S02.E03: Zoey’s Extraordinary Dreams

[possibilities]

10 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

 

I didn't think Zoey actually heard Max singing.  I thought she could tell he was being jealous and didn't want to deal with it.  I thought her being all cagey about what was being sung was her lying.   

I thought either that, or she literally fell asleep for a few seconds. Honestly, I thought Max was coming off very bad all episode. He wanted her to be over it, and settle into a honeymoon with him, but that's not realistic under the circumstances, and also he was talking at her and wanting her to support him all the time, but he wasn't really paying any real attention or tuning in at all to where she was at until she'd explode-- either wake up gasping (and apparently he didn't notice she was having nightmares for a while), or some other major breakdown. And he was angry and accusing and jealous and honestly-- I thought he was acting like a total dick. 

You don't have to have been through it in order to realize it's something you need to learn to understand. A parent dying is not such an obscure thing that a partner can't be expected to be sensitive to it. 

It's fine if they want to break up rather than work it out, but I don't think it bodes well for a long term success if he can't deal with it in a less self-absorbed and pissy way, and she doesn't trust him enough to talk to him even though they've been best friends for years. 

--

As for the office, I have dealt with enough employees with the work ethic and emotional maturity of spoiled adolescents, that I'm not surprised, but I am thoroughly disgusted. That Hard Knock Life bullshit was really too much. As was breaking a window and buying erection uniforms and having a hard boiled egg bar, I mean... seriously? I don't see Joan putting up with a team this dysfunctional. I don't see how they got anything done before, for that matter. They won the watch project because supposedly they were competent programmers. They were always a bit fratty but they did used to actually work sometimes, and we didn't see major property destruction in season 1, so what the hell? Are we meant to think this is Zoey's fault for being a distracted manager? Because I think a team of adults ought to need a little less supervision and cattle-prodding than that.

 

[Trini]

31 minutes ago, possibilities said:

As for the office, I have dealt with enough employees with the work ethic and emotional maturity of spoiled adolescents, that I'm not surprised, but I am thoroughly disgusted. That Hard Knock Life bullshit was really too much. As was breaking a window and buying erection uniforms and having a hard boiled egg bar, I mean... seriously? I don't see Joan putting up with a team this dysfunctional. I don't see how they got anything done before, for that matter. They won the watch project because supposedly they were competent programmers. They were always a bit fratty but they did used to actually work sometimes, and we didn't see major property destruction in season 1, so what the hell? Are we meant to think this is Zoey's fault for being a distracted manager? Because I think a team of adults ought to need a little less supervision and cattle-prodding than that.

The "Brogrammers" were definitely not this bad last year! Tobin was terrible sometimes, but they had started to give him layers.

Zoey could apologize for losing her temper, but not for anything else, though. They broke her window!

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

They were always a bit fratty but they did used to actually work sometimes, and we didn't see major property destruction in season 1, so what the hell? Are we meant to think this is Zoey's fault for being a distracted manager?

Seemingly so. 🤷🏻‍♀️
But, also, IIRC, this show has a habit of ending episodes on off notes like Zoey being a seemingly incompetent manager, and then resolving the problem in the following episode. 
Like maybe next episode Zoey will bounce in all bright eyed and ready to manage
…and ready to bed Bachelor Number 2. 🙄

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I seem to be in the minority, but I felt like Max was being pretty selfish several times in this episode; first with his obvious jealousy about Simon, then later when he was feeling down because he couldn't help Zoey. It's great to care enough to want to be able to help your partner, but when your first reaction when they say "It's hard to explain why I am feeling the way I do" is "Is it because of me?" that really feels very self-involved. (It wouldn't be entirely uncharacteristic of Max to be selfish; he went through a tizzy last season when he felt rejected, too.)

At the same time, I thought Zoey was being kind of selfish in taking so long to communicate with Max about her feelings. I haven't ever been in that kind of situation, so probably can't appreciate just how hard it can be- and frankly, should be more sympathetic since I'm not exactly the most open person myself in spite of not having a parent die- but I felt like they were both being kind of crappy to one another.

I know the ability to empathize varies from person to person, but with death you shouldn't have to have personal experience in order to be a considerate and supportive friend/partner. When I was 16, my high school boyfriend's father died. He was the first person I knew who died so I had not dealt with any of this before. I didn't know what to do, but I did my best to be kind and understanding and gentle while my boyfriend was grieving. It took MONTHS for him to even begin to recover. I was a dumb teenager so I'm sure that I made some mistakes, but I was not naive or selfish enough to make any of his behavior about ME. That's what was frustrating me so much with Max. None of this is about you. It's about Zoey and her loss. Sorry to say this but what you want right now doesn't matter very much. I'm not saying this gives Zoey the bridezilla option to go nuts, but right now, her grief >>>>>> all of Max's other stuff.

12 hours ago, appositival said:

I was cringing at Max's attempts to control Zoey. When your partner has that thousand mile stare you don't pitch a fuss because "Your brain damage makes me sad"! I think he wanted her out of Maggie's house because he wanted to be the only voice telling her what to do without interference. Tearful apologies after a tantrum are a hallmark of an abusive partner.

I felt like there was a part of Max that genuinely thought it might be good for Zoey to go back to her place and not have to be responsible for Maggie 24/7, but I also think there was a part of Max that just wanted Zoey to get back to her old life so they could have noisy sex at any given minute (even when you're an adult, it's still a little bit weird to have sex in your childhood home when you know your family members are home) so that he wouldn't have to deal with Zoey and Maggie's rituals and schedules (like their nightly jigsaw puzzle time).

12 hours ago, jrzy said:

I am confused by the pronoun's used for Mo.  Shouldn't Mo be referred as she/her?   I may be behind the times as an old broad, but it seemed strange to me. 

Think of pronouns as similar to someone's name. Whatever they tell you to use is what you use, regardless of whether it aligns with their appearance or what you expect. I'm not being snarky either. It's a lot easier to just accept that this is what they feel comfortable with. I don't think it's much different than someone named William asking to be called Billy or even a middle name. I've become friends with people and then found out months or years later that the name they go by is neither their first nor middle name. They just decided that this other name fit them better so that's how they introduce themselves (as opposed to "my legal name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt but please call me Barney").

14 hours ago, Dani said:

I hate that the show makes it seem like people who are grieving can only find comfort with other people who are grieving. What Zoey is doing is understandable but they did the exact same thing with Simon and Jessica last season. Neither Simon or Zoey even attempted to let their partners into their grief. Simon and Zoey’s relationship is unhealthy. 

I gave Simon a bit more of a pass on this during S1 because he told Zoey that Jessica was fed up with his grief and wanted him to just get over it, which was why he didn't feel comfortable talking about it with Jessica anymore. I think that Simon gets what Zoey is going through because he has experienced it, but (1) that doesn't mean other people with living parents can't understand as well and (2) it doesn't mean that Simon is the only person she can talk to about this stuff. Most adults have suffered some kind of loss so even if it wasn't the death of a parent, they can understand the general concept.

I don't mind that she and Simon are talking about her feelings about Mitch's death, but I also think that it might be healthier for her to find a therapist or a support group, both of which would give her the same information (yes, bad dreams are common as is insomnia - Simon isn't the only one who knows these things!). Having an impartial party listen to you can be really freeing.

Between Simon and Max, Simon has been a lot more patient with Zoey since Mitch's death. He has asked her if she's okay, let her know that he's around, but not pushed her. I know the situation is different with Max since he has been spending more time with her, but if you're going to start hooking up with your dream girl right after her dad dies, you don't get to be demanding about how this is making YOU feel.

He was correct that she wasn't always listening to him, but he was getting offended because she was so exhausted/numb/worried about her mom that she wasn't paying attention to him, which is a bit much. When Mr. EB's dad died, there were times when he just sat and stared at the wall. I would check in with him to see if he needed anything, but other than that I just let him be. You can't expect people to act a certain way just because that's the way you think that you would act, and that's especially true with grief. People react differently to grief. There's no one way to mourn and process death, and there's no specific timeline that says you will be totally over it and back to normal in X number of days. If Max can't deal with Zoey right now, it's best that he not give her the false belief that she can rely on him for understanding and support when he isn't capable of giving it without being selfish. Sorry to say, but helping someone through grief requires a lot of selflessness. I don't think Max is a terrible person. I just don't think he has a realistic idea of what Zoey is going through and what she needs to get through it.

[vibeology]

35 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

He was correct that she wasn't always listening to him, but he was getting offended because she was so exhausted/numb/worried about her mom that she wasn't paying attention to him, which is a bit much.

This. When people are grieving, you've got to vent out not up. If Max is friends with Simon and Mo, those are the people he should go to about his issues right now, not up to Zoey who is dealing with her grief, her concerns about her family and a return to work that is very stressful and full of change.

That's not to say that Max shouldn't share what's going on in his life with Zoey, but if he isn't getting the responses and emotional support he needs right now because she's obviously struggling, he shouldn't push for her attention but seek that support elsewhere for now. 

[yourmomiseasy]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Think of pronouns as similar to someone's name. Whatever they tell you to use is what you use, regardless of whether it aligns with their appearance or what you expect. I'm not being snarky either. It's a lot easier to just accept that this is what they feel comfortable with. I don't think it's much different than someone named William asking to be called Billy or even a middle name. I've become friends with people and then found out months or years later that the name they go by is neither their first nor middle name. They just decided that this other name fit them better so that's how they introduce themselves (as opposed to "my legal name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt but please call me Barney").

I just had this EXACT argument with someone a couple of weeks ago.

[HappyBerry]

On 1/19/2021 at 8:00 PM, funnygirl said:

I would've preferred tptb didn't rush Zoey and Max together just to break them up after two episodes. Their connection deserves more than that. And it's going to be highly annoying when - not if - Zoey hooks up with Simon. Talk about getting to have your cake and eat it too… 

Yep. My first reaction when they decided to pause things was "so, is she going to hook up with Simon next episode, or are they going to wait for two". If/when she does, it will be interesting to see how they show it. Will it be shown as her being self-destructive and turning to relationships to avoid having to deal with other things? (it's kind of where I thought they were going in episode 2 when she called Max a 'grief vacation') Or will they try to show it as some romantic thing.

On 1/20/2021 at 6:56 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But once again, Max made this all about HIM. When she finally started talking about some of this at the end of the episode and she said she started to wonder if something else was causing the bad dreams, he said, "Something like ME?" JFC, dude, she just lost a parent. NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU.

I wanted to yell at Max so much at that point. Like dude, she's dealing with the death of a father, helping her grieving mother, and just got a bunch of new responsibilities at work....and you want to make this all about you?!?

Skylar Astin is charming and I really want to like Max, but between his Nice Guy behavior last season and things like this, dude just is just fling up red flags all over the place!

On 1/20/2021 at 8:30 AM, dubbel zout said:

I really hope they don't throw her into a relationship with Rob Stewart just yet. He knows her husband recently died.

I saw "attractive older man" and immediately wondered when they were going to start trying to put Maggie in a new relationship. Fortunately, he mentioned knowing her husband just died....but I also saw signs they might decide to go there.

22 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Things are different when it is a small company and everyone chips in, but this company has multiple floors in a building, they would have an office manager, if not a floor manager.  I could see some kind of admin staff also taking on the tasks if there wasn't a business operations team.  Also, speaking of admin staff, why doesn't Zoey have an assistant or at least a shared assistant or a coordinator? 

All that being said, it seems like no one on the writing team has worked in a good sized office.

I work on a pretty small team of 20 people within a smallish 200 person company. And even our team has an admin assistant to deal with all that kind of stuff for just our team, in addition to a team of office managers plus their team of hourly employees that deal with some of the bigger company wide stuff. There is no way they'd drop "getting signed up for softball league" on someone that is manager for multiple teams. 

17 hours ago, Maverick said:

 I took the scene in the kitchen with Max as Zoey faking that she heard a song.  It didn't take a musical number to see Max was uncomfortable and Zoey was trying to get him to admit it.  She was unwilling to throw out even a few lyrics... because there were none. . 

Same. I think she was just trying to figure out how to deal with her own feelings and Max coming at her like that, and then he started getting so pushy about it that she tried to get out of the situation...and instead it just escalated it. I think if she'd actually heard a song it would have been more of her going "I don't know the song, something about you being mad", not refusing to share any details about it.

16 hours ago, Dani said:

I like Simon and Zoey. I would be fine with them in a relationship eventually. For now I feel like they have too much baggage individually and together to even maintain a friendship. He needs to deal with what happened with Jessica and she needs to deal with her grief. In my opinion they are codependent. Their relationship being unbalanced plays a part in that. 

That's been my thought the whole time with Simon. I actually rather like him, but right now he needs to deal with all this baggage he's been carrying around before jumping into another relationship. Like, having a supportive partner is good, but also girlfriend =/= therapist.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, HappyBerry said:

Yep. My first reaction when they decided to pause things was "so, is she going to hook up with Simon next episode, or are they going to wait for two". If/when she does, it will be interesting to see how they show it. Will it be shown as her being self-destructive and turning to relationships to avoid having to deal with other things? (it's kind of where I thought they were going in episode 2 when she called Max a 'grief vacation') Or will they try to show it as some romantic thing.

Me, too. I think that is the crux of my issue with Zoey and Simon talking. He’s a good person genuinely helping her but not long ago he was singing “Are you gonna be my girl.” Zoey needs a friend to talk to who can understand and doesn’t want to sleep with her. 

2 hours ago, HappyBerry said:

I wanted to yell at Max so much at that point. Like dude, she's dealing with the death of a father, helping her grieving mother, and just got a bunch of new responsibilities at work....and you want to make this all about you?!?

 

2 hours ago, HappyBerry said:

That's been my thought the whole time with Simon. I actually rather like him, but right now he needs to deal with all this baggage he's been carrying around before jumping into another relationship. Like, having a supportive partner is good, but also girlfriend =/= therapist.

Exactly. Both this guys need to deal with their issues before Zoey can be in a functional relationship with either of them. They are both too intense right now which is the last thing Zoey needs. 

[FnkyChkn34]

I've been watching this show from the beginning, and I am surprised that I liked it so much.  I thought that the premise would be too cheesy for me, but 85% of the time it works.  I've skimmed through this thread and I have a few comments on topics already mentioned.

First, I'm team Max.  I never liked Simon from the beginning.  Didn't he cheat on his fiancee?  Never a good look...  He's hot and all, and seems compassionate, but I don't know.  There's something about him that doesn't seem genuine, I guess?  I also agree that all they really have in common is grief, and that's not enough to build a lasting romantic relationship.

I've been a Skylar Astin fan since Pitch Perfect so that might be why I like Max; he already had an advantage.  I don't think he looks much different than last year, except maybe he's been hitting the gym since his divorce? I thought his rendition of Say Something was excellent, but also a little insensitive.  I agree that Zoey needs to communicate more and that she does have an unfair advantage, but he also should have been a bit more patient.  There were times this episode where he was just talking too much.

That said, this show is also fiction, and meant to be entertaining.  I completely understand that the death of a loved one takes a long time to grieve, and everyone grieves differently (I've been there), but if the entire season is going to focus on them grieving and *not* being able to move on, then I don't know how much I'll like it.  I definitely like that they showed Maggie able to be motivated to work again and get some creativity back - now it's Zoey's turn.  Then the show can hopefully become a bit lighthearted again?  That would be nice.

I also completely do not understand Zoey's work environment.  I mean, the actual space itself.  I work in an office where everyone has... an office.  I could never work in an open concept, and I also agree with those asking where the admin support is?  Not to sound pretentious, but I recently switched jobs and went from where I had a designated assistant to now having a pool, and it's still taking some getting used to...  But, I have never worked at a start-up tech company in Silicon Valley, so I just assume that they do things very, very differently there. 😉  

Lastly, I don't mind that some of the characters (actors) are weaker singers than others.  If Zoey were in real life, there would be plenty of people singing very off key!  Not everyone can be Broadway ready, like Skylar Astin, so the different abilities make it more realistic, IMO.

Edited January 22, 2021 by FnkyChkn34
fixed typo

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I also completely do not understand Zoey's work environment.  I mean, the actual space itself.  I work in an office where everyone has... an office.  I could never work in an open concept, 

I would go crazy in that space. I don't have an office, but I do have a cubicle. My row has four cubes (two on each side of a short aisle), if I'm sitting at my desk I can't see the person in the cube behind me (which is actually empty right now, anyway) and I have to turn around to see the person across from me. Standing I can see over the front and back of the cube, but to my left is a wall that is taller than me that separates me from the person on the other side. I would love to have an office to myself (and not one with all glass walls!) but at least it's not totally open all around me and I have some sense of privacy.

[GeorgiaRai]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

First, I'm team Max.  I never liked Simon from the beginning.  Didn't he cheat on his fiancee?  Never a good look...  He's hot and all, and seems compassionate, but I don't know.  There's something about him that doesn't seem genuine, I guess?  I also agree that all they really have in common is grief, and that's not enough to build a lasting romantic relationship.

I've been a Skylar Astin fan since Pitch Perfect so that might be why I like Max; he already had an advantage.  I don't think he looks much different than last year, except maybe he's been hitting the gym since his divorce? I thought his rendition of Say Something was excellent, but also a little insensitive.  I agree that Zoey needs to communicate more and that she does have an unfair advantage, but he also should have been a bit more patient.  There were times this episode where he was just talking too much.

That said, this show is also fiction, and meant to be entertaining.  I completely understand that the death of a loved one takes a long time to grieve, and everyone grieves differently (I've been there), but if the entire season is going to focus on them grieving and *not* being able to move on, then I don't know how much I'll like it.  I definitely like that they showed Maggie able to be motivated to work again and get some creativity back - now it's Zoey's turn.  Then the show can hopefully become a bit lighthearted again?  That would be nice.

I agree with all of this, with one minor nitpick:  I don't think Max's "Say Something" was insensitive. I thought his feelings were understandable, and (as far as he knew) he was just processing them internally. 

On another note, I don't think it was selfish of him to ask Zoey "is it me?"  It would've seemed more selfish if it hadn't occurred to him that he might be a source of some of her angst. And besides...he was kinda right, wasn't he?

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I also completely do not understand Zoey's work environment.  I mean, the actual space itself.  I work in an office where everyone has... an office.  I could never work in an open concept, and I also agree with those asking where the admin support is?  Not to sound pretentious, but I recently switched jobs and went from where I had a designated assistant to now having a pool, and it's still taking some getting used to...  But, I have never worked at a start-up tech company in Silicon Valley, so I just assume that do things very, very differently there. 😉  

The open space in Zoey's office is very big. My old office was open space, and it was just rows of desks and people are about 6 feet away from each other. Even the executives/bosses. Then there were "huddle rooms" where you could go if you needed to have a loud phone conversion or didn't want people to overhear what you were discussing. But lots of people just had loud conversations at their desks where everyone could hear anyway. You would be surprised how quickly you learn to tune people out.  Right before Covid hit we moved to a new office where there was more privacy, which was nice.

Zoey's office has tons of space between desks and all those cool extra places to sit like those swings. It looks so fun to me. Maybe now that Zoey has been promoted we'll start to see more people who work there. Before it made sense that she only interacted with other programmers.

Edited January 22, 2021 by KaveDweller

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I also completely do not understand Zoey's work environment.  I mean, the actual space itself.  I work in an office where everyone has... an office.  I could never work in an open concept, and I also agree with those asking where the admin support is?  Not to sound pretentious, but I recently switched jobs and went from where I had a designated assistant to now having a pool, and it's still taking some getting used to...  But, I have never worked at a start-up tech company in Silicon Valley, so I just assume that do things very, very differently there.

Mr. EB's office is in San Francisco and they have an open concept office. It's very popular in tech because it's supposed to encourage collaboration and spontaneous brainstorming, but I know I would HATE it. A few years ago, they took it a step further and moved to no one having a permanent desk. There are just a bunch of desks in an open space and it's first come, first served. No one wanted to do it, but HQ insisted that once they did it, everyone would love it. They were wrong, and it only got worse a year ago when COVID started becoming a thing. They were supposed to wipe down their desks each morning before using them but it became a really crucial thing to stop the spread of cooties. I was like SEE? THIS IDEA IS TERRIBLE!

[ams1001]

50 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There are just a bunch of desks in an open space and it's first come, first served.

God I would hate that so much. I guess if you solely work on a laptop (which it seems the programmers do, I guess?) it's fine, as far as actual working goes, but I keep tea and snacks and books and stuff in my cubicle, not to mention work-related papers/books/etc. So I don't have to bring everything back and forth with me every day. If you want me to be happy working in your office, give me some space of my own. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

God I would hate that so much. I guess if you solely work on a laptop (which it seems the programmers do, I guess?) it's fine, as far as actual working goes, but I keep tea and snacks and books and stuff in my cubicle, not to mention work-related papers/books/etc. So I don't have to bring everything back and forth with me every day. If you want me to be happy working in your office, give me some space of my own. 

I'm with you. They gave them lockers so they could store their personal stuff (prompting Mr. EB to ask, "Are we in middle school now?") but I keep a lot of personal stuff in my desk drawers (snacks, hand lotion, etc) in addition to actual work stuff. I'm also very particular about my pens and office supplies so I would hate having a generic stash that I had to share with everyone aka keep people from walking off with my favorite pen.

[Guest]

I had a love hate relationship with this episode. It felt very real in a lot of ways, but I also hated seeing Max and Zoey break up.

[FnkyChkn34]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. EB's office is in San Francisco and they have an open concept office. It's very popular in tech because it's supposed to encourage collaboration and spontaneous brainstorming, but I know I would HATE it. A few years ago, they took it a step further and moved to no one having a permanent desk. There are just a bunch of desks in an open space and it's first come, first served. No one wanted to do it, but HQ insisted that once they did it, everyone would love it. They were wrong, and it only got worse a year ago when COVID started becoming a thing. They were supposed to wipe down their desks each morning before using them but it became a really crucial thing to stop the spread of cooties. I was like SEE? THIS IDEA IS TERRIBLE!

 

12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

God I would hate that so much. I guess if you solely work on a laptop (which it seems the programmers do, I guess?) it's fine, as far as actual working goes, but I keep tea and snacks and books and stuff in my cubicle, not to mention work-related papers/books/etc. So I don't have to bring everything back and forth with me every day. If you want me to be happy working in your office, give me some space of my own. 

I'm with you guys - that sounds like my nightmare!  I think I would have to quit.  Even prior to a pandemic, that's just a petri dish of germs.  I suppose that the employees could just pick the same desk every day and then it "worked" yet didn't work, but still... that's just... no.  

[Empress1]

On 1/21/2021 at 8:46 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I've become friends with people and then found out months or years later that the name they go by is neither their first nor middle name. They just decided that this other name fit them better so that's how they introduce themselves (as opposed to "my legal name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt but please call me Barney").

I went to high school with someone whose name has nothing whatsoever to do with what appears on her government documents - it's not a middle name, not a nickname for her first or middle name (e.g. if her first or middle name were Elizabeth and she went by Lizzie). She was like "I'm Sinclaire," and her government name is Maxine Khadijah Smith. She goes by Sinclaire because her parents call her Sinclaire and have from birth. Why they didn't name her Sinclaire, I do not know.

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. EB's office is in San Francisco and they have an open concept office. It's very popular in tech because it's supposed to encourage collaboration and spontaneous brainstorming, but I know I would HATE it. A few years ago, they took it a step further and moved to no one having a permanent desk. There are just a bunch of desks in an open space and it's first come, first served. No one wanted to do it, but HQ insisted that once they did it, everyone would love it. They were wrong, and it only got worse a year ago when COVID started becoming a thing. They were supposed to wipe down their desks each morning before using them but it became a really crucial thing to stop the spread of cooties. I was like SEE? THIS IDEA IS TERRIBLE!

I have been honest in interviews when asked about what I think of open offices. I'm like "I ... hate them, sorry." Or "Do you like open offices?" "I don't." I don't! (I don't like open floor plans in houses either.) I don't want to go into the fucking stairwell for some privacy to make a doctor's appointment. I don't want to smell somebody's lunch across the office. I don't want to worry about accidentally kicking the person who sits across from me. They say it's to encourage collaboration but it's really just cheaper to cram folks in like that. There has been study after study about why they suck. 

21 hours ago, HappyBerry said:

I saw "attractive older man" and immediately wondered when they were going to start trying to put Maggie in a new relationship. Fortunately, he mentioned knowing her husband just died....but I also saw signs they might decide to go there.

This was the first thing I thought and I was getting ready to get mad about it.

[yourmomiseasy]

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. EB's office is in San Francisco and they have an open concept office. It's very popular in tech because it's supposed to encourage collaboration and spontaneous brainstorming, but I know I would HATE it. A few years ago, they took it a step further and moved to no one having a permanent desk. There are just a bunch of desks in an open space and it's first come, first served. No one wanted to do it, but HQ insisted that once they did it, everyone would love it. They were wrong, and it only got worse a year ago when COVID started becoming a thing. They were supposed to wipe down their desks each morning before using them but it became a really crucial thing to stop the spread of cooties. I was like SEE? THIS IDEA IS TERRIBLE!

This is the worst thing I've ever heard.  I work in tech (LA, not SF) so I've always worked in open floor plan offices.  It was a banner day for me when I became management and got an office and could get off the floor because I would get murderously ragey over noises.  Like at one point in time my desk was next to the game room.  I'd be all stressed out on a tight deadline and it would enrage me to hear people playing Rockband or pinball while I was trying to work.  I worked at one office where we all had laptops so we could move around, but we still all had desks.  It was so we could go sit out in the courtyard and collab or work in a meeting room or whatever.  At one point my desk was a folding table under the stairs outside a conference room (we were out of room and I was the last hire), so I was always getting angry and picking up my laptop and storming out.  The last straw for me on that one was one time Fifty Cent's body guards were hanging out at my desk and I was like I cannot fucking work in these conditions and flipped out so my boss claimed an office as his own and gave me his desk.  Another time I had to yell at actual pimps to shut up because I was on a conference call.  That office was fun, it was actually CTU from 24, so one of our conference rooms was the Keifer Kube.  But anyway, I am familiar with dumb and crazy offices and not having desks is just unfathomably stupid.  

[topanga]

12 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

This is the worst thing I've ever heard.  I work in tech (LA, not SF) so I've always worked in open floor plan offices.  It was a banner day for me when I became management and got an office and could get off the floor because I would get murderously ragey over noises.  Like at one point in time my desk was next to the game room.  I'd be all stressed out on a tight deadline and it would enrage me to hear people playing Rockband or pinball while I was trying to work.  I worked at one office where we all had laptops so we could move around, but we still all had desks.  It was so we could go sit out in the courtyard and collab or work in a meeting room or whatever.  At one point my desk was a folding table under the stairs outside a conference room (we were out of room and I was the last hire), so I was always getting angry and picking up my laptop and storming out.  The last straw for me on that one was one time Fifty Cent's body guards were hanging out at my desk and I was like I cannot fucking work in these conditions and flipped out so my boss claimed an office as his own and gave me his desk.  Another time I had to yell at actual pimps to shut up because I was on a conference call.  That office was fun, it was actually CTU from 24, so one of our conference rooms was the Keifer Kube.  But anyway, I am familiar with dumb and crazy offices and not having desks is just unfathomably stupid.  

You work in tech and had encounters with pimps and 50 Cent's body guard? LOL. In the words of John McLane, "California." 

It does sound like the stressful environment. I can't work with a lot of noise around me. 

[D Angel]

Quick hits:

Zoey & Max didn't "break up" in the traditional sense. They paused their nascent romantic relationship to let Zoey work out her personal stuff. Zoey not sleeping and not knowing why, on top of her experiences that a trained medical professional would likley describe as schizophrenia, is enough to send anyone toward a mental breakdown. I suspect we'll see Max & Zoey maintain a close relationship but without romantic entanglements, and neither will be looking for other opportunities either. They are around 30 after all.

I miss Howie and Joan, and George and Jenna are not engaging replacements for recurring characters. It's nice to see Maggie rebuilding her life and I suppose if Jenna is Maggie's muse, that's as good a place to shuttle her as anyone.

The writers and maybe Austin Winsberg himself don't do "business" stuff very well. It doesn't matter that much for the quality of the show, but there are unrealistic plot elements related to SPRQ Point, Max/Mo's etc which come off as sour notes. Max/Mo's business idea is intriguing -- sounds a lot like a food court with embellishments to me -- but I'm not sure where they would find the money to pull it off. Mo has no money in an expensive city, and Max was just a moderately paid software engineer -- in an expensive city. If Max has family money behind him, they would explain how he could start a business, but then it wouldn't be a general partnership between just Max and Mo.

Brogrammers are pricks a lot of the time. And with SPRQ Point in financial trouble I suspect a lot of them would be looking for other jobs.

My wish for the SPRQ Point plot line (are your listening showrunners?): Bring back Howie's deaf daughter (forgot her name) and Zoey leads an effort to move SPRQ Point toward assistive technologies, which can help stabilize the company. Then bring back Howie as a consultant. Makes a lot more sense than the Chirp, since you'd have to direct it to give you the info you want, not just what it might scrape and dump in your ear.

I suspect Zoey's nightmares and near-breakdown should set her off on her necessary spiritual journey to understand a) how she got her "power", b) what's the purpose of having it, and c) why she has it of all people. I'd add that it would be helpful to know she not the only one with special externally-given powers. So far, the show has glossed over all of this, but it can't be held off forever or it wouldn't be believable. I suspect Mo, as the show's moral center, will be the person to point Zoey in the right direction. I'm also guessing it will (and should) be Mo's pastor from episode S1 E4, since he threw 3 bulleyes in a row, and then Zoey threw one after not even getting near the dartboard with her first three tosses. HELLO! SYMBOLISM ANYONE?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, D Angel said:

Max was just a moderately paid software engineer -- in an expensive city.

What do you consider moderately paid? A software engineer at a big tech company would make well above average for San Francisco. 

[D Angel]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

What do you consider moderately paid? A software engineer at a big tech company would make well above average for San Francisco. 

Probably 100+ plus, but not likely enough to have money put away to start a business that has to rent a large space and purchase plenty of other stuff, and likely not take any salary for a while. Most people starting a capital-intensive business with low margins like their venture will have to endure would need a substantial bank loan to insure they could pay staff and suppliers. Hell, SPRQ Point is well established (not a start-up) and they have severe financial problems but at least some ongoing revenue from the watch and probably other products.

[Book Junkie]

On 1/21/2021 at 2:01 PM, HappyBerry said:

I saw "attractive older man" and immediately wondered when they were going to start trying to put Maggie in a new relationship. Fortunately, he mentioned knowing her husband just died....but I also saw signs they might decide to go there.

I hope they don't put Maggie in a new relationship this soon. It wouldn't ring true for Maggie's character. She was with Mitch for more than 30 years. I can see it being true for another character, but not Maggie. I lost my husband of 16 years in September, and I can see why people jump into relationships. The loneliness is just the worst when you lose your partner. However, I still don't see Maggie going there so soon. 

And while the man knows her husband just died, I'm here to tell you that doesn't register with some people. Even though it's only been 4 months now since I lost my husband, I've already had people speculating about if/when I'll remarry and a neighbor who has been pursuing me romantically since the 2 month mark. I don't really hold it against them (well, the neighbor I am, because that's just uncomfortable and I still feel married to my husband. I still wear my wedding rings.) because I think for people who aren't directly dealing with the loss on a daily basis, it seems like it was a lot longer ago that he passed and don't realize just how short of a time it's been until I remind them that it's only been 3, now 4 months. 

It's funny: all last season, I identified so much with Zoey since my mom is in hospice and in the final stages of a disease similar to Mitch's. The way Mitch would look with that blank face last season is exactly the way my mom looks. I cried at least once every episode. This season: I identify so much with Maggie and her grief.  I went/going through the work motivation issues and concentration as well, and I didn't even work with my husband, but he was still someone I could vent to and bounce things off of. Her song of "Someone You Loved" is spot on. Also, her dealing with all of the paperwork after a spouse dies. Ugh. It's always something, and I have an amazing support system, like Maggie.  Speaking from experience, I hope Maggie AND Zoey see a therapist. They are both dealing with way too much on their own.

[seacliffsal]

This episode made me wonder if they thought they would only be a one season show and really didn't have a plan in place for additional seasons.  The story lines seem more hit or miss than last year.  The new parents plot is just sort of there-they haven't really developed it except for bringing in the sister. Zoey and her relationship woes are really the same as the previous season.  The workplace stories are a mess (HR would have been all over that workplace environment-especially as Tobin was representing the company itself in the softball stuff).  I get that life can be overwhelming, especially when grieving, but this season kind of seems all over the place.

[jrzy]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:38 PM, Dani said:

Alex Newell is gender non-conforming and prefers he/him. I’m assuming the same is true for Mo since the character is based heavily off of Alex. 

Thanks,  I wondered if the choice was the show's or the actors. That's good to know,  thank you.  

[possibilities]

On 1/21/2021 at 8:46 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I gave Simon a bit more of a pass on this during S1 because he told Zoey that Jessica was fed up with his grief and wanted him to just get over it,

Maybe Max should get together with Jessica!

 

On 1/21/2021 at 8:46 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Most adults have suffered some kind of loss so even if it wasn't the death of a parent, they can understand the general concept.

Joan was really supportive. We didn't see it as much this season because she left the show, but she was a good friend to Zoey about this situation last season, too.

 

[bros402]

10 hours ago, D Angel said:

Quick hits:

Zoey & Max didn't "break up" in the traditional sense. They paused their nascent romantic relationship to let Zoey work out her personal stuff. Zoey not sleeping and not knowing why, on top of her experiences that a trained medical professional would likley describe as schizophrenia, is enough to send anyone toward a mental breakdown. I suspect we'll see Max & Zoey maintain a close relationship but without romantic entanglements, and neither will be looking for other opportunities either. They are around 30 after all.

I miss Howie and Joan, and George and Jenna are not engaging replacements for recurring characters. It's nice to see Maggie rebuilding her life and I suppose if Jenna is Maggie's muse, that's as good a place to shuttle her as anyone.

My wish for the SPRQ Point plot line (are your listening showrunners?): Bring back Howie's deaf daughter (forgot her name) and Zoey leads an effort to move SPRQ Point toward assistive technologies, which can help stabilize the company. Then bring back Howie as a consultant. Makes a lot more sense than the Chirp, since you'd have to direct it to give you the info you want, not just what it might scrape and dump in your ear.

I suspect Zoey's nightmares and near-breakdown should set her off on her necessary spiritual journey to understand a) how she got her "power", b) what's the purpose of having it, and c) why she has it of all people. I'd add that it would be helpful to know she not the only one with special externally-given powers. So far, the show has glossed over all of this, but it can't be held off forever or it wouldn't be believable. I suspect Mo, as the show's moral center, will be the person to point Zoey in the right direction. I'm also guessing it will (and should) be Mo's pastor from episode S1 E4, since he threw 3 bulleyes in a row, and then Zoey threw one after not even getting near the dartboard with her first three tosses. HELLO! SYMBOLISM ANYONE?

Yes, they need to bring back Abigail, she was so great - and she had one of the best music numbers of the show so far (Fight Song).

I keep seeing George as Guillermo from What We Do In The Shadows. I keep expecting him to slip up and say "master"

I hope Zoey does some exploration, but not too much.

8 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

This episode made me wonder if they thought they would only be a one season show and really didn't have a plan in place for additional seasons.  The story lines seem more hit or miss than last year.  The new parents plot is just sort of there-they haven't really developed it except for bringing in the sister. Zoey and her relationship woes are really the same as the previous season.  The workplace stories are a mess (HR would have been all over that workplace environment-especially as Tobin was representing the company itself in the softball stuff).  I get that life can be overwhelming, especially when grieving, but this season kind of seems all over the place.

I mean I think most of us were expecting this to be a one and done too. The first season, I think, was most likely based on the showrunner's experience with losing his father to this disease - and now he is diverging more from it (as he would have to). This episode was probably the weakest so far, but I have faith in them to right the ship

[ciubecca98]

On 1/22/2021 at 1:17 AM, GeorgiaRai said:

I agree with all of this, with one minor nitpick:  I don't think Max's "Say Something" was insensitive. I thought his feelings were understandable, and (as far as he knew) he was just processing them internally. 

On another note, I don't think it was selfish of him to ask Zoey "is it me?"  It would've seemed more selfish if it hadn't occurred to him that he might be a source of some of her angst. And besides...he was kinda right, wasn't he?

Yes, for Zoey, Max is a problem (but not Simon of course), and the way I see it ... the fact that he denied (what he sang to him in the eighth episode but which he admitted to Simon) and how  things went, Max was a way to not deal with the pain, and the fact that she can't open up to who she calls her best friend but once again she opened up smoothly with Simon ... she says she actually wants  still him !!!! (after all for the whole first season there was only Simon)

[rlc]

I wish they had never made Zoey and Max a couple. He was so needy and entitled with Zoey in season one, and I cannot forget that. Max also had zero business opening a restaurant if he doesn’t understand how liquor licenses work. I know he’s a fictional character, but I’m simply not a fan.

Loved the choreography this episode. It felt even more Mandy Moore-ish than usual.

[Max74]

Since I preferred not to look at her ... Max knows that Zoey didn't open up to him but she did it to Simon?  thanks

[wonderwoman]

On 1/23/2021 at 1:48 AM, bros402 said:

On 1/22/2021 at 5:36 PM, seacliffsal said:

This episode made me wonder if they thought they would only be a one season show and really didn't have a plan in place for additional seasons.  The story lines seem more hit or miss than last year.  The new parents plot is just sort of there-they haven't really developed it except for bringing in the sister. Zoey and her relationship woes are really the same as the previous season.  The workplace stories are a mess (HR would have been all over that workplace environment-especially as Tobin was representing the company itself in the softball stuff).  I get that life can be overwhelming, especially when grieving, but this season kind of seems all over the place.

I mean I think most of us were expecting this to be a one and done too. The first season, I think, was most likely based on the showrunner's experience with losing his father to this disease - and now he is diverging more from it (as he would have to). This episode was probably the weakest so far, but I have faith in them to right the shi

felling the same way. peter gallagher’s absence left a big whole for the characters, but in the show itself. right now, there’s no joy for any character. while watching unrelieved grief play out is not as draining as experiencing grief, it does take its toll of the viewer over time.

[Guest]

On 1/22/2021 at 2:36 PM, seacliffsal said:

This episode made me wonder if they thought they would only be a one season show and really didn't have a plan in place for additional seasons.  The story lines seem more hit or miss than last year.  The new parents plot is just sort of there-they haven't really developed it except for bringing in the sister. Zoey and her relationship woes are really the same as the previous season.  The workplace stories are a mess (HR would have been all over that workplace environment-especially as Tobin was representing the company itself in the softball stuff).  I get that life can be overwhelming, especially when grieving, but this season kind of seems all over the place.

I agree. It feels like the show doesn’t know what it is anymore. Now it feels like part workplace comedy and part family drama. I miss Zoey’s powers pushing her to help people and better understand herself. It felt who she heard had a purpose, like when she was haunted by “Satisfaction” until she tried to help Joan. Now her powers feel random and really gimmicky. 

[Trini]

Almost all the storylines feel like a natural progression to me. The one part where they really seem to be flailing is the SPRQPoint stuff.

Does anyone know how many episodes this season will be? I assume it's another 12 (13?). They are kind of moving quickly because of the short amount of time they have (see: Zoey and Max getting together and breaking up so soon), so I'm assuming if there's anything more to Zoey and Simon it'll be over with within the next two episodes.
 

On 1/22/2021 at 10:55 PM, possibilities said:

Joan was really supportive. We didn't see it as much this season because she left the show, but she was a good friend to Zoey about this situation last season, too.

I'd love if they could bring another female friend and/or mentor for Zoey. I was kinda 'meh' about Joan, but she did leave a hole that they haven't quite filled yet.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Almost all the storylines feel like a natural progression to me. The one part where they really seem to be flailing is the SPRQPoint stuff.

Does anyone know how many episodes this season will be? I assume it's another 12 (13?). They are kind of moving quickly because of the short amount of time they have (see: Zoey and Max getting together and breaking up so soon), so I'm assuming if there's anything more to Zoey and Simon it'll be over with within the next two episodes.

According to wikipedia, the first season was 12, but the season two section so far only has five listed.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

felling the same way. peter gallagher’s absence left a big whole for the characters, but in the show itself. right now, there’s no joy for any character. while watching unrelieved grief play out is not as draining as experiencing grief, it does take its toll of the viewer over time.

There's joy in different ways.

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Almost all the storylines feel like a natural progression to me. The one part where they really seem to be flailing is the SPRQPoint stuff.

Does anyone know how many episodes this season will be? I assume it's another 12 (13?). They are kind of moving quickly because of the short amount of time they have (see: Zoey and Max getting together and breaking up so soon), so I'm assuming if there's anything more to Zoey and Simon it'll be over with within the next two episodes.
 

I'd love if they could bring another female friend and/or mentor for Zoey. I was kinda 'meh' about Joan, but she did leave a hole that they haven't quite filled yet.

The storylines do feel pretty natural - the SPRQPoint storyline just feels weird.

Episode order, last I remember reading from Deadline was that it was rumored to be a 13 episode order - https://deadline.com/2020/06/zoeys-extraordinary-playlist-renewed-season-2-nbc-1202924053/

I guess they never announced the full order? But I am guessing at least 8-10, since who knows, some episodes might be cut due to COVID, but it is doing okay in ratings.

Edited January 25, 2021 by bros402

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Nowhere to Run:

Simon comforts Zoey after a rough night:

Say Something:

 

[snarktini]

On 1/19/2021 at 7:07 PM, chaifan said:

I really didn't like Hard Knock Life because thinking that these guys really think they're treated as bad as orphans during the Great Depression makes every single one of them an absolute ass.  I can handle Tobin as the prototypical bro, but not all of them.

This whole storyline is pissing me off. I can't believe her takeaway from HKL was that she should apologize and be nicer. Nope! It should have been that they are unbelievably entitled and whiny and she needs to take control of the situation. When Tobin was being an ass about women on the team, she corrected him but didn't tell him it should never have happened. Simply saying "everyone will be included and that's final" doesn't solve the ongoing problem of Tobin being actively sexist and bro-y. He should not call them girls. Women should be invited. He doesn't get to pout about it. And if he can't change his attitude and stop doing these things, he needs to go.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, snarktini said:

This whole storyline is pissing me off. I can't believe her takeaway from HKL was that she should apologize and be nicer. Nope! It should have been that they are unbelievably entitled and whiny and she needs to take control of the situation. When Tobin was being an ass about women on the team, she corrected him but didn't tell him it should never have happened. Simply saying "everyone will be included and that's final" doesn't solve the ongoing problem of Tobin being actively sexist and bro-y. He should not call them girls. Women should be invited. He doesn't get to pout about it. And if he can't change his attitude and stop doing these things, he needs to go.

Yeah, they made Tobin a bit more bro-y than he was last season - even at his worst, he wasn't this childish.

It could be a reflection of Leif's leadership skills, though. These people are acting like this because of lax leadership - so Zoey needs to address that.

[possibilities]

Maybe Leif needs to be replaced. he was happier as one of the bros. Make one of the new, female programmers he team leader. The one who snarked on the possibility of nut punching last week. 

[ciubecca98]

I just looked at the last few minutes and with that ... now what?  and the way they looked at each other it seemed more like a goodbye than a pause, or fear that they will not see each other for a while since they no longer work together and Simon is in the way😢

[D Angel]

2 hours ago, ciubecca98 said:

I just looked at the last few minutes and with that ... now what?  and the way they looked at each other it seemed more like a goodbye than a pause, or fear that they will not see each other for a while since they no longer work together and Simon is in the way😢

The promo has Zoey back to interacting with Mo -- missing from her life for months since she lived with her mother -- which can only be a good thing for her. It looks like after being close to a breakdown, Zoey's going to try to find herself again and perhaps put an end to her self-torture.

Here's the problem with the entire SPRQ Point plot line: What's the (SPRQ) point of it all? Silly, defective products for spoiled millenials in a copy run by a white-collar criminal with overrun by lazy but capable people who could do more with their lives? Plus, the company's in financial trouble and seemingly sinking fast if they can't even pay for a cereal bar. Instead of Max starting his own thing, it would be much more interesting for Zoey to start her own thing. That happens all the time in tech.

[Notwisconsin]

It's all about the gimmick now. That show was actually about Zoey's dad, and how his demise effected Zoey and her mom. It was all about the process of death. But here, they've not been able to figure out how to get past it. the characters are becoming more and more unlikeable.

I just hope that they figure out how to to focus on life going on, and by the end of the season, there's a new romance and Max and Mo are gone. The latter is basically a shit.

[Simba122504]

On 1/19/2021 at 9:00 PM, funnygirl said:

I would've preferred tptb didn't rush Zoey and Max together just to break them up after two episodes. Their connection deserves more than that. And it's going to be highly annoying when - not if - Zoey hooks up with Simon. Talk about getting to have your cake and eat it too… 

I'm like what does Simon and Zoey have in common other than dead fathers?  Relationships are not supposed to be heavy 247. A healthy relationship is serious and light.