S12.E08: Face To Face

[humbleopinion]

39 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Well, thank goodness he hasn't worn short shorts outside to show off those thighs.  Haley would tear off running. 😱😅

Jake is just itching to break out his Jorts that he can roll up Daisy Duke style....rawr.....

He packed a pair of white elastic waisted neon triangled shorts that he didn't have an occasion to wear on the honeymoon....

What a f*cking shame...thought no one.

Edited March 5, 2021 by humbleopinion

[spunky]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL7feIMFM6q/?igshid=1h7d2n5vga2kj

Based on this post from Pastor Cal, it seems like he advised Paige to leave Chris. Producer shenanigans are probably why we didn't see that part of the conversation. 

[pdlinda]

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Erik, right? Because that is 100% why he's still indulgent of Virginia. But there will come a day.....

Having extensive professional experience dealing with alcoholics involved in the criminal justice system (now retired) I can unconditionally and unequivocally state that VA is a "ticking time bomb" of behavioral choices that can onlly lead to Erik's eventual doom (as collateral damage).

If Erik doesn't snap out of his persistent state of "delusion and denial" about the depth and urgency of this situation with VA and INSIST that she either get treatment or he will leave her (he can attend ALANON for details of what I'm proposing),  he has only himself to blame.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

I think that Eric is blinded by attraction to Virginia and trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but it is pretty clear that she is an alcoholic.  I remember the scene where Erik confronted her about her drinking while sitting at a table in their hotel room that was crowded with Whiskey bottles, 40 ounce beer cans and Gatorade- I honestly felt like I was watching a TV episode of "Intervention".  Their honeymoon was in Vegas with alcohol accessible in the hotel lobby or anywhere on the Vegas strip for that matter and yet she still chose to keep full bottles of alcohol in their hotel room- the writing is on the wall and I truly hope she gets help.  This show really needs to vet people for alcohol/substance abuse issues and if recognized, direct them towards proper counseling and medical help rather than capitalizing on addiction and value incompatibility in matchmaking to intentionally create drama for "Good TV."   

[Starlight925]

I was so impressed by the way Paige and the Ex (can't remember her name) handled the situation.

Chris expected, as we all did, for there to be fireworks.  Maury Povich level craziness.  Women brawling, screaming, yanking hair, all in efforts to fight over who would "get" Chris.

What we got instead was 2 women who shared vulnerability.  Who shared honest feelings.  Who each shared that, while each is done with Chris, they have respect for each other and their role in this difficult situation.

Which bored Chris to tears.  He expressed a desire for food.  How very deep of him.

I'd love to see a world in which Paige and the Ex remain friends, and Paige can offer support and friendship through Ex's pregnancy.

Yes, the Ex is beautiful, but I find Paige beautiful, in a different way.  Chris is an idiot.  He lost two beautiful souls.

[ShowFan]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:21 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

Ryan, that backwards cap? And indoors? Godawful!

With that adorable butt of his, I don’t notice anything else! Wear all the backward hats you want, just no baggy pants!

[Alexander Pope]

10 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Haley is a product of her friend group, bet one of them suggested the fore mentioned ill advised red lipstick.

Her large friends group act as her Greek chorus, the mirror that she holds up to compare and judge herself.

Her hair trigger reflex to immediately look for flaws to dismiss men that she meets is her pre guessing how her friends will judge them.
She susses men harshly in anticipation of her friends doing it when they meet each man and run them through the gauntlet....
Her need for their approval paralyzes any common sense and intuition in picking men.

MAFS picking her mate absolves her of yet another poor selection.

Her best match would be the widow of one of the gal pals who had an early unfortunate, tragic death...dude is already vetted, he is part of the group and she wouldn’t have to stress over him knowing his place on the group dynamics.
A Retread husband with pre approval is Haley’s dream spouse.

The Haley and Jake match is cruel stunt casting, in the vein of Neil and Sam.

There was a movie starring Julia Louis Dreyfuss and James Gandolfini called ENOUGH SAID, that was about exactly this!!! Julia passed on Gandolfini because she was worried about her friends' approval.  And then regretted it bitterly.  Of course JG was in my opinion infinitely hotter than either Jake or Neil.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Jake is just itching to break out his Jorts that he can roll up Daisy Duke style....rawr.....

He packed a pair of white elastic waisted neon triangled shorts that he didn't have an occasion to wear on the honeymoon....

What a f*cking shame...thought no one.

Didn't he say he had a pink thong?  The thought of that alone would have sent me screaming in terror. 😱

[ShowFan]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

I doubt Erik has mistreated the dog as it was not a bit afraid or skittish around him.

The pets are under a lot of pressure and stress with the filming crews around and with new humans in their life. Their behavior will be unusual and I wouldn’t read too much into it 

[Crashcourse]

7 minutes ago, ShowFan said:

With that adorable butt of his, I don’t notice anything else! Wear all the backward hats you want, just no baggy pants!

I don't even mind the cap because it hides that haircut.  Clara wants to grab that butt so bad...........

[rebel2u]

22 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

ND that he insists on keeping his shirt on during the BJ?  I'm really wanting to get to the bottom of this.

This made me laugh out loud.

Yes, I'm 12.

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, ShowFan said:

The pets are under a lot of pressure and stress with the filming crews around and with new humans in their life. Their behavior will be unusual and I wouldn’t read too much into it 

I didn't. I was responding to a poster who was concerned about possible mistreatment.

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

Didn't he say he had a pink thong?  The thought of that alone would have sent me screaming in terror. 😱

I believe he was talking about an embarrassing moment, or something like that.  He's a former body builder though, so, presumably used to thongs. 😏

[Crashcourse]

11 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I believe he was talking about an embarrassing moment, or something like that.  He's a former body builder though, so, presumably used to thongs. 😏

Oh, ok.  Bodybuilders aren't my type.   Bless their hearts. 

[Hangin Out]

15 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

If Haley's issue is really about the bad one night sex, I totally get it. Back when I was single about 1,000 years ago I dated some really great looking guys that turned out to be sooooooo bad in bed. Total turn off. We will never really know if that is the crux of her problem, though. 

If Haley had a bad night of sex, she should have kept her mouth shut.  Not nice.  We don’t know for sure tho .. do we?

[gonecrackers]

26 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Oh, ok.  Bodybuilders aren't my type.   Bless their hearts. 

Me either TBH, but then I'll assume for them the feeling would be mutual.🤭

17 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

If Haley had a bad night of sex, she should have kept her mouth shut.  Not nice.  We don’t know for sure tho .. do we?

It's all speculation since she's never said. Especially after her friends' comments, I'm sticking with what I've been saying - she regrets her drunken "Why not? I'm married to the guy" sex night because she's never 'vibed' with him. It just encouraged him so now she's all like 'shit, how do I make it stop'...

[rebel2u]

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Erik, right? Because that is 100% why he's still indulgent of Virginia. But there will come a day.....

Will there come a day when you and I can say**

that you've finally stopped drinking?

 

** Apologies to The Partridge Family and their song. "I'll Meet You Halfway."

[Hangin Out]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:15 AM, Meowwww said:

First, I think that saying Haley looks traumatized by the sex is....reaching.  I’m a rape survivor and I don’t take this lightly.  There’s been no mention of sex or rape here by Haley.  
F’ing Chris.  On his phone and done with the conversation because it wasn’t going his way.  
My hubby and I are 50.  We check in via text when we get to work etc.  Not because it’s a controlling thing, it’s an anti-worry thing.  I like to know he is safe at his destination and he likes to know the same about me.  Also, we check in with each other about personal plans.  Not asking permission, just bouncing it off each other to make sure it fits in with our plans. I think all this is just courtesy between a couple who truly operate 50/50. 

Same here.  When not home, my husband calls me at least three times a day for no reason.  It’s just what we do.  Always have.  Haley barely tolerates Jake it’s plain to see.  Why did she have sex with him?  Maybe drunk out of her mind, curiosity or what?  She’s so particular, I just can’t imagine why.  She has that fake uncomfortable forced smile when with him.  Like she can’t get away fast enough.
 

 

[Ilovepie]

14 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

It's all speculation since she's never said. Especially after her friends' comments, I'm sticking with what I've been saying - she regrets her drunken "Why not? I'm married to the guy" sex night because she's never 'vibed' with him. It just encouraged him so now she's all like 'shit, how do I make it stop'...

I think this sums up the situation completely. I don't think she's ever going to admit it was the sex, especially if she's at all a nice person. And I think Jake is pretty well aware of what happened after his "she pulled away after we were intimate" comment. I think his confusion comes from her still insisting that she's committed to this all while trying to maintain distance from him. I don't know why she wouldn't just have a private chat with him when the cameras are gone explaining how she feels. It always amazes me that people can't just agree off-camera to be polite and have a good time for the 7 weeks left if they know it's gonna be a no on decision day. If it was me, I think that's how I would play it if the person was nice but not the right one for me......

[Hangin Out]

11 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I think this sums up the situation completely. I don't think she's ever going to admit it was the sex, especially if she's at all a nice person. And I think Jake is pretty well aware of what happened after his "she pulled away after we were intimate" comment. I think his confusion comes from her still insisting that she's committed to this all while trying to maintain distance from him. I don't know why she wouldn't just have a private chat with him when the cameras are gone explaining how she feels. It always amazes me that people can't just agree off-camera to be polite and have a good time for the 7 weeks left if they know it's gonna be a no on decision day. If it was me, I think that's how I would play it if the person was nice but not the right one for me......

Feeling the way she does about commitment, why did she even go on a show like this.  Bad move.  She seems to want her space an awful lot.  Be with her girlfriends too.

[Crashcourse]

I seem to remember Jake saying something about intimacy issues in his past relationships.  Of course, I don't expect him to go into detail about it, but it does make me wonder if other women pulled away from him for some reason(s), or if he felt they were just not into him.   

[Hangin Out]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

I seem to remember Jake saying something about intimacy issues in his past relationships.  Of course, I don't expect him to go into detail about it, but it does make me wonder if other women pulled away from him for some reason(s), or if he felt they were just not into him.   

More people disconnect than connect when first they meet.  Jamie Otis didn’t like Doug when she first saw him.  She cried.  Then I read she said she was tired of looking and then settled.  She’s still not crazy about him, but wanted a family life as she never had a good family life growing up.  Pejople get married for different reasons.  Haley won’t stop looking until she finds the whole package to her liking.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Silver Bells

[Crashcourse]

1 minute ago, Silver Bells said:

More people disconnect than connect when first they meet.  

Perhaps, but I thought it strange that he'd use the term "intimacy."  Maybe that just meant "connecting" and not necessarily sex, but the only reason I brought the term up is because he did.  

[TJ N]

On 3/3/2021 at 6:29 PM, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Oh, Vincent.  Don’t you want a fun, sassy wife?  I have truly never seen one bit of rudeness or disrespect from her.  She seems like a really nice person.  

So true, I'd be in Vincent's corner if he was complaining about the baby voice she does.  He got very good advice in this episode and I hope he listens to it.  He was being extremely immature about that whole situation. 

[TJ N]

On 3/3/2021 at 6:49 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

"Every hour or two," Erik? Um, nope. Wouldn't  work for me, Bud.

But then, Virginia just came home "hungover" and asking where the beer is.

I think Erik is going to cut bait when the day comes, with some sadness but with relief. 

I'd be very shocked if there isn't a major blowup between these two.  She likes the drama and he's either controlling or a know it all and maybe he's both.

[TJ N]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:33 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

Agree about the checking in.

However, for me it's not so much that Virginia  has platonic  male friends; it's that she thinks it's A-OK for a MARRIED woman to get pass-out drunk with them enough to SLEEP OVER at their places!  

Although I do think he's controlling, she has said nothing to give him confidence or trust in her decision making and really her thoughts on issues.  She's extremely immature and also naive about pretty much everything I've seen on this show.  I may not agree with how Erik is handling this situation but I can appreciate where he's coming from.

[TJ N]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:18 AM, Ilovepie said:

No comments on Chris and Paige because I am now just fast forwarding through them. Enough already. And f$ck this show for this.

 

All the friends tonight were on fire. My favs were Vincent’s friend and Haley’s friend. More wisdom from those two people in five minutes of screen time than the experts combined all season. 

 

 

 

 

I'm done commenting on them as well.  The advice by friends was spot on in this episode.  Seems like the friends knew the weaknesses of their friends and like a true friend called them out on it.

[scruffy73]

8 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Heh, I think the fact that Jake likes to wear those "message" shirts makes him look like he's trying too hard, especially a guy his age.  I'd be embarrassed to be seen with him always wearing those shirts.

I love graphic/messsage tees. My friends and family get a kick out of them. I’ve been stopped by strangers to take pictures of my shirts. I wouldn’t be embarrassed at all.

I’m a 48 (in a couple hours) year old woman.

[Devvie]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

I wonder if the Chris has to pretend he has a ton of money because he is the least attractive one in their friend group? He is obviously insecure about himself on some level.

To borrow a quote from a movie - Chris "your low self esteem is just good common sense". I think the Mercedes and Paige debate is like the Jennifer and Angelina debate.  Both Mercedes and Paige are attractive.  Chris, however, is not very attractive (of course his personality taints my opinion).   He has that look of Sam the Eagle (the muppet).  Furrowed brow , bushy eyebrows, etc.  He's also broke.  Irritable.  Narcissistic.  Delusional. At the very least emotionally abusive.  And, from that van ride and the group dinner, possibly violent - was he going to take a swing at Erik before Vincent got him outside? He will be a terrible father. Why would any smart woman want to have a child with him?  Maybe he treats these women badly in a "wouldn't want to join a club that would have someone like me as a member" way?

I've gone back and forth on Haley and Jake and finally decided two things can be true at one time:  they are both cringeworthy. 

[rebel2u]

6 minutes ago, scruffy73 said:

I love graphic/messsage tees. My friends and family get a kick out of them. I’ve been stopped by strangers to take pictures of my shirts. I wouldn’t be embarrassed at all.

I’m a 48 (in a couple hours) year old woman.

Happy Birthday!

I love graphic tees, too.  I have one that reads

"Let's eat Grandma.

Let's eat, Grandma.

Punctuation saves lives."

I had a lady in Wal-Mart want to take my picture and several people have asked where I got it. 

[kitkat68]

I think Chris is making this up with his ex so he can get out of the marriage, because he's not attracted to Paige. 

From the first episode, i knew he wasn't anywhere ready for marriage.

 

[havarti]

Wow, has there ever been a more polarizing MAFS individual among viewers than Jake? Granted, I’ve only been watching (closely) since season 8 but I’ve seen my share of universally reviled participants as well as (generally) well-liked participants. But I’m continually fascinated by the wildly opposing opinions of Jake each week! Either he’s “creepy,” “looks like he smells like onions,” possibly “bad in bed, and “willfully obtuse,” OR he’s “hot,” “worth the wait,” “has a great sense of humor,” and “emotionally stable.” It will be interesting to see if the schism continues!

Edited March 9, 2021 by havarti

[Airy2021]

7 minutes ago, havarti said:

Wow, has there ever been a more polarizing MAFS individual among viewers than Jake? Granted, I’ve only been watching (closely) since season 8 but I’ve seen my share of universally reviled participants as well as (generally) well-liked participants. But I’m continually fascinated by the wildly opposing opinions of Jake each week! Either he’s “creepy,” “looks and smells like onions,” possibly “bad in bed, and “willfully obtuse,” OR he’s “hot,” “worth the wait,” “has a great sense of humor,” and “emotionally stable.” It will be interesting to see if the schism continues!

I can’t understand anyone who likes him. He’s such a weird dude. His personality is so bland and off putting. He never looks people in the eye when he talks to them too. He always does a weird side eye gaze at them. It’s so strange!! He seems socially stunted. 

[Myrtle Urkele]

On 3/4/2021 at 5:35 PM, Racj82 said:

Nope it's just people have opinions. I happen to feel differently than you. Doesn't say anything about me. 

I never said you.

Chris really worked hard try to find multiple ways to communicate that he thinks Paige is ugly. She implied as much in the sit down with the ex-fiance. He was so pouty when he realized that they weren't going to cat fight over him, lol.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, havarti said:

Wow, has there ever been a more polarizing MAFS individual among viewers than Jake? Granted, I’ve only been watching (closely) since season 8 but I’ve seen my share of universally reviled participants as well as (generally) well-liked participants. But I’m continually fascinated by the wildly opposing opinions of Jake each week! Either he’s “creepy,” “looks and smells like onions,” possibly “bad in bed, and “willfully obtuse,” OR he’s “hot,” “worth the wait,” “has a great sense of humor,” and “emotionally stable.” It will be interesting to see if the schism continues!

Bret from last season was pretty polarizing with people either loving or hating him.

[Retired at last]

@rebel2u, I used to have a sign with that saying in my office. I love it!!!

[Lindz]

VINCENT'S GOT ISSUES!! He needs help with the basics! Lordy! It's stupid to CHOOSE to feel disrespected by your STRANGER spouse!! He doesn't feel like he should have to point out EVERY single infraction??? Can't stand these types: blows it out of proportion, thinks partner should just "know," too lazy to address & correct it. How about pointing out THE FIRST ONE?!! ONLY 11 DAYS she's been in his life!! OMG!! SO STUPID!! It's for their benefit!! How does shutting down help?!! UGGHHHH!!! 😣 Turn down the sensitivity & give her the benefit of believing she's not trying to say or do anything disrespectful or hurtful. DUH! Glad he eventually wised up & returned "home." He could use space to gather himself, but spending the night away from home is unreasonable. Threatening to leave is petty, immature bs tho. Still got that dating mindset. His friend is smarter than him! 😂 She could've actually called him a moron or freaked out, but she laughed it off & helped clean it up. He's too sensitive & insecure & has unreasonable expectations of her he hasn't even told her. Ridiculous! COME ON!

Edited March 6, 2021 by Lindz

[LakeGal]

Last night Lakeguy was complaining about Chris.  I had no idea he was talking about MAFS and asked who he was talking about.  He seemed quite upset about this guy.  Then he explained who he was talking about and I laughed.  Days later and Chris is still annoying my husband.  

[Racj82]

35 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Last night Lakeguy was complaining about Chris.  I had no idea he was talking about MAFS and asked who he was talking about.  He seemed quite upset about this guy.  Then he explained who he was talking about and I laughed.  Days later and Chris is still annoying my husband.  

He has that affect on people.

[Lindz]

On 3/3/2021 at 5:18 PM, Empress1 said:

This fool is on his phone while people are talking to him. I hate Chris so much, y’all.

 

On 3/3/2021 at 5:53 PM, spunky said:

Chris' pastor is 100% correct,  he's completely selfish.

On 3/3/2021 at 5:16 PM, Empress1 said:

The looks they’re giving Chris are hilarious.

Good on them for keeping it real & not agreeing with his bs. I can't believe they just let him be a disrespectful CHILD when he got on his phone. They should've bitch slapped him!! 😂

[Lindz]

Ohhhh Hypochris strikes again!! Idk how he doesn't choke on his bs. Honest & respectful? By saying she's #1 & mumbling over her? Trying not to lead her on by breadcrumbing her at every turn? GTFOH!!!!😂😂😂😂 & it looks like they're gunna roll out this bs trainwreck next week! MAKE IT STOP!! 😣😣

[humbleopinion]

2 hours ago, LakeGal said:

Last night Lakeguy was complaining about Chris.  I had no idea he was talking about MAFS and asked who he was talking about.  He seemed quite upset about this guy.  Then he explained who he was talking about and I laughed.  Days later and Chris is still annoying my husband.  

Time for Lakeguy to have his own account...

I’ll scoot over, he can sit next to me...

[Lindz]

Erik's still tryna be controlling? She doesn't need to ask his permission to go anywhere so he should stop telling people she didn't ask if "it's cool" she go out. She can have plans that don't include him, that's a healthy part of a relationship. She can ask his thoughts & if he's comfortable with certain plans & COMPROMISE. There. Just solved it! 😂 They have different ideas of marriage & should figure out how theirs will be.

[Lindz]

On 3/3/2021 at 10:17 PM, bichonblitz said:

Dude needs therapy. Deep, intensive therapy. 

I wonder if there's a de-narcissism program and a de-domestic abuse program. Fix it Jesus! 😂

[Hangin Out]

15 hours ago, TJ N said:

So true, I'd be in Vincent's corner if he was complaining about the baby voice she does.  He got very good advice in this episode and I hope he listens to it.  He was being extremely immature about that whole situation. 

Omg .. these people crack me up.  Do they think marriage is a picnic everyday?  They know didly squat what’s ahead if they stay together.  There are days you want to hit the road or kill your spouse.  Then there are days when you love them to death.  Marriage is for better or worse.  They have no idea yet.  Then there’s in laws, babies, money problems, etc, etc.   But love prevails, if you marry for love.  They all are nitpicking about stupid things.  Wait a few more years, then the test will start .. if they make it that far.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Silver Bells
She

[Hangin Out]

38 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Erik's still tryna be controlling? She doesn't need to ask his permission to go anywhere so he should stop telling people she didn't ask if "it's cool" she go out. She can have plans that don't include him, that's a healthy part of a relationship. She can ask his thoughts & if he's comfortable with certain plans & COMPROMISE. There. Just solved it! 😂 They have different ideas of marriage & should figure out how theirs will be.  Those three experts are all full of shit.  They don’t know what they are talking about.

 

Just now, Silver Bells said:

 

Oops .. mistake.  Sorry

[Lindz]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:00 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

Clara the Flight Attendant needs to cool her Lockheed-Martin jets and remember where her prior behavior got her.  

Seems she leads with sex. It definitely isn't love. Idk about those types. Seeking emotional connection or love through sex when guys definitely don't work that way. Hmmm. Maybe she builds attraction through sex or it's just a release? I have no idea. Totally can't relate, totally unfamiliar. 😅 My best guess is she isn't always "falling in love," it's more like she's always jumping on d*cks 😅 & Ryan doesn't want her falling in love with his & confusing her & maybe he wants their 1st time to be meaningful, at least. THEY SHOULD FIGURE IT OUT!! MY GOSH!! All this uncertainty is so stupid. They're married, they should come to an understanding.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Lindz

[Lindz]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:22 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Clara and Ryan appear to be at a pastry place, and she disses him by saying she feels like she's at a motivational seminar -- free donuts if you listen to the self-help talk.

I suspect they went to church & Clara trashes it, putting her foot in her mouth & making Ryan like her less.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Lindz

[Linarina]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:05 PM, rebel2u said:

And stupid. Not intellectually but stupid to try and give advice and reason with a narcissist like Chris.  Why are they giving any credence to Chris at all?  He comes in, says his ex-fiancée is pregnant and then just sits there, waiting to be the center of attention as they talk all about Chris.  When he says he wants to divorce Paige and they say that he should stay with his wife, this is not what he wants to hear and he's done and ready to leave.  Surely by now  these men know what a narcissist he is. The pastor says Chris's child will know him and he doesn't need to stay with his ex-fiancée to raise his child.  Normally I would think it best for the child to be in a 2 parent home but I would hate to foist Chris on an innocent child full time. No matter--he'll probably raise the child in his own image whether he's in the home or not---which is just what the world needs--another Chris.

Regarding Chris's pastor...

Spoiler

I read weeks ago that that's an actor, not his real pastor.  His real pastor couldn't get a covid test or come from Chicago or something like that.  So that puts that whole conversation in a different light.  Here's some dude you don't know laying into you, calling you selfish, etc.  I hate Chris, but that explains his "I'm done with this conversation."  That actor doesn't know shit about him.  (Although he nailed it, since Chris's narcissism can be spotted a mile away.)

 

[answerphone]

I have to fast forward when Chris is on screen. 🤢
He uses his religion to justify his disgusting thoughts and actions. 

[Lindz]

LOLOL!! Vincent saying Ryan holding back could cause problems... how about he get a mirror?? He just had an issue cuz he held back his problem & shut down!! 😂😂