S02.E03: Zoey’s Extraordinary Dreams

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Zoey is haunted by bad dreams that start to affect her personal life. Jenna helps Maggie find her creative spark again.

Airing Tuesday, January 19, 2021.

 

[shipmate]

I felt for Zoey. All of her stress and the dramatic changes in her life (father, job, relationship) in such a compressed time frame are manifesting themselves. As a fan, I hate that she and Max are on hold, but it's probably better for her and I hope they find their way back to each other.

[phalange]

The ending was sad, even though it was understandable, and Max showed he really cares about Zoey by recognizing that she needs more time to heal before jumping into a relationship. His “Say Something” performance was heartbreaking and amazing.

I also think Jane Levy was great in her performances of Zoey’s dreams. Zoey really needs to talk to a professional, because she can’t keep going on no sleep and too much caffeine. It’s good that she talks to Simon as someone who understands (and I laughed at his “five more nightmares and you get a jacket” joke) but it might be best to get some outside help. 

I’m really liking Jenna and her helping Maggie find her creative spark. Instead of staying with David and Emily, temporarily moving in with Maggie would probably be the best thing for everyone. Maggie wouldn’t be in the house alone and David and Emily can have their space back. 

Of course the Brogrammers would compare themselves to Little Orphan Annie. They know Zoey is grieving and also has a lot of work, and she’s asking them to just be responsible for five minutes. Tobin is being deliberately annoying with how he’s treating the women and Leif needs to do his job and reign them in so Zoey doesn’t have to do that too. Zoey doesn’t owe them an apology, IMO. 

[funnygirl]

I would've preferred tptb didn't rush Zoey and Max together just to break them up after two episodes. Their connection deserves more than that. And it's going to be highly annoying when - not if - Zoey hooks up with Simon. Talk about getting to have your cake and eat it too… 

Edited January 20, 2021 by funnygirl

[Retired at last]

I was so disappointed tonight. I really like Max and I didn't like Zoey. Also, there is too much Mary Steenbergen and too much of her "singing." I know people are trying to get back to a new normal, but there is too much that isn't working for me. Max and Zoey not working; Max and Mo not working; Zoey being a manager not working; Emily's obnoxious SIL not working for me. This was such a wonderful show last year and the second seasons can often not live up to the first, but I am trying to stay hopeful that we will get back to some joy somewhere.

[chaifan]

First thought... people have been saying since Ep. 1 that Max looks different this season.  I agree.  This episode it hit me - he looks a lot like Zachary Levi.  Now on to the episode...

Not my favorite episode.  Max's Say Something was amazing.  Zoey's dream sequences were pretty good.  But every other number was just meh to me.  Which is totally unusual for this show for me.  I really didn't like Hard Knock Life because thinking that these guys really think they're treated as bad as orphans during the Great Depression makes every single one of them an absolute ass.  I can handle Tobin as the prototypical bro, but not all of them. 

If Zoey and Simon hook up and then Zoey and Max get all into the "we were on a break!" territory I will scream.  Please writers, do not do that. 

I like that they're giving Jenna something to do, but I wish they had brought back Howie instead and figured out a way to make him Maggie's new roommate.  Have them run into each other in the grocery store, Howie's house just burned down and Maggie invites him to stay... I don't know... they could have figured something out...  They could have a nice heirloom pot cultivating business going on in the greenhouse... 

Where the hell are Max and Mo getting the money for this not a restaurant restaurant?  I can only imagine what a liquor license costs in San Francisco, let alone the rent and renovations of that building. 

[nilyank]

So Zoey reassigned certain tasks to her team but I thought it would actually have something to do with running that floor/department not just figuring out the bar or setting up the softball team. You know something about the tech company that they all work at.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, shipmate said:

I felt for Zoey. All of her stress and the dramatic changes in her life (father, job, relationship) in such a compressed time frame are manifesting themselves.

I was *here* with Zoey. I still have "shake yourself awake" nightmares after losing my father, and I was laid off very shortly (less than a month) before losing him. I had my first ever anxiety attack not long ago - between the job loss, grief, and the pandemic, I think everything just came crashing down. Simon was right that you can't fast-track grief. You just have to feel it. I've gotten similar advice. I cry at inopportune times (I had to do an estate errand last week and started crying, for example) and people will say "You should be crying. It's sad!"

I also stayed with my mother for a month after losing my father (my parents were divorced - it was more for me than her), and that meant sleeping in a twin bed. I laughed when Max was like "might be nice to get back to your adult-sized bed" because while I was glad to stay with my mother, I REALLY missed my bed.

The stuff Zoey outsourced to her team really is stuff she shouldn't be doing. Monitoring the suggestion inbox is not something a senior manager needs to spend time on.

57 minutes ago, phalange said:

Max showed he really cares about Zoey

Something about the way he asked if her nightmares had gone on for long was so sweet and tender. I really need this pandemic to end so I can feel more comfortable dating again. "Say Something" was beautiful and he sounded great.

"All I'm experiencing is crackhouse!" I love Mo.

Simon is so hot.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Empress1

[springbarb]

I totally understand that Zoey is overwhelmed; someone really needs to tell her to talk to a professional, because she is (understandably) floundering. I was so happy that she finally talked to Max and I'm glad the show didn't try to make him be the bad guy in that conversation in the kitchen. It has to be so hard knowing your girlfriend has this insight into you while you have no idea what she's feeling.

It was noticeable that none of the women participated in "Hard Knock Life"; Tobin is beyond annoying and they shouldn't whine after playing softball inside the office. Good Lord. Zoey was right to outsource all those assignments, though "Executive Director of the Fourth Floor" isn't an actual title. What all is ON the fourth floor???

Glad to see Emily find some solid ground; agree that Jenna should move into the house with her. There's certainly enough room.

[Empress1]

8 minutes ago, springbarb said:

There's certainly enough room.

Every time they show that house I think "That house is huge and in the SF Bay area. It's got to be worth like $4M." I might think about downsizing if I were Maggie - maybe not this second while things are so raw, but at some point. That's a ton of space for one person.

[AmeliaBedelia]

I stumbled across this show on Peacock over the weekend and watched all 14 available episodes. My dad has lung cancer and I was a crying mess, but I really loved the flow and emotion of season one. Tonight's episode was the first one I've watched live, and I was a bit underwhelmed. There wasn't enough Mo and the work scenes are missing something without Lauren Graham. I would also only rewatch 2 numbers, Hard Knock Life and Say Something, whereas I would rewind all the numbers in previous episodes just for the choreography. 

In terms of Max and Simon, I like them both but I don't want them running after Zoey all the time. It felt weird to break up Zoey/Max two seconds after they got together. And, I don't really like that Zoey and Simon only seem to relate when they are grieving. I'm  wondering what else they have in common and will their connection lessen as their grief becomes less acute. 

Anyways, I'm happy to have a new show to look forward to even if this episode wasn't the best. 

[KaveDweller]

52 minutes ago, springbarb said:

It was noticeable that none of the women participated in "Hard Knock Life"; Tobin is beyond annoying and they shouldn't whine after playing softball inside the office. Good Lord. Zoey was right to outsource all those assignments, though "Executive Director of the Fourth Floor" isn't an actual title. What all is ON the fourth floor???

The company is very strangely organized. Each floor has people from different functional areas, and then an executive director over all of them? It would make more sense if there was a director of all the programmers (across all floors) and a director of all marketing people (across all floors), etc. Maybe that is how tech companies work, but it seems weird and inefficient.

I noticed none of the women participated in the song too. I'm hoping they eventually get something to do though.

Was this the first time we didn't see a song that Zoey supposedly heard? Max noticed her reacting and guessed she heard him sing, but we didn't see it at all. 

[funnygirl]

39 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Was this the first time we didn't see a song that Zoey supposedly heard? Max noticed her reacting and guessed she heard him sing, but we didn't see it at all. 

I don't recall any other time/episode where Zoey hears a heart song that we don't see… and it seems to have happened twice tonight, right? First in the kitchen, but then at the very end when they're staring at each other, Zoey says "I know".  I know what?! 

[hnygrl]

Zoey’s been trying to out run/ignore her grief.  Like healing would mean her dad is really gone..she breaks my heart...

Both Max and Simon need to friend-zone themselves for the duration. That child aint in no position to be dating or making relationship decisions. She’s still neck deep in grief. I too remember the nightmares after my mom died, waking up in tears because, yes,she’s really dead. For realz.  Right now, I’m team Zoey.  No Max, no Simon. Just...her learn to live in a world where her dad is dead.  This episode hit different.  Brough up a lot of feelings I thought were dealt with...excuse me while I go watch funny videos and not-cry...

Edited January 20, 2021 by hnygrl

[Trini]

Well, guess we know why they rushed to get the sex scene last week. It's good that they're not glossing over Zoey's grief, and it makes sense that it would affect her relationships, etc., but I was not expecting a (soft?) breakup so soon. 😢

I'm pretty sure they're committed to Zoey/Max so I don't think they are going to have Zoey and Simon get together like that. I appreciate that they can still be friends, and work colleagues -- I liked that he was able to give non-grief related advice also.

Still not liking how they are writing Leif so far this season. He's not even my favorite character, but it's odd to me that they're making him seem spineless when he wasn't that way before.

This is the first time the show has done a repeated song - I think: Zoey's dreams of being trapped. Those sequences were really good.

I've never been invested in Zoey's Brother and Sister-in-law, but I did like that the sister (Jenna?) helped Zoey's mom get out of her funk, and be able to continue her work without Mitch.

13 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Was this the first time we didn't see a song that Zoey supposedly heard? Max noticed her reacting and guessed she heard him sing, but we didn't see it at all. 

Yeah; I really wanted to know what song he sang! But I think they did that to show how Zoey's musical interludes look to other people. It makes sense that at some point her power was going to cause a fight, but it was still sad to see. I guess Zoey should get some outside help, but I don't know if she really can because she'd have to explain her powers.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Trini
Lord, my typos!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had to laugh at Max's suggestion that they stop watching documentaries about serial killers before bed to prevent bad dreams. I had to issue myself a similar ban so I can relate.

Even though Mary Steenburgen is not the strongest singer or dancer on this show, her song had me in tears. I am really glad that they are showing the fallout from Mitch's death and how complex it can be for each person to deal with. As terrible as I feel for Maggie, Zoey is the one who gets the most sympathy from me. Like everyone else, she is grieving but she also has the added burden of feeling responsible for her mom and not wanting to abandon her. I appreciated that Max was trying to push Zoey to go back to her apartment for the sake of her own health.

I also loved Simon teaching her about the magic of delegation. Once you're a manager, you have to manage, not just do everything yourself. I thought that she and Leif were making some progress with that, but I guess she needed the minder. Unfortunately, she chose some of the wrong people for these tasks that she delegated. Maybe she should have paired people up to work on these projects. If she had paired Tobin with anyone with half a brain, they wouldn't have ended up with an obscene looking logo on their jerseys.

The thing that sucks most about being a boss is when you tell people to do something and they don't which means you then have to reprimand them. It's like babysitting sometimes. You have to know who needs supervision so that you can head off problems like this before they happen. I really do give her credit for trying to delegate. And you'd think that you wouldn't have to tell adults not to throw softballs inside the office (let alone an office filled with glass).

I am so glad that I do not have to deal with clients because "do something special" is not the kind of feedback I want when you don't like my suggestions. Tell me what you want! Do you want topiaries shaped like animals? A labyrinth? Lots of colorful flowers? Really tall trees? BE SPECIFIC. Saying you want something special isn't really helpful, Roger.

Great job casting Jenna - her very brief song and dance were great! I'm glad she will be collaborating with Maggie on her new project. I know it's just a convenient way to keep her around without having her stuck in the annoying sister who won't leave plot, but I'll take it. I'll be interested to see if Zoey begins showing blatant signs of being jealous of Jenna spending time with Maggie or Zoey feeling like she's been replaced as her mom's BFF/confidante. She already looked slightly disappointed in this episode when Maggie told her that Jenna got her motivated and back out there.

I loved that when Zoey told Simon she was "hanging out" with Max a lot and she asked if he was okay with it, Simon said he was okay with anything that made her happy. So far Simon is the only one who has been supportive and non-demanding with Zoey since Mitch died.

I like Mo but screaming at his boyfriend while Max was looking at a new potential rental space was really too much.

The Brogrammers singing the Hard Knock Life was annoying but not surprising. Of course they see being told that they have to include GIRLS on the softball team and that they can't have phallic jerseys as some sort of some kind of tragic oppression. They need to grow up. There's no way HR would be okay with them excluding women from the team or with Tobin's stupid logo, so all they were doing was forcing Zoey into telling them what they already know, which is that they can't do this kind of shit in 2021. In other words, they're behaving like spoiled brats and making Zoey say no to them so that they can pout about how mean she is.

But realistically, Zoey shouldn't have to tell them that. Yes, Tobin made a childish and tacky decision with that logo, but no one else called him on it? They all truly have no concept of what is socially acceptable? Not a single coworker thought to say, "Hey, Tobin, that really isn't appropriate"? As Tobin's manager, Leif should have said something but I'm guessing he still doesn't want to rock the boat and have his BFF get mad at him.

I felt bad that Max was frustrated with Zoey because she was not being totally open with him. But at the same time, her dad just died. She doesn't HAVE to tell you about every horrible moment that she feels awful. Not everyone wants to talk about their feelings. Not everyone grieves that way. I get that it's hard for Max to see that she's not okay and that he just wants to help, but sometimes the best way to help someone who is hurting is to give them some space. If she wants to talk about it, she will. She doesn't need someone demanding that she tell him about how she still feels miserable.

But once again, Max made this all about HIM. When she finally started talking about some of this at the end of the episode and she said she started to wonder if something else was causing the bad dreams, he said, "Something like ME?" JFC, dude, she just lost a parent. NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU. Did you ever consider the possibility that she is having bad dreams and not sleeping because she's still mourning the death of her father? I'm glad he FINALLY realized this at the end of their conversation but I was so annoyed with him by that point because it felt like he was being willfully ignorant.

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Every time they show that house I think "That house is huge and in the SF Bay area. It's got to be worth like $4M." I might think about downsizing if I were Maggie - maybe not this second while things are so raw, but at some point. That's a ton of space for one person.

I don't think Maggie is ready to leave the house that she shared with Mitch. My mom couldn't even go through my dad's clothes for months. It has been almost six years since he died (the anniversary is in about six weeks) and she still hasn't gotten rid of all his things. The other thing is that Maggie has lived there for decades so that neighborhood is her home. She knows where to shop, who the friendly neighbors are, etc. Moving somewhere else would mean giving up everything familiar. And that's on top of the stress of packing up the entire house, staging it, hoping it will sell, and finding a new place to live.

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The company is very strangely organized. Each floor has people from different functional areas, and then an executive director over all of them? It would make more sense if there was a director of all the programmers (across all floors) and a director of all marketing people (across all floors), etc. Maybe that is how tech companies work, but it seems weird and inefficient.

Someone I knew worked at an architecture firm and they had their company split into studios on different floors. The studio that worked on hospitals had their own marketing people and they all had their desks and offices in one part of the office. The studio that worked on museums had their own marketing people and they had their offices and desks in a separate part of the office. For that reason, it never bothered me that Zoey's floor was separate from whatever it is they do on the fifth floor.

[Empress1]

36 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't think Maggie is ready to leave the house that she shared with Mitch. My mom couldn't even go through my dad's clothes for months. It has been almost six years since he died (the anniversary is in about six weeks) and she still hasn't gotten rid of all his things. The other thing is that Maggie has lived there for decades so that neighborhood is her home. She knows where to shop, who the friendly neighbors are, etc. Moving somewhere else would mean giving up everything familiar. And that's on top of the stress of packing up the entire house, staging it, hoping it will sell, and finding a new place to live.

A family friend told me that when her husband died, she put all his clothes in the spare bathroom and did not go in for two years. Her husband's death was expected (he was elderly and had dementia - my family friend is in her late 80s), and she said she thought she was prepared but she wasn't. She is a retired nurse so she's seen a lot of death and she was initially very "he had a good long life, death is a part of life" approach, but when she began to grieve it hit her differently.

I can certainly understand Maggie not going anywhere, and that seems to be the family gathering place but that house is huge.

39 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Someone I knew worked at an architecture firm and they had their company split into studios on different floors. The studio that worked on hospitals had their own marketing people and they all had their desks and offices in one part of the office. The studio that worked on museums had their own marketing people and they had their offices and desks in a separate part of the office. For that reason, it never bothered me that Zoey's floor was separate from whatever it is they do on the fifth floor.

I used to work at a company that had six business unit and each business unit functioned pretty independently. I was in marketing and each business unit had its own marketing team. (The company later got a new marketing VP who re-organized everything and centralized it by function, so there was a market research team that worked across all business units, a PR team that worked across all units, a digital marketing team, etc.) If Zoey's company is organized into ... people who work on the watch (I think that's the only thing I've heard them talk about!) and people who work on ... other stuff, I can see it. 

44 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I am so glad that I do not have to deal with clients because "do something special" is not the kind of feedback I want when you don't like my suggestions.

 An ex of mine is an ad guy and he would tell stories about clients being like "I don't like it" with no further comment. They'd have to ask a lot of follow-up questions. I did a brief stint on the agency side of things and it can be very frustrating (although IMO a micro-managing client is worse).

6 hours ago, Trini said:

Yeah; I really wanted to know what song he sang! But I think they did that to show how Zoey's musical interludes look to other people.

It reminded me of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - they eventually showed us what the musical interludes looked like on the outside and it was Rebecca staring exaggeratedly weirdly into space.

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

I pretty sure they're committed to Zoey/Max so I don't think they are going to have Zoey and Simon get together like that. I appreciate that they can still be friends, and work colleagues -- I liked that he was able to give non-grief related advice also.

It's weird, because I feel like there's still something with the Simon/Zoey stuff, but maybe it's more one sided at this point. Simon going to wipe away her tears and getting a bit TOO close for someone who's just a friend felt weird to watch, and a bit icky. It just felt somewhat romantically charged on Simon's end. And I don't think it was an accident that it seemed that way. 

I'm not impressed with how they made not just Tobin but Leif act so douchey. They were douchey last season, but not THIS douchey. Especially not Tobin, who is seeming more disrespectful around women than last season. I am hoping they stop this very, very soon because I don't want Zoey to have to deal with a bunch of guys who don't show much respect like they are doing to her. I love Hard Knock Life, but the meaning behind the song because Zoey told them to stop playing around was very immature. I guess Leif is still struggling with being a manager, and he seems to want to have it both ways so if they ARE heading toward some sort of fork with him (manager or bro), then it could be interesting. But I hope they decide that soon.

Say Something was a lovely song, BUT I wasn't loving the context of that particular song. It reminded me to season 1, when I was perpetually annoyed with Max, who seemed to push Zoey to be on his level whenever she wasn't. The issue with Max had been that he felt entitled to her feelings whenever she wasn't there yet and got pissy about it. Plus, he knows she can't control her powers and I hate him guilt tripping her about it every time she doesn't readily share every little thought. Yes, she needs to communicate more. Yes, I get his frustration. But no, he shouldn't be acting the way that he does. 

That being said, I'm totally fine with a soft breakup/pause on their relationship. Zoey DID rush into a relationship way too quickly after her father's death. She needs to ease into it. And I did appreciate Max's understanding about that.

The restaurant plot seems to be heading in a good direction. I can't wait to see Mo and Max butt heads more.

Maggie's plot with Jenna was good. I can't wait to see Maggie's work side more, because we didn't see a whole lot of it in season 1. Plus, it'll give her a plot outside of the home.

 

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, chaifan said:

Where the hell are Max and Mo getting the money for this not a restaurant restaurant? 

Max was likely making a good salary at SPQPoint (or whatever it's called, and seems responsible enough to have some savings. Mo, though? I haven't the faintest idea. Max was so right to get a contract between them.

12 hours ago, nilyank said:

So Zoey reassigned certain tasks to her team but I thought it would actually have something to do with running that floor/department not just figuring out the bar or setting up the softball team. You know something about the tech company that they all work at.

She should have dumped that stuff on Leif and had him assign it. That's part of his job.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There's no way HR would be okay with them excluding women from the team or with Tobin's stupid logo

You'd think, but there are a lot of very ineffective/terrible HR departments out there. And tech companies especially seem to like to talk the talk without walking the walk.

35 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I can certainly understand Maggie not going anywhere, and that seems to be the family gathering place but that house is huge.

Conventional advice is to not make any life-changing decisions for at least a year, if at all possible.

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Tobin, who is seeming more disrespectful around women than last season.

Now he has to deal with icky girls in his sacred male workspace. It's so dumb, but probably accurate. He feels threatened by people who might be as good or even better at coding that he is, and if they're—gasp!—women? He doesn't know how to handle it except by being a douche.

9 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I can't wait to see Maggie's work side more, because we didn't see a whole lot of it in season 1. Plus, it'll give her a plot outside of the home.

I really hope they don't throw her into a relationship with Rob Stewart just yet. He knows her husband recently died.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

25 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Zoey DID rush into a relationship way too quickly after her father's death. She needs to ease into it.

When they started making out the first time this season, she even said, "This is a nice distraction," so he should have known that she wasn't ready for all the relationship stuff. She wanted to feel something besides sad and he said he was more than willing to be her distraction. That's not exactly the best starting point into a romantic relationship.

[Retired at last]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

An ex of mine is an ad guy and he would tell stories about clients being like "I don't like it" with no further comment.

LOL - how about a client who says, "That's exactly what I wanted and I don't like it!"

[tennisgurl]

I am really sad that Max and Zoey are already done, at least for now. I totally understand that Zoey is still so deep into grief that she cant really commit to a relationship, but I wish that they had just started the season with Zoey telling Max and Simon that she needed time. Its clear that Zoey isn't ready for a relationship right now, but her dating Max for so short a time just makes me feel jerked around as a viewer. Especially if she ends up going back to Simon again. 

Zoey has always had issues dealing with her emotions, but now things are even more overwhelming with the promotion, her family, her love life, and most of all, her dads death. She is trying to move on, but grief isn't something that you can just turn on and off when it stops being convenient, and that is really hard for her to deal with. Zoey refusing to admit until the end how badly she feels and spiraling can be difficult to watch, but its very understandable, and I feel terrible for her. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Dowel Jones]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

Where the hell are Max and Mo getting the money for this not a restaurant restaurant?  I can only imagine what a liquor license costs in San Francisco, let alone the rent and renovations of that building. 

As per Google, upwards of $250,000.  That's why the realtor was pushing the building, as she said that it included the license.  But the renovations would be just as bad, after building permits, architect design costs, and everything else.  They're probably going to have to rely on magic TV money.

[ciubecca98]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I am really sad that Max and Zoey are already done, at least for now. I totally understand that Zoey is still so deep into grief that she cant really commit to a relationship, but I wish that they had just started the season with Zoey telling Max and Simon that she needed time. Its clear that Zoey isn't ready for a relationship right now, but her dating Max for so short a time just makes me feel jerked around as a viewer. Especially if she ends up going back to Simon again. 

 

Given how it went in the first season (where Zoey always and only thought of Simon) I really believe that now she will go back to Simon and I would not be surprised if they get caught by Max since she is back at his apartment and he works with Mo....

[Trini]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's weird, because I feel like there's still something with the Simon/Zoey stuff, but maybe it's more one sided at this point. Simon going to wipe away her tears and getting a bit TOO close for someone who's just a friend felt weird to watch, and a bit icky. It just felt somewhat romantically charged on Simon's end. And I don't think it was an accident that it seemed that way. 

I think you're right; and there still may be some feelings on both ends, and maybe they'll address that in a later episode, but I still want to believe them when they say the triangle is over. I did want to see Zoey and Simon together, at least for a little bit; but now I don't want him to be Zoey's rebound fling.

 

23 hours ago, chaifan said:

Where the hell are Max and Mo getting the money for this not a restaurant restaurant?  I can only imagine what a liquor license costs in San Francisco, let alone the rent and renovations of that building. 

Business loan?

 

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

It reminded me of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - they eventually showed us what the musical interludes looked like on the outside and it was Rebecca staring exaggeratedly weirdly into space.

Speaking of CEG, this is starting to resemble that more! Besides the musical numbers, we've got a woman dealing with her mental health issues with two love interests in the mix. This is more drama than comedy, while CEG was the opposite, it still dealt with some heavy issues.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Trini
clarifiying a sentence

[yourmomiseasy]

16 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The company is very strangely organized. Each floor has people from different functional areas, and then an executive director over all of them? It would make more sense if there was a director of all the programmers (across all floors) and a director of all marketing people (across all floors), etc. Maybe that is how tech companies work, but it seems weird and inefficient.

I noticed none of the women participated in the song too. I'm hoping they eventually get something to do though.

Was this the first time we didn't see a song that Zoey supposedly heard? Max noticed her reacting and guessed she heard him sing, but we didn't see it at all. 

I've worked in both a studio model and a matrix organization (and the studio was under the matrix), so nothing surprises me in terms of org charts.  When I worked in a studio model I was the technical leadership for my studio.  I ran the day to day and was the direct supervisor of all technical employees in that studio.  Then my direct manager was our office's SEVP/GM, but I had a dotted line to the SVP or EVP of tech at our headquarters in NY (I'm in LA).  For a while I directly reported to just the guy in NY when our GM was laid off and they were in the process re-orging.  I also had a business counterpart in my studio and although we ran our studio, his boss was ultimately responsible for the studio.  Our studio had QA and CS and marketing, etc. and while they all dotted lined to us for day to day management, they directly reported to the head of QA or CS or marketing, etc.

What really bothered me though was the specific tasks Zoey was working on and delegated to programmers.  They were not things that someone in her position, a programmer, or an accountant would do.  They were all tasks that would go to an office manager/floor manager (food bar, community service days, softball, holiday decorations), and depending on if the suggestion box was from staff of customers it would either go to the office manager, HR, or customer service.  You wouldn't have someone as highly paid and with a specific skill set, like programmers, do any of that, it is a waste of money.  And you surely would not have someone running the whole show doing it either, as again, it is a waste of money.  Thins are different when it is a smal company and everyone chips in, but this company has multiple floors in a building, they would have an office manager, if not a floor manager.  I could see some kind of admin staff also taking on the tasks if there wasn't a business operations team.  Also, speaking of admin staff, why doesn't Zoey have an assistant or at least a shared assistant or a coordinator? 

All that being said, it seems like no one on the writing team has worked in a good sized office.

I didn't think Zoey actually heard Max singing.  I thought she could tell he was being jealous and didn't want to deal with it.  I thought her being all cagey about what was being sung was her lying.   

[Guest]

I hate that the show makes it seem like people who are grieving can only find comfort with other people who are grieving. What Zoey is doing is understandable but they did the exact same thing with Simon and Jessica last season. Neither Simon or Zoey even attempted to let their partners into their grief. Simon and Zoey’s relationship is unhealthy. 

I really wanted to know what song Max was singing but I loved that we saw that scene completely from Max’s perspective. 

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'll be interested to see if Zoey begins showing blatant signs of being jealous of Jenna spending time with Maggie or Zoey feeling like she's been replaced as her mom's BFF/confidante. She already looked slightly disappointed in this episode when Maggie told her that Jenna got her motivated and back out there.

Zoey was using helping Maggie as a way to avoid her own feelings. Maggie being better means Zoey can’t deny what the real problem is. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Guest

[Empress1]

22 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

What really bothered me though was the specific tasks Zoey was working on and delegated to programmers.  They were not things that someone in her position, a programmer, or an accountant would do.  They were all tasks that would go to an office manager/floor manager (food bar, community service days, softball, holiday decorations), and depending on if the suggestion box was from staff of customers it would either go to the office manager, HR, or customer service. 

I had that thought too. That’s all voluntary “fun committee” stuff (and I never volunteer for that stuff) if there’s no office manager to do it. 

24 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Also, speaking of admin staff, why doesn't Zoey have an assistant or at least a shared assistant or a coordinator? 

Lauren Graham didn’t either, which is weird. I agree - you can tell when a show has writers who haven’t worked in an office.

[I Want My MBTV]

23 minutes ago, Dani said:

I hate that the show makes it seem like people who are grieving can only find comfort with other people who are grieving. What Zoey is doing is understandable but they did the exact same think with Simon and Jessica last season. Neither Simon or Zoey even attempted to let their partners into their grief. Simon and Zoey’s relationship is unhealthy. 

Thank you!  And, not to be rude, but eventually we all lose our parents.  Some earlier then others (raises hand) but sadly they're not going to be around forever.  You're not a unicorn.  I'm not saying you don't get to grieve just saying that there is plenty of company and people to talk to.  

I think Simon is hot but I can never support a relationship with he and Zoey. It is unhealthy and it's built entirely on lies.   It was also bad enough when they were just co-workers but now she's also supposed to be his boss?  There are like a million red flags on that one.   I don't like her with Max either because Max is to clingy (for me) and their chemistry is more sibling then romantic.   I also just hate love triangles.  Is there nothing else?  rant over 🙂

 

[gibasi]

18 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The company is very strangely organized. Each floor has people from different functional areas, and then an executive director over all of them? It would make more sense if there was a director of all the programmers (across all floors) and a director of all marketing people (across all floors), etc. Maybe that is how tech companies work, but it seems weird and inefficient.

I noticed none of the women participated in the song too. I'm hoping they eventually get something to do though.

Was this the first time we didn't see a song that Zoey supposedly heard? Max noticed her reacting and guessed she heard him sing, but we didn't see it at all. 

I honestly thought that Zooey was trying to hear a song so she could better understand her feelings, but could not. It never occurred to me that she was hearing a song that we weren't privy to. That kind of changes things. But why would only that one part be solely from Max's point of view?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, gibasi said:

But why would only that one part be solely from Max's point of view?

My guess is so that we could understand how it feels for Max. It’s not the first time we go out of Zoey’s perspective during a song but it is the first time we didn’t see anything she did. 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, I Want My MBTV said:

it's built entirely on lies

What lies? I think there is a lot of denial on both sides, but those aren't the same thing. Zoey hasn't told Simon she can hear him sing, but that's not something she's even shared with her family. Only Mo and Max are in on that secret. 

[Darian]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

What lies? I think there is a lot of denial on both sides, but those aren't the same thing. Zoey hasn't told Simon she can hear him sing, but that's not something she's even shared with her family. Only Mo and Max are in on that secret. 

I'm kind of a hardass about honestly and forthrightness and all, but I would be afraid to disclose something that could land you on a locked psych ward. Best case, the person you're telling will never see you the same way, never feel completely free around you again. Or something. I just find it interesting, and a little scary. 

I lost my father when I was around Zoey's age, and it was devastating. We'd had a lot of illness in our family, but felt we could handle anything as long as we were all together. And then we weren't. I can't imagine grieving him and having the additional burden of hearing heart songs. That just seems so emotionally draining and confusing. I'd be dreading it all day. Jane Levy is killing it as Zoey and it's almost too real. But I love this weird, heart-wrenching, heart-warming show. 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

What lies? I think there is a lot of denial on both sides, but those aren't the same thing. Zoey hasn't told Simon she can hear him sing, but that's not something she's even shared with her family. Only Mo and Max are in on that secret. 

Simon believes (because she allows him to believe) that she has some deep, intuitive understanding of him. He has no clue that she had the same understanding of Lief or George because she can literally hear people’s deepest feelings. Their entire relationship is built around that. He doesn’t really know Zoey but he thinks he does. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Guest

[jrzy]

21 hours ago, chaifan said:

First thought... people have been saying since Ep. 1 that Max looks different this season.  I agree.  This episode it hit me - he looks a lot like Zachary Levi.  Now on to the episode...

Not my favorite episode.  Max's Say Something was amazing.  Zoey's dream sequences were pretty good.  But every other number was just meh to me.  Which is totally unusual for this show for me.  I really didn't like Hard Knock Life because thinking that these guys really think they're treated as bad as orphans during the Great Depression makes every single one of them an absolute ass.  I can handle Tobin as the prototypical bro, but not all of them. 

If Zoey and Simon hook up and then Zoey and Max get all into the "we were on a break!" territory I will scream.  Please writers, do not do that. 

I like that they're giving Jenna something to do, but I wish they had brought back Howie instead and figured out a way to make him Maggie's new roommate.  Have them run into each other in the grocery store, Howie's house just burned down and Maggie invites him to stay... I don't know... they could have figured something out...  They could have a nice heirloom pot cultivating business going on in the greenhouse... 

Where the hell are Max and Mo getting the money for this not a restaurant restaurant?  I can only imagine what a liquor license costs in San Francisco, let alone the rent and renovations of that building. 

I agree,  I thought Howie was a wonderful addition to the show.  Off topic,  I am confused by the pronoun's used for Mo.  Shouldn't Mo be referred as she/her?   I may be behind the times as an old broad, but it seemed strange to me. 

[appositival]

I was cringing at Max's attempts to control Zoey. When your partner has that thousand mile stare you don't pitch a fuss because "Your brain damage makes me sad"! I think he wanted her out of Maggie's house because he wanted to be the only voice telling her what to do without interference. Tearful apologies after a tantrum are a hallmark of an abusive partner.

I would have told the brogrammers that the cost of the window was coming out of their paychecks. I would have then put Tobin in charge so that I could fire him more easily the next time he (or the group) screwed up, and I would tell him that in front of everyone.

I thought Rob Stewart was pushing Maggie because he could see that she needed to start trusting herself. I suspect that Maggie saying that she would want to stay in the yard that she was designing 'forever' was a hint of things to come. That was what caused him to say that the design was perfect.

[appositival]

12 minutes ago, jrzy said:

Shouldn't Mo be referred as she/her?

If Mo is "non binary sexually" she might prefer they/them as pronouns. I'm not actually sure to which event you are referring, so I may be off on this.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, appositival said:

If Mo is "non binary sexually" she might prefer they/them as pronouns. I'm not actually sure to which event you are referring, so I may be off on this.

Alex Newell is gender non-conforming and prefers he/him. I’m assuming the same is true for Mo since the character is based heavily off of Alex. 

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, appositival said:

If Mo is "non binary sexually" she might prefer they/them as pronouns. I'm not actually sure to which event you are referring, so I may be off on this.

When Max was talking to the real estate woman at the restaurant and Mo was on the phone outside, he said something like, "his boyfriend's on a cruise."

[Empress1]

15 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

When Max was talking to the real estate woman at the restaurant and Mo was on the phone outside, he said something like, "his boyfriend's on a cruise."

Wiki says Alex Newell uses all pronouns but IIRC I’ve only heard Mo use he/him/his. And I don’t think Mo is “non-binary sexually” (I’m not sure what that means - I believe non-binary refers to gender identity, not sexuality) - I think he’s a gender-non-conforming gay man, like Alex Newell himself. (But Mo could be non-binary and still use he/him pronouns).

Edited January 21, 2021 by Empress1

[chaifan]

Regarding Mo:  I may be off on this, but it seems like last season they didn't use any pronouns for Mo.  This season I noticed "he/his" in the first episode, and each one since.  And I think that's the reason people are picking it up just now - they didn't use any pronoun for him last season.  But, I'll admit, I had made the assumption Mo would use she/her, since we've almost always seen the character present as female.  (Exception being the one episode with the  church choir.)  Bottom line - doesn't matter.  Mo's fabulous!

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Regarding Mo:  I may be off on this, but it seems like last season they didn't use any pronouns for Mo.  This season I noticed "he/his" in the first episode, and each one since.  And I think that's the reason people are picking it up just now - they didn't use any pronoun for him last season.  But, I'll admit, I had made the assumption Mo would use she/her, since we've almost always seen the character present as female.  (Exception being the one episode with the  church choir.)  Bottom line - doesn't matter.  Mo's fabulous!

I have noticed they are using he/him more frequently this season. All this talk made be curious and I rewatched the episode with Mo’s church and the pastor described Mo as genderfluid. There was also the episode where Simon meets Mo and he asks Zoey directly about Mo’s gender identity. 

Simon: Your boy Mo’s going to be great at the SPRQ Point party. But, he is a boy, right?

Zoey: He doesn’t believe in labels. 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Simon believes (because she allows him to believe) that she has some deep, intuitive understanding of him. He has no clue that she had the same understanding of Lief or George because she can literally hear people’s deepest feelings. Their entire relationship is built around that. He doesn’t really know Zoey but he thinks he does. 

Zoey does have a special insight on Simon because of her powers, but that not all their relationship. They were already attracted to each other, and they've talked and been friendly/are friends. He's shared things with her outside of the 'heart songs'. He's been supportive to her at work. They have a some things in common. Yes, she'd have to level with him about her powers if they want an honest chance of being a couple, but I don't think the show is going there anymore. (Probably one reason they explicitly made her his boss; but on the other hand they had Joan and Leif together last season....)

If keeping the secret about her powers invalidates the relationship, then it invalidates all her relationships, save Mo and Max. -- But I don't agree with that.

---

I'm almost sure an early season 1 episode had a line that clarified which pronouns for Mo; but I can't go back and check. I think it was #3 or 4? The one with Mo deejaying the SPRQPoint party. In any case, on the show they've used "he/him".

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

Zoey does have a special insight on Simon because of her powers, but that not all their relationship. They were already attracted to each other, and they've talked and been friendly/are friends. He's shared things with her outside of the 'heart songs'. He's been supportive to her at work. They have a some things in common. Yes, she'd have to level with him about her powers if they want an honest chance of being a couple, but I don't think the show is going there anymore. (Probably one reason they explicitly made her his boss; but on the other hand they had Joan and Leif together last season....)

I didn’t say that it is their whole relationship but it is the foundation of their relationship. She was attracted to him before but they weren’t friends or even friendly before she heard him sing and approached him. He clearly saw their bond as something special while he had no clue where her insight came from. He had an emotional affair with her in large part because if that bond and this idea that she was the only one who could understand his grief. In my mind their relationship is fundamentally unbalanced in a way that is extremely unfair to him. 

I’m less certain than you that they aren’t going there. I would be very surprised if they don’t go there even the Max is most likely the endgame. 

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

If keeping the secret about her powers invalidates the relationship, then it invalidates all her relationships, save Mo and Max. -- But I don't agree with that.

To me it’s not that it’s a secret alone but the nature of Simon and Zoey’s specific relationship. I also didn’t say that it invalidated the relationship but it does make the relationship problematic. 

[Maverick]

 I took the scene in the kitchen with Max as Zoey faking that she heard a song.  It didn't take a musical number to see Max was uncomfortable and Zoey was trying to get him to admit it.  She was unwilling to throw out even a few lyrics... because there were none. 

 I'm guessing the Jenna role was created in lieu of bringing back Bernadette Peter's.  The way her character was introduced last season seemed to tee her up to be Maggie's buddy and she seemed like the type who would encourage Maggie to be creative and whimsical. 

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Regarding Mo:  I may be off on this, but it seems like last season they didn't use any pronouns for Mo.  This season I noticed "he/his" in the first episode, and each one since.  And I think that's the reason people are picking it up just now - they didn't use any pronoun for him last season.  But, I'll admit, I had made the assumption Mo would use she/her, since we've almost always seen the character present as female.  (Exception being the one episode with the  church choir.)  Bottom line - doesn't matter.  Mo's fabulous!

They did refer to Mo as "he" last season. I remember being surprised, because I thought his dress would mean he wanted to be seen as female. I guess there is a lot I don't know about the various ways people identify themselves, as most people I know fall into traditional gender roles. But the show has made it clear Mo is a he/him for awhile now.

21 minutes ago, Trini said:

Zoey does have a special insight on Simon because of her powers, but that not all their relationship. They were already attracted to each other, and they've talked and been friendly/are friends. He's shared things with her outside of the 'heart songs'. He's been supportive to her at work. They have a some things in common. Yes, she'd have to level with him about her powers if they want an honest chance of being a couple, but I don't think the show is going there anymore. (Probably one reason they explicitly made her his boss; but on the other hand they had Joan and Leif together last season....)

Zoey was attracted to Simon before she got her powers. We don't know if Simon was attracted to her beforehand. It seemed to me like they had never really talked before she heard him sing and reached out. 

That doesn't mean they don't have a real bond. Zoey has heard lots of people sing and didn't bond with them, so I think there is a connection between them. However, I agree she'd have to tell him about her powers before they could be a couple. He'd probably be pissed the way Max was at first too. But her now being his boss makes me think/hope they are not going there.

[Trini]

17 minutes ago, Dani said:

I didn’t say that it is their whole relationship but it is the foundation of their relationship. She was attracted to him before but they weren’t friends or even friendly before she heard him sing and approached him. He clearly saw their bond as something special while he had no clue where her insight came from. He had an emotional affair with her in large part because if that bond and this idea that she was the only one who could understand his grief. In my mind their relationship is fundamentally unbalanced in a way that is extremely unfair to him. 

That was their first (non-surface level) interaction, but I don't agree that it's the foundation of their relationship. They've got more than that.

I agree that it's unbalanced; like I said, she'd have to be honest with him before they could really start something. But as this episode showed, even with knowing, her powers were unfair to Max also. It's problematic with everyone she hears heart songs from, not just Simon.

17 minutes ago, Maverick said:

I'm guessing the Jenna role was created in lieu of bringing back Bernadette Peter's.  The way her character was introduced last season seemed to tee her up to be Maggie's buddy and she seemed like the type who would encourage Maggie to be creative and whimsical. 

This sounds about right. I hope they can get Bernadette back for a guest spot, though!

[Cthulhudrew]

11 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I really hope they don't throw her into a relationship with Rob Stewart just yet. He knows her husband recently died.

I had a feeling from the first scene with him that that is what they were going to do, and from the preview, it looks like they are. I agree with you- I wish they wouldn't do it, but I guess they figure there is a whole lot of heartsinging to mine with Maggie feeling conflicted about moving on, and Zoey getting mad that she's moving on, etc.

I seem to be in the minority, but I felt like Max was being pretty selfish several times in this episode; first with his obvious jealousy about Simon, then later when he was feeling down because he couldn't help Zoey. It's great to care enough to want to be able to help your partner, but when your first reaction when they say "It's hard to explain why I am feeling the way I do" is "Is it because of me?" that really feels very self-involved. (It wouldn't be entirely uncharacteristic of Max to be selfish; he went through a tizzy last season when he felt rejected, too.)

At the same time, I thought Zoey was being kind of selfish in taking so long to communicate with Max about her feelings. I haven't ever been in that kind of situation, so probably can't appreciate just how hard it can be- and frankly, should be more sympathetic since I'm not exactly the most open person myself in spite of not having a parent die- but I felt like they were both being kind of crappy to one another.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Trini said:

That was their first (non-surface level) interaction, but I don't agree that it's the foundation of their relationship. They've got more than that.

I agree that it's unbalanced; like I said, she'd have to be honest with him before they could really start something.

I like Simon and Zoey. I would be fine with them in a relationship eventually. For now I feel like they have too much baggage individually and together to even maintain a friendship. He needs to deal with what happened with Jessica and she needs to deal with her grief. In my opinion they are codependent. Their relationship being unbalanced plays a part in that. 

47 minutes ago, Trini said:

But as this episode showed, even with knowing, her powers were unfair to Max also. It's problematic with everyone she hears heart songs from, not just Simon.

Absolutely, which I why I don’t think Zoey should be with anyone right now. 

27 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I had a feeling from the first scene with him that that is what they were going to do, and from the preview, it looks like they are. I agree with you- I wish they wouldn't do it, but I guess they figure there is a whole lot of heartsinging to mine with Maggie feeling conflicted about moving on, and Zoey getting mad that she's moving on, etc.

It seemed obvious. I hope the use it to show Maggie’s not ready to move on and maybe let it be a lesson for Zoey. 

34 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I seem to be in the minority, but I felt like Max was being pretty selfish several times in this episode; first with his obvious jealousy about Simon, then later when he was feeling down because he couldn't help Zoey. It's great to care enough to want to be able to help your partner, but when your first reaction when they say "It's hard to explain why I am feeling the way I do" is "Is it because of me?" that really feels very self-involved. (It wouldn't be entirely uncharacteristic of Max to be selfish; he went through a tizzy last season when he felt rejected, too.)

At the same time, I thought Zoey was being kind of selfish in taking so long to communicate with Max about her feelings. I haven't ever been in that kind of situation, so probably can't appreciate just how hard it can be- and frankly, should be more sympathetic since I'm not exactly the most open person myself in spite of not having a parent die- but I felt like they were both being kind of crappy to one another.

I completely agree. I thought they were both wrong and they were both right at points. Too me it just showed that neither of them are ready to be in a relationship right now. I’m not too hard on Max for it because he did come around in the end and had a mature reaction. Max needs to work on his insecurity and neediness. 

I also liked that Zoey finally talked to him after being in avoidance mode all episode. I hope we see a similar mature conversation between Zoey and Simon soon. 

One thing I really appreciate about the show is that I feel these emotional issues are all deliberate and end up acknowledged eventually. 

[Trini]

On re-watch: Did Zoey's apartment get a complete makeover? When did she have time for that?

 

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I like Simon and Zoey. I would be fine with them in a relationship eventually. For now I feel like they have too much baggage individually and together to even maintain a friendship. He needs to deal with what happened with Jessica and she needs to deal with her grief. In my opinion they are codependent. Their relationship being unbalanced plays a part in that. 

I hardly think they're codependent when they barely spend any time together; but I think we might just have to agree to disagree about the nature of their relationship.