S05.E05: Down and Out

[raven]

Quote

Amos and Clarissa are trapped in a collapsed building; Naomi contends with her old family; Holden assembles a new crew on the Roci; Alex and Bobbie make a dangerous discovery in the Belt.

Please keep your discussion to this episode only.  No book talk, thank you!

Airdate 2020.12.30

[VegetasMom]

People know it's actually on Tuesdays, right?  Okay, off to Reddit I guess... 😞  

[thuganomics85]

I liked the choice of the previously recap basically being a montage of the events last week and the only sound heard being Marco's speech from last week.  It also looks like they added in some of the destruction into the credits which is pretty cool.

Glad we didn't have to wait too long to get Drummer's reaction to everything.  I forgot about the whole airlock thing with Marco last season, which I definitely can see haunting her going forward, because who knows how things would have turned out had it gone the other way.  I can understand her reasons for agreeing to meet up with Marco now given the other options, but I can only imagine how it will all play out once she actually is face-to-face with the man again, after everything he's done (and how it has affected her, personally.)  Cara Gee continues to be a revelation in this role.

Glad Amos and Clarissa made it out in one piece, but it was obvious that some of those guards were just destined to be victims of "Tiny."  At least the head officer survived (didn't realize last week she was played by Natalie Brown, who I know best as Kelly from The Strain and Sarah from Dark Matter.)  Curious to see what is in store going forward for good old Amos and Peaches!

Did it really not occur to Holden that Sakai might have booby-trapped the Rocinante or was her methods just that hard to discover if you weren't looking in the right spot?  I hope it's the latter, because the former would mean Holden (and even Bull) is really, really daft right now.  He and Naomi need to reunite, stat!

Thought Cyn/Brent Sexton's Belter might have been set-up as a potential ally for Naomi, but I'm not sure if that whack to the head will be doing any favors for her on that department!

Amos and Bobbie discover that the Martian criminals are actually giving the Free Navy the actual barges themselves for their war, but are discovered before they can warn anyone.  At least they didn't get blown up, but I imagine being stuck in space without a core is going to be a hassle... 

No Chrisjen this episode.  Shohreh Aghdashloo gets a break at least!

[MissLucas]

Well, amazing how the episode flies when you ff scenes with TLS and TBS. Drummer remains a highlight - I had also forgotten about the airlock instance, good of show to remind us. Cara Gee in controlled cold rage mood is a sight to behold.

The scenes of Amos and Peaches were well done but in my opinion they took up too much time. Everybody who's not new to this thing called tv knew that not all the guards would make it. They might as well could have worn red shirts. I would have preferred to get a glimpse of Avasarala instead.

Good scene with Cyn laying out the motives for following Marco. TPTB probably realized that a good portion of the audience ff through TBS's scenes so it was good to get a reminder why the Ring and the Ring worlds are of no value to Belters: they can't live in a gravity well and those few who manage will have children who are no longer Belters.* 

At least Holden knows now that Naomi is still alive. 

* I do wonder about that, I thought the changes in Belter physiology happened over several generations so it would require several generations to reverse them. But maybe I got that wrong? Was it ever explained in detail? 

Edited December 30, 2020 by MissLucas

[UnoAgain]

Great epi... Can't wait for Drummer and Marcos to get face to face.. Her icy rage may freeze/burn the screen.... I guess TLS does care about mommy after all... And its been said but its freaky good casting tween Marcos Naomi and Filip.... Sometimes shows( specially with us POC)  kinda just THROW us together and I know its not always the looks but who's best.. But creepy how much TLS looks like what would come of a Marcos/Naomi union....  I was actually hoping that the roci would take the better terrorist so when they disembarked I was kinda like oh.. That's too bad having her on the ship in the middle of all this might be interesting... So now that they know she's sabotaged everything... they may need her to fix it and she could stay on... 

So.. I guess maybe the Roci eventually picks up Bobbi.. Or do her and Alex end up closer to chrisjen...or Drummer gets them and Amos and peaches get to Chrisjen..  I keep looking ahead trying to figure out who links up with who... 

[Eulipian 5k]

Why  wasn't Sakai strapped to the core of the Roci "as insurance".I doubt she signed up for a suicide mission.

Also, I know her hairstyle can commonly be seen anywhere in the African diaspora, but Sakai can only remind me of this in today's world:

 

[Netfoot]

10 hours ago, MissLucas said:

...it was good to get a reminder why the Ring and the Ring worlds are of no value to Belters: they can't live in a gravity well and those few who manage will have children who are no longer Belters.

I have to disagree. Belters live happily in this system, with planets that present a gravity well. They could easily do the same in another system, such as a Ring World, if they chose to. They would need to select a system with a large asteroid belt (or two) and simply ignore the planets. They would have their own system where they could live howsoever suited them, free from the influence of any 'inners'. The Ring and the Ring Worlds is/are at least as valuable to the belter community as it is to anyone else.

No, the problem with TBS and the belters is the same we see in real life with every group with a cause that turns to violence for fulfillment. They quickly come to enjoy the violence more than they desire the fulfillment of their cause. TBS isn't really interested in getting better conditions for the belters. He just wants to blow shit up!

[mjc570]

I really love this show, so I can't believe I am writing this : This episode was awful except for a few brief scenes. It was boring, boring, boring. I have liked Amos, but that extended prison break was so predictable as to lack any suspense whatsoever.  Sloppy, too - I'm pretty sure biometric locks don't work with dead hands.   I know Naomi's situation is advancing the plot, but it was way too much talk, too little action.  Poor accents, also., the belter patois used to be so much more fluid. 

What I realized - this show needs more Holden, or Avasarala or Drummer.  A lot. 

[Haleth]

I’d rather watch Amos climbing up an elevator shaft than TBS abusing Naomi. 

[wanderingstar]

The dead silence at the end of the episode was chilling. And I did get a bit nauseous at all the twists and turns in the Razorback, excuse me, the Screaming Firehawk.

Still loving Bobbie's clear-eyed focus on her mission.

Loved seeing Amos and Clarissa together. That guy Konecheck was...A LOT! Also liked when they all got to the top of the building, and we saw the devastation from the asteroid hit. I'm assuming we see more next week.

I'm really glad Naomi got the message to Naomi about the ship being sabotaged.

[JZL]

TLS?  TBS?

[UnoAgain]

35 minutes ago, JZL said:

TLS?  TBS?

The little shit filip  and The big shit Marcos

[Eulipian 5k]

I always wondered how Star Trek lets strangers  and prisoners walk around the Enterprise with NO ESCORT. A Naomi can do more damage to Marco’s ship than Sakai can do to the Roci.                

Too bad, so sad, Tiny fall down go boom.

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Loved seeing Amos and Clarissa together. That guy Konecheck was...A LOT! Also liked when they all got to the top of the building, and we saw the devastation from the asteroid hit. I'm assuming we see more next week.

I was hoping they would zoom out more at the end, but I'm sure we will see more next week.

[Holmbo]

11 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I really love this show, so I can't believe I am writing this : This episode was awful except for a few brief scenes. It was boring, boring, boring. I have liked Amos, but that extended prison break was so predictable as to lack any suspense whatsoever.  Sloppy, too - I'm pretty sure biometric locks don't work with dead hands.   I know Naomi's situation is advancing the plot, but it was way too much talk, too little action.  Poor accents, also., the belter patois used to be so much more fluid. 

What I realized - this show needs more Holden, or Avasarala or Drummer.  A lot. 

I liked the prison break but didn't like the scene where Naomi wanted to assassinate Marco. I'm not sure what the difference is because in both we know what no one important is going to die. But for some reason I was engaged in the former but yawning inside with the later. Maybe because there were casualties in the former: Timmy's mug and the Tequila RIP.

[MissLucas]

There was some tension in the prison-break story: I wondered if Peaches would sacrifice herself to save Amos.

[Enero]

15 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I always wondered how Star Trek lets strangers  and prisoners walk around the Enterprise with NO ESCORT. A Naomi can do more damage to Marco’s ship than Sakai can do to the Roci.                

Agreed. That’s why when Naomi planned to stab Marco, I was hoping she’d come to her senses and realize that was not the answer. I understood her logic that if she kills him that’ll stop the destruction that’s being caused being as he’s the leader of it, but the best position she can be in is free to roam about the ship which she can take advantage of. Good thing her son stopped her and in the process inadvertently revealed their plans for the Roci.

I’m glad that she was quick on her feet and intellectually to realize what her son was saying, and thus was able to warn Holden and let him know she’s being held captive. 

22 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I have to disagree. Belters live happily in this system, with planets that present a gravity well. They could easily do the same in another system, such as a Ring World, if they chose to. They would need to select a system with a large asteroid belt (or two) and simply ignore the planets. They would have their own system where they could live howsoever suited them, free from the influence of any 'inners'. The Ring and the Ring Worlds is/are at least as valuable to the belter community as it is to anyone else.

No, the problem with TBS and the belters is the same we see in real life with every group with a cause that turns to violence for fulfillment. They quickly come to enjoy the violence more than they desire the fulfillment of their cause. TBS isn't really interested in getting better conditions for the belters. He just wants to blow shit up!

I agree. I think even if Marco manages to achieve his goal there will always be someone who needs to pay for what they’ve done to the Belters. He will always be looking to destroy not build. 

These episodes go by so fast, even when not much is going on like this one. Though this episode was slow, I still found myself wanting it to continue when it was over. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Enero

[Danny Franks]

Cara Gee is so good at non-verbal acting, and Drummer's anguish over feeling responsible for all those deaths on Earth was palpable, not to mention Fred's death. She had Marco and her word would have seen him spaced and all of this avoided, but she made what seemed to be the better choice for the Belt and now everyone is paying for it.

I liked seeing Amos being decisive and acting on his own decisions, without guidance or direction from anyone else. I guess he's had to do that throughout this trip, but this was the most concise and clear example of him taking the lead rather than following. I can imagine him constantly saying to himself, "what would Holden do?"

Holden, meanwhile, is the one left out of the loop and floundering, worrying about his family and his crew.

Sakai had it wrong, in her assessment of her life - Fred wasn't a guy who saw Belters as "pets" - but the experience of living in a prejudiced, unfair system rang very true. The world isn't built for people like her, for Belters, and she wants that to change. I think Cyn had a better understanding of the disparity between Belters and Inners, as someone who actually was a lowly rockhopper. But Marco's strategy is doomed to failure, because even if he manages to create a world where the Belters are on top, he'll be doing it at the expense of Earth, which will become every bit the embittered, vengeful entity that Marco's faction is right now.

I could happily fast forward Naomi's storyline. Marco's attempted gaslighting, Naomi's increasingly ridiculous insistence that Filip isn't the shadow of his father, Marco's continued manipulation of Filip. It's all gross. Marco has every red flag that an abuser could have. 

I wasn't a fan of Naomi sending a message to Holden in just the nick of time, because we know that's not how communication works in space - by the time Holden received her message, she'd have been sitting in that cell for hours.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Eulipian 5k]

35 minutes ago, Enero said:

I’m glad that she was quick on her feet and intellectually to realize what her son was saying, and thus was able to warn Holden and let him know she’s being held captive. 

Bravo Dominique!; she had to show all of that with only her face.

Syn’s speech in the hall is really the center of the Belter’s dilemma; if they adapt to a planet they wont be Belters anymore. Drummer told Naomi the same thing in season 4.

Btw, I can’t rush to judgement, Tiny didn’t kill Sully, he had hurt his knee falling out of the shaft, before Tiny was there.

[Eulipian 5k]

Didn’t Bobbie’s power armor send out the  IFF, picked up by the Roci in Season 3? That was the last time she (and the Old Lady) was stranded on the Razorback (SFH!).

[whiporee]

23 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I have to disagree. Belters live happily in this system, with planets that present a gravity well. They could easily do the same in another system, such as a Ring World, if they chose to. They would need to select a system with a large asteroid belt (or two) and simply ignore the planets. They would have their own system where they could live howsoever suited them, free from the influence of any 'inners'. The Ring and the Ring Worlds is/are at least as valuable to the belter community as it is to anyone else.

As shown, Belters aren't happy anywhere. They choose to live in an unsustainable environment. As long as they do, they will always be dependent on Earth and Mars. They resent that dependence. 

Marco's theory is that there are enough resources in the belt to sustain the belt. And that might be true. But there's not enough infrastructure in the belt and among the belt community to do that. Johnson was trying to build that kind of belter infrastructure, but he was usurped and murdered for it. 

Marco's  argument isn't, by definition, incorrect. It's the same argument every colony has ever made when breaking away from its mother country. I'm sure they are asking why a little island across the sea control the price of tea. But the mistake is he went too big, too fast. He's thinking instead of independence, he wants control. It would be like Washington's forces insisting on controlling the Atlantic, and to do it they sailed up the Thames and cannoned London. The opposition's navy is too big, too strong to honestly think you can succeed.   

[UnoAgain]

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

As shown, Belters aren't happy anywhere. They choose to live in an unsustainable environment. As long as they do, they will always be dependent on Earth and Mars. They resent that dependence. 

Marco's theory is that there are enough resources in the belt to sustain the belt. And that might be true. But there's not enough infrastructure in the belt and among the belt community to do that. Johnson was trying to build that kind of belter infrastructure, but he was usurped and murdered for it. 

Marco's  argument isn't, by definition, incorrect. It's the same argument every colony has ever made when breaking away from its mother country. I'm sure they are asking why a little island across the sea control the price of tea. But the mistake is he went too big, too fast. He's thinking instead of independence, he wants control. It would be like Washington's forces insisting on controlling the Atlantic, and to do it they sailed up the Thames and cannoned London. The opposition's navy is too big, too strong to honestly think you can succeed.   

True and I think he will ultimately fail... Cuz what tv show ever let the terrorist win in the end... But earth wasn't too stable before this same with mars with so many ppl leaving for ring planets.. Most if they know what happened will be sending thoughts and prayers thru the ring.. But trying to make a new life on whatever planet they've come too... Also Marcos has the protomolecule and that thing is scarier than a nuke strapped with the plague... It will keep many ppl from jumping to fight because he's crazy enough to let it loose somewhere... Wouldn't be surprised if he did just to send the message 

[wanderingstar]

I rewatched this episode and it really hit me what an abusive dick Marco is. Toying with Naomi, and taunting her about how leaving is what she does best (disregarding that he was the reason she left); and then manipulating Filip with that speech about how he has to put his feelings about his mother aside to stand with Marco. Textbook abusive behavior. And what's equally disturbing to watch is how the rest of Marco's inner circle just looks the other way, or thinks "Well, he's the leader of our revolution, so I guess it's ok if he treats Naomi like shit." WTF.

Don't know if the writers are planning a redemption arc for Filip, but if they do, well that should be very interesting.

On a more positive note, I loved seeing Clarissa - in the midst of all the chaos and death around her - take a moment to appreciate the feel of the wind on her face.

 

[Netfoot]

5 hours ago, whiporee said:

As shown, Belters aren't happy anywhere. They choose to live in an unsustainable environment. As long as they do, they will always be dependent on Earth and Mars. They resent that dependence.

What the belters are unhappy about is NOT that they live in vacuum / low-grav environments. That environment is where they want to live. They just hate to have to deal with the 'inners' they believe to be inimical to their way of life. So, if they found a suitable Ring System, they could move there and have no 'inners' to deal with. They could just continue to live in their preferred low-grav / vacuum environment, beholden to none, dependent upon none.

The Ring and the Ring Systems are an opportunity for belters as much as anyone else.  So for TBS to imply that they are of no use to belters is just rubbish. It's confirmation that he isn't after a better life for belters. He just wants to kill 'inners'.

[MissLucas]

5 hours ago, whiporee said:

As shown, Belters aren't happy anywhere. They choose to live in an unsustainable environment. As long as they do, they will always be dependent on Earth and Mars. They resent that dependence. 

The word 'choose' only applies in the losest sense. Their ancestors were desperate enough to take jobs in the Belt that were so dangerous that nobody else would do them. They were economically forced into the Belt and  both Earth and Mars did their best to control and exploit them. They are dependent mostly on Earth which makes Marco throwing rocks at Earth while destabilizing the one place that was about to lay groundwork for their independence even more f***** up.

Edited January 1, 2021 by MissLucas

[steelyis]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But Marco's strategy is doomed to failure, because even if he manages to create a world where the Belters are on top, he'll be doing it at the expense of Earth, which will become every bit the embittered, vengeful entity that Marco's faction is right now.

 

Oh, yeah. They'll be like, "Make Earth Great Again!" I bet they'll do anything to do it, too, consequences be damned.

Marco made killing him, and his people, the goal of billions of people who otherwise may have been neutral or sympathetic to his cause.

Man's a dumb ass.

[whiporee]

12 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The word 'choose' only applies in the losest sense. Their ancestors were desperate enough to take jobs in the Belt that were so dangerous that nobody else would do them. They were economically forced into the Belt and  both Earth and Mars did their best to control and exploit them.

I was talking more about the idea of losing their way of life. That if they adapt and have kids in gravity, they won't be belters anymore. Which is true -- there hasn't been enough time for there to be any genetic evolutionary changes -- it's just what kids grow up in (and maybe in utero, too). The show's never explained emigration or immigration, but if you want a better way of life for your children -- you don't want them dependent on Mars or Earth for water and oxygen -- then you'd find a way to get out of the belt.     

[marinw]

So are body "mods" illegal or were these prisoners criminals that happened to have mods that still can't be removed by force for legal reasons? Perhaps some mods are legal and some aren't. Erich may have benefited from a few mods.

Where is Clarissa's father? In another prison?

As for the children of Belters who grow up on a planet, they could return to living in space if they choose. I think many Belters would want to give their children options they don't currently currently have even if that meant jeopardizing a little cultural identity. 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by marinw

[Holmbo]

On 12/31/2020 at 3:41 PM, MissLucas said:

There was some tension in the prison-break story: I wondered if Peaches would sacrifice herself to save Amos.

I didn't for a second think they'd bring Peaches back just to kill her off right away. But maybe I'll be wrong and she'll die next episode.

16 minutes ago, marinw said:

As for the children of Belters who grow up on a planet, they could return to living in space if they choose. I think many Belters would want to give their children options they don't currently currently have even if that meant jeopardizing a little cultural identity.

 

Some belters do think like that, but not everyone. It's a little bit like those stories of some deaf parents hesitating to give hearing aids to their newborn. Because they don't see deafness as a disability, just a different way of life. Also in the case of Belters, they would have to give up their children then, if they themselves couldn't live on the planet.

[edhopper]

I liked Marco better when he was the lead singer for The Cure.

[Katsullivan]

4 hours ago, marinw said:

So are body "mods" illegal or were these prisoners criminals that happened to have mods that still can't be removed by force for legal reasons? Perhaps some mods are legal and some aren't. Erich may have benefited from a few mods.

 

Clarissa's mods were obtained illegally at least, as revealed in season 3. The shady medical operation probably means that they can't be removed without killing her.  Some mods are legal. I remember in the very first episode, a rock hopper got his arm amputated and Shed (anyone remember him?) talked about new prosthetics that were better than an actual arm.  

[wanderingstar]

On 1/1/2021 at 4:48 PM, Katsullivan said:

and Shed (anyone remember him?)

Yes, of course! I'm still upset about Shed dying the way he did - yes, even 5 seasons later!

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gillian Rosh

[johntfs]

Is it wrong that I kind of "distance ship" Drummer and Amos?  I mean, I know that Amos would accidentally crush her like an empty beer car and I'm 90% sure that Drummer is gay.  Still the idea of those two fierce, terrifying people coming together  kind of warms my heart even as it chills my soul.

Also, pretty sure that Marco's fucked.  He killed Klaes Ashford, who Drummer liked and respected.  Then he killed Fred Johnson, who Drummer loved and respected.  And, well, from a different episode, but...

 

[SnoGirl]

Another great episode. Geez I love scifi shows.

Holden in the elevator trying to get a hold of Naomi was great. I hate the disconnect of our team. Kinda wish we had seen Holden try to get a hold of Amos and Alex, especially after last season with the growth between Holden and Amos. I like when shows show things instead of tell things. I definitely got that Holden was in panic mode.

Loved Amos’ story. Love this idea of after how many seasons/years of using members of the Roci as his moral compass, Amos is finally following his own moral compass. Can’t wait for him yo get off of Earth, I haven’t read the books but have seen my fair share of disaster movies. I’m assuming shit is going to get way worse on Earth. I have slight panic watching Amos’ story. Get my boy into Space on the Roci where he belongs.

Can’t wait for Naomi to get off of Marcos’ ship. I like that she realized the Roci was rigged to blow. If Holden is a hero, I’m sure others of the Roci are well known. Marcos would try to take out others who could stop his plan.

I hope this story starts bringing everyone together soon.

[Holmbo]

So are we assuming the reason TLS brought Naomi onboard was to keep her from returning to the Roci and thereby being blown up? I thought so, but then I heard a discussion saying she wouldn't have made it back anyway before the Roci left. 

[MissLucas]

I'm not sure TLS knows exactly why he brought Naomi along. In the elevator scene it looks as if he's using the Roci's sabotage to justify his actions (probably to win her over) but I doubt that this was in his mind when he gave the order. I'd say it was a confusing mix of anger/showing Mom that he and Dad were FINE without her and a deep seated longing to bring her on his side. A teenager's emotions and motivations are confusing at best (not to say that it's much different with adults) but with more of a decade of Marco's emotional manipulation and brainwashing into the mix you'll hardly ever get a clear view - and neither will TLS.

[Eulipian 5k]

On 1/4/2021 at 11:27 AM, MissLucas said:

A teenager's emotions and motivations are confusing at best (not to say that it's much different with adults) but with more of a decade of Marco's emotional manipulation and brainwashing into the mix you'll hardly ever get a clear view - and neither will TLS.

I love Marco Gaslighting both Naomi and Fillip. "Yes Fillip, remember all the terrible things she did, (which you don't even know about unless I tell you), it's okay to hate your mother, just don't let it distract you. But remember, you hate her; she thinks you're trash."

[tennisgurl]

I cannot wait for Marco to get shoved into the nearest airlock, for all of his delusions of grandeur and big speeches its clear that he is an abuser, user, and murderer who really couldn't care less about the plight of Belters and is in this to feed his ego and to kill tons of inners. Really, it seems like that's at the root of most of his faction, they aren't doing this to create independence for the Belt (their "plan" is clearly awful logistically and morally) but because they are really pissed off at and hate Inners and want to kill as many as possible, even innocent civilians by the millions. Well, with the possible exception of Syn, who actually does seem to really think that this is for the best for the Belt, isn't really thrilled about all of this violence and cares about Naomi, even if that relationship might take a down turn after the wrench to the head. Really, all this is going to do is piss off Earth and Mars so much that they will respond brutally right back at the Belt, be it the government or just angry people, and like Drummer said, now all Belters will be judged even harsher by association. I hate that Naomi is stuck with him but at least she still isn't buying into his gaslighting, even if she still hasn't fully gotten that her son might be too far gone now. At least he stopped her from killing Marco and presumably getting killed after that, maybe he does still care about her just a bit. I am trying to keep an open mind that it might not be too late for him, as he is still a teen and has clearly been brainwashed by his horrible father and has grown up being told that all of this is the right thing to do, but it would be a long way to go. 

I was a bit worried that Clarissa would sacrifice herself to save Amos or the head guard at the prison, so I am glad that she survived, which is certainly more than what I would have thought for most of last season. Amos really had some hero vibes, even on his own without anyone to tell him what to do! The end with the ruined Earth was really so much, I am very interested in seeing where Clarissa and Amos go after this. Hopefully they can get back into space and hook up with Holden soon, the guy is clearly in need of his crew again. Poor Holden, in his phone call to Naomi you can feel how hard he was trying to stay calm but is clear just holding back going into full panic mode. He cant get in touch with any of his friends or family or girlfriend and has no idea if they're alive, just saw Fred die, and as usual is now in charge of stuff that he really never wanted to deal with in the first place. 

Drummer's cold death glares could melt metal. Drummer was beating herself up enough when she found out that Marco killed Ashford, but now knowing that this guy murdered Fred, who she loved and followed for years, and has slaughtered millions and thrown the whole system into turmoil, she is going to feel even worse. Last season I knew that this would happen, and while her decision not to space Marco made sense at the time, and there is no way she could have foreseen how far he would go, even murdering people she personally knows and cares about, I knew she would beat herself up about it. 

I guess the best real option for the Belt is to be a more independent entity and to be seen as equals to Earth and Mars, allowed to live their lives  with their specific culture without being basically run by earth who don't care much about their quality of life, but they were already heading in that direction already and now that has just been literally and figuratively blown up by Marco. The other thing is that, like Syn said, while the Earthers and Martians are all running to colonize new planets, they don't feel like that is as much of an option for them either because they literally cant be there as their bodies will break down, or that their culture will die out the way its happening on Mars. It is actually interesting to explore, as I am sure that there are some Belters who would take leaving behind their traditional culture or modifying it to give their family a new start, as well as some who would never want to leave the Belt and their space faring culture, but now that Marco has done this everything has now gotten a LOT more complicated for them. 

I really hope that the whole crew come together again soon, its been five episodes and everyone has been separated the whole season. So much of what makes this show feel so grounded despite the space opera drama and the political intrigue is the very real and grounded chemistry between the Rocinante crew, I really miss seeing everyone together. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Holmbo]

I feel like one of the problems for Belters is that the main thing they have in common is oppression from the inners. There are some of them who're very ideological, like Drummer or Dawes, but most are probably just practical and not super tied up in thoughts about what it does or does not mean to be Belters. If they can live on a planet in comfort they will. If not they just want to be left alone and not controlled by either the inners or other Belters. 

[lidarose9]

I have not been able to see the news reports clearly enough to know for sure where the rocks hit, does anybody know? What happened to the other rocks? 

Around 66 million years ago, 75% of all life on Earth was wiped out by the impact of one asteroid, estimated to be 6-9 miles wide. Earth has been hit by at least two (or maybe 3) of Marco's rocks. This will be an unfolding widespread catastrophe on Earth, not some isolated disaster. I understand the breaching of the sea walls would submerge much evidence of damage under water, but I was stunned when our heroes climbed out of their elevator shaft. After seeing picture of 9/11, I expected horrible thick crud in the air and giant mounds of rubble everywhere. Maybe the buildings were all vaporized, I don't know. 

[whiporee]

2 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

I have not been able to see the news reports clearly enough to know for sure where the rocks hit, does anybody know? What happened to the other rocks? 

Around 66 million years ago, 75% of all life on Earth was wiped out by the impact of one asteroid, estimated to be 6-9 miles wide. Earth has been hit by at least two (or maybe 3) of Marco's rocks. This will be an unfolding widespread catastrophe on Earth, not some isolated disaster. I understand the breaching of the sea walls would submerge much evidence of damage under water, but I was stunned when our heroes climbed out of their elevator shaft. After seeing picture of 9/11, I expected horrible thick crud in the air and giant mounds of rubble everywhere. Maybe the buildings were all vaporized, I don't know. 

Marco's rocks aren't nearly that bog. Maybe 100 meters across, maybe not even that. Enough to do plenty of damage, but not planet shattering. These are more like big atomic bombs going off than giant Hydrogen bombs. Plenty of damage, but not dinosaur type stuff. 

[lidarose9]

Answering my own question, according to this, there were three asteroids that hit Earth. 

Bombardment of Earth (TV) | The Expanse Wiki | Fandom

 

[WatchrTina]

I'm late to the party and am finally getting caught up on the last three episodes so I'll just say this.  

1. Emo Marco makes me feel ill.  I'm glad Naomi didn't stab him (since his crew would probably have killed her) but to quote a line from To Kill a Mockingbird, "Your honor, he needed killing."
2. I hate Naomi being put in a position of helplessness so I was glad when she got a bit of agency back by being able to send out that message and save the Roci and its crew.
3. I still hate Filip (That Little Shit) but he earned a few merit points by saving Naomi from herself and then NOT telling Marco (That Big Shit) how close he came to dying.
4. I hate the Roci family all being separated.  I sure hope some of them are reunited.  But if Amos somehow makes his way back to the Roci with Clarissa in tow that's going to be SUPER AWKWARD.
5. There was one thing that confused me.  I swear when Amos & Co got to the surface I saw Clarissa click her jaw in that I'm-activating-my-mod-and-will-be-kicking-ass-and-taking-names-shortly manner we have seen before.  But then nothing came of it and Amos had to save the day all on his own.  So I guess she was in too much pain from her injury to be of any use OR Amos dealt with the situation so swiftly she didn't need to try to help him OR she's a clever survivor and would have joined forces with (and put her super-strength at the disposal of) either Amos or "Tiny" (though I'm sure she's glad it was Amos who was the last man standing.)  Bottom line: I still don't trust her because I'm confused by her.

[Ziggy]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

There was one thing that confused me.  I swear when Amos & Co got to the surface I saw Clarissa click her jaw in that I'm-activating-my-mod-and-will-be-kicking-ass-and-taking-names-shortly manner we have seen before.  But then nothing came of it and Amos had to save the day all on his own.  So I guess she was in too much pain from her injury to be of any use OR Amos dealt with the situation so swiftly she didn't need to try to help him OR she's a clever survivor and would have joined forces with (and put her super-strength at the disposal of) either Amos or "Tiny" (though I'm sure she's glad it was Amos who was the last man standing.)  Bottom line: I still don't trust her because I'm confused by her.

The blockers were still in her system, and they prevented her mods from working.

[Clanstarling]

On 12/30/2020 at 9:04 AM, Eulipian 5k said:

Why  wasn't Sakai strapped to the core of the Roci "as insurance".I doubt she signed up for a suicide mission.

Also, I know her hairstyle can commonly be seen anywhere in the African diaspora, but Sakai can only remind me of this in today's world:

 

That's what I thought of too.

On 12/31/2020 at 12:44 PM, Danny Franks said:

I wasn't a fan of Naomi sending a message to Holden in just the nick of time, because we know that's not how communication works in space - by the time Holden received her message, she'd have been sitting in that cell for hours.

The nick of time was a bit much, I agree. I think it only looked like an instant connection (or was edited that way for tension purposes). Since they've been very clear in other episodes about how distance impacts receipt.

On 1/13/2021 at 6:17 PM, WatchrTina said:

I'm late to the party and am finally getting caught up on the last three episodes so I'll just say this.  

1. Emo Marco makes me feel ill.  I'm glad Naomi didn't stab him (since his crew would probably have killed her) but to quote a line from To Kill a Mockingbird, "Your honor, he needed killing."
2. I hate Naomi being put in a position of helplessness so I was glad when she got a bit of agency back by being able to send out that message and save the Roci and its crew.
3. I still hate Filip (That Little Shit) but he earned a few merit points by saving Naomi from herself and then NOT telling Marco (That Big Shit) how close he came to dying.
4. I hate the Roci family all being separated.  I sure hope some of them are reunited.  But if Amos somehow makes his way back to the Roci with Clarissa in tow that's going to be SUPER AWKWARD.
5. There was one thing that confused me.  I swear when Amos & Co got to the surface I saw Clarissa click her jaw in that I'm-activating-my-mod-and-will-be-kicking-ass-and-taking-names-shortly manner we have seen before.  But then nothing came of it and Amos had to save the day all on his own.  So I guess she was in too much pain from her injury to be of any use OR Amos dealt with the situation so swiftly she didn't need to try to help him OR she's a clever survivor and would have joined forces with (and put her super-strength at the disposal of) either Amos or "Tiny" (though I'm sure she's glad it was Amos who was the last man standing.)  Bottom line: I still don't trust her because I'm confused by her.

She did click and they showed her irises changing. I was waiting for something too.

On 1/13/2021 at 7:46 PM, Ziggy said:

The blockers were still in her system, and they prevented her mods from working.

Likely the case, as they mentioned the blockers and mods. But it was a bit strange that they showed her eyes in a closeup, implying that they were actually working.

Marcos ordering the Roci to be blown up with the code Natalie had created was next level revenge - killing the man she loved with her own code.

[ahisma]

So, the other prisoners on the bottom level are just going to stay locked up until they starve to death? Okay then...

Didn’t the Razorback have some kind of drug injection mechanism for withstanding super high Gs? I didn’t see that this time.

And I still don’t know how Babbage can live with herself, handing off weaponry and actual Navy ships to the Belter who just bombed the Martian Parliament. That’s a revolting level of treasonous. I hope Avasarala gets that footage to news broadcasts on Earth, Mars, and the Belt.

I love Drummer’s pansexual, polyamorous pirate crew. (Even if the are a little prejudiced against Earthers.) 

[marinw]

6 hours ago, ahisma said:

So, the other prisoners on the bottom level are just going to stay locked up until they starve to death? Okay then...

I was thinking about that too. That is horrible.

[Quark]

Another fabulous episode. This season is turning out to be such a treat!

I have to say (I think someone mentioned something similar upthread), but I thought that the asteroids would have killed a lot more people than 1-2 million. I was thinking in the 10s of millions at least. I suppose that could still happen given the awful position that Earth is in, the flooding of sea walls on a planet where by this point a lot of nations would be below sea level.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Amos, stop calling him Tiny. Gah!

What means "emergency core dump"? Are Alex and Bobbie stranded now?

[AudienceofOne]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:01 AM, Netfoot said:

I have to disagree. Belters live happily in this system, with planets that present a gravity well. They could easily do the same in another system, such as a Ring World, if they chose to

The whole philosophy had me asking myself, "what IS a Belter?" 

Is it just someone who survives in a low-gravity environment? If their culture is one of wage slavery in the belt then what does it mean to have self-determination but still be a Belter?