S06.E15: Stay

[Pearson80]

8 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

For what it's worth, Alfred Enoch graduated from Oxford with a degree in Portuguese and Spanish and speaks Portuguese fluently (I believe his mother is Brazilian), so he's probably nearly fluent in Spanish as well; his weird accent sounded like Spanish with a Portuguese accent to me.

 

Yes that was it, Spanish with a Portuguese accent. Alfred's mom is Afro-Brazilian.. 

The finale was fine.  I am happy that Annalise and Tegan got together, but I was rooting for Eve.  That speech by Annalise was just so damn awesome. My absolute favorite scene is seeing Annalise and her mom with their hair wrapped getting ready for bed like millions of Black women do all over the world. I just get a kick out of that because I have never seen Black women on TV representing their realities as Black women..

Edited May 15, 2020 by Pearson80

[jaigurudeva]

The problem for me wasn't Enoch's Spanish (it sounded fine, but with a Portuguese accent), it was his borderline parody of a Spanish accent when he spoke English. Especially if Christopher was raised bilingual with both English and Spanish by a mother who doesn't have an accent, he wouldn't have such a strong accent himself. I'm not saying it's all on Enoch, it was probably a directoral decision to differentiate Christoph from Wes, but it wasn't good.

Everything dumb about the finale (and whole last arc of the show) has already been covered. The whole baseless court case: dumb. The kids who tipped the first domino in this whole mess by killing Sam (and having the audacity to pin it all on Annalise, who only ever tried to help them) getting away mostly scot-free: ugh. Wes Jr. being a perfect clone of his father: what. Oliver, Michaela, and Nate being happy and successful despite being some of the worst people on the show: why.

If my eyes rolled any harder they'd get tangled in my optic nerves.

Here's how I wish it went down: It's revealed that Annalise tapped Eve for an assist, who's been working in the background with Tegan this whole time gathering evidence (from Narnia or wherever, because that's how this show works anyway) of what really went down. Everything gets exposed (the kids killed Sam if their own volition, Asher killed the assistant DA, Nate killed Xavier and Denver with an assist from Bonnie, that FBI agent killed Asher and coerced the witnesses, etc.). Just lay it all down as like a nice recap for the series. All the actual murderers go to jail, Annalise and Tegan, and Eve and her wife clink their margaritas together on a beach somewhere, pan to the sunset, roll credits.

I'm mostly kidding, and I get that the show is probably making a statement that justice isn't always perfectly served and wrapped up nearly in a bow, but damn so much of this last season and finale was so shoddily slapped together and dissatisfying.

[Gloriosa]

Of course Bonnie died.  Nothing good ever happens to Bonnie.  She had a little dark rain cloud over her head at all times.  She was a total Eeyore.

Now I have to go back and watch the last few minutes.  I completely missed Michaela getting sworn in as a judge.  Oh, and Nate - who I always refused to hate - came through in the end.

 

[juliet73]

I thought the ending was good except I didn't like that nothing happened to Nate regarding him killing DA Miller.  But then again, I hated that nothing happened to him the entire run of the show.  

I was surprised that both Bonnie and Frank died, but I liked that they each had their "moment" of someone distraught over them being shot.  Bonnie with Frank and then Annalise with Bonnie.

Since we were under severe weather, my local news kept cutting in with thunderstorm updates so I have a couple of questions:  What was on the flash drive that Frank got and what was the deal that Nate talked about on the stand?  Was it the $20million or something more?

I agree with others about the bad makeup.  Eve should have been dead or at least looked way older.  Laurel looked like she was dressed up for Halloween.  Connor, Oliver and Annalise all looked realistic.  I'm curious though why Teagan wasn't at the funeral.  

 

[bannana]

5 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

I'm curious though why Teagan wasn't at the funeral.  

I need to watch it again, but I think they show shots of Annalise  and presumably Tegan walking hand in hand over the years until it is just Annalise  walking alone.  So I guess Tegan died before her.

[alexvillage]

I just watched it and I have to say, I didn't hate. Except for Nate, he is the one who actually got away with murder. 

I never cared about Frank so good riddance. Bonnie's death was one of the best death scenes ever on TV. Liza Weil just excelled on that. Perfect timing, perfect acting, everything about it was so realistic and sad. 

So, Annalise outlived Tegan? I wish they had showed us how she died but OTOH the montage of them holding hands was well done.

I think that Connor and Oliver aging was not so off. Laurel though, she looked like Christopher's grandmother. Same for Micaela. The make up people needs to go back to make up school.

Gabriel - silly ending for a silly character. What was he doing in the show again? Din't add anything to the drama. Meh.

[MorbidPet]

So I've gotten grips on myself (slightly). Cried just as much the second time I watched through the episode though. The Virtual Afterparty made me a little happy again but I shed some tears during it as well. What a lovely cast! And I'm not so cross at Peter Nowalk anylonger. Seemed it wasn't planned Bonnie would die at the beginning of the season but they really didn't see her going on after losing Frank (to death). HTGAWM has given us plenty of just heartbreaking and momentous scenes over the years but Frank and Bonnie dying on the courthouse steps & AK's reaction will be no1 for me and stay with me for a long time (I fear). I was thinking Bonnie might take a bullet for AK but that it would go down like that I did not see coming. 

Have to admit I actually clapped when the governor went down, and then Karma hit me like a biatch of course and took two of my favorite characters. I blame myself. 

I've always had mixed feelings for the K5 - they sorta got in the way of the dreamteam AK/Frank/Bonnie - but I was rather pleased to see Connor and Oliver (horrible aging/make-up for Connor tho lmao) at the funeral and since I couldn't get Frank+Bonnie as endgame I'm at least glad I got Coliver. And I guess I don't mind Laurel getting through it alive since Christopher was the one innocent character left on this show. I did have a sneaking suspicion it was Christopher and not Wes in the flashforward but I did not see it play out like that. Michaela can just whatever. 

Viola Davis has just been such a shining star throughout every season. I'm still liking S1, 2 & 5 (S5 only cause it was Bonnie heavy, & Liza just had so many great scenes, only peeve was it was also Nate heavy and again them dang Castillos) the most but every season has had at least some storylines that kept me very entertained and the acting has always been so great by escpecially Viola and Liza. 

I'm thinking Tegan probably helped AK get over the loss of Bonnie (& Frank) but they didn't get longlived either by Tegan's choice or AK's drinking/behavior, or combination of the two. I also think AK couldn't get tied down by anyone but Eve and she'd been taken by the time AK admitted to her feelings for Eve. Either way I chose to think AK lived a rather happy life after all of that. She seemed to see a lot of places with a lot of love(s) and one step in front of the other combined with a little bit/a whole lot of alcohol got her through life. 

Thank you HTGAWM for 6 years on this roller coaster of a show! You're now my no1 Shondaland show, you beat out Private Practice for that spot 😄 

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Aw, hey, nothing wrong with that. I think we've all been there at some point. I'm sad about her, too. 

Thanks. I appreciate it! 

2 hours ago, AryasMum said:

That’s because Liza knocked it out of the park, as usual. I gave up on this show two seasons ago, but read spoilers and tuned in for Bonnie’s death. It was more heartbreaking than I could have guessed. Liza took a character that could rightfully be despised, and gave her a thousand shades of gray, and an unexpected humanity. 

She's just been outstanding. In par with Viola for me. Liza also got major props in the Virtual Afterparty. Liza seemed really moved, which made me cry again. This has not been my day lol 

27 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

The finale was fine.  I am happy that Annalise and Tegan got together, but I was rooting for Eve.  

I think they (AK + Tegan) only got together for a short time actually. There were different hands holding on to AK's as she made that "walk through life". Both male and female hands clasping hers. Peter Nowalk talks a little about it in the Afterparty. So I'm kinda thinking Eve might've gotten another chance, just hoping her spouse & child didn't get caught in-between. Had Tegan been alive I'm pretty sure she would've been at the funeral though so that also made me a little sad she was absent. 

5 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

Since we were under severe weather, my local news kept cutting in with thunderstorm updates so I have a couple of questions:  What was on the flash drive that Frank got and what was the deal that Nate talked about on the stand?  Was it the $20million or something more?

I was under distress but I'm pretty sure the flash drive held the phone call between Hannah and Xavier that implicated the Governor. As for the Nate question dunno, don't care 😉

 

[Fable]

For the most part, I thought this was a good end. 

It made sense to me that Connor was the one to end up in prison, if only because I really believe he felt he needed to atone for his crimes, and always has since the beginning.  It seemed like he ultimately felt he deserved punishment, and in the end, serving time brought him some closure. 

I was sad to see Bonnie die, but I think it was fitting that she went out with Frank.  Even without a love story, these two were soulmates in their devotion to Annalise. 

I didn’t care much for Annalise’s courtroom speech.  It was a little too reminiscent of Tyrion Lannister’s trial speech in Game of Thrones without the humor.  Viola was wonderful, but the writing was weak. 

Overall, I never got sick of this series and enjoyed it throughout, but the writing for the season 6 was a bit disappointing and could have been tighter. 

[Anela]

I caught up over the last two days. I didn't love or hate the finale. I don't like that Connor was the only one to go to jail, but of course he was: he was the only one to really feel guilty, out of the younger lot. Michaela got her career. 

I didn't cry over anyone, but I wasn't that attached to the show. They really go the extra mile when it comes to people with fucked up lives, though. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Anela

[stonehaven]

So, who killed Annalise? I love how that was the question that hung over the season...and now we know....TIME killed her....and I am glad. I am so gonna miss Viola on my TV every week but am glad this show is over as I grew to not give a damn about anyone....and I sorta had a crush on Tom Verica going into this show six years ago...some residual love for him from "American Dreams"...well, Peter Norwalk killed that dead.....

The one question I still want an answer to is what happened to the guy that AK was sometimes dating earlier this season. He was in her life before she pulled her vanishing act and after she came back...he was nowhere to be found without explanation...or did I miss something?

I might do a complete rewatch of this on Netflix this summer...and as I said before, this was a way better finale than How I Met Your Mother....a good finale should leave you glad you invested in a show...this one did....Mother made me feel like a fool....The cast did a Facebook live thingy after the finale. I was going to watch but I had to get up early...Anyone see it?

[tvfanatic13]

I will go back and read but I am bawling my eyes out. I thought they did a great job with the ending. So many thoughts but I will leave these now and edit after

i felt so sad for Micheala that in the end (at least at the court) she had no one. Good on Judge Pratt though.

no Tegan in the aftercourthouse  scenes 😢

loved Prof Christophe and the nod to episode 1

Bye HGAWM. I will miss you. 

[stormy weather]

I thought Eve was given too much screen time on the series finale for being a secondary character, but then I figured with Tegan and Annelise's family gone, I don't know who else could've spoken at her funeral (although this also means in 30+ years she hadn't made any new friends who knew her better than an ex-wife of 40 years prior, and that's sad).

I might be the only one, but it really bothered me that they had Alfred Enoch play Christopher. I understand maybe the writers wanted Alfred to come back for the last episode, or if there was some other reason for this choice that was explained somewhere at some point please tell me, but I found it unnecessary, borderline sci-fi (what son is an exact clone of his father IRL?) and also super confusing! When he first entered the church I thought it was Wes' ghost that Laurel had kept seeing all those years, and since this is Shonda Rhymes (Grey's Anatomy, anyone?), I honestly wouldn't put it past her. 

So Frank, forever scarred by the reveal and by his life in general, is mad at Bonnie and the whole world so he goes and shoots... the Governor? umm, okay.

[possibilities]

In the listing of deaths, don't forget that Bonnie killed Rebecca.

But yes, Lisa did a great job.

[Anela]

Earlier on, when Frank said that Sam had him kill the other guys' sibling, I thought he meant that Lila was Sam's daughter. Then I remembered that she was pregnant. 

[NUguy514]

5 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

The problem for me wasn't Enoch's Spanish (it sounded fine, but with a Portuguese accent), it was his borderline parody of a Spanish accent when he spoke English. Especially if Christopher was raised bilingual with both English and Spanish by a mother who doesn't have an accent, he wouldn't have such a strong accent himself. I'm not saying it's all on Enoch, it was probably a directoral decision to differentiate Christoph from Wes, but it wasn't good.

Yeah, his accented English (which, again, sounded more like Portuguese-accented English, or a weird Spanish/Portuguese amalgam) was ridiculous.  Laurel's English has basically no accent whatsoever, so why does his?  I actually would lay the blame at Enoch's feet; he's a bad actor.

5 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

The kids who tipped the first domino in this whole mess by killing Sam (and having the audacity to pin it all on Annalise, who only ever tried to help them) getting away mostly scot-free: ugh...(the kids killed Sam if their own volition

Except that the "kids" didn't kill Sam; Wes, and Wes alone, killed Sam.  And I'd argue that Sam tipped the first domino by fucking Lila, getting her pregnant, and having Frank kill her, thereby making awful Rebecca the witness who needed doing away with.  Connor and Michaela never killed anyone, nor did Laurel (although it does seem like she ordered Tegan to have her father killed, so...there's that).  They covered up the murder, but they didn't do the murdering themselves.  The way the show wrote everything from Michaela's and Connor's arrests onward made no sense, though.  Absolutely no sense.  I can now see that it was just badly reverse-engineered to manufacture Connor going to jail to find absolution (*the world's biggest eye roll) and Michaela losing every friend she had.  It was so dumb.

Also, did Annalise start drinking again?  It looked like the snippet right after Michaela gets sworn in was Annalise drinking; I actually thought it was Michaela at first because Annalise had talked about overcoming her alcoholism in her closing argument.

[dr pepper]

This ending was a real mess. I wa really hoping the series would end with a prosecuter walking into the classroom, looking at "How to Get Away With Murder" written on the board, and writing "YOU CAN'T!" underneath.

 

[Gloriosa]

Unless I missed it, Frank and Gabriel never knew they were brothers.  I thought Frank would have said something to Gabriel about it in their last scene.

[Chicago Redshirt]

50 minutes ago, Gloriosa said:

Unless I missed it, Frank and Gabriel never knew they were brothers.  I thought Frank would have said something to Gabriel about it in their last scene.

I think part of the reason Frank decided to effectively take himself out was finding out he shared genes with Brand X Wes. 🙂

More seriously, Frank just found out that he was the product of incest. So he didn't have an opportunity before now to tell Gabriel. Frank is presumably wracked with shame and other guilt over it. (I say presumably because I don't think the writing or the actor, whichever and possibly both) were up to the task of conveying the self-loathing that Frank was supposed to feel).

I could see Frank wanting to spare Gabriel from knowing the full extent of Sam's shittiness. Even not being the product of incest oneself, knowing that your father had been incestuous would be pretty vomit inducing.

10 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Yeah, his accented English (which, again, sounded more like Portuguese-accented English, or a weird Spanish/Portuguese amalgam) was ridiculous.  Laurel's English has basically no accent whatsoever, so why does his?  I actually would lay the blame at Enoch's feet; he's a bad actor..

I suppose that it could be Laurel raised him somewhere that English was a second language.

But yeah, when he spoke English, I kept on thinking of "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

11 hours ago, stormy weather said:

I might be the only one, but it really bothered me that they had Alfred Enoch play Christopher. I understand maybe the writers wanted Alfred to come back for the last episode, or if there was some other reason for this choice that was explained somewhere at some point please tell me, but I found it unnecessary, borderline sci-fi (what son is an exact clone of his father IRL?) 

....

So Frank, forever scarred by the reveal and by his life in general, is mad at Bonnie and the whole world so he goes and shoots... the Governor? umm, okay.

I have actually seen some kids who completely favor one parent or the other, so that is not all that far-fetched. 

I don't'get the impression that Frank is mad at Bonnie. In terms of shooting the governor, I can buy, as some posters here suggested, that what Frank was doing was suicide by cop (i.e. putting himself in a position where the cops would have no choice but to kill him).

If he is going to go out that way, might as well do AK one last favor on the way out and take out the person who has been threatening her and the K3 for years. 

14 hours ago, Fable said:

I didn’t care much for Annalise’s courtroom speech.  It was a little too reminiscent of Tyrion Lannister’s trial speech in Game of Thrones without the humor.  Viola was wonderful, but the writing was weak. 

I thought of Tyrion's defense speech in the Aerie too! Maybe AK is a Game of Thrones fan after all! 

But Tyrion is a jokester, and AK isn't. So humor would be inappropriate there.

[nara]

I was fine with Frank and Bonnie dying—it made sense. I liked the return of Alfred Enoch as his son, but I thought his accent was weird and distracting  , given the way his mother speaks, but I guess he grew up outside the US.

Potential spinoff for Michaela—having learned nothing, she murders her way to a judgeship?

Happy ending for Connor and Oliver. It’s sad that of all people Connor is the one that did jail time, but life is not fair.

I called BS on that happy photo of Annelise at her funeral. I knew there was no way that she smiled that much during the timeframe of the show. But I am glad she found happiness.

 

[Guest]

Well, that was equal parts infuriating and shattering. This episode reminded me that through another lens, if you hand wave the whole idea of accessory to murder, HTGAWM is the story of a woman with the most unfortunate friend group in history. Everyone in her circle kills someone and then she gets accused of it.

Fuck this show for giving Gabe and Nate of all people the only satisfying conclusions. Not only were they so irrelevant as to barely warrant any conclusion whatsoever, but adding insult to injury, they got vaguely “happy” endings too.

On 5/15/2020 at 8:17 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Frank, who has literally gotten away with at least 4 murders that we know about from the last 3 chronological years of the show (Lila, Papa Mahoney, Papa Bonnie, Castillo henchman Dominick) and possibly others that I'm forgetting, plus numerous other shady schemes, decides he spontaneously must murder the governor in a crowd in broad daylight? Are we supposed to think that learning he's an incest baby made him go both crazy, suicidal and stupid? I know the powers that be probably wanted him to pay for his crimes, but couldn't there have been a smarter way to make him do it? One that didn't also cost us Bonnie?

THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly! They just needed Frank to go out in a blaze of glory, but even for a tortured guy, it totally came out of nowhere. And the decision to turn Bonnie/Frank into a Romeo and Juliet tragedy was again, very unearned and imo a total slap in the face to Bonnie’s suffering and character arc. But man, they sold the hell out of that goodbye kiss before the shark jumping nonsense. The agonized way he cradled her face brought tears to my eyes. Charlie Weber acted his ass off this episode - during that scene and especially during his “I just wanted you to love me“ scene with Viola, which I felt was his strongest and most memorable performance the entire series. 

The only true WTF moment of the episode for me was Connor/Oliver getting divorced out of absolutely nowhere with 20 minutes left, but Ollie’s such a sniveling, slimy weasel it was hard to feel sympathetic. Even if they reconciled in the flash forward – which I didn’t watch because I was too traumatized by the realization that they were killing off Bonnie - it came totally out of left field and felt like they were trying to torpedo the one couple that the writers were obsessed with keeping together because of the fandom.

Laurel is also insufferable and added nothing to the show’s universe anymore. Another case of the writers shoehorning a character back in because they like the actress. The show would have you believe that her only purpose was to birth Christopher (arguably the show’s biggest plot device), which is kind of an insult to how complex and clever her character was pre-pregnancy/Wes boning.

I refuse to even acknowledge the sheer buffoonery of the flash forward, laughably bad old age make up, and the absurd laziness of casting Alfie to play his own son just to bring him back for the finale (I wanted Actual Wes in hiding, not some cheap ass Wes Reloaded bullshit. This isn't Orphan Black). That hit LOST levels of unrepentant, nonsensical finale fuckery. 

For me, the show ended with the Bonnie/Frank kiss.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Guest

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

The only true WTF moment of the episode for me was Connor/Oliver getting divorced out of absolutely nowhere with 20 minutes left, but Ollie’s such a sniveling, slimy weasel it was hard to feel sympathetic. Even if they reconciled in the flash forward – which I didn’t watch because I was too traumatized by the realization that they were killing off Bonnie - it came totally out of left field and felt like they were trying to torpedo the one couple that the writers were obsessed with keeping together because of the fandom.

In addition to being just totally disgusted by Oliver's utter shittiness at all levels of existence, I was unclear on this: did they actually go through with the divorce?  It seemed to me like maybe they didn't actually divorce?  Like, it was just thrown in there for shits and giggles?  I know Connor gave Oliver his wedding ring when he was hauled off to jail, but it didn't seem to me that they went through with it since their goodbye was so heartfelt.  Jesus, everything in this episode was obfuscated and/or specious, and the more I think about it, the less I like it and angrier I become.

[KaveDweller]

16 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Yeah, his accented English (which, again, sounded more like Portuguese-accented English, or a weird Spanish/Portuguese amalgam) was ridiculous.  Laurel's English has basically no accent whatsoever, so why does his?  I actually would lay the blame at Enoch's feet; he's a bad actor.

Laurel has no accent because she was raised in the US. My interpretation of Christopher having one was that Laurel raised him in some other country. She kind of needed to leave the US to avoid going to jail, right? I have no idea where that was supposed to be though.

But them being from a different country makes it kind of strange that Analise was his mentor.

16 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

In addition to being just totally disgusted by Oliver's utter shittiness at all levels of existence, I was unclear on this: did they actually go through with the divorce?  It seemed to me like maybe they didn't actually divorce?  Like, it was just thrown in there for shits and giggles?  I know Connor gave Oliver his wedding ring when he was hauled off to jail, but it didn't seem to me that they went through with it since their goodbye was so heartfelt.  Jesus, everything in this episode was obfuscated and/or specious, and the more I think about it, the less I like it and angrier I become.

I didn't think they went through with it either. Oliver said he wasn't going to sign the papers, and then they showed them together in the future. It seemed like Oliver stuck to his word, didn't sign them, and waited for Connor to get out. Connor seemed to want to do it to set Oliver free, not because he stopped loving him, so it is believable he'd change his mind down the line.

I think they put it in there to get us worried, just to surprise us in the flash forward that they actually stayed together.

[stormy weather]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I have actually seen some kids who completely favor one parent or the other, so that is not all that far-fetched. 

Yes, that I understand, and it actually happens more often than not, but the same exact person? Nah.

They could've for sure found someone who could pass as Wes and Laurel's son without him having to be the actual Wes, so I think it was a conscious choice on their part to get Alfred back for the last episode, otherwise it really makes zero sense. 

[Bort]

45 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Laurel has no accent because she was raised in the US. My interpretation of Christopher having one was that Laurel raised him in some other country. She kind of needed to leave the US to avoid going to jail, right? I have no idea where that was supposed to be though.

Yes, but since Laurel is the person he’s listened to as he learned to talk, shouldn’t his English be like hers?

[Neurochick]

I loved it.  I didn't expect to, I gave up on the show last season because it was coo coo bananas.  But I watched this anyway and found myself loving this.

Details:  Annalise walking hand in hand with various lovers.  The last two hands were elderly,  walking down the hall of what looked like a hospital.  I loved that we couldn't see who the other person was, who was walking with Analise:  male/female/black/white because it didn't matter.

23 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

My absolute favorite scene is seeing Annalise and her mom with their hair wrapped getting ready for bed like millions of Black women do all over the world. I just get a kick out of that because I have never seen Black women on TV representing their realities as Black women..

I LOVED that.  I grew up never seeing black women going to bed, wearing bonnets.  It's so refreshing today being able to see that on TV.

I liked how Michaela ended up.  She took that deal because she KNEW that she would never make it as anything with a prison sentence over her head, the world is different for black women you know.  Michaela was not at Annalise's funeral but in a way Annalise really did influence her. 

I'm not surprise that Annalise mentored Christopher.  In one of the season finales, the last shot was Annalise in a rocking chair, holding baby Christopher.  If I'm not mistaken, I think Annalise practically delivered Christopher, when Laurel got stuck on the elevator and went into labor.

I thought it was nice that the show's final sequence mirrored the show's beginning sequence, shot by shot. 

[tanyak]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Yes, but since Laurel is the person he’s listened to as he learned to talk, shouldn’t his English be like hers?

Not necessarily.  It seems that he grew up around Spanish speakers (friends, teachers, etc) and spoke Spanish as his first language. At the funeral, he and Laurel spoke to each other in Spanish the entire time. Given that English wasn't his first language, it makes sense to me that he would have an accent.

I do have two questions:

1. Was Javiar getting shanked in prison random, or are we to believe someone set him up?

2. At one point, Laurel tells Teagan that she has lots of property and it looked like she was about to offer Teagan a proposal. Did anything actually come out of that? 

Also, I had to google the Caleb Hapstall death. I watched the entire season wasn't super-interested and couldn't remember how he actually died. 

And yaaaaaassss to Anna Mae and Mama rocking the bonnets! Olivia Pope would kill me sliding into bed with all that hair going everywhere. lol 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by tanyak

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Yes, but since Laurel is the person he’s listened to as he learned to talk, shouldn’t his English be like hers?

Only if she's the only person he ever talked to. But that seems unlikely.

Kids with immigrant parents who grow up in the US don't have the same accent as their parents.

3 hours ago, stormy weather said:

Yes, that I understand, and it actually happens more often than not, but the same exact person? Nah.

They could've for sure found someone who could pass as Wes and Laurel's son without him having to be the actual Wes, so I think it was a conscious choice on their part to get Alfred back for the last episode, otherwise it really makes zero sense. 

Yes, it was definitely to get Alfred back and also to give us that fake out earlier in the season. They wanted us to think Wes was alive and that Analise some how died earlier in the season.

But I have seen people who look scarily identical to pictures of a parent at that age. So it does happen.

[Dancingjaneway]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:59 AM, tennisgurl said:

Pops Never Stop Popping Memorial Building.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 That is my new favorite name for Nate's memorial building.

[alexvillage]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:51 PM, MorbidPet said:

I think they (AK + Tegan) only got together for a short time actually. There were different hands holding on to AK's as she made that "walk through life". Both male and female hands clasping hers. Peter Nowalk talks a little about it in the Afterparty.

If that's the case, I don't think the montage gave us enough information. Maybe the scenes changed too fast  - for me, at least - to see that they were different. 

 

On 5/15/2020 at 8:47 PM, stormy weather said:

I thought Eve was given too much screen time on the series finale for being a secondary character, but then I figured with Tegan and Annelise's family gone, I don't know who else could've spoken at her funeral (although this also means in 30+ years she hadn't made any new friends who knew her better than an ex-wife of 40 years prior, and that's sad).

I had the same thought. We know she dies without a partner, because of the walking holding hands montage that ends wither alone but we also know she was a mentor to Christopher, so she might have had other mentees. It was probably done to link the character with the audience, someone we knew.

16 hours ago, stormy weather said:

Yes, that I understand, and it actually happens more often than not, but the same exact person? Nah.

That's because the writers wanted to have a "ohhh" moment and also to convey something without explanations. Right away one could tell who that was. Actually, one nice moment during the funeral scene was when Connor and Oliver realize who is the man standing next to Laurel. It was really well done.

I think that's the same reason why they gave Christopher an accent, to show that Laurel never really came back to the US, she stayed away while he grew up. It is a very simple recourse used in many shows, series and movies. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 hours ago, tanyak said:

Not necessarily.  It seems that he grew up around Spanish speakers (friends, teachers, etc) and spoke Spanish as his first language. At the funeral, he and Laurel spoke to each other in Spanish the entire time. Given that English wasn't his first language, it makes sense to me that he would have an accent.

I do have two questions:

1. Was Javiar getting shanked in prison random, or are we to believe someone set him up?

2. At one point, Laurel tells Teagan that she has lots of property and it looked like she was about to offer Teagan a proposal. Did anything actually come out of that? 

 

I think we are meant to draw the conclusion that Laurel arranged to have Jorge shanked, possibly through the property bribe that you referenced.

[alexvillage]

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

If that's the case, I don't think the montage gave us enough information. Maybe the scenes changed too fast  - for me, at least - to see that they were different

I am quoting myself because I went back to the scene and it is pretty clear that the hands are different people so I was the one not paying attention.  I also didn't see Nate in the funeral scenes, even if there is a photo of him as an old man in the Media thread

[NUguy514]

20 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Only if she's the only person he ever talked to. But that seems unlikely.

Kids with immigrant parents who grow up in the US don't have the same accent as their parents.

Your second point is certainly true, but as to your first: I know a woman who was born and raised in Puerto Rico who has no accent whatsoever when she speaks English.  Her father is from Oregon and only spoke English to her at home and had her speak English to him; she thinks she picked up his accent from him, and that's the only native English speaker she was really around.  So, it is possible to pick up the accent from one person if that's the person who taught you the language, but one example certainly isn't proof positive of anything.  It's possible Laurel didn't speak English to Christopher at home, so even though Laurel doesn't have an accent when she speaks English, he would if they lived in a Spanish-speaking country and spoke primarily Spanish with each other at home.

I'm thinking about this way, way, wayyyyyy more than the writers did.😑

[MorbidPet]

4 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I am quoting myself because I went back to the scene and it is pretty clear that the hands are different people so I was the one not paying attention.  

Peter Nowalk said in the Virtual Afterparty though that he wanted that hand holding montage to be whatever the viewer wanted it to be. It could be old loved ones, future ones. So just stick to what you want it to be 😉 

I thought this article about the ending was a sweet read Entertainment Weekly I remember seeing a photo of Falahee from the final table read where he looked very sad. It somehow gives me relief to know I'm not the only one that was shocked and moved about Bonnie & Frank dying. And I've seen a lot of people commenting regarding this on different social medias as well. Someday I'll probably get over it, just not yet lol 

And for those who haven't found the Virtual Afterparty yet here it is YouTube 

[rur]

About the accents: If I remember correctly from my ESOL classes, children from bilingual homes often adopt the accent of their peers for social acceptance. If Laurel raised her son in a country where Spanish or Portuguese was the primary language, it would not be uncommon for her child to have that accent. 

But it also let the audience know immediately that it was not Wes, back from the dead. 

[momo]

1 hour ago, rur said:

About the accents: If I remember correctly from my ESOL classes, children from bilingual homes often adopt the accent of their peers for social acceptance. If Laurel raised her son in a country where Spanish or Portuguese was the primary language, it would not be uncommon for her child to have that accent. 

But it also let the audience know immediately that it was not Wes, back from the dead. 

For anyone's interest, here's Emily Blunt on her daughter's accent:  

 

[pennben]

My favorite bat shit crazy show is over.  I watched the last few seasons by binge watching, particularly this last season as I wanted to know Annalise had a good ending before investing in the season.  

This show is freaking fantastic in a binge. The crazy just keeps coming at you & you totally buy in & there is simply no time to even think about plot holes & no need to analyze.  It was just a fun crazy, crazy ride & I'm going to miss that & I’m going to miss  my regular dose of Viola Davis. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by pennben

[tennisgurl]

This is the kind of show I almost wish I could go back and watch as a full binge as my first viewing, its really made for a weekend filled with HTGAWM and its crazy ass plot twists and frantic plotting. 

[Ziggy]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:09 PM, Lady Calypso said:

It depresses me that Michaela has nobody by the end of the series.

 

On 5/14/2020 at 10:30 PM, KaveDweller said:

I know she brought it on herself, but I didn't like seeing Michaela all alone at the end, but in her future shot it looked like there were kids next to her.

That's how I understood it ... that those were her daughters with her as she was sworn in.

[Cranberry]

19 hours ago, pennben said:

This show is freaking fantastic in a binge. The crazy just keeps coming at you & you totally buy in & there is simply no time to even think about plot holes & no need to analyze.

Definitely. I started out watching every week, but by the last couple seasons I was saving up the half-seasons and binge-watching them all at once. It was more enjoyable that way!

[nara]

Does anyone know of a site where all the plot lines are explained? I find that I have forgotten half the characters and how they are related.

[MorbidPet]

1 hour ago, nara said:

Does anyone know of a site where all the plot lines are explained? I find that I have forgotten half the characters and how they are related.

I've used HTGAWM wiki alot just to remember and get all nerdy (or nerdier I should say), this is the 'events' page How to Get Away with Murder Wiki 
On that site you also have all the characters both main, supportive and minor ones 

There's also a fan - Liza mentions him in a video so that's how I found him - Niles who's done a timeline that's very impressive Niles @thekeating5ive 

[nara]

4 hours ago, MorbidPet said:

I've used HTGAWM wiki alot just to remember and get all nerdy (or nerdier I should say), this is the 'events' page How to Get Away with Murder Wiki 
On that site you also have all the characters both main, supportive and minor ones 

There's also a fan - Liza mentions him in a video so that's how I found him - Niles who's done a timeline that's very impressive Niles @thekeating5ive 

Thanks for the resources 

[tennisgurl]

So...like...did we ever actually find out how to get away with murder? 

[NUguy514]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So...like...did we ever actually find out how to get away with murder? 

Apparently, you just scream about your "pops" for a hundred years until everyone goes fucking crazy and stabs themselves through the ears and there's no one left to prosecute you.

[alexvillage]

16 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

Apparently, you just scream about your "pops" for a hundred years until everyone goes fucking crazy and stabs themselves through the ears and there's no one left to prosecute you.

I was going to mention Pops but after this perfect answer I cannot come up with anything better

[Delphi]

Finally got around to watching this.   Not like I've been busy or anything,  just dreading watching this.   Good lord,  these writers did Connor and Michaela so wrong.  I get that at this point they were,  besides Laurel,  the only kids in the ring but damn.  Laurel gets to have a great life with her kid while Connor goes to prison for a bunch of shit he didn't do nor wanted to be involved in.  I hate these writers and will probably actively make sure I don't watch more of their work. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/19/2020 at 9:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

So...like...did we ever actually find out how to get away with murder? 

The criminal justice system is so incompetent in HTGAWM that it could not convict Annalise despite having flipped 5 of her co-conspirators, not bothering to go after her top lieutenants.

There has not, as far as I can remember, been a single conviction of anyone guilty of murder.

So I think it is a three part lesson: 1. Don't commit suicide by cop. 2. Don't stand close to those who commit suicide by cop. 3. Don't get killed by other killers.

 

[wanderingstar]

Quote

So...like...did we ever actually find out how to get away with murder? 

Quote

Apparently, you just scream about your "pops" for a hundred years until everyone goes fucking crazy and stabs themselves through the ears and there's no one left to prosecute you.

This is the correct answer.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Gillian Rosh

[darkestboy]

I really loved this episode. Yes, the old makeup was dodgy as hell but not enough to throw me out of the flash forwards though.

Annalise was always going to get off but I loved her speech to the jury and I loved that she did have a good life, post trial. I do wish that her and Tegan had more time together though.

Nice seeing Eve, Ophelia and Celestine during this episode.

Was obvious that Alfred Enoch would come back to play Christophe instead of Wes secretly being alive. Better too. I did like that he became the new Annalise by the end of this.

Michaela losing her friends was harsh but saw it coming. Laurel - not much we know about her post trial but clearly she maintained some kind of relationship with Annalise. Connor and Oliver, mixed feelings but still glad they stayed together.

Frank and Bonnie, their deaths were sad but had to happen I guess. Didn't care about Nate but glad he did come through for Annalise at the end.

Overall, a fantastic finale, 9/10

[blackwing]

Back in the fall, my DVR for some reason forgot to record the show and I had so much on the DVR that I didn't even notice until I saw a commercial for the winter finale.  For some reason I had assumed the show was going to air at midseason.  And then the ABC site only showed 5 episodes so I had already missed the beginning!  Finally binged the entire season on Netflix, and I have to say, I loved not having to sit through any commercials or waiting an entire week to get the next reveal of the pieces of the puzzle.

I enjoyed the season for the most part.  My favorite characters were Michaela, Connor, Annalise and Tegan.  I was never that invested in Frank or Bonnie but I really grew to like them this season, and I was crushed that they both died.  My least favorite characters of the show throughout the years were Wes, Laurel, Nate and Gabriel.  I was thrilled when Wes died, and I was thrilled when Laurel was mostly gone this season.  I couldn't care less about Nate and he was just a big waste of space this entire season.  And don't even get me started on Gabriel.  Of all the people on this show that I wanted to die, I hoped it would be him.  He should have been killed instead of Asher.  Did the writers not realize how seemingly unpopular this waste of a character was?  Instead, he gets to live, and gets $147,000 (Asher's $60K check from Annalise and the $87K that Frank gave him).  Ugh.

I'm really going to miss this show.  It's been a wild ride.  It was always suspenseful and kept me guessing.  So many great lines and scenes from this series over the years.  I think one of my favorite scenes ever was when Asher and Connor were telling Michaela about how her Southern accent comes out when she is angry, and Asher said something about how he was trying to figure out if it was "Weeziana gator wrassler, or Georgian peach picka".  The accents were so funny.  I also really liked the scene with Tegan asking Annalise to go salsa dancing.  And of course, every time Tegan said "Castillo".

What was up with that creep Robert Hsieh that came on to Annalise?  What was the point of that entire character?  Useless.  Also, are we really supposed to buy that this guy was presumably part-Chinese?  Downright insulting.  I believe the actor is Iranian, that's a long ways off from Chinese.

Part of me really wants to go watch the series again from the beginning, but then I remember how much I truly despised characters like Wes, Laurel, Nate, Gabriel, and Rebecca.  I was so sick of Wes constantly going on and on about Rebecca so I was happy when she died, and then when he died.  But then Wes' death simply served to bring about the blossoming of Laurel, and I found myself despising Laurel more than I ever hated Wes.

On 5/15/2020 at 9:56 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I suppose my biggest disappointment was with Laurel.  There she was riding off safely after the shooting.....then standing up front for AK's eulogy.  UGGGHHH....I despised her in a big way and she was my LEAST favorite character, behind Wes.  A BETTER ending is that Oliver shoots the governor, dies from police gunfire and Laurel is also hit and dies. Then,  a more suitable couple raises little Wes, perhaps, a reformed Bonnie and Frank.  

What do you think the ending implied with Christopher starting the HTGAWM class?  Is he going to conduct it like AK did?  

I must add my tribute to the character of AK.  Viola Davis should be proud. She MADE that character and it was undeniable.  Is it the strongest, bravest tv character of all time?  Hmm......

I would have had Gabriel get killed instead of Asher.  And if not then, I would have had Gabriel kill the governor and Laurel gets caught in the crossfire.

I'm way disappointed that Viola Davis got snubbed for an Emmy nomination... she knocked it out of the park in this finale episode.  I wonder what the future holds in store for her... will she stick with TV or go back to movies full time?  I'd say she is one of the best living actresses today, she has a gravitas to her that is mesmerizing and compelling.

On 5/15/2020 at 3:51 PM, MorbidPet said:

I think they (AK + Tegan) only got together for a short time actually. There were different hands holding on to AK's as she made that "walk through life". Both male and female hands clasping hers. Peter Nowalk talks a little about it in the Afterparty. So I'm kinda thinking Eve might've gotten another chance, just hoping her spouse & child didn't get caught in-between. Had Tegan been alive I'm pretty sure she would've been at the funeral though so that also made me a little sad she was absent. 

Agreed, there were clearly different hands as Annalise walked through life.  I too had thought the scene of Tegan and Annalise dancing meant they were together.  Made me happy.  But then there was the succession of hands and one of the hands was clearly attached to a hairy arm so I am assuming that Annalise went through life with various people.  It is a little sad to think that she died alone.  They implied that Eve was the person that was closest to her but it seemed clear that Eve never got together with Annalise again.

On 5/15/2020 at 8:26 PM, Anela said:

Earlier on, when Frank said that Sam had him kill the other guys' sibling, I thought he meant that Lila was Sam's daughter. Then I remembered that she was pregnant. 

I'm pretty sure that Frank was referring to Sam and Annalise's unborn baby, not Lila's baby.

On 5/16/2020 at 6:26 AM, Gloriosa said:

Unless I missed it, Frank and Gabriel never knew they were brothers.  I thought Frank would have said something to Gabriel about it in their last scene.

Frank did know that he and Gabriel were half-brothers.  He knew that Gabriel was Sam's son, in the scene when Gabriel first appeared, I believe it was Frank who called up someone on the phone (I think Annalise?) and said "her kid's here".  Frank knew all about Sam and Vivian and Gabriel.  But you're right, Gabriel never knew that Frank was Sam's son.  I think the only people that knew that were Annalise, Frank, Bonnie and maybe Tegan.  They didn't tell any of the kids.