And Just Like That in the Media

[Hana Chan]

The problem with the Samantha/KC situation is that they didn't just leave it alone. As much as I disliked how they explained her absence, the show gave a reason why Samantha was gone and they should have left it as that. Instead they kept bringing Samantha into the storylines with the unnecessary texts. It would be one thing if the texts were actually pivotal and important to moving the stories along, but they were just incidental. All they did was remind the audience that one member of the group isn't there and wasn't the show so  much better when Samantha was around.

If SJP and the show runners are annoyed at KC constantly being brought up, they have no one to blame but themselves because they didn't leave the situation alone. They were the ones who made a big deal about Samantha and keeping her a fixture in the storyline long after KC made it abundantly clear that nothing short of a gun to her head would make her even consider returning to the show. I agree that we don't know what went on behind the scenes, but it's obvious that there is a lot of bad blood and KC made it very clear that she would not come back. Why SJP and the show couldn't leave her out of it speaks more about them than anything else.

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

They keep talking about the beautiful and touching way they found to keep Samantha still a part of the story in AJLT, and I didn't see it that way. It was more like, "See? Samantha the character is a better person than Kim the actress. She took the opportunity of a family death to mend fences."

The Samantha-texting scenes aren't high on the list of things I disliked, but I might have been happier if they had just dropped the Samantha thread after revealing in the premiere that she was living somewhere else and wasn't in contact with the remaining three anymore.  

About SJP and MPK saying they wouldn't welcome her back, I can't tell whether that's really the way they feel or it's Br'er Rabbit reverse psychology. Like, talking in the press about how the door is closed is supposed to make her want to open it a crack.

Honestly, given the quality of the show, she's better off being uninvolved. I can only imagine the awful storyline she'd have been asked to play.

I don't take a side either to whatever feud Kim/SJP had, but so far, Kim has been proven right. She didn't want to take on the 3rd movie because it would have had Big die early in the film and the rest of the movie having everyone console Carrie. That's exactly in AJLT. Also, she didn't take kindly to a part of the script where Brady was caught masturbating to her. Well, that didn't  happen in AJLT, but all of Brady's storyline was that he was a horned out teenager. 

And it seems SATC wasn't all roses as well, in light of the allegations that Noth was already showing predatory behavior DURING filming of the series. 

Personally, I think Samantha's involvement should have ended when she sent the flowers to Big's funeral and Carrie accepted them. It implies that while they will probably never get along ever again, that they're still in each other's thoughts fondly. The text messages after that episode just seem unnecessary, although it's nice to imagine they did make up after all in Paris. Too bad the other ladies couldn't make it.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

The problem with the Samantha/KC situation is that they didn't just leave it alone. As much as I disliked how they explained her absence, the show gave a reason why Samantha was gone and they should have left it as that. Instead they kept bringing Samantha into the storylines with the unnecessary texts. It would be one thing if the texts were actually pivotal and important to moving the stories along, but they were just incidental. All they did was remind the audience that one member of the group isn't there and wasn't the show so  much better when Samantha was around.

If SJP and the show runners are annoyed at KC constantly being brought up, they have no one to blame but themselves because they didn't leave the situation alone. They were the ones who made a big deal about Samantha and keeping her a fixture in the storyline long after KC made it abundantly clear that nothing short of a gun to her head would make her even consider returning to the show. I agree that we don't know what went on behind the scenes, but it's obvious that there is a lot of bad blood and KC made it very clear that she would not come back. Why SJP and the show couldn't leave her out of it speaks more about them than anything else.

Yes, all they had to say was that Sam moved to London and they lost touch. Instead, they had to go into BS about how the awesome Carrie Bradshaw/Preston had to fire her as a publicist and Samantha resented her for it.

Also, why the Hell would she use Carrie as an ATM? That’s not Samantha’s style.

 

[slowpoked]

18 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

And most importantly, what happened to the original’s elegant storytelling, its deft balance of humor and pathos, its graceful way of bringing together disparate plotlines into a well-crafted theme?

SATC's storytelling was heavily anchored by Carrie's narration. I've been watching AJLT side by side with SATC, and wow, does Carrie's narration make a huge difference. 

Quote

its deft balance of humor and pathos,

SATC might be way raunchier than AJLT, but it did achieve the perfect balance described above. I've just recently watched the abortion storyline on SATC, and that push and pull between Charlotte and Miranda was beautifully executed, and in the end, when Charlotte visited with flowers thinking Miranda had an abortion, and then that surprise reveal that Miranda didn't do it, and Charlotte cried and exclaimed, "We're having a baby???" - those human moments, I miss a lot in AJLT. 

[Hana Chan]

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I don't take a side either to whatever feud Kim/SJP had, but so far, Kim has been proven right. She didn't want to take on the 3rd movie because it would have had Big die early in the film and the rest of the movie having everyone console Carrie. That's exactly in AJLT. Also, she didn't take kindly to a part of the script where Brady was caught masturbating to her. Well, that didn't  happen in AJLT, but all of Brady's storyline was that he was a horned out teenager. 

And it seems SATC wasn't all roses as well, in light of the allegations that Noth was already showing predatory behavior DURING filming of the series. 

Personally, I think Samantha's involvement should have ended when she sent the flowers to Big's funeral and Carrie accepted them. It implies that while they will probably never get along ever again, that they're still in each other's thoughts fondly. The text messages after that episode just seem unnecessary, although it's nice to imagine they did make up after all in Paris. Too bad the other ladies couldn't make it.

I totally agree with this. KC had her own reasons for not wanting to be involved with the franchise any further and that was that as far as she was concerned. She didn't have to play "friends" with the others anymore, which is understandable if she was excluded from the bond formed by SJP, CN and KD. It had been a decade since she left the show and wanted it in her rear view mirror.

A lot of the response to the Samantha question from SJP and the show runners feels way too much like "Well, we never wanted you in the first place!" It's childish and petty and they could have avoided the constant questions about KC returning for a possible season 2 (please, Gods, but no!) could have been avoided if they didn't constantly have Carrie texting with Samantha. 

As far as a second season goes... if they get any kind of award consideration, then it will happen. Here's hoping that they get totally shut out of the Emmys. 

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I totally agree with this. KC had her own reasons for not wanting to be involved with the franchise any further and that was that as far as she was concerned. She didn't have to play "friends" with the others anymore, which is understandable if she was excluded from the bond formed by SJP, CN and KD. It had been a decade since she left the show and wanted it in her rear view mirror.

A lot of the response to the Samantha question from SJP and the show runners feels way too much like "Well, we never wanted you in the first place!" It's childish and petty and they could have avoided the constant questions about KC returning for a possible season 2 (please, Gods, but no!) could have been avoided if they didn't constantly have Carrie texting with Samantha. 

As far as a second season goes... if they get any kind of award consideration, then it will happen. Here's hoping that they get totally shut out of the Emmys. 

Emmy nominations aren't announced till summer.  I would think they would decide before then.  If they don't they would be filming in Fall assuming the scripts were already written. And if the actor's were available.  SJP is getting ready to do Broadway right?

[Spartan Girl]

I would just like to add my two cents on the bullshit claim that the AJLT audience has a problem with non-binary people: my friend and her non-binary partner BOTH hated the show, especially the Miranda storyline. They personally felt it made the LGBTQ community look bad. They actually quit watching after a couple episodes, they were that pissed about it.

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I don't take a side either to whatever feud Kim/SJP had, but so far, Kim has been proven right. She didn't want to take on the 3rd movie because it would have had Big die early in the film and the rest of the movie having everyone console Carrie. That's exactly in AJLT. Also, she didn't take kindly to a part of the script where Brady was caught masturbating to her. Well, that didn't  happen in AJLT, but all of Brady's storyline was that he was a horned out teenager. 

And it seems SATC wasn't all roses as well, in light of the allegations that Noth was already showing predatory behavior DURING filming of the series. 

Personally, I think Samantha's involvement should have ended when she sent the flowers to Big's funeral and Carrie accepted them. It implies that while they will probably never get along ever again, that they're still in each other's thoughts fondly. The text messages after that episode just seem unnecessary, although it's nice to imagine they did make up after all in Paris. Too bad the other ladies couldn't make it.

I also didn't take a side, but I did find the writing for Samantha on AJLT to be an f you to Kim, and that does make SJP look mean girl. And trust me, I say that as a big SJP fan. I think she's a wonderful actress, and everyone else she's worked with like her. I still just want to think it's a clash of personalities. 

And yes I selfishly wanted more Samantha, but after this season, Kim made the right decision. I watch AJLT because I adore SATC, not because of its wonderful writing. 

I'm still creeped out by the movie storylines. Kim is a knockout, but Samantha would have been like an aunt to Brady. Gross. 

I'm alone in this, but I teared up when I saw Samantha texting Carrie. I don't love how they handled Samantha's departure either, but hearing back from someone you love and haven't seen in awhile, it's such a beautiful feeling. Getting older and drifting apart from friends, you treasure your friendships so much more. Even when someone hasn't been perfect sometimes it's like, life's too short, and I fucking love you. Who wouldn't miss Samantha? I'm sure Carrie would miss their conversations, laughs, Sam's stories, all of it. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

😂😂😂

 

[tennisgurl]

Ready for some fun with our "favorite" character? 

https://www.marieclaire.com.au/and-just-like-that-che-diaz-memes-reactions

[Alice Mudgarden]

And most of us wouldn't be okay with AJLT returning at all.

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

Also, why the Hell would she use Carrie as an ATM? That’s not Samantha’s style.

Also also, like Samantha needs Carrie to make money. Samantha's loaded. Give me a break, show.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Alice Mudgarden

[violet and green]

SJP wouldn't be happy with KC returning?! Hahahaha.

Worth watching this interview, from 2017, when KC makes her position re returning abundantly clear.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

 

[JeanJean]

On 2/3/2022 at 2:00 PM, lamadeleine said:

OMG. Yes.

It bugs the shit out of me when I hear this assertion that fans are "too sentimental about the past", "unable to let characters change/move on/be different", blah, blah, blah. I don't consider myself any of those things. I consider myself to be someone who has CONTEXT with these characters and just expected AJLT to move forward with the same care and consideration to these characters as they did in SATC. I had no problem with Miranda "blowing up her life" on paper, but I expected/wanted it to unfold in a way that was messy, glorious, sometimes funny, sometimes infuriating and painful, and always human. What I got was a story line that was sloppily conceived and written with all the corners cut in order to make this life-change happen in a 10 episode arc. What I got was a supposedly life-altering love interest in Che, who from a writing perspective, never transcended beyond "plot device" (and I don't actually fault SR for this- I'm one of those Grey's Anatomy dinosaurs and have seen how believable, layered, and wonderful they are when given good material). So, yes, indeed- the call is coming from inside the house.

Seriously. My first thought on reading that was, what if they had Brokeback Mountain 2 and Jake and Ennis (I know, Jake died, etc.) were now determinedly, happily hetero and everything that happened in the original was shrugged off? I'd feel ripped off by the original, which is one of my most-loved movies.

I felt ripped off, too, by the original Roseanne finale, where they switched the couples. I've always wished they'd go back and redo the voiceover to take that out.

They don't get that it's not Miranda's sexuality that's the issue, it's her mindboggling thoughtlessness toward everyone. And it's them saying that loyal viewers of the original series (most of whom have watched every episode more than once) didn't see what we saw. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by JeanJean

[pennben]

20 hours ago, Lethallyfab said:

They want to throw shade at her but simultaneously want Kim back SO BAD that I guess we should be thankful that they haven’t trotted out Kim’s hologram a la Tupac or 

  Hide contents

Mark Hamill, whose entire voice in the Star Wars’ shows is the product of an AI called Respeecher.

do they?  SJP seemed to shut that notion without hesitation. Blame them for lots of wrongs this season, this does not seem like one of them. 

[Hana Chan]

I'm sure that SJP would rather have her wisdom teeth extracted without novocain before welcoming KC back. That is, on the remote chance that KC develops retroactive amnesia and forgets why she wanted nothing to do with the show anymore. The problem for SJC is that the show really needed KC and Samantha. Her absence left a big hole in the show and the relationships between all the characters was seriously out of balance. All you have to do is watch any episode from the original series and see just how superior a show it was to AJLT.

In a way, the title of the reboot makes sense. Because there was such a disconnect with everything from the original series and movies that this storyline started Just Like That.

[JeanJean]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:52 PM, ruby24 said:

Where Miranda is saying she never even loved him?

If Miranda knew she never loved him and married him anyway, that's worse than her cheating. That means she stole years of his life when he might have found someone who really did love him. 

It would have been better if the writers had owned that Miranda handled it all incredibly selfishly. Good people can behave selfishly. But it's like they're mad that people are calling the character out on their thoughtlessness and not liking her as much because of it and they're saying that people shouldn't do that. As an audience, we have a right to react to storylines and character choices, so dont make it a failing on our part. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by JeanJean

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

😂😂😂

 

THAT is fucking flawless.

[pennben]

32 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

 

I'm sure that SJP would rather have her wisdom teeth extracted without novocain before welcoming KC back. That is, on the remote chance that KC develops retroactive amnesia and forgets why she wanted nothing to do with the show anymore. The problem for SJC is that the show really needed KC and Samantha. Her absence left a big hole in the show and the

 

Maybe. But SJP & MKP were  quite definitive that KC would not be asked or welcomed. Wasn’t even a ‘would you dial her up’? It was a we have no interest at all in pursuing her. Fair for them, fair for her in staying away after she indicated she had zero in revisiting role again. All sides are covered. 

[JeanJean]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:16 PM, Jillybean said:

And Just Like That… we’ve got a Miranda Hobbes problem

Good perspective from AV Club.

 

Thanks for posting that. It's the best article I've read on AJLT so far and nails what viewers' problems with Miranda are vs what the writers and showrunners want to think they are.

[Hana Chan]

8 hours ago, pennben said:

Maybe. But SJP & MKP were  quite definitive that KC would not be asked or welcomed. Wasn’t even a ‘would you dial her up’? It was a we have no interest at all in pursuing her. Fair for them, fair for her in staying away after she indicated she had zero in revisiting role again. All sides are covered. 

And I have no problem with them shutting the door on KC returning on the remote chance that she might entertain the idea. The problem is that by constantly bringing up Samantha on the show with the repeated texts right through the finale, they kept her character in the picture and kept the media poking at the question of KC possibly coming back in the second season. They basicaly turned Samantha into a Chekov's Gun and you know that a big rule of storytelling is that you don't introduce an element like that and not have it mean something.

The way they could have taken the media and fan attention off of KC was not to mention Samantha or do the texts past Big's funeral. SJP and the writers are at fault for keeping this going and then acting all offended that KC should even be considered to return. And with the total dumpster fire that AJLT turned into, KC is looking very smart by keeping away and just throwing some subtle shade.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Hana Chan

[JeanJean]

On 1/22/2022 at 1:36 AM, Irlandesa said:

Kristin Davis was on watch what happens live and was asked whether or not she thought Che was funny.  She kind of laughed and intended to deflect the question before saying she thought they were supposed to be more reflective funny than ha ha funny.

I took it to mean that even she didn't think Che was funny.

It's tricky to make a character a standup comic and then come up with brilliant standup comedy for them. Good standup is hard. Part of the reason, maybe, comics will come up with a good 10 minute routine and do it over and over.

This, for me, was a problem with "Seinfeld." The show was very funny but Jerry's standup routines were often mediocre (although Seinfeld himself has some very funny standup material). 

Sara R.'s a very good singer - they should have made her a singer, maybe. Singers/musicians can certainly be left of center.

[T Summer]

That we didn't ask Kim Catrall and wouldn't want her on AJLT anyway seems like some face saving and posturing. Whether it is or it isn't, I couldn't help but notice SJP and MPK seem unconcerned about what the audience would enjoy most.

[JeanJean]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, LemonSoda said:

 (example: the eye contact between Miranda & Carrie when Brady is born) that always hit me hard. It baffles me how they could create so many magical moments and center it around mush. 
 

I  miss that Miranda, the one who said at that moment, "It's like all of a sudden there's a giraffe in the room." (Something like that.) And yes, people change but she's lost her depth and heart.

[LemonSoda]

Just now, JeanJean said:

I  miss that Miranda, the one who said at that moment, "It's like all of a sudden there's a giraffe in the room." (Something like that.) And yes, people change but she's lost her depth and heart.

It sounds like I’ll miss that Miranda too. Due to life getting busy and my own fears I haven’t made it past episode 3

[JeanJean]

Another thing is that Miranda was always kind of nonconformist. She didn't want a "regular" wedding, she didn't want the baptism but did it for Steve, she bought her own apartment, she didn't want to move to a more family-friendly apartment, and she wrestled with things... So it's not that the audience is going "We want straight-laced, 'norm-observing' Miranda back." She never was that in SATC (the series). She might have still klutzed up her exit from her marriage, there would be no way to do that without there being hurt, but she would have tried to take Steve and Brady into consideration as she navigated her way into a different life. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by JeanJean

[violet and green]

Re the problem with Miranda. Very succinct:

'And Just Like That' Ruined Miranda - The Atlantic

eta: weird link fail, worth googling title and reading...

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by violet and green
eta

[RedHawk]

6 hours ago, violet and green said:

Re the problem with Miranda. Very succinct:

'And Just Like That' Ruined Miranda - The Atlantic

eta: weird link fail, worth googling title and reading...

 

The Atlantic changed the article title to “We Need to Talk About Miranda”. (They seem to do that often.) Yes, good article, sums up and explains a lot of our complaints. 
 

ETA: Another good article about Che, Miranda, and the show’s failures from The Independent.

Edited February 5, 2022 by RedHawk

[Hana Chan]

7 hours ago, JeanJean said:

Another thing is that Miranda was always kind of nonconformist. She didn't want a "regular" wedding, she didn't want the baptism but did it for Steve, she bought her own apartment, she didn't want to move to a more family-friendly apartment, and she wrestled with things... So it's not that the audience is going "We want straight-laced, 'norm-observing' Miranda back." She never was that in SATC (the series). She might have still klutzed up her exit from her marriage, there would be no way to do that without there being hurt, but she would have tried to take Steve and Brady into consideration as she navigated her way into a different life. 

To be fair, the original series ended with none of the women (except for Carrie) ending up as they might have thought they would when SITC first started. Charlotte did marry the perfect society man and the marriage was a disaster. She found happiness with her fat, hairy Jewish divorce lawyer. Samantha would never settle down, but found herself genuinely in love with a sweet young actor who stood by her during the darkest moments of her life. Carrie did end up with her idealized partner, but we were shown how toxic and destructive her relationship with Big was. As for Miranda.... yes, the plan for her life got upended by the unexpected pregnancy but in the end, she chose Steve. She chased after him and made the choice that this quiet, unassuming man was the one she wanted to spend her life with. And she found herself happy and fulfilled with the compromises that she had to make in order for her family to be secure.

It's okay to write a story that she became discontented with that life and yearned for the excitement of her early years (the midlife crisis) but how they handled it was a travesty. That she never loved Steve and that the child that she chose to have and upended her life to raise would not be a consideration at all in her choices of how to end things. They made Miranda, who was always clever and deliberate with her choices a flightily, careless twit who got swept away with this new love and the hell with how this affected anyone else.  A show can write any story they want for a character, but if they don't take into account what a character's actual history was and what the audience remembers (rather than how they just want to present it in the current story), then it shouldn't come as a surprise that the majority of the audience rejects it.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Hana Chan

[bluegirl147]

57 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

The Atlantic changed the article title to “We Need to Talk About Miranda”. (They seem to do that often.) Yes, good article, sums up and explains a lot of our complaints. 
 

ETA: Another good article about Miranda and the show’s failures from The Independent.

The Independent article brought up a point I have thought the show has sadly been pushing.  That "living your truth" means you can do whatever makes you happy with no regrets of how it may hurt someone else.

On SATC when the women were doing something that needed called out they were called out. No matter how much your friends love you sometimes they need to tell you what an asshole you are being. Miranda was being an asshole for much of this reboot.  And I think this applies to Cynthia Nixon too.  Was there not someone who could have told her Miranda and Che don't make sense and while your notes are appreciated we are sticking with the storyline we have already written?

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

The Independent article brought up a point I have thought the show has sadly been pushing.  That "living your truth" means you can do whatever makes you happy with no regrets of how it may hurt someone else.

On SATC when the women were doing something that needed called out they were called out. No matter how much your friends love you sometimes they need to tell you what an asshole you are being. Miranda was being an asshole for much of this reboot.  And I think this applies to Cynthia Nixon too.  Was there not someone who could have told her Miranda and Che don't make sense and while your notes are appreciated we are sticking with the storyline we have already written?

Yes, I think that is where we viewers are rightfully offended. We are presented well-known and (for some) beloved characters now in their mid 50s and we had imagined we'd see growth and maturity along with some drama and a few well-timed laughs. We expected we'd see the strong friendships continuing, which indeed means sometimes calling out unethical or self-destructive or just plain asshole behavior. Instead we see this character's regression as she is made to act out and it seems justify Cynthia Nixon's real-life journey toward "happiness" and "freedom" from an unfulfilling life of her own making. And there are no consequences; it all seems to be "happily ever after", no regard for anyone left behind much less wounded.

Will MPK and the writers' room take these "notes" and give Miranda a different arc next season? Will we see Miranda return and have to pick up the pieces of her life she so casually and willfully discarded? That would mean MPK giving in and admitting the audience was "right", but at least maybe we'd get a believable story out of it. I for one don't care to see Miranda again as she was my least favorite of the foursome, but I know sending her packing is unlikely. Samantha went to L.A. and returned to NYC (with a paunch and a pooch!). Che may get relegated to "oh, she's on tour but we DM all the time" status though (I hope).

Edited February 5, 2022 by RedHawk

[funnygirl]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

The Independent article brought up a point I have thought the show has sadly been pushing.  That "living your truth" means you can do whatever makes you happy with no regrets of how it may hurt someone else.

On SATC when the women were doing something that needed called out they were called out. No matter how much your friends love you sometimes they need to tell you what an asshole you are being. Miranda was being an asshole for much of this reboot.  And I think this applies to Cynthia Nixon too.  Was there not someone who could have told her Miranda and Che don't make sense and while your notes are appreciated we are sticking with the storyline we have already written?

The thing about living your truth is that there is a very fine line between that and reality, and often times that line can get blurred if you’re not tapped into reality. 

For instance, My Truth: I’m a millionaire. THE Truth (my bank account): No I’m not. 

These little catchphrases society, and in particular - social media, has come up with to be “cute” have the tendency to get twisted. Living authentically and being yourself, being honest, and doing your best in the world is what living your truth is supposed to be generalizing. But it’s been turned into an excuse for selfish and ego-driven behavior.

Case in point, Miranda. 

[bluegirl147]

The narrative from MPK and people who enjoyed Miranda's story is viewers want Miranda punished for leaving Steve and being with a non binary character. Which is simply not true.  We don't want her punished.  We want her to see some consequences for being selfish and uncaring towards her husband.  And her friends as well.  Not to mention the organization who offered her the internship.  Although they should thank their lucky stars because if she had taken it I have no doubt she would have been distracted checking her phone constantly for a message from Che.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I do want to see Miranda punished (meaning face consequences) but it has nothing to do with Che and Che being non-binary.  I think MPK would do well to explore therapy.  He's absolutely mad and drunk with power.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[slowpoked]

28 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

The thing about living your truth is that there is a very fine line between that and reality, and often times that line can get blurred if you’re not tapped into reality. 

For instance, My Truth: I’m a millionaire. THE Truth (my bank account): No I’m not. 

These little catchphrases society, and in particular - social media, has come up with to be “cute” have the tendency to get twisted. Living authentically and being yourself, being honest, and doing your best in the world is what living your truth is supposed to be generalizing. But it’s been turned into an excuse for selfish and ego-driven behavior.

Case in point, Miranda. 

Gosh, include “living my best life” in those cutesy little catchphrases that I just want to bitch slap out of everyday language use.

[Evie]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

The narrative from MPK and people who enjoyed Miranda's story is viewers want Miranda punished for leaving Steve and being with a non binary character. Which is simply not true.  We don't want her punished.  We want her to see some consequences for being selfish and uncaring towards her husband.  And her friends as well.  Not to mention the organization who offered her the internship.  Although they should thank their lucky stars because if she had taken it I have no doubt she would have been distracted checking her phone constantly for a message from Che.

Exactly. Consequences would be Miranda receiving the cold shoulder from Brady and Steve. Steve and Miranda can amicably coparent eventually, but first, Steve should be allowed to be hurt and angry that Miranda cheated on him and then ran off to live her rom-com without a thought to Steve or Brady's feelings. It's not even clear if Steve knows Miranda cheated on him. From his conversation with Carrie, it doesn't seem Miranda told him much. Brady should have some feelings about his parent's divorce. Carrie and Charlotte should be able to express how they really feel about Miranda's actions. It sometimes feel like they are holding their tongues, and they never did in the past. 

I don't know how the Che thing will end, but if they are being at all realistic, it should crash and burn. Miranda is in lust, not love. They have nothing in common. Miranda's choices should impact any future internship prospects. 

[Rebecca berkowit]

Have we seen one media take on this show which examines what happens when an actor is given too much input into the narrative arc of the show such that the original vision is subverted?  There’s really no need for any other criticism.  (I mean, sure, you can discuss how unhappy you are with elements of plot and characterization, or the audience reaction, but that’s not addressing the real issue.)   You can see in the first episode, which not coincidentally takes place before Miranda and Che meet, what the show was supposed to be.  Sometimes one poor decision can necessitate more and more of them.  Did the critics not watch the documentary which explains what happened with regard to the Miranda/Che thing?  It’s not a secret.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[bluegirl147]

19 hours ago, Evie said:

Carrie and Charlotte should be able to express how they really feel about Miranda's actions. It sometimes feel like they are holding their tongues, and they never did in the past. 

 Miranda's choices should impact any future internship prospects. 

I wonder if SJP and KD had any misgivings about the storyline change. I think Cynthia Nixon has confused herself with Miranda to the point that she didn't want to hear anything negative about the story she wanted to play.

I do agree that there is slim chance of Miranda ever being offered an internship again. They are highly sought after and I doubt Nya would ever submit Miranda for consideration again.  The choices you make have consequences.  

What was never made clear was did Che know Miranda had an internship offered to her? Because if they knew and didn't try to talk Miranda out of coming to LA with her then they are ust as selfish as Miranda. And if they didn't know then Miranda is keeping secrets from Che.   This is a couple that has no chance of working. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by bluegirl147

[JeanJean]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:32 AM, Hana Chan said:

 

To be blunt, AJLT was an insult to our intelligence. There were a few honest, really good moments in the show but the majority of it was just garbage. Trying to play it that we just didn't want the show to change or that things might not turn out for the characters the way we wanted it's the point. We expected things to change. We just hoped that it would be done in a way that made sense and honored the original show. 

As SailorGirl said, first they blamed audience reaction on viewers being anti-non-binary folks, which wasn't true. Then they said the audience is anti female-led casts. Not true. Maybe next up will be viewers are anti-SATC and that's why they tuned in after watching the original a zillion times. Then maybe it will just be the viewers are Luddites who are anti-TV.

It's okay to make a mistake with show/story direction. It's petty and arrogant to blame the viewers.

They might also look at it as, hey, viewers are pissed that Miranda was so constantly thoughtless toward Steve and Brady (and Carrie, what with riding her about Heaven) and that's a good thing, because it means the audience is investing and reacting. You can make your character unsympathetic if you want. But don't rag on the audience for seeing that and not caring for them anymore. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by JeanJean

[slowpoked]

20 hours ago, violet and green said:

SJP wouldn't be happy with KC returning?! Hahahaha.

Worth watching this interview, from 2017, when KC makes her position re returning abundantly clear.

 

In this interview, Samantha also said maybe it’s time they have an African-American Samantha, or a Hispanic Samantha. 
 
At least it looks like MPK and SJP took her advice, unintentionally of course, of getting a minority Samantha replacement in Seema.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, JeanJean said:

 

They might also look at it as, hey, viewers are pissed that Miranda was so constantly thoughtless toward Steve and Brady (and Carrie, what with riding her about Heaven) and that's a good thing, because it means the audience is investing and reacting. You can make your character unsympathetic if you want. But don't rag on the audience for seeing that and not caring for them anymore. 

If only they had realized Miranda has become unsympathetic. They wrote Steve like he was a doddering old man so we would  think well of course Miranda deserves better than him.  Instead we thought Steve deserves better than her. If any character had been allowed to call Miranda out that would have gone a long way to making this storyline palatable. But her blithely going through this whole thing giggling and thinking she was in rom com (seriously nothing about her and Che was romantic or comedic) made her just insufferable to watch.  

[PepSinger]

14 hours ago, violet and green said:

Re the problem with Miranda. Very succinct:

'And Just Like That' Ruined Miranda - The Atlantic

eta: weird link fail, worth googling title and reading...

 

https://apple.news/A8z6JmAp1T8qOOUfFX3jRdw

or

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/02/and-just-like-finale-miranda-che/621487/

my mom sent me his article, and I meant to share it as well.

Edited February 5, 2022 by PepSinger

[Rebecca berkowit]

8 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

https://apple.news/A8z6JmAp1T8qOOUfFX3jRdw

or

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/02/and-just-like-finale-miranda-che/621487/

my mom sent me his article, and I meant to share it as well.

The Atlantic article is great, I like how it discusses that Che was not supposed to be Miranda’s love interest.  What is this BS about how two straight characters falling for each other isn’t interesting?  That seems like it would be interesting!  Double the internal conflict!  Instead, we get the well-worn trope of the non-straight character seducing the straight one, and that’s hot? 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[millennium]

It's probably a good thing Samantha was absent from the events of AJLT.   I don't think I would have been able to stomach Samantha at the Che Diaz comedy concert.  I'm sure the writers would have written Samantha as all in on Che (as Charlotte was).  But the Samantha of SATC would have been the only one in the group to say "is this what passes for comedy these days?" and to point out how absurdly Miranda's been acting (and Charlotte to, to a lesser degree).   The group dynamic desperately needs a centrist personality who can act as a foil to the unchallenged wokeism.

 

[T Summer]

4 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

The Atlantic article is great, I like how it discusses that Che was not supposed to be Miranda’s love interest.  What is this BS about how two straight characters falling for each other isn’t interesting?  That seems like it would be interesting!  Double the internal conflict!  Instead, we get the well-worn trope of the non-straight character seducing the straight one, and that’s hot? 

If you watch the documentary you can hear that (and more) straight from Cynthia Nixon's mouth at the 30:00 mark.

"Nya was a straight character  and Miranda's a  straight character character... ...and I was like, that doesn't sound very sexy at all. Do you know what I mean?   To women who have gotten to this age and are now just sort of fumbling around. That doesn't seem great.  ..and I was like, why couldn't it be, you know, why  couldn't it be this butch person that you're talking about having for Carrie"

 

CN also pushed to get Sara Ramirez on the show.

 

[millennium]

It's funny that the showrunners and SJP seem to be reacting defensively to the absence of Kim Cattrall.   I imagine they are tired of reading all the complaints.   They appear to have talked themselves into believing this version would be just as good as the original recipe, maybe even better now that there's no more fighting between the leads.

And just like that, SJP is Eddie Van Halen. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by millennium

[ruby24]

Good lord. She thinks Miranda and Che together are sexy? Ummm....no. 

They are such a fucking mismatch it is SO cringe. I mean really bad. Miranda looked like an old lady at that club and I have no idea what the fuck somebody like Che would see in this old, embarrassing, frumpy, doddering lady. They think Steve seems old? Jesus.

They have ZERO chemistry.

[lamadeleine]

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

 What was never made clear was did Che know Miranda had an internship offered to her? Because if she knew and didn't try to talk Miranda out of coming to LA with her then she is just as selfish as Miranda. And if she didn't know then Miranda is keeping secrets from Che.   This is a couple that has no chance of working. 

Well, I think this was just one of the problems with the storytelling and character development. We actually got to see very little of how these two work as a couple- what do they talk about when they're just hanging out? Do they talk? Do they just have sex? Do they share their dreams, goals, etc? Have they shared anything meaningful at all with each other about their lives? How is it that they've both professed their love for each other, but we the audience struggle to understand how that possibly could have happened?....The show is making the audience work way too hard to fill in the blanks here.

[CeeBeeGee]

5 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

The Atlantic article is great, I like how it discusses that Che was not supposed to be Miranda’s love interest.  What is this BS about how two straight characters falling for each other isn’t interesting?  That seems like it would be interesting!  

It would've been great. I am a Shakespearean and a humanist and I firmly believe that people fall in love with people--not with gender. Look at Viola (a role I've played) and Orsino in Twelfth Night--even when he finds out that the person he thinks is a boy is really a girl, they still are in love. Because he fell in love with that person and the gender was immaterial. As an actor I've seen many straight people engage in same-sex relationships and then go back to being straight, and I think there would be more if there were less of a stigma to same-sex experimentation. (That said, I've never experimented that way myself but I'm sure I could fall in love with a woman. Of course love and sex are two different things.) Nya and Miranda realizing they have a connection and trying to figure out how to act on that would've been wonderful, surprising, complicated and adult storytelling. Instead what we got was a non-binary person with fuckboi energy who does "a ton of weed" inexplicably "falling in love" with their abuela the friend of their employee. It's sloppy, dreadful, implausible storytelling.

 

42 minutes ago, millennium said:

It's funny that the showrunners and SJP seem to be reacting defensively to the absence of Kim Cattrall.   I imagine they are tired of reading all the complaints.   They appear to have talked themselves into believing this version would be just as good as the original recipe, maybe even better now that there's no more fighting between the leads.

Isn't it mostly MPK and CN who are reacting defensively? What has SJP said?

MPK's frantic spinning is unattractive. Look, I get it--as a creative person it's hard to hear criticism of what you put out there. I'm an actor (mostly retired at this point)--I dreaded getting bad reviews. I'm currently writing a novel and the thought of people criticizing my baby is hard. But that's what you signed up for. Someone making millions of dollars for their creative output throwing a temper tantrum when their audience tells them frankly what they think was tiresome when Aaron Sorkin did it and it's tiresome now.

[millennium]

33 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Isn't it mostly MPK and CN who are reacting defensively? What has SJP said?

 

Sarah Jessica Parker: I don’t think I’d be OK with Kim Cattrall on ‘AJLT’