S01.E03: What If…The World Lost Its Mightiest Heroes?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Nick Fury struggles to launch The Avengers when candidates are targeted by a serial killer.

Dropping Wednesday, August 25, 2021.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E03: What If... The World Lost Its Mightiest Heroes?

I am not sure why the Hulk exploded, but I liked the story well enough.

[phalange]

Coulson's password, lmao  #stevestevesteveilovesteve 

At first, I thought the person behind the murders of the Avengers was Loki, but I like the premise of it being Hank Pym taking down the Avengers Initiative because of Hope and Janet dying as agents. Though I wonder why Janet and Hope would be SHIELD agents, but not Hank as well.

Good thing Fury still has Carol on speed dial in this version of reality. I feel like she could probably take out Loki and his army pretty quick considering she can destroy ships just by flying through them. 

46 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I am not sure why the Hulk exploded, but I liked the story well enough.

Hank is shown enlarging Hulk's heart. 

[arc]

Decent enough story, I guess, but wow the dialogue was clunky and overwrought.

Lake Bell did a pretty convincing ScarJo. Mick Wingert wasn't bad at doing a RDJ. I genuinely must have no idea what Jeremy Renner sounds like, because that was actually him and I thought they hired a soundalike.

I guess the Watcher didn't introduce the premise up front because that would have given away the mystery killer. 

[Anduin]

Was ScarJo too expensive for a bit of voice acting, or was the dispute brewing back when the audio was recorded? I suspect the former, because can you name two Jeremy Renner movies? I can name at least three ScarJo movies outside the MCU, but Renner only gets his Bourne movie. And I've never looked into the animation process, but surely dialogue is done first so the animators can sync up the mouths. Though what was with Renner's voice? He didn't sound like himself.

As for the story itself, it was fine. Surprised they brought back a character I'd consider tertiary at best, but I liked the Loki/Fury teamup to lure him out. How did Loki know what to say? Unless he had an earpiece with Fury feeding him lines, or he tagged in right as it was punch time. I dunno.

Also, Tony keels over. They don't even try any kind of resuscitation on him? Straight to dead? I get that it wouldn't work, but they don't know that. OTOH, this is an action-adventure show, not a medical drama. I suppose I can live with it.

[arc]

2 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Was ScarJo too expensive for a bit of voice acting, or was the dispute brewing back when the audio was recorded?

The dispute happened just a few months ago when the choice was made to put Black Widow on streaming "day and date". The voices were likely all recorded over a year ago.

[Anduin]

20 minutes ago, arc said:

The dispute happened just a few months ago when the choice was made to put Black Widow on streaming "day and date". The voices were likely all recorded over a year ago.

Yes, I suspected as much.

[Spartan Girl]

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I need a sequel episode of Carol wiping the floor with Loki!

Wow, Betty! It’s been a while! Too bad she had to watch poor Bruce getting blown up like that. As gruesome as it was, I can’t help remember that one fan theory about Ant-Man and Thanos…

This was a pretty ballsy concept of an evil Hank Pym killing off (almost) all of the Avengers. Too bad he couldn’t take out Ross too. I swear, why can’t that guy ever get any comeuppance?!?

[Sakura12]

Maybe you should've had Carol on stand-by while you made the deal with Loki, Fury. You let him take over the world in a day. 

Interesting that it was Pym that went crazy and killed off the Avengers. 

I really wonder how they decided on the voice actors, since we keep getting a mix of originals and new people. And how did Lake Bell do a better job with Natasha then Renner did as Clint. Lol

[AnimeMania]

How could Thor already be in an Avengers Initiative file if his "Hammer" just arrived. What did the file say "Recruit owner of man-made immovable hammer".

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Maybe you should've had Carol on stand-by while you made the deal with Loki, Fury. You let him take over the world in a day.

He had the beeper thing in his hand before he went to talk to Loki, then put it back in the glove box. The hell? He could have at least called Carol first, give her time to get to earth so she could help in case things went sideways, which they clearly did.

There was something oddly poignant about Bruce's death here, that he Hulked out and then couldn't pull the other guy back before he exploded. I didn't know Betty Ross exists in MCU canon. Was that Liv Tyler voicing her? I didn't see her name in the credits, but I wasn't really paying attention either.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, Anduin said:

Was ScarJo too expensive for a bit of voice acting, or was the dispute brewing back when the audio was recorded? I suspect the former, because can you name two Jeremy Renner movies? I can name at least three ScarJo movies outside the MCU, but Renner only gets his Bourne movie. And I've never looked into the animation process, but surely dialogue is done first so the animators can sync up the mouths. Though what was with Renner's voice? He didn't sound like himself.

As for the story itself, it was fine. Surprised they brought back a character I'd consider tertiary at best, but I liked the Loki/Fury teamup to lure him out. How did Loki know what to say? Unless he had an earpiece with Fury feeding him lines, or he tagged in right as it was punch time. I dunno.

Also, Tony keels over. They don't even try any kind of resuscitation on him? Straight to dead? I get that it wouldn't work, but they don't know that. OTOH, this is an action-adventure show, not a medical drama. I suppose I can live with it.

Michael Douglas, Samuel L. Jackson, Jeremy Renner, Clark Gregg, Mark Ruffalo, Jaime Alexander and Tom Hiddleston.  I don't think the problem was expense.  Maybe ScarJo just didn't want to voice a cartoon or there was a schedule conflict or something.

[Spartan Girl]

44 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Was that Liv Tyler voicing her?

No, it was someone else. Wish they WOULD bring back Liv Tyler though.

[MochaJay]

What was the single divergent point? Hope joining Shield? 

I could have done with The Watcher interrupting the story when Fury visited Hope's grave, to give us 30 seconds of exposition and flashback. 

I enjoyed the bulk of the episode, but the first two led me to believe we would always understand the casual link between 1st change and ripple effects. Are we going to see wider ripples every week so that the final episode is full insanity with no indication what changed first?

 

[AnimeMania]

9 minutes ago, MochaJay said:

I enjoyed the bulk of the episode, but the first two led me to believe we would always understand the casual link between 1st change and ripple effects. Are we going to see wider ripples every week so that the final episode is full insanity with no indication what changed first?

I don't think that the different episodes have any relationship to each other. Wasn't that the original Captain America, if the episodes were related, he wouldn't exist.

[AimingforYoko]

And Lake Bell joins the roster of Marvel/DC actors, along with Ryan Reynolds, Idris Elba, Ben Affleck, Laurence Fishburne and Josh Brolin.

This was a different one. In the comics, Hank's always had this side to him, but in the MCU he's been willing to bend the rules but not become a mass-murderer.

[calliope1975]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I really wonder how they decided on the voice actors, since we keep getting a mix of originals and new people.

My guess is they just asked and some (make that a lot) said yes, and some passed. Last week I was surprised that Josh Brolin did VO and this week it was Michael Douglas. I doubt they're making bank on likely a day of studio time, and some probably could have recorded from home if they had a good set up. I don't fault the actors who chose not to reprise their characters, but I do appreciate the ones who did. 

I'm taking each episode as completely different universes. 

 

[thuganomics85]

And in today's episode of What If..., we find out the obvious truth that without the Avengers, Earth would be so, so screwed.  No surprise there!  Well, I guess Captain Marvel might fix things soon...

Actually didn't predict that the deaths were at the hands of a vengeful Hank Pym (helpful that they kept Michael Douglas' name out of the opening credits.)  I can dig it though: I always got the sense that Hank was one bad day away from being just as ruthless as some of the normal MCU villains and I can certainly buy him going off the deep end after Hope's death.  And I guess this means Scott will never assume the mantle, sniff!  Hope he actually keeps his Baskin Robbins job in this timeline!

Lake Bell did a pretty good job as Natasha, although since I'm currently watching the Harley Quinn show as well, I did hear Poison Ivy come through every now and then.  But I honestly felt like she stood above most of the movie cast, who really seemed to be phoning it in here: especially Jeremy Renner.  Samuel L. Jackson and Clarke Gregg were alright, but I felt like Tom Hiddelston was the only one who really put any effort into this one.  To be fair, maybe it was more about voice work being a new thing for some of the cast and I suspect it isn't as easy as one might think.

I'm surprised they remembered Betty Ross exists! 

[MochaJay]

 

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Quote

I enjoyed the bulk of the episode, but the first two led me to believe we would always understand the casual link between 1st change and ripple effects. Are we going to see wider ripples every week so that the final episode is full insanity with no indication what changed first?

I don't think that the different episodes have any relationship to each other. Wasn't that the original Captain America, if the episodes were related, he wouldn't exist.

I agree each episode is a separate timeline, my question is more about the story structure. If there is always a single inciting change then the ripples start small and spiral out into increasing divergence. A story can focus on what happens immediately after the change, or show the change plus the later effects, or skip entirely to where things are unrecognisable.

Episode 1 - follows the initial ripples from Peggy's decision. She has similar values, similar skills and the same mission so we see 20 mins where Peggy's story almost directly overlays Steve's story, and in the last 5 minutes we see increasing divergence as Peggy & Cthulhu portal to the future, the US has the Hydra Stomper and there is no Winter Soldier.  We don't see much of the new reality of this timeline

 Episode 2 - has a flashback to the moment of divergence. Most of the story happens years later with characters who have already been changed by the ripples, but we can infer the connections.

Episode 3 - does not tell us the moment of divergence. We pick up where the ripples from the Pym's lives majorly impact the Avengers lives who where mostly unaltered in the years since the divergence.

...

Episode 10 - will the story pick up with a wildly diverged world without any clue what changed first?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

8 minutes ago, MochaJay said:

Episode 3 - does not tell us the moment of divergence.

Was Hope Van Dyne ever a SHIELD agent, though? Janet may have been, since she worked closely with her husband and that's how she ended up in the Quantum Realm in the main timeline, but I was under the impression that Hank kept Hope as far away from his work as he could. He never even really talked about her mother that much, and that was why she resented him in the first Ant Man movie. If, in this altered universe, she did join SHIELD that's where the realities diverge. Without her doing fieldwork for Fury, she wouldn't have been killed in the line of duty, and we don't even find out what mission she was on, just that she went on one and never came back from it.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Was Hope Van Dyne ever a SHIELD agent, though? Janet may have been, since she worked closely with her husband and that's how she ended up in the Quantum Realm in the main timeline, but I was under the impression that Hank kept Hope as far away from his work as he could. He never even really talked about her mother that much, and that was why she resented him in the first Ant Man movie. If, in this altered universe, she did join SHIELD that's where the realities diverge. Without her doing fieldwork for Fury, she wouldn't have been killed in the line of duty, and we don't even find out what mission she was on, just that she went on one and never came back from it.

This is all fan-wank but maybe in this reality Hank went so far as to keep Hope out of his company just in case she tried to replicate his work.  So, she joined SHIELD - in part because she knew he'd hate it (recall per the Ant-Man movie that Hank and Hope had a pretty bad relationship).  Pym probably demanded that Fury reject Hope and Fury told him to fuck off.  Eventually she got killed as an agent of SHIELD.  By who/what?  It doesn't really matter.  Hank Pym, who was always probably one bad day from going supervillain after his wife disappeared into Quantum Hell (while on a SHIELD-requested mission), finally had the really bad day of his daughter dying.  So, he re-dedicated his life to wreaking vengeance on the organization and people.  

Due respect to the previous poster, but I didn't need or want The Watcher to pop in with exposition/flashback about Hope.  What we got worked fine.  I probably should have enabled CC because for a minute I kept think that Black Widow was yelling "It's all about Hulk!" and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how it was about Hulk.  Because it wasn't.

[arc]

Yeah but also “it’s about Hope!” is a cheat to begin with. Why wouldn’t Natasha have just said “it’s Hank Pym!”????? If I ever get grudge murdered, I’m not gonna leave behind cryptic clues, I’m gonna just straight up say who it is.

[Racj82]

14 hours ago, Anduin said:

Was ScarJo too expensive for a bit of voice acting, or was the dispute brewing back when the audio was recorded? I suspect the former, because can you name two Jeremy Renner movies? I can name at least three ScarJo movies outside the MCU, but Renner only gets his Bourne movie. And I've never looked into the animation process, but surely dialogue is done first so the animators can sync up the mouths. Though what was with Renner's voice? He didn't sound like himself.

As for the story itself, it was fine. Surprised they brought back a character I'd consider tertiary at best, but I liked the Loki/Fury teamup to lure him out. How did Loki know what to say? Unless he had an earpiece with Fury feeding him lines, or he tagged in right as it was punch time. I dunno.

Also, Tony keels over. They don't even try any kind of resuscitation on him? Straight to dead? I get that it wouldn't work, but they don't know that. OTOH, this is an action-adventure show, not a medical drama. I suppose I can live with it.

Renner

Wind River, The Town, Mission Impossible four. Four movie off the top of my head and I watch any of those over ScarJo's output easy.

The top three earners in the MCU all sat this is out and I think it's because they are the top three earners. I don't begrudge them but I would down to get payed even a downgraded sum to do voiceover in my pajamas. But, whatever.

[Anduin]

24 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Renner

Wind River, The Town, Mission Impossible four. Four movie off the top of my head and I watch any of those over ScarJo's output easy.

The top three earners in the MCU all sat this is out and I think it's because they are the top three earners. I don't begrudge them but I would down to get payed even a downgraded sum to do voiceover in my pajamas. But, whatever.

At the time, I completely forgot any Renner movies. It's just interesting how some people come back for animation or not. It's a real mixed bag.

[Racj82]

14 minutes ago, Anduin said:

At the time, I completely forgot any Renner movies. It's just interesting how some people come back for animation or not. It's a real mixed bag.

I think they are just too expensive. But, with Widow, Cap and Iron Man. They are all dead. The actors may not want to do anything further with those characters even in voice form for right now. Let it breathe. I know Black Widow just came out but I mean past that. All this was done a while ago.

[Linderhill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhZPPsW-VWo

according to this vlogger all of the What If...? episodes will be linked unlike the original comic book.  

Nice to see Betty Ross again and interesting to see Mark Ruffalo as Bruce/Hulk instead of Ed Norton.  An interesting episode and it touches on the fact that Hank did go off the deep end in the comics; he beat Janet and they divorced.  Fun to see the Yellowjacket suit again, it was one of the costumes/names Hank used in the comics too.

(FYI Jeremy Renner movies SWAT, American Hustle, Arrival and The Hurt Locker for which he was nominated for an Oscar)

[blackwing]

I thought this episode was boring.  And I agree, the entire concept of the “What If” comic book is that there is a moment in time when something different happens, and that changes the events as we know it.  I guess it was supposed to be “What If Hope Van Dyne was a SHIELD agent and died?”  Ok. 
 

I think it’s great that they get some of the original actors to voice their character, but really, I think it’s more just for publicity.  The Chris Evans stand in did a fine job in episode 1 and I wouldn’t have known the difference. 

16 hours ago, Anduin said:

Was ScarJo too expensive for a bit of voice acting, or was the dispute brewing back when the audio was recorded? I suspect the former, because can you name two Jeremy Renner movies? I can name at least three ScarJo movies outside the MCU, but Renner only gets his Bourne movie.

 

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

Renner

Wind River, The Town, Mission Impossible four. Four movie off the top of my head and I watch any of those over ScarJo's output easy.

Two Mission Impossible movies.  Plus I think what was his first big lead role, the Best Picture winner “The Hurt Locker”.  And “American Hustle”.  I dislike the MCU version of Hawkeye but I like Renner as an actor.

[Twilight Man]

Was expecting to see War Machine standing alongside Fury and Carol at the end saying

"Let's do this for Tony" or something.

9 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

And Lake Bell joins the roster of Marvel/DC actors, along with Ryan Reynolds, Idris Elba, Ben Affleck, Laurence Fishburne and Josh Brolin.

Don't forget to add Sly who was in GOTG 2 and voiced King Shark.

(Pom "Mantis" Klementieff also has a (very small and uncredited) role in the new Squad movie. 

        She's one of the dancers at that club the Squad are at waiting for The Thinker to show up   (no, seriously.))

Should we include Keaton as well???

Edited August 26, 2021 by Twilight Man

[Chyromaniac]

Trying to remember- is there any significance to a SHIELD mission in Odessa from the pre-Iron Man era?  I know the big BW/Hawkeye deal was in Budapest- but that sounds familiar too.  Was that where Agent May had her “cavalry” moment from AoS?

[johntfs]

8 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

Trying to remember- is there any significance to a SHIELD mission in Odessa from the pre-Iron Man era?  I know the big BW/Hawkeye deal was in Budapest- but that sounds familiar too.  Was that where Agent May had her “cavalry” moment from AoS?

Wasn't that the one where the Winter Soldier almost killed Black Widow?

Lake Bell makes me happy because she's awesome as Poison Ivy in Harley Quinn.  Also with her showing up and James Spader having appeared as Ultron, it gives me hope that we'll get more Boston Legal peeps into the MCU.  God-dammit Disney!  Give us William Shatner as MCU Denny Crane already!

[kay1864]

On 8/25/2021 at 3:49 PM, arc said:

Yeah but also “it’s about Hope!” is a cheat to begin with. Why wouldn’t Natasha have just said “it’s Hank Pym!”????? 

 This 100%.

Of course the out of universe answer is “we don’t get the suspenseful reveal”.

22 hours ago, johntfs said:

Give us William Shatner as MCU Denny Crane already!

But, do you, really, want the, episode, to, go on, that... long?

Show of hands now, on first viewing, how many people thought for a second that wiseass Tony Stark was messing with them with a collapse on the floor?

On 8/25/2021 at 5:05 AM, Anduin said:

Tony keels over. They don't even try any kind of resuscitation on him?

Same!

Also, what the heck was that virus or whatever infecting the blood vessels in his neck?

[Zuleikha]

Are we going to see wider ripples every week so that the final episode is full insanity with no indication what changed first?

I am here for full insanity.

I thought this was fun, but I do think they need to figure out tone. There was a lot of parody humor here, which undercut the dark serial killer hunting the Avengers. I loved the humor, especially the cut from Loki staying at Midgard to his giving the speech on broadcast, but I would also have liked a genuinely creepy and suspenseful episode as well. I can't feel suspense when Coulson's fanning out over Thor's hair.

I also don't really get the invisible fight with Black Widow and Yellowjacket. He's small when we can't see him, not invisible, so how could he land the punches on her that he landed?

I can fill in pieces to get Hope to S.H.I.E.L.D. but I do miss the clarity of having one moment where a decision went one way in the MCU and a different way in What If...

[Perfect Xero]

39 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Show of hands now, on first viewing, how many people thought for a second that wiseass Tony Stark was messing with them with a collapse on the floor?

Same!

Also, what the heck was that virus or whatever infecting the blood vessels in his neck?

It was the signs of Palladium poisoning from the original Arc Reactor that was killing him in Iron Man 2, before he created Howard's synthetic Vibranium New Element to power the reactor near the end of the film.

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Wasn't that the one where the Winter Soldier almost killed Black Widow?

Lake Bell makes me happy because she's awesome as Poison Ivy in Harley Quinn.  Also with her showing up and James Spader having appeared as Ultron, it gives me hope that we'll get more Boston Legal peeps into the MCU.  God-dammit Disney!  Give us William Shatner as MCU Denny Crane already!

Now I'm trying to think of actors who've been in both Star Trek and the MCU. Michelle Yeoh is the only name that comes to mind. Both have more actors in common with Star Wars than each other.

[SnarkShark]

This seemingly contradicted the narrative of the Loki series about Loki's inevitable place in events (until he changed, that is), but I suppose the ending implies its just a different group of Avengers who will deliver his inevitable humiliation. 

On 8/25/2021 at 4:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

S01.E03: What If... The World Lost Its Mightiest Heroes?

I am not sure why the Hulk exploded, but I liked the story well enough.

That's one of the easier questions to answer with the person who turned out to be the villain. 

[paigow]

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

Wasn't that the one where the Winter Soldier almost killed Black Widow?

Give us William Shatner as MCU Denny Crane already!

Yes. She got her bikini spoiling wound 5 years prior to CAWTS while driving from Iran 

What If Denny Crane defended Peter Parker at the Mysterio muder trial???

[tv echo]

I don't enjoy watching or learning about superheroes getting killed (Tony Stark, Thor, Clint Barton, Hulk, Hope Van Dyne), so this episode was just 'meh' for me...

I, too, was surprised that the Big Bad was Hank Pym. And Loki working with and posing as Nick Fury was a nice twist - although Loki ultimately acted true to character and took control of Earth's governments.

Ending with 'hope' in the form of Captain Marvel and presumably frozen Captain America was a nice touch, considering Hank's villain arc began with Hope.

Returning talent: Samuel L. Jackson, Clark Gregg, Jeremy Renner, Mark Ruffalo, Tom Hiddleston, Jamie Alexander, Michael Douglas, and Frank Grillo.

Sound-alikes: Lake Bell (as Natasha/Black Widow), Mick Wingert (as Tony Stark/Iron Man), Mike McGill (as General Ross), Stephanie Panisello (as Betty Ross) and Alexandra Daniels (as Captain Marvel).

Edited August 26, 2021 by tv echo

[benteen]

I enjoyed this one.  One of the main points of the What if comic series is that anything goes and that means things can go terribly wrong for the good guys.  If the good guys can win no matter what happens it renders the stakes in the live action movies meaningless.  I didn't think Disney would have the guts to go dark.  I am happy they proved me wrong.

If anyone would have told me Michael Douglas would be voicing in a cartoon ten years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  Hank being the killer was something I didn't expect though he has often been unhinged in the comics.  The various deaths were inventive.  Though the episode needed more time on the Hope reveal.

I thought Lake Bell did a terrific ScarJo and her reaction to Clint's death was a highlight of the episode.  The guy voicing Ross was good too.  I think most of the replacements have delivered. Nice return to the Hulk movie.

I thought given the dark subject matter, the death of Tony was done almost in a humorous way.

This episode also makes you wonder why Fury didn't contact Carol in the first place.

[SnarkShark]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Sound-alikes

No.  Not really. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

although Loki ultimately acted true to character and took control of Earth's governments.

But no Infinity Stones or Chitauri... just Asgardian occupation force... with Sif as Number One...

[blugirlami21]

I guess I'm the only one who found Lake Bell jarring as Natasha?  She did a great job with the material but it didn't sound like Natasha.  I really enjoyed this one, probably my favorite one to date.  Lots of twists and turns, I wasn't expecting it to be Hank at all.  I was confused by the end with Loki.  Did Nick really just let Loki take over?  That part didn't make any sense.  

The other two were boring to me.  I think that may be because I don't think Peggy is that interesting and I felt like they were so over the top with how much better T'Challa was at being Starlord/Peter Quill.  It seemed kind of mean spirited.

[Starfish35]

11 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

 

I guess I'm the only one who found Lake Bell jarring as Natasha?  She did a great job with the material but it didn't sound like Natasha.

No, not the only one.  I didn’t think she sounded anything like ScarJo.  But Jeremy Renner didn’t sound like Jeremy Renner, either. 🤷🏻‍♀️  

It was an interesting idea.  I didn’t hate it, certainly.  But it wasn’t nearly as fun for me as last week’s episode.  

Points for remembering that Betty Ross exists in the MCU.   And I knew “Fury” was actually Loki almost immediately.

21 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I also don't really get the invisible fight with Black Widow and Yellowjacket. He's small when we can't see him, not invisible, so how could he land the punches on her that he landed?

Someone else might be able to explain it better, but in the Ant-Man movies, it was established that Ant-Man and Wasp have the same strength when they’re small as they would when they’re full-size.  So that was in line with how their powers were portrayed in the movies.

[ProudMary]

14 hours ago, Twilight Man said:

Don't forget to add Sly who was in GOTG 2 and voiced King Shark.

(Pom "Mantis" Klementieff also has a (very small and uncredited) role in the new Squad movie. 

        She's one of the dancers at that club the Squad are at waiting for The Thinker to show up   (no, seriously.))

Should we include Keaton as well???

Also, thanks to James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, Michael Rooker and Sean Gunn join the MCU/DC list.

Another I thought of: Djimon Hounsou (Korath) was also in Shazam.

Hell yeah, Keaton counts! Even more so since he's also in an upcoming DC film in addition to his two turns as Batman in the Tim Burton films. So, Michelle Pfeiffer too?

[johntfs]

13 hours ago, kay1864 said:

But, do you, really, want the, episode, to, go on, that... long?

With Shatner playing Denny Crane, damn right:

 

 

[Bruinsfan]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:12 AM, AnimeMania said:

How could Thor already be in an Avengers Initiative file if his "Hammer" just arrived. What did the file say "Recruit owner of man-made immovable hammer".

Yeah, randomly killing some blonde guy who was beating up Fury's guards was a weird departure from Hank's mission. What, he was hiding on the back of one of Hawkeye's arrows waiting to murder him, and decided to make him shoot some random guy with no connection to any of them on a whim? Implicating Clint in an apparent murder of Coulson (who was also on the scene) would have fit the MO better.

I did enjoy the episode overall more than the two previous, though. Hopefully the story quality continues on its upward track.

[arc]

I never actually watched Thor 1 and 2. Is he supposed to be more vulnerable without Mjolnir?

[Captain Carrot]

25 minutes ago, arc said:

I never actually watched Thor 1 and 2. Is he supposed to be more vulnerable without Mjolnir?

In the first Thor he had been made mortal by Odin as a punishment until he proved himself worthy, so he could have been killed at that point in time.

Regarding killing Thor, Pym did say that he realized Fury might want to recruit him. So, he killed him just in case.

[Zuleikha]

Just now, Captain Carrot said:

In the first Thor he had been made mortal by Odin as a punishment until he proved himself worthy, so he could have been killed at that point in time.

Regarding killing Thor, Pym did say that he realized Fury might want to recruit him. So, he killed him just in case.

That doesn't really make sense, though. He was a great brawler and strong, but he wasn't obviously something more than any other well trained agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. (or even obviously a good guy). Unless Pym thought the hair counted as a superpower.

[Captain Carrot]

A depowered Thor that could take out multiple shield agents makes as much sense as Hawkeye or Black Widow. Besides Pym wasn't actually thinking rationally.

[shrewd.buddha]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

I don't enjoy watching or learning about superheroes getting killed

Agreed.  This episode was mostly a downer, despite the attempts at humor.
What was Pym's motivation?  He was killing innocent, potential SHIELD recruits ... similar to his daughter's situation. 
Why not kill the man that he considered responsible for her death? Fury has has never shown any close attachment to .. anyone .. so it's not as if the killings would have done anything more than frustrate Fury. 

Yes, this was a big stretch from the normal "What If ..?" concept and execution in the comics. 
Also, yes: Natasha should not have wasted her dying breath with cryptic clue instead of just naming who was the killer.

Edited August 27, 2021 by shrewd.buddha