S05.E09: The Tipping Point

[OnceSane]

Quote

The ladies try to make sense of the altercation between Monique and Candiace, but are left in the dark. Gizelle heads to Atlanta for her daughters’ restaurant opening, meanwhile Ashley presents Michael with a post-nuptial agreement. Karen seeks help from a third party to mend her relationship, but Ray’s surprising revelation leaves her in tears.

Airs September 27, 2020.

[Legalbeagle421]

Monique grabbed that girl for a good 15 minutes (exaggerating). Good Lord. 😳

[loveaux]

so maybe im tripping or maybe i didn’t watch the same episode as Monique, but Monique started that and egged that fight on. she threw the first punch and regardless of how much shit candiass talks, i just feel like that fight was...unnecessary.

 

but was that Karen screaming “MONIQUE LET HER GOOOOOOOO” like that LMAO

[Legalbeagle421]

1 minute ago, loveaux said:

so maybe im tripping or maybe i didn’t watch the same episode as Monique, but Monique started that and egged that fight on. she threw the first punch and regardless of how much shit candiass talks, i just feel like that fight was...unnecessary.

 

but was that Karen screaming “MONIQUE LET HER GOOOOOOOO” like that LMAO

I thought it was Robyn, but whoever it is my new favorite Potomac housewife. 

And I agree with you 100%. Monique went too far and said she would kill her. Okay, psycho. I've never been a fan. 

[dosodog]

Shut up Ashley. You were in the bathroom, you have no idea what happened. Stop escalating the situation with Monique.

Monique just stepped in a big old pile of bird poo.  That was beyond.  

And then she ran off to go get her again!

Edited September 28, 2020 by dosodog

[nexxie]

Now, that was a whole shitshow!

[Grumpbump]

Running back after her....Monique was 100 percent wrong.  And I dislike Candiace.

[Sharper2002]

Monique and I are about the same age and I can tell you that I don’t care how annoying anyone is, I’m not going to fight them. Walk away, stay away and get off the show if you just can’t interact peacefully. 
 

3 minutes ago, dosodog said:

Shut up Ashley

This.

[Keywestclubkid]

Ok honestly how much money does Michael actually have for all this postnuptial talk? Like the way she’s acting he should have a couple hundred million or something 

[Pop Tart]

Monique and Candiace handed Ashley a gift. Barely anyone talking about Michael now.

[nb360]

6 minutes ago, Grumpbump said:

Monique was 100 percent wrong.  And I dislike Candiace.

I do not like Candiance and think she is fake as h*ll. But Monique was in the wrong here. She flipped Candiance's hair  - more than once - and then pulled Candiance's hair.  I didn't see a glass being thrown. I'm really sorry to see this. It just plays into all of the stereotypes about Black women. They are both better than this. 

 

 

[Grumpbump]

7 minutes ago, nb360 said:

I do not like Candiance and think she is fake as h*ll. But Monique was in the wrong here. She flipped Candiance's hair  - more than once - and then pulled Candiance's hair.  I didn't see a glass being thrown. I'm really sorry to see this. It just plays into all of the stereotypes about Black women. They are both better than this. 

 

 

How is Monique still on the show?  Honestly, Porsha from RHoA was kicked off the show and had to attend anger management classes for her altercation with Twirl Girl (sorry...temp amnesia).  She had a death grip on Candiace's wig.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Grumpbump

[LibertarianSlut]

Monique is completely crazy.  I don’t care if she’s cheating, her husband’s cheating, I don’t care if Mrs Claus is cheating on Santa...bitch is crazier and more violent than Nene Leakes.  Getting ahold of Candiace’s hair and not letting go forever like she was clutching a fumbled football was so fucked up.  Then going around and coming for Candiace a second time...???  All the distance Monique created between being a hood rat from Atlantic City and the Lady of the Manor of Potomac has disappeared for me.  I don’t know why they didn’t call the police, and why Monique wasn’t arrested.  

And then Moniques brags—brags!—to Chris that the hood is going to come out when Candiace talks shit.  Chris did not seem pleased.  I’m putting a shelf life on that marriage now.  Maybe they won’t get divorced or separated this year or next year, but I doubt they’re going to grow old and grey together, the way that Ashley is not going to grow old and grey with the already old and grey Michael.  Monique is just carrying around way too much anger.  I wonder how she treats people off camera.  

I think Bravo is on Candiace’s side with all the footage they put out there of Candiace apologizing to Monique.  I don’t know how Bravo got on the right side of something, but I’ll take what I can get...

Yes, Karen, Monique and Candiace were “both wrong” as in Monique wasn’t 100% wrong.  Candiace had some complicity in the single digit percentile.  But I think Karen was implying that Monique and Candiace shared the blame for the fight evenly, and that’s dead wrong, unless this is some soap opera and that was Monique’s long lost evil twin carrying through on her threat to drag Candiace...twice.  Damn.  That might be the worst physical shit I’ve seen go down in Bravo history.  I don’t know how Monique comes back from this, or if I even want to see her try.  Whatever is going on with Monique is too dark and sordid that I think she should sort it out off TV.

When Monique called Candiace a “trick” after she assaulted her, it brought me back to the good old days of season two, when Monique had to apologize for simply calling Gizelle a “trick” and how appalled her pastor was when she repeated the story to him.  

Also, nice way to deflect and make no apologies for violence, Monique.  This was a long time coming and Candiace’s mother should have smacked her face a long time ago????  I think someone needs to take a season or two off and go to a mental health spa.  

[Legalbeagle421]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a shit about any of this other stuff they're showing? Ashley and Michael--NO. Karen and Ray--NO. Gizelle and her children--NO. Robyn and Wendy have since disappeared. The convo between Gizelle and her dad was good. Otherwise, this is so boring following such a crazy start. 

[Bronzedog]

Ashley is setting the stage for her escape.  I wonder if it was her or her mother's idea.   Even if they stay together, they need to move.  Those floor to ceiling windows in that high rise aren't exactly conducive to a toddler.

[Stats Queen]

Gizelle so excited the cheater, cheater pumpkin eater gifted his daughters ownership in a restaurant - that’s a hard burden because restaurants have a large failure rate. This seems like a tax dodge to me.

Of course the restaurant is shut down (prior to COVID). The interior of the restaurant looks like a rip off of Stony River (a small chain of excellent steakhouses in metro Atlanta).

And no Gizelle, One restaurant does not make generational wealth.

Gizelle throws shade, but her ex, is a shady, shady, shady person who, while a pastor, does not seem to have a personal grasp on the Ten Commandments.

Monique, your hubby played professional football for years, where players are tough on the field, because it’s a game and most of them don’t carry that into their “non-work” life.  He looked appalled at your behavior - you were not on the field nor in the Boxing ring, you were at a wine tasting.

[StevieRocks]

Haaaaaa! Gizelle's dad for the win! THAT was awesome!

 

[truthaboutluv]

I guess this is going to be an unpopular opinion. Maybe my younger years of watching much trash television (think I Love New York and mess like that) has desensitized me to reality television fights and arguments and drama. Because frankly I'm not all outraged and aghast and disgusted by Monique's behavior. 

Was she wrong - absolutely. Because you never put hands on anyone, period. If they hit, then by all means, beat their ass. But if you hit first, you're dead wrong for that. And I'll admit that the scariest part of the situation was the eerie calm on Monique's face as she held onto Candiace's hair while multiple producers tried to get her to stop. 

But I still feel like this was a situation that went to a place it didn't need to go because both were being combative and antagonistic towards each other because they are both combative personalities. We saw it when Monique held that umbrella on Robin and we saw it when Candiace threw the knife at Ashley at her house.

Everyone is now acting like Monique's behavior was so "OMG", but if Chris had not been present to hold and calm Candiace down, how would that situation with her and Ashley have gone? Because the women all sat around during that incident, watching the mess unfold. Particularly Gizelle. Because creating mess and watching it all blow up is what Gizelle does best. 

YMMV but funny enough, this reminds me of last season when about the Candiace and Ashely drama, Monique detailed how they were all wrong for that. I feel the same in this situation. Candiace was wrong to have her hands in Monique's face when Monique told her to get her hand out of her face and then follow it with, "oh you're going to drag me". And Monique was dead wrong for the hair flicking that then escalated the situation to what it became. 

She does need to control her temper because as a grown woman who is a wife and mother, she should not be allowing herself to get that heated and to that place of anger. Chris has every right to be upset and disappointed with her and her dismissiveness of his feelings of embarrassment is not good. I do think it's probably the best for Monique's well-being and probably her marriage too, for her to step back from the show. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[LibertarianSlut]

What was the name of that restaurant Jamal gifted to his daughters?  Was it “New Mexico’s“ or something?  I can’t recall, because the show was ever-so-subtle in promoting it.  

Oh my God, I love the producer—“how many kids did Jamal give birth to?”!!  And Gizelle won’t respond out of respect for “the kids”?  Because...giving an accurate number with no additional commentary would really hurt Jamal’s “kids.”  It has nothing at all to do with Gizelle’s ego, nothing, I tell ya.  

I don’t care that much about Ashley.  I feel like she has the same storyline every year.  But this is the best her hair has ever looked.  It’s longer than it used to be, and the weight is giving it more curl and less frizz and I dig it.  This is what I notice when she is talking to Kangaroo Jack, because everything they talk about has been recycled four times, give or take.  The only thing I do like is how upfront and matter of fact Ashley is about the fact that divorce is on the table and that she wants to get paid if there’s another indiscretion.  That is perhaps more embarrassing to Michael in the long term than cheating—that someone is putting his shit out there on front street, and no longer has his misshapen back.  

Wow, Karen doesn’t cook as much as she used to.  Ray is blocked on the word “love.”  The radio host is stressing “honesty” because it is conducive to communication, not because it brings more salacious details to the forefront, not at all.  This is some boring shit.  I blame Monique.  If someone can’t keep her hands to herself, as if she is a two year old in the sandbox, all we’re going to get are scenes of them filming alone or with husbands.  

Jamal strikes me the most insincere person I’ve ever seen.  “Generational wealth,” my foot.  Stop having kids for a hot second and you can support the ones you do have through college and they can create generational wealth that way.  Of course, there are fewer tax loopholes in higher education.  Gizelle does not look good standing by her man.  She looks like a woman who is taking Ray’s advice from a few seasons yonder about how she is not going to look this good 10 or 15 years from now, and she’d better secure a man now.  Gizelle’s dad having Jamal’s number on a hot mic would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.  

Robyn had the right idea by hightailing it out of there with the fight, not to be seen again for the rest of the episode.  I have a feeling that whatever Robyn was up to—folding Juan’s drawers or whatever—would have been better than the rest of the post-fight episode.  

[loveaux]

Tonight’s episode goes to Gizelle’s dad!! I could tell he wasn’t feeling it when she first brought it up, and even more so when she brought it up at dinner.

Monique taking zero responsibility for the fight is something that’s really making me side eye her, and her acting as if Candiace was the one that is completely in the wrong is showing how immature she still is. Big Chris being annoyed with her should’ve been something of a sign where she should’ve been like “okay, well, when you put it that way I’m wrong as well”. And her insisting that Candiace threw the wine glass; girl gravity threw that damn glass when you yoked that girl up like a puppy being snatched up by by their mother. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I think that both Monique and Candiace have contributed to the falling out but I'm not really sure how Candiace can be blamed for Monique's behavior. I mean, Candiace was being annoying and provoking but Monique basically kept escalating the altercation, wouldn't let go despite the fact that it was clear that the situation had gotten out of hand, and STILL wanted to continue to confront Candiace regardless of production's efforts to get her to cool down.  Candiace was being annoying but didn't really do anything when it comes to the physical altercation.

I do think it is hilarious that Ashley missed the entire thing because she was in the bathroom and the look on her face after coming out of the bathroom was beyond. 

[RealReality]

42 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Monique and Candiace handed Ashley a gift. Barely anyone talking about Michael now.

Its only a matter of time before he gets drunk and grabs some butts he shouldn't, inappropriately offers someone fellatio or his boyfriend goes to the blogs because Michael won't pay him his allowance.  

[LaurelleJ]

Looking at the footage, Monique did grab her hair, but looks like she did not start swinging until a glass was thrown in her face. If someone has my hair in their grip, if I'm holding a glass then I will throw it. I still can't see how it got to that point of hair grabbing. Candiace definitely reacted to what Monique did. My final opinion, Candiace provoked, Monique took the bait and escalated it. I say this as a fan of both women, although admittedly I didn't enjoy Candace last season. 

Is hair pulling considered assault? If not, I can see why the charges were dropped for both women. Monique pulls hair, not assault. Candiace responds by throwing the glass, assault, Monique responds by delivering blows, major assault. I think Monique just planned on pulling a Porsha v Kenya, but didn't expect Candiace to throw the glass. When that happened, game over. 

I do feel bad for Candiace and understand that she is embarrassed more than anything, because people are ruthless these days, and they will make memes and GIFs of this incident that will linger forever. She will eventually get over it and but it will sting for a while. 

I see on twitter that people are blaming Robyn and assigning her some of the blame, which I don't agree. It's squarely between Monique and Candiace. I go back and forth with side-eyeing Gizelle because I don't think that someone should push people when they are in a verbal argument. I also think the women get selective amnesia, because I seem to remember Robyn saying that if the cameras weren't at the reunion, she would drag Ashley.

Gizelle's dad and her girls are NOT with the BS. I agree with them. The tea that he cheated before they got married and her dad didn't come to the wedding and hearing him saying that he has 6-7 baby mommas (!!!!) My wig shifted. 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by LaurelleJ

[StillHere]

I detest Gizelle. (They aren’t many from the Bravo stable I can say that about – Kim Zolciak and Carolyn Manzo come to mind as similarly loathsome, as well.) And not even in a fun-to-hate kind of way.

She has played the Black respectability card (and you too Wendy, shut up) so hard and so consistently since the inception of this show. She and her waterboy Robyn have a lot of audacity to take a phony high road while gleefully instigating this fight… and Monique and Candiace fell into her trap.

She fancies herself an arbiter of Blackness. Yet she judged and bullied Katie for self-identifying as biracial in S1; she condescendingly referred to self-made Chris as Big Boy; she asked Candiace if she had a nice job. And with a Head Full of Stringy Blonde Hair.

Anyone who attended HBCU or is/were Black at PWI college or university in the South knows a Gizelle or two. She’s an archetype and doesn’t even realize it.

She’s vile.

Edited September 28, 2020 by StillHere

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, loveaux said:

so maybe im tripping or maybe i didn’t watch the same episode as Monique, but Monique started that and egged that fight on. she threw the first punch and regardless of how much shit candiass talks, i just feel like that fight was...unnecessary.

She most definitely did and then tried to come for Candiace again.

57 minutes ago, nb360 said:

She flipped Candiance's hair  - more than once - and then pulled Candiance's hair.  I didn't see a glass being thrown. I'm really sorry to see this. It just plays into all of the stereotypes about Black women.

Both of them had their hands in each other's faces.  Candiace had the knife because she was clinking it on the glass but Wendy took it away and Gizelle said no knives for you.  They're still back and forth (Candiace now has the wine glass in her right hand) and Monique started flipping Candiace's hair.  Gizelle puts her hands on Candiace & Monique to separate them and then Monique snatches Candiace and started windmilling on her.  Everyone screams for Monique to stop but Monique has a death grip on Candiace.  Cameramen/producers try to get Monique off of Candiace, she still has a death grip on Candiace. THEN Candiace starts busting Monique with the wine glass.  Candiace definitely did hit Monique with the wine glass...AFTER Monique had a grip on her.

57 minutes ago, nb360 said:

They are both better than this. 

No, they're not.  Not Monique, at least.  Her husband tried to say this to her and she continously justified what she did.  She wasn't sorry one bit.  And he stood there looking appalled at her.

21 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

Monique, your hubby played professional football for years, where players are tough on the field, because it’s a game and most of them don’t carry that into their “non-work” life.  He looked appalled at your behavior - you were not on the field nor in the Boxing ring, you were at a wine tasting.

Chris was appalled.

20 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Everyone is now acting like Monique's behavior was so "OMG", but if Chris had not been present to hold and calm Candiace down, how would that situation with her and Ashley have gone?

Candiace actually would've been justified in real life because she had asked Ashley to leave her house and Ashley came back.  Ashley technically was trespassing and had no business in Candiace's house after being asked to leave.

20 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Particularly Gizelle. Because creating mess and watching it all blow up is what Gizelle does best.

None of this is Gizelle's fault.  Gizelle had ZERO to do with Monique's actions tonight.

20 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I feel the same in this situation. Candiace was wrong to have her hands in Monique's face when Monique told her to get her hand out of her face and then follow it with, "oh you're going to drag me".

Is Monique a human being or a dog who responds to stimuli?  Ashley and Wendy had their hands in each other's faces but neither one of them jumped up, pulled each other's hair into death grips, then try to run around the cameramen (after being separated) to charge at them again. Not even Porsha did all of that and the second time Monique came for Candiace she could not possibly claim she felt threatened by Candiace.

Edited September 28, 2020 by drivethroo

[charming]

Monique should be ashamed of herself and it really makes me wonder how she acts at home. She didn't have an ounce of remorse or self reflection the day after either calmly discussing how she whooped Candaice while doing her daughter's hair. Chris looked disgusted and there's no way that marriage is going to last. 

Monique's been trying to spin this story for months like Candaice was the only one at fault. She even recorded a song called "Drag Queens" bragging about what she did. 

I don't blame Candaice or the other women for not wanting to film with someone so unpredictable. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by charming

[LibertarianSlut]

13 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Because you never put hands on anyone, period. If they hit, then by all means, beat their ass. But if you hit first, you're dead wrong for that. And I'll admit that the scariest part of the situation was the eerie calm on Monique's face as she held onto Candiace's hair while multiple producers tried to get her to stop. 

But I still feel like this was a situation that went to a place it didn't need to go because both were being combative and antagonistic towards each other because they are both combative personalities. We saw it when Monique held that umbrella on Robin and we saw it when Candiace threw the knife at Ashley at the apartment.

Everyone is now acting like Monique's behavior was so "OMG", but if Chris had not been present to hold and calm Candiace down, how would that situation with her and Ashley have gone? Because the women all sat around during that incident, watching the mess unfold. Particularly Gizelle. Because creating mess and watching it all blow up is what Gizelle does best. 

I take your point, and I respect that you’re trying to see the other side, which is something I often try to do, but here’s the thing (for me)—This fight was a horse of a different color for three reasons:

1. The eerie calm that Monique exhibited that you pointed out that I bolded in the quote box
2. If Monique wanted to fight Candiace so badly, fair enough.  Vag up and call her out and they can fight fair.  Monique grabbing Candiace’s hair, hitting her on the top of the head and using the table as a barrier so that Candiace couldn’t even get in an upper cut or a kick, it was not so much a fight as much as it was an attack
3. Monique showed no remorse or contrition even well after the fact

We can speculate what might have happened last season with the butter knife if Chris had not been there, but the fact of the matter is, he was, and nothing devastating happened.  In that vein, last season, I don’t think anyone was all that jacked up when Monique threatened to drag Candiace either.  For me, what actually transpired is a lot more compelling than some dumb bitch running her mouth.  There are a lot of tough talkers.  There are not a lot of people who do what Monique did here.

And I agree that Gizelle is putrid.  

[nb360]

29 minutes ago, StillHere said:

Anyone who attended HBCU or is/were Black at PWI college or university knows a Gizelle or two. She’s an archetype and doesn’t even realize it.

Yes... I worked with someone like her. She attended Howard and she has reverends in her family. It's almost eerie to see the similarities between my former co-worker ad Gizelle. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by nb360

[eleanorofaquitaine]

27 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

Is hair pulling considered assault? If not, I can see why the charges were dropped for both women. Monique pulls hair, not assault. Candiace responds by throwing the glass, assault, Monique responds by delivering blows, major assault. I think Monique just planned on pulling a Porsha v Kenya, but didn't expect Candiace to throw the glass. When that happened, game over. 

 

 

Not a lawyer but I am pretty sure that hair pulling is considered assault. Why wouldn't it be? It's putting your hands on another person with the intent to physically harm them.  As soon as Monique escalated the altercation into physical contact - hair pulling - then IMO she's the one at fault. 

Not a big Candiace fan but I think it is a bit pointless to say if Chris hadn't been there last season, then she would have assaulted Ashley. Chris was there, no assault took place and we don't know if cooler heads would have prevailed. 

I agree with everyone that the most troubling part of Monique's behavior was that she demonstrated no remorse whatsoever. I suspect she would have gone after Candiace again had production not stopped her. I have a temper (though thankfully I have never been in a physical fight) but I know I would have been wracked with guilt the next day. Monique wasn't and that's a bit chilling. 

[truthaboutluv]

37 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

None of this is Gizelle's fault.  Gizelle had ZERO to do with Monique's actions tonight.

Kindly re-read my post. I was referring to the drama between Candiace and Ashely at Candiace's home. I never said Gizelle had anything to do with Monique's actions tonight. 

 

Quote

Not a big Candiace fan but I think it is a bit pointless to say if Chris hadn't been there last season, then she would have assaulted Ashley. Chris was there, no assault took place and we don't know if cooler heads would have prevailed. 

I was simply using an example of when Candiace exhibited combative behavior in the past, to prove the point that I was making that both of these women have combative personalities. And unfortunately, where one or both should have been wise enough to walk away, the situation escalated to where it didn't need to be. 

And I did make it very clear that I do hold Monique fully accountable for putting her hands on Candiace. My saying that the situation escalated how it did because both of these women have combative personalities is not my absolving Monique or saying Candiace deserved having her weave almost snatched out of her head. 

Listen, I made it clear that I knew this would be an unpopular opinion and I'm cool with that. I'm just speaking here from someone who's been around combative situations where I do recognize that the person who hits first is dead wrong, but both parties are culpable for allowing a situation to escalate rather than just walk away. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[LaurelleJ]

6 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Not a lawyer but I am pretty sure that hair pulling is considered assault. Why wouldn't it be? It's putting your hands on another person with the intent to physically harm them.  As soon as Monique escalated the altercation into physical contact - hair pulling - then IMO she's the one at fault. 

This was my thought last year which is why I can't understand why both charges were dropped. The footage was provided to the courts. Unless they were dropped because there is something in the contract that says that no lawsuits can be filed. 

[truthaboutluv]

 

9 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

This was my thought last year which is why I can't understand why both charges were dropped. The footage was provided to the courts. Unless they were dropped because there is something in the contract that says that no lawsuits can be filed. 

Didn't even know the charges were dropped. I thought the case was still pending. 

Btw, best part of the episode, Ashley running out with the message on screen reading "Ashley returns from the bathroom".

Edited September 28, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[Legalbeagle421]

I think Monique's behavior was psychotic. I am indifferent to Candiace, honestly. Worse than the fact that Monique was already crazy for grabbing Candiace and holding her despite EVERYONE telling her to let go, was her (1) walking away calling Candiace a stupid bitch and calmly telling the producer that Candiace deserved it; (2) running outside to try to find Candiace again like a crazy person; and (3)calmly talking to her husband about the fight in front of her child and continuing to defend her behavior. What.a.crazy.person. There is no defense. There is nothing that Robyn or Gizelle or Ashley or Karen or Wendy or anyone else could have said or done. Monique had already made up in her mind that she was going to come for Candiace like this. I agree with Wendy. "I didn't sign up for this". Monique looked really bad and to me, there is no coming back from this. 

[BloggerAloud]

I would pay all of the good coin to get just ONE confessional from Rich Chris's mother about Monique and the fight.

[mbaywife123]

Messy women on a messy show with messy relationships with each other, spouses, kids, ex's ,ect.

At what point does the $$$ they are being paid for this shit show become not enough to further humiliate themselves and family members? Good Grief!!

[LaurelleJ]

As a Monique fan, it does concern me that she didn't initially show remorse for what she did. Immediately after, I sort of understand because adrenaline is still high and you are trying to make sense of what happened. The second scene with her in the kitchen with her husband, she still wasn't showing much. Maybe she was embarrassed and felt like she needs to double down on what she did to avoid looking bad, and she still had the sting of these "rumors" floating around. Looks like she will try next week, but we will see how It goes. She claims that growth is coming, and she will be on WWHL next week, so...

Gizelle said that their issues were bigger than mom shaming and sleeping, makes me wonder where she was going with that statement before the craziness escalated. 

[DanielleBowden]

5 minutes ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

I think Monique's behavior was psychotic. I am indifferent to Candiace, honestly. Worse than the fact that Monique was already crazy for grabbing Candiace and holding her despite EVERYONE telling her to let go, was her (1) walking away calling Candiace a stupid bitch and calmly telling the producer that Candiace deserved it; (2) running outside to try to find Candiace again like a crazy person; and (3)calmly talking to her husband about the fight in front of her child and continuing to defend her behavior. What.a.crazy.person. There is no defense. There is nothing that Robyn or Gizelle or Ashley or Karen or Wendy or anyone else could have said or done. Monique had already made up in her mind that she was going to come for Candiace like this. I agree with Wendy. "I didn't sign up for this". Monique looked really bad and to me, there is no coming back from this. 

I was on Team Monique when I initially heard about the fight as I couldn’t get my head around throwing a wine glass at another’s person’s face. Seeing it play out, Candiance is a mouth and so annoying, but Monique was absolutely out of control and completely at fault. It’s chilling that she had not even one ounce of remorse.  There is also the whole level of “she asked for it” or “she made me do it” ickiness that I’ll never get past. There is something way off on the Gizelle and Jamal reunion. Neither one seems into it in the least bit. I’d say they’re faking, but the girls and now Gizelle’s  dad reaction is 100% authentic. Lastly, felt very sorry for Karen when Ray said he wasn’t sure if he was still in love. That was cold,

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

Gizelle said that their issues were bigger than mom shaming and sleeping, makes me wonder where she was going with that statement before the craziness escalated. 

I'm pretty sure Gizelle was likely referring to the whole thing of Charisse putting it out there that Monique was being too cozy with her trainer and so Monique saw Candiace inviting Charisse to her anniversary party as a slap in the face to her. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[dosodog]

26 minutes ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

I think Monique's behavior was psychotic. I am indifferent to Candiace, honestly. Worse than the fact that Monique was already crazy for grabbing Candiace and holding her despite EVERYONE telling her to let go, was her (1) walking away calling Candiace a stupid bitch and calmly telling the producer that Candiace deserved it; (2) running outside to try to find Candiace again like a crazy person; and (3)calmly talking to her husband about the fight in front of her child and continuing to defend her behavior. What.a.crazy.person. There is no defense. There is nothing that Robyn or Gizelle or Ashley or Karen or Wendy or anyone else could have said or done. Monique had already made up in her mind that she was going to come for Candiace like this. I agree with Wendy. "I didn't sign up for this". Monique looked really bad and to me, there is no coming back from this. 

I would like to submit an amendment to #1:

Calmly telling the producer she deserved it while the producer was physically blocking and restraining her from leaving the bathroom. 

And for #3:  Production having to run after and almost side tackle her, to keep her away.

I feel for the 2 Chris'.  I think they genuinely like each other and their wives, do not....

[Axie]

Michael talks to Dean like I talk to my dog.   Have you been a good boy?  Who’s a good boy?

[watcherwoman]

25 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

Messy women on a messy show with messy relationships with each other, spouses, kids, ex's ,ect.

At what point does the $$$ they are being paid for this shit show become not enough to further humiliate themselves and family members? Good Grief!!

I agree, but would it seem wrong if I sent Monique Lisa Rinna's address?   

[mbaywife123]

3 minutes ago, watcherwoman said:

I agree, but would it seem wrong if I sent Monique Lisa Rinna's address?   

HAHA!

Nope, Rinna has some MAJOR Karma headed her way, feel free to point Monique in that direction.

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Kindly re-read my post. I was referring to the drama between Candiace and Ashely at Candiace's home. I never said Gizelle had anything to do with Monique's actions tonight. 

Gizelle didn't provoke anyone in either instance.  Gizelle is not Pavlov, or is she?  She didn't make Candiace wave a knife in Ashley's face (which again, Ashley came back into Candiace's house after being told to leave).

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I agree with everyone that the most troubling part of Monique's behavior was that she demonstrated no remorse whatsoever. I suspect she would have gone after Candiace again had production not stopped her.

She did:

• After Monique flips Candiace's hair twice, Gizelle puts her right hand on Monique's shoulder and is reaching for Candiace with her left hand to separate them. Candiace now has the wine glass in her left hand (it was in her right hand before).
• Monique grabs onto Candiace's hair.  Karen is trying to hold Monique back, Wendy is trying to separate them, Gizelle is trying to pull Candiace back and Robyn is just snickering.
• Candiace busts Monique in the face with the wine glass; Monique starts windmilling on Candiace.  2 producers show up to break up the fight.
• Candiace is still hitting Monique with the wine glass; Monique still has a death grip on Candiace.
• Monique is now bashing Candiace's head on the table.  A third producer shows up to break up the fight.
• Karen and two producers are trying to pull Monique off Candiace.  Robyn has kind of stepped back from the action.  Gizelle is still behind Candiace and Wendy is still trying to protect Candiace.  Monique still has a grip on Candiace and Candiace is still hitting Monique with the (broken) wine glass.
• One producer is trying to pull Candiace away; two more producers have shown up and then another producer shows up to pull Monique off Candiace. Everyone is screaming for Monique to let Candiace go.
• Monique tells the FIVE (5) producers to get off her so she can fight Candiace (who she still has a death grip on)
• After they separate them, one producer hustles Monique away.  Robyn looks shaken.  Ashley comes back from the bathroom.
• In the stairwell, Monique CALMLY tells the producer Candiace "asked for it" then tells the producer that Candiace literally wants somebody to hit her because she was running her mouth.
• Then she tells the producer since Candiace asked to be dragged, she just gave her what she wanted.  Karen tries to open the door to the stairwell to check on Monique but the producer keeps the door shut (also Monique is trying to get out).  At this point, Candiace is nowhere near Monique, so why is Monique trying to open the door to come for Candiace again?
• Candiace screams that Monique is a ghetto ass hood ass bitch (from inside the barn).  The producer refuses to let Monique out and Monique says she's going to beat Candiace's ass again.  AGAIN, Candiace is nowhere near Monique so there is no "threat."  Then she tells the producer Candiace has been asking for it since "last year."
• Gizelle is helping Candiace collect her things and saying Candiace needs to leave; Monique tells the producer she's just going to go around him and goes down the stairwell.
• The producers hustle Candiace into a car and she wants to know why she is being rushed away.  That's because Monique has now exited the barn and is now calmly walking towards where Candiace is.
• 2 producers beg Candiace to get into the car and go away when Monique comes running from the barn to charge Candiace again.  Now 3 producers are trying to restrain Monique.  She goes into the barn to collect her things, then tells Karen they bet not bring Candiace around her again or she's going to kill her.
• Then as they attend to Monique's lip, she tells Karen and Ashley that Candiace asked for it.  As Wendy, Gizelle and Robyn are looking on, Monique tells Karen if you talk shit, you get hit.
• Then as she's leaving, she tells Gizelle & Robyn they bet not bring Candiace around her again or she's gonna whoop her ass.  Monique then tells Chris about the fight and says when people keep talking shit, then the hood comes out.

And that's the problem, not Gizelle or Ashley or Candiace.  The problem is because you're not quick with your mouth like the other people are, you reverted straight back to the hood.  Monique had zero remorse when telling Chris about the fight and zero remorse when telling Chris in the kitchen about the fight. None.  Zero.  She calmly talking about beating a bitch's ass for disrespecting in front of her daughter.  That's hoodrat behavior.  That's animal behavior.  That's why Chris was standing there in that kitchen looking appalled.

I know a lot of people are upset with Wendy, Candiace, Gizelle and Robyn for playing respectability politics but none of what Candiace said justified a hood beatdown in a barn.  Sorry not sorry.

Quote

I would pay all of the good coin to get just ONE confessional from Rich Chris's mother about Monique and the fight.

Mama Samuels would say that she's always known Monique was one of those ghetto heffas from up North and that's why she doesn't mess with Monique too tough.

11 minutes ago, dosodog said:

I feel for the 2 Chris'.  I think they genuinely like each other and their wives, do not....

Yes, because they can never socialize with each other with the wives.

I know Porsha from RHOA has been in 3 fights on her show but she never did anything like what Monique did.

I spy a future alliance with Gizelle, Robyn and Wendy. I see Gizellle, Robyn, Wendy & Candiace on one side and Karen/Monique on the other with Ashley floating between the two groups. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by drivethroo

[truthaboutluv]

3 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

(which again, Ashley came back into Candiace's house after being told to leave).

At Gizelle's urging. No, Gizelle didn't place the knife in Candiace's hand and force her to act as she did. But IMO she instigated a messy situation that was already messy and it is common with her because that's who she is - an instigator. See telling a bold faced lie to Wendy that Karen called her a freelance floozy or some crap that she knew damn well wasn't true.

We can agree to disagree. No, Gizelle doesn't control anyone's actions but she is a messy instigator who instigates situation and sits back and calmly watches the fireworks explode and go "who me" when confronted about her messiness. 

[drivethroo]

5 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

At Gizelle's urging. No, Gizelle didn't place the knife in Candiace's hand and force her to act as she did. But IMO she instigated a messy situation that was already messy and it is common with her because that's who she is - an instigator.

And there are always people on reality shows who are instigators; that's their job.  If Monique or Candiace can't handle themselves without picking up knives or trying to fight people that's on them, not Gizelle.  Again, Gizelle is not Pavlov; Monique and Candiace took those actions on their own.  They don't need to be on the show if they can't resolve things without turning to violence.

5 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

See telling a bold faced lie to Wendy that Karen called her a freelance floozy or some crap that she knew damn well wasn't true.

But did Wendy try to beat down Karen about it? No.

5 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

No, Gizelle doesn't control anyone's actions but she is a messy instigator who instigates situation and sits back and calmly watches the fireworks explode and go "who me" when confronted about her messiness. 

Gizelle can be all of that and more but none of that justifies cheering on Monique for acting like a ghetto thug trying to fight people.

Edited September 28, 2020 by drivethroo

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Gizelle can be all of that and more but none of that justifies cheering on Monique for acting like a ghetto thug trying to fight people.

And for the millionth time, I NEVER said it did. I didn't even bring up Gizelle's name as it pertained to the situation with Monique and Candiace, which I clearly stated in my previous comment.

Now, I'm going to do what Candiace and Monique should have done and walk away. Because I'm not interested in the back and forth. We will agree to disagree.

Edited September 28, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[charming]

I felt bad for Gizelle's Dad! Damn, you never know when the producers will air the hot mic footage. I can't blame him for not supporting the relationship. I didn't realize Jamal cheated on Gizelle before they even got married and then her Dad didn't go to the wedding. I don't understand the hold Jamal has over her.  He's not even cute like Juan. 

[funnygirl]

I am not at all a fighter, but unpopular opinion: 

I understand that sometimes some people deserve to get their ass beat. You run your mouth and push buttons enough thinking you can go unchecked, eventually you will step to the wrong one and some form of karma will come back at you. It's why I was never mad at RHOA's Porsha for going at Kenya. 

 

[TexasGal]

Thanks @drivethroo for the play by play!  I watched multiple times and could not figure out what was going on until everyone was trying to separate them and Monique had the death grip on Candiace’s hair.  Then her bypassing the producer to try to get at Candiace in the car was scary.  Wow.  
 
Gizelle’s dad for the win this episode.  6 or 7 baby mommas?  Again, wow.  

[RealReality]

Hair pulling is assault and battery I believe.  Its been a while since criminal law.  

Whether throwing a glass would be self defense would depend on whether it was a proportionate, reasonable response.  

Ugh, I'm so desperate to watch this episode I'm waiting until midnight to see if it uploads.