S32.E10: Getting Down to the Nitty Gritty

[Guest]

10 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Sorry, but that little butterface would do nothing for most men--and you know Chee will not hear the end of it if they lose.  

That edit only made it slightly better. 

9 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

No slur on women--just on a nasty woman who is quick to blame Chee yet repeats her own mistakes OVER AND OVER.  Their relationship was NOT so strong--Hung even said that they had neglected their marriage and that's why they did this.  Chee seemed so unhappy in the beginning with her nagging.  She's ugly inside and it shows.

 

Summing up a woman based on her physical attractiveness to men is extremely offensive in my book. Also, that’s not what butterface means. 

8 hours ago, dgpolo said:

Like the twin hunt in Season 3?

Ugh, I hated that one. Alliances ganging up on one team is a race standard. 

[MelinaBallerina]

On 12/2/2020 at 10:34 PM, Lantern7 said:

And then Riley & Maddison closed the loop by U-Turning the Beards. 

I'm confused.  Aren't Riley & Maddidon The Beards?  How can they U-Turn themselves?

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, Lukeysboat said:

In no way would I consider him a “celebrity,” but Will came in second on his season of America’s Next Top Model. I recognized him in this season’s first episode of TAR. 

Wait! Isn’t AMNTM with female models? I’ve never watched the show but I know Tyra Banks hosted it. Is the show even on anymore? Was there a male version of this? Anyhoo, I only knew James because he would host a recap show on afterbuzz tv (an online show I think) and, he was always recapping TAR and Survivor. That was years ago though. So, it seems like the both of them are really involved in the reality world. There’s nothing wrong with that but it looks like they’ve been a actively wanting to be apart of it. I think Will or James have said they want to do Survivor, too. 

[Tdoc72]

On 12/2/2020 at 11:34 PM, Lantern7 said:

Survivor could have been 18-20 Hantzes, and CBS would have aired it because Survivor is still a popular draw.

For the love of Pete, don’t give them any ideas!  😆

18 hours ago, Haleth said:

 

I kept waiting for Gary to mention that making tiles is one of his hobbies.

🤣🤣🤣

14 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

while Gary seethes as calmly as anyone has ever seethed before.

Genius way to describe that!

[Vermicious Knid]

2 years later, Aparna is still salty. They were very well aware this was a race.

Quote

We all talked about how the “Mine Five” was no more, and everyone was in a race for themselves moving forward. But then, when it came down to it, it seemed like they were making a really dumb decision to keep with the alliance. They’re not going to cross the finish line holding hands together! One team wins, so you need to optimize to figure out how to get teams that have always beaten you or consistently ahead of you out of the season because you might not get another chance further on.

And some people questioned why they weren't mad at the Beard Bros too but they were.

Quote

And then to see the beard bros burn the board. I mean, how dumb can you be to do that? Don’t you want to take out a team that’s always beating you? That’s, I think, where our frustration came from. We thought, “You guys aren’t playing the game to win for yourself.”

DeAngelo spent 3 hours on the tiles. They ended up about 45 minutes behind in getting to the mat, but Eswar did finish in fewer tries.

[ByaNose]

I saw a few exit interviews today. Aparna is definitely the talker of the two and still angry 2 plus years later. Talk about holding a grudge. Yikes! While I would like Gary & DeAngelo end up in the Final 3 I sort of agree with Aparna. They should have U-Turned the brothers or Will & James. The brother & sister were nice they made for boring tv. I’m curious to see how things play out and if Gary & DeAngelo should come in 4th will Phil spill the tea about the Mine-3? That might be better then the show,itself. LOL!!!!

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

2 years later, Aparna is still salty. They were very well aware this was a race.

Damn she’s bitter. I find it amusing she keeps harping on it being a dumb decision when this is the season of dumb decisions. Did they really expect the racers to suddenly start making good strategic decisions? Plus the team who said it was better to hang back really shouldn’t be criticizing anyone else’s strategy. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Guest

[mtlchick]

8 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Wait! Isn’t AMNTM with female models? I’ve never watched the show but I know Tyra Banks hosted it. Is the show even on anymore? Was there a male version of this? 

There were a few seasons where men did compete along with women. 

[seacliffsal]

What Aparna is missing is that u-turning them ended up being the right decision as Gary and DeAngelo did not beat them by much at the end.  Although it sounds good to try to eliminate a stronger team, it may not always be a smart choice as a stronger team most likely would have finished ahead of DeGangelo at the tile task and thus Gary and DeAngelo would have been eliminated.  The choice to u-turn a stronger team does not always work out that way (i.e. Will and James u-turning Leo and his team mate [am forgetting her name right now]).  The decision to u-turn Aparna and her brother ended up being the exact right decision for Gary and DeAngelo.

I could only hope to have patience that is 10% of what Hung and Gary demonstrated at the tile task.  They were amazing in not becoming anxious and frustrated about their team mates' performances at that challenge.

And, on another note, I do think that Will and James mug for the cameras and in no way do I use that word as "code" for anything.  Sometimes an observation/opinion is just that, an observation/opinion.  I have had the same opinion of many teams throughout the season that has encompassed many different teams of many different relationships.

[snarts]

4 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I saw a few exit interviews today. Aparna is definitely the talker of the two and still angry 2 plus years later. Talk about holding a grudge. Yikes! While I would like Gary & DeAngelo end up in the Final 3 I sort of agree with Aparna. They should have U-Turned the brothers or Will & James. The brother & sister were nice they made for boring tv. I’m curious to see how things play out and if Gary & DeAngelo should come in 4th will Phil spill the tea about the Mine-3? That might be better then the show,itself. LOL!!!!

What she's overlooking is that DeAngelo & Gary did not know if they were ahead of the teams on the other detour. 

While they could've yielded Riley/Madiosson, the fact that they were seconds behind them was a strong deterrent. No one wants to be that 'in your face' about it, as evidenced by the brothers comments that they too were planning to yield Eswar/Aparna given the circumstances.

The only yield that was certain to give DeAngelo & Gary a definite buffer was the one they chose.  The bad faith alliance play was made by the Riley/Madisson when they burned the board, not byDeAngelo & Gary.

[lilysmom]

5 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I saw a few exit interviews today. Aparna is definitely the talker of the two and still angry 2 plus years later. Talk about holding a grudge. Yikes! While I would like Gary & DeAngelo end up in the Final 3 I sort of agree with Aparna. They should have U-Turned the brothers or Will & James. The brother & sister were nice they made for boring tv. I’m curious to see how things play out and if Gary & DeAngelo should come in 4th will Phil spill the tea about the Mine-3? That might be better then the show,itself. LOL!!!!

I also wanted De and Gary to u turn the boyfriends or Hung and Chee, but I think at that point, they thought they were still in an alliance with them. If they weren't able to figure out that one of the five had to go (and that originally it was them) they just aren't paying attention!

[sinycalone]

5 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I saw a few exit interviews today. Aparna is definitely the talker of the two and still angry 2 plus years later. Talk about holding a grudge. Yikes! While I would like Gary & DeAngelo end up in the Final 3 I sort of agree with Aparna. They should have U-Turned the brothers or Will & James. The brother & sister were nice they made for boring tv. I’m curious to see how things play out and if Gary & DeAngelo should come in 4th will Phil spill the tea about the Mine-3? That might be better then the show,itself. LOL!!!!

U-turning any of the other teams would most likely not have eliminated them...certainly not Maddison/Riley.  It was the last U-turn of the season...and it was a great time to use it.  Late in the season, U-turning a strong team....especially when you are not certain where they are at that point...would not have been a smart play.

Plus, I suspect Aparna was offended that two "dumb jocks" dared to U-turn her.  DeAngelo was certainly right about one thing...Aparna let her emotions take over.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by sinycalone

[valen]

Lord. That interview is awkward. She's still so angry. She wants to blame Gary and DeAngelo for everything - even talking up the alliance. The brothers and the boyfriends talked about the alliance AT LEAST as much as Gary and DeAngelo.

[sinycalone]

2 minutes ago, valen said:

Lord. That interview is awkward. She's still so angry. She wants to blame Gary and DeAngelo for everything - even talking up the alliance. The brothers and the boyfriends talked about the alliance AT LEAST as much as Gary and DeAngelo.

This.  Yikes....her ego was definitely involved in her reactions.

[blackwing]

7 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

2 years later, Aparna is still salty. They were very well aware this was a race.

She seems like a real peach.  Many teams that have been the recipient of a Yield or U Turn have said in their post-game interviews that they were mad at the time but understand the decision now, and all is good between them and the other team.  Not this one!  She is clearly still angry about it and she is still trying to justify her nasty outburst by saying that she was correct.

She claims that Gary and DeAngelo could have counted the clues and figured out who was behind them and made their U Turn choice based on that.  Huh?  I thought that each team received the clue giving them the Detour choices from the monks at the floating temple.  Then the teams went to the Detours.  Gary and DeAngelo had no idea where Will/James and Hung/Chee were, for all they knew, the other task was quicker and those two teams were long gone.  They don't get the Route Info clue until AFTER they decide whether or not to use the U Turn.

She also suggests that Gary and DeAngelo were the ones who were the ones that kept pushing the alliance and benefitted the most from it.  Really?  From what I saw, it was Will and James who pushed the alliance, and that was mainly to try and get out Leo and Alana.  It was Will and James that browbeat the sisters into Yielding Leo and Alana.  It was Will and James who have been getting lots of help from their alliance.  Have there been any instances where Will and James actually helped the others?  I don't count printing out the useless map of Paraguay.

It sounds like she got trashed on twitter on Wednesday night and that she was defending herself then and said the same things in this interview.  How sad... two years have passed and she still is mad about it..  I feel bad for her future husband.  She clearly is a grudge holder and she is the type to never let things go. 

I wish this interviewer had asked them about their backgrounds as software engineers and their degrees from Berkeley and whether it was an advantage or disadvantage for them since they obviously were in their minds the smartest people in the room.  Also, the opening paragraphs mentions how they "notably" were able to avoid the so-called "language curse", which again, I think is a creation of their own minds.

Good riddance to Aparna.  I have a firm belief that TAR will continue, after vaccines etc, and that one day there will be another Second Chances season.  I truly hope that these two will not be on it.  They don't deserve another chance.  They were a mediocre team to begin with.  They act like running in the middle of the pack was their strategy.  I think they just aren't very good racers.  And they are boring to watch.

Edited December 4, 2020 by blackwing

[Cotypubby]

8 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

2 years later, Aparna is still salty. They were very well aware this was a race.

And some people questioned why they weren't mad at the Beard Bros too but they were.

DeAngelo spent 3 hours on the tiles. They ended up about 45 minutes behind in getting to the mat, but Eswar did finish in fewer tries.

AKA “They decided to U-Turn us so automatically that makes it a bad decision.”

It turned to be the correct choice for the NFL team to make, the only real reason Aparna didn’t like it is because it went against her. Her team sucked the entire game, they were always weak and in the back. 

[Lovecat]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:57 AM, Corgi-ears said:

C'mon! Use your brain!!

That's that lump three feet above your ass!  [I never miss an opportunity to use that League of their Own quote...]

16 hours ago, mojoween said:

The gnomes in life jackets completely tickled me.

That was my favorite part, and I gigglesnorted at them all kneeling so reverently in the temple, cradling their be-jacketed gnomes.  I was waiting for one of them to get carried away and offer up the gnome to the monks.

[chaifan]

I'm at a table of one here... I liked Arpana's interview.  She was honest.  Bitter?  Angry?  Personally, I can't tell from a written interview, I guess it depends on what tone you're reading into it.  But she's honest about her feelings, and I give her credit for that.

And, if they were only 45 minutes behind everyone, then I think she's right - U turning them was a dumb move.   Eswar apparently did the tile task faster than most.  If Gary & DeAngelo or the Beards had U turned Will & James or Hung & Chee either of those teams would have been last (they also took much longer at the tiles than Eswar did).  If Gary & DeAngelo had U turned the Beard Bros, then the Beards would have had to U turn another team.  That would have put G&D with a nice lead against 2 teams, not just 1.  So yeah, dumb move.

And I totally agree with her that the Beards burning the U turn was dumb, and was done out of the alliance and not strategy.  The best strategy is to at least aim to knock out a strong team at that point, not bring them into the final 3 with you.  Arpana said they knew more teams were behind them due to the clues in the box (and I know, someone upthread disputes this, but she was there so I'm taking her word for it).  But even if that isn't the case, so what?  Aim for a team, and if they happen to be in front of you, it's the same result as burning the U turn. 

Arpana:  But I think for us, it stung to see Gary and DeAngelo make a dumb decision to U-turn us and not a team that’s always beaten them. And then to see the beard bros burn the board. I mean, how dumb can you be to do that? Don’t you want to take out a team that’s always beating you? That’s, I think, where our frustration came from. We thought, “You guys aren’t playing the game to win for yourself.”

I agree with her.

I was surprised that they were 45 minutes behind Gary & DeAngelo.  Editing made it look much closer.  I figured it wasn't super close, but I was figuring 10 minutes or so, as it seemed from their time in the tuk tuk they really thought they still had a chance.

I wonder if any of the teams had time to wander around Angkor Wat.  It's such an amazing place.  It would kill me to be able to run into the area and then have to immediately leave.  I also thought production missed an opportunity for a fun speed bump here - there's a market in Siem Reap that has (or at least had 10 years ago) a pool that is filled with little fish.  You sit on the edge and dangle your bare feet in, and the fish nibble the dead skin off your feet.  It is one of the weirdest things I've done.  It would have been a funny speed bump.

 

 

 

[bankerchick]

Quote

Until now she and her brother have been pretty much nonentities. Too bad the last impression of her is a whiny poor sport.

Given that my first impression of her was her stating that she's really f* smart, the fact that she's whiny too doesn't seem to be much of a stretch.

[MartyQui]

Eswar made it sound like their consistent 5th or 6th place performance was a choice "to be below the radar", but it was actually that they just weren't great racers.  They made a lot of mistakes, and it seemed like they weren't so likeable that the Mine 5 really considered them a part of the alliance.  And they are pretty dismissive of Gary and D'Angelo, who have been running a good, smart race, with some hiccups.

[sinycalone]

Quote

And, if they were only 45 minutes behind everyone, then I think she's right - U turning them was a dumb move.   Eswar apparently did the tile task faster than most.  If Gary & DeAngelo or the Beards had U turned Will & James or Hung & Chee either of those teams would have been last (they also took much longer at the tiles than Eswar did).  If Gary & DeAngelo had U turned the Beard Bros, then the Beards would have had to U turn another team.  That would have put G&D with a nice lead against 2 teams, not just 1.  So yeah, dumb move.

If the NFLers hadn't  U-turned the Siblings, and it was just a 45minute difference on their arrivals at the mat, then the D/Gary probably would have been eliminated considering how long it took DeAngelo to do the tiles vs Eswar.  Without the UTurn, D/Gary would have been behind the siblings on the way to the mat.   Also,  if they had Uturned Maddison/Riley or any of the other teams, no way D/Gary would have had two teams behind them.  Riley/Mad. would just have uturned the siblings...none of the 3 in the alliance were going to uUturn each other.  Considering how much quicker the Vballers did the tiles.....the extra time they spent on the garden would have been easily offset by the tile challenge advantage.  All of the other teams did the tile challenge faster than DeAngelo.,  The goal of the UTurn by the NFLers was to make it less likely they would be eliminated...and that's exactly what happened.

Edited December 4, 2020 by sinycalone

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, MartyQui said:

Eswar made it sound like their consistent 5th or 6th place performance was a choice "to be below the radar", but it was actually that they just weren't great racers.  They made a lot of mistakes, and it seemed like they weren't so likeable that the Mine 5 really considered them a part of the alliance.  And they are pretty dismissive of Gary and D'Angelo, who have been running a good, smart race, with some hiccups.

It’s a lot easier to have a strategy of targeting a stronger team when you are the weakest team left. 

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

And, if they were only 45 minutes behind everyone, then I think she's right - U turning them was a dumb move.   Eswar apparently did the tile task faster than most.  If Gary & DeAngelo or the Beards had U turned Will & James or Hung & Chee either of those teams would have been last (they also took much longer at the tiles than Eswar did).  If Gary & DeAngelo had U turned the Beard Bros, then the Beards would have had to U turn another team.  That would have put G&D with a nice lead against 2 teams, not just 1.  So yeah, dumb move.

In my opinion U-turning a really strong team who is right behind you is never a good strategy. It’s basically a burned u-turn unless something really unusual happens. Yes it was a safe bet that Riley and Madison would then u-turn Aparna and Eswar but the end result is exactly the same and you have cut off a potential ally. 

4 hours ago, snarts said:

While they could've yielded Riley/Madiosson, the fact that they were seconds behind them was a strong deterrent. No one wants to be that 'in your face' about it, as evidenced by the brothers comments that they too were planning to yield Eswar/Aparna given the circumstances.

It wasn’t even seconds. One of the Bros was standing right next to them when they announced who they were u-turning. 

[HurricaneVal]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

I wonder if any of the teams had time to wander around Angkor Wat.  It's such an amazing place.  It would kill me to be able to run into the area and then have to immediately leave. 

Didn't Phil say something about the pit stop being an overnight at the temple?  Presumably a hostel, or set of tents discreetly set off to the side in the jungle.  Also presumably in an area that has been confirmed to be safe from landmines!  I have an adventurous friend who likes to do exotic travel, and he took a very memorable trip to Cambodia many years ago.  He is the type of person who "has never met a stranger" and he makes the most amazing connections during his travels which often leads to spontaneous amazing experiences.  Somehow he ended up hooked into one of the archeological teams who was going in and opening up new areas in the Angkor Wat temple complex.  The whole area is littered with landmines and boobytraps, so going into a new area is a little tense because only the direct path is cleared and safe.  He said it was the most surreal Indiana Jones-like experience.  The security guard responsible for making sure the new guy didn't get killed looked him straight in the eye, shook his finger in my friend's face, and literally said "You step where I step.  You touch what I touch.  Nothing else."

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, sinycalone said:

The goal of the UTurn by the NFLers was to make it less likely they would be eliminated...and that's exactly what happened.

As far as I'm concerned, that is the only legitimate way to use the U-Turn/Yield. You nominate the team that is (or that you guess is) running last. That way they become even laster! Thereby giving yourself more minutes to be delayed at a challenge or by a taxi, and still get to the pitstop and still be not-last/not-eliminated.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'll respectfully disagree here.  It may come down to people's individual definitions of mugging.  My definition includes deliberately breaking the 4th wall - making a comment, facial expression, gesture, etc. towards the camera and for the camera.  I should add unsolicited and unprompted to that definition.

But isn't it unrealistic to expect the racers to pretend cameras aren't there? They aren't actors, they don't have to pretend they don't see the camera man following them around the whole leg, and as far as I know there's no rule against interacting with him or her. 

I just think it's dicey to complain someone is "mugging" because they're having fun, interacting with the camera, expressing themselves whether in grief or in joy, and then turn around and claim you enjoy when racers have fun and appreciate the experience. Especially when it applies to certain teams that are - shall we say - perhaps more "colorful" than others.

Now, if you want to say they're smug, they're catty or too over the top, that's a whole other ballgame and I'm on board with that.

Quote

In no way would I consider him a “celebrity,” but Will came in second on his season of America’s Next Top Model. I recognized him in this season’s first episode of TAR.

Yikes, really?

[chaifan]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But isn't it unrealistic to expect the racers to pretend cameras aren't there? They aren't actors, they don't have to pretend they don't see the camera man following them around the whole leg, and as far as I know there's no rule against interacting with him or her. 

I just think it's dicey to complain someone is "mugging" because they're having fun, interacting with the camera, expressing themselves whether in grief or in joy, and then turn around and claim you enjoy when racers have fun and appreciate the experience.

That's why my definition includes both towards the camera and for the camera.  I think it's very different than having fun (or getting upset) and interacting with the camera in that moment.  I enjoy seeing unfettered giddiness by racers.  But deliberately turning towards the camera to give an eye roll, or make a snarky comment or whatever for the sake of the camera is different from that.  Also, I don't mind an occasional mug.  I'm just not a fan of teams doing it again and again.

And going back to the U turn thing for a moment... trying to boil this down as best I can...  if using the U turn to knock out a competitor is good strategy, then I would argue that using it a) to knock out one of the stronger teams is smarter strategy, and b) using it to delay 2 teams instead of just 1 is also smarter strategy because it gives you 2 buffer zones.  So, I think Gary & DeAngelo could have used it smarter by U turning Hung & Chee or Will & James, instead of the weakest team of the bunch.  And the Beards could have used it smarter by not burning it so 2 teams instead of 1 would be behind, and again, possibly eliminating one of the stronger teams.

[Netfoot]

When you are sucking in your cheeks, striking a dramatic pose and coyly batting your eyelashes while artfully peering at the camera over your shoulder, I'd call it mugging. Others can call it what ever they like.

[sinycalone]

If Riley/Maddison had gotten to the UTurn first, they would have U-Turned the NFLers.  Let's say the BFs got there next....they would have UTruned Riley/Madison...burning the board.  Thus, D/Gary would have been pretty much guaranteed to finish last.

Instead D/Gary reached the UTurn first.  The Vballers did not UTurn another team...they did the only thing that made it almost a certainty that the Siblings would be gone.  

No one was trying to just cause another team to drop a spot....they wanted a team OUT.

 

[aghst]

55 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

If Riley/Maddison had gotten to the UTurn first, they would have U-Turned the NFLers.  Let's say the BFs got there next....they would have UTruned Riley/Madison...burning the board.  Thus, D/Gary would have been pretty much guaranteed to finish last.

Instead D/Gary reached the UTurn first.  The Vballers did not UTurn another team...they did the only thing that made it almost a certainty that the Siblings would be gone.  

No one was trying to just cause another team to drop a spot....they wanted a team OUT.

 

If they did U-turn the NFLers, that would have knocked them out.  DeAngelo would still be working on the tile after the other teams have checked in.

They would have probably U-turned the brother sister in turn so either way, brother and sister would have been U-turned, though the smart thing for the NFLers would have been to use the second U-turn on one of the other two teams, break up the secret alliance.

But there probably would have been a confrontation too.  The Beards and the NFL team arrived at the same time to the U-turn.

[sinycalone]

17 minutes ago, aghst said:

If they did U-turn the NFLers, that would have knocked them out.  DeAngelo would still be working on the tile after the other teams have checked in.

They would have probably U-turned the brother sister in turn so either way, brother and sister would have been U-turned, though the smart thing for the NFLers would have been to use the second U-turn on one of the other two teams, break up the secret alliance.

But there probably would have been a confrontation too.  The Beards and the NFL team arrived at the same time to the U-turn.

The only problem with the NFLers UTurning one of the alliance teams....far less likely for one of them to be eliminated, then the Siblings.

[After7Only]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:44 PM, redfish said:

 

And for And for the alliance to accuse G/D benefiting the most for the alliance the other teams should realize that it's Will/James that are benefiting from the alliance. If the other 4 had noticed Will/James are usually top 3 on the bathmat and they found a way to draw attention away from them and make the other teammates resent/turn on each other while no one ever considers putting them in the U-Turn/Yield.

 

I totally agree W/J benefited the most from the alliance.  Hung and Chee helped them several times during the gardening task.   Which just annoyed me after they bitched about helping the NFLers so much.   I also think that was Will/James strategy to create drama with other teams to keep focus off themselves. 

On 12/3/2020 at 12:26 PM, iMonrey said:

 

I'm no fan of Will and James by any stretch of the imagination. But I would like to know why the gay couple is always accused of "mugging." 

I really took it to mean they have oversized personalities.   There’s at least one team like this every season.   See Team ⬇️

On 12/3/2020 at 6:03 PM, HurricaneVal said:

As far as mugging goes, I'd like to bring Team Fun in for arraignment....

 

[ByaNose]

18 hours ago, Netfoot said:

As far as I'm concerned, that is the only legitimate way to use the U-Turn/Yield. You nominate the team that is (or that you guess is) running last. That way they become even laster! Thereby giving yourself more minutes to be delayed at a challenge or by a taxi, and still get to the pitstop and still be not-last/not-eliminated.

I tend to agree with this now that I’ve read it. It’s not always the strongest team you need to get out but any team that might put you in last place at the mat. While I had wished they had taken out one of the “stronger” teams it really can be any team that might put you in last place that you want out. The NFL team took out the brother & sister and their plan worked out. So they were successful. I guess the real debate if it was smart or not. We’ll know next Wednesday if they come in 4th and are eliminated. 

[BarneySays]

On the u-turn, one change that would be beneficial is to prohibit a team from U-turning the team that has already used the u-turn on a team.  This would leave some element of surprise in trying to burn the second  u-turn.

i don’t think the beardo  wierdos would have u-turned the siblings because they wanted to get the nflers out.  Using the u-turn would have helped the nflers.  
 

i assume Aparna is still pissed because we will learn next week that the nflers come in fourth (no spoiler, just deduction).  I think she is being churlish, which just adds to the heap of shit that has been this season.  
 

as for the mugging, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  And I would argue that one who sees the complaint as homophobic only exposes their own homophobia.  There is a difference between being flamboyant, dramatic, etc. and being a preening attention whore.  Calling out the latter has nothing to do with the former.  Cha cha cha were utterly themselves and are much beloved.  This pair and the teams mentioned above- Tyler, the afghanimals, the hippies (the latter two being the worst IMO) are superciliously vain and attention grabbing.  TAR deserves great credit for being one of the earliest- if not the first- to fully represent gay people without hiding their affection or orientation.  It’s sad that their casting has slipped into stereotypes of preening “extra” gay men- perhaps it’s the perpetual millennial problem.

i found aparna’s hackneyed rant that they should have picked another (more competitive team) Was countered so sweetly by the blondes’ tongue in cheek riff on the “obviously we’re their top competition” shtick that it just makes me miss them more.

as for past alliances, I don’t recall any that took the form this one has.  The anti twin alliance was borne of personal pique and never involved four teams waiting to give answers to each other.  The cho pack comes closest, but they were driven by a moral agreement not to leave anyone behold (although it happened nonetheless), not an agreement to gun for other teams.  There’s a difference between the two, especially in terms of viewing.  I agree with the poster above that the season where the the globetrotters were handed answers- and their sense of entitlement in receiving them- was the most enervating as a viewer.  Until this season.  Good riddance to it.

ETA- it’s easy to remain calm when a poor performing team has not yet arrived at the tile task.  It was obvious the editing wanted us to believe the siblings were actually in the fight when they arrived at the tiles, but that they didn’t stand a chance.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by BarneySays

[lh25]

Add me to those who don't like the alliances.  Part of what I like about this show is watching teams figure out the tasks on their own, not getting fed answers.  Although it is fun in a way to watch it dawn on the alliance members that at some point, it will dissolve as there is only one winner.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:47 PM, chaifan said:

OK, I agree with everyone that Arpana was unnecessarily bitchy about the whole U Turn thing.  But, I thought it was hilarious that she was essentially trash talking DeAngelo, a Professional Football Player, and he couldn't handle it.  He just got so flustered and testy.  He really is a "dish it out but can't take it" type of guy.  Gary's a saint for carrying D through this race.  I loved his "I'm just going to take a little nap here" bit.

Add me to those who think that DeAngelo was not the least bit flustered by Aparna. He was flustered in general by his inability to do the task, but he talked trash right back. And Gary isn't a Saint. He's a Panther and a Brown. *grin*

On 12/3/2020 at 12:26 PM, iMonrey said:

Aparna: see Kaylynn and Haley on how to react to being U-Turned/Yielded.

I'm no fan of Will and James by any stretch of the imagination. But I would like to know why the gay couple is always accused of "mugging." This happened incessantly with Tyler and Korey too. Is it some kind of code? Does "mugging" really mean "acting effeminate"? Because while Will and James are certainly flamboyant gay men, I don't see them looking at the camera any more than any other team, so I can only conclude that the way they speak and act is referred to as "mugging" because it's less offensive than the alternative description. Nothing they do qualifies as the definition of "mugging" any more than anyone else.

No, mugging is not limited to gay teams, and not all gay teams mug.  The Amazing Race All-Star Muggers IMO include a few teams I presume are hetero: the Hippies, the Afghanimals and Team Fun.  

On 12/3/2020 at 11:07 PM, ByaNose said:

Wait! Isn’t AMNTM with female models? I’ve never watched the show but I know Tyra Banks hosted it. Is the show even on anymore? Was there a male version of this? Anyhoo, I only knew James because he would host a recap show on afterbuzz tv (an online show I think) and, he was always recapping TAR and Survivor. That was years ago though. So, it seems like the both of them are really involved in the reality world. There’s nothing wrong with that but it looks like they’ve been a actively wanting to be apart of it. I think Will or James have said they want to do Survivor, too. 

Towards the tail end ANTM had male models competing against female ones. I sort of want one or both of the boyfriends to be on Survivor because they seem like they would get destroyed.

On 12/4/2020 at 8:32 AM, snarts said:

What she's overlooking is that DeAngelo & Gary did not know if they were ahead of the teams on the other detour. 

While they could've yielded Riley/Madiosson, the fact that they were seconds behind them was a strong deterrent. No one wants to be that 'in your face' about it, as evidenced by the brothers comments that they too were planning to yield Eswar/Aparna given the circumstances.

The only yield that was certain to give DeAngelo & Gary a definite buffer was the one they chose.  The bad faith alliance play was made by the Riley/Madisson when they burned the board, not byDeAngelo & Gary.

Aparna in her interview seems to think that D/G would have been able to tell how many people had gotten to the point of the U-Turn board by seeing how many clues were there. I obviously don't know first-hand, but...that doesn't seem to be the way things work.

One could tell from the context that D/G were the first to the board because it seems likely that any first team there would have chosen to U-Turn somebody. But it's certainly at least possible that a first team or second team might have wanted to stay above the fray. 

But if it were possible to konw for 100 percent sure that the other teams were vulnerable to being U-turned, then I would tend to agree with Aparna. Either you eliminate the stronger team through the U-Turn or you give yourself two chances to not be last (as most likely, Beards or Team Cal use the second U-Turn on another team.)

On 12/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Netfoot said:

As far as I'm concerned, that is the only legitimate way to use the U-Turn/Yield. You nominate the team that is (or that you guess is) running last. That way they become even laster! Thereby giving yourself more minutes to be delayed at a challenge or by a taxi, and still get to the pitstop and still be not-last/not-eliminated.

It's just as legitimate to nominate a strong team having a not-so-great leg in the hopes that they will become last as it is to nominate the actual team that is in last place. The objective isn't just survive this leg. It's win the whole thing. Chances are any team that's U-turned is not going to beat you this time around, fine. But what about the next leg, and the leg after that? 

It's easy to say from the comfort of my apartment while sitting on my ass, but I would prefer to race against Team Cal any day versus any of the other four teams, each of whom has shown themselves to be capable of a first place finish. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Chicago Redshirt

[ByaNose]

I know for a few years they would put one extra envelope (I could be totally making this up) in the clue box to throw them off. Then I think they stopped that along the way and now put the actual amount of envelopes in the clue box. I still Aparna is still way too bitter after two years but then again they are just seeing this for the first time like we are. That said, she didn’t seem to have a problem when others used the U-Turn on the other racers. Once again, I can hardly wait till Tuesday to see how this plays out. It’s only a one hour episode so I’m going to soak in every moment. 

[chitowngirl]

Don’t they have to decide to Uturn/not Uturn before they get the clue? Then they wouldn’t know how many clues are in the box.

Edited December 6, 2020 by chitowngirl

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I know for a few years they would put one extra envelope (I could be totally making this up) in the clue box to throw them off. Then I think they stopped that along the way and now put the actual amount of envelopes in the clue box. I still Aparna is still way too bitter after two years but then again they are just seeing this for the first time like we are. That said, she didn’t seem to have a problem when others used the U-Turn on the other racers. Once again, I can hardly wait till Tuesday to see how this plays out. It’s only a one hour episode so I’m going to soak in every moment. 

At least facially, Aparna's beef is that "It's stupid of D/G to U-turn us when there are threats to be U-turned and that would be a smarter play."

So taking that on its face, she was upset not merely because they were targeted but also because to her them being targeted didn't make sense from a strategy perspective.  If indeed D/G knew for 100 percent that they could target Hung/Chee or the Boyfriend and have it be effective, I think Aparna would be correct under that premise. But unfortunately for her, I think she is incorrect about the premise, which is sort of arrogant for me to say, but I will say it anyway. 

Now from a practical perspective, it didn't matter much under the circumstances of the race. They almost certainly were not going to get to the U-turn first or second, given their having not done all that well, and in almost all permeutations where they arrive third, someone's likely to hit them either as their first choice or to save an alliance member. 

Arguably, Aparna might not have a problem with the other Yields/U-turns not because Team Cal dodged them but because they made sense to her.

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Don’t they have to decide to Uturn/not Uturn before they get the clue? Then they wouldn’t know how many clues are in the box.

That is the way that I remember it has always been presented in episodes. The racers say "I choose not to yield/u-turn" or put the person's picture up or whatever and then get the clue. But it's possible that there could be some behind-the-scenes shenanigans that Aparna is familiar with that we as viewers are not. Or it could be that she's bitter and just making excuses to keep her bitterness going.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Chicago Redshirt

[biakbiak]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:49 PM, sinycalone said:

Riley/Maddison had gotten to the UTurn first, they would have U-Turned the NFLers.  Let's say the BFs got there next....they would have UTruned Riley/Madison...burning the board.  Thus, D/Gary would have been pretty much guaranteed to finish last.

But they wouldn’t have. They discussed it on the boat before they got to the Uturn when they were still neck and neck that they were going to Uturn the siblings because they were so close to the NFLers and didn’t know where the other two were. The only way the alliance of the three would have worked is if two of three teams had arrived at the same time to Uturn D/G and then to burn the board so D/G couldn’t Uturn anyone else which was a glaring flaw in their plan. Yes, D’Angelo ended up sucking at the detour but if they had come at a different time maybe he would have seen the beginning of the demo who knows. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by biakbiak

[SVNBob]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Add me to those who think that DeAngelo was not the least bit flustered by Aparna. He was flustered in general by his inability to do the task, but he talked trash right back. And Gary isn't a Saint. He's a Panther and a Brown. *grin*

No, mugging is not limited to gay teams, and not all gay teams mug.  The Amazing Race All-Star Muggers IMO include a few teams I presume are hetero: the Hippies, the Afghanimals and Team Fun.  

 

1: Ba-dum-bum.  And *boo*.

2: AFAIK, Team Fun is only half-hetero.  Which makes them 4 kinds of mixed: mixed genders, mixed races, mixed sexualities, and mixed reaction by viewers.

[BK1978]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:24 AM, seacliffsal said:

And, on another note, I do think that Will and James mug for the cameras and in no way do I use that word as "code" for anything.  Sometimes an observation/opinion is just that, an observation/opinion.  I have had the same opinion of many teams throughout the season that has encompassed many different teams of many different relationships.

I was trying to put on finger on why I just don't like them.  I think that is the case.  I obviously cannot read their minds but to me it seems like they think they are charming villains like a Dr. Will from Big Brother.  However, they simply do not have the charm to pull it off and instead come off as trying to hard.  I think mugging for the cameras is a very apt description and it has nothing to do with them being gay.

People mug for the cameras regardless of sexual preference, race, gender, so forth and so on.

Also, I really hate that they are allowed to burn the U-Turn.  I think that should be against the rules.  I think you should either use it or not, but I do not think there should be an option to burn it.

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I was trying to put on finger on why I just don't like them.  I think that is the case.  I obviously cannot read their minds but to me it seems like they think they are charming villains like a Dr. Will from Big Brother.  However, they simply do not have the charm to pull it off and instead come off as trying to hard.  I think mugging for the cameras is a very apt description and it has nothing to do with them being gay.

People mug for the cameras regardless of sexual preference, race, gender, so forth and so on.

Also, I really hate that they are allowed to burn the U-Turn.  I think that should be against the rules.  I think you should either use it or not, but I do not think there should be an option to burn it.

I tend to think that now at this point in time when they are watching at home, they don't even think of themselves as villains.  Their perspective probably is that they are highly competitive and strategic and having the time of their lives.

We have discussed upthread about some of the ways to prevent the burning of the U Turn, and I agree with others that if there was some kind of way to prevent the U Turn of a team that had already passed through, then we wouldn't get the situations where a team is trying to use the U Turn in earnest but actually U Turns a team that has already passed.  Which is great TV.  

I do still think removing the faces of teams that have passed would be a good way to see where you currently stand, but can see why the producers wouldn't want to.  So therefore, I submit that another way to discourage the burning of the U Turn is to make the team that uses the second U Turn have to pay the price of a 30 minute penalty in order to use the second slot.  A team that really wants to use it to save themselves would almost certainly use it... if they are in second to last place, they would take a 30 minute penalty to set the last place team back by another hour or so.  But a team that is in second or third would then think twice about taking a 30 minute penalty because it would affect their own placement with respect to the other leading teams.

[sinycalone]

At this point in the race, I don't think worrying about who you are facing in the next leg is vital.  Concern yourself with surviving the current leg....and you UTurn accordingly.  Every time I see/hear a team debating hypothetical situations -- it reminds me of the idiot who had the Express Pass and did not want to use it because they might need it on a future leg.  His team was last at the time....and floundering at the task.  They were eliminated.

[Jobiska]

The pit stop was at Angkor Thom--double checked on a recap site--but I see that it is only 1.7 km from an entrance to Angkor Wat, and it would indeed be lovely if they got to visit both during their down time.  If I recall correctly, one season they actually showed some of a pit stop where they toured salt mines in Poland.  From which no large alliance ensued.

As Will is or was a model (not sure how much, but he does have an online portfolio), I think the sucking in the cheeks and posing are something he now probably does instinctively.  I will say that I never mind mugging.  I do understand why people perceive and react to it.  But it's not universal, as witness the TWoP recapper who couldn't stand the two-woman pair in Boston Rob's first TAR season (I think one of the women was named Debbie???) and kept complaining in the recaps about how they camera-mugged so incessantly.  In a season which had Boston Rob in it.  I felt that was rather ironic.  (And I don't mind Rob.  Or Afghanimals.  Or Team Fun.  Or Tyler.  Or even the hippies, during their season, though I soured on them afterward; though my enjoyment was at least partly because my son, young at the time, really liked them so I was happy for him).  To each their own!

I see cement tiles on just about every home reno show--but these were much prettier.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, sinycalone said:

At this point in the race, I don't think worrying about who you are facing in the next leg is vital.  Concern yourself with surviving the current leg....and you UTurn accordingly.  Every time I see/hear a team debating hypothetical situations -- it reminds me of the idiot who had the Express Pass and did not want to use it because they might need it on a future leg.  His team was last at the time....and floundering at the task.  They were eliminated.

I think it is a different dynamic than the failure to use the Express Pass. There were pros and cons of using it right then, and we know with the benefit of hindsight that they should have just used it. (Oy vey!)

Whereas a team that U-Turns or Yields has to expect that whoever they target is almost certainly going to end up doing worse than them barring an epic screw-up on their part. So that's why other considerations can and should come into play than merely ensuring one's survival. Whoever you U-Turn or Yield, you're virtually guaranteed to survive. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, SVNBob said:

1: Ba-dum-bum.  And *boo*.

2: AFAIK, Team Fun is only half-hetero.  Which makes them 4 kinds of mixed: mixed genders, mixed races, mixed sexualities, and mixed reaction by viewers.

Couldn't help myself: re: Saint.

Out of idle curiosity, which half? I don't remember either saying or doing anything that made me think they might be LGBTQ+. 

I should also say that at least for me, my reaction to mugging varies. I really disliked the amount/type of mugging by the Afghanimals, generally liked the Hippies, Tyler (his partner Korey didn't really mug IMO, but Tyler did enough for both) and Team Fun. 

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Out of idle curiosity, which half? I don't remember either saying or doing anything that made me think they might be LGBTQ+. 

Neither of them ever brought it up during their Races, but I believe Becca is not hetero.

Floyd is hetero for sure, since he said in an interview for S31 that he talked to Tyler and Korey about their experiences as white gay men in Uganda (a homophobic country) as compared to his as a straight black man.  But I think I've also heard him mention something about Becca having a female SO somewhere.  Possibly in one of their TAR recaps on their YouTube channel, or in some interview (possibly the same one as above.)

[sinycalone]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think it is a different dynamic than the failure to use the Express Pass. There were pros and cons of using it right then, and we know with the benefit of hindsight that they should have just used it. (Oy vey!)

Whereas a team that U-Turns or Yields has to expect that whoever they target is almost certainly going to end up doing worse than them barring an epic screw-up on their part. So that's why other considerations can and should come into play than merely ensuring one's survival. Whoever you U-Turn or Yield, you're virtually guaranteed to survive. 

Normally  I would agree with your second paragraph....however D/Gary had three teams working together to exchange info, protect their backs,  The NFLers were pretty sure the siblings would get no such help.

[Chicago Redshirt]

56 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

Normally  I would agree with your second paragraph....however D/Gary had three teams working together to exchange info, protect their backs,  The NFLers were pretty sure the siblings would get no such help.

Two issues with that.

First, the NFLers don't necessarily know how tight the "core alliance" is, and possibly even whether it exists. They seem to be operating under the notion that now that the Mine Five has gotten to the top half, it's every team for itself. (And indeed, when push comes to shove, we'll see how the core alliance hangs together, I wouldlike to think that when it comes to getting to the final three, everyone will just RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE).

The deeper problem is that regardless of how much the core alliance might want to protect each other, they really can't in a meaningful way from a U-turn. They can do things like the Beards did and burn the U-turn so that Team Cal had to face it alone. But they can't hang around the second half of the detour or give assistance to any core alliance members to help them in completing it. The second task is going to take as long as it takes, and in almost any situation other than a complete meltdown by the NFLers (or I suppose complete domination by the U-turned team) they should not be able to catch up.

If they could know for certain that the other teams would still be hit by a U-turn, it absolutely would be just as good to hit them from a "make the next leg" perspective and better from the "who do you want to face in the F3/F4" perspective. So I think that would be the right call. But I think Aparna is just wrong that D/G could know that for certain versus their 100 percent knowledge that Team Cal is behind them and that U-turning them would guarantee they would make it to F4. 

[sinycalone]

I've forgotten:  were Hung/Chee and The BFS at the tile task when The Bros were still working on making the tiles?  And if they were, did the Bros tell them about the oiling step before leaving?