S04.E08: 48:1

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As many nations condemn apartheid in South Africa, tension mounts between Thatcher and Elizabeth over their clashing opinions on applying sanctions.

Dropping on Sunday, November 15, 2020.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I have to get this out as I just started watching: SQUEEEE! Claire Foy!!!!

Okay, off to watching the rest.

[peridot]

I feel so terribly about the press secretary who's been serving for over 30 years.  He protested several times about the course of action, but he gets thrown under the bus so easily?

I would have definitely wrote a tell-all if I were him.

It seemed that Thatcher was both isolationist and racist.  I hated that she had no empathy for the people suffering under apartheid and was all about the money.

[swanpride]

Naturally Thatcher was racist. And it is true that she had little time for the Commonwealth. Thatcher's interest was more focussed on the EU, though even that was problematic due to her being into it mostly for what she could get out of it. She saw the financial opportunities, but she never got the notion of working with others on equal footing. Hence her little speech about the past Empire was a little bit odd, since she very much believed in English superiority (see all the opt-outs she got for the UK from the EU), she just had no time for the worries of those states. And, as it was pointed out, her son very much profiteered from her refusal to truly commit to sanctions. Thankfully other countries (not just Commonwealth countries) did what she had no interest in doing.

It's not mentioned in the show, but Thatcher also tried to block German reunification. The main reason was that she feared a reunited Germany would dominate the EU too much. Though in reality, what lead to Germany eventually taking such a dominant role was more the constant refusal of the Brits to play ball with everyone else.  

[MrsR]

Lovely to see Claire again. May I presume she stiffed them for some big bucks?

Well my vocabulary was certainly improved with that one.

And well...meow!

 

 

[dubstepford wife]

I kind of love the scene where Charles calls Andrew "fringe."  This show has not been subtle when it comes to Andy, from foreshadowing his problems with underage girls to him wanting a larger royal role for himself and his children, and Charles throwing it back in his face.  I don't think Peter Morgan is any fan of old Andrew.

This show is certainly not being kind to Thatcher.  I wasn't around for that era so I don't know what's true and what's fiction, but if even half of this is factually accurate she is not coming across well.  Opposition to ending apartheid is never a good look, regardless of consequences for the economy.  And if that thing about her son being a businessman in South Africa, which the show implies colored her decisions towards the country, is true, then that should be grounds for removal from office.  It's outright corruption.

Edited November 16, 2020 by dubstepford wife

[vibeology]

57 minutes ago, dubstepford wife said:

I kind of love the scene where Charles calls Andrew "fringe."  This show has not been subtle when it comes to Andy, from foreshadowing his problems with underage girls to him wanting a larger royal role for himself and his children, and Charles throwing it back in his face.  I don't think Peter Morgan is any fan of old Andrew.

I mean, I laughed because I do hate Andrew but that is an awful thing to say to family on their wedding day. And he's also saying it to Anne and Edward who are even further down the line. But Andrew is such an attention hog and so self-important that I do enjoy seeing him taken down a peg.

[swanpride]

Quote

 And if that thing about her son being a businessman in South Africa, which the show implies colored her decisions towards the country, is true, then that should be grounds for removal from office. 

Oh, that's true. Well, that he was a businessman, but she naturally denied that it coloured her decision. I went into a little bit more detail regarding Marc Thatcher in the gossip discussion.

I think a lot of the perception of Thatcher has changed with hindsight, though.

[vibeology]

I love that they drove home at the end that she was racist and corrupt and as emotional in making her decisions as the women she disdained. (And just to be clear, I don't think emotional has anything to do with gender. Men can be very emotional and woman can be unemotional. How that is expressed and how the world responds to those expressions tend to be gendered but having emotions? That's for all genders.) 

Her favourite son needed the economy to stay open with South Africa and that drove her to stand against the Queen and most of the rest of the world. 

[swanpride]

Quote

And just to be clear, I don't think emotional has anything to do with gender. Men can be very emotional and woman can be unemotional. How that is expressed and how the world responds to those expressions tend to be gendered but having emotions? That's for all genders

Naturally it doesn't, but there are certain things society has decided to code as "feminine" and others which have been coded as "masculine". And it is kind of gross that a lot of "feminine" things are actually pretty good approaches to conflict. In reality there are naturally women who act very "masculine" (see Thatcher) and men who have no problem with embracing a supposedly "feminine" approach.

[Bananna]

If only Tommy Lascelles was still around, the crisis would have been averted!

LOL at Charles calling his siblings "the fringe" think it's one of the few times this season we haven't seen him moping. Tom Byrne was perfectly cast as Andrew; he's so smarmy it's great.

[Brn2bwild]

41 minutes ago, Bananna said:

If only Tommy Lascelles was still around, the crisis would have been averted!

LOL at Charles calling his siblings "the fringe" think it's one of the few times this season we haven't seen him moping. Tom Byrne was perfectly cast as Andrew; he's so smarmy it's great.

Only thing: was Charles thinking about slimming down the monarchy even then?

[Ellaria]

Finally, an episode that shows the true nature of Margaret Thatcher. Her pompous bearing in her conversation with the Queen was infuriating. I wanted to slap her in that stiff, hair-sprayed head. And, of course, the press secretary gets tossed under the bus to protect the sovereign’s poor judgement. Glad to know that he became a best selling author.

Nice to see the four adult Windsor kids together and realize that they are a miserable lot. Putting what we currently know about Andrew aside, he really is a spoiled, whiny brat. Hurrah to Charles for calling him “fringe.” I’d love to know what he calls him these days.

Hello, Fergie! Welcome to hell!

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Finally, an episode that shows the true nature of Margaret Thatcher. Her pompous bearing in her conversation with the Queen was infuriating. I wanted to slap her in that stiff, hair-sprayed head. And, of course, the press secretary gets tossed under the bus to protect the sovereign’s poor judgement. Glad to know that he became a best selling author.

I need to re-watch some of this season with particular attention to Maggie T's hair. I could be wrong, but that head of hair seemed to get bigger and bigger as the season went on, but I think it had lost some size by the time she was ousted from the party leadership. Hmm.

[dubbel zout]

It might have been 48 against 1 when it came to sanctioning South Africa, but that 1 was the big cheese.

I don't think the queen ever wore the Vladimir tiara without either the pearl or emerald pendants. But that was probably pretty hard to duplicate.

Olivia Colman's face during the queen's meeting with Thatcher after the newspaper article was a marvel.

"That was impressively cunty." *chef's kiss*  Brava, Anne.

Palace press secretaries are usually the one who take the blame when the press gets out of the palace's control. It's not fair, but it's part of the job to fall on one's sword when necessary.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

"That was impressively cunty." *chef's kiss*  Brava, Anne.

It was actually Edward who said that. Anne was pretty much silent during that whole exchange.

[LilWharveyGal]

32 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It was actually Edward who said that. 

Fun random factoid for fans of British TV - the actor who plays Edward is the son of Celia Imrie and the late Benjamin Whitrow, who played Mr. Bennet in the '95 Pride & Prejudice.

[dubbel zout]

50 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It was actually Edward who said that.

Really? Well, well, well. Edward does something useful.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

56 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Finally, an episode that shows the true nature of Margaret Thatcher. Her pompous bearing in her conversation with the Queen was infuriating. I wanted to slap her in that stiff, hair-sprayed head. And, of course, the press secretary gets tossed under the bus to protect the sovereign’s poor judgement. Glad to know that he became a best selling author.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Thatcher is straight up villainous in this portrayal and if she really opposed sanctions to starve off apartheid the it is justified 

[swanpride]

Yes, Thatcher opposed sanctions. And yes, her son was a businessman in South Africa. She always denied that there was any relation between those two, though.

Question: The top secretary or whatever it is for the Queen, is that the same character she wanted to promote too early in season 1, or is this someone else?

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Question: The top secretary or whatever it is for the Queen, is that the same character she wanted to promote too early in season 1, or is this someone else?

Yes, the Private Secretary is Martin Charteris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Charteris,_Baron_Charteris_of_Amisfield

[swanpride]

Mmm...according to the Wikipedia page he should already be retired at this point...oh well, who cares.

[Roseanna]

49 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Mmm...according to the Wikipedia page he should already be retired at this point...oh well, who cares.

Yes, it's clear that they must change some minor things. If there were a new Private Secretary, he must have been introduced. 

Spoiler

It will be interesting to see whether they give the brother-in-law to Diana, Robert Fellowes, the Private Secretary in 1990-1999, a prominent role in the next season. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fellowes,_Baron_Fellowes

 

[Spartan Girl]

“That was impressively c***y” pretty much sums up the whole episode. Not just Charles being an asshole, but also Margaret Thatcher being a racist bitch and Elizabeth trying to shame her by allowing the story to leak.

Loved the Claire Foy flashback with young Liz giving the speech and the whole world listening. Gave an ironic note at the end when she and the staff pinned the blame on poor Michael. Margaret  was right: Darwin has nothing on them.

It really sucks that the first female prime minister of England was a racist who didn’t give a crap about helping other women succeed. But that’s life. Some of the people who make it to the top aren’t always the best.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Helena Dax]

This episode was great! Thatcher was a truly horrid woman. I mean, I already knew some things about her, but I see she was awful as a person as well. Otoh, the Queen made a mistake when she went against her Prime Minister.

I'm enjoying all the digs directed at Andrew so much! And I loved to have Claire Foy back for this episode.

[WatchrTina]

I think I may be becoming an honorary British Monarchist because the scene of Thatcher repeatedly interrupting the QUEEN was just INFURIATING.  Then again, I was equally mortified by that one courtier being sacrificed in order for the Queen to save face.  I'm going to have to watch the episode again because, unless I'm mistaken, the courier who was dismissed is the one who advised AGAINST the leak to the press.  If so . . . damn. "Palace Intrigue" is COLD.

Edited November 17, 2020 by WatchrTina

[Atlanta]

14 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Yes! Yes! Yes! Thatcher is straight up villainous in this portrayal and if she really opposed sanctions to starve off apartheid the it is justified 

I'm waiting for her to be twirling her mustache from her underground lair. GA's portrayal comes across as cartoonish. 

In general, they've used a lot of creative license this season. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8952991/The-Crown-true-false-Netflix-shows-twisted-version-royal-history.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957695/Queens-former-press-secretary-Dickie-Arbiter-blasts-scenes-Crown.html

[PeterPirate]

A quick historical read.

How Margaret Thatcher helped end apartheid – despite herself

Edited November 17, 2020 by PeterPirate

[swanpride]

Oh please...that article was written two days after she died. I would take it with a HUGE grain of salt. In death even the most despicable actions are often given a positive twist.

[tennisgurl]

Claire Foy! I missed her so much! We even got a picture of Bertie!

Margaret Thatcher sure was a piece of work, especially if, like the show implies, she really was being influenced by her son's business interests in South Africa. She was not only racist and isolationist, but was just so smug and rude about it, lecturing the queen about the good of the country she has given her whole life to. Her whole speech about teaching people to look out for "number one" and only then, maybe consider helping other people, really seemed to say a lot both about her as a politician and her as a person. The struggles of people being horribly oppressed in South African doesn't matter at all to her, its all about the money and trying to keep England on top. I also think she really missed the point of the Good Samaritan. That Mandella quote about how sanctions helped them to defeat apartheid seemed pointed towards Thatcher. 

The poor press secretary, thirty years of loyal service and he suddenly gets sacked because the palace needed a scapegoat, even if he was the one who advised them not to leak the bad blood between Thatcher and Elizabeth. I am glad that he at least had a successful, and probably more fulfilling, career as a novelist. 

I think this might be the first time that the four Windsor kids were all alone in a scene together, and of course its bitter and snaky and whiny. Charles telling Andrew that he was a "fringe" royal really was, as Edward said, impressively cunty, but considering what a smug ass Andrew is and how he was just shit talking Charles to their mother, I cant even really blame him. 

Olivia Coleman did a great job this week, you could really see how angry Elizabeth was getting as Thatcher kept insulting her and her position, but she was still trying to keep her poker face. 

All of the leaders of the Commonwealth all talking and then getting quiet when Thatcher walked in felt like a scene straight out of Mean Girls. "Have you ever realized someone was just talking about your behind your back? Have it ever happened to you sixty times in a row?" 

[Ohiopirate02]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:51 PM, Jeeves said:

I need to re-watch some of this season with particular attention to Maggie T's hair. I could be wrong, but that head of hair seemed to get bigger and bigger as the season went on, but I think it had lost some size by the time she was ousted from the party leadership. Hmm.

I've noticed that her hair changes size depending on what she is feeling or doing that day.  When she is upstairs at Downing St., it is smaller.   Her hair becomes massive when she is girding her loins politically.   It really is her armor.  

 

On 11/16/2020 at 9:04 AM, dubstepford wife said:

I kind of love the scene where Charles calls Andrew "fringe."  This show has not been subtle when it comes to Andy, from foreshadowing his problems with underage girls to him wanting a larger royal role for himself and his children, and Charles throwing it back in his face.  I don't think Peter Morgan is any fan of old Andrew.

This show is certainly not being kind to Thatcher.  I wasn't around for that era so I don't know what's true and what's fiction, but if even half of this is factually accurate she is not coming across well.  Opposition to ending apartheid is never a good look, regardless of consequences for the economy.  And if that thing about her son being a businessman in South Africa, which the show implies colored her decisions towards the country, is true, then that should be grounds for removal from office.  It's outright corruption.

While it is easy to dunk on Margaret Thatcher decades after her tenure as prime minister, the show is not really worse than history.   The show is not twisting history to make Margaret look worse than what she actually did.  I know her words to the Queen expressing her condolences back in episode one were what she said about Irish Nationalist just not in that particular moment.  Her being a racist is not a stretch for me. 

[Capricasix]

Just started this episode, and I miss Claire Foy so much! OC is much less stiff in the role this season, but damn if Claire wasn’t an almost impossible act to follow.

[txhorns79]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

Loved the Claire Foy flashback with young Liz giving the speech and the whole world listening.

I think the people we saw were supposed to represent the entire empire (at the time), rather than it being a world wide event.  I did love seeing Claire Foy! 

 

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Olivia Coleman did a great job this week, you could really see how angry Elizabeth was getting as Thatcher kept insulting her and her position, but she was still trying to keep her poker face. 

I'm of two minds on this.  Margaret Thatcher's position was indefensible, but I also think the Queen wildly overstepped and Thatcher was right to be furious with her. 

 

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

I think this might be the first time that the four Windsor kids were all alone in a scene together, and of course its bitter and snaky and whiny. Charles telling Andrew that he was a "fringe" royal really was, as Edward said, impressively cunty, but considering what a smug ass Andrew is and how he was just shit talking Charles to their mother, I cant even really blame him. 

The whole thing was fascinating.  Andrew, Edward and Anne may want to take a look at Margaret as a warning for their future once they go from being the children of the Sovereign to the siblings then (eventually) the aunt and uncles of Sovereign. 

[benteen]

Wow, it was GREAT having Claire Foy return and she made the most out of her scene.  I think Olivia has been really good on this show but when Claire Foy was back, her presence just said "Queen Elizabeth."

I have to admit, I like the image of the Queen and Thatcher bringing their purses into battle.

Gillian Anderson does a lot better when she works off of Olivia Colman and when her character raises her voice because she isn't...talking...soooo....sloooowly.  But her performance has not been a highlight of this season.

[ProudMary]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:19 AM, MrsR said:

Lovely to see Claire again. May I presume she stiffed them for some big bucks?

I haven't yet read anything about the filming of that scene, so we'll probably find out eventually, but my initial thought was that it was a scene filmed during the first season that was, for some reason, unused.

Edited to add: Nope, my assumption was wrong. Claire Foy filmed the scene in November, 2019.

Claire Foy Returns as Queen Elizabeth in Season 4 of 'The Crown'

Edited November 19, 2020 by ProudMary

[bijoux]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:04 PM, dubstepford wife said:

I kind of love the scene where Charles calls Andrew "fringe."  This show has not been subtle when it comes to Andy, from foreshadowing his problems with underage girls to him wanting a larger royal role for himself and his children, and Charles throwing it back in his face.  I don't think Peter Morgan is any fan of old Andrew.

I unreservedly love it. Incredibly cunty indeed. Andrew's whining about not being the centre of attention on his special day was insufferable. Good on Charles for immediately cutting him at the knees. 

On 11/16/2020 at 8:42 PM, Brn2bwild said:

Only thing: was Charles thinking about slimming down the monarchy even then?

I think Andrew himself mentioned something about it in an earlier episode. Maybe when he came to tell Elizabeth about his upcoming marriage. 

On 11/17/2020 at 1:45 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

Finally, an episode that shows the true nature of Margaret Thatcher. Her pompous bearing in her conversation with the Queen was infuriating. I wanted to slap her in that stiff, hair-sprayed head. And, of course, the press secretary gets tossed under the bus to protect the sovereign’s poor judgement. Glad to know that he became a best selling author.

I wanted to snatch her purse and smack her with it. Both her rhetoric and the fact that she wouldn't let the other person in the conversation finish their sentence were infuriating, queen or no queen. 

[BitterApple]

On 11/17/2020 at 6:58 PM, txhorns79 said:

 

I'm of two minds on this.  Margaret Thatcher's position was indefensible, but I also think the Queen wildly overstepped and Thatcher was right to be furious with her. 

I agree. Thatcher was horrendous, but at the end of the day the Windsors are nothing more than figureheads who cut ribbons and christen ships. They don't have the pressure of making decisions that have real-world consequences for millions of people. Obviously sanctions should've been a no-brainer, but the Queen definitely overstepped her bounds.

With that said, I love how the scandal eclipsed sniveling Andrew's wedding. 

[3 is enough]

Small nitpick, but during the opening sequence when they were showing the various Commonwealth nations while the Queen was giving her speech they omitted Canada.  Pissed this Canadian off.

[Cheezwiz]

6 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Small nitpick, but during the opening sequence when they were showing the various Commonwealth nations while the Queen was giving her speech they omitted Canada.  Pissed this Canadian off.

Yeah, they skipped Canada in that sequence, but Australia got a nod. Probably because it wouldn't be obvious to viewers what Canada was, unless they showed people playing hockey? Canada didn't even have a maple-leaf flag at that point, so they couldn't have even used that as a background clue. Later on, at the Commonwealth Conference, I did see someone sitting at the big round conference table with a little Canadian flag in front of him, but it was a brief camera pan to the right. I'm assuming this was probably supposed to be Brian Mulroney.

There was a lot of funny stuff in this episode - I loved the verbal sparring between the Queen and Thatcher. I wanted to cheer when the Queen stated that she too saw herself as a "tribal leader in an eccentric costume" - totally laughed at this.

Also loved Charles laying the smack-down on bratty self-important Andrew. You can tell the show-runners REALLY hate Andrew.

 

 

[Gareth3]

7 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Small nitpick, but during the opening sequence when they were showing the various Commonwealth nations while the Queen was giving her speech they omitted Canada. 

I'll still trying to decide whether the sheep were Australia or New Zealand. 

[3 is enough]

9 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Yeah, they skipped Canada in that sequence, but Australia got a nod. Probably because it wouldn't be obvious to viewers what Canada was, unless they showed people playing hockey? Canada didn't even have a maple-leaf flag at that point, so they couldn't have even used that as a background clue. Later on, at the Commonwealth Conference, I did see someone sitting at the big round conference table with a little Canadian flag in front of him, but it was a brief camera pan to the right. I'm assuming this was probably supposed to be Brian Mulroney.

I did notice Mulroney- I must confess I had to check who was prime minister at that time- couldn't remember if it was him or John Turner.  

They could have shown the Rockies, or Niagara Falls, or a farmer cutting wheat on the prairies- it's just that Canada's sheer size makes it a huge part of the Commonwealth.

9 hours ago, Gareth3 said:

I'll still trying to decide whether the sheep were Australia or New Zealand. 

I'm thinking Australia- it seemed that the background did not look as lush and green as New Zealand.  So one of those countries got stiffed too.  Obviously they could not show every single country in the Commonwealth, but it still seemed like a glaring omission.

[secnarf]

21 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Yeah, they skipped Canada in that sequence, but Australia got a nod. Probably because it wouldn't be obvious to viewers what Canada was, unless they showed people playing hockey? Canada didn't even have a maple-leaf flag at that point, so they couldn't have even used that as a background clue. Later on, at the Commonwealth Conference, I did see someone sitting at the big round conference table with a little Canadian flag in front of him, but it was a brief camera pan to the right. I'm assuming this was probably supposed to be Brian Mulroney.

 

 

Canada has had its current flag since 1965.

It was less than a year after my mother immigrated, and she still has the little flag pin that she was given at school.

[Cheezwiz]

5 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Canada has had its current flag since 1965.

It was less than a year after my mother immigrated, and she still has the little flag pin that she was given at school.

Yes, the maple leaf flag was adopted in the 60's, so still pretty recent! Prior to that, Canada used some sort of variation that incorporated the the British flag. Canada is a relative young'un compared to other Western nations.

[Lazlo]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:40 AM, 3 is enough said:

Small nitpick, but during the opening sequence when they were showing the various Commonwealth nations while the Queen was giving her speech they omitted Canada.  Pissed this Canadian off.

 

They also left out Ireland, which in 1947 was still part of the Commonwealth (we left in 1949.)

[PeterPirate]

A platoon of Royal Canadian Mounted Police would have worked.  

[SoWindsor]

Am i the only one who thought I had mistakenly put on an episode from season 1?

[SeanC]

As a minor thing, I do wonder how long the show is going to extend Martin's tenure as private secretary (in reality he retired in 1977, now he's logged almost a full decade of additional service on the show).

[ahpny]

On 11/16/2020 at 7:45 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

Finally, an episode that shows the true nature of Margaret Thatcher. Her pompous bearing in her conversation with the Queen was infuriating.

 

On 11/17/2020 at 12:29 PM, WatchrTina said:

I think I may be becoming an honorary British Monarchist because the scene of Thatcher repeatedly interrupting the QUEEN was just INFURIATING.  

Whatever awfulness Thatcher embodied, as shown here or in real life, I side with her in that this discussion with the Queen. Thatcher was right. The Queen was wrong. Policy - even wrong or racist policy - was Thatcher's exclusive domain. The Queen, by her own strenuous argument to Charles (who echoed those comments back to his siblings in the "cunty" discussion), must not express opinions on policy. "No one wants to here them" apparently applied only to Charles, and not to her. The Queen blatantly violated that rule, lied about her blatant violation, and then threw her loyal, long-serving and apparently talented writer-press person under the bus with no apparent concern or remorse. Lovely.

I also found that conversation infuriating, but not because Thatcher "repeatedly interrupted" the Queen, but because of the Queen's repeated efforts to interrupt Thatcher - which Thatcher appropriately rebuffed. If the Queen can't comply with one minor rule - keep your mouth shut - then no deference is she due and the entire enterprise will crumble. For all the minions of supplicants who curtsy before her and "ma'am" her to death in recognition of their place, the Queen did not know her place. Her place is smiling and waving as she cuts a ribbon at a new sewage treatment plant. Not pronouncing policy on critical foreign policy matters.

Edited November 22, 2020 by ahpny

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

threw her loyal, long-serving and apparently talented writer-press person under the bus with no apparent concern or remorse. Lovely.

I liked the postscript that he became a bestselling author.

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

Not pronouncing policy on critical foreign policy matters.

The queen can advise the PM on anything. That's one of her duties. The problem here was that Elizabeth's opinions were made public.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

 

Whatever awfulness Thatcher embodied, as shown here or in real life, I side with her in that this discussion with the Queen. Thatcher was right. The Queen was wrong. Policy - even wrong or racist policy - was Thatcher's exclusive domain. The Queen, by her own strenuous argument to Charles (who echoed those comments back to his siblings in the "cunty" discussion), must not express opinions on policy. "No one wants to here them" apparently applied only to Charles, and not to her. The Queen blatantly violated that rule, lied about her blatant violation, and then threw her loyal, long-serving and apparently talented writer-press person under the bus with no apparent concern or remorse. Lovely.

I also found that conversation infuriating, but not because Thatcher "repeatedly interrupted" the Queen, but because of the Queen's repeated efforts to interrupt Thatcher - which Thatcher appropriately rebuffed. If the Queen can't comply with one minor rule - keep your mouth shut - then no deference is she due and the entire enterprise will crumble. For all the minions of supplicants who curtsy before her and "ma'am" her to death in recognition of their place, the Queen did not know her place. Her place is smiling and waving as she cuts a ribbon at a new sewage treatment plant. Not pronouncing policy on critical foreign policy matters.

You have misunderstood.  The Queen must not say her opinion in public, but her constitutional duty is "advice,  warn and encourage" in private.  That's way she meets the Prime Minister every week.