S04.E08: 48:1

[CeeBeeGee]

 

On 11/17/2020 at 5:14 PM, tennisgurl said:

Margaret Thatcher sure was a piece of work, especially if, like the show implies, she really was being influenced by her son's business interests in South Africa. She was not only racist and isolationist, but was just so smug and rude about it, lecturing the queen about the good of the country she has given her whole life to. Her whole speech about teaching people to look out for "number one" and only then, maybe consider helping other people, really seemed to say a lot both about her as a politician and her as a person. The struggles of people being horribly oppressed in South African doesn't matter at all to her, its all about the money and trying to keep England on top. I also think she really missed the point of the Good Samaritan. That Mandella quote about how sanctions helped them to defeat apartheid seemed pointed towards Thatcher. 

I think this might be the first time that the four Windsor kids were all alone in a scene together, and of course its bitter and snaky and whiny. Charles telling Andrew that he was a "fringe" royal really was, as Edward said, impressively cunty, but considering what a smug ass Andrew is and how he was just shit talking Charles to their mother, I cant even really blame him. 

Olivia Coleman did a great job this week, you could really see how angry Elizabeth was getting as Thatcher kept insulting her and her position, but she was still trying to keep her poker face.  

The scene with the four siblings was priceless!

On 11/17/2020 at 6:51 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

While it is easy to dunk on Margaret Thatcher decades after her tenure as prime minister, the show is not really worse than history.   The show is not twisting history to make Margaret look worse than what she actually did.  I know her words to the Queen expressing her condolences back in episode one were what she said about Irish Nationalist just not in that particular moment.  Her being a racist is not a stretch for me. 

 

On 11/29/2020 at 11:02 AM, merylinkid said:

Andrew was a whiny brat.   "Oh the papers are covering a major political event instead of my wedding."   Well yes.   You weren't even the spare at that point Andrew.   Nobody gave a damn.   Which is not actually accurate.   It was a big event.   Not as big as Charles and Diana but still worldwide coverage and the streets filled.   

It was a big event! My mom and I woke up early that morning, had a proper English breakfast and enjoyed the whole thing. I'm embarrassed to admit, I actually wrote a letter to Sarah saying good luck from this American. Sarah was seen as a breath of fresh air, "Jolly Hockey Sticks." I am woefully unknowledgeable about British politics in the '80s so this episode was an eye-opener for me. The montage where over and over and over again, Thatcher kept sending back the document (with her goddamn theatrical sighs) was literally enraging. How do you struggle over condemning fucking racist South Africa, for God's sake?

[blackwing]

It was great seeing Claire Foy.  I wonder what the reasoning was behind having her back... just for the sake of having her back?  They could have shot another scene that could have explained Britain's long history with South Africa without showing Young Elizabeth.  Regardless, I really did enjoy seeing her.  I think Olivia Colman has been much better as Queen in Season 4 than she was in Season 3, but she doesn't hold a candle to Claire Foy.  Claire Foy even has the real Queen's voice down very well... Olivia sounds mostly like Olivia.

I did like the dig that Elizabeth got in at Mark Thatcher and Margaret's response.  "Oh, your favourite child.  The explorer."  "That was only that one time."

[swanpride]

I think the point was mostly to show the parallels between her and Thatcher and underline that they are the same age.

[qtpye]

https://www.gofugyourself.com/the-crown-blows-off-andrew-for-thatcher-12-2020
 

Interesting take on this episode 

[ombelico]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:05 PM, blackwing said:

It was great seeing Claire Foy.  I wonder what the reasoning was behind having her back... just for the sake of having her back?  They could have shot another scene that could have explained Britain's long history with South Africa without showing Young Elizabeth. 

The speech that Elizabeth gave from South Africa on her 21st birthday is a famous part of her early life and development, and the vow she made in it is often cited as a major reason that she will never abdicate, no matter how old she gets. Large parts of the speech in the show were copied almost verbatim from the real speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIdbbpOj1iw&ab_channel=TheRoyalFamily

I had been surprised that it wasn't incorporated in the first season since it's such a critical event in her early life, but it makes sense that Morgan "saved" it until this episode focusing on the Commonwealth and its importance to Elizabeth. Plus, the speech happened to be given in South Africa so the relevance to the issue of apartheid sanctions was as high as it could get. It's great that Foy was willing/able to return because honestly I think if the show had never been able to incorporate this particular speech, I would have thought they missed one of the main things that drives Elizabeth to this day.

[Popples]

On 11/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, chocolatine said:

I have to admit I was shocked to hear Edward use the c-word. I thought the Royals (and the British upper classes in general) had perfected the art form of delivering the most cutting insults very eloquently, without using foul language.

The very first episode had George VI telling a dirty limerick about a Duchess of Bray (Brey?) who spelled "c***" with a "k".

In another, I think the one about the coronation, Edward VIII, Duke of Windsor, initiated sex with Wallis by saying, "Shall we fuck?"

It seems to show they're not above profanity.

[Eri]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:27 PM, Neurochick said:

That said, I thought it was interesting to see Thatcher actually cooking in the beginning of the episode, she was cooking for her cabinet members? 

I cringed the whole time - she was definitely a sexist product of her time.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 9:34 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

YES! and when the Queen stood up - Margaret stayed seated......in front of the footman no less.  I was livid.  

I guess there's a reason why Churchill said that former PMs always stood during their audiences with former kings and queens like privvy counselors - something similar must have happened before LOL

Edited January 28, 2021 by Eri

[Deskisamess]

Those who mentioned the "c" word being used...it is used in the very first episode of the show. The King is practicing his speech, while being dressed, and he recites a limerick that contains the "c" word.

It's at the top of my least favorite words to hear. I'm not a Brit, so don't know how the word is taken there. In the US, it's not a word used very often in polite society.

[emmawoodhouse]

It's used much freer in GB. It's not considered the slur it is in the States. Source: my friend in Northern Ireland.

[Camera One]

Just when I was starting to enjoy Olivia Colman's performance by severing in my mind any connection to Claire Foy's Elizabeth, we finally get a cameo.  

This episode was interesting, and it's nice being able to root for Elizabeth.  But it really turned south, and then the episode ended reflecting badly on her since the poor press secretary had to pay the price.  I guess it's amazing that she was successful at keeping her opinions to herself for 30 years.

You'd think Elizabeth would have consulted Philip before she rashly decided to leak her true feelings to the press.  That's the thing with this show.  People seem to make decisions in isolation when that seems rather unrealistic.

The Margaret Thatcher vs Elizabeth scenes were good.  It's much better than her disinterested/annoyed-for-no-reason demeanor towards Wilson last season, though the actor who played Wilson was a highlight.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Camera One

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Once again, in a "faceoff" audience, Thatcher describes a steadfast women who loves her country and embraces "duty."  She was describing Elizabeth Regina, as well as herself.  Did Elizabeth understand that this was an "out" for her?  If she had affirmed what MT said and expressed the slightest apology with assurance that the Palace would never be a party to anything like it again, it would have ended the "crisis."

Charteris did not first ask Shea to "Do sit down." as he was about to lay down the hammer.  Opportunity lost.  Ultimately, this was Charteris' failure.  He was the one who left it to Shea.  No specific guidance or warnings.  He made certain to establish plausible deniability if/when blame was to be apportioned.

I note that the children heirs were all a flutter over Mummy having made a serious error, of which she had warned them countless times from making.  Did any one of them pause for a second to recognize and take to heart just how wise those admonishments were?  Right.

 

 

[PeterPirate]

This is my favorite episode of the season.  I really enjoy the sparring between Thatcher and the Queen.  Claire Foy's cameo highlighted how much her portrayal of Elizabeth was more animated than Olivia Coleman's.  So it was good to see Elizabeth really assert herself for the only time during the Coleman era. 

Regarding Thatcher, I find it unfortunate the show did not mention her interactions with Mikhail Gorbachev.  Micheal Shea resigned as Press Secretary in 1987.  Thatcher first met Gorbachev in 1984, and soon after she informed President Reagan that they could do "business together".  Imho this was instrumental in ending the Cold War and making it possible for reform in South Africa.  Whatever one thinks of Western Civilization/Imperialism, the Russian version is much, much worse, imho.  

The rest of the season is sort of a blur to me.