LuLaRich - General Discussion

[greekmom]

Quote

The billion dollar clothing empire LuLaRoe stand accused of misleading thousands of women with their multi-level marketing platform.

Streaming on Amazon Prime

[nonnybaby]

Just binge-watched this and now I feel all kinds of yucky. Deanna and Mark are vile people and I loved what LaShae said about them at the end - they should remember that they started out selling from the back of their trunk and if they did that, they would remember to show more respect for the people who got them where they are today. I also loved when LaShae explained her refusal to go on the cruises. She was the best!

I loved all of the women who quit the business and had the courage to participate in this documentary. I can't help but think that if LuLaRoe was a legitimate business, they would coach their salespeople on financial literacy instead of all the mumbo jumbo cult-like motivation spiels. But if they did, it would lift the veil on their scam of a business.

The two sons who were deposed were horrible people. All of their "I don't remembers/I can't recalls" during the questioning. It seemed like the whole family perjured themselves in the depositions. The VP of sales son looked coked up in the deposition and his talking heads. That is not a well man.  

[greekmom]

Where to start with this one?

I did binge all the episodes yesterday. I needed time to digest.

People I did feel sorry for was the couple, the one mom who got the balloon in her stomach, the email dude and the African American lady who all got out.  I didn't feel sorry for the nephew who got out and then tried to scam the mom who got out with the marijuana grow op, number 3 mom who wouldn't discuss the amount of money she received by the company, the one seller who is still very loyal to the company, the designer of patterns and of course the family themselves.

Poster above said it well. LaShae spelled it out. They should remember where they came from.  I feel that hell has a special place for the Stidham family and their children who are involved in the shady business.  Also, I cannot believe that the law won't allow them to shut down the company entirely or any of these MLM's.

BTW, those clothes are the UGLIST shit I have ever seen. I wouldn't pay a dime for that crap.

[estellasmum]

I love all things related to exposing MLMs. This was wonderful. Having grown up in a cult, I totally applauded the one that made the connection that she realized she was in a cult, because she WAS. I find the amount of people involved in fundie religions that participate in MLMs fascinating, and wonder why people don't make the connection more. I have a pair of (admittedly rather loudly patterned) leggings that everyone assumes are LLR, and I always get offended and tell people I would never buy from there. LLR was huge around here in approximately 2016, and seems to have disappeared. I'm glad I know why now. I loved the comparison of DeAnna and Mark from the interviews being all confident and bubbly being juxtaposed with the footage of their deposition where they were much more subdued, "forgot" everything, and seemed like two totally different people. 

[nosedive]

DeAnne reminds me of Tammy Faye Baker, both in looks and demeanor.  Sisters in snake oil.  

[Adiba]

46 minutes ago, nosedive said:

DeAnne reminds me of Tammy Faye Baker, both in looks and demeanor.  Sisters in snake oil.  

I think in a few years DeAnne will start to resemble Bette Davis in What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? She’s rather heavy-handed with the makeup.

[chocolatine]

I'd never head of LuLaRoe until a couple of weeks ago when I saw an episode of House Hunters International where the wife insisted that she needed an entire bedroom dedicated to her "boutique home business," and the clothes she was selling were garish and hideous. The comments on the HHI thread mentioned that she must be working for LuLaRoe, so when I saw this documentary pop up on Amazon Prime I decided to check it out. It was like a train wreck, really terrible to watch but I couldn't look away. I can't decide whom I disdain more, the scammers who run pyramid schemes or the idiots who buy into the "easy money" lure. I know the latter are being portrayed as the victims, but any halfway intelligent person knows the there's no such thing as "easy money" and can spot a pyramid scheme from a mile away. They've been around for a very long time, and LuLaRoe is not the first and certainly won't be the last.

I did giggle like a 12-year-old at all the pictures of design "fails" in the crotch area of the leggings.

[Melina22]

11 hours ago, nosedive said:

DeAnne reminds me of Tammy Faye Baker, both in looks and demeanor.  Sisters in snake oil.  

Actually, the couple reminded me so much of Jim and Tammy Faye. They gave off such a similar vibe. 

Right off the bat I had major questions about DeAnne's story. The way she tells it she was a single (or still married?) mother with SEVEN children who was not only raising them, and looking fancy at all times, but also booking 15 parties a week. I'm sorry but that's literally impossible. Did she have nannies and housekeepers? I don't care how hard someone works, they can't properly care for seven, then fourteen children, plus work fulltime plus look fabulous and be a doting wife... without an army of help which she forgets to mention. 

Oh, and then she says she was a single mother so poor that she and her 7 children had to share one hamburger and fries. Then she says "So I was on a flight..." then adds that she went standby because of course, she was poor. I'm sorry but I've been a poor single mother. I was never so poor that my children and I all had to share one hamburger, but I sure as heck wasn't flying anywhere. 

Right then, I realized she was going to be a very unreliable narrator. 

[ffwbe]

Just finished this series. I found it entertaining. I heard of the company before this but never knew about the religious history and the whole part with the impact on marriages and keeping the man in “power” for lack of a better term. It was interesting when they claimed to be promoting female empowerment. 
 

I do wish that we saw something from the ones who didn’t make any money. That was one caveat. All of the people being interviewed appeared to be higher up in the pyramid and made a lot of money from it. Truthfully, only one actually seemed to feel guilty about being involved in an MLM. The woman in the plaid shirt who later helped others get out. She was also the only one who brought up how others were being taken advantage of.

 
I might be wrong but I got the impression that the rest who left got out because the bonus structure changed and they were making less money, they feared legal recourse once the lawsuits started coming in, or concerns about the quality of the product. I don’t know I just didn’t get the feeling that any of them cared that they were getting rich off the backs of others who were going into massive debt. 

[zenithwit]

This docuseries really hit home for me.  While I personally wasn't LuLaRoe's target audience (like @greekmom I thought LuLaRue leggings and clothes were hideous), many of my high school peers were.  I think at least 10 of my high school classmates became retailers at one point or another.  It felt like every time I logged onto Facebook, I was being invited to a new LuLaRue group.  Not surprisingly, all of them were women and I think most of them were stay at home moms too.

1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

I do wish that we saw something from the ones who didn’t make any money. That was one caveat. All of the people being interviewed appeared to be higher up in the pyramid and made a lot of money from it. Truthfully, only one actually seemed to feel guilty about being involved in an MLM. The woman in the plaid shirt who later helped others get out. She was also the only one who brought up how others were being taken advantage of.

100% this.  We really did not get any representation from the "80% who did not make any money" (stat from the MLM expert).  While the women they interviewed gave good information about the culture and inner-workings of the company, they all seemed to be amongst the earlier retailers and were making some sort of profit.  At times it was difficult to empathize knowing that they were churning a profit when so many weren't.  I guess they were being pressured to buy more inventory with that profit but that still feels like a business decision within their control.

I'm kinda curious about the future of LuLaRue (i.e. will it go out of business or become a more stable MLM like Mary Kay).  The amount of growth they experienced within a couple of years was off the charts and they clearly burned a lot of bridges in the process.  Unless they pivot to a slightly younger or older demographic, I just don't see how they can maintain a customer base within my peer group.

[AZChristian]

Wow.  Everything in that expose echoes what many were saying in the Meri Brown thread on Sister Wives . . . poor quality, ugly, taking advantage of women.

[mmecorday]

Quote

Oh, and then she says she was a single mother so poor that she and her 7 children had to share one hamburger and fries. Then she says "So I was on a flight..." then adds that she went standby because of course, she was poor. I'm sorry but I've been a poor single mother. I was never so poor that my children and I all had to share one hamburger, but I sure as heck wasn't flying anywhere. 

Right then, I realized she was going to be a very unreliable narrator.

Yep, right off the bat I realized we weren't dealing with someone remotely acquainted with the truth. I just watched the first couple episodes and I already know that she and her husband are complete phonies.

I was never tempted to buy anything from LulaRoe. Some of the prints would be too loud and garish for Mrs. Roper from "Three's Company."

[Kiss my mutt]

That lady who said she was so poor that she ate crackers for dinner doesn’t look like she just ate crackers for dinner, plus she came off as a real materialistic bitch thinking she was a hot shit business lady looking down her nose at others. 
 

 

[Melina22]

44 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

I was never tempted to buy anything from LulaRoe. Some of the prints would be too loud and garish for Mrs. Roper from "Three's Company."

There's a reference I haven't heard for a while. Someone gave me a green velour mumu. Sometimes I wear it around the house because it's insanely comfortable, knowing that Mr Melina is guaranteed to call me Mrs Roper. 😁

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

That lady who said she was so poor that she ate crackers for dinner doesn’t look like she just ate crackers for dinner, plus she came off as a real materialistic bitch thinking she was a hot shit business lady looking down her nose at others. 

She said she was eating crackers and cheese for dinner, which, combined, has a high fat and salt content, so that made sense to me - she looked really bloated. She also mentioned having had a botched weight loss surgery in Mexico, so that probably messed up her metabolism for life.

I agree that she came off materialistic, and also like she's bad at managing money. If she had made smart saving and investment decision for the couple of years that she raked in the big bonus checks, she wouldn't have lost her house and cars. Again, I think the "victims" of this scam also carry responsibility for the situation they've put themselves in and the financial decisions they have made. 

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Again, I think the "victims" of this scam also carry responsibility for the situation they've put themselves in and the financial decisions they have made. 

Yes, it seems like most of them were spending the money as fast as it came in, on new inventory, and pricey conventions. They were also under a lot of pressure to look rich in their social media accounts and at their parties and meetings, with designer clothing, expensive jewelry and hair and nails. Fancy cars and homes. So toxic. 

Remember the utterly bizarre story DeAnne told about her mother showering down hundreds of dollars in cash on her children, telling them how incredibly important money was? Wow, DeAnne certainly internalized that lesson. (I wonder if her mother was bipolar? That sounds like a very manic thing to do.) 

You can tell that money is DeAnne and her husband's god, regardless of all their pretence of being so religious. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Melina22

[mmecorday]

I finished watching the series tonight. I had a friend who used to rave about LuLaRoe leggings, talking about how soft they were and how colorful they were. I think in the beginning they were made from quality materials and were properly stored. But the company literally got too big for its britches. They sacrificed quality for quantity in pursuit of profit.

I know far too many people -- most of them women -- who fall prey to these schemes. It's a total cliche to say "If something seems to good to be true, it probably is," but it's a good maxim to keep in mind, especially when dealing with MLM companies. They want your money. They don't care if you make money. They may seem like they do, giving away watches, cars, sets of knives, etc. to top sellers, but that's all just to encourage others to buy into the lie. The retailers claim that the companies treat them well at the conventions, but the attendees have to pay for their own travel and accommodations. 

Ugh. Vacant Head Barbie and her Men Who Look Like Kenny Rogers Reject husband really bugged in their interviews. They are both big time liars. His suits probably cost more than any of their retailers will ever make in a decade selling the company's crappy leggings and she is a vicious idiot unaware that she looks like a drawing of Miss Piggy in a coloring book that a toddler besmirched with unforgiving strokes of crayon. They were both tacky. Both of them were chewing gum on camera.

I'll stick with my leggings purchased from a company that rhymes with Marget.

[AnnMarie17]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:57 AM, Melina22 said:

Oh, and then she says she was a single mother so poor that she and her 7 children had to share one hamburger and fries. Then she says "So I was on a flight..." then adds that she went standby because of course, she was poor. I'm sorry but I've been a poor single mother. I was never so poor that my children and I all had to share one hamburger, but I sure as heck wasn't flying anywhere. 

Right then, I realized she was going to be a very unreliable narrator. 

My husband had his face buried in a game on his phone whilst I was watching this and when she said this, he looked up and said "so the same lady sharing a burger and fries with her seven kids just hopped on a flight???"  He's such a good multi-tasker when it comes to snark.  😍

[Pj3422]

Watching it now… I so want to have a pitcher of margaritas with the print designer. She did Not. Give. A. F. 

Favorite moment so far: Mark edging into the conversation when Deanna was asked about female empowerment. Irony is lost on them. 

[Melina22]

3 hours ago, AnnMarie17 said:

he looked up and said "so the same lady sharing a burger and fries with her seven kids just hopped on a flight???" 

But she flew standup. Like all the poor people do! 😁😁😁

[meatball77]

6 hours ago, Pj3422 said:

Watching it now… I so want to have a pitcher of margaritas with the print designer. She did Not. Give. A. F. 

Favorite moment so far: Mark edging into the conversation when Deanna was asked about female empowerment. Irony is lost on them. 

What about when he said it was udderly ridiculous that women were selling their breastmilk.

Print designer laughing at the burger print was hilarious.

They really threw everything away by being greedy.  It was actually a good idea for a MLM and if they hadn't mismanaged everything they probably would have been in the same space as Mary Kay if they had slowed things down and kept their quality up.

[Darian]

22 hours ago, meatball77 said:

Print designer laughing at the burger print was hilarious.

They really threw everything away by being greedy.  It was actually a good idea for a MLM and if they hadn't mismanaged everything they probably would have been in the same space as Mary Kay if they had slowed things down and kept their quality up.

I liked several of the people, though I can't remember everyone's name. The designer, LaShae, Derryl who wanted to sit at the Mexican restaurant and drink while they raided the headquarters, and one or two others. 

Your last paragraph is what I was saying to my husband last night. When he and I met, my best friend of almost two decades was a sane, lovely woman who a few years later got pulled into an MLM cult (can't remember which one, but it was Amway-like, lots of cleaning products, food stuffs, etc). I tried for a long time to stay friends but she would never, ever give up trying to recruit me and get me to buy that overpriced junk. And it was very, very Jesusy, and I'm an atheist, so eventually, she decided I wasn't friend material. Toxic, I think she said. But before that, the glimpses I got into the culture were a lot like what I saw in this show. 

But it sounds like the tights were high quality and at least twice a year, usually more, my friends and I talk tights and leggings. We're always looking for ones that are warm, durable, big or small enough, etc. They could have gotten rich just off that, and then when they were apparently making quality other items. Greedy scumbags had to ruin a bunch of lives for more money than they would ever need. I hope they end up doing time, or at the least going broke. But people like them always seem to come out of things like this fine. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Darian

[Jeeves]

On 9/12/2021 at 6:35 PM, estellasmum said:

I love all things related to exposing MLMs. . .  . I loved the comparison of DeAnna and Mark from the interviews being all confident and bubbly being juxtaposed with the footage of their deposition where they were much more subdued, "forgot" everything, and seemed like two totally different people. 

I watched all four episodes this afternoon. Wow.

I'm with you on MLMs being exposed. I think the Stidhams are vile, and also loved the editing of their interview and their depositions. Heh. 

I don't have much to add to the comments already posted here. I did feel sorry for the woman who went so high up in the hierarchy and then lost it all. BTW she didn't have a botched weight loss surgery in Mexico. She chose a different WLS procedure which was performed in her home town but went wrong, and refused DeAnne and DeAnne's sister's pressure to go to their doctor in Mexico for his procedure after that. She didn't come across as well as the plaid shirt woman who said she's helped a few thousand women leave the company. But both of them succeeded for awhile as uplines earning big fat bonus checks at the expense of their downlines until it started going wrong. 

[Armchair Critic]

Just started watching...I live close to Amway headquarters, I love to see anything that exposes the MLM shenanigans. 

I always figured Mario Lopez was cheezy and insincere from watching him interview people, but being involved with this and "under their budget" really proves it.

DeAnne doesn't know the address of her own business?!

Edited September 17, 2021 by Armchair Critic

[Armchair Critic]

Also Kelly Clarkson I am disappointed in you too!

[Lsk02]

Maybe I’m giving Mario and Kelly too much credit, but would they have known back then what a crappy company this was? I fully admit I purchased some LLR in its heyday, before the quality took a nose dive. I knew it was an MLM, but figured it wasn’t much different than Mary Kay and Pampered Chef, which have been around forever. It wasn’t until one of the people I purchased from quit and talked about the thousands in inventory she was stuck with that I really began to see that there was something wrong. 
They fooled a lot of people for a few years. 

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

Maybe I’m giving Mario and Kelly too much credit, but would they have known back then what a crappy company this was?

They have managers and agents who do their bookings for them (and collect a percentage of the pay). Those people should have done the research before booking the gigs for their clients. Who knows, maybe they did, but their attitude is that "a paycheck is a paycheck."

[MerBearStare]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:53 PM, mmecorday said:

I know far too many people -- most of them women -- who fall prey to these schemes. It's a total cliche to say "If something seems to good to be true, it probably is," but it's a good maxim to keep in mind, especially when dealing with MLM companies.

Yeah, 50% of me is like, "Come on! Everyone knows MLM's are a scam!" And the other 50% recognizes that it is mostly women who are taken advantage of by these and this is like where capitalism and the patriarchy intersect to fuck over women. 

6 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

Maybe I’m giving Mario and Kelly too much credit, but would they have known back then what a crappy company this was?

Yeah, I agree. I don't think I even heard of Lularoe until maybe a year ago. They probably thought it was a corporate gig just like other ones I'm sure they've done before (well, like I'm sure Kelly Clarkson has done before). 

It was interesting to learn what, legally, is the difference between an MLM and a pyramid scheme. When the deluded woman who still sells Lularoe said something like, "They're not doing anything I haven't seen other companies do, so those companies should be investigated to," she ended up making the correct argument, which I don't think was her intention at all. Yes, they all should be investigated!

[AZChristian]

I was watching a couple of the new episodes of Dr. Phil (two episodes on one topic).  So Robin didn't change her wardrobe between episode 1 and episode 2.  When she walked out with Dr. P at the end of the show, she was wearing a purple and green harlequin-pattern top with a black and white flower-patterned skirt.

My immediate thought:  Who dresses her now?  LuLaRoe?????

[Irlandesa]

On 9/12/2021 at 1:04 AM, nonnybaby said:

I loved all of the women who quit the business and had the courage to participate in this documentary. I can't help but think that if LuLaRoe was a legitimate business, they would coach their salespeople on financial literacy instead of all the mumbo jumbo cult-like motivation spiels. But if they did, it would lift the veil on their scam of a business.

If it was a legitimate business, they'd want more control over the sales, I'm thinking.  But as one of the participants pointed out, they wanted the people who sold for them--especially the higher up people--to be completely reliant on them.  Get rid of that second source of income and spend all your money. 

What I wanted to know is if anyone who made a lot of money in bonuses didn't spend that money and had it banked instead.

On 9/13/2021 at 4:37 PM, zenithwit said:

This docuseries really hit home for me.  While I personally wasn't LuLaRoe's target audience (like @greekmom I thought LuLaRue leggings and clothes were hideous), many of my high school peers were. 

I remember reading about a LulaRoe pop up at my work.  It wasn't until this documentary came out that I realized that LulaRoe and Lulalemon are two different companies. I always thought it was strange that lululemon was doing a pop up.

Quote

I'm kinda curious about the future of LuLaRue (i.e. will it go out of business or become a more stable MLM like Mary Kay).  The amount of growth they experienced within a couple of years was off the charts and they clearly burned a lot of bridges in the process.  Unless they pivot to a slightly younger or older demographic, I just don't see how they can maintain a customer base within my peer group.

I thought it was interesting what the MLM expert said at the end when he pointed out that you can cut off the head of the serpent but it just grows new branches.  (Or whatever his analogy was.)

It's true.  There are people I know on Facebook that always seem to be selling something new.

13 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

Maybe I’m giving Mario and Kelly too much credit, but would they have known back then what a crappy company this was?

Yeah.  It was probably set up by a manager or some other booking company.  A lot of artists are sold as a product.  It will cost you X amount of money for them to perform at your corporate event.

That's why I felt Darryl was over the top.  "I can't listen to Kelly Clarkson any more." Or his "I want to watch the feds raid the building from Miguel's." 

My dude, you weren't one of the women taken advantage of.  In fact, you took a paycheck and worked there, just like Kelly.  You heard these women crying every day.

[Lsk02]

Great point about Darryl. I’ve been following Roberta (the one who said she realized it was a cult) and she talks a lot about how hard it was for her to come to terms with being both a victim and a perpetrator in the whole scam. She talked about the guilt she feels for roping others in, and has interviewed many who have family members who don’t speak to them and lost long time friends because of their behaviors related to LLR. Darryl definitely didn’t seem to have that same feeling of responsibility. 

[chocolatine]

15 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I remember reading about a LulaRoe pop up at my work.  It wasn't until this documentary came out that I realized that LulaRoe and Lulalemon are two different companies. I always thought it was strange that lululemon was doing a pop up.

They both had quality issues with their leggings, so that's probably why you thought they were the same company. (Some of Lululemon's $90 leggings turned out to be see-through, and a lot of them had problems with pilling, for which the company's CEO at the time blamed the fact that most women's thighs rub together. 🤦‍♀️ The company has since hired a new CEO and phased out the fabric that had the pilling problem. Their sales have increased during the pandemic since people who work from home wear more "athleisure" now.)

[Jeeves]

9 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

Great point about Darryl. I’ve been following Roberta (the one who said she realized it was a cult) and she talks a lot about how hard it was for her to come to terms with being both a victim and a perpetrator in the whole scam. She talked about the guilt she feels for roping others in, and has interviewed many who have family members who don’t speak to them and lost long time friends because of their behaviors related to LLR. Darryl definitely didn’t seem to have that same feeling of responsibility. 

Thanks for posting that about Roberta. I went back and FF'd through a bit of the series to watch some of Roberta's and Courtney's talking heads again. They present different attitudes and responses to their experiences in LLR. I'm not going to demonize Courtney; it's her personality and her life, which seems to have crashed down around her along with her LLR "business." But it's an interesting contrast. Roberta's had the attitude and energy to focus on others, while at least as presented in the series, Courtney talked about herself. 

IMO Courtney was very receptive to the "spend big to show you're successful" message that the LLR management was pushing at its high-level reps. So she got the fancy cars and designer clothes and splashed out on expensive entertainment, etc. That of course just kept her needing more and more income which kept her running faster and faster on the LLR treadmill.  And making more bucks for - LLR's owners. She did balk at pushing her husband to quit his job, and it seems like she also fell out of favor with DeAnne when she refused to go down to Mexico for DeAnne's doctor's weight loss surgery. I suspect that Courtney's not a good money manager anyway. She said she was in a lot of debt (maxed out credit cards?) when she was first recruited into LLR. I'm sorry she's struggling financially, but at least she has a roof over her head and hasn't lost custody of her kids. I do see her as fabulously vulnerable to MLM messaging, from initial recruitment to the "fake it till you make it" and the pursuit of the glittering fancy "prizes" and big money and sense of importance and "leadership." 

Roberta was a refreshing presence in the series. I'm glad she saw through the LLR bullcr*p and got out, and has the energy and drive to connect with others and to talk about her responsibility for her own actions. 

I'm not going to be too hard on Derryl. He was a cog in the machinery and he needed the job. 

[Lillith]

So I binged this yesterday and my goodness I have thoughts. So many thoughts. 

I am not the demographic for LuLaRoe, I'm a Gen-Xer who lives in NYC. I also for a time got them mixed up with Lululemon because of the whole leggings thing. It's always astonishing that educated women who all seemed to be in their 30's (or at least late 20s) never had the realization that if something sounds too good to be true, it's because it is. I felt a lot of empathy because I was a struggling single mom who started her own business. But it was an industry I had a lot of experience in and was under the umbrella of a large established company. My main thought in watching all of these women who were higher up in the food chain was: "Don't they have accountants??" Like the first thing you're supposed to do is get a reliable accountant/fiancial planner. Not only did that one woman not save a dime, she likely did not put anything aside for taxes etc. Clearly her husband had major reservations but at no point did she have an adult conversation with him from the sound of it. Such a total lack of common sense and lack of backbone. Acting like she was forced to spend that money. 

DeAnn and Mark are such shallow phonies. And boy are the boys who were intervied and shown in the depositions smarmy, smug jerks. I'll be honest I'd rather you be a mean jerk because at least that's honest. But these phony "caring" types who claim moral high ground and concern for families really irk me. And more lack of sense. You're business is exploding and you pull in family to put in major positions they have no clue about. Nothing wrong with them wanting their kids to have the opportunity but not bringing in anyone with actual expertise is simply boneheaded.  Especially since Mark is such a self proclaimed brilliant entrepreneur. 

I thought it was a really well done documentary. And they even could have wrung another episode out of it. 

And yes it has to be added, those are the ugliest clothes I have ever seen. And I was a kid during the 70's and a teen in the 80's. 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Lillith
Wrong "their".

[Jeeves]

13 minutes ago, Lillith said:

My main thought in watching all of these women who were higher up in the food chain was: "Don't they have accountants??" Like the first thing you're supposed to do is get a reliable accountant/financial planner. Not only did that one woman not save a dime, she likely did not put anything aside for taxes etc.

You nailed it there. I've never been involved with an MLM, but several members of my extended family have been. From Amway back in the 90's, to cosmetics in the 00's, to several of the current ones. Fortunately they have never been pushy with me, and I've quietly resisted all those sales pitches when any were tentatively made to me, so that's all good. Once, in a private conversation, a former banker told me that they'd never seen anybody make money from their MLM activities although they didn't go into detail. 

It amazes me that these MLMs including LLR, pitch their deal to people as "you can have your own business!" when in fact they don't. Even the highest level distributors are just under contract to the company, and I'd bet a hot dinner that the fine print in the LLR agreements lets LLR totally control the relationship. Including terminating it at will. As was said a few times in the documentary, in all those "training" sessions and seminars that LLR gave to its distributors at all levels, there was no real business education or coaching. It was all rah rah, buy inventory, sign up downlines, buy more inventory, rah rah . . .  It seems like it was all hype, all the time.

[meatball77]

The company pressuring the husbands into quitting their jobs and the women to hire someone to do their parenting (when that's why the women joined) was just crazy.

[Klaw]

Wow what a great binge watch - I would not have minded a few more episodes because the psychological pathologies on display are fascinating to me (although I of course felt sorry for all the women/people they have hurt) but good gravy.

I'm with others who marvelled at the complete lack of fiscal responsibility with some of them ... like did they hire accountants? Save anything? Get financial planners? Going into massive debt makes me itch - I am not judging( it's the American way and it's bullshit) but spending everything as soon as it comes in would just freak me out too much.

One thing I have to ask of fellow parents here, being childfree myself, if you were getting checks worth thousands every month wouldn't most of that go to paying down debt, keeping a roof over one's head or, Idk, saving up for your kid's COLLEGE EDUCATION??? When the woman (forget the name - the one who had the botched surgery and lost everything and eats crackers and cheese for dinner) talked about getting a $42K check in one month and went out and bought 2 giant ass SUVs ... I just was aghast - like, really???!!! Look, I get rewarding yourself with a nice handbag or nice pair of shoes but I kept thinking, man, if I had kids Id be terrified of not being able to provide for them and I can't imagine spending all that money without thinking about their (and mine) future??? I mean, I would be freaked out about spending like that, kids or not, but it just seems especially scary to do it when you have other mouths to feed. 

That family was awful. Jim and Tammy Faye (TM @nosedive:) sorry, I won't bother using their real names) are just... wow... the brassy hair and heavy makeup and tacky, tacky clothes. I agree with others that the one son is on something - he definitely looked drugged up at the depo, which is interesting because usually that's one of the first questions asked by the lawyer ("are you on any medication or have you ingested any alcohol or recreational drugs prior to this depo"... you want to make sure the deponent is not under the influence). Although i clearly could see this asshat lying ... Tammy Faye's little smirks and smug looks were driving me nuts along with Jim's condescending corporate word salad... And when Tammy Fay was super skinny she looked a bit like that dude from Twisted Sister. 

I also liked that the one journalist spoke about the blinding whiteness of LulaRoe and I noticed how glaring it was in the photos and in the scenes of their conventions. Also lol at Lashae Noping her way out of the cruise! 

The whole vibe is weird and creepy af and I am still thinking about it. I remember a work colleague back in the 00s sold me some Arbonne products and I actually really liked them, although they were too expensive, but I wonder if she made any real money off of it as she was not pushy about it at all. MLMs are sketchy af and I feel bad for all the vulnerable people that get sucked into them. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Klaw
Because grammar is important

[GrammyPammy]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:52 AM, chocolatine said:

 

I did giggle like a 12-year-old at all the pictures of design "fails" in the crotch area of the leggings.

There is a group on Facebook called “WTF Lularoe Fails” with tons of them!

[formergr]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:25 PM, Darian said:

LaShae, Derryl who wanted to sit at the Mexican restaurant and drink while they raided the headquarters,

I was dying when Darryl compared Mark and Deanna to some Star Trek or some such villain. Boy was snarky as fuck, and I would love to join him at the Mexican restaurant for some margs and more snark.

on a more serious note, what struck me about the women who were so successful at it talking about how busy and stressed they got and how little time they had for their families. So…just like corporate jobs can be, huh? It was ironic given how they all got into it because they wanted a flexible job that let them be SAH moms. And didn’t one of the women at the beginning say she’d tried to corporate thing but hated always being away from home etc (they showed her with a bunch of people at what looked like a work dinner)?

Edited September 21, 2021 by formergr

[CSunshine76]

I’m not going to deny that Deanna and Mark are disgusting human beings, with seemingly no feelings or remorse.  But, I  will never in my life understand people that allow themselves to get sucked into these schemes.  These women whining and complaining about how much in debt they went? Your decision. Their husbands were pressured to quit their jobs? Again, your decision. You HAD to buy a Louis Vuitton? Puh-lease!!

NO ONE forced these people to do this, so I’m torn as to what liability LLR actually has. There’s something to be said for self awareness and responsibility. What a shit show all around. (As an aside I don’t use FB so I have zero experience with LLR outside of news and Meri from Sister Wives, lol)

[DanielleBowden]

Deanna and Mark are awful people. Absolutely no sense of remorse or responsibility.  Deanna with her "aren't I adorable" schtick.  Not cute.  The graphic that was put up showing revenue split between bonuses and clothing was telling.  I agree that the retailers have to take some ownership of their own mess (diving into debt head on, no/poor  business or financial plans) but, the company certainly did not have their backs by totally oversaturating the market and the quality nose dive.  They were actually storing clothing out in the elements! The convention video snippets were also telling, you already have all the tools you need, you just have to work hard.  Running a small business is so much more than that.  Their son admitted it was a pyramid scheme. And their response, tee hee, isn't he cute, he used the wrong words.  You'd love him if you met him.  Barf.  I went to one LLR party years back and bought a skirt.  I know I never wore it but I think I still have it.  It was an obligation buy and I know I didn't like the print.  I liked another print but was told it was a hot item and totally sold out.  At the time I remember thinking, what?  Isn't  this like Tupperware clothing?  I didn't know that was their angle.  I'll have to dig that skirt out and take a closer look.

[Melina22]

17 minutes ago, DanielleBowden said:

Isn't  this like Tupperware clothing?  I didn't know that was their angle. 

I wonder how this company is different from Tupperware (is Tupperware still a thing? Over the years I went to so many parties. Good product though) and  multiple other MLMs I see everywhere which don't seem to be attracting lawsuits and bad press. 

[Jeeves]

11 hours ago, CSunshine76 said:

I’m not going to deny that Deanna and Mark are disgusting human beings, with seemingly no feelings or remorse.  But, I  will never in my life understand people that allow themselves to get sucked into these schemes.  These women whining and complaining about how much in debt they went? Your decision. Their husbands were pressured to quit their jobs? Again, your decision. You HAD to buy a Louis Vuitton? Puh-lease!!

NO ONE forced these people to do this, so I’m torn as to what liability LLR actually has. There’s something to be said for self awareness and responsibility. What a shit show all around. (As an aside I don’t use FB so I have zero experience with LLR outside of news and Meri from Sister Wives, lol)

Before I reply to that, I want to say how much I enjoyed @DanielleBowden's post. Well said. The Stidhams are just vile.

About the people who got sucked into this MLM. IMO it's usually by a process like the old analogy of "how do you boil a live frog?" You don't throw him into a pot of boiling water. You set him down in a pot of water at a comfortable temp and then start slowing raising it. You don't start out telling a woman, sign up right here to have dozens of downlines and the responsibility for them and an expectation that you'll be generating X thousands of dollars a month in revenue to the company. And we'll pressure your husband to quit his job to work in "your" Lularoe business and you'll pay someone to care for your kids and your house because you're too busy hawking our ugly clothes.

It all goes in steps. The first step, they buy the clothes and like them. The next step, their friendly LLR hun shows them how they can get clothes at wholesale and sell what they don't want to keep to their friends and make a profit. Then more steps, and all that time they are being love-bombed by their hun and the company's aggressive marketing. We saw the rah-rah glitz and mass hysteria of those LLR corporate events. They have new friends who are also in LLR, or existing friends who have joined, so LLR starts occupying a lot of their social world as well as their time. It just grows and grows and they take steps which don't seem radical at the time.

Until, as Roberta Blevins said in this documentary, she sat at one of those corporate events listening to Mark Stidham hollering nonsense, and thought, "OMG,  I'm in a CULT."  Or if they don't have that kind of revelation, until their "business" goes into the red and stays there, and they end up stuck with a sh*t ton of inventory of ugly clothes that they can't sell to anybody because they've long since maxed out sales to family and friends AND have turned all their former customers into competing/downline LLR sellers too. 

Several years ago I spent a lot of time reading at a website (Google Pink Truth) dedicated to discussing the flaws and problems with Mary Kay, one of the longest-lived MLMs. And although LLR went super crazy and its products went from decent to sh*tty, IMO both companies are MLMs and the cards are stacked against the huns and in favor of the company at all times. I learned about a woman who'd done very well in MK and risen to their highest levels of huns (can't remember what it's called, they were a distributor with lots of downlines), and was suddenly terminated by the company. And learned she had no legal recourse, Her "business" that she thought she owned? Was just a fancy distributorship deal with the Mary Kay corporation. The contract that established it allowed the company to terminate it easily, and that was that. 

IMO MLMs exploit people who want to generate income in a more flexible and fun way than a typical job. The company can really make hay if their target doesn't know much about business, money management, and finance in general. LLR's not that different from the other MLMs. They just got wild and crazy enough to go viral on social media. Mary Kay's managed to keep rolling without getting so much attention. But IMO if you learn about MK you won't be surprised by a lot of what you learn about LLR in this excellent documentary series.

Sorry to write a novella here. I just really don't like MLMs. 

[Melina22]

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

learned about a woman who'd done very well in MK and risen to their highest levels of huns (can't remember what it's called, they were a distributor

Why would MK terminate her if she was doing so much business for them? But I get your point. She's supposedly her own boss, but if that were true, she couldn't be suddenly terminated without recourse. Wow, how traumatic! 

[Jeeves]

Just now, Melina22 said:

Why would MK terminate her if she was doing so much business for them? But I get your point. She's supposedly her own boss, but if that were true, she couldn't be suddenly terminated without recourse. Wow, how traumatic! 

I don't remember the details, but there was a court decision upholding the company's right to terminate the contract without owing her damages. It must have been at least 15 years ago. 

IIRC one of the huge issues with huns in MLMs is all the product that they buy and then can't sell, and how to unload it if they quit. As we saw in this documentary, LLR first tried to institute a no-questions-asked, non-expiring 100% return policy to quiet down the increasing social media volume of complaints, then restricted the policy - no doubt to stop the financial bleeding. I believe MK huns have had similar problems with inventory. I just think MK as a corporation is more staid and less crazy than LLR so it's still surviving and for all I know, thriving. 

[MargeGunderson]

LuLaRoe and other MLMs also push the narrative that if you aren’t doing well it’s because you aren’t working hard enough. Convenient for the company (it’s not the company/compensation structure/crappy clothes), and damaging to the individual. It’s not just a work fail if you don’t succeed, it’s a personal, moral failure. It contributes to how hard it is for people to get out, even when it’s clear that they aren’t making great money, etc. I have some sympathy for the people who get out, but none for people who are actively in it.

[BitterApple]

30 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

LuLaRoe and other MLMs also push the narrative that if you aren’t doing well it’s because you aren’t working hard enough. Convenient for the company (it’s not the company/compensation structure/crappy clothes), and damaging to the individual. It’s not just a work fail if you don’t succeed, it’s a personal, moral failure. It contributes to how hard it is for people to get out, even when it’s clear that they aren’t making great money, etc. I have some sympathy for the people who get out, but none for people who are actively in it.

I thought it was funny how their leadership seminars shifted in tone once consultants starting speaking up about about receiving crappy inventory. All of a sudden they were pushing not being a complainer or a drama queen, and instead focusing on how YOU can do more to sell, sell, sell. Deanna and Mark are absolute wizards at gaslighting.

Their constant gum chewing was driving me crazy as well. How crass and tacky, especially when you're giving a deposition. I agree their one son looks like he lives off a steady diet of Red Bull and cocaine. 

 

[Almost 3000]

OK, you may think I'm part of the problem but I fell into the LLRoe hole while watching this documentary. Never wanted any of this product but have been following the problems of this company for a long time because I find MLMs interesting and this one was particularly fascinating because the stuff was so goofy looking. I generally like mismatched outfits but not this stuff. Anyway while watching the show I wandered over to ebay and looked up LLRoe Halloween leggings just to see the prices and crazy patterns. Well, I bought some and just got them. They are buttery soft, fit well and have a fun, goofy horror themed print. Hey, it's a cheap and comfortable costume and hopefully helped out someone's business who seemed to be unloading their stock.

[Melina22]

14 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

They are buttery soft, fit well and have a fun, goofy horror themed print. Hey, it's a cheap and comfortable costume and hopefully helped out someone's business who seemed to be unloading their stock.

It only makes sense that there are good things about their products or they could never have gotten so huge. There's a limit to what you can brainwash people into buying. There's a reason I bought several pieces of Tupperware and various bags and multiple types of makeup over the years - I liked the products. But each time I looked into the feasibility of becoming a seller, I knew I wasn't close to energetic and driven enough to make any money on it. 

[Goshengir1]

In 2016 I felt like every young woman I worked with was getting sucked into selling LuLaRoe, and I went to one popup party at someone's house and tried on a couple things, but nothing in my size was a pattern I liked so I didn't buy anything.  I also kept getting invited to parties on FB which I found really annoying.  None of them are selling it now, and I wonder what they did with all of their left over inventory.  One thing that did appeal to me about LuLaRoe was that they seemed to cater to styles that were comfortable for larger women, and I thought they could be attractive if the pattern wasn't too loud and ugly. So I was surprised on the documentary when it turned out DeAnn was pressuring her employees to be thin and get weight loss surgery, because I thought they wanted to sell to real sized women and it would be a selling point if the associate was curvy and rocking the styles.  Then I realized that DeAnn is the worst sort of woman because she says she's all about supporting strong, independent women, and then it turns out she's actually pressuring them to be whatever was considered to be the perfect housewife in the 1950's, including being thin, PLUS maintaining a career as a full time business woman.  She made my skin crawl with that baby voice and mannerisms, and the cutesy way she was behaving with her husband. And speaking of the husband, didn't he say he knew from childhood having a job wasn't for him? He's too good to slave away at a regular 9 to 5 job, but can marry an entrepreneurial woman and ride on her coattails I guess.