Season 3 Discussion

[phoenics]

What an incredibly satisfying season!  It definitely started off slow and a little wandering but wow... I cheered so hard at the end when Daniel showed up to immobilize Kreese and then at the very end when all my fave kids were back together united with Daniel and Johnny.  I might have ugly cried.

Johnny looked so nice in his Stayin Alive suit, awwww.

That Ali Mills arc was brilliant and gosh she was just like this perfect little fairy angle that came to sprinkle closure, encouragement, calm, unity and motivation all at once to everyone who needed it.  Man.  I loved that arc with her and Johnny and was halfway shipping it, even if I liked Johnny and Miguel's mom.

I want to like Robby and I understand how he ended up with Kreese, but I feel so badly for Johnny.  William Zabka has this way of making his face go all tortured sad yet clad in armor and it just turns me into a puddle.  I want to suit up and fight next to him but also cuddle him, IDK, lol.  He's done that since the pilot and every time he does it ... gahhh Johnny!  I was never ever into bad boys as a teenager so this is all very disconcerting to me, lol.

And can we talk about Elisabeth Shue looking AMAZING at 57?!  She's aging like a black woman - extremely well!

The house fight pissed me off - mostly because I was so angry with the cobra kai kids breaking and entering into someone's home.  Tori is SO lucky she's not dealing with kids who know their own privilege because her ass would have been in prison for real.  All of the Cobra Kai kids would've.  No way you can do that to some somewhat wealthy kids and be literally on probation and come out unscathed.

So I guess the couples have settled into Miguel/Sam and Tori/Robby.  I kinda feel like the final fight is going to be Sam and Tori in next year's tournament.

 

ETA:  OMG how could I forget Daniel's trip to Japan and seeing Kumiko and Chozen?!  So so satisfying.  And so satisfying to see it come around for Daniel vs Kreese.  

ETA:  AAargh - also how could I forget the reverse Johnny-Ali storyline with them basically doing what Daniel and Ali did on their date and then the club thing with the spaghetti and white jacket, etc.. that Daniel had with Johnny wearing the same thing... but the mess not happening, thankfully.  Again the nostalgia was perfect and then Ali tying things up in the perfect nostalgic happy bow was *chef's kiss*

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by phoenics

[Stats Queen]

14 minutes ago, phoenics said:

And can we talk about Elisabeth Shue looking AMAZING at 57?!  She's aging like a black woman - extremely well!

She looks beautiful and naturally aging, which is a rare with celebrities these days.

[phoenics]

Also - I was so confused when people kept mentioning Peyton List - because I thought that was the actress from The Tomorrow People and I was like, she's much older!  Now I realize there are two actresses named Peyton List.  The elder one is gonna be soon eclipsed by the younger one by the looks of it because wow - she killed it this season.

[blackdahlia]

On 1/3/2021 at 12:31 PM, wmdekooning said:

That aside, Johnny was going NOWHERE on a computer running Windows XP. He might be able to Google, but Facebook would not allow a user to access with an unsecured/outdated operating system.

 

Appreciate the gag though...

I have a desktop with Windows XP and I can get on Facebook and besides you always spoof the useragent.

[blackdahlia]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:15 PM, benteen said:

What I appreciated about this series is it is willing to embrace the silliness elements of this franchise (and there are a lot of them).  It has a lot of heart and really cares about the characters.  I thought Season 3 was great.

I liked the Kreese flashbacks although it didn't make my sympathize with him at all.  I do appreciate that they do try to add layers to everyone, even those who don't deserve it, like Kreese.  Of course they gave him a wacky 80s movie era backstory, which again totally works for this show.

Johnny and Miguel are definitely the heavy hitters of this cast as well as with the characters.  Johnny still makes me laugh, like when he brushes off rehab.

I enjoyed Daniel's trip to Japan and thought he had a legitimate badass moments when he rescued Johnny at the end from Kreese.

The show is great with keeping Mr. Miyagi a part of it even with Pat Morita's death.  His letter about Daniel was very Miyagi and very touching.  I'm glad that he got to know Sam.  LOL that even he couldn't be bothered to mention Daniel's son.

I laughed at how they wrote off Stingray's character.  Miss Aisha though, I liked her friendship/sibling-like relationship with Miguel.  

Great action as always.  Hawk was a total ass throughout most of this season but I found that I couldn't hate him.

Peyton List was good but I couldn't keep a straight face at those ridiculous facial expressions she was making in the last episode.  I call that look The Tori Spelling.

The return of Elizabeth Shue was great and things resolved themselves the way I was hoping they would.

Very much looking forward to Season 4.  Though it really feels like they are setting up for a final season.

I watched all of Season 3 but I must have missed it somehow. How exactly did they write off Stingray?

[DeeDee79]

6 hours ago, blackdahlia said:

I watched all of Season 3 but I must have missed it somehow. How exactly did they write off Stingray?

Because of his actions during the school fight he was put on probation and given a restraining order prohibiting him from going within 500 feet of any child. They mentioned it at the school board meeting in the 1st episode of season 3. Since he's the only adult besides Kreese at Cobra Kai he more than likely had to drop out. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by DeeDee79

[VCRTracking]

I enjoy that the show is basically "GLEE but with karate instead of singing". Another show comparison I realized recently is the events of the first three movies are like what Robert's Rebellion was to Game of Thrones.

Edited January 21, 2021 by VCRTracking

[marinw]

I fear it will be some time before we see Season 4-all that fighting is hard to do with COVID requirements. Unless they do nothing but katas and drills, which isn't what this show is mostly about.

Netflix has sent Hillary Swank to Mars on what may be the most badly-designed spaceship in TV History. I would love to see her return, maybe as a Sensei of another dojo.

[Perfect Xero]

On 1/2/2021 at 6:40 PM, RunningMarket said:

I loved it. Absolutely loved it. Is it without its problems or potential plot holes? Of course not. But IMHO, it was fantastic and I immediately wanted season 4. Some of the lines were golden, including:

• I thought you were the bully?! (random guy)
• I don't understand why everyone in the Valley is so big on karate. (Councilwom - uh - person)
• So your wang can still get the tang! (Johnny)

My one main issue is Tory. The way she is presented, her entire MO is that she doesn't like Sam because, reasons? Because Sam is wealthier than her? Because Sam and her dated the same guy? Good luck in life Tory, if you're always going to be pissed off because someone has it better than you. Of all the Cobras, she's the one I would actually be concerned about - she needs professional help for her anger. And not the kind karate can bring you.

While she took it over the top later, Tory's dislike of Sam stems from Sam wrongly accusing Tory of stealing her mom's wallet at the beach club, then grabbing Tory when she tried to walk away.

It's pretty neat since that scene is a fairly subtle mirror to the start of hostilities between Johnny and Daniel at the beach in KK, except this time it pretty blatantly was the LaRusso who picked a fight with the blonde Cobra Kai.

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:15 PM, benteen said:

Hawk was a total ass throughout most of this season but I found that I couldn't hate him.

This is something the writers handle very well.  Showing why people have become "good guys" or "bad guys".   Even when Hawk is over the top, all you have to do is re-watch the scene where he is bullied in the library and you understand him again.

On 1/21/2021 at 7:24 PM, Perfect Xero said:

It's pretty neat since that scene is a fairly subtle mirror to the start of hostilities between Johnny and Daniel at the beach in KK, except this time it pretty blatantly was the LaRusso who picked a fight with the blonde Cobra Kai.

Again, the subtlety of showing how people chose to take sides.  When we finished watching Karate Kid back in the day, we left the theater knowing full well that the good guys won and beat the bad guys.  This series does a great job of saying,  "Not so fast.  Let's think about this from a different perspective."

 

[Kate47]

Tbh I loved that Kreese had the 411 on Miguel and Sam hooking up again. I hope it wasn't Robby who told him and instead he's just out there creeping on all the new teenage gossip.

[DeeDee79]

25 minutes ago, Kate47 said:

Tbh I loved that Kreese had the 411 on Miguel and Sam hooking up again. I hope it wasn't Robby who told him and instead he's just out there creeping on all the new teenage gossip.

I initially thought that Robby was the one that told since he saw them together but now I'm not sure now because he looked almost as stunned Tory. Even though I despise Kreese I do have to admit that the way he revealed the info knowing exactly who would be the most affected by the news did make me laugh.

[TheLastKidPicked]

18 hours ago, Kate47 said:

Tbh I loved that Kreese had the 411 on Miguel and Sam hooking up again. I hope it wasn't Robby who told him and instead he's just out there creeping on all the new teenage gossip.

Ha!  That was a clever observation.

I think they are going for a vibe of,  "He knows things that nobody else knows."

To put a finer point on it, wouldn't it be cool for the kids to wonder,  "He's not connected by any kind of social media.  How can he know all of this stuff?"

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by TheLastKidPicked

[paramitch]

I bingewatched the whole thing the past week or so, and thought overall that it was a fun, entertaining, and slightly silly homage that really expanded on the original movies in a respectful way. I'm grateful for it, if nothing else, for the seriously terrific performance by William Zabka, who was so good (and underrated) as Johnny in the original Karate Kid movie. But this show has definitely shown us his range and ability to play an array of emotions (and the comedy has been laugh-out-loud funny). I was delighted that season 3 finally shaved some rough edges off Johnny (and his rivalry with Daniel) and allowed the two to begin to become friends. 

That said, I have to admit I still had to turn my brain off a bit, as I don't quite buy the premise that sleek, classist, rich-kid bully Johnny from the original movie ended up a blue-collar loser so broke and mentally slow that he has never booted up a computer, accessed the Internet, used a cell phone, or used social media? I mean, the show made this worth it anyway, because all of the montages relating to these items with Johnny were pure gold, especially as acted by Zabka, and I laughed myself silly over most. But -- really? And we saw it again this season, when he again had difficulty just powering up the laptop. Just... seriously?? BUT -- so cute.

Onward! One of the draws of the original Karate Kid movie, which was beautifully written by Robert Mark Kamen (a classic screenplay for anyone who wants to learn screenwriting), was its sincerity. Everyone seems to wear their hearts on their sleeves (even Johnny, in the end). So I also love how the show has paid respectful homage to the original movie, from the characters (especially Mr. Miyagi) to the wonderful score by Bill Conti.

And since Daniel's arc has been a  big topic so far, especially in "Cobra Kai" (something I think season 3 did improve) -- I think it's important to point out that Daniel in the original movie is seriously one of the sweetest movie teens ever. He immediately goes and gets a bowl of water for the old lady's dog minutes after moving into the apartment complex. He's kind to Freddie (who never shows up again after turning into a dickwad in the beach party scene). And beyond the occasional and understandable exhibition of frustration at his bullying, he's kind to everyone he meets, and is respectful and appreciative of Mr. Miyagi's support. He downplays his bullying to mom and Ally. Aside from his jealousy around the country club moment (and momentary unfairness toward Ally -- which he totally deserves to be called out on) -- he's mostly a really nice kid. He wins the championship, and Johnny (weeping) apologizes, and Daniel instantly, openly forgives him, literally saying, "That's okay!" Etc. So Daniel has some banked goodwill from me -- I still care about him. I still see the sweet kid there. He's just coasted a bit and become privileged/insulated without realizing it.

I'm divided on Season 3. I hated the involvement of Kreese (a little goes a long, loooong way, and he's so cartoonishly evil), and I've really hated the escalation of the violence among the kids (including the S2 finale), because it simply continues to stretch believability. The school riot was terrible, but then this season we had multiple group encounters that were flat-out felonies. As others have pointed out, beyond the thefts, public bullying, big fight, and arm-breaking previously, the moment the Cobra Kais showed up to utterly trash the Miyagi dojo, the cops should have been called. The gang committed a full sheet of invasions, assaults, thefts, destruction, etc. Just to a ridiculous degree. I have never fast-forwarded a show in my life but I was tempted here.

I liked a lot here though, still. I liked Sam's journey -- and her PTSD after fighting Tory. It was a welcome change to see one of the kids deal with the trauma and aftermath of violence -- same with Miguel. And Johnny's journey this season continued to be truly moving and interesting, and for the first time on the show, I would say the same of Daniel's journey too -- I loved his journey to Okinawa, and the reversals and subtleties for the returning characters there.

On the "pros" side for me as far as S3, I was glad Hawk finally fricking realized what a horrific bully and sadist he had become, but his journey was pretty disturbing still. I did enjoy many of the other kids, as well, although I did miss Shea too. I really loved seeing Miguel continue his journey back to being a nicer kid (not the dickwad who won S1), and I thought it was believably done. I admit that his "therapy" sessions with Johnny made me cringe (even while laughing) since they were terribly disturbing in terms of actual reality -- any spinal patient with those concrete falls would have needed hospital visits after each, and worse, Johnny's "therapies" would have simply exacerbated those injuries. Aghgh. But since it turned out okay, fine, magic, I'll roll with it. And Johnny's ongoing "oops" reactions were frequently hilarious.

On the "cons" side this season, I hate Kreese, found his involvement utterly stupid and unbelievable, and especially hated how this further hijacked a sweet retro-fueled show into something even more violent and mean-spirited. His flashbacks were ridiculous and badly filmed and (worse) a waste of time and attention that could have been spent on the kids we were barely getting to know.

Meanwhile, the writing was often fun and exciting, but just as often, seriously bad. The dialogue for the teenagers is constantly iffy and doesn't always sound remotely convincing, and the arcs for Miguel and Robbie are almost laughably interchangeable because they don't seem to rely on character growth at all. Season 1, Miguel started as a nice kid, then became almost laughably jealous, sexist, and cruel by the S1 finale -- then despite two full seasons of lovely, thoughtful exploration and mentorship from Daniel, in S2 finale Robbie flips a switch and turns homicidal, and then spends S3 as the exact same unrepentant, sexist bully that Miguel once was.

Most of all: While I was happy to see Miguel become a calmer, kinder person again (and he's among the best-acted kids), I just do not believe the Robbie of two full seasons of Daniel-mentoring turning into such a massive douche to the point that he would for a single moment follow Kreese or his teachings. Just gah. I also felt nothing for Tory and think she's terribly written -- for me she's irredeemable after we saw her screaming happily for the arm-breaking.

I was thrilled by the final few minutes, however -- it was lovely to see Daniel defend Johnny (KREESE SHOULD BE IN JAIL), and I loved seeing both Johnny and Daniel combine their dojos and bow to one another in near-friendship.

I though S3 was weaker than 2 slightly because of the heavyhanded Kreese stuff and over the top Cobra Kai bullies, but I did love several storylines and moments, love Amanda (and her relationship with Daniel), loved Daniel's trip to Okinawa, and enjoyed all the Miyagi-do students.

And I absolutely adored Ally showing up in the finale. I always thought Elisabeth Shue was such a lovely and warm presence, and as someone who loved Ally's sweet, loyal character, I was always angry at the way Karate Kid II tossed her aside in a few mean-spirited sentences. It was great to have her retcon that here, to have a grownup and healing influence on Johnny (and Daniel), and loved her immediate rapport with Amanda. I was also surprised at how touched I was by her afternoon with Johnny, in which they both allowed themselves to return to childhood but also to forgive each other for the past while being honest about their current fears and worries.

I'm a little concerned about Kreese still being around (and I find it completely unbelievable), but I'm still in for Season 4. 

[methodwriter85]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:59 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

This is something the writers handle very well.  Showing why people have become "good guys" or "bad guys".   Even when Hawk is over the top, all you have to do is re-watch the scene where he is bullied in the library and you understand him again.

Jacob Bertrand is hands down the best cryer on this show. He looks like a kicked puppy when he cries. I'm surprised he hasn't been picked up yet for "angsty sensitive guy" indie dramas that would make full use of his ability in the vein of Lucas Hedges or Timothee Chalamet movies. I guess he's not tall enough.

The show was pretty clear that Hawk was pretty miserable this entire season so it wasn't surprising he went back to his roots. Being a Cobra wasn't fun anymore and he sold the moment where he just kind of looked around the fight tableau going, "What the hell am I doing? These guys are my friends and I'm beating them up with the guy who kicked the shit out of Miguel?" 

[CB-LXX]

A lot of good discussion on this thread. I just wanted to add a few of my own thoughts.

I'm only really familiar with Karate Kid 1 & 2 (with 2 being my favorite). I've seen the other two (and also the Jackie Chan/Jaden Smith one, but I guess that one isn't canon), but they don't hold a special place in my memories the way the first two do.

I'm trying to place my thoughts about Daniel and Johnny. 1st and 2nd seasons I see them as having some major growing up to do and season 3 them finally just starting to get there. Although Daniel has gone on to lead a successful, prosperous life, in a way had gone on to be the bigger asshole (him getting the landlord to raise the rent, trying to prevent CK's admission into the tournament--aligning himself with the belief that people can't change, and also assuming the current generation of kids is just like his generation, without knowing anything about them--but since this is season 3 discussion, no need for me to go further). It at least seems like he's starting to have some growth in that department. Johnny on the other hand is the boy who never grew up. He didn't know how to be a dad, he understood nothing about technology (my older brother who is a couple of years older than WZ is kind of like that when it comes to technology, so the situation is almost kind of funny to me) and he starts off making the same mistakes he did in his youth.

I'm not going to spend much time talking about the adults though, because everything that's already been said about them in this post are mostly my own thoughts as well (a mixed bag). I have to say that I am stoked that the two of them finally teamed up. It's the only way they have a hairballs' chance in hell of defeating Kreese. Oh, Johnny's handling of Miguel and "teaching" him how to walk again. That was laughable. How I guess he just thought that Miguel's in ability to walk or feel his legs could be cured simply be him just wanting to. Especially right after he had surgery. Anyway, that's enough about the grown-ups.

Oops I lied, one more adult mention... Kreese, there's not a single thing in his backstory that makes me feel sympathetic to the man he was in KK1 nor to the man he is now. I wish they hadn't even wasted any time on it, or that they'd shown he was always a bully from the start (and why didn't they just have Martin Kove's son play a younger version of him from the start--heck, I thought he was a young Kreese when I first saw him and I had no idea it was actually MK's son). The man is too far gone to be redeemable.

Tory also fails to garner any sympathy for me either, because although her mother may be sick/dying and she may need to work two jobs (in addition to going to school) to pay for rent, again, there's nothing to justify her behavior in any of this. She is just a girl who chose to be mean. When she tells Robby "at least I know how to be true to myself," I kind of thought to myself "Really?" Would her very ill mother want to see her behaving the way she has been? I think not.

I also fail to have any sympathy for Hawk either, for the simple fact in that he turned being bullied into bullying his own peers and friends (the friends he had when he was merely Eli). Bravo for him learning to stand up and defend himself, but at what cost? Yes, he finally came to his senses, but I think that was because he finally got to face one of past aggressors and beat him to a pulp. I know many think it was because he learned the error of his ways (and perhaps that is still true), but I think it largely had to do with him facing his demons. I hope he can be trustworthy.

The one person I do somewhat feel sorry for is Robby and I can kind of see how he's allowing himself to be influenced by Kreese. Not only was he pretty much abandoned by his own father, his mother wasn't really there for him either (though he seemed to have no trouble forgiving her), and even Daniel failed him. Kreese is feeding him all of these lines, it's just the perfect setup. However, I hope he comes to his senses, although I doubt that will happen until the end of season 4.

My only thought about that fight in the last episode (in addition to what's already been said) is that did not one of them think to themselves "umm, we're in someone's home, damaging someone's home..." Am I showing my age here? I'm not thinking about the kids injuring each other (because they got themselves into it), I'm thinking of them willfully damaging someone's personal property.

I'm a jumble of thoughts here, but hard for me to be cohesive when discussing an entire season of episodes.

[marinw]

23 minutes ago, Kenadi O said:

I'm a jumble of thoughts here, but hard for me to be cohesive when discussing an entire season of episodes.

You did fine.😀  Let's hope that next season we get individual episode threads.

[TrininisaScorp]

Y'all are killing it on this thread.  I liked all the things!  I'm in heavy agreement with many thoughts.  I am a latecomer to the show and binged all the seasons in January/early Feb.  Man, what was I waiting for?!

Major thoughts:

In general, this show is way better than it has any real right to be.  It's cheesy, melodramatic, and the fights are so crazy in how ubiquitous they are, but somehow it works.  I love these ppl, and I love the cheesy goodness.  And, I'm shocked by how well the humor works.

While Daniel has forgotten some of "the struggle", I don't think he has truly been the bad guy.  He's made some petty ass decisions and done some dumb things that he rightfully should be called out for, but he isn't fundamentally wrong, IMO:  Cobra Kai (the Kreese version) is really bad for these kids.  He didn't know that Johnny had a different approach, but he remembered the guy that was the leader of Kreese's world and the s1 finale showed that "no mercy" was not good for Miguel or Hawk.

William Zabka is a revelation.  Man, he kills every scene he in in.  Excellent chemistry with the adults.  Excellent care/harshness with the kids.  He makes Johnny someone you want to root for, even when he's been a self destructive douche.  Johnny's whole vibe isn't my thing, but I think I have a small fictional crush!  Crazy!  I root for Carmen and Johnny!

I hated the push pull of the Daniel/Johnny relationship most season...they would find common ground and then something small that could easily be resolved would fuck it up.  Cmon, guys.  Adult.  Geez.  I loved the cop motif (to Motley Crue's sublime Kickstart My Heart) when looking for Robby.   That did, however, make Ali showing up all that much sweeter. I loved that everyone apologized to everyone, and some of the old hurts can truly start to heal. I also continue to appreciate Daniel's wife...she seems like a cool chick who gives the audience a bit of perspective wink "these are two grown men fighting about karate dojos". 

With the kids, I'm compelled by both Miguel and Robby for different reasons.  With Miguel, I find that his core is very much like KK1 Daniel - he's sweet, kind hearted, but has a chip on his shoulder for what he's dealing with, and I can't be mad at him.  I appreciate seeing his journey back from that terrible injury to being the Miguel we love.  I appreciated his scenes with Daniel; maybe the rest of the adults are screwed up, but Miguel is the only one who has heard both sides of the Daniel/Johnny saga from both men.  Xolo infuses such sincerity and sweetness into Miguel.  With Robby, I feel for his pain, but all of that "tough" hides a very sensitive soul. He's hurt by his parents over and over.  He is mentored by Daniel and falls for Sam at the same time, so he clearly feels like the rug is pulled out from him when he is left in juvie.  And Kreese is good at preying on young souls in need and pain, so that's what happened here.  I hope we get Robby seeing that Kreese is a huge jerk (b/c Kreese eventually always shows his true colors). Tanner gives Robby such sensitivity and pain, and that pain looks like anger sometimes. 

I struggle with Sam and Tory.  Sam as a character is a Herculean task and the writers don't do her favors...she is caught in the teen love triangle, she is the original protagonist's kid, and she makes some questionable decisions in her own pain.  I like her and root for her, but sometimes I think "oh, baby, what is you doing?!"  With Tory, I feel for her backstory, but do not believe it in any way justifies her terrible, shitty, sadistic behavior.  From the S2 finale thru now, she seems to relish in poor decisions and taking pleasure in other's pain b/c she is also in pain.  I don't know that the actress is strong enough, IMO, to carry that for me.   And, please, don't put her and Robby together.  What a gd mess that would be. 

I like Demetri and Hawk.  I hope Hawk stays on the good side of things.  My heart broke for the abuse he suffered for his physical lip issue and his introversion. Him turning that into bullying and aggression was so not cool. 

Kreese is the worst.  I know he's meant to be, but, lord, the mustache twirling almost omnipotent character feels very 80s. I think that's the point, but where does he go from here.  

Like many of you, I look at the breaking and entering and destruction of property (I hope these ppl have a glass guy that gives a volume discount) as a 38 yr old woman with bills, a job, a mortgage, and an air fryer with a level of Karen like outrage.  "Someone?  Call the authorities right away!"  That last fight in the LaRusso house was brutal.  Fuck them Cobra Kai kids, all y'all going to jail. WTF. 

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:45 AM, paramitch said:

That said, I have to admit I still had to turn my brain off a bit, as I don't quite buy the premise that sleek, classist, rich-kid bully Johnny from the original movie ended up a blue-collar loser so broke and mentally slow that he has never booted up a computer, accessed the Internet, used a cell phone, or used social media? I mean, the show made this worth it anyway, because all of the montages relating to these items with Johnny were pure gold, especially as acted by Zabka, and I laughed myself silly over most. But -- really? And we saw it again this season, when he again had difficulty just powering up the laptop. Just... seriously?? BUT -- so cute.

 

Very interesting observation, and I can help explain it a bit, because some of my friends are the same way.  It's not that Johnny is too dumb to understand a computer.  It's that Johnny has simply checked out.  It would be torture for him to go online and see how well everybody is doing while he is stuck in a rut.  Much easier to ignore all of that and try to keep living in the 80's.

That is a bit depressing, but the fun payoff is that once Johnny wants to join the world again, he is a step behind and he's fun to watch as he tries to finally get up to speed on the technology.  

On 2/7/2021 at 6:05 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Jacob Bertrand is hands down the best cryer on this show. He looks like a kicked puppy when he cries. I'm surprised he hasn't been picked up yet for "angsty sensitive guy" indie dramas that would make full use of his ability in the vein of Lucas Hedges or Timothee Chalamet movies. I guess he's not tall enough.

Jacob seems like he will grow into an amazing and successful actor.  And we can all say,  "We knew him when."

 

[DoctorAtomic]

12 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

From the S2 finale thru now, she seems to relish in poor decisions and taking pleasure in other's pain b/c she is also in pain. 

TV can tend to over write. Not everything needs a huge backstory. You could easily have Tory working a lot to take care of her mother and brother. Being a little more life worn, you could see her being really over a lot of the teen bs, causing conflict. 

 

2 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

It's that Johnny has simply checked out.  It would be torture for him to go online and see how well everybody is doing while he is stuck in a rut.  Much easier to ignore all of that and try to keep living in the 80's.

I think that's fair, but the show kind of cheated on that. It's a hard buy-in that one karate match led to all this. Now, the 'peaked in high school', while tropey, isn't untrue irl. I think they could have done a little more there. I can certainly buy becoming a sensei pulls him out of that. 

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

TV can tend to over write. Not everything needs a huge backstory. You could easily have Tory working a lot to take care of her mother and brother. Being a little more life worn, you could see her being really over a lot of the teen bs, causing conflict. 

 

I think that's fair, but the show kind of cheated on that. It's a hard buy-in that one karate match led to all this. Now, the 'peaked in high school', while tropey, isn't untrue irl. I think they could have done a little more there. I can certainly buy becoming a sensei pulls him out of that. 

It wasn't the Karate match itself as much as it was the years of abuse from Kreese and his stepfather that led to this. The Karate match triggered the spiral for Johnny because being the best at Karate and being a bullying jerk were the things he used to to cope and prop up his self esteem, once he stopped doing those things he didn't have an outlet left.

[DoctorAtomic]

No, I know, but he's in his 50s. Pointing the finger is a little much. I'm still watching the show, so I could buy in, but you have to admit it's a little silly. Given his stepfather's wealth, he could have gone to college and forgotten about it all too. But we wouldn't have a show. 

[Raja]

46 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

No, I know, but he's in his 50s. Pointing the finger is a little much. I'm still watching the show, so I could buy in, but you have to admit it's a little silly. Given his stepfather's wealth, he could have gone to college and forgotten about it all too. But we wouldn't have a show. 

He is Al Bundy  who however lost his last match instead of winning. Johnny won't be the last person who went backwards from the heights his elder generation reached. Some make that ultimate fall later in life.

[TheLastKidPicked]

34 minutes ago, Raja said:

He is Al Bundy . . . 

I wondered if anybody else would make that connection.  

[magicdog]

Live!! Several cast members of KK and CK doing fundraiser zoom interview.

 

Quote

 

Today's interview includes (with some SPECIAL guests showing up maybe later):

Tony O’Dell - Original Cobra Jimmy from Karate Kid 1

Ron Thomas - Original Cobra Bobby from Karate Kid 1

Darryl Vidal - The high-kicking, defending All Valley Champ - Vidal from Karate Kid 1

Sean Kanan - “Bad Boy of karate” - Mike Barnes from Karate Kid 3

William Christopher Ford - Dennis - Karate Kid 3

Owen Morgan - Bert from Cobra Kai Rick Perez -

Roger from Cobra Kai Austin Raines - Karate student from Cobra Kai

Nathaniel Oh - Nathaniel from Cobra Kai 

Yuji Okamoto - Chozin - from KK2

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by magicdog

[MichaelJC]

Please, they don't have to have the kids attacking each other every episode. Don't the writers know that no matter Tory's back story, she would be in JDC for all she's done. The kids don't all have to be related, this isn't Cobra Incest, it's been 30 years, other families have moved in and out of the Valley. Just enjoy the show. But, please bring back more of the comedic moments from seasons 1 & 2, watching a group kids fight scene every episode was getting boring, this isn't a soap opera, neither were the movies. Show the kids training, show them interacting with each other without some orgy of karate violence. Obviously Daniel and the original Cobra Kai's went to school without a fight breaking out every day.

[readster]

On 1/4/2021 at 9:03 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

The show really falls apart if you think about that New Recruits episode and how much some of those kids had to fall through the cracks for Kreese not to get shut down. Like Hawk beat that kid bloody. Does he go home and no one notices his messed up face and possible concussion. Do teachers not notice and ask if everything is alright at home. Does he go to the hospital. With how much attention there is on concussions and kids sports how does something like that just get ignored?

I thought the house fight was kind of lame. As far as a gun, I was really surprised that none of the kids in the house getting their asses kicked didn't decide they were tired of this bullshit and grab a knife from the kitchen and really hurt someone

 

I know, that's when things just go to far. Just like the school fight, seriously, only ONE teacher is found and he goes: "I'm not paid enough for this." Plus, really, Eli/Hawk's mother at some point didn't get a reality check of all the crap that went down? Same with Kreese able to wrestle Cobra Kai so easily when the guy was practically almost homeless and living off SS thanks to the GI bill. 

[Hatshepsut]

Pretty much every last one of these kids, even the “good guys” would at the very least have been expelled from school if not in juvie. Or in the ER. And how their parents haven’t pulled them all out of this school and/or karate is beyond me. Cobra Kai and Miyagi-do would have been buried in lawsuits. For the most part I can suspend my disbelief, but I think I would have liked just a tiny bit more insight into these kids’ home lives and even just a hand-wavy explanation of how there weren’t more consequences for the school and house fights.  I get that the kids probably wouldn’t be “snitching” on each other, but I just keep imagining them coming home beaten bloody every other day and their parents  going like “how was school today dear?”

Edited August 22, 2021 by Hatshepsut

[Fool to cry]

I hope the pandemic doesn't get addressed at all next season. The show has been a nice escape from reality for me. I love this alternate world where  there are all out karate battles between teenagers and a septagenarian cult leader supervillain is wreaking chaos unopposed in the San Fernando valley!

Edited August 28, 2021 by Fool to cry

[Stats Queen]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:12 PM, Fool to cry said:

I hope the pandemic doesn't get addressed at all next season. The show has been a nice escape from reality for me. I love this alternate world where  there are all out karate battles between teenagers and a septagenarian cult leader supervillain is wreaking chaos unopposed in the San Fernando valley!

And karate champions from years ago are still embedded in the knowledge of all the citizens!

[DoctorAtomic]

As silly as the show is, to be fair there, Daniel uses it on all the billboards and commercial, and the event center that hosts the tournament has banners for all the champions. I can't imagine it's only a single use facility. There's apparently dojos all over the place. It's probably hard for people to avoid.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

As silly as the show is, to be fair there, Daniel uses it on all the billboards and commercial, and the event center that hosts the tournament has banners for all the champions. I can't imagine it's only a single use facility. There's apparently dojos all over the place. It's probably hard for people to avoid.

They said karate in the valley is like high school football in Texas. We just have to accept that in this world it is 

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't remember that, but I wasn't calling ooc on this particular aspect of the show. There is a level of buy-in and I can roll with the analogy. 

[Raja]

20 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't remember that, but I wasn't calling ooc on this particular aspect of the show. There is a level of buy-in and I can roll with the analogy. 

It was the show runners in the ramp up to the first season; just judging from the movies that karate in the 80s was like Texas high school football. Danial's ads do remind me of the previous "State" champions in Friday Night Lights movie as their children became contenders for their own rings.

It does seem as if karate saw a loss of market share until the back to back two time champions rivalry came back as dueling sensei's.

[Fool to cry]

On 9/6/2021 at 8:10 PM, Stats Queen said:

And karate champions from years ago are still embedded in the knowledge of all the citizens!

At the beginning of Karate Kid Part 2 outside the arena the tournament announcer tells Daniel "They'll be talking about that last kick for years to come" Damned if he wasn't right!

[CeeBeeGee]

I don't understand why a couple of times now, the scripts have shown Sam being bullied or gossiped about. She's rich and beautiful, she's nice and she dresses fairly decently--in most schools, that would make her one of the popular kids.

Also, why was she suspended? She was defending herself--is she just supposed to let that psycho maim her? Especially when it was established that the teachers refused to step in. Psycho literally announced that she was "coming for you"--the fault is hers.

Cannot stand Tory. I haaaate those types of people who just invent drama and feuds.

 

On 1/2/2021 at 2:30 PM, raven said:

 The Johnny/Miguel scenes are golden tho - Miguel's patience with trying to teach Johnny about social media and Johnny trying desperately to help him is great stuff, plus Xolo Maridueña is the best of the cast playing the teens. 

Yes! They have wonderful chemistry and their scenes are such a pleasure

Someone here posted about how kind Danny was in KK1--yes! When he saw the dog at the new (crappy) apartment complex and immediately got him some water, I thought that was so sweet, it really warmed my heart. I really dislike that idea that "DaNnY wAs ThE rEaL bUlLy" nonsense--I don't know if it was originally intended as a joke but I hate it when people minimize actual bullying and ignore kindness. Johnny and his goons kicked the crap out of Danny every chance they could and even kicked him down the hill on his bike--yes, for the most part they had nuance (except for Dutch) and it's nice to see they grew up but the Cobra Kais were the bullies back in the '80s. (Although I loved i when Johnny insisted on giving the trophy to Danny himself. Classy move.)

 

On 1/2/2021 at 7:25 PM, mtlchick said:

The downside? So. many. FIGHTS.  I thought the one at the school was bad enough and the excuse of teachers not allowed to interfere was ridiculous.  But at Sam's home?  Wut?  And Aisha was sacrificed for more Tory? How is THAT a good idea.  I so wished Aisha was still there to sort of counterbalance Sam's quest for revenge.  And Hawk finally decided to wake up to his conscious after a full season of being a dick, a bully and an asshole to almost everyone but probably also realizing that he will never be top dog (snake? Cobra?) at the dojo with the way Kreese was actively recruiting. 

I hatehatehate that Aisha was dropped. Hate it.

Loved the scenes with Ali. She was oil on troubled waters and the reunions with her were so sweet.

LOOOOVED the last scene! Finally, Johnny and Danny are on the same side!

[Virtual]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:42 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

Someone here posted about how kind Danny was in KK1--yes! When he saw the dog at the new (crappy) apartment complex and immediately got him some water, I thought that was so sweet, it really warmed my heart. I really dislike that idea that "DaNnY wAs ThE rEaL bUlLy" nonsense--I don't know if it was originally intended as a joke but I hate it when people minimize actual bullying and ignore kindness. Johnny and his goons kicked the crap out of Danny every chance they could and even kicked him down the hill on his bike--yes, for the most part they had nuance (except for Dutch) and it's nice to see they grew up but the Cobra Kais were the bullies back in the '80s. (Although I loved i when Johnny insisted on giving the trophy to Danny himself. Classy move.)

I think a lot of the “Daniel was the real bully” stuff was a result of the ‘thing’ going on YouTube where people make videos stating reasons why the “good” character was really “bad”. It’s been done with other movies/shows too. The show picked it up as a gag during the school assembly, and the Tom Cole stuff.

Daniel wasn’t entirely innocent in the feud with Johnny leading up to the tournament, he did pour a water hose on Johnny’s head and then mock their injuries later when he knew their senseis had the agreement that they’d leave him alone until the tournament. But you’re right that Johnny played a part in continuing it too. Daniel tries fighting Johnny on the beach, Johnny dodges then knocks him down. Then Daniel sucker punches him so Johnny gives him 3 hard hits so he doesn’t get back up. Then Johnny continues the feud at soccer tryouts and decides to knock Daniel down there, even though Daniel hadn’t done anything to him that day. And there’s the night when Daniel’s riding home on his bike and they decide to cut him off and force him down a hill simply because he showed up at the Cobra Kai dojo and observed.

But Johnny did show at the end when he handed him the trophy and throughout the entire Cobra Kai series that he doesn’t go for the aggressive caveman stuff that Kreese and Silver (and Mike Barnes in KK3) are all about.

[ShadowHunter]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:42 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I don't understand why a couple of times now, the scripts have shown Sam being bullied or gossiped about. She's rich and beautiful, she's nice and she dresses fairly decently--in most schools, that would make her one of the popular kids.

Also, why was she suspended? She was defending herself--is she just supposed to let that psycho maim her? Especially when it was established that the teachers refused to step in. Psycho literally announced that she was "coming for you"--the fault is hers.

Cannot stand Tory. I haaaate those types of people who just invent drama and feuds.

 

Yes! They have wonderful chemistry and their scenes are such a pleasure

Someone here posted about how kind Danny was in KK1--yes! When he saw the dog at the new (crappy) apartment complex and immediately got him some water, I thought that was so sweet, it really warmed my heart. I really dislike that idea that "DaNnY wAs ThE rEaL bUlLy" nonsense--I don't know if it was originally intended as a joke but I hate it when people minimize actual bullying and ignore kindness. Johnny and his goons kicked the crap out of Danny every chance they could and even kicked him down the hill on his bike--yes, for the most part they had nuance (except for Dutch) and it's nice to see they grew up but the Cobra Kais were the bullies back in the '80s. (Although I loved i when Johnny insisted on giving the trophy to Danny himself. Classy move.)

 

I hatehatehate that Aisha was dropped. Hate it.

Loved the scenes with Ali. She was oil on troubled waters and the reunions with her were so sweet.

LOOOOVED the last scene! Finally, Johnny and Danny are on the same side!

Funny you mention not understanding why Sam is bullied because her character is actually kinda hated in this Fandom lol.  Other sites have real negative things to say about Sam. Some say Robby and Miguel both deserve better lol. 

I agree about Aisha I'm rewatching S1 and 2 and it it a shame she is gone. Maybe she can come back in another season. The mean girl from S1 Yasmine was actually missing in S2 and poped back in for S3. So it's possible. 

It was wonderful seeing Ali again and Elisabeth Shue and William Zabka had nice chemistry. I really believed they had been in a relationship when they were younger.  I'm a bit sorry she is gone.  Still she served the purpose of the story and wrapped things up for Johnny.  Speaking of Johnny I agree with others that I feel bad he can't make his relationship with Robby work. Still he opted to stay in the hospital when Miguel was having surgery while Robby waited thinking he was going to visit him. 

[Ambrosefolly]

Dmitri is the purest soul because I would have a hard time forgiving my best friend after they publicly bullied me and broke my arm on purpose. All because of a negative Yelp review & besting him in a fight that he started. If I was Dmitri's parent, he would be forbidden from being alone with my kid or allowed in my house, even if I watched Eli grow up. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Ambrosefolly

[paramitch]

On 9/28/2021 at 10:02 AM, Virtual said:

I think a lot of the “Daniel was the real bully” stuff was a result of the ‘thing’ going on YouTube where people make videos stating reasons why the “good” character was really “bad”. It’s been done with other movies/shows too. The show picked it up as a gag during the school assembly, and the Tom Cole stuff.

Daniel wasn’t entirely innocent in the feud with Johnny leading up to the tournament, he did pour a water hose on Johnny’s head and then mock their injuries later when he knew their senseis had the agreement that they’d leave him alone until the tournament. But you’re right that Johnny played a part in continuing it too.

But this isn't accurate.

The water hose incident is before the peace agreement.

The entire reason Daniel goes dressed as a shower to the dance is because he is still being bullied and trying to hide. Then he plays the hose trick as direct rebuttal for all the beatings, which maybe wasn't smart, but he thought he was doing something funny, not that would get him beaten within an inch of his life (which is what happened).

So I just can't agree. After everything Johnny and his friends have done to Daniel at this point, a silly joke that caused them zero physical harm isn't anywhere near on the same level and certainly doesn't make Daniel very defensible as a villain.*

And he gently teases them about their (Miyagi) injuries when he is finally safe from more beatings, and can actually TALK to them and be like, "Hey, maybe you could try not beating people as the way to handle things." Again, I don't think it's necessarily smart, but I get why he does it.

(*I'm not saying that's what you're doing here, it's more an observation on the attempts to repaint Daniel as villain -- which tend to shuffle events so that Daniel's reactions seem more over the top, when they simply weren't.)

Edited January 7, 2022 by paramitch

[Catfi9ht]

11 hours ago, paramitch said:

(*I'm not saying that's what you're doing here, it's more an observation on the attempts to repaint Daniel as villain -- which tend to shuffle events so that Daniel's reactions seem more over the top, when they simply weren't.)

I won't make this post too long since it's tangentially related to Cobra Kai, but I absolutely feel that Daniel is the villain in the KK movies because of his treatment of Mr. Miyagi. If you rewatch the movies and concentrate on the times Daniel interacts with him, they're very abusive. He's constantly yelling at him, throwing hissy fits, stealing things (especially KK3), with thoughtful moments sprinkled in (framing Miyagi's medals) which is typical abuser behavior. Mr. Miyagi has always been the hero of the KK movies for me.

In Cobra Kai, Daniel exhibits the same behavior towards others. He's quick to anger and then only sometimes apologizes afterwards.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Catfi9ht
Adding a Cobra Kai example to stay on topic

[nora1992]

With all the Kreese flashbacks, I was expecting him to be revealed to be Johnny’s father.  Was really surprised the concealed news was her death in a car accident and not a baby.

[Danny Franks]

This show is so weird. Fun, but weird. Quite apart from the idea that karate is still an obsession for all the teens of a town, and that any kid can become a master of it in a very short space of time, the apparent need the writers have for redeeming everyone and then making them all bad, then redeeming them again, is tiresome.

Johnny being more complicated is obviously the basis of the show, and it really works because you rarely get to see the perspective of the bully in a high school movie - things that we cheered Daniel for in 1984 do seem really dickish from Johnny's point of view. And the idea of a burnout older guy finding purpose and turning his life around is always great.

But when everyone else is doing it, the whole thing loses its impact. Miguel is a nice kid then he becomes an asshole then he's nice again, Robby is a criminal who becomes a standup kid then becomes a criminal again, Tory is a psychopath who tries to permanently maim a fellow teen but then we get her sob story and are asked to sympathise. And fucking Hawk - I absolutely love the idea of a bullied, quiet kid becoming the worst bully there is when he gets some power and influence, and they completely sold it with this character. He embodied every bully trope there is, and even turned on his former best friend, assaulting people at every turn, stealing Mr. Miyagi's Medal of Honor. But even he gets a redemption.

There were just more interesting choices to make with all these characters, rather than having them flip-flop between being evil at one dojo or good at the other, just for the melodrama of it. I get the whole "there's no bad student..." mantra, but it just isn't true and showing that anybody can completely change their outlook and personality (sometimes multiple times) just isn't realistic.

I also don't get the apparently legendary Sam/Miguel romance, which lasted four episodes from their first date to Miguel obsessively texting her, getting drunk and jealous and knocking her down while trying to hit Robby. What a love story!

The best stuff is all centred around Daniel and Johnny and their immature rivalry that comes from the apparent belief that karate is the most important thing in the world. I think my favourite character is Amanda, just because she rolls her eyes so damned hard at all the overgrown teenage boy silliness.

And any time Mr. Miyagi is talked about or shown, I get an overwhelming sense of nostalgia, as I'm sure anyone who watched the original movies does. Pat Morita was so charming in the role, and provides this series with a depth and pathos, even from the afterlife.

Also, Johnny's constant losing battle with the modern world is hilarious.

[DoctorAtomic]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I also don't get the apparently legendary Sam/Miguel romance, which lasted four episodes from their first date to Miguel obsessively texting her, getting drunk and jealous and knocking her down while trying to hit Robby. What a love story!

To be fair, teenagers acting like this doesn't seem over the top to me. 

[sacrebleu]

I didn't need to see Krese's backstory. I'm still confused as to how he could just... Take over Cobra Kai when he was living in a halfway house!?!?!

Did Johnny give him access to the dojo's bank account? How did Krese get the lease transferred to his name?

( And if anyone should call the cops, it's the fat landlord who got beat up trying to evict Krese) 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, Johnny only had a 'handshake agreement' and was paying rent in cash. 

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I didn't need to see Krese's backstory. I'm still confused as to how he could just... Take over Cobra Kai when he was living in a halfway house!?!?!

Did Johnny give him access to the dojo's bank account? How did Krese get the lease transferred to his name?

( And if anyone should call the cops, it's the fat landlord who got beat up trying to evict Krese) 

 

Because Kreese is basically an immortal, all-powerful supervillain, at this stage.

[Thomas Crown]

I came across this wonderful deleted scene from season 3 and I really wish they had kept it in. There's something poignant about seeing them dance together and realizing that they did not end up together. 

I've said it before, but this show really gets to me as it hits all the right emotional beats for me.  Being the right age having seen the movies as kid when they first came out in theatres and now getting to revisit the characters + 35 years later is truly a wonderful experience.  There is nothing really deep about the writing on Cobra Kai, but I do love that how they honour and respect the earlier movies that came before. 

[King of TV]

Wasn't season 3 filmed before covid?

[BlueSkies]

On 5/3/2022 at 8:41 PM, Thomas Crown said:

I came across this wonderful deleted scene from season 3 and I really wish they had kept it in. There's something poignant about seeing them dance together and realizing that they did not end up together. 

I've said it before, but this show really gets to me as it hits all the right emotional beats for me.  Being the right age having seen the movies as kid when they first came out in theatres and now getting to revisit the characters + 35 years later is truly a wonderful experience.  There is nothing really deep about the writing on Cobra Kai, but I do love that how they honour and respect the earlier movies that came before. 

Yeah even with season 4 they addressed how silly/over the top Terry Silver was in the 3rd movie.  Though he's a great character though!