her problem. 

[BrindaWalsh]

An interesting article:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/miranda-hobbes-always-gay-she-110000000.html

Except, I don't think that the writers thought this way for one moment and if they had they would have said so by now.

 

[hatchetgirl]

Argh. Everything you all saw and mentioned and more!!! I can't believe I punished myself to another episode tonight!!!

 

There end was stupid. She should have invited the young neighbor up, the two of them trying on clothes and getting to know one another as the music swelled and the end... But no. Let's have Carrie eating popcorn in a stupid expensive Versace gown, alone, because she's a widow you guys. You know she's a widow now, right? I don't want to shock anymore or spoil anything, but she's a WIDOW NOW!!!!! 

[TrueStory]

So does this show take place in a world where the first movie didn't happen?  Because I have to believe at some point someone would have brought up Steve's cheating and everything Miranda and Steve went through.  I thought a natural point would have been during the picnic, but if not you'd think Steve might have said something.  

[ivygirl]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Before the reboot aired, I made jokes about Miranda running for governor, Samantha pretending to be a mannequin in a mall, blah blah.  I didn't realize they were actually going to do something so insane.

Hey, you never know! We still have a couple episodes to go! 😂😂😂

2 hours ago, yellowjacket said:

 Cynthia Nixon and her wife Christine Marinoni posted pictures with Sara Ramirez on set, apparently.  Are they dumb suddenly? Like the pics were celebratory, even though the writing and at least Cynthia Nixon's acting are atrocious.  Which is a shock, really, she has 2 emmys and two Tony's, I think, and she's a lead on this new costume drama on HBO. 

The “And Just Like That” Instagram account—which I realize is there for marketing purposes—also pretends that everyone’s in love with all these storylines, too. Like, everyone views Che as a hilarious and inspiring figure who can do no wrong, and their relationship with Miranda is like kismet or something. I mean, sure. Some people do. And others might say “well, I am not in love with the character, but I appreciate that the showrunners are being more inclusive in their casting and storylines.” But going by the discussion here on this episode alone, it’s certainly not an accurate representation of how people feel in toto. It’s like everything about this show operates in a vacuum that’s completely divorced from actual reality. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by ivygirl

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, BrindaWalsh said:

An interesting article:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/miranda-hobbes-always-gay-she-110000000.html

Except, I don't think that the writers thought this way for one moment and if they had they would have said so by now.

This article does a good job at bringing up even more subplots that I forgot about, like Miranda declaring that she had a big Lesbian phase in grade school.

I could see Miranda maybe being in love with Carrie.   Other than that Original Version Miranda didn't show that much interest in people outside of a few men.  OG Miranda had disdain for most people and we even saw her completely unimpressed at comedy shows.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[ChattyCathyLA]

14 hours ago, ferjy said:

Not sure if it’s been said yet (I’m still filtering through all the posts, it’s an active thread!) but Charlotte got over her BJ squeamishness when she met Trey. There was a scene like the one you mention above where they are surprised she is doing them after her initial aversion. 

Charlotte blew Trey?  I don’t remember that.  All I remember is that he couldn’t keep an erection!

[ChattyCathyLA]

I think my previous comment about Miranda ending up with Robert was misunderstood.  It wasn’t about “partying”.   I was just thinking that, if she had been living a more “stimulating” and “intellectually fulfilling” life with Robert … instead of just sitting on the sofa and eating ice cream while watching Netflix every night with Steve, she might not have become so bored and unsatisfied.  I mean … does anyone think that Steve was capable of carrying on an intellectual conversation with Miranda on her level?  There was a REASON for their nightly ritual!  What else could they do after work?  Discuss the concepts in the books Miranda is reading?  Current events?  With Robert, she would have been half of a “power couple” — he’s a doctor and she’s a Harvard educated lawyer!   I don’t know if they would have gotten married, but IMO, all the speculation about him leaving her for a cheerleader is moot … because he could have had one of those girls anytime, yet he wanted intellectual Miranda!  

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, ivygirl said:

The “And Just Like That” Instagram account—which I realize is there for marketing purposes—also pretends that everyone’s in love with all these storylines, too.

I think it's tricky when it comes to queer characters and characters of color.  There is so much bias out there, both outright and subconscious bias that many fans don't even realize they have.  As a result, these characters can end up being judged more harshly for things cis and/or straight characters do too.

And because that's a very real thing, it can be very easy to dismiss real criticism borne of crappy story telling.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's where TPTB are landing.  They're not realizing that many people who hate this story would be embracing if it were told with any amount of competence.  It's so much denial of their own weaknesses just like they can't acknowledge their weakness with the Steve story. 

5 minutes ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

I was just thinking that, if she had been living a more “stimulating” and “intellectually fulfilling” life with Robert … instead of just sitting on the sofa and eating ice cream while watching Netflix every night with Steve, she might not have become so bored and unsatisfied.  I mean … does anyone think that Steve was capable of carrying on an intellectual conversation with Miranda on her level?  There was a REASON for their nightly ritual!  

Miranda liked doing the kind of thing she now looks down at Steve for. This is the character who had plotlines about bingeing a show and being upset when her DVR screwed up.

I don't remember Robert too well but why is Robert someone who is going to be intellectual? A reader?  Into current events?  He is well educated, especially in his field, but that doesn't mean he reads Proust on the weekend.  (Unless he does and I totally forgot about it.) That's the thing about both med school and law school, they're very focused on the profession they teach.

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't remember Robert too well but why is Robert someone who is going to be intellectual? A reader?  Into current events?  He is well educated, especially in his field, but that doesn't mean he reads Proust on the weekend.  (Unless he does and I totally forgot about it.) That's the thing about both med school and law school, they're very focused on the profession they teach.

Irlandesa is speaking my lived truth all over the place lately. The docs and lawyers I know, who are around the age Robert was at SATC time, aren't that much different "off the clock" from people I know with service jobs. They watch sports. They play video games. They binge on the latest season of whatever just hit Netflix. When they see a movie, it's as likely to be a Marvel movie as it is the prestigious awards bait (although some of those too). Most of their experience with great literature is whatever they were assigned to read decades ago.

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Irlandesa is speaking my lived truth all over the place lately. The docs and lawyers I know, who are around the age Robert was at SATC time, aren't that much different "off the clock" from people I know with service jobs. They watch sports. They play video games. They binge on the latest season of whatever just hit Netflix. When they see a movie, it's as likely to be a Marvel movie as it is the prestigious awards bait (although some of those too). Most of their experience with great literature is whatever they were assigned to read decades ago.

Yes! Lots of people with demanding careers get so exhausted from work they don’t necessarily love to read literature or keep up with news and politics once they’re home. They want to watch TV and relax like everyone else. And sometimes people who don’t have the grind of a medical or law career have more time end energy to keep up with current events, read and have other hobbies. 

[Pestilentia]

5 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

does anyone think that Steve was capable of carrying on an intellectual conversation with Miranda on her level?

Yes.  

Steve was always presented as a "bartender that went a bit deeper" from the moment we first met him reading behind the bar.    

Quote

There was a REASON for their nightly ritual!  What else could they do after work?  Discuss the concepts in the books Miranda is reading?  Current events?

Is it really that much of a stretch to think a bar owner could hold a conversation or appreciate anything in life other than a cold brew? He's not a doddering idiot. Are we really judging someone's intelligence and ability to hold a 'stimulating conversation' by their career choice? An affable nature does not preclude an inquiring mind or an ability to speak, nor does an MD after one's name make someone an intellectual titan or a desirable partner.  Honestly, we need to apologize to bartenders everywhere after this!    

 

 

[beagletime]

55 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

Yes.  

Steve was always presented as a "bartender that went a bit deeper" from the moment we first met him reading behind the bar.    

Is it really that much of a stretch to think a bar owner could hold a conversation or appreciate anything in life other than a cold brew? He's not a doddering idiot. Are we really judging someone's intelligence and ability to hold a 'stimulating conversation' by their career choice? An affable nature does not preclude an inquiring mind or an ability to speak, nor does an MD after one's name make someone an intellectual titan or a desirable partner.  Honestly, we need to apologize to bartenders everywhere after this!    

 

 

When they went on the honeymoon, Steve had a book with him.  Steve was happy to relax and read.  He was shown as someone who enjoyed reading.  Miranda was upset over the lack of television or other distractions.  Steve also owned a successful bar.  Owning a business takes a lot of determination and intelligence.  Outside of being a lawyer Miranda watched TV, ate carryout and hung around with Carrie.  Even before Steve her life wasn't the Algonquin Round Table.

 

 

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Pestilentia said:

Yes.  

Steve was always presented as a "bartender that went a bit deeper" from the moment we first met him reading behind the bar.    

Is it really that much of a stretch to think a bar owner could hold a conversation or appreciate anything in life other than a cold brew? He's not a doddering idiot. Are we really judging someone's intelligence and ability to hold a 'stimulating conversation' by their career choice? An affable nature does not preclude an inquiring mind or an ability to speak, nor does an MD after one's name make someone an intellectual titan or a desirable partner.  Honestly, we need to apologize to bartenders everywhere after this!    

 

 

As some people like to remind us Alexandria Ocasio Cortez was once a bartender.  I think there is a misconception that if you are working a blue collar job it's because you aren't smart enough to have a white collar job.  Which isn't true.  Steve grew up in Queens and came from a working class background.  Doesn't mean he isn't smart.  He was smart enough to partner with Aidan and open his own bar. And as far as we know it's still doing well.

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Miranda liked doing the kind of thing she now looks down at Steve for. This is the character who had plotlines about bingeing a show and being upset when her DVR screwed up.

Yes.  Miranda wasn't some highbrow hoity toity woman watching Masterpiece Theater.  She liked sports and ate pizza.

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that's where TPTB are landing.  They're not realizing that many people who hate this story would be embracing if it were told with any amount of competence.  It's so much denial of their own weaknesses just like they can't acknowledge their weakness with the Steve story. 

I think  a lot of us predicted Miranda would fall for a woman.  And if what I heard was true Che was initially supposed to be a woman but once Sara Ramirez who is non binary was hired they had Che non binary as well.   And there is not one person I've talked to or read a comment written by that has a problem with Miranda falling for a non binary character.  The problem is how they wrote the story.  

And that story if I'm being honest has me perplexed.  I can't make up my mind if they  wrote this as as a straight up two people meet and they fall in love and it doesn't matter if one of them is married because true love and blah blah blah.  Or if they wrote this as a woman who is unhappy in her marriage and clings to the first life raft she finds and when that blows up in her face realizes she needs to fix herself before trying to be with someone else.  

If the writers did write this as a "love story" boy did they read the room wrong. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by ifionlyknew

[Jillybean]

1 hour ago, beagletime said:

When they went on the honeymoon, Steve had a book with him.  Steve was happy to relax and read.  He was shown as someone who enjoyed reading.  Miranda was upset over the lack of television or other distractions.  Steve also owned a successful bar.  Owning a business takes a lot of determination and intelligence.  Outside of being a lawyer Miranda watched TV, ate carryout and hung around with Carrie.  Even before Steve her life wasn't the Algonquin Round Table.

Don't forget she had to have her Tattletale rag!

[T Summer]

 I agree 1000% that what the AJLT writers are doing to the character Steve is a straight up travesty, making him appear as though he has some intellectual impairment just because he has need of hearing aids!

That said, I always wondered why the writers seemed to dumb Steve down after that first meeting at the bar? He was working, reading a book and when Miranda  got  annoyed at his little yes-Steve thank you-Steve routine, she was about to leave and he begged her to stay and talk to him, lest he have to listen to college kids discuss Fiona Apple.

Then not all that long after they start seeing each other he's disturbing her with Scooby Doo cartoons he's  laughing along with, and then he's talking like winning a million bucks for making a basketball free throw at Madison Square Garden  is in the bag.

Steve fixed Miranda's TIVO  so she could watch her favorite program, Jules and Mimi on the BBC.   When they hadn't been together  long Steve impulsively said to Miranda at a restaurant lets do it, lets have a kid. It turned out he couldn't  even be responsible for the puppy they [he] got. It appeared to me the diminution of Steve Brady's intellect started way back then, but this? THIS is on a whole other level!

In fairness to Miranda, Steve always credited her with encouraging him to buy his own bar. He said he wouldn't have done it otherwise. She also all but dragged him to a doctor when the poor guy had testicular cancer. She  advised him against that experimental prosthesis, which he was about to jump at without getting all the facts.

I think most people regard attorneys as highly intelligent to be able to remember tons of case law, write legal briefs  and  argue cases in court.  She did get her law degree from  Harvard, after all. Miranda was also on the  tenant's board   of the building where she bought her apartment, that's why she was interviewing Robert in the first place. So all in all I'd say the Miranda character was always smart, savvy and quick witted.

I don't know who this new  Miranda is! 🙄

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think Robert seemed smart.  I do not think he seemed stupid.  We also didn't see him play one video game so I don't know where that came from.  What we did see is that Miranda was enjoying a show and Robert made a real effort to enjoy it with her.  I agree, that Robert seemed interested in Miranda's brain, and not just her body and playing video games.

I know there is a group that think Blair Underwood is gross and David whatever is hot, but there is definitely a group of us who think the opposite.  I see no reason why Miranda wouldn't find Dr. Robert engaging and stimulating.

[lovinbob]

On 1/20/2022 at 10:55 PM, Lola82 said:

And how selfish of Carrie to call her coworker at 2:30am. She knows nothing about his life but she knows he’s awake at that time? And she calls to ask such a stupid question.

That is a text question if ever there was one. Carrie has very poor impulse control. 

On 1/21/2022 at 11:37 AM, MaggieG said:

I just can't handle Miranda when she is with Che. She acts like a lunatic with that insane smile of hers. "I'm in a rom-com!" Barf.

 

On 1/21/2022 at 12:38 PM, RedHawk said:

Sometimes I think Miranda is supposed to seem this goofy and stupidly "in love" because maybe they're setting her up for a big fall. A lot of us are posting about how Miranda should have behaved, especially with Steve, but we all know that people quite often don't behave as they should. This type of middle-aged thing where someone meets someone new and gets all crazy and leaves their spouse or partner -- well, it happens. So they're depicting that, and while we don't think SATC Miranda would have done any of this, apparently AJLT Miranda does. Now I'm wondering if we're going to get Che in a Cleveland hotel with someone else (maybe a man?) and Miranda getting a sharp shock, or will it indeed be a rom-com where Che welcomes her with open arms and Miranda totally is into a new non-trad lifestyle? With these writers I really can't predict. 

If I had any faith in the writers, I would say, Yes, Miranda is supposed to come across as a bit unhinged, swept up my a new passion that shed not experienced before. I would think that maybe Che triggered an awakening for Miranda, and that while Che is not Miranda’s end game, it showed Miranda that there is something else out there for her. 
“In love with”? Having transformative sex does not equal falling in love. Or is that an outdated notion I have because I’m not progressive enough?

On 1/21/2022 at 2:17 PM, monagatuna said:

I do still find Che fiercely hot, and Sara Ramirez is doing the best they can with a shitty script--the sputtering and trying to find their place in their speech when they saw Miranda trying to dart out of the rally was really well done. (I didn't realize SR was NB, my apologies for referring to them as "she/her" in other threads.) I wouldn't blow up my life for them, but I do enjoy looking at them. 

100%. I’m hetero and have never been interested in pursuing anyone who’s non-binary, but Sara Ramirez is very appealing! Have always found them sexy, since their days on Grey’s. (Che, not so much. Not a fan of the character.)

On 1/22/2022 at 1:26 AM, Irlandesa said:

It’s a rush to be wanted.  And whatever is making Miranda unhappy, being with Che is providing a rush that is likely keeping her away from discovering what's really wrong.

Agree completely. 

On 1/22/2022 at 1:57 PM, RedHawk said:

Let's talk about Lisette. … I'm glad she called Carrie cool so now Carrie can stop acting so insecure around her. Carrie has success and wealth, why worry so much about what some young chit thinks?  

As much as I HATED that Carrie behaved this way, I think it makes sense. Carrie doesn’t know who she is anymore. When she last lived in that apartment, she was the cool young thing staying up all night and having relationship drama. She settled down with big and moved to a very different home where her lifestyle was night and day from Lisette’s (and young Carrie’s). Her beloved husband died suddenly and now she doesn’t know who she is.

She is very lucky that she has the means to explore this identity crisis comfortably. 🤣

On 1/22/2022 at 4:34 PM, Cementhead said:

I, for one, am still 100% distracted by Kristin Davis's fucked up mouth; so much so that I can't stop staring at it in every single scene she is 

I think it keeps her from communicating clearly. Part of why her speech is so stilted, IMO. 

ETA: I forgot to say I found the lunch conversation bizarre. Miranda drops a life altering bomb and they spend a few seconds on it before getting caught up in the blow job. That could have been a great opportunity to bring it back to Miranda who might say, I should want to have that kind of chemistry and passion with Steve, and I don't. I feel like that could be a helpful analogy AND it would make the friends seem a little more attentive. If anything, Carrie and Charlotte's reactions to Miranda's news reinforce that Miranda is unrecognizable to the people who know her best. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by lovinbob

[SlovakPrincess]

4 hours ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Irlandesa is speaking my lived truth all over the place lately. The docs and lawyers I know, who are around the age Robert was at SATC time, aren't that much different "off the clock" from people I know with service jobs. They watch sports. They play video games. They binge on the latest season of whatever just hit Netflix. When they see a movie, it's as likely to be a Marvel movie as it is the prestigious awards bait (although some of those too). Most of their experience with great literature is whatever they were assigned to read decades ago.

Yep, I can attest that us lawyers, at least, love trash TV and lounging as much as the next person.  😁   There was more than one senior partner at my last firm who would shyly admit they watched The Bachelor (one of them claimed his wife forced him to, but you could tell he was actually really into it LOL).

I actually am still very into reading challenging literature for fun, but I totally get it when other lawyers and doctors say they just don't find any reading off the clock enjoyable anymore, after years of study and research.  People need to unwind, and Miranda was no different.  Her off hours were spent going out with her friends, dating, and watching TV / movies most of the time. 

The issue with Steve in the original series was not that he was anti-intellectual, exactly, he was just not very ambitious or financially secure.  He was immature in certain ways (i.e., Miranda having to yell at him so he'd get better medical care when he had cancer), but I don't recall Miranda ever saying in the original series that they had little to talk about.  

Edited January 24, 2022 by SlovakPrincess