S03.E02: The President Kissed Me

[DanaK]

Quote

402 9/14/2021 10 p.m. ET/PT

Monica reveals to Linda that she is having an affair with the most powerful man in the world.

 

[Spartan Girl]

Oy. Monica could’ve saved herself so much grief if she listened to Kat. She was right about everything. Yet instead she made the mistake of confiding in Linda, who egged her on and manipulated her at every turn.

I cannot believe she flashed her thong at Clinton. I mean…wow. 

I don’t know how to feel about Paula. She was definitely exploited by a lot of people, but at times she comes off like she was opportunistic too.

Cobie is KILLING it as that hag Ann.

[bmoore4026]

Oh, God, what to make of this episode.  The only thing that comes to mind is a song from the musical The Scarlet Pimpernel called "The Riddle".  It almost prescient how it fits into this whole scenario. 

 

[peridot]

Monica comes across as unhinged.  Traveling long distances and waiting hours for a glimpse, staying in her apartment all the time waiting for a call, flashing her thong where anyone could see!?  I wish she was smarter about being caught in Bill's web.  I'm surprised she wasn't even trying to be discreet.

Linda is such a terrible person, drawing out who Monica was seeing and convincing her not to give up on the affair.  When she was watching the inauguration, was she imagining being there?  Did she have a crush on Clinton?

I was shaking my head at Paula's video.  Did she actually say that it was being sold by her minister?  That made me doubt her intentions with the lawsuit. 

[Toonces464]

I thought this episode was much better than last week. 

I agree with @peridot that Monica seemed unhinged. For some reason, I always thought she was naïve. Clearly that was not the case. 

Linda Tripp is horrible but I predict Sarah will win another Emmy for the role. And always love to see Judith Light.

Maybe this will end up holding my interest after all.

[hoodooznoodooz]

What did Betty say? “Yes, he likes presents more than any other man I know.” Something like that? Ha!

[SHD]

I keep watching this and thinking “It’s odd that they made this about such a recent event” but then I realize it was over 20 years ago, there’s a whole generation of people who weren’t even born when it happened, and I’m just old. LOL

I’m surprised at the comments about how Monica seems unhinged. She was 22, lonely, and getting attention from a very powerful, charismatic man. I’d say her behavior speaks more to insecurity and self-esteem issues than being unhinged. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

The Gap shopping bag was funny.

[revbfc]

All things being equal, Monica was unhinged.

BUT!

All things were NOT equal.

Monica was in her early 20’s (who among us made good romantic decisions at that age?), and Bill was an adult who should have known better.  His impeachment was unwarranted, but Bill is still the one who fucked up.  Never forget that.

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, SHD said:

I’m surprised at the comments about how Monica seems unhinged. She was 22, lonely, and getting attention from a very powerful, charismatic man. I’d say her behavior speaks more to insecurity and self-esteem issues than being unhinged. 

Exactly! Fixating on/having an affair with a married man was wrong, but it takes two to tango. He was older, he was married, he should have known better. The second she blabbed about having a crush on him, he could have set her straight and maintained those boundaries but he didn’t.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, peridot said:

 

I was shaking my head at Paula's video.  Did she actually say that it was being sold by her minister?  That made me doubt her intentions with the lawsuit. 

Not Paula's church,  but Jerry Falwell's in Virginia.   

[hoodooznoodooz]

What’s the significance of showing Linda’s microwave dinners every night? Just that she had a sad, lonely life? 

I’m enjoying how much Linda’s cubicle mate drives her insane. 
 

[txhorns79]

32 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I’m enjoying how much Linda’s cubicle mate drives her insane. 

It does feel like that storyline could be it's own movie.   

4 hours ago, revbfc said:

Monica was in her early 20’s (who among us made good romantic decisions at that age?), and Bill was an adult who should have known better.  

Monica was also an adult.  She knew Clinton was married.  She knew he was President.  They both had poor judgment and should have known better. 

[BeatrixK]

5 hours ago, revbfc said:

All things being equal, Monica was unhinged.

BUT!

All things were NOT equal.

Monica was in her early 20’s (who among us made good romantic decisions at that age?), and Bill was an adult who should have known better.  His impeachment was unwarranted, but Bill is still the one who fucked up.  Never forget that.

THIS!

 

Having been a single woman in my early 20's with some self-esteem issues....they aren't exactly a group that is known for making solid romantic decisions -- hell...I lost my head over dudes who worked a part time job and lived with 3 roommates and didn't own a car:  Imagine the most powerful man in the world flirting with you and paying you attention - that is gonna make you fall like a ton of bricks!

Owen as Clinton -- I see some good stuff (He does seem to capture that 'magnetism' that Clinton had -- and he's got his vocal cadence down pretty well.  His accent is off....but Clinton's drawl is more subtle and with Owen not being a natural American-dialect speaker...I give him credit for getting it closer than I assumed he would.)  But the prosthetics are REALLY distracting!

Judith Light:  I utterly adore you and THANK YOU Ryan Murphy for bringing her to my screen again!

Edited September 15, 2021 by BeatrixK

[TattleTeeny]

If she was “unhinged,” I would blame that on being 22, not on her default-setting emotional state. If anyone is a bit unhinged, it’s Bill. Not that 2 people in 1 scenario can’t be “unhinged” (and not that I know either personally), but I have been a 22-year-old woman (though I’d call me a “girl” then) who made questionable romantic decisions that I wouldn’t make now—and that’s not because I was unhinged then! I can’t subscribe to the “she should have known better” idea; shit like this (though typically on a far less explosive scale) is how young women learn to “know better.” (And I am willing to bet that she herself today, a seemingly “hinged” woman [with a good sense of humor about this whole mess], believes she should have known better.)

Edited September 15, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, SHD said:

I’m surprised at the comments about how Monica seems unhinged. She was 22, lonely, and getting attention from a very powerful, charismatic man. I’d say her behavior speaks more to insecurity and self-esteem issues than being unhinged. 

Also the behaviors described don’t seem unhinged to me; they seem like things people do when they’re in love, which I have heard Monica say she was (she says she “fell in love with [her] boss” in her TED Talk). Flashing the thong was really tacky (I read an interview where she says she wanted that in the show to not let herself off the hook) but waiting up for a call and inconveniencing herself to see him are things I’ve done in real, not clandestine relationships and she clearly considers this a relationship. People do a lot for love. I had a friend who tried to immigrate for a woman he loved when she had to go back to her home country (and could not so they broke up, and he was crushed).

The older I get, the more I learn/see that relationships are complex. There’s a lot of gray. (Also that infidelity, or the desire for infidelity, is much more common than I thought. All you have to do is go on a dating app to see that.)

Where I do think she should have known better in the moment is confiding in Linda, but I suppose I can chalk that up to loneliness. I never talk about my personal business at work.

7 hours ago, Glade said:

But he was the most powerful person in the world at the time, so I think he could definitely wow an intern in her early 20's. 

My mother has said that she finds Clinton attractive. I didn’t really get it; I was a teen when all this happened and I focused more on the power differential between them. Then he made that speech at the first Obama DNC and I was like “ok, I get it” because he was so confident and charming sauntering around the stage, and apparently most of that speech was off teleprompter. I love smart, eloquent men so I can absolutely believe women were and remain charmed by him. Power is a turn-on to many.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Re: Monica—she and I are contemporaries. I remember at the time being astonished by her behavior, the thong thing in particular. To me it was tacky and also so incredibly brazen. Who DOES that? It was the white house, not a coffee house or a frat house, or some internet bubble fun office. 

I get this. I think that it would be easy to compare/judge as a contemporary because you can at least somewhat imagine yourself at that age in the situation. With hindsight comes clarity, maybe; while I don't think I would have done the same things she did, I can now see that I had my own versions of very similar behavior (in non-White House settings, with non-presidents!) that I would not repeat now, no matter where I am! Also, it's all too easy to think, "if I wouldn't do this, no one 'normal' would."

Edited September 15, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[txhorns79]

Quote

Sure, I never would have acted that way at 22, but I also didn't have the chutzpah to get myself a White House internship, so she's just a different kind of person.

My understanding is she used a family connection to get her internship.

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

With hindsight comes clarity, maybe; while I don't think I would have done the same things she did, I can now see that I had my own versions of very similar behavior (in non-White House settings, with non-presidents!) that I would not repeat now, no matter where I am!

I had a relationship in my mid-to-late 20s (like, starting in my mid-20s and ending in my late 20s) that I thought was all deep and shit, but really he was just a fuckboy. That’s it. (And he was 10 years older so you’d think he’d be more mature.) I remember describing it to a friend I hadn’t talked to in a while and I was like, “he’s a writer, he’s got a lot going on emotionally.” Cringe! He was a fuckboy. I did way more in service of that relationship than it or he deserved, and I cringed over it for a while. I think most people with any relationship history have stories like that.

As someone else said, I would bet that Monica right now, today, thinks she should have known better than she did back then. 

[LADreamr]

Also, it wasn't just his position and power.  He has a magnetism that I've even heard a number of straight men who have met him say that they felt it too, and completely understand the effect he has on some women.

I remember all of this happening at the time.  I worked at a law firm in LA then, and Monica's first lawyer came in to our firm to work with one of our partners.  His energy was so slimy I couldn't be anywhere near him.  Made me feel even worse for her, that she seemed to be let down by everyone around her.

After this episode last night, I went down a rabbit hole of videos of news coverage, watching the breaking news of their involvement, and then her interviews, and her HBO special (which was only a few years later).  She was not unhinged.  She was poised, articulate, and intelligent. She had been through a lot as a teenager, and hadn't healed from any of that yet, especially in regards to her self-esteem, and then she gets validation from Clinton, and everything that came with that.  Of course it was addictive and intoxicating.

[TheGreenKnight]

I’m sort of annoyed at how the show seems to be portraying both Lewinsky and Jones as merely manipulated into everything--the former by Tripp and Clinton, the latter by her husband and Judith Light's character (I forget the name). No doubt they were manipulated by several different individuals in the story (to varying degrees by the different people involved), but they still ultimately had their own agency... In the attempt to make them sympathetic, the show is resorting to infantilizing them. I don't think that's an empowering portrayal, much less a truthful one.

[Toonces464]

12 hours ago, SHD said:

’m surprised at the comments about how Monica seems unhinged. She was 22, lonely, and getting attention from a very powerful, charismatic man. I’d say her behavior speaks more to insecurity and self-esteem issues than being unhinged. 

 

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Exactly! Fixating on/having an affair with a married man was wrong, but it takes two to tango. He was older, he was married, he should have known better. The second she blabbed about having a crush on him, he could have set her straight and maintained those boundaries but he didn’t.

My comment about her seeming unhinged isn't related so much as to her obsession with Clinton (because I do think it was an obsession) but more for things like showing her thong in in a crowd like that. People who are lonely and insecure don't usually tend to be that bold, especially in public.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

People who are lonely and insecure don't usually tend to be that bold, especially in public.

Tons of people do wildly exhibitionistic things because of being lonely and/or insecure (ugh, I know of few of them and they can be exhausting). They may view the behavior as a means to cease being lonely and/or insecure, especially if they have already experienced validation (however dubious it may be). I tend to believe that people who are not insecure are more likely to be the ones not deliberately showing thong in the workplace (although, of course, it depends what kind of workplace).

Edited September 15, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[LADreamr]

6 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Tons of people do wildly exhibitionistic things because of being lonely and/or insecure (ugh, I know of few of them and they can be exhausting). They may view the behavior as a means to cease being lonely and/or insecure, especially if they have already experienced validation (however dubious it may be). 

Exactly.  It's like presenting a happy, positive front in reaction to actually being very depressed.

[qtpye]

13 hours ago, SHD said:

I keep watching this and thinking “It’s odd that they made this about such a recent event” but then I realize it was over 20 years ago, there’s a whole generation of people who weren’t even born when it happened, and I’m just old. LOL

I’m surprised at the comments about how Monica seems unhinged. She was 22, lonely, and getting attention from a very powerful, charismatic man. I’d say her behavior speaks more to insecurity and self-esteem issues than being unhinged. 

 

10 hours ago, revbfc said:

All things being equal, Monica was unhinged.

BUT!

All things were NOT equal.

Monica was in her early 20’s (who among us made good romantic decisions at that age?), and Bill was an adult who should have known better.  His impeachment was unwarranted, but Bill is still the one who fucked up.  Never forget that.

 

5 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

THIS!

 

Having been a single woman in my early 20's with some self-esteem issues....they aren't exactly a group that is known for making solid romantic decisions -- hell...I lost my head over dudes who worked a part time job and lived with 3 roommates and didn't own a car:  Imagine the most powerful man in the world flirting with you and paying you attention - that is gonna make you fall like a ton of bricks!

Owen as Clinton -- I see some good stuff (He does seem to capture that 'magnetism' that Clinton had -- and he's got his vocal cadence down pretty well.  His accent is off....but Clinton's drawl is more subtle and with Owen not being a natural American-dialect speaker...I give him credit for getting it closer than I assumed he would.)  But the prosthetics are REALLY distracting!

Judith Light:  I utterly adore you and THANK YOU Ryan Murphy for bringing her to my screen again!

 

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also the behaviors described don’t seem unhinged to me; they seem like things people do when they’re in love, which I have heard Monica say she was (she says she “fell in love with [her] boss” in her TED Talk). Flashing the thong was really tacky (I read an interview where she says she wanted that in the show to not let herself off the hook) but waiting up for a call and inconveniencing herself to see him are things I’ve done in real, not clandestine relationships and she clearly considers this a relationship. People do a lot for love. I had a friend who tried to immigrate for a woman he loved when she had to go back to her home country (and could not so they broke up, and he was crushed).

The older I get, the more I learn/see that relationships are complex. There’s a lot of gray. (Also that infidelity, or the desire for infidelity, is much more common than I thought. All you have to do is go on a dating app to see that.)

Where I do think she should have known better in the moment is confiding in Linda, but I suppose I can chalk that up to loneliness. I never talk about my personal business at work.

My mother has said that she finds Clinton attractive. I didn’t really get it; I was a teen when all this happened and I focused more on the power differential between them. Then he made that speech at the first Obama DNC and I was like “ok, I get it” because he was so confident and charming sauntering around the stage, and apparently most of that speech was off teleprompter. I love smart, eloquent men so I can absolutely believe women were and remain charmed by him. Power is a turn-on to many.

 

2 hours ago, LADreamr said:

Also, it wasn't just his position and power.  He has a magnetism that I've even heard a number of straight men who have met him say that they felt it too, and completely understand the effect he has on some women.

I remember all of this happening at the time.  I worked at a law firm in LA then, and Monica's first lawyer came in to our firm to work with one of our partners.  His energy was so slimy I couldn't be anywhere near him.  Made me feel even worse for her, that she seemed to be let down by everyone around her.

After this episode last night, I went down a rabbit hole of videos of news coverage, watching the breaking news of their involvement, and then her interviews, and her HBO special (which was only a few years later).  She was not unhinged.  She was poised, articulate, and intelligent. She had been through a lot as a teenager, and hadn't healed from any of that yet, especially in regards to her self-esteem, and then she gets validation from Clinton, and everything that came with that.  Of course it was addictive and intoxicating.

I love Judith Light!

Bill Clinton is like JFK. A lot of people in the older generations have told me that women would swoon over JFK and I’ve never understood it. To me, he has always looked like a short toothy troll.

I have heard that Bill Clinton had a magnetic charisma that was very hard to resist. It was the opposite of Hillary who I have been told by a friend ( this person is a die hard Democrat who has met them both several times) is extremely off putting when you first meet her.

Time and age has taken away some of his charm.

That being said…WORST CLINTON IMPRESSION EVER!

I am a Clive Owen fan but he is not capturing Clinton’s charm or physicality.

Clinton was not a thin spare man when he was president. He was chubby and often mocked for it. The line about never saying no to a cheeseburger did not make sense with Clive Owen.

I hate that they are going back to the trope that a woman without a man is miserable but it is the way a lot of people perceived Linda Tripp. I guess we are supposed to perceive the Weight Watcher’s meals and evenings in front of the tv pathetic but it is actually the way a lot of people spend their time after work- minus the WW meals.

The true victim in all of this might be Linda Tripp’s cubicle mate.

[chick binewski]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I’m sort of annoyed at how the show seems to be portraying both Lewinsky and Jones as merely manipulated into everything--the former by Tripp and Clinton, the latter by her husband and Judith Light's character (I forget the name). No doubt they were manipulated by several different individuals in the story (to varying degrees by the different people involved), but they still ultimately had their own agency... In the attempt to make them sympathetic, the show is resorting to infantilizing them. I don't think that's an empowering portrayal, much less a truthful one.

This. I do think Jones was a bit overwhelmed by the manipulative attention she was receiving, and of course in the end both she and Lewinsky were in over their heads. But Jones is appearing too gullible to live and this version of Monica just does not seem accurate.

I am in full agreement with what Jones' character said - this is something that Clinton did. But Monica was someone from an affluent family, had already been involved with two married men and was writing the wife of one of those men when she was in D.C. (assuring her that the husband wouldn't cheat). Yes, Monica was very young but she was also messy. The fact that she's a producer for a story that's basically casting a dead woman as the puppeteer of all that happened tells me she might still be messy. 

That being said, my lack of advanced degree keeps me from stating with authority whether Clinton is a psychopath or a sociopath. But this guy had relationships with Kevin Spacey and Jeffrey Epstein. I dont think he deserves any empathy or consideration here and I think Owen got his easy sleeze down in the first meeting with Monica.

(please excuse the Judge Judy-ness of this post; I'm having a bad pain day and that tends to throw my tone off)

[lovinbob]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

My understanding is she used a family connection to get her internship.

Sure. But my point was just that a person who would seek a job working in and around the White House might also tend toward bolder, more risk-taking actions than someone like me, who sought out a job working as a volunteer high school teacher. 🤣

18 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Bill Clinton is like JFK. A lot of people in the older generations have told me that women would swoon over JFK and I’ve never understood it. To me, he has always looked like a short toothy troll.

JFK was 6'1. Did you mean Bobby Kennedy? He was more known for his teeth, and I think he was 5'8 or 5'9. 

[SailorGirl]

Vulture's fact-check for episode 2. 

https://www.vulture.com/article/impeachment-fact-check-what-episode-two-gets-right.html

 

 

[TheGreenKnight]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I hate that they are going back to the trope that a woman without a man is miserable but it is the way a lot of people perceived Linda Tripp. I guess we are supposed to perceive the Weight Watcher’s meals and evenings in front of the tv pathetic but it is actually the way a lot of people spend their time after work- minus the WW meals.

I was going to say Linda Tripp is the only one this show is successfully making sympathetic to me. And not in the sense that I necessarily like her or that her actions are more commendable or anything, just that they're making her come across so pathetic it's like she had nothing at all, explaining the desperation to be important and to prove herself any way anyhow. I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate about the real woman or not for those that knew her personally, but it's definitely not what I'd call flattering.

[tvfanatic13]

I have met Clinton. I can tell you that this lesbian wanted to jump into bed with him! Oozing charisma. 
I am not seeing Beanie as Monica. She looks too childlike/immature. 
Love Colbie as Coulter. And all I see is Edie Falco- no Hillary whatsoever. Loving SP as Tripp. 

[Clawdel]

17 hours ago, peridot said:

Monica comes across as unhinged.  Traveling long distances and waiting hours for a glimpse, staying in her apartment all the time waiting for a call, flashing her thong where anyone could see!?  I wish she was smarter about being caught in Bill's web.  I'm surprised she wasn't even trying to be discreet.

Monica doesn't come off as unhinged to me. She comes across as a young woman with serious emotional problems and bipolar disorder, which I have been living with since I was 18.

I was the same age as Monica when this scandal erupted. Here's what she and I have in common: hypersexuality caused by the chemical imbalance, poor impulse control, erratic judgement, extreme risk-taking, obsessive behavior, low self-esteem, mood swings, and compulsive eating disorders such as restricting and binging, weight fluctuations, and terrible sleep hygiene. Early onset bipolar disorder happens in the late teens to early twenties. Manic depressives can be charming, effervescent, outgoing, and bright. They can also come from turbulent childhoods and dysfunctional families. Monica's inner child was really running a 23-year-old woman's life, when every decision you make can impact your career and relationships.

I remember when Monica did her 20/20 interview with Barbara Walters, she said she was in therapy and on anti-depressants. I hope a mood stabilizer was part of her treatment. I listened to all of the tapes when they came out in the 1990's and I could hear so much that sounded familiar when she was irritable, tearful, and downright angry.

When Clinton was "repenting" by seeking counsel from Billy Graham and going to church with him family, Bible in hand, Betty Ford said it right, he's a classic sex addict. Compulsive behavior can wreck a person's life and it also impacted Hilary's presidential campaigns!

People suffering from the ups and downs of bipolar disorder and stress can easily be victimized by predators like Linda Tripp, because the chaos in our heads and personal lives interfere with out ability to use good judgement, discretion, and intuition. When that scandal hit, Monica's mom was terrified that she would commit suicide.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Clawdel
clarity

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, lovinbob said:

Sure. But my point was just that a person who would seek a job working in and around the White House might also tend toward bolder, more risk-taking actions than someone like me, who sought out a job working as a volunteer high school teacher. 🤣

JFK was 6'1. Did you mean Bobby Kennedy? He was more known for his teeth, and I think he was 5'8 or 5'9. 

You might be right.

Was it Bobby the ladies liked?

I know both had bad reputations for using women.

[leocadia]

How is it possible that Judith Light has not aged in 30 years?  

[iMonrey]

This episode was at least more cohesive and easier to follow than the first one. 

The affair between Lewinsky and Clinton went on for far longer than I originally thought. At the time I thought it was just one BJ. Looks like they were carrying on for years if this show is to be believed. 

After Linda told Monica to stay in town because Clinton might call her and then he did call her and said he had laryngitis, did anyone else think Linda had actually paid someone to impersonate him?

Annaleigh Ashford is one of the few bright spots as Paula Jones. I'm assuming she's wearing a fake nose. 

Quote

I am not seeing Beanie as Monica. She looks too childlike/immature. 

She is also not as attractive and much heavier than Monica was. I'm sorry but it's true. It's hard to believe Lewinsky herself approved of Feldstein's casting. Weird choice. 

On the other hand I have no issue with Clive Owen as Clinton.

Quote

Monica was in her early 20’s (who among us made good romantic decisions at that age?), and Bill was an adult who should have known better.  His impeachment was unwarranted, but Bill is still the one who fucked up.

I see little value in weighing blame. They are both to blame. Any woman who sleeps with a married man, knowing he is married, is just as much of a cheater as the man is. I'm disinclined to assign proportions of responsibility in this case. Clearly Clinton was a predator but Monica knew exactly what she was going and was a willing participant. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by iMonrey

[Empress1]

19 minutes ago, leocadia said:

How is it possible that Judith Light has not aged in 30 years?  

I’ve seen her in person a good 15 years ago, and she looked the same then as now.

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The affair between Lewinsky and Clinton went on for far longer than I originally thought. At the time I thought it was just one BJ. Looks like they were carrying on for years if this show is to be believed. 

I think it was months? But I definitely didn’t think it was only one encounter. I actually thought it was more consistent contact than they appear to have had, which is silly on my part given the demands of the president - like, only the people who travel with him see him that often.

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Quote

 

She is also not as attractive and much heavier than Monica was. I'm sorry but it's true. It's hard to believe Lewinsky herself approved of Feldstein's casting. Weird choice. 

I don’t think Beanie is attractive and I do think Monica is attractive now - but wasn’t Monica called fat and ugly (I’m paraphrasing) at the time? I don’t fully recall (I was a kid) but I feel like Monica’s looks were dragged through the mud at the time?

When Monica’s friend was like “why are you telling people?!” I was like “girl, right?”

[toodywoody]

Judith Light looks great.

Linda was just a fabulous person wasn't she. My gosh was she really such a shrew? She was the original Karen before Karens were a thing.

I feel bad for Monica, she has always struck me as naive and was taken advantage of by Bill and Linda.

[TattleTeeny]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

After Linda told Monica to stay in town because Clinton might call her and then he did call her and said he had laryngitis, did anyone else think Linda had actually paid someone to impersonate him?

Yes! But I hoped we’d cut to a scene with Linda in the dark at home, crouched down and making a man voice into the phone! (Don’t ask why she’d be crouching; I have no idea why my brain pictured the scenario that way.)

Edited September 16, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[hoodooznoodooz]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

wasn’t Monica called fat and ugly (I’m paraphrasing) at the time? I don’t fully recall (I was a kid) but I feel like Monica’s looks were dragged through the mud at the time?

 

I think David Spade joked that Bill Clinton had a type: women who looked like they worked as hostesses at The Olive Garden.

[EtheltoTillie]

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:.

I don’t think Beanie is attractive and I do think Monica is attractive now - but wasn’t Monica called fat and ugly (I’m paraphrasing) at the time? I don’t fully recall (I was a kid) but I feel like Monica’s looks were dragged through the mud at the time?

When Monica’s friend was like “why are you telling people?!” I was like “girl, right?”

Monica was famously nicknamed The Portly Pepperpot by the New York Post, an epithet that was wielded daily by their merciless gossip machine. 

[jmcd44]

On 9/15/2021 at 9:10 AM, BeatrixK said:

Having been a single woman in my early 20's with some self-esteem issues....they aren't exactly a group that is known for making solid romantic decisions -- hell...I lost my head over dudes who worked a part time job and lived with 3 roommates and didn't own a car:  Imagine the most powerful man in the world flirting with you and paying you attention - that is gonna make you fall like a ton of bricks!

SAME (I didn't have Monica's money to travel, so at least the losers I was smitten with were usually found at the local bar). I too have always heard that Bill Clinton is so charismatic in person, you feel like you are alone with him. I'm from the DMV and was about 18-19 when this came out in the news but was very self-involved and away at college so the main thing I remember is that I was SHOCKED the POTUS would engage in such behavior as to cheat on his wife. Monica was only 3-4 years older at the time of the affair so I can see her being more naive than equal partner. 

 

19 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I am not seeing Beanie as Monica. She looks too childlike/immature. 

They are doing a disservice to Monica's GORGEOUS hair-I need some extensions on Beanie. I laughed at her going to "Pentagon City" to get her hair done. For sure, she went to Chevy Chase or Georgetown. 

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

The true victim in all of this might be Linda Tripp’s cubicle mate.

I assume this is not a real person but I would LOVE to hear an interview if she was real.

Linda will always remain a villain to me. I work in DC and I've known many many Lindas. I know they portray her as lonely and single, but I htink she was lonely because she was a jerk who worried a snapple bottle was on her side of the desk and not because she was single. I loved with she thought Michael Isikoff was digging up dirt on her program. Yeah right Linds. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I feel bad for Monica, she has always struck me as naive and was taken advantage of by Bill and Linda.

She was naive, for sure, and Clinton was definitely a predator. But Monica was 22. Not 16, not 18. A grown woman of 22 with a college degree. It's hard for me to alleviate her of any responsibility. She doesn't strike me as being woefully ignorant or sheltered. Yeah love makes you do dumb things but where did she think this was going? I feel bad for what she went through in the media but it's not like someone kidnapped her and forced her to do these things. She made some really bad choices and suffered the consequences. 

[Jillybean]

I didn't recall that Monica lived with her mother in DC. How strange that she came home and woke her mother to tell her "the president kissed me." At that age I withheld most of the sordid details of my life from my parents. The fact-checking link upthread says that Monica told 11 people what was going on. It's almost like she wanted it to become public.

[qtpye]

44 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I didn't recall that Monica lived with her mother in DC. How strange that she came home and woke her mother to tell her "the president kissed me." At that age I withheld most of the sordid details of my life from my parents. The fact-checking link upthread says that Monica told 11 people what was going on. It's almost like she wanted it to become public.

I think she did in some subconscious manner.

I think she had very low self esteem and was very flattered that a man as powerful and important as Bill Clinton wanted her in some way. 

I am impressed with the lady Monica has become but she is making some horrible mistakes here and hopefully she is wiser now.

The real Monica was attractive but she grew up in a rich area of LA. A city were the most beautiful women in the world flock to because of the movie industry.

Also, this was the time that the extreme heroin chic Kate Moss Skinniness was all the rage. Monica probably had grown up feeling bad about her body where today, she might have felt more confident and curvy.

Edited September 16, 2021 by qtpye

[MamaMax]

[cardigirl]

So far, this show is not doing any of the women involved any favors, as far as I'm concerned. I can't believe Monica thinks this is "telling the story" from the women's point of view, it's more from some misogynistic point of view. Maybe it gets better as the story goes along, but so far all it is showing is women as either silly, disingenuous, bitter, or harpies. Hmmm.  Not impressed. 

 

[LADreamr]

25 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Monica has always been beautiful.  I always hated the way she was treated.

[Milburn Stone]

27 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

So far, this show is not doing any of the women involved any favors, as far as I'm concerned. I can't believe Monica thinks this is "telling the story" from the women's point of view, it's more from some misogynistic point of view. Maybe it gets better as the story goes along, but so far all it is showing is women as either silly, disingenuous, bitter, or harpies. Hmmm.  Not impressed. 

I think we're seeing the same thing, but receiving it differently. This episode made me realize what the show wants to be. The show wants to be...a comedy! And for me it's succeeding. I think it's hilarious.

Judith Light, Annaleigh Ashford, Sarah Paulson, and Cobie Smulders are all fantastic comic actresses who are just eating this up. (Beanie is fine, but I don't see her performance here as comedic. She's the "straight man" for the rest of them.) 

Oh, and Taran Killam--also killing it in his few screen moments.

[cardigirl]

15 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I think we're seeing the same thing, but receiving it differently. This episode made me realize what the show wants to be. The show wants to be...a comedy! And for me it's succeeding. I think it's hilarious.

Judith Light, Annaleigh Ashford, Sarah Paulson, and Cobie Smulders are all fantastic comic actresses who are just eating this up. (Beanie is fine, but I don't see her performance here as comedic. She's the "straight man" for the rest of them.) 

Oh, and Taran Killam--also killing it in his few screen moments.

You might be right.  It certainly is camp. 

[qtpye]

A fascinating take on post feminism that mentions ACS Impeachment.

 

20 hours ago, cardigirl said:

You might be right.  It certainly is camp. 

 

20 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I think we're seeing the same thing, but receiving it differently. This episode made me realize what the show wants to be. The show wants to be...a comedy! And for me it's succeeding. I think it's hilarious.

Judith Light, Annaleigh Ashford, Sarah Paulson, and Cobie Smulders are all fantastic comic actresses who are just eating this up. (Beanie is fine, but I don't see her performance here as comedic. She's the "straight man" for the rest of them.) 

Oh, and Taran Killam--also killing it in his few screen moments.

The OJ ACS did an amazing job of handling the gravitas of the moment (2 murders) with elements of humor.

I remember Tyler Perry saying, "Damn, she looks like Rick James." in reaction to Marica Clark's new hairstyle.

However, it also never backed down from the sexism Marcia faced when compared to her male counterparts.

23 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I didn't recall that Monica lived with her mother in DC. How strange that she came home and woke her mother to tell her "the president kissed me." At that age I withheld most of the sordid details of my life from my parents. The fact-checking link upthread says that Monica told 11 people what was going on. It's almost like she wanted it to become public.

I think that scene was supposed to show how Monica and the privileged society that she was part of viewed her as a loser because she did not meet their waspish expectations of looks or success.

I interpreted that scene as showing her mother's reaction being "Sure, Monica, with all the beautiful women in the world....the President is interested in YOU".

[kj4ever]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:25 AM, GussieK said:

Monica was famously nicknamed The Portly Pepperpot by the New York Post, an epithet that was wielded daily by their merciless gossip machine. 

I'm sorry but they should have cast a different actress for Monica.  The actress playing her is so much bigger than Monica was it's like they've made a cartoon out of her.

I am a few years behind Monica, and I remember how they used to call her names like that.  She didn't deserve it, and she doesn't deserve having an actress that size play her.  It's like they are making fun of her all over again.  I'm not digging on the actress playing her - she just isn't right for the part.

The way Monica acted - not wanting to leave in case he called and all that - I had plenty of friends who acted like that and it wasn't for the POTUS.