S02.E08: Perception is Reality

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

Empathy from strangers allows Betty to avoid facing what she's done, until she can't any more.

Promo:

Original air date: 7/14/20

[Spartan Girl]

Seeing Betty so giddy over her fan mail and completely oblivious to her children's fear and grief was sickening.

The last scene of Betty imagining how things could have been different had she not pulled all her stunts and just moved on with her life was sad though.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[txhorns79]

The episode was a little meh, and felt like they were rushing to end things to the point where very little had much emotional impact.  I thought the best scene was the ending, showing a few little moments, that if handled differently, could have led to a much different outcome for everyone.

As to Betty, it's not surprising she believed her own hype.   Even in jail, she's still deluding herself and is her own worst enemy.   

[Bulldog]

I liked Betty's slight little smile when her own prosecutor said that Dan should not have done the things he did.  She seemed so completely oblivious to the fact that there was a very big BUT coming.  She truly believed that nobody could view her actions any differently than she did. 

Eight episodes in and I never learned the friends' names.  The Missi Pyle character certainly did an about face on the witness stand. 

If the juror interviews were representative of the real juries (and I have no idea if they were), it was interesting that it was the male jurors who seemed to have the most sympathy for Betty (in the first trial, at least).  I know that there was a juror in the second trial who has really said she would not have voted to convict had she known the sentence Betty would receive.  I always thought when the judge charged a jury, they were instructed not to consider the potential sentence when deciding guilt.

Overall, not a bad series.  An interesting diversion during a summer when there is very little else to see on television.      

[Annber03]

"I don't know if she can get well. I think she needs to just get old."

Well, if that doesn't sum it all up. 

That bit with her daughters in the courtroom as she was being led away actually got me choked up. As did that ending, with her singing on the phone and the memories and images flashing through her mind. Just...really drives home how incredibly sad this whole story is at the end of the day.

The back and forth between Betty and the prosecutor. Damn. That was intense. It was absolutely fascinating, though, because on the one hand, I genuinely do think on some level Betty was not in her right mind that night. I do think there is some truth to her whole thing about all these wild thoughts in her head and that bit about her eyeballs and whatnot. 

And yet, on the other hand, I do also fully believe she knew exactly what she was doing, too. I don't think her contradictions in her story are fully the result of her just being so mentally out of it. I think a lot of it is definitely her trying to find the right way to tell her story, in a way that makes her look good and sympathetic. And you do not bring a gun with you to a confrontation unless you intend to use it. You just don't. Somebody was going to die that night, whether it was Betty or Dan and/or Linda. I appreciate the way the prosecutor called Betty out on her "tensing up" defense. I think that perfectly laid out just how calculated and deadly Betty's rage truly was. 

It's just so strange, the way she can be both in and out of control of her actions all at the same time. It just further confirms that there was something significantly deeply wrong with her. 

I'm also struck by the fact that the prosecutor was a woman, while Betty's defense lawyer was a man. I find that interesting. Especially when you consider how much sympathy she was getting from so many women as it was. I wonder if any of the people Betty sent letters to still have them. 

(I did get a chuckle out of the bit where one of Betty's friends was talking about how materialistic she was and how she was an alcoholic and all that, and her lawyer was like, "And yet you called her a friend.")

43 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Seeing Betty so giddy over her fan mail and completely oblivious to her children's fear and grief was sickening.

Yeeeeeah, that scene with her and her boys was...yikes. I'm not surprised she'd get giddy over the mail, because she clearly thrives on attention. But yeah, everything with her children this episode was rough, as was to be expected, of course. 

I also liked how the show handled Betty's flashbacks to the night of that murder. All those quick flashes both did a great job of putting us in Betty's frantic, messy state of mind and were genuinely creepy in general. It made the moment when we did see the actual murder all the more horrifying. I actually flinched a little. 

Very interesting to get the reactions from some of the jurors, too. That one woman realizing that Betty may be in jail much longer than she thought. Wow. I have no doubt there was some pretty heated debate among them. 

Fascinating take on such an infamous story. Just so incredibly sad, infuriating, and awful. It's amazing how much debate this case still causes to this very day. 

[DanaK]

7 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Fascinating take on such an infamous story. Just so incredibly sad, infuriating, and awful. It's amazing how much debate this case still causes to this very day. 

Yep, that’s how I see all those statements. Given how people still talk about it today and people are still takings sides, it’s clear the whole situation was not as cut and dry as some would like. And as others have sad, you can still feel sad for Betty, feel Dan and Linda were jerks, yet still feel Betty was out of control and shouldn’t have killed them

[Lady of nod]

"Lee was the only one of the couple’s four children who had been cut from Dan’s will. Dan took her out of the will shortly after she had left his house to go stay with her mother, according to a 1993 article in The Los Angeles Times."

Interesting. He was a dick. Didn't deserve to be murdered, but a dick none the less. 

I think she's served enough time.

[mamadrama]

Dan was an asshole and treated Betty poorly. He did some infuriating things.

Linda was a bitch who did nothing to help her relationship with the first wife.

Betty is probably mentally ill but should not have killed them.

This is one of those cases in which a bunch of different things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[jalady]

As much as I’ve followed this case (LOVE the Lifetime movies!), I didn’t realize she wasn’t convicted of first degree murder.  Come on!  She went over there to kill Dan and Linda, point blank period.  And to quote Chris Rock “I’m not saying I agree, but I understand “.  But I still would have voted for premeditated murder.

 

[cardigirl]

Well, parts of this ending were interesting, and once again, Betty undid herself by not listening to her lawyer.  (Not sure how true that was, but probably pretty true.) 

What a sad sad mess. I did like the "regrets" scene where if they had chosen different actions, things might have played out a little more happily. 

I still think Dan stacked the legal deck against her, and she felt herself powerless (whether she was or not) against all that was done to her life. She lost her life and couldn't survive.  Lots of women have gone through, especially since the devaluation of the institution of marriage by the laws of our country. Betty had been taught to be a wife and a mother and then learned there was no value in the eyes of the court in any of that. So very sad. 

But also very sad is the fact that she cannot express any remorse for what she did to her children by taking their father away from them, and their mother too. You can agree all you want that Dan treated her terribly, but the fact that she has no remorse for the murders means that you cannot side with her completely.  I guess that's what draws people to the story.  

[poeticlicensed]

3 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

But also very sad is the fact that she cannot express any remorse for what she did to her children by taking their father away from them, and their mother too.

For 30 years! It boggles the mind that in 3 decades, she hasn't gained any insight or empathy. 

I tuned into the Snapped sneak peek, but turned it off because I was too tired to watch. It was super interesting that they started off from the POV of the cops who came to the scene, who found 2 bodies and quickly ascertained that there was a crazy lady with a gun loose in San Diego. I also didn't realize that it was Betty's boyfriend who discovered the bodies. I always thought it was a neighbor. 

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

"Lee was the only one of the couple’s four children who had been cut from Dan’s will. Dan took her out of the will shortly after she had left his house to go stay with her mother, according to a 1993 article in The Los Angeles Times."

Interesting. He was a dick. Didn't deserve to be murdered, but a dick none the less. 

In one of the other threads, it was noted that there were a lot of problems going on with Lee at the time she was cut out of the will, and it wasn't something Dan did as a punishment for anything related to Betty.

 

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I still think Dan stacked the legal deck against her, and she felt herself powerless (whether she was or not) against all that was done to her life. She lost her life and couldn't survive.  Lots of women have gone through, especially since the devaluation of the institution of marriage by the laws of our country. Betty had been taught to be a wife and a mother and then learned there was no value in the eyes of the court in any of that. So very sad. 

Dan didn't stack the legal deck against Betty.  She terminated her lawyers, violated multiple court orders and dragged out her divorce, costing herself quite a bit of money.  I don't pretend Dan treated Betty well, but Betty sabotaged herself repeatedly. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

For 30 years! It boggles the mind that in 3 decades, she hasn't gained any insight or empathy. 

I tuned into the Snapped sneak peek, but turned it off because I was too tired to watch. It was super interesting that they started off from the POV of the cops who came to the scene, who found 2 bodies and quickly ascertained that there was a crazy lady with a gun loose in San Diego. I also didn't realize that it was Betty's boyfriend who discovered the bodies. I always thought it was a neighbor. 

I watched a portion of the Snapped, too, and I loved the retired San Diego detective.  Looked the part and everything!  I, too, do not understand  how first degree was not met.  She bought a gun, practiced with it, told people she was going to kill them.....and did!  Perhaps if Betty had been a lower income woman of color......hmm......

 

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The last scene of Betty imagining how things could have been different had she not pulled all her stunts and just moved on with her life was sad though.

I agree.  I thought the montage of her shooting them was well done.  Just quick snippets, I don't need to see them blown away with five bullets, thanks.

[Persnickety1]

2 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

For 30 years! It boggles the mind that in 3 decades, she hasn't gained any insight or empathy. 

I tuned into the Snapped sneak peek, but turned it off because I was too tired to watch. It was super interesting that they started off from the POV of the cops who came to the scene, who found 2 bodies and quickly ascertained that there was a crazy lady with a gun loose in San Diego. I also didn't realize that it was Betty's boyfriend who discovered the bodies. I always thought it was a neighbor. 

Did you notice the inaccuracies right out of the gate on that Snapped episode?  They said Linda was 25 (she was 28), they never mentioned Brian Forbes hauling ass over there with Brad Wright and discovering the bodies (no mention of Forbes being there at all; your recollection was correct in that it wasn't just Brad and I've no clue why Forbes' part in the phone call and the discovery of the bodies wasn't mentioned), and the one cop saying the ME had stated Dan lived for 20 minutes after he was shot (I literally just watched the Court TV actual proceedings just the night before and my recollection is the ME couldn't pinpoint how long Dan had survived, could have been 30 seconds or at the outside 30 minutes)?  And the final eye roll that made me shut it off for the night was the insinuation that Dan didn't start a "romance" with Linda until after the separation.  The lack of any basic fact checking in just the first 10 minutes or so made me wonder how quickly Oxygen churned this out just to cash in on the notoriety of Dirty John.  

I really enjoyed this season in spite of my skepticism about Peet and Slater in the lead roles.  I realized at some point the reason I had a hard time accepting Peet as Betty was because Peet could almost pass for my stepdaughter's twin who has a heart of gold.  

This series had an amazing soundtrack, but I think it would have been appropriate in the early episodes to find a way to use "I Know There's Something Going On" by Frida.  It would have been perfect in the early scenes about Dan and Linda.

I loved the ending when Betty was singing 12th of Never and the collage of how a few different decisions would (could) have changed the course of events.  I especially loved the clip of Dan giving his wife and the mother of his four children the respect she deserved - The truth about Linda.    

And I belong to a handful of Broderick groups on Facebook and found this gem (putting it in spoilers even though the series is done in case some posters haven't had a chance to watch):  

Spoiler

One of the posters in a group plugged in Linda's name on Facebook and came back with hits of two pictures by one of Linda's (Dan's?) friends, both of which were Irish/Notre Dame/whatever Dan-related activities...One was taken in 1984 and the other in 1985.  Her sister Maggie was also in one of the photos, so obviously Linda's family had to have known of her relationship with Dan, along with many of his and presumably Betty's friends.  Ugh.  

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Persnickety1

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I still think Dan stacked the legal deck against her, and she felt herself powerless (whether she was or not) against all that was done to her life. She lost her life and couldn't survive.  Lots of women have gone through, especially since the devaluation of the institution of marriage by the laws of our country. Betty had been taught to be a wife and a mother and then learned there was no value in the eyes of the court in any of that. So very sad. 

My mom said that when they showed Betty's face as she got the verdict, she had this look almost like she was thinking, "And Dan wins again." She thought this would finally be the time the courts would be on her side, but nope, once again, in her mind, it's another instance of the system being against her. 

Quote

But also very sad is the fact that she cannot express any remorse for what she did to her children by taking their father away from them, and their mother too. You can agree all you want that Dan treated her terribly, but the fact that she has no remorse for the murders means that you cannot side with her completely.  I guess that's what draws people to the story.  

Agreed. Well put. 

34 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

This series had an amazing soundtrack, but I think it would have been appropriate in the early episodes to find a way to use "I Know There's Something Going On" by Frida.  It would have been perfect in the early scenes about Dan and Linda.

 

Ooh, good call!

I agree on the soundtrack as well. It tickles me a bit that Mark Mothersbaugh of Devo did the score for this series as well :D. 

[poeticlicensed]

42 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

Did you notice the inaccuracies right out of the gate on that Snapped episode?  They said Linda was 25 (she was 28), they never mentioned Brian Forbes hauling ass over there with Brad Wright and discovering the bodies (no mention of Forbes being there at all; your recollection was correct in that it wasn't just Brad and I've no clue why Forbes' part in the phone call and the discovery of the bodies wasn't mentioned), and the one cop saying the ME had stated Dan lived for 20 minutes after he was shot (I literally just watched the Court TV actual proceedings just the night before and my recollection is the ME couldn't pinpoint how long Dan had survived, could have been 30 seconds or at the outside 30 minutes)?  And the final eye roll that made me shut it off for the night was the insinuation that Dan didn't start a "romance" with Linda until after the separation.  The lack of any basic fact checking in just the first 10 minutes or so made me wonder how quickly Oxygen churned this out just to cash in on the notoriety of Dirty John.  

They also kept showing shots of the Coral Reef house and saying that was Betty's La Jolla house. Nope. 

[lovesnark]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

In one of the other threads, it was noted that there were a lot of problems going on with Lee at the time she was cut out of the will, and it wasn't something Dan did as a punishment for anything related to Betty.

 

Dan didn't stack the legal deck against Betty.  She terminated her lawyers, violated multiple court orders and dragged out her divorce, costing herself quite a bit of money.  I don't pretend Dan treated Betty well, but Betty sabotaged herself repeatedly. 

Lee had been using drugs and alcohol, not going to school, taking off for days and had been stealing from Dan. He took her to inpatient rehab twice and, both times, she called Betty to come get her because 'she wasn't like these people'. Betty picked her up both times and Lee stayed with her for a while. At the time of the murders, Dan had let her move into the pool house and they were working on repairing their relationship. 

While there is a whole lot of detailed info about Betty's behavior regarding the divorce out there, I think the show did an okay job of showing that Betty's actions were the reason it dragged on for so long. I don't understand why people think Dan had the power to strip her of everything just because he was a lawyer in SanDiego. When you're going through a contentious divorce, especially one involving a lot of money and assets, you hire the best attorney you can find and DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU.  Dan was a dick, for sure. But, it wasn't his fault that Betty refused to listen to the very good attorneys she had.

Edited July 15, 2020 by lovesnark

[toodles]

I was so disappointed in this mini series.  Betty was and is an extremely self centered and greedy person.  I guess the story was told from Betty's pov, but they really cleaned her up for this.  Betty is on YouTube and she is loud and whiny.  Physically she was unkempt.  I didn't buy the actress as Betty for one minute.  

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Did you notice the inaccuracies right out of the gate on that Snapped episode?  

The Snapped thing didn't seem to mention that Dan had been having an prolonged extramarital affair either.

[SuzieQ]

Well that was a roller coaster ride!!  Having known so much of the story beforehand, it was easy to follow, but as a whole, this series, if that was all you knew about the situation was really slanted in Betty's favor.  To be fair, the original movies were slanted to Dan and Linda, so interesting perspectives for both.

I think it's clear Betty became mentally ill, but not legally insane.  While she was on trial for her life, it appears her only concern was to prove Dan was a dick and Linda a slut.  That's just so messed up!  

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

The Snapped thing didn't seem to mention that Dan had been having an prolonged extramarital affair either.

Tonight is the full Snapped. Hoping that they go into this. I suspect that they are bringing the audience in like they know nothing and it all gets revealed. Or I will be so disappointed. Not a huge fan of Snapped, but I like when I watch and my husband comes in and says whatcha watching and I say Snapped, when the women kill people. 

[Elizzikra]

17 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

"Lee was the only one of the couple’s four children who had been cut from Dan’s will. Dan took her out of the will shortly after she had left his house to go stay with her mother, according to a 1993 article in The Los Angeles Times."

Interesting. He was a dick. Didn't deserve to be murdered, but a dick none the less. 

I think she's served enough time.

In fairness, at the time Lee had substance abuse issues and had left rehab prematurely a couple of times. Dan’s states rationale for removing Lee from his will was that she would spend any money he left her on drugs. A lot of people with substance abusing children would do the same thing. He could always have put her back in if she got sober.

[chick binewski]

10 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I tuned into the Snapped sneak peek, but turned it off because I was too tired to watch. It was super interesting that they started off from the POV of the cops who came to the scene, who found 2 bodies and quickly ascertained that there was a crazy lady with a gun loose in San Diego. I also didn't realize that it was Betty's boyfriend who discovered the bodies. I always thought it was a neighbor. 

 

8 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Did you notice the inaccuracies right out of the gate on that Snapped episode?  They said Linda was 25 (she was 28), they never mentioned Brian Forbes hauling ass over there with Brad Wright and discovering the bodies (no mention of Forbes being there at all; your recollection was correct in that it wasn't just Brad and I've no clue why Forbes' part in the phone call and the discovery of the bodies wasn't mentioned), and the one cop saying the ME had stated Dan lived for 20 minutes after he was shot (I literally just watched the Court TV actual proceedings just the night before and my recollection is the ME couldn't pinpoint how long Dan had survived, could have been 30 seconds or at the outside 30 minutes)?  And the final eye roll that made me shut it off for the night was the insinuation that Dan didn't start a "romance" with Linda until after the separation.  The lack of any basic fact checking in just the first 10 minutes or so made me wonder how quickly Oxygen churned this out just to cash in on the notoriety of Dirty John.  

Betty's boyfriend has received very little mention in every telling of this story. The Lifetime movie showed a man at Thanksgiving dinner and DJ mentioned him during the trial; neither explored Betty as a social individual other than as someone who crashed her friends' lunches to call Linda names.

I like my crime shows but many of them are guilty of what Snapped did last night - taking a pearl-clutching stand without stating the facts as they actually happened. Not that I'd find Betty's actions excusable under any circumstances, but I don't think they even got the divorce/remarriage dates right.

I had a lot of trouble focusing on this episode. To me, Peet never came close to getting Betty right. Betty had that hard, sharp energy that comes with madness and Peet's character seemed simply made of sadness. I don't think it was an accurate portrayal of her, but I do think this version exposed Dan & Linda a bit more.

[TattleTeeny]

OK, if last night’s Snapped episode was a “sneak peek,” why is the episode that’s on right now the same length, timewise? Is there supposed to be more or what? I don’t want to watch it again!

[preeya]

23 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

I think she's served enough time.

I don't think she could survive in the real world, which would be nothing like she was accustomed to, prior to incarceration.

Edited July 16, 2020 by preeya

[kitmerlot1213]

I thoroughly enjoyed this series and I think it was pretty evenhanded in showing the bad behavior of both the Brodericks.  I liked the reactions to all of the kids at their mom's trial--the boys were barely able to look at her while the girls were in tears at watching Betty be lead away.  I especially liked the scene where Tracey (Kim) put her arm around a crying Jenn (Lee)--I hope the kids were able to keep their close bond while growing up in this chaos because the four of them are the only ones who truly know what happened in their parents homes.

The ending montage of scenes where Betty and Dan made better life choices was just heart-breaking because if any of those choices had actually happened, Dan and Linda would still be alive and Betty wouldn't be in jail.

[gesundheit]

I really liked this series as a piece of art, I appreciated that it didn't try to adhere too closely to a story that's already been covered. And I was grateful the writers and Peet really made the character their own creation. I'm still not quite sure why they left out the boyfriend, though, that seems extremely important - not just to draw a better picture of the fact that Betty was at least putting on a pretense of moving on, but of the crime discovery itself. Were there any interviews about this series that helped explain that (apologies if they were discussed for earlier episodes, I had been shying away from online discussion because I assumed much of it would indeed focus on reality vs this version and I really wanted to appreciate this version on its own merits first).

Hopefully people bothered to watch this, I'd love to see Peet and Slater get some award nominations for their excellent work.

[Fable]

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

The ending montage of scenes where Betty and Dan made better life choices was just heart-breaking because if any of those choices had actually happened, Dan and Linda would still be alive and Betty wouldn't be in jail.

I’m not sure I agree.  I think if Dan had told Betty he was in love with Linda, she may have killed him on the spot.  Pure speculation of course. 

[DanaK]

8 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Hopefully people bothered to watch this, I'd love to see Peet and Slater get some award nominations for their excellent work.

I read its ratings are maybe half of Season 1, though it seems to be getting a lot of attention and mostly positive reviews

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The trial took place about thirty years ago and the sexism was still pretty apparent. I wanted to high five Betty's lawyer when he objected to the DA repeatedly saying that she dumped her kids at Dan's and then he pointed out that bringing kids to their father isn't dumping them. Funny how no one thought Dan dumped the kids on Betty for their entire lives.

While Betty's motivation for leaving the kids with Dan was selfish and petty, it's still worth pointing out that he was their father so expecting him to take some responsibility for them aside from providing money wasn't unreasonable once they were separated.

I did enjoy the Sliding Doors segment at the end. As I said earlier in the season, this situation was about three people who made a series of bad choices over the course of several years. It's possible that if one of them had made better choices even once or twice, things could have turned out differently. Instead all three of them chose to be selfish vindictive assholes at every opportunity which only continued to escalate the situation.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[kitmerlot1213]

I forgot to mention the prank calls Betty made to her former friends, pretending that she had escaped and needed their help--man, but that was just bizarre.  I'm sure it wasn't pleasant to hear that they were sick of her and tired of listening to her complain about Dan, but Betty has to realize that they were very supportive of her and offered her very sage advice that she refused to listen to. Plus, she killed two people--I don't know many people who could remain friends with a confessed murderer.

I also couldn't believe that amount of people writing to Betty letters of support during her murder trials.  I know I've read about different cases in the news that have enraged me or saddened me, but I've never actually written to a prisoner.  That's pretty hardcore.

[Persnickety1]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The trial took place about thirty years ago and the sexism was still pretty apparent. I wanted to high five Betty's lawyer when he objected to the DA repeatedly saying that she dumped her kids at Dan's and then he pointed out that bringing kids to their father isn't dumping them. Funny how no one thought Dan dumped the kids on Betty for their entire lives.

While Betty's motivation for leaving the kids with Dan was selfish and petty, it's still worth pointing out that he was their father so expecting him to take some responsibility for them aside from providing money wasn't unreasonable once they were separated.

I did enjoy the Sliding Doors segment at the end. As I said earlier in the season, this situation was about three people who made a series of bad choices over the course of several years. It's possible that if one of them had made better choices even once or twice, things could have turned out differently. Instead all three of them chose to be selfish vindictive assholes at every opportunity which only continued to escalate the situation.

I totally agree.  While I don't agree at all with how Betty handled it, I certainly understand why she wanted Dan to shoulder some of the "heavy lifting" in actually parenting his own children.  There were surely better ways she could have handled that situation (but her strategy - like many of her strategies - bit her in the arse in the end anyway).  She was so extreme.

"He won't talk to me, that bastard.  I know, I'LL DRIVE THROUGH HIS FRONT DOOR AND GET HIS ATTENTION!!!"

"He's living like a frat boy with his whore.  I know, I'LL JUST DROP THE KIDS OFF ON HIS DOORSTEP WITH NO WARNING!!!"

And of course, as we know, her judgment just became increasingly worse.  

9 hours ago, Fable said:

I’m not sure I agree.  I think if Dan had told Betty he was in love with Linda, she may have killed him on the spot.  Pure speculation of course. 

Mini Persnickety and I were batting around this scenario last night.  Yeah, she might have killed him on the spot...or maybe had he been honest from the outset and spared her years of deception, she might have been more rational about the situation (key word being "might").  

43 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I forgot to mention the prank calls Betty made to her former friends, pretending that she had escaped and needed their help--man, but that was just bizarre.  I'm sure it wasn't pleasant to hear that they were sick of her and tired of listening to her complain about Dan, but Betty has to realize that they were very supportive of her and offered her very sage advice that she refused to listen to. Plus, she killed two people--I don't know many people who could remain friends with a confessed murderer.

I also couldn't believe that amount of people writing to Betty letters of support during her murder trials.  I know I've read about different cases in the news that have enraged me or saddened me, but I've never actually written to a prisoner.  That's pretty hardcore.

I would have laughed my ass off had I been friends with Betty and received one of those calls.  I thought it was hilarious (but I have a pretty twisted sense of humor).   Had I been friends with Betty and knew the details behind what Dan and Linda had done, I certainly would never condone her actions, but I believe I would have stayed at least on speaking terms with her after the murders...as long as there was a time limit on the calls and she couldn't blather on about Dan and Linda for 4 hours at a time.  Ain't nobody got time for that shit.

Spoiler

Anyone watching the trial on Court TV and hear Betty's lawyer bringing up a few times an incident where Dan dumped a pitcher of beer over Linda's head?  I can't wait to find out the details behind that.  Hopefully it will be explained in the 3 books I've ordered about this case (thank you, quarantine, for giving me time to catch up on reading).  

 

[Carolina Girl]

15 hours ago, chick binewski said:

but I don't think they even got the divorce/remarriage dates right.

They didn't even get the whole BIRTHDAY incident right.  They said Betty arrived and "caught" Dan and Linda together.  Uh, this is bullshit for two reasons (1) they weren't there - they were out to lunch; (2) it was the friggin' OFFICE - they would both have every reason to be there.  The episode tried to make it sound like she walked in on them making out.

[Persnickety1]

17 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

They didn't even get the whole BIRTHDAY incident right.  They said Betty arrived and "caught" Dan and Linda together.  Uh, this is bullshit for two reasons (1) they weren't there - they were out to lunch; (2) it was the friggin' OFFICE - they would both have every reason to be there.  The episode tried to make it sound like she walked in on them making out.

Right!  Damn, I finally watched the whole thing last night and my mouth fell open at that depiction of her walking in on some sort of sexual encounter between Dan and Linda.  That Snapped episode is totally misleading for anyone not familiar with the case and a real eye rolling experience for anyone who is familiar with the case. 

I don't care whose side they wanted to fall on, but at least present actual facts in the episode whether it's pro Betty, pro Dan, or neutral.  This was a total waste of time.  😕    

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

Anyone watching the trial on Court TV and hear Betty's lawyer bringing up a few times an incident where Dan dumped a pitcher of beer over Linda's head?  I can't wait to find out the details behind that.  Hopefully it will be explained in the 3 books I've ordered about this case (thank you, quarantine, for giving me time to catch up on reading).  

 

Bella Stumbo's book mentions it briefly - some people say it never happened and others say it did. 

[Persnickety1]

2 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Bella Stumbo's book mentions it briefly - some people say it never happened and others say it did. 

That's one of the books I've ordered.  I read it years ago but must have discounted the incident when it couldn't be verified and forgot about it.  Thanks for the tip, @Elizzikra!

[Mrs. Hanson]

23 hours ago, lovesnark said:

While there is a whole lot of detailed info about Betty's behavior regarding the divorce out there, I think the show did an okay job of showing that Betty's actions were the reason it dragged on for so long. I don't understand why people think Dan had the power to strip her of everything just because he was a lawyer in SanDiego. When you're going through a contentious divorce, especially one involving a lot of money and assets, you hire the best attorney you can find and DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU.  Dan was a dick, for sure. But, it wasn't his fault that Betty refused to listen to the very good attorneys she had.

I agree!!  Yes, Dan was a lawyer, but he was a malpractive lawyer.  Not saying he did not know the ins and outs, but Betty and friends care giving him way too much credit.  Like somone else said elsewhere, lots of judges, deputies, clerks, and lawyers get divorced, every day.  San Diego was, and is, a big town.  She wanted to blame Dan's influence for not getting a good attorney.  I call total BS on that, as lawyers tend to be aggresive and love to one up each other.

 

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I did enjoy the Sliding Doors segment at the end

I did, too.  It reminded me of the movie "Unfaithful" where you get to see if Diana Ladd had just cabbed it home after scratching her leg.

I think Amanda Peet did a fantastic job, she did play Betty as more sad than manic.  Look Up Betty on Youtube and see her in all her glory.  She is jittery and loud.

[Tabbygirl521]

If you’re still looking for “Until the Twelfth of Never,” check out thriftbooks.com. They have a new paperback version for just under $20.

Also, today I was able to check out the ebook from my local library. 

[Persnickety1]

10 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

If you’re still looking for “Until the Twelfth of Never,” check out thriftbooks.com. They have a new paperback version for just under $20.

Also, today I was able to check out the ebook from my local library. 

I was able to score a copy of Forsaking All Others (averaging well over $200 on Amazon) at Thirftbooks.com for $19.99.  Great and reasonably priced source.  

[sadie]

I’ve read two books on this, and watched the Meredith Baxter movies so I’d say I’m very well versed on this story, but damn they actually managed to choke me up with that “what if” montage at the end. Seeing all 3 of them just make ONE better decision thru this mess and it might have ended up different. Seeing Dan and Linda at the end sitting together and smiling at each other really got me, and I really didn’t like either of them as people.

I wonder if Betty ever considered by murdering them this way they would be FOREVER entwined together, had she just let it play out they would probably be divorced by now. 

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I forgot to mention the prank calls Betty made to her former friends, pretending that she had escaped and needed their help--man, but that was just bizarre.  I'm sure it wasn't pleasant to hear that they were sick of her and tired of listening to her complain about Dan, but Betty has to realize that they were very supportive of her and offered her very sage advice that she refused to listen to. Plus, she killed two people--I don't know many people who could remain friends with a confessed murderer.

Yeah, those prank calls were all kinds of WTF? I appreciate the way they kept trying to help her and steer her in the right direction during much of her divorce proceedings, but yeah, I also get distancing oneself after a while, too. It can be exhausting having to deal with people whose lives are 24/7 drama...much of which they bring upon themselves. And after a while, you just get sick of trying to help them, because you know your advice is going to just go in one ear and out the other. 

The whole thing about killing two people-it'd be one thing, even, for people to understand or sympathize with Betty killing Dan, given how mentally and emotionally cruel he was to her. It's much harder to sympathize with her killing Linda. Yeah, Linda knowingly went after a married man with children, which was wrong, but like stated in a prior discussion, she's not the one who made the marriage vows to Betty. She didn't "steal" Dan away, he made the choice to leave. She was a young woman who was foolish enough to let herself get caught up in something that, perhaps with time, she might've realized was a bad idea. She shouldn't have been the target of Betty's rage. Yet not only did Betty take away her children's father, she also took away another family's daughter and friend. And as noted, she's shown zero remorse or guilt for doing so. Hard to understand or sympathize with that. 

Quote

I also couldn't believe that amount of people writing to Betty letters of support during her murder trials.  I know I've read about different cases in the news that have enraged me or saddened me, but I've never actually written to a prisoner.  That's pretty hardcore.

Same. Just like the women who write letters to murderers they're attracted to. The motivations are different, but the support remains equally as intense. The only time I think I would ever even dare consider writing to someone in prison is if it was clear the prisoner was wrongly convicted and I wanted to express my support in helping to free them.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Annber03

[Joimiaroxeu]

In this episode Betty reminded me of Jody Arias. Jody stabbed her ex-boyfriend to death, and then tried to claim he'd been abusing her and she just snapped. She went on 60 Minutes and assured the reporter she could convince a jury to find her innocent. She had the big cow eyes and woe was me demeanor down pat. Now she and her arrogance are enjoying a life sentence in prison.

Did Betty's former girlfriends testify voluntarily or were they subpoenaed? Betty's prank calls to them probably didn't help the situation.

Reasonable doubt? Betty was a sharpshooter and she put five bullets right into Dan and Linda without blinking. I think it's sad how mentally ill she was, and Dan and Linda arguably provoked her repeatedly. However, you can always choose not to kill someone who isn't in the moment actually threatening your life. But, sometimes people who feel victimized just want a sense of power and taking control, even for a fleeting moment that will ultimately ruin their life.

I wonder if Betty actually did consider all the times she could have decided to not let her emotions overrule her good sense, or was that just some dramatic flair the producers added?

[Persnickety1]

4 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

In this episode Betty reminded me of Jody Arias. Jody stabbed her ex-boyfriend to death, and then tried to claim he'd been abusing her and she just snapped. She went on 60 Minutes and assured the reporter she could convince a jury to find her innocent. She had the big cow eyes and woe was me demeanor down pat. Now she and her arrogance are enjoying a life sentence in prison.

Did Betty's former girlfriends testify voluntarily or were they subpoenaed? Betty's prank calls to them probably didn't help the situation.

Reasonable doubt? Betty was a sharpshooter and she put five bullets right into Dan and Linda without blinking. I think it's sad how mentally ill she was, and Dan and Linda arguably provoked her repeatedly. However, you can always choose not to kill someone who isn't in the moment actually threatening your life. But, sometimes people who feel victimized just want a sense of power and taking control, even for a fleeting moment that will ultimately ruin their life.

I wonder if Betty actually did consider all the times she could have decided to not let her emotions overrule her good sense, or was that just some dramatic flair the producers added?

I watched that entire Arias trial and watched a couple of specials on her, too.  Another fascinating case. 

I think on some levels, for Jodi it will always be June 4, 2008 in her mind, and it will forever be November 5, 1989 in Betty's mind.  

I wouldn't be surprised to learn Jodi still refers to Travis in the present tense and Betty refers to Dan in the present tense.   

 

[DanaK]

36 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I watched that entire Arias trial and watched a couple of specials on her, too.  Another fascinating case. 

I think on some levels, for Jodi it will always be June 4, 2008 in her mind, and it will forever be November 5, 1989 in Betty's mind.  

I wouldn't be surprised to learn Jodi still refers to Travis in the present tense and Betty refers to Dan in the present tense.   

 

It's interesting to compare these various cases and where one sides on the matter, especially years later. In Betty's case, both sides were clearly wrong and even if you feel sorry for Betty and thought Dan was an ass, killing two people was wrong (of course, there are people to this day who cheer Betty on). Lorena Bobbitt is another case where it was huge headlines and remains a fascination to this day. Though some will question where she really was raped and beaten and whether she should have cut off John's penis, it's clear these days that Lorena went on to live a fairly normal life and kept out of trouble, even remarrying and apparently being very happy and is a victim's advocate. John Bobbitt on the other hand has had repeated cases of abuse of his girlfriends and run-ins with the law and cashed in on his notoriety and continues to show what a scumbag he really is

Strangely enough, I recall not wanting to bother with Jodi Arias, perhaps thinking it was nothing more than did she or did she not kill the guy and people were only interested because she was pretty or something. So I mostly didn't watch most of the coverage because I was sick of it pretty quickly. It seems like that was one of the few times I did that

Edited July 16, 2020 by DanaK

[Armchair Critic]

2 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

I wouldn't be surprised to learn Betty refers to Dan in the present tense.   

She does, you'll see that in the books.

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:

She does, you'll see that in the books.

She's just too far gone, isn't she? Her attorney is right, she'll never let it go. Whatever broke inside of her seems to have been damaged for good. MAYBE good psychotherapy and better drugs would've helped, but not even those couldn't have done any good to a woman who doesn't WANT them to work. It's sad. Dan Broderick wasn't worth it. She might have taken his life, but she let her anger at him take hers. 

[geauxaway]

I’d like to know when the phone systems in the prison changed.  All outgoing calls have to be accepted by the receiving party, if they don’t answer you can’t leave a message.  There’s no way Betty could have made those prank calls, if someone is calling you from prison the call states before the receiver accepts that “this is a call from the blankety blank correctional facility.”  All calls are recorded.  You have to have a calling card, there is no money in prison, but I suppose they install the same phones as the public phones, but the 25 cents per call on the phone jumped out at me.

What was the deal with the fans in the court room?

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Betty's prank calls to them probably didn't help the situation.

That was just insane to me.  I just wanted someone to shake Betty and ask her what the heck she was doing.  She's in prison for murder, and she's acting like she's involved in some kind of never-ending slumber party.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

MAYBE good psychotherapy and better drugs would've helped, but not even those couldn't have done any good to a woman who doesn't WANT them to work. 

She was in a mental hospital at least once and she certainly had access to good healthcare. I think that she didn't want help. She never acknowledged that she needed help - she insisted that Dan was "the crazy one."

[Persnickety1]

14 hours ago, mamadrama said:

She's just too far gone, isn't she? Her attorney is right, she'll never let it go. Whatever broke inside of her seems to have been damaged for good. MAYBE good psychotherapy and better drugs would've helped, but not even those couldn't have done any good to a woman who doesn't WANT them to work. It's sad. Dan Broderick wasn't worth it. She might have taken his life, but she let her anger at him take hers. 

Yesterday I got Betty's book "Telling on Myself" in the mail.  I was really tired and only made it through the second chapter before I fell asleep.

One part I recall is Betty saying she never should have murdered Linda.  I don't remember the details of her explanation, but I do remember that part.  

I'm sure the book will contain liberal amounts of bullshit, but I'm really looking forward to seeing if she has any insight after all of these years.