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S03.E14: Money, Booze and Lies

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While Becky tries to impress an old friend, Dan questions his position at the hardware store. 

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"Here. You can brush up on that story with the Holy Buble." LOL, I liked that line :D. 

Oof, everything with Dan and Ben. I can see both sides here to some degree, so hopefully they can work out some kind of compromise or solution or something, 'cause I like them working together. And if I were Darlene, I'd just let them sort it out themselves from here on out. I get her trying to play referee, but I think this is something they need to deal with on their own. 

Becky looked really nice in the outfit she had on for her date. Hopefully her drink was just a one-off thing. 

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Just finished the ep the Buble line was indeed great.

I can honestly imagine people thinking Darlene would have killed David at some point.

the wine coolers thing....eh...

Becky and Mark are my comfort characters for the original, and seeing Becky in the conners without Mark still makes me go back and watch Roseanne.

 

As for the one glass of wine, I really do hope Becky doesn’t end up breaking her sobriety with the taste of alcohol again. (Just hoping, I know how alcoholism works...because it’s a generational thing in my family sadly)

 

l laughed at the idea of Darlene trying to turn Mary vegan and not so succeeding at it.

Edited by RocknRollZombie
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36 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

A restaurant dining room and no masks. SIGH.

The person who brought the wine wore a mask, at least.

I was kind of surprised that Becky didn't have a scene where she wound up telling her friend the truth about what happened to her after high school and her alcoholism. And I sincerely hope she hasn't had a serious relapse again because of this. Maybe this will actually inspire her to go back to school, though? One could only hope!

And they remembered that she eloped with Mark in Minnesota and had planned on going to community college in Minneapolis! CONTINUITY, PEOPLE! WOO HOO! :D 

 

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Finally this iteration of the show remembered that Becky is supposed to be smart. I hope this leads to some self-improvement for her and not just a fall off the wagon.

Why can't Dan work on commission? That way he'd profit from growing the business while Ben gets to keep full ownership.

42 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

l laughed at the idea of Darlene trying to turn Mary vegan and not so succeeding at it.

The way the show handles Darlene's veganism doesn't square with the Conners' financial situation. Vegan meat substitutes and tofu are quite expensive, so I don't see how she buys those things while the rest of the family eats expired canned food. It would make more sense for her to buy rice and beans in bulk and grow vegetables in the backyard. I remember either last season or earlier this season I saw Ben with a container of vegan cheese that I recognized - that cheese goes for $8 for a 6-oz package in health food stores in my area. (I'm vegan too, but I avoid any and all meat substitutes and eat vegan cheese and ice cream very sparingly.)

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Jackie thinking the bible CD said Bublé was funny, as was Darlene offering to sleep with Dan's boss in order to secure him a raise.

But Dan's out of his gourd asking for a 25% partnership stake after TWO MONTHS.  It was early to ask for a raise (show you've brought in and sustained increased business over a six-month period, dude).  This is batshit.  Ben doesn't need his daddy issues to justify refusing it because it would be completely unearned.

Ben saying Darlene should have talked to him if she felt Dan deserved a raise is nowhere near as crazy, but still wrong - this is business, between Ben and Dan.  The mess when business and family blur is realistic, and a good storyline; the words Ben and Dan flung at each other were totally in character.  But Dan threatening to kick Darlene out over this pissing contest with Ben, an episode after he threatened to be forever done with his daughter if she was the one among this village of idiots who gave his girlfriend COVID?  Dan can miss me lately.

Becky refused to dissect a frog, but now I'm supposed to believe she dissected a cat back in high school?  (When the issue was raised, I took it to mean she dissects a cat after going back to school, not that it happened back then.)  And didn't they specifically say Biology?  That was indeed the class with the frog, when she was concerned flunking lab would bring her A down to a C, and Roseanne told her it was okay if she felt that strongly about it, and she was off to make sure she kept her other grades as A's to maintain her overall average.  In short, 13-year-old Becky did not dissect a cat in Biology with anyone, let alone this rival we never heard of until now.

But, it was poignant that said never-before-mentioned HS rival assumed she - who'd been his pace car - left HS for early admission to a university in MN (although I find it hard to believe word didn't get around Lanford High she'd dropped out to marry Mark Healy), graduated, and went to grad school.  And the fantasy she spun in response, especially "I have a baby whose future is secure", set the stage for her not being comfortable "admitting" she can't drink, instead just furthering the charade in one more way.

It led to another nice conversation between the sisters, and I hope it is indeed something she did under a specific set of circumstances and won't do again.

I never got around to watching the big beginning chunk of last week's episode I missed, but I liked this one, terrible frustration with Dan - and annoyance with treating arbitrary "best by" dates on food, particularly canned food, as "expiration" dates - and all.

Edited by Bastet
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5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

 

Becky refused to dissect a frog, but now I'm supposed to believe she dissected a cat back in high school?  (When the issue was raised, I took it to mean she dissects a cat after going back to school, not that it happened back then.)  And didn't they specifically say Biology?  That was indeed the class with the frog, when she was concerned flunking lab would bring her A down to a C, and Roseanne told her it was okay if she felt that strongly about it, and she was off to make sure she kept her other grades as A's to maintain her overall average.  In short, 13-year-old Becky did not dissect a cat in Biology with anyone, let alone this rival we never heard of until now.

 

This is the point I tried to make when I brought it up in spoilers I just couldn’t find the right words to describe my issues with it. But you did a great job at explaining what I couldn’t really describe. (Sometimes I’m burnt out from online classes that my thoughts don’t look good as when I think of them in my head.)

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3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Oof, everything with Dan and Ben. I can see both sides here to some degree, so hopefully they can work out some kind of compromise or solution or something, 'cause I like them working together.

I had a lot of trouble seeing Dan's side.  Even if he has helped double the business, it seems like a huge overreach to demand a 25% ownership interest when he's only been there a couple of months.  

 

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

And the fantasy she spun in response, especially "I have a baby whose future is secure", set the stage for her not being comfortable "admitting" she can't drink and furthering the charade.

While I rolled my eyes at the sudden high school rival we've never heard about, I did like Becky's storyline this episode.  You can see it going from silly to poignant as Becky recognizes what her life could have been and what it has become.      

 

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My heart broke a little for Becky during the restaurant scene as she described her "what might have been" scenario and then it broke a little more as I saw her panic turn to defeated resignation when she drank the wine. Please don't let her relapse! But her friend was great and I would like to see him again, if only to give Becky a touchstone of sanity and good judgment.

Dan and Ben are both being jerks. Dan is being extremely presumptuous and entitled with his demand for 25% of the business, but Ben should have said he needed to think about it (and probably talk to an accountant) before making any decisions, rather than jump to personal insults and calling Dan a failure. Yeesh. And I know Roseanne was the queen of the meddlers, but there's something about the way Darlene does it that really grates on my nerves. I think the difference is that Roseanne often played the long game with some element of finesse (like quietly lowering the thermostat to get Darlene to move from the cold basement back into her bedroom and make up with Becky), while Darlene just whines and nags until she gets her way.

ETA: I got a little nostalgic when they were talking about the Dr. Zhivago DVDs (loved the Blockbuster covers BTW). Dan and Roseanne reminisced about watching it more than once, and I always thought of it as "their" movie. Awww.

Edited by Cherpumple
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1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Finally this iteration of the show remembered that Becky is supposed to be smart. I hope this leads to some self-improvement for her and not just a fall off the wagon.

Why can't Dan work on commission? That way he'd profit from growing the business while Ben gets to keep full ownership.

The way the show handles Darlene's veganism doesn't square with the Conners' financial situation. Vegan meat substitutes and tofu are quite expensive, so I don't see how she buys those things while the rest of the family eats expired canned food. It would make more sense for her to buy rice and beans in bulk and grow vegetables in the backyard. I remember either last season or earlier this season I saw Ben with a container of vegan cheese that I recognized - that cheese goes for $8 for a 6-oz package in health food stores in my area. (I'm vegan too, but I avoid any and all meat substitutes and eat vegan cheese and ice cream very sparingly.)

Here in the Los Angeles  area vegan food is pretty much the  same and sometimes cheaper for the most common items and brands and virtually all market chains carry at least some items.

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I found that the episode ended abruptly.  

I agree with the posters above re: Dan.  After 2 months asking for a partnership was out of touch.  How would he feel if it was his contracting business and Ben brought him business. Would Dan give him 25%? Highly doubt it.  Dan is now thinking of his retirement at retirement age ?

I understand Becky lying to her former school friend but she should have admitted to being an alcoholic.  There are alot of successful people  who have the disease and still are successful.  I don't see how her drinking issue would have deterred from her story on her work success.

 

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Just because Dan knows how to bring in business doesn't mean he knows how to run a business. We know he's a hard worker. But he's shown he's a failure as a business owner as we seen over and over.

The nerve of him demanding 25% of the hardware store. Would he make the same demand if he worked for Home Depot or even another random small business owner?

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7 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Just because Dan knows how to bring in business doesn't mean he knows how to run a business. We know he's a hard worker. But he's shown he's a failure as a business owner as we seen over and over.

The nerve of him demanding 25% of the hardware store. Would he make the same demand if he worked for Home Depot or even another random small business owner?

We have been hit over the head since the original series and this series that Dan just is not a good man of business. Knows his stuff, can fix things on his own needing very little help or expenses on things. HOWEVER... he just can't do it in a long functioning situation. That's been proven over and over again. While Jackie and Rosanne seem to know how to run a business, they NEVER LOOK beyond the "fun part" and never invest, save or of course think if the economy might tank or their side of town isn't doing that well. 

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What happened to Beckys baby daddy?  And while i am at it Crystal and little Ed?

Were Ed ans Crystal still married when he died?

Tired of ben...would like to see DJ ...he could hsve worked with Dan.

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1 hour ago, greekmom said:

 

I understand Becky lying to her former school friend but she should have admitted to being an alcoholic.  There are a lot of successful people  who have the disease and still are successful.  I don't see how her drinking issue would have deterred from her story on her work success.

I doubt Becky would have made the distinction.  She appears to view her alcoholism as just another example of how she has failed in life. 

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I was waiting for a scene with Becky and her friend where she admits where she is in life and it turns out the friend was just as unsuccessful and that he was just pretending to be successful to impress Becky. 

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2 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

I was waiting for a scene with Becky and her friend where she admits where she is in life and it turns out the friend was just as unsuccessful and that he was just pretending to be successful to impress Becky. 

That was exactly what I was waiting for, too. It felt all the buildup was there for something like that to happen, and then it just...didn't. 

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5 hours ago, greekmom said:

I understand Becky lying to her former school friend but she should have admitted to being an alcoholic.  

Or she could have just said, "no thank you, I don't drink" and leave it at that. 

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1 hour ago, catlover79 said:

Or she could have just said, "no thank you, I don't drink" and leave it at that. 

She could have even told the truth that when she got pregnant, she decided that it was time for her to stop drinking and make a different life choice.

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I agree with the ones that It felt like a build up.

I have been kinda of wanting to see Becky have this breakdown like Jackie had. To see Becky confront her demons sort to speak, to get more of how she dealt with being an alcoholic and how the catalyst was Mark’s death. But if we do ever get that Lecy sure as hell would do a good job delivering it.

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The writing for Dan this season is just atrocious and I'm starting to think 'Run, Louise, run!'

Darlene's supposed to be smart and street-wise. Yet she makes a blunders like a teenager. But I had to laugh when she threatened to leave Harris behind. Obviously Mark did not fit into that hissy fit.

I really felt for Becky, she's doing relatively fine now but her dream scenario just laid bare how much she must be hurting. Please no relapse story - I'd rather have that dinner be a catalyst for her to strive for more.

The sisterly bonding on the couch was great.

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7 hours ago, greekmom said:

Dan is now thinking of his retirement at retirement age ?

Because he has some whack-ass savior thing going on towards Louise; they don't even share finances, yet he's talking about how if he had more money she wouldn't have to work at the restaurant.  But we've seen that Louise likes it there (pre-pandemic) and she's certainly never expressed a desire for Dan to take care of her; she wants a partner, not a provider.  Yet he's on a mission to do just that, both physically and financially.

Since the writers intend to keep them together, he better knock that off, because it's an unhealthy - and annoying - relationship dynamic. Now, I understand it - he's haunted by the fact getting her knee fixed wasn't enough to save Roseanne from her addiction to the pills that wound up killing her, and likely that he couldn't "give" her a better life than the one they had - as Dan has always taken that blue collar man's pride in providing for his family thing and blown it up.  But he needs to deal with it.

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I think a reasonable (kind of) counter to Dan's 25% request would be a vesting stake based on continued performance and business. Earn your way up to whatever they agree on over time. I agree with the premise of this request being out of line in the first place. He ran multiple businesses himself, I suppose neither of them were successful, so he's not business savvy, and it shows. 

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I thought Dan's request was a reasonable one, I just think he went about it the wrong way, demanding rather than suggesting. Dan and Ben are similar in a lot of ways but neither knows how to handle the other. 

Out of all the characters, I think it's the saddest what's become of Becky. It would be helpful to know how Mark died and when, because towards the end of Roseanne's original run, Becky was thinking about going to college. But then the show kept flip-flopping between Lecy Goransen and Sarah Chalke and it seemed like the character had a completely different persona depending on which actress was playing her. I think Mark was the thing that was really holding Becky back from being successful on her own, so the circumstances of his death could be instructive in how she wound up where she is.

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If Ben, Darlene, and Becky are paying rent to save his house, I wonder how Dan would feel if they demand to be co-owner of the the house? He'd probably be fine with Darlene and Becky, but Ben? 

I'm not surprised Ben moved out in the heat of passion. He's a grown man used to independence and now he's living in his girlfriend's dad's house with Dan's rules and temper, and now Dan wants a piece of his business. Ben couldn't even put up shelves for Becky without Dan's drama.

Edited by Snow Apple
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Dan was in the wrong.

Two months is not enough to prove himself. The shortest probationary periods for jobs last 90 days. Most are six months to a year. His desperation is understandable but all he did was make everyone's financial situation - including his own - even MORE precarious.

Darlene needs to step back. Given her own precarious emotional/mental health, she probably should sit on the sidelines for a while.

For those of you hoping Becky's slip was a one time thing...that's not (usually) how addiction works. COVID has fucked up a lot of addict/alcoholics. Let's see what happens. 

Edited by marceline
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9 minutes ago, marceline said:

Two months is not enough to prove himself. The shortest probationary periods for jobs last 90 days. Most are six months to a year. He's desperation is understandable but all he did was make everyone's financial situation - including his own - even MORE precarious.

And he said he "doubled the business" but a few big orders from his contractor friends doesn't necessarily translate to a sustained increase in business.

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18 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

As for the one glass of wine, I really do hope Becky doesn’t end up breaking her sobriety with the taste of alcohol again.

That's not how alcoholism works.  One taste - breaking the commitment - is more than enough.  She is back at square one, poor thing.

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28 minutes ago, KayVeeTeeVee said:

That's not how alcoholism works.  One taste - breaking the commitment - is more than enough.  She is back at square one, poor thing.

I know that.  some of us are just hoping it doesn’t lead to it, but it most likely will I get the feeling that ending convo between Darlene and Becky more than likely foreshadowed that route.

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"Hillbilly pirates" is possibly the greatest thing ever uttered on this show.

Oh dear, Becky. Alcoholics can't just have a glass of wine. She needs to get to a meeting immediately.

Where the heck is Beverly Rose? I don't expect them to have a baby on set during Covid, but although her existence is mentioned, her whereabouts aren't. 

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I can understand Ben not wanting to give away part of his family's business.  He should have offered Dan a promotion and higher salary.  Alsocan't help but notice::  Dan has doubled the business, but everyone is still broke?

Was there even a mask in this episode?  Maybe at the restaurant?  I can't remember, so I can't complain about it.

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The waitress was wearing a mask.

I don't care about realism when it comes to Becky's alcoholism. The show's been handwaving realism countless times before might as well do it here. I really don't want to see her relapse and I definitely don't want to see Dan freaking out about it (as was hinted at). The way he's written this season would almost certainly make that unbearable to watch.

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9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Was there even a mask in this episode?  Maybe at the restaurant?  I can't remember, so I can't complain about it.

Just the server, as I recall.

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57 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I really don't want to see her relapse and I definitely don't want to see Dan freaking out about it (as was hinted at). The way he's written this season would almost certainly make that unbearable to watch.

It's true.  I don't care for Dan's angry, bitter outbursts that they have him going off on from time to time.  

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2 hours ago, KayVeeTeeVee said:

That's not how alcoholism works.  One taste - breaking the commitment - is more than enough.  She is back at square one, poor thing.

I'm hating all the lying that happened.  That hot ex she was trying to impress and she had a glass of wine because she didn't want to admit it? I'm not even mad at that, but be honest with your past.

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3 minutes ago, nokat said:

I'm hating all the lying that happened.  That hot ex she was trying to impress and she had a glass of wine because she didn't want to admit it? I'm not even mad at that, but be honest with your past.

The guy wasn’t an ex it was an old highschool rival/friend. 
 

For the lying part I think it just another coping mechanism for Becky to think of what could have been/hide her pain. She may have never expected to lose Mark so young/soon and in the past episodes with talks between her and Dan or even from S10 with Darlene she wanted a future with him, having to  come to terms that future she wanted with him is gone along with other hopes and dreams she had over and over again even if not shown is tough. But sadly death is something that can’t be controlled. (also would have felt weird as hell if Mark was recasted) 

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2 hours ago, rmontro said:

I can understand Ben not wanting to give away part of his family's business.  He should have offered Dan a promotion and higher salary.  Alsocan't help but notice::  Dan has doubled the business, but everyone is still broke?

Darlene is now at management level so should have a higher salary too. We don't know what the monthly mortgage payment is but it should be more than manageable with three or four working adults. Yet they act like they are one step away from the streets. If nothing else, they can move in with Jackie or DJ.

The original show, and even the first season of the reboot, had struggles but they also had joy. I miss that balance.

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2 hours ago, nokat said:

I'm hating all the lying that happened.  That hot ex she was trying to impress and she had a glass of wine because she didn't want to admit it? I'm not even mad at that, but be honest with your past.

I didn't understand that at all.  If she didn't want the wine, all she had to do is say she doesn't drink anymore.  No explanation is necessary.  But for the record, I don't like the lying either.

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1 hour ago, RocknRollZombie said:

The guy wasn’t an ex it was an old highschool rival/friend. 
 

For the lying part I think it just another coping mechanism for Becky to think of what could have been/hide her pain. She may have never expected to lose Mark so young/soon and in the past episodes with talks between her and Dan or even from S10 with Darlene she wanted a future with him, having to  come to terms that future she wanted with him is gone along with other hopes and dreams she had over and over again even if not shown is tough. But sadly death is something that can’t be controlled. (also would have felt weird as hell if Mark was recasted) 

We at least got a bit of the Becky who was smart.

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3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I didn't understand that at all.  If she didn't want the wine, all she had to do is say she doesn't drink anymore.  No explanation is necessary.

Becky has been very straightforward about her alcoholism and sobriety in other situations, but this was different, and I found it the perfect set-up for her to have a glass of wine when she otherwise wouldn't have.  She was hit head-on with a reminder of how her life was "supposed to" go and how far off that track it instead progressed; she knows that, but meeting up with the person who had the closest projected trajectory and indeed fulfilled it threw it in her face.  She was totally off balance, and it got worse with every minute as she responded to each question with a bigger lie (ultimately naming her fictional grad school after an IKEA vanity, heh).

Addiction is a disease, not a failure, but it's completely understandable that she'd regard it, in that moment, as another way she'd strayed from her expected path and try to, like everything else she lied about that night, hide it.  (And not just decline to disclose she can't drink, but not even want to open the door by saying she doesn't drink.)  It was all the same to her in that moment -- she "should have" capitalized on her top of the class status to graduate college, earn a post-grad degree, settle into a career that granted autonomy and security, and now enjoy casually sharing a bottle of wine with a former classmate who'd also done the same against the odds* as they laugh about the crappy wine coolers they'd been limited to as teens.

*Like several others, I expected it to turn out he was also fronting, that neither were able to overcome the institutional barriers to the success that would have been a sure thing for others more privileged.  Maybe they'll circle back to that, but I suspect this was a one-off. 

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8 hours ago, KayVeeTeeVee said:

That's not how alcoholism works.  One taste - breaking the commitment - is more than enough.  She is back at square one, poor thing.

Does she have a sponsor to call?

 

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10 hours ago, Bastet said:

Becky has been very straightforward about her alcoholism and sobriety in other situations, but this was different, and I found it the perfect set-up for her to have a glass of wine when she otherwise wouldn't have.  She was hit head-on with a reminder of how her life was "supposed to" go and how far off that track it instead progressed; she knows that, but meeting up with the person who had the closest projected trajectory and indeed fulfilled it threw it in her face.  She was totally off balance, and it got worse with every minute as she responded to each question with a bigger lie (ultimately naming her fictional grad school after an IKEA vanity, heh).

Yeah, this was an unfortunate culmination of triggers. The lying, shame, and regret just built on each other, then suddenly there was a glass of wine in front of her. She just didn't have the coping skills at that moment.

Edited by marceline
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If David was going to have such a miniscule role in the show, why not just have him die before the reboot started? At least that way, it wouldn't ruin the classic episodes that focused so much on this future deadbeat dad.

Back to this episode: Did Ben grow up in Lanford? He and Darlene seem about the same age and the hardware store is located there, right? They didn't go to school together or anything?

Edited by Wizardpatch
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10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does she have a sponsor to call?

 

Not that I know of, and with this being a pandemic, I don't know how easy it would be for her to get to an AA meeting, either (and I can see how a virtual meeting might feel invasive, given the chance that family members might accidentally walk into the room at home--are they even doing anything like that with AA right now, it seems like the code of privacy would very easily be broken). 

Edited by UYI
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I’ve been to restaurants and sat inside and the general rule  is once you are sitting you no longer have to wear a mask.  Some ask you to wear them when the server comes but not all do.   If you get up to use the rest room you put  it back on.  But it’s kinda silly and counter productive to wear a mask sitting at a table especially while you might be getting drinks and different courses.  

I thought Becky’s story was interesting and the show was leaning into OG Becky and how she really was smart and had prospects before she chose running away with  Mark and losing him really did drop the bottom out from under her for years.

I am honestly getting tired of Ben and Darlene and have never seen the chemistry between them.  I dont think they make each other happy.  But Ben is right.   Darlene isnt responsible for the choices Dan made and keeping him afloat.   She has her own kids to think about and her own happiness which does need to come first.  It’s not her fault that Dan and Roseanne never planned for the future and put all their eggs in one basket.
 

 

Edited by Chaos Theory
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2 hours ago, UYI said:

Not that I know of, and with this being a pandemic, I don't know how easy it would be for her to get to an AA meeting, either

Is she even doing AA?  I know TV likes to present it as the only path to sobriety, but it's not.  I don't remember if, back when she first confronted her alcoholism, she talked about going to an AA meeting.

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15 hours ago, Bastet said:

she "should have" capitalized on her top of the class status to graduate college, earn a post-grad degree, settle into a career that granted autonomy and security, and now enjoy casually sharing a bottle of wine with a former classmate

It's understandable that this would be a moment of weakness for her as an alcoholic.  But from a "normal" perspective, if a person doesn't want to drink a glass of wine, there's no reason that she should have to.  I'm not alcoholic, I drank when I was younger, but I don't drink now.  And the only reason I don't drink?  It's because I don't feel like it.  That's good enough for me, and if that's not good enough for anyone else, well you know what they can do.  I admit there's sometimes a bit of peer pressure at play when I don't drink, but nothing significant.

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2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Is she even doing AA?  I know TV likes to present it as the only path to sobriety, but it's not.  I don't remember if, back when she first confronted her alcoholism, she talked about going to an AA meeting.

Fair point--and if she is, she hasn't mentioned it. 

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Didn’t Darlene just start paying rent ?   It seems like her and her kids were living there rent free for a while.  Not really understanding her acting like her living there was just to help Dan.   
 The outdated food jokes are not really funny. 

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