Claire.....wait, There’s a Justin?

[Absolom]

Almost every Duggar flip looks like every other Duggar flip.  

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Almost every Duggar flip looks like every other Duggar flip.  

Which look like low budget versions of every home reno show.

[madpsych78]

Fort Worth is in Tarrant County, Texas.

If looking there, may want to see if it's under Spivey.

[Portia]

When I was a high school senior I got an intense crush on a sophomore. He didn't reciprocate. When I was a college freshman I flat-out fell in love with a high school senior. We've been married 32 years. I have nothing against dating younger guys nor marrying young, honestly, but my definition of "young" is "right after college."

[PikaScrewChu]

Yeah it depends on the people involved. My ex was younger than me and it didn't work, he was too immature. I had a friend who dated younger men exclusively "because they are easier to train" apparently. That wasn't my experience but hey.

I said it in the other thread but the only Duggar that was potentially mature enough to get married was JD. The rest were not mature enough. Justin is the first of the Howler buddies to be fed to the wolves. Ones raised by sister-moms. I don't know if that makes it better or worse. 

[DangerousMinds]

Ugh, her mom sounds like a real brain trust. They are doomed.

[ouinason]

I guess it's good to know that their parents have their backs.  I mean, a lot of kids in this position would have the added stress of their parents giving them a hard time.  Now, they better not be pushing them to hurry things up.

[Chicklet]

So Mom Spivey is just as delusional as the Duggars. Good to know where everyone stands on this.

Likely she has doesn't know the difference between a programmed teenager and a responsible one.

[MargeGunderson]

What responsibilities have the boys had beyond those that most kids have? The girls do all the child minding, household work, cooking, teaching, etc. 

[crazy8s]

so responsible Jana or Johanna is probably packing Justin's bag for every visit to texas. the Duggar boys have been shown on the show for years having their suitcases/bag packed by a sister. They are also probably washing the dirty underwear and clothes he brings back.

Wonder which girl has the laundry jurisdiction now. Jenny or Jordyn probably

[BitterApple]

Responsibilities? Daddy bankrolls their entire existence. They have no responsibilities.

[PikaScrewChu]

Oh dear. This one believes the Duggar money grows on trees. 

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

Ugh, her mom sounds like a real brain trust. They are doomed.

I’m sorry.  I know it’s a Southern tradition to refer to your father as Daddy.  It’s a entirely different thing for a person to refer to their  daughters’  significant others’  father as the guys daddy.  If Mama Spivey has known the family for years, then she  would be referring to the man as Jim Bob.  
 

Justin is obviously just a child in her mind.  She definitely makes him sound like one with this tweet.  If he is old enough to court her daughter, then  he’s an adult male,  and in their patriarchal world, she should be referring to him in a more respectful manner. 
 

On the other hand, the Duggar’s treated Derick as a child too.  I still remember that horrid Happy Happy song  where Derick jumped in with the offspring and serenaded Ma and   Pa Duggar. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by mythoughtis

[crazy8s]

surely the engagement and marriage is a done deal if Hillary feels free to respond to people on Justin's instagram.

also I could find no record for Justin owning property in texas, but damn their are a ton of Spiveys in that county. thanks to @madpsych78 for narrowing it to the county. Jason's Build Master Construction on FB has a recent pic of siding a house. it appears the same style with the porch overhang, as the one James bought in the spring. My guess is it was James' or J and J services flip. I can find no actual business record for J and J services

Edited September 29, 2020 by crazy8s

[GeeGolly]

Mama Spivey better cool her little SM jets. Defending the Duggars online could be a full time job.

[crazy8s]

when mama and daddy spivey are on the hook for supporting the newlyweds and a baby next year she will see there is no magic Duggar money train.

Edited September 29, 2020 by crazy8s

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, ouinason said:

I guess it's good to know that their parents have their backs.  I mean, a lot of kids in this position would have the added stress of their parents giving them a hard time.  Now, they better not be pushing them to hurry things up.

I don’t think you’re seeing what I am. Better to have smart parents who recognize how ill prepared, undereducated, brainwashed, and immature the Duggar kids are, and keep their own teenager away from them. But that’s just me.

2 hours ago, ouinason said:

I guess it's good to know that their parents have their backs.  I mean, a lot of kids in this position would have the added stress of their parents giving them a hard time.  Now, they better not be pushing them to hurry things up.

IMO it’s not “giving them a hard time” to parent well.

Edited September 29, 2020 by DangerousMinds

[DangerousMinds]

37 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Mama Spivey better cool her little SM jets. Defending the Duggars online could be a full time job.

And how does she think JB has not arranged any of the kids’ marriages? Is she a liar or just that stupid?

[Chicklet]

Ohh I know this one. I vote stupid.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, DangerousMinds said:

And how does she think JB has not arranged any of the kids’ marriages? Is she a liar or just that stupid?

Well, actually ... I agree with her on this. I think the only one JB has had a hand in is Jill and Derick, and I wouldn't call that arranged, per say. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[ouinason]

I understand what you mean, but realistically, if Claire wanted to marry Justin, her parents can't stop her, even if they weren't Duggar leg humpers (which is a term that I find disgusting, but is the accepted term here), which the most obviously are.

[DangerousMinds]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Well, actually ... I agree with her on this. I think the only one JB has had a hand in is Jill and Derick, and I wouldn't call that arranged, per say. 🤷🏽‍♀️

What about Joy and Austin? Joe and Kendra?

[Chicklet]

Oh her parents could stop her. What good little Gothard child goes against their parents wishes?? And no wedding little girl, that might stop her cold.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Chicklet

[DangerousMinds]

1 minute ago, ouinason said:

I understand what you mean, but realistically, if Claire wanted to marry Justin, her parents can't stop her, even if they weren't Duggar leg humpers (which is a term that I find disgusting, but is the accepted term here), which the most obviously are.

They are parents of a teenager who (I assume) still lives in their home. During a global pandemic. If they didn’t allow her to travel or allow Justin in their home, how would Claire ever see him? They have the power.

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

What about Joy and Austin? Joe and Kendra?

I think the families knew each other and the kids developed crushes.

[crazy8s]

28 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Ohh I know this one. I vote stupid.

were you jumping up with your hand waving yelling pick me, pick me! I know the answer!   - that's the happy thought I am picturing

[Chicklet]

Just now, crazy8s said:

were you jumping up with your hand waving yelling pick me, pick me! I know the answer!   - that's the happy thought I am picturing

(looking around) So you can see me?

[ginger90]

I have a feeling Jim Bob will be having a little talk with Claire’s mother. 

[mythoughtis]

2 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Oh her parents could stop her. What good little Gothard child goes against their parents wishes?? And no wedding little girl, that might stop her cold.

Other than Jessa, who threatened to elope, none of them.  

[DangerousMinds]

8 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Other than Jessa, who threatened to elope, none of them.  

And that was all bluster. No way would she have ever actually eloped.

[mythoughtis]

12 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Other than Jessa, who threatened to elope, none of them.  

 

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

And that was all bluster. No way would she have ever actually eloped.

Of course not.  In order to elope  you have to somehow manage to be alone with your intended spouse long  enough to get to the JP. No way was she going to talk any of her chaperones into letting that happen, or standing up as her witness.  They’d have been on the phone reporting to ‘Daddy’ in a heartbeat. 

[Albanyguy]

10 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

19 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Other than Jessa, who threatened to elope, none of them.  

And that was all bluster. No way would she have ever actually eloped.

And she knew she wouldn't have to. She was Michelle's favorite daughter and Michelle had a big crush on Ben.

 

[SMama]

5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I have a feeling Jim Bob will be having a little talk with Claire’s mother. 

Why?

[emmawoodhouse]

Because it's the Jim Bob Duggar show, not the Hilary Spivey attention grab.

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Because it's the Jim Bob Duggar show, not the Hilary Spivey attention grab.

She'll soon suffer the fate of the other Big Hopeful Child Marriage Pusher, Mike Seewald. The Duggars sat in front of him at his son's graduation,

He thought he was joining the famous clan, but in short order it was as if Bin's family didn't even exist.

[Churchhoney]

JB and M may not have literally and in detail arranged many marriages other than Josh/Anna (and to a lesser degree Jill-Der).

But what they DO do is utterly deprive their kids of any chance of even meeting candidates that their parents would consider (sight unseen) outside the pale. (or even SEEING many, for that matter)

And they also steer certain specific possibilities for mates into the kids' orbit again and again and again.

And if the kids were to go outside this very thin funnel of candidates, I'm pretty sure they fear losing their parents' support, which they need since they have no education, training or experience in doing anything to support and sustain themselves outside the TTH.

And if you're constantly steering ANY young man/woman into the orbit of ANY offspring --young woman/man -- who has no other actual visualizable future available (of any kind, whether it's sexual, career-oriented, adventurous, educational, or whatever) except marriage, then the urges for sex, romance, a life of their own, any new adventure or just SOME DAMN THING to get them out of the TTH middle-school dorm and into a more personal space are likely to drive your offspring right into the arms of that person, seems to me. In short order. So -- Hey, I didn't ARRANGE this! But -- Score!

Their level of isolation, infantilization and mind-control of their kids (plus, scheduling things like, oh, weddings to sustain the TeeVee show calendar) amounts to arranged-marriages-lite, seems to me.

If this happened in any of our families, it would feel pretty constraining and kinda "arranged" to most of us, compared to the average processes, I expect.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Churchhoney

[mythoughtis]

17 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

But what they DO do is utterly deprive their kids of any chance of even meeting candidates that their parents would consider (sight unseen) outside the pale. (or even SEEING many, for that matter)

And they also steer certain specific possibilities for mates into the kids' orbit again and again and again.

In addition, males have to first get permission from the females’ father to ‘get to know’ their daughter and then again to court their daughter.  The get to  know phase is a fairly recent addition to their belief system because of the number of failed courtships.  In case anyone has forgotten, J.B. had actual written applications that the males had to complete prior to getting permission.  

Even JD had to be formally introduced to Abbie by their parents  before he could  talk to her, after he had seen her across rooms on previous occasions. Although they may have agreed to court without express permission. 
 

Zac Bates is the first male in this system  I have heard of to meet a girl at a restaurant, strike up conversations without chaperones and decide that he wanted to go out with her.  Of course that was after a failed courtship.  

 

[CouchTater]

On 9/27/2020 at 11:15 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Our new home to discuss Justin Duggar & Claire Spivey. 
 

 

Yay!  This my favorite.  Kudos to whoever suggested it>

For my own internet sanity, would it be possible to "lower-case" the T:  "Claire.....wait, There’s a Justin?"

Edited October 1, 2020 by CouchTater

[Oldernowiser]

On 9/29/2020 at 2:49 PM, GeeGolly said:

I think the families knew each other and the kids developed crushes.

When I was sixteen I had a crush on my first cousin. Hell, I didn’t know. I was a kid. He was handsome.

Point is, kids shouldn’t “court.”

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Oldernowiser said:

When I was sixteen I had a crush on my first cousin. Hell, I didn’t know. I was a kid. He was handsome.

Point is, kids shouldn’t “court.”

Oh I agree. This was in response to whether all the Duggar kids' marriages were arranged. I'm an outlier, I don't believe any of them were.

[Zella]

I don't think they're arranged in the conventional sense we think of arranged marriages as "Boy 1, you are marrying Girl 2." I do think the families severely limit the pool of acceptable applicants and strongly encourage any signs of interest. And I think this is a problem with severely sheltered and hormonal teenagers because of course they're going to think they're in LURVE when they have such limited exposure to other people and are constantly being brainwashed about how special and awesome and did we mention special marriage is. Essentially, anyone who makes eyes at you is going to seem like Prince Charming in those conditions. So, I think a lot of folks are being set up for failure and are being lead to believe what would usually be a crush is the real deal. That being said, I don't think any of the Duggar kids are being forced to marry against their will or were assigned someone to marry. 

[Saylii]

Spivey’s likely live in Parker County btw.  I couldn’t find anything belonging to a Duggar there, but didn’t search past last name.

[emmawoodhouse]

2 hours ago, Saylii said:

Spivey’s likely live in Parker County btw.  I couldn’t find anything belonging to a Duggar there, but didn’t search past last name.

No, they're in Tarrant County. I forget the town, but it was definitely confirmed as a suburb of Fort Worth. 

As for arranged marriages, I definitely think there were set ups like Jill/Derelict, Josiah/Lauren, Joe/Kendra, and Joy/Austin. I think Smuganna was about as arranged as we've seen so far, since I contend that Boob wanted Smuggar locked down and out of his hair. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by emmawoodhouse
Spacing issues

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't think they're arranged in the conventional sense we think of arranged marriages as "Boy 1, you are marrying Girl 2." I do think the families severely limit the pool of acceptable applicants and strongly encourage any signs of interest. And I think this is a problem with severely sheltered and hormonal teenagers because of course they're going to think they're in LURVE when they have such limited exposure to other people and are constantly being brainwashed about how special and awesome and did we mention special marriage is. Essentially, anyone who makes eyes at you is going to seem like Prince Charming in those conditions. So, I think a lot of folks are being set up for failure and are being lead to believe what would usually be a crush is the real deal. That being said, I don't think any of the Duggar kids are being forced to marry against their will or were assigned someone to marry. 

To me an arranged marriage and limiting the pool of prospective mates are two different things.

I agree the pool the kids are exposed to is limited to other Fundies, yet Derick, Ben and Jeremy weren't folks the Duggar parents even knew, with the exception of Derick who reached out to JB as a prayer partner. And some have even argued Derick and Jeremy aren't Fundy.

I also agree the whole giving away pieces of your heart bullshit encourages a love at first sight mentality, but again, to me that's not an arranged marriage.

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't think they're arranged in the conventional sense we think of arranged marriages as "Boy 1, you are marrying Girl 2." I do think the families severely limit the pool of acceptable applicants and strongly encourage any signs of interest. And I think this is a problem with severely sheltered and hormonal teenagers because of course they're going to think they're in LURVE when they have such limited exposure to other people and are constantly being brainwashed about how special and awesome and did we mention special marriage is. Essentially, anyone who makes eyes at you is going to seem like Prince Charming in those conditions. So, I think a lot of folks are being set up for failure and are being lead to believe what would usually be a crush is the real deal. That being said, I don't think any of the Duggar kids are being forced to marry against their will or were assigned someone to marry. 

I agree with this, but I think it's a step further. JB meets someone he thinks is a good prospective match. He introduces this person to his children to see any of them are interested (within hetero restrictions). He talks up the person he wants them to meet. Says he's impressed with their Godly qualities and other talents if they have any. The kids have a right to say "No I'm not interested", so they're not bound to marry this person. If they are interested, a getting to know/courtship starts up. And these kids are really young and susceptible for marriage, so they listen to their parents. When there are a bunch of children the same age and gender, he may try to see who is the best fit/most interested. 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, Temperance said:

I agree with this, but I think it's a step further. JB meets someone he thinks is a good prospective match. He introduces this person to his children to see any of them are interested (within hetero restrictions). He talks up the person he wants them to meet. Says he's impressed with their Godly qualities and other talents if they have any. The kids have a right to say "No I'm not interested", so they're not bound to marry this person. If they are interested, a getting to know/courtship starts up. And these kids are really young and susceptible for marriage, so they listen to their parents. When there are a bunch of children the same age and gender, he may try to see who is the best fit/most interested. 

I have said before in another thread that I think this is what happened.  JB and Mr. Spivey got together and decided their two families should make a match.  So the Spiveys head over to Arkansas to visit and see what unfolds.  Lo and behold, Claire and Justin like each other.  After getting burned by Derick and Jeremy, JB is not going to allow a stranger into the nest again.  He is going to vet the families who socialize with his kids to make sure another one doesn't have the chance to fly away.  But, he also still allows his kids the right of refusal.  I'm sure there have been many a gentleman caller who has visited the homestead to inquire about Jana, and she has sent all of them packing.  The kids have a choice, but a limited one.  In this instance, Claire got to pick her man from a Daddy-approved pool.

[Zella]

3 hours ago, Temperance said:

I agree with this, but I think it's a step further. JB meets someone he thinks is a good prospective match. He introduces this person to his children to see any of them are interested (within hetero restrictions). He talks up the person he wants them to meet. Says he's impressed with their Godly qualities and other talents if they have any. The kids have a right to say "No I'm not interested", so they're not bound to marry this person. If they are interested, a getting to know/courtship starts up. And these kids are really young and susceptible for marriage, so they listen to their parents. When there are a bunch of children the same age and gender, he may try to see who is the best fit/most interested. 

Yeah this is the vibe I've gotten. It's sold hard and the expectation of a courtship is there, so there's pressure. But you get right of refusal. Like a Jane Austen novel but a lot less interesting or entertaining. I think most of the kids go into these relationships genuinely believing they are in love and are quite startled when that wears off. 

[rue721]

Yes, I think matchmaking certainly goes on.

Maybe matchmaking falls somewhere in between an arranged marriage and a love match, but with the limited pool and the familial/religious pressure involved, I think it's more on the arranged side than the love match side. Mileage may vary.

I also don't think very pressured, early matchmaking is odd for religious fanatics in a closed group like this, frankly.

Edited October 1, 2020 by rue721

[ginger90]

Perhaps orchestrated fits better than arranged.

IDK 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

Do the females fill out a questionnaire, as the males do?

[ozziemom]

1 minute ago, ginger90 said:

Perhaps orchestrated fits better than arranged.

IDK 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

Do the females fill out a questionnaire, as the males do?

Or do the Duggars boys fill out a questionnaire for their perspective FIL?