S04.E12: King Of Wishful Thinking

[blubld43]

7 hours ago, procrasstinator said:

I totally agree Ash's reactions seem immature and out of proportion.  I also agree whatever he has with Avery is not love.  In my humble opinion you need trust and the ability to weather the storms of life for a relationship to be based on love.  That doesn't seem to be something that Ash is capable of--he seems to be kind of drowning in the stormy weather.

Welcome!

I agree, he seems to be severely emotionally stunted, unable to tolerate life's ups and downs.  Beyond some passing good looks and an interesting accent he has nothing to offer.  And will Avery confront him about straight up lying about Sian's true feelings re Taj moving to the US?  He flat out lied to her,  I hope she calls him out on that too.

[Kareem]

Next episode preview is up and out there but can’t get into the thread.  Nice to see that Lil Ed and the felon have made their failures the women’s fault.  smh  The crazy continues.  

[bravofan27]

I would agree that Avery and Ash do not seem remotely in love. I wonder if he is trying to scam her for real. She's obviously suspicious, but maybe she came more out of curiosity than love. And Ash is getting caught in so much stuff- he's causing fights and tantrums, IMO, to try to distract Avery from everything else. He's banking that Avery will feel sorry for him. In any case, I don't really see much love between the two of them. He seems fake and very dumb, and Avery seems very on to him. However, I'd realize he's just stupid and it's a lost cause. Avery, for whatever reason, can't figure out that the guy is dumb as rocks, and has no memory of what he said before, because it's one of the 15 scripts he's able to remember and recite when he needs an out. Hopefully she gets it soon that there is no hope for him.

 

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Kareem said:

Next episode preview is up and out there but can’t get into the thread.  Nice to see that Lil Ed and the felon have made their failures the women’s fault.  smh  The crazy continues.  

I don't know these women and I feel personally offended by this victim blaming. 

[Mothra]

On 5/13/2020 at 3:09 PM, John M said:

Think about where Erika is from? You think there is a big community of out and proud LGBT people? It's hard even in larger cities because our community is small and our social spots are even smaller if we had all this drama about our exes like straight people do we could never go out.

Hadn't considered this, but once it's pointed out it's obviously true--the circle of "possibles' may be very limited where Erika is living.

What has bugged me from the beginning of their Journey is that at Stephanie's age and with her looks, had I let it be known I was interested in a same-sex love affair, even if I secretly knew I was hetero, it wouldn't have been difficult at all to jump right in with Erika.  Maybe I'm generalizing where I shouldn't, but I think more women than we know have had "lesbian" experiences in their younger days--I know I have--and found them very sexually enjoyable, while at the same time not being truly gay.  I consider myself totally hetero, but ask me at an earlier time in my life if I would've been interested in sex with another woman, I would not have hesitated.  Maybe I would have learned that I wasn't hetero after all!  I just find it weird that Stephanie would have gone to all this trouble to pretend to be bi and then not be interested in sex!  Her illness isn't the only thing wrong with her imo.

[RealReality]

6 hours ago, FrancescaFiore said:

I have another question about Stephanie. She's so afraid that her mother is going to find out about her sexuality that she puts her sexuality on a TV show. How does she think that her mother is going to not find out? And it would be so much more devastating to find out that way instead of directly from your daughter.

She is 100% going to tell her mom that:

a) she just did it for her "career"

b) editing

c) the producers forced her

Edited May 15, 2020 by RealReality

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, blubld43 said:

Welcome!

I agree, he seems to be severely emotionally stunted, unable to tolerate life's ups and downs.  Beyond some passing good looks and an interesting accent he has nothing to offer.  And will Avery confront him about straight up lying about Sian's true feelings re Taj moving to the US?  He flat out lied to her,  I hope she calls him out on that too.

She can, but he will just deflect and gaslight and somehow his lies and misrepresentations will become her fault because she isn't supportive enough and so he HAD to lie. 

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, 2dogmom said:

rose deserves to be a  US citizen just for putting up with this jerk.

so does usman.  

I wish there was a program where we could donate useless Americans to other countries.

 

I was hoping that would be "90 DF the other way", but so far we've only managed to get rid of two useless Americans. 

Tiffany and pol keep showing back up here like bad pennies. 

[cynicat]

11 hours ago, winsomeone said:

There was a typhoon in the Philippines. I do hope Rose and her family are all okay.

Oh my, I hope so too.  Goddamn, when are the frogs and locusts going to show up?  This is insane!

[Pepper Mostly]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:57 PM, Squee Bastard said:

David's coat looks like something a member of Hitler's SS or Gestapo would wear. 

My brother and his best friend got matching leather trench coats in the 80's, because they found them hilarious. they called them their "Gestapo coats".

15 hours ago, Mothra said:

My fave:  When he's about the flounce out of the room and says to (I presume) the camera-person "She doesn't care!  She just doesn't care!"

Passive-aggressive much?

Ash is a drama queen. Utterly gobsmacked that anyone would ever question him. 

Nice to see you, @Mothra! Haven't seen you around for awhile!

15 hours ago, Kangatush said:

I think it went well with Ed's, "I just can't listen to her anymore".

Ed's a "nice guy". You know the type. "Women (only they like to say "females") don't want a nice guy. Bitches only want assholes." He gave himself away with his self pitying "Oh I see. I'm the bad one. I'm a bad person. OK". He expected Rose to say "Oh, no, I'm not saying you're a bad person! You're a nice guy!" I laughed like a hyena when she just said "Yes". He, like Ash, cannot believe that a woman wouldn't be "nice" and accommodating and let him steamroll her. 

[Kyanight]

3 hours ago, cynicat said:

Oh my, I hope so too.  Goddamn, when are the frogs and locusts going to show up?  This is insane!

Well... they aren't locusts, but we have killer hornets! 😄

[BallisticNikki]

9 hours ago, Mothra said:

Hadn't considered this, but once it's pointed out it's obviously true--the circle of "possibles' may be very limited where Erika is living.

What has bugged me from the beginning of their Journey is that at Stephanie's age and with her looks, had I let it be known I was interested in a same-sex love affair, even if I secretly knew I was hetero, it wouldn't have been difficult at all to jump right in with Erika.  Maybe I'm generalizing where I shouldn't, but I think more women than we know have had "lesbian" experiences in their younger days--I know I have--and found them very sexually enjoyable, while at the same time not being truly gay.  I consider myself totally hetero, but ask me at an earlier time in my life if I would've been interested in sex with another woman, I would not have hesitated.  Maybe I would have learned that I wasn't hetero after all!  I just find it weird that Stephanie would have gone to all this trouble to pretend to be bi and then not be interested in sex!  Her illness isn't the only thing wrong with her imo.

I've read this several times and I'm still not sure what you mean.

How do you know what it would take to jump right in with Erika?

I'm not sure how someone can be "totally hetero" but enjoys having sex with people of the same sex.  But my suspicion is Stephanie and Erika's interest in each other was based much more on an emotional bond, especially Stephanie's interest in Erika. They both identify as "different" and said they spent hours commiserating over past failed relationships. I can see how someone like Stephanie, who tries to be sexually liberated, might get that emotional bond confused.

It's just sad to me that they couldn't have tried to save the friendship at least. 

[Mothra]

1 hour ago, BallisticNikki said:

I've read this several times and I'm still not sure what you mean.

How do you know what it would take to jump right in with Erika?

I'm not sure how someone can be "totally hetero" but enjoys having sex with people of the same sex.  But my suspicion is Stephanie and Erika's interest in each other was based much more on an emotional bond, especially Stephanie's interest in Erika. They both identify as "different" and said they spent hours commiserating over past failed relationships. I can see how someone like Stephanie, who tries to be sexually liberated, might get that emotional bond confused.

It's just sad to me that they couldn't have tried to save the friendship at least. 

What I meant was that at Stephanie's age and with her beauty, if I had engaged in a same-sex online romance (I left that important part out), even though I consider myself hetero, I would have engaged in sex with Erica just for the pleasure of it, and I don't understand why Stephanie, especially after having advertised herself as interested, didn't jump into bed with Erica and enjoy the sex.

I mentioned that I and I assume other women went through a period of same-sex sexual activity (and that's where I said I may be over-generalizing) where the sex was very pleasurable indeed, yet we turned out considering ourselves hetero.  I believe that for some women at least it's possible to enjoy sex with other women even if you are not officially a lesbian.  Maybe a slut, but not a lesbian, and if things had worked out differently for me, maybe I would have discovered I am a lesbian after all.

Maybe my age (73) and the mores of my generation have something to do with this.  In my hormone-fueled pre-teens, my friends and I were very interested in sex, but the boys our age were still afraid of girls, so we pleasured each other.  I think this is related to what happens to gay teen boys, whose hormones sometimes have no outlet for expressing or exploring sexual desire.

Anyway, I think there's something really wrong with Stephanie beside her Illness that she would advertise interest in something she wasn't at all interested in and in which I think a lot of women her age might be interested in at least exploring.  I found sex with another female quite delightful and fulfilling, even though my preferred sexual partner is a man.  Maybe you young folk are more uptight than your elders.

[Lily247]

On 5/10/2020 at 11:36 PM, RealReality said:

This.  The girl in the photo was always real. 

They just found her and lured her with money or the promise of American fame.    

Is she really supposed to be 27? She looks.like a very attractive 40 y/o

[monagatuna]

1 hour ago, BallisticNikki said:

I've read this several times and I'm still not sure what you mean.

How do you know what it would take to jump right in with Erika?

I'm not sure how someone can be "totally hetero" but enjoys having sex with people of the same sex.  But my suspicion is Stephanie and Erika's interest in each other was based much more on an emotional bond, especially Stephanie's interest in Erika. They both identify as "different" and said they spent hours commiserating over past failed relationships. I can see how someone like Stephanie, who tries to be sexually liberated, might get that emotional bond confused.

It's just sad to me that they couldn't have tried to save the friendship at least. 

Some people consider themselves "heteroflexible." They identify as straight, want straight relationships, are mostly only physically interested in the opposite sex, but under the right mindset and circumstances, might have fun with a person of their own sex. It's easy to jump right into "well they're obviously bi then," but it's not that simple. If they identify as hetero but experiment, they're still hetero if that's what they say.

I don't know what Stephanie is, if she's bi or just straight or just an attention whore. It really doesn't matter. She was nasty to Erika and hurt her. Erika is no angel, but she is miles away from Stephanie's level of assholeishness.

[ALittleShelfish]

11 hours ago, RealReality said:

I was hoping that would be "90 DF the other way", but so far we've only managed to get rid of two useless Americans. 

Tiffany and pol keep showing back up here like bad pennies. 

And as hard as Nicole tries, Azan won't pull the trigger to keep her over there forever.  

I would really like to see a couple from "The Other Way" make it and stay over there and we could follow the American's adjustment to living a new lifestyle.  I had hopes for this series.  I had hopes for the "Before the 90" series, too and look where it got us. 

[RealReality]

44 minutes ago, Lily247 said:

Is she really supposed to be 27? She looks.like a very attractive 40 y/o

Looks like photofilters and light rings have gone international!

[Baltimore Betty]

8 minutes ago, ALittleShelfish said:

And as hard as Nicole tries, Azan won't pull the trigger to keep her over there forever.  

At some point won't Nicole over stay her visa and will be forced to leave Morocco and possibly not be allowed back in to that country?  

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

What I meant was that at Stephanie's age and with her beauty, if I had engaged in a same-sex online romance (I left that important part out), even though I consider myself hetero, I would have engaged in sex with Erica just for the pleasure of it, and I don't understand why Stephanie, especially after having advertised herself as interested, didn't jump into bed with Erica and enjoy the sex.

I mentioned that I and I assume other women went through a period of same-sex sexual activity (and that's where I said I may be over-generalizing) where the sex was very pleasurable indeed, yet we turned out considering ourselves hetero.  I believe that for some women at least it's possible to enjoy sex with other women even if you are not officially a lesbian.  Maybe a slut, but not a lesbian, and if things had worked out differently for me, maybe I would have discovered I am a lesbian after all.

Maybe my age (73) and the mores of my generation have something to do with this.  In my hormone-fueled pre-teens, my friends and I were very interested in sex, but the boys our age were still afraid of girls, so we pleasured each other.  I think this is related to what happens to gay teen boys, whose hormones sometimes have no outlet for expressing or exploring sexual desire.

Anyway, I think there's something really wrong with Stephanie beside her Illness that she would advertise interest in something she wasn't at all interested in and in which I think a lot of women her age might be interested in at least exploring.  I found sex with another female quite delightful and fulfilling, even though my preferred sexual partner is a man.  Maybe you young folk are more uptight than your elders.

Stephanie kinda touched on the idea that she grew up in a repressive and super conservative household.  

It's really one of the few things that feels authentic about her story, because I grew up in a similar environment of repression and judgement. 

So, I could see why Stephanie is so judgmental of others.  It's what she is surrounded by.

The difference is that I left home and got exposed to other people and other ideas.  People who weren't so angrily judgmental over things that literally had no bearing on their life. 

I cannot imagine Stephanie has a lot of people in her life because she seems awful and exhausting.  She has like one friend and her mother.  

Edited May 15, 2020 by RealReality

[procrasstinator]

18 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

Maybe but he accidentally admitted he still considers himself single and refuses to tell his clients he's n a relationship. Don't the guys who are head-over-heels usually go very public w/ their relationships? I'm thinking his freak-outs have more to do w/ him than her.

 

I agree Ash's freak outs have to do with his own need for reassurance, control, his insecurity?  Something inside himself for sure and not anything about Avery.  At this stage of their relationship I would think both parties would be still evaluating is this the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.  If someone breaks up with you three times over what you consider to be very minor things and this is very painful for you then perhaps you can talk things out or maybe it's time to find someone else.  What I think is not a healthy dynamic is changing your own behavior or not voicing your needs, thoughts, and opinions because you're afraid of how the other person will react.  That comes from Ash not from Avery.  He needs to be strong enough in himself to be able to handle it if someone breaks up with him rather than refusing to give direct answers to questions for fear of what Avery might do.

[procrasstinator]

16 hours ago, blubld43 said:

  And will Avery confront him about straight up lying about Sian's true feelings re Taj moving to the US?  He flat out lied to her,  I hope she calls him out on that too.

I'm waiting to see this scene as well.  How does Ash expect things to magically work out when he seems to be telling Avery what he thinks she wants to hear?  Doesn't seem to be one for thinking things out in a very thorough way.

[lilysmom]

18 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

Maybe but he accidentally admitted he still considers himself single and refuses to tell his clients he's n a relationship.

Quote

Don't the guys who are head-over-heels usually go very public w/ their relationships?

 I'm thinking his freak-outs have more to do w/ him than her. But IDK. And I can't believe Avery told producers she considers him her soulmate or whatever at the beginning of the season.

Welcome!

 

Some of them even include an "in memorial-like" picture of their love at the end of their music video at a launch party for their love video!

[procrasstinator]

4 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Ed's a "nice guy". You know the type. "Women (only they like to say "females") don't want a nice guy. Bitches only want assholes." He gave himself away with his self pitying "Oh I see. I'm the bad one. I'm a bad person. OK". He expected Rose to say "Oh, no, I'm not saying you're a bad person! You're a nice guy!" I laughed like a hyena when she just said "Yes". He, like Ash, cannot believe that a woman wouldn't be "nice" and accommodating and let him steamroll her. 

12 hours ago, RealReality said:

 

I found it a little confrontational of Ed to say that to Rose.  When she was pointing out all the bad things he did, not saying anything about him as a person just listing his behavior, instead of addressing those issues Ed said oh you're insulting my character you're calling me a bad person.  Trying to flip things around and make Rose look like the bad person for insulting HIM.  And then of course she did, and I have to admit I gave a hearty cheer.  I like Rose.  She has a good sense of humor and she was kind and comforting to Ed when he was freaking out about staying in her room in the rain.  She said something like don't worry I'm here with you.  Nice until she just couldn't take it any more.  She was a lot more patient in that situation than I would have been.

[OnceSane]

16 hours ago, Kareem said:

Next episode preview is up and out there but can’t get into the thread.  Nice to see that Lil Ed and the felon have made their failures the women’s fault.  smh  The crazy continues.  

It's open now.

[procrasstinator]

45 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Stephanie kinda touched on the idea that she grew up in a repressive and super conservative household.  

It's really one of the few things that feels authentic about her story, because I grew up in a similar environment of repression and judgement. 

So, I could see why Stephanie is so judgmental of others.  It's what she is surrounded by.

The difference is that I left home and got exposed to other people and other ideas.  People who weren't so angrily judgmental over things that literally had no bearing on their life. 

 

I grew up in an environment like that too.  It really does affect a person.  Stephanie is fairly young still hopefully it's something she'll let go of a little more as time goes by.  I'm guessing her early environment still might have a stronger hold on her because of her illness.  It's hard to separate from your mother if you're still depending on her help health wise.

[AZChristian]

8 minutes ago, procrasstinator said:

I'm guessing her early environment still might have a stronger hold on her because of her illness.  It's hard to separate from your mother if you're still depending on her help health wise.

Wait!  Stephanie has an illness?  Has she mentioned it on the show?

😉

[KateHearts]

I think while, as many have said, Avery seems level-headed and is asking relevant questions and drilling into what Ash is about, she is still not willing to fully confront some glaringly concerning issues about him.  For example, when Sian stated that she and Ash had divorced a year ago, Avery very cautiously said, "ohhhh?" and rather than saying, "He told me it was ten years ago!" (HUGE difference) she sort of skirted around it, saying, "I was under the impression that maybe it was more like a lot longer...?"  While I get that she doesn't want to sound like she's calling Sian a liar, it's known between the both of them that Avery is still in the "getting to know you" phase and is looking for information. And then she uses phrases like "Ash sugarcoats everything." No, Avery. HE LIES.  Yet she still refers to him as "the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with." How could she be thinking that when he has lied numerous times, has tantrums when she tries to discuss important issues, and acts like he's tweaking when she asks him a simple question?

I re-watched last night and was gobsmacked my Goeffrey's total manipulation in the cab and at the airport. "THIS IS IT! I'M NOT COMING BACK!" And he needed to stop with the sad little "I'm heartbroken; she doesn't know how much she HURT me" comments.  She is trying to say let's take it more gradually and he is not having it.  Then his pouty "are you gonna get out of the cab and say goodbye?" followed by "want to talk?"  Then he insists on a hug, all the while expecting she is going to say yes, let's get married. If I were her, I'd accept that all of his behaviors added up to a big old NO and said, "Oh, well; anyone who offers an ultimatum and pouts and freezes me out when I want to take it slow is a big old NOPE for me. Have a nice life."  And then she pulls the old run back into the airport deal only to have him think, here's my chance to have the upper hand.  Mistake, Varya. He is absolutely disgusting.

Enough has been said about Ed and Rose and he totally burned his bridges in trying to be a sympathetic character after episode 2. And his comments that he is going to "let her calm down" still showed that he is delusional enough to think she will reconsider and come running back into his arms (à la Varya) because he is here to save her and provide her with a queen's lifestyle.  He is also absolutely disgusting and someone needs to tell him that his blindingly bright hot-pink shirt is not attracting attention in a way that is positive.

Edited May 15, 2020 by KateHearts

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, procrasstinator said:

I grew up in an environment like that too.  It really does affect a person.  Stephanie is fairly young still hopefully it's something she'll let go of a little more as time goes by.  I'm guessing her early environment still might have a stronger hold on her because of her illness.  It's hard to separate from your mother if you're still depending on her help health wise.

I agree.  It makes you ready to judge people harshly and by the same standards.  Which you pass down to your own kids I suppose. 

It's all kinda miserable and time consuming.  

I love my parents to death......I'm glad I don't live with them (even though they have both gotten A LOT better).  

I think it's part of the reason I would have liked a different same sex couple who was a little more authentic.  For a lot of people this is going to be part of their very limited exposure to same sex relationships.  It would have been nicer to see a real couple with issues that were a little more evolved.  

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Wait!  Stephanie has an illness?  Has she mentioned it on the show?

😉

I don't know why she keeps trying to be brave and hide it from us.  #realamericanherostephanie

[BallisticNikki]

3 hours ago, Mothra said:

What I meant was that at Stephanie's age and with her beauty, if I had engaged in a same-sex online romance (I left that important part out), even though I consider myself hetero, I would have engaged in sex with Erica just for the pleasure of it, and I don't understand why Stephanie, especially after having advertised herself as interested, didn't jump into bed with Erica and enjoy the sex.

I mentioned that I and I assume other women went through a period of same-sex sexual activity (and that's where I said I may be over-generalizing) where the sex was very pleasurable indeed, yet we turned out considering ourselves hetero.  I believe that for some women at least it's possible to enjoy sex with other women even if you are not officially a lesbian.  Maybe a slut, but not a lesbian, and if things had worked out differently for me, maybe I would have discovered I am a lesbian after all.

Maybe my age (73) and the mores of my generation have something to do with this.  In my hormone-fueled pre-teens, my friends and I were very interested in sex, but the boys our age were still afraid of girls, so we pleasured each other.  I think this is related to what happens to gay teen boys, whose hormones sometimes have no outlet for expressing or exploring sexual desire.

Anyway, I think there's something really wrong with Stephanie beside her Illness that she would advertise interest in something she wasn't at all interested in and in which I think a lot of women her age might be interested in at least exploring.  I found sex with another female quite delightful and fulfilling, even though my preferred sexual partner is a man.  Maybe you young folk are more uptight than your elders.

Oh wow. Ok thank you for explaining. I see what you're saying now. I didn't realize girl-on-girl experimentation was so prevalent 60ish years ago! Heck. I was oblivious to it 35ish years ago when I was a preteen! LOL

I guess, just for me personally, I'd think "heteroflexible" (as suggested below) would be a more apt term than "totally heterosexual." But we are all free to ID however we want. 

2 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Some people consider themselves "heteroflexible." They identify as straight, want straight relationships, are mostly only physically interested in the opposite sex, but under the right mindset and circumstances, might have fun with a person of their own sex. It's easy to jump right into "well they're obviously bi then," but it's not that simple. If they identify as hetero but experiment, they're still hetero if that's what they say.

 

1 hour ago, procrasstinator said:

I agree Ash's freak outs have to do with his own need for reassurance, control, his insecurity?  Something inside himself for sure and not anything about Avery.  At this stage of their relationship I would think both parties would be still evaluating is this the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.  If someone breaks up with you three times over what you consider to be very minor things and this is very painful for you then perhaps you can talk things out or maybe it's time to find someone else.  What I think is not a healthy dynamic is changing your own behavior or not voicing your needs, thoughts, and opinions because you're afraid of how the other person will react.  That comes from Ash not from Avery.  He needs to be strong enough in himself to be able to handle it if someone breaks up with him rather than refusing to give direct answers to questions for fear of what Avery might do.

Right he seems like a such a "people pleaser" type. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that before the relationship coach gig, he sold cars.

[blubld43]

20 minutes ago, RealReality said:

 think it's part of the reason I would have liked a different same sex couple who was a little more authentic.  For a lot of people this is going to be part of their very limited exposure to same sex relationships.  It would have been nicer to see a real couple with issues that were a little more evolved.  

I don't know why she keeps trying to be brave and hide it from us.  #realamericanherostephanie

I believe on the new season of The Other Way, there is a gay male couple.  I hope the same, I'm sure there are various obstacles to gay couples globally that we don't see with the usual assortment of heterosexual couples.

Probably not in Australia where Erika lives, but other places for sure.

Edited May 15, 2020 by blubld43

[1011101010001]

52 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I think it's part of the reason I would have liked a different same sex couple who was a little more authentic.  For a lot of people this is going to be part of their very limited exposure to same sex relationships.  It would have been nicer to see a real couple with issues that were a little more evolved.

There will be a male couple on The Other Way.  Hopefully not as maladjusted as Stephanie and Erika.  There is a huge age difference though (old American and young Mexican) so maybe that is the source of the drama.  After Fernanda this may be only the second Mexican partner.  I wonder if K1s are more difficult to get for fiancés from there because of the politics.

There also is a thing called situational homosexuality where otherwise straight people are in situations such as prison or the military where it is the only option so the participant figures it is better than nothing.

 

edit the second paragraph was not directed toward your comment but rather about straight dabbling.  They were merged without my intent to do so.

Edited May 15, 2020 by MrBuhBye

[RealReality]

15 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

There will be a male couple on The Other Way.  Hopefully not as maladjusted as Stephanie and Erika.  There is a huge age difference though (old American and young Mexican) so maybe that is the source of the drama.  After Fernanda this may be only the second Mexican partner.  I wonder if K1s are more difficult to get for fiancés from there because of the politics.

There also is a thing called situational homosexuality where otherwise straight people are in situations such as prison or the military where it is the only option so the participant figures it is better than nothing.

 

edit the second paragraph was not direct toward you comment but rather about straight dabbling

See, I think that'll have the potential to be interesting.  The power deferential alone will be interesting.  I wonder how the two met?  

Sexuality is so evolved now.  It makes me feel very, very small and dumb that I only know like four or five different ones. 

It's like growing up, I only really knew about chocolate and vanilla ice cream. I had limited experience with strawberry.  Now it's like I'm finding out about all these other fantastic flavors, and even more exciting iced treats.....Frozen Custard!  Banana milk shakes! Passionfruit sorbet!  It's all makes life more colorful and delicious!

Edited May 15, 2020 by RealReality

[1011101010001]

8 minutes ago, RealReality said:

See, I think that'll have the potential to be interesting.  The power deferential alone will be interesting.  I wonder how the two met?

I think they both are fathers and met on a site for gay dads (as opposed to gay daddies lol).

[humbleopinion]

2 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

 I'm going to take a wild guess and say that before the relationship coach gig, he sold cars.

 Ashhole history of salesmanship began by selling....

Sham-Wows  at the local Mail Bun Costco

Gym memberships at the All Ladies Gym

Omaha Steaks and Lamb door to door

 

 

[Kangatush]

2 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

Oh wow. Ok thank you for explaining. I see what you're saying now. I didn't realize girl-on-girl experimentation was so prevalent 60ish years ago! Heck. I was oblivious to it 35ish years ago when I was a preteen! LOL

I guess, just for me personally, I'd think "heteroflexible" (as suggested below) would be a more apt term than "totally heterosexual." But we are all free to ID however we want. 

For some reason, it has historically always been easier for two ladies to share some loving.  Either because dudes think it's hot, or the idea of two spinsters keeping each other company was so much more acceptable than a single woman, or two guys. 

I will never call myself heteroflexible, simply because I think that's dumb.  I believe Kinsey was correct, and sexuality is on a sliding scale with very few people either 100% hetero or 100% homo.  And you can slide up or down at any point in your life.  

I don't think I've ever said that Steph definitely isn't bi, but she definitely isn't sexually attracted to Erika.  

[Little]

Does Ash have any real credentials for being a “Relationship Coach”? I’m not being snarky, well, maybe a little, I just wonder if there is schooling or anything. He just doesn’t seem like he knows what he’s talking about, at all. 

[mamadrama]

7 hours ago, Kangatush said:

For some reason, it has historically always been easier for two ladies to share some loving.  Either because dudes think it's hot, or the idea of two spinsters keeping each other company was so much more acceptable than a single woman, or two guys. 

I will never call myself heteroflexible, simply because I think that's dumb.  I believe Kinsey was correct, and sexuality is on a sliding scale with very few people either 100% hetero or 100% homo.  And you can slide up or down at any point in your life.  

I don't think I've ever said that Steph definitely isn't bi, but she definitely isn't sexually attracted to Erika.  

(Just wanted to jump in here to recommend the newish French film PORTRAIT OF A LADY ON FIRE. It's amazing.)

And now back to our regularly scheduled snarking...

[blubld43]

11 hours ago, Little said:

Does Ash have any real credentials for being a “Relationship Coach”? I’m not being snarky, well, maybe a little, I just wonder if there is schooling or anything. He just doesn’t seem like he knows what he’s talking about, at all. 

I think I wondered aloud this same thing, at the beginning of the season.  I'd be willing to bet the answer's no, or he has some online certification that's basically worthless.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, blubld43 said:

I think I wondered aloud this same thing, at the beginning of the season.  I'd be willing to bet the answer's no, or he has some online certification that's basically worthless.

He's as qualified to be a relationship coach as Janelle Brown ("Sisterwives") is to be a health coach.  Their "certifications" are probably from the same fake online certification site.

Which means neither one of them has a clue as to what they're spouting.

[Scarlett45]

@Mothra I think that it’s likely Stephanie is a 1 or a 2 on the Kinsey scale (rather than closer to a 3) AND also just isn’t into Erica. (We are in agreement)

 

And some people are more sexual than others- meaning some people can find sex quite delightful and fulfilling even if the person isn’t their preferred gender (like you in your youth), while others have no interest in partnered sex unless they are 100% attracted to the person and would rather masturbate than have sex with someone they are “lukewarm” about. 
 

Stephanie said she’s bisexual so I’m taking her at her word, I can believe she’s telling the truth and also isn’t into Erica AT ALL, which is a huge problem meeting people online. Just because someone is photogenic and a good conversationalist doesn’t mean you’ll want to fuck them in real life. 
 

I have no doubt Erica can meet someone nice and forget about Stephanie in no time. Though as mentioned up thread she might not live in an area with a lot of LGBT people. But a few hours drive is better than half a world away!

[iwasish]

On 5/13/2020 at 1:44 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

The Columbine coat, (yikes) and don't forget the mandatory Victoria's Secret bag full of frilly things that David will never see that lingerie on Lana, ever.  I think it is odd that men buy that stuff for women they have never seen in person, those men forget that those women need a little time to get know the guy and the guy thinks they will meet and then run off to a hotel room.  That fantasy has never really worked out for any of these guys.

I’m pretty sure these ladies gave plenty of signs they were “DTF” as the Jersey Shore guys so eloquently put it. Even Varya was going to “spend the night” with Geoffrey, till her friends said she was nuts. 

[ALittleShelfish]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I have no doubt Erica can meet someone nice and forget about Stephanie in no time. Though as mentioned up thread she might not live in an area with a lot of LGBT people. But a few hours drive is better than half a world away!

LOUDER 👏 FOR 👏 THE 👏 PEOPLE 👏 IN THE BACK STRANDED 👏 IN 👏 MOROCCO.

And conversely, if Steph just wanted to experiment and was uncomfortable (ha!) in her own area - because what if she hated it and realized it wasn't at all what she wanted! and then oh god she runs into that person at the grocery store! - then sure, going half a world away is a great idea.  

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CAMERA CREW FOLLOWING YOU.   

But i know, i know, that wasn't why she did it.  

I wish the editors would allow for some of the talking heads to include some real introspection on the part of the bigger doofuses on this show.  Like, give me the uncomfortable silences when Geoffrey is asked "Do you know the difference btwn 'No' and 'Not yet'? And why didn't you mention your domestic abuse charges?"  When David is asked what he and Lana really have in common and can talk about for hours at a time.  When Ed is asked "Why are you such a dick?"

[SG11]

On 5/11/2020 at 12:29 PM, Pepper Mostly said:

"Lana" may have been a model once, but she sure as hell is not a model now. She's pushing 40 with a short stick, for one thing. She might be a cam girl, with a generous amount of Vaseline smeared on the lens, maybe. But no way is anyone paying that broke down slag to model. 

Why am I not surprised that some people really need to act like this Lana is some sort of unattractive woman? Funny.

On 5/16/2020 at 9:12 AM, AZChristian said:

He's as qualified to be a relationship coach as Janelle Brown ("Sisterwives") is to be a health coach.  Their "certifications" are probably from the same fake online certification site.

Which means neither one of them has a clue as to what they're spouting.

Look it up, he has a fake “certification’’ from a fake “school.”

[blubld43]

On 5/19/2020 at 5:51 PM, SG11 said:

Why am I not surprised that some people really need to act like this Lana is some sort of unattractive woman? Funny.

Look it up, he has a fake “certification’’ from a fake “school.”

Because that's our opinion?  I see a woman who has clearly used doctored/old pictures, and I don't find her attractive at all.

[Kyanight]

1 hour ago, blubld43 said:

On 5/19/2020 at 4:51 PM, SG11 said:

Why am I not surprised that some people really need to act like this Lana is some sort of unattractive woman? Funny.

Look it up, he has a fake “certification’’ from a fake “school.”

Because that's our opinion?  I see a woman who has clearly used doctored/old pictures, and I don't find her attractive at all.

Yep!  Everyone has different ideas of "beauty".

[Mothra]

I think the problem with Lana's face (and the reason she didn't like her un-filtered face shown on tv) is that she has a bad chin.  This is NOT political, but it's the kind of chin Chelsea Clinton had, one that spoiled the face of an otherwise very attractive woman.  I tried to find a photo of Chelsea's bad chin and learned that she may have had chin-augmentation surgery, which has solved her problem.  Lana as we see her in "real life" has a very weak, receding chin, and Lana in her photos does not.  I think this makes a big difference in her looks.

This *might* be Chelsea after *possible* surgery, but I think it shows what I'm talking about, even if it is post-surgery:

[Ijustwantsomechips]

On 5/22/2020 at 1:29 PM, Mothra said:

I think the problem with Lana's face (and the reason she didn't like her un-filtered face shown on tv) is that she has a bad chin.  This is NOT political, but it's the kind of chin Chelsea Clinton had, one that spoiled the face of an otherwise very attractive woman.  I tried to find a photo of Chelsea's bad chin and learned that she may have had chin-augmentation surgery, which has solved her problem.  Lana as we see her in "real life" has a very weak, receding chin, and Lana in her photos does not.  I think this makes a big difference in her looks.

This *might* be Chelsea after *possible* surgery, but I think it shows what I'm talking about, even if it is post-surgery:

We call that the weasel chin in my house.  It’s only funny on totally reprehensible people and my dog when he comes out of his kennel though. 

[deirdra]

On 5/22/2020 at 12:29 PM, Mothra said:

This *might* be Chelsea after *possible* surgery, but I think it shows what I'm talking about, even if it is post-surgery:

Chelsea had braces, probably with rubberbands to pull the lower jaw forward. Lana still has an overbite.  I had the opposite problem, needing the lower jaw pulled backward.

[DutchbutnoJesse]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:02 AM, RealReality said:

I was hoping that would be "90 DF the other way", but so far we've only managed to get rid of two useless Americans. 

Tiffany and pol keep showing back up here like bad pennies. 

The Netherlands 1 - USA 0, haha. We got rid of Jesse! 😁😁

[FrancescaFiore]

What is going on with all the Williamses???