S02.E17: Bris-fully Ignorant

[Pepper Mostly]

12 minutes ago, BravoAddict72 said:

I was born in the US in the 70's and they didn't use car seats then. My mom held me in her arms in the front seat when they brought me home and I was fine. They only went a few blocks. I am sure the baby would have been fine.

But now its understood that a baby is safer in a car seat. I mean, pregnant women were encouraged to smoke too, to keep their appetites down so they wouldn't gain weight.  Lots of things that were accepted 50 years ago are understood to be not very salubrious today. I can't stand Ari but she wants her baby to be safe, can't fault her for that. 

[kirklandia]

5 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I can't stand Ari but she wants her baby to be safe, can't fault her for that. 

Agreed. But when they got a ride back to the hospital for the baby's check-up, I did wonder if the car seat was strapped in. Neither Ari nor Biniyam were wearing seatbelts. I wonder if the vehicle even had them…

[BravoAddict72]

8 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

But now its understood that a baby is safer in a car seat. I mean, pregnant women were encouraged to smoke too, to keep their appetites down so they wouldn't gain weight.  Lots of things that were accepted 50 years ago are understood to be not very salubrious today. I can't stand Ari but she wants her baby to be safe, can't fault her for that. 

I am not saying it is not needed at all, but it was just a few blocks. In a country where they don't use car seats anyway. 

[Neurochick]

41 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

But now its understood that a baby is safer in a car seat. I mean, pregnant women were encouraged to smoke too, to keep their appetites down so they wouldn't gain weight.  Lots of things that were accepted 50 years ago are understood to be not very salubrious today. I can't stand Ari but she wants her baby to be safe, can't fault her for that. 

This is true.  But the problem I have with Ari is that she wants everything to be HER WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.  She's not in the US, she's in Ethiopia; to me she comes off as a pushy, rude American trying to push her will on everybody else.  

And Ari doesn't seem to understand that she didn't have her baby by the Immaculate Conception, the baby is Bini's too.   

[Pepper Mostly]

9 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

This is true.  But the problem I have with Ari is that she wants everything to be HER WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.  She's not in the US, she's in Ethiopia; to me she comes off as a pushy, rude American trying to push her will on everybody else.  

And Ari doesn't seem to understand that she didn't have her baby by the Immaculate Conception, the baby is Bini's too.   

I am not disputing any of this at all. Its been clear from the beginning that she, like Deavan, expects her sperm donor to become some kind super hybrid father/husband/provider who also defers to her every pronouncement. 

[configdotsys]

16 hours ago, John M said:

Princesses don't get knocked up by shiftless losers.

All I could think of when I read this was the Progressive commercial in which Flo says to Jamie, "Sprinkles are for winners."

[Quof]

5 hours ago, magemaud said:

I found an interesting basic guide Korean Weddings and among other things it says this:

"Above all, weddings in Korea are short and sweet. Whereas in many parts of the world, the wedding is all about the bride and groom, in Korea, the guests’ preferences always come first – and very few guests want to spend an entire day at someone’s wedding

Well, what in the hell was the wedding ceremony that they had a year ago? 

[politichick]

2 hours ago, Angel pie said:

Isn't Ari's dad a doctor? Maybe she's wanting him and her mom to do the circumcision.

He's an OB/GYN, but that's an interesting thought. And surely he will tell her the baby must be circumcised. 

[1011101010001]

It takes like a second but the drama queen is acting like it’s major surgery and the child will be mutilated and never enjoy sex.  In fact, if he remains uncut he may get teased in the high school locker room for his “turtle dick.”  So there is always a down side if you are looking for one.

[readheaded]

17 minutes ago, politichick said:

He's an OB/GYN, but that's an interesting thought. And surely he will tell her the baby must be circumcised. 

Her father's a cardiologist and even if he were an Ob/Gyn, he likely wouldn't tell her that the baby must be circumcised.  

[readheaded]

15 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

It takes like a second but the drama queen is acting like it’s major surgery and the child will be mutilated and never enjoy sex.  In fact, if he remains uncut he may get teased in the high school locker room for his “turtle dick.”  So there is always a down side if you are looking for one.

Only a little more than half of the baby boys born in the US are circumcised because many people are declining this elective surgery for their infants.  Likewise, many insurance companies are no longer covering the procedure (unless specifically medically necessary).

[ThinkerBell]

20 hours ago, Polliwollidoodle said:

I kept dozing off (for real) so I did miss a lot. However, I was wakey wakey when they were going to have the circumcision and she didn't feel comfortable because newbie Baby had finally settled down. I will get all preachy now- I know not everyone is ok with circumcision but if you are doing it as a ritual religious ceremony--- it gets done. 

Also, I understand that there is quite likely not a mohel t where she is in Ethiopia hello  to perform it, but it;s not JUST the actual circumcision- there are important prayers and actions that make it a bris.  I don't know if it has been explained, but bris or brit means covenant as in covenant with Abraham and G-d that on the eighth day of lie  this is done. So maybe she needs a bigger star of David because she otherwise seems to not know much about it.

 

I agree with everything you said, but then again, maybe precious Ari thought circumcision is 'silly' just like she dismissed the sacred Christian rite of baptism as 'silly'.

 

 

 

[1011101010001]

27 minutes ago, readheaded said:

Likewise, many insurance companies are no longer covering the procedure (unless specifically medically necessary).

Seems odd when you have a much higher risk of STDs including HIV when uncut.  But then insurance companies kick people out of the hospital right after surgery too so it’s all about penny pinching. 

[magemaud]

6 hours ago, Angel pie said:

Isn't Ari's dad a doctor? Maybe she's wanting him and her mom to do the circumcision.

Daddy is a cardiologist, so I doubt if he has experience with circumcism. 

Edited to add, the OB/GYN Ari went to in Princeton was an “old family friend.” 

Edited October 27, 2020 by magemaud

[Meowwww]

Can someone un-confuse me?
Didn’t Deavan already have a Korean wedding?   Didn’t they get dressed up in Korean traditional attire for it and have pictures too?   I have a vague memory of her riding on Jihoon’s back in traditional attire.  What was that?  
ETA Ari and her “mom will bring me everything I need” is really getting on my last nerve.  As an adult, if you’re grown up enough to move to Ethiopia and have a baby, you’re grown up enough to plan and prepare and pay for everything yourself.  Ugh. 
How is mom gonna fly in with cribs and car seats and everything a baby needs?   Can one just fly into Ethiopia with an unlimited amount of cargo?  Aren’t there customs laws and freight charges and import taxes and limits on what one can bring?  

Edited October 26, 2020 by Meowwww
Ari stuff.

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 10/26/2020 at 6:31 PM, Meowwww said:

Can someone un-confuse me?
Didn’t Deavan already have a Korean wedding?   Didn’t they get dressed up in Korean traditional attire for it and have pictures too?   I have a vague memory of her riding on Jihoon’s back in traditional attire.  What was that?  
ETA Ari and her “mom will bring me everything I need” is really getting on my last nerve.  As an adult, if you’re grown up enough to move to Ethiopia and have a baby, you’re grown up enough to plan and prepare and pay for everything yourself.  Ugh. 
How is mom gonna fly in with cribs and car seats and everything a baby needs?   Can one just fly into Ethiopia with an unlimited amount of cargo?  Aren’t there customs laws and freight charges and import taxes and limits on what one can bring?  

Yes, yes they did.  To be blunt, my "dream wedding" as their service in city hall.  "Just sign here, yep.....you are good."  Never wanted the big shabang.

Did my mom and first MIL want to buy us stuff?  Of course!  Was it expected?  No, as we were 32 and 35 and had....oh I dunno.....jobs?

Gotta say: I was shocked Ari agreed to a baptism.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Mrs. Hanson

[readheaded]

1 hour ago, MrBuhBye said:

Seems odd when you have a much higher risk of STDs including HIV when uncut.  But then insurance companies kick people out of the hospital right after surgery too so it’s all about penny pinching. 

It could be said that having any body part (appendix, tonsils, etc.) puts a person a higher risk for that body part getting diseased than if the part was removed. As for STDs, those are easily preventable without performing surgery on infants.

2 hours ago, ThinkerBell said:

I agree with everything you said, but then again, maybe precious Ari thought circumcision is 'silly' just like she dismissed the sacred Christian rite of baptism as 'silly'.

 

 

 

Ari said that she wanted a surgeon to do the circumcision, not a mohel.  In the US, the mom's OB usually does them on newborns.  I don't know who does them in Ethiopia, though.

[1011101010001]

12 minutes ago, readheaded said:

It could be said that having any body part (appendix, tonsils, etc.) puts a person a higher risk for that body part getting diseased than if the part was removed. As for STDs, those are easily preventable without performing surgery on infants.

We are getting far off topic but the science does not back up skipping circumcision:

CBS News:

Clinical research has found circumcision can safeguard an infant from a number of health complications, most notably urinary tract infections. Kidney damage develops in about half of infants who contract a UTI. The adult lifetime risk for a UTI is approximately 1 in 3 for uncircumcised men.

Additionally, circumcision has been found to lowers one's risk for contracting HIV and HPV, the human papilloma virus, which can cause genital warts and has been linked to some cancers. 

Another study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reviewed more than 500 studies, finding that circumcision reduces risk for HIV transmission in heterosexual men by 60 percent, genital herpes by 30 percent, and cancer-causing strains of HPV by 35 percent. 

Some research suggests that circumcision in infancy actually lowers the risk for prostate cancer in adulthood. A study of 3,400 men found those who were circumcised before their first sexual intercourse were 15 percent less likely to develop prostate cancer than men who were not.

So worries that a baby later may be mad at his parents for seeking to protect his health seem ill founded.

[magemaud]

5 hours ago, Quof said:

Well, what in the hell was the wedding ceremony that they had a year ago?

They had a Korean “paebaek” ceremony at Jihoon’s parents’ house and a civil ceremony at the Marriage Bureau. So yeah, they’re already married, just like Libby and Andrei and Pedro and Chantel. 

[Texasmom1970]

I don’t know why Yazan had to send Brit an airplane ticket. With her over inflated ego her bratty ass can just hop on her broom and go.

[magemaud]

2 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

 

I don’t know why Yazan had to send Brit an airplane ticket

 

 I think it was a test to prove he could provide for her. She claims that she’s paid for everything up till now. 

[nutella fitzgerald]

16 hours ago, lilysmom said:

Suppose for a minute that you were in Kenny's situation, moving to Mexico and not bothering to learn any Spanish. Imagine that you knew you were going to have a young step child who didn't speak English. Even if it did NOT occur to you to learn some of the language, would it NOT occur to you to make learning each other's language a game, a bonding experience, once you got there? (You teach me the word for this object in Spanish, I'll teach you the word in English. After some words, then some phrases.) This would be a "win-win" for not only bonding, but then eventually you both would become fluent in each other's language. 

Even Luis did this with Molly’s daughter Kensley! It really puts Kenny’s failure in perspective. 

[Armchair Critic]

On 10/25/2020 at 11:52 AM, Tuneful said:

I've sort of had enough of Kvetchy and Arhondo. The telenovela drama is OTT for me at this point. Kid is adorable, even though it appears she unfortunately has inherited Arhondo's jaw and underbite. I'm counting down 'til the honeymoon is over for Kvetchy having a 4-year-old kid live there FT, and they don't speak each other's languages.  

Re Brittany: how spoiled, and how bad is someone's narcissism, when two random people walking on a perfect day in a lovely FL park say "absolutely beautiful" and you think it's about you? smdh. 

  

😂 Still laughing at Kvetchy. Funny stuff!

[readheaded]

9 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

We are getting far off topic but the science does not back up skipping circumcision:

CBS News:

Clinical research has found circumcision can safeguard an infant from a number of health complications, most notably urinary tract infections. Kidney damage develops in about half of infants who contract a UTI. The adult lifetime risk for a UTI is approximately 1 in 3 for uncircumcised men.

Additionally, circumcision has been found to lowers one's risk for contracting HIV and HPV, the human papilloma virus, which can cause genital warts and has been linked to some cancers. 

Another study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reviewed more than 500 studies, finding that circumcision reduces risk for HIV transmission in heterosexual men by 60 percent, genital herpes by 30 percent, and cancer-causing strains of HPV by 35 percent. 

Some research suggests that circumcision in infancy actually lowers the risk for prostate cancer in adulthood. A study of 3,400 men found those who were circumcised before their first sexual intercourse were 15 percent less likely to develop prostate cancer than men who were not.

So worries that a baby later may be mad at his parents for seeking to protect his health seem ill founded.

We can go back and forth with studies about this because there are many that don't support routine circumcision, but many people (2/3 of the world's men aren't circumcised) don't feel the need to cut off an infant's body part.  

3 hours ago, magemaud said:

 I think it was a test to prove he could provide for her. She claims that she’s paid for everything up till now. 

Yes, she had conditions for him to meet to show that he was his "own man."     

[ExMathMajor]

Boy, we've got a bunch of winners with this American cast, don't we? Three snotty and entitled white women (Ari, Jenny, Deavan), one dangerously selfish and stupid black woman (Brittany), and two dumb-ass white men (Kenny, Cheesedick).

Unfortunately, of the non-American cast, the only two I can say that I like (relatively unequivocally) are Armando and Hannah.

[WahooLAH99]

17 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

I am not saying it is not needed at all, but it was just a few blocks. In a country where they don't use car seats anyway. 

Well in America most people buy their car seats in advance and it is already in their car when they go to the hospital! So if Ari wants everything in Africa to be like America maybe she should have bought a car seat months ago! And a car! Besides the fact that it did look like once she had one for her return visit to the hospital it had no base and was just sitting on the seat! They were not even holding the handle .  I am pretty sure that is the same thing as just holding your baby in the car! You get I an accident and that car seat would just fly right out of the car!

[mmecorday]

Let's just be honest here -- if Ari wanted everything to be like it is in America, then she should have had her baby in America. Nothing suits her expectations in Ethiopia. Not even Biniyan. She reminds me of those people in "House Hunters International" who are always so perplexed when they can't find a five bedroom, six bathroom Dutch Colonial with a gourmet kitchen in Madagascar.

[Neurochick]

19 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

Let's just be honest here -- if Ari wanted everything to be like it is in America, then she should have had her baby in America. Nothing suits her expectations in Ethiopia. Not even Biniyan. She reminds me of those people in "House Hunters International" who are always so perplexed when they can't find a five bedroom, six bathroom Dutch Colonial with a gourmet kitchen in Madagascar.

😄  Amen to the bolded part.  

[1011101010001]

4 hours ago, readheaded said:

but many people (2/3 of the world's men aren't circumcised) don't feel the need to cut off an infant's body part. 

i didn’t know it was a popularity contest when we are discussing public health.  We all know how that is going now, when feelings are more important to some than science.  

[magemaud]

When Avi reaches the “age of reason”, if he chooses Judaism, would Hebrew law require him to be circumcised before he could join the religion? 

[lilysmom]

15 hours ago, Meowwww said:

Can someone un-confuse me?
Didn’t Deavan already have a Korean wedding?   Didn’t they get dressed up in Korean traditional attire for it and have pictures too?   I have a vague memory of her riding on Jihoon’s back in traditional attire.  What was that?  
ETA Ari and her “mom will bring me everything I need” is really getting on my last nerve.  As an adult, if you’re grown up enough to move to Ethiopia and have a baby, you’re grown up enough to plan and prepare and pay for everything yourself.  Ugh. 
How is mom gonna fly in with cribs and car seats and everything a baby needs?   Can one just fly into Ethiopia with an unlimited amount of cargo?  Aren’t there customs laws and freight charges and import taxes and limits on what one can bring?  

So true! I hope Mom also packs a car in her luggage, so they have something to put under the car seat!

[lh25]

21 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Does his culture dictate that he have unprotected sex with American tourists?

Bingo!  Exactly what I was going to post.  I'm going to bet that his religion frowns on pre-marital sex.  I'm no fan of Ari, but she has a bit of a right be be surprised that he's insisting on following his culture/religious rules after what he's already done.  Twice now.

[Pondlass1]

I'm getting a bit fed up with "but it's MY culture!!" demands too.  I think I'd research long and hard before I planned any serious relationship with someone from overseas.  At least this show has taught me that.

[Kath94]

6 hours ago, readheaded said:

Yes, she had conditions for him to meet to show that he was his "own man."     

Did I miss something or is Yazan not telling Brittany how bad things are for him?  He whined that he had to "change everything" and she changed nothing & didn't sacrifice for the two of them, but I don't recall his telling her that he lost his fish market job and was kicked out of his home over her.  Either he didn't tell her or she doesn't see how serious it is for him.  Maybe he's being macho & sucking it up, or maybe she's just being her clueless self.  Absolutely NO understanding or respect for another culture.

[readheaded]

3 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

i didn’t know it was a popularity contest when we are discussing public health.  We all know how that is going now, when feelings are more important to some than science.  

Wow, your assumptions are really out of line and disrespectful.  

You can try to snark at me and claim it's a public health issue, but the fact remains that countries with healthier populations than ours don't circumcise their infants (Japan, for example). Those aren't "my feelings."  

I'm done with this exchange.

[1011101010001]

6 minutes ago, readheaded said:

Wow, your assumptions are really out of line and disrespectful.  

You can try to snark at me and claim it's a public health issue, but the fact remains that countries with healthier populations than ours don't circumcise their infants (Japan, for example). Those aren't "my feelings."  

I'm done with this exchange.

I wasn’t referring to your feelings, I was referring to the feelings of people whom you referenced.  I don’t even know what your personal feelings are.  And I was being totally respectful and not snarky by citing empirical evidence from a respected source rather than anecdotes.  But yes I am done discussing this with you as well.

[StatisticalOutlier]

22 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

But now its understood that a baby is safer in a car seat. ... I can't stand Ari but she wants her baby to be safe, can't fault her for that. 

It's all relative.  I'm sure it's safer for a baby not to be in a car at all, ever.  So once you decide to put him in a car, you decide whether to accept the additional risk of not being in a car seat.  In this case, it looked like they were just creeping along for a few blocks. 

I wouldn't have a problem with her deciding the baby couldn't ride in the car, except that meant it was awkwardly carried by someone using his other hand for a parasol. 

 

5 hours ago, WahooLAH99 said:

Besides the fact that it did look like once she had one for her return visit to the hospital it had no base and was just sitting on the seat! They were not even holding the handle .  I am pretty sure that is the same thing as just holding your baby in the car! You get I an accident and that car seat would just fly right out of the car!

Also known as "thrown clear."  Could save a life.

[Back Atcha]

22 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

I was born in the US in the 70's and they didn't use car seats then. My mom held me in her arms in the front seat when they brought me home and I was fine. They only went a few blocks. I am sure the baby would have been fine.

My kids were born in '66 and '66.  We had car seats per se.  Mine was a little cloth thing with hooks that fit over the back of the seat--the FRONT seat, of course.  I drove a little "business coupe" to work.  We bought it at a City auction because my father-in-law worked there.  It had a front seat, but no back seat...room for supplies, packages, etc. I guess.  Like this, but we didn't have the steering wheel .   (couldn't make this smaller for some reason.

   

[Back Atcha]

1 hour ago, Kath94 said:

Either he didn't tell her or she doesn't see how serious it is for him. 

OR...editing makes it more dramatic.  Perhaps when she never hears from him again...can never reach him...and THEN she watches their episodes, she'll understand that he's gone (permanently).

[readheaded]

3 minutes ago, Back Atcha said:

OR...editing makes it more dramatic.  Perhaps when she never hears from him again...can never reach him...and THEN she watches their episodes, she'll understand that he's gone (permanently).

Sadly, I don't think she'll care.  

[Back Atcha]

22 hours ago, Neurochick said:

And Ari doesn't seem to understand that she didn't have her baby by the Immaculate Conception, the baby is Bini's too.   

This seems to be an immaculate MISconception.   That Catholic belief has nothing to do with how a baby is created.

"The doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854."

Edited October 27, 2020 by Back Atcha
unrelated

[CountryGirl]

Far be it for me to defend the trainwreck that is Ari, but sheep slaughtering or not, I would not be happy if I arrived home, having given birth, especially a C-section, to find a gaggle of folks waiting for me. 

[nutella fitzgerald]

2 hours ago, Kath94 said:

Did I miss something or is Yazan not telling Brittany how bad things are for him?  He whined that he had to "change everything" and she changed nothing & didn't sacrifice for the two of them, but I don't recall his telling her that he lost his fish market job and was kicked out of his home over her.  Either he didn't tell her or she doesn't see how serious it is for him.  Maybe he's being macho & sucking it up, or maybe she's just being her clueless self.  Absolutely NO understanding or respect for another culture.

I’m not sure Yazan’s English is good enough to clearly explain everything to Brittany. We never see him speaking English in the confessionals, in contrast to the other foreign partners - Armando, Melyza, and Sumit all speak English fluently. Biniyam and Jihoon are obviously more comfortable in their native languages but their English is good enough to answer questions about topics beyond basic conversational “how are you?”/“fine, thank you.” Yazan and Brittany seem to have the biggest language barrier of all the couples.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, lh25 said:

Bingo!  Exactly what I was going to post.  I'm going to bet that his religion frowns on pre-marital sex.  I'm no fan of Ari, but she has a bit of a right be be surprised that he's insisting on following his culture/religious rules after what he's already done.  Twice now.

My problem with Ari is that she's in HIS country, his country, his culture.  If she wanted things her way 100%, she should have just gone to a sperm bank or had the baby in the US.  

Quote

 

This seems to be an immaculate MISconception.   That Catholic belief has nothing to do with how a baby is created.

"The doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854."

 

Yes, I do know that, and thanks for the history lesson. 

My point was that Ari doesn't seem to understand that the baby isn't just HERS.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Neurochick

[brewgirl]

On 10/26/2020 at 6:31 PM, readheaded said:

Only a little more than half of the baby boys born in the US are circumcised because many people are declining this elective surgery for their infants.  Likewise, many insurance companies are no longer covering the procedure (unless specifically medically necessary).

Interesting. What are your sources for this? 

[brewgirl]

9 hours ago, lh25 said:

I'm no fan of Ari, but she has a bit of a right be be surprised that he's insisting on following his culture/religious rules after what he's already done.  Twice now.

Well...I guess she could have, 'ya know, got to know him and his life history? She went into this whole "I'm gonna have a baby with a stranger and give birth in a strange land" affair with (seemingly) not much thought about his past or their future. And I honestly don't understand why she would have a right to be surprised about him following his culture any more than he has a right to be surprised that she wants to follow her culture. The fact is that they are two imbeciles who had no business procreating and then trying to create a family life without actually knowing the other person and what their core beliefs are.

Also..."what he's already done"? That's incredibly one-sided since we viewers have zero knowledge of what occured with his first wife/baby-mama (not sure if they married). 

[candall]

On 10/25/2020 at 9:13 PM, jennyf said:

What is going on with Ari’s eyebrows in the interview scenes after she had the baby? 

The makeup artist for the Talking Head segments likes a very strong eyebrow.  It's not just Ari!

[magemaud]

35 minutes ago, candall said:

The makeup artist for the Talking Head segments likes a very strong eyebrow.  It's not just Ari!

If that's a professional makeup job, the "artist" might consider a different career. Ari's eyebrows don't even match in her THs, so I figured she did her own makeup. 

[Back Atcha]

5 hours ago, brewgirl said:

On 10/26/2020 at 3:31 PM, readheaded said:

Only a little more than half of the baby boys born in the US are circumcised because many people are declining this elective surgery for their infants.  Likewise, many insurance companies are no longer covering the procedure (unless specifically medically necessary).

Interesting. What are your sources for this? 

From the CDC 2013:  Across the 32-year period from 1979 through 2010, the national rate of newborn circumcision declined 10% overall, from 64.5% to 58.3% (Table and Figure 1). During this time, the overall percentage of newborns circumcised during their birth hospitalization was highest in 1981 at 64.9%, and lowest in 2007 at 55.4%.

From W.H.O. 2015:  There's no question that among the world's wealthy nations, the U.S. stands out when it comes to circumcision. The WHO estimates that the overall male circumcision rate in the states is somewhere between 76 and 92 percent. Most Western European countries, by contrast, have rates less than 20 percent

[Wanda]

Just watched.

so sumit finally got a job