S03.E05: Are You From Pinner?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Villanelle returns home to Mother Russia to try to find her family. Perhaps a new connection to her roots will give her back what has been missing in her life.

Promo:

Sneak peek:

Original air date: 5/10/20

Edited May 11, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TimWil]

I’m definitely going to have to rewatch this episode using subtitles.

[ams1001]

I broke down and turned on the closed captions just after the conversation about Elton John. They weren't particularly helpful. "Speaking Russian indistinctly." Great, thanks.

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Wow!   Oxsana's family was so creepy.    I loathed her mother. The mother getting offed didn't bother me a bit.    I like that the little boy will get to see Elton John's farewell tour, and the other brother in the barn did seem to be the best of the lot.   

I suspect that the mother knew about the orphanage fire, because the mother lit the fire.    I think she also dumped Villanelle at the orphanage because the new husband wanted the boy, but the mother didn't want her daughter around getting attention that the mother wanted.      I hated the mother, and think she was the one that wanted V. gone, not necessarily the new husband (the current, and third husband).  

I really thought the woman who won the cooking contest for the 20th time was going to be offed too.     I think V. would just have left if the little boy wouldn't have said what the mother said to him after he lost.     That was horribly cruel by the mother, and it showed V.  that the mother hadn't changed a bit. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[peridot]

That took a really dark turn!  I was expecting for Villanelle's mother to be truly remorseful about abandoning her as a child.  Knowing that the "heart-breaking" reunion was all manufactured is very creepy.

I knew cracks would come after what her little brother told her, but I was not expecting a mass murder.  The ending scene on the train was the most emotion I've ever seen from Villanelle. 

[Ramona]

I'm sorry for those who are not enjoying this season, but I am LOVING this season more than the 2nd season.  This might not make sense, but I wish they would have swapped this season for the second season.  Not sure how that would have worked, but I think the cat and mouse between Eve and Villainelle is intriguing.  However, having said that, I am sad about Niko and Kenny, but I have feared for their safety since the first season. To emphasize how much I am enjoying this season(not that anyone cares) but I didn't like Jodi Comer at first, now I think she is freaking brilliant.  This season gives Villianelle more layers, which I think was missing in the first season.  Anyway, can't believe there are only three eps left.  

[slf]

What didn't work for me: the 'kooky' writing for the family. Everyone had to be weird for some reason?

What did work for me: not creating a real origin for Villanelle's psychopathy. Her mother was off, you could see it almost right from the start, and she was clearly a bully to her children. But none of her other kids were like Villanelle and plenty of other people endure far, far worse and aren't killers. So maybe Villanelle was made that way by her mother, or maybe she was born like her mother and it's genetic, or maybe she already had something in her and her mother's meanness just sharpened it, or maybe Villanelle was just always spiralling and it would have happened no matter what.

[MDKNIGHT]

Who thinks her dad isn't dead?

I'm beginning to get a little uncomfortable with Villanelle killing people who in our real lives would just engender a screaming match and slamming of doors but I still enjoy the show.

I wonder how realistic the Russian fair was.  I can envision something that was that tacky and both funny and sad at the same time.  But I don't know if that is because that is what American fiction says rural Russia is like.  Anybody have first hand knowledge?  

I thought they announced a special reg Killing Eve at 10 but they are re-running Silence of the Lambs.  Anybody know anything about that.

[ams1001]

If nothing else, I can at least relate to V's reaction to learning her stepbrother and his girlfriend believe in lizard people and that the moon landing was a hoax...

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, TimWil said:

I’m definitely going to have to rewatch this episode using subtitles.

Subtitles won't help unless they add Russian translations.  The only word I picked up in Russia was (trans.) "Thank you" and it didn't make it to the untranslations.

55 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

  I like that the little boy will get to see Elton John's farewell tour,

Saw that coming from the other side of the Ural Mountains.  When the money amount was mentioned, it gave us all something to look forward to.

We (blush) watch it slight tape delay and they have started doing a dirty on us.  Embedded in the middle of the streaming commercials are brief omitted scenes.  The one of Ocsana and her (?) half brother eating  at the fair seems to be a feel good moment.

There existed at least one maybe two more omitted snipets. 

I could have watched this as a meatier two hour episode.  

 

 

 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

i was kind of sure she wouldn't kill the little brother but I was still scared.  I was really scared for Pyotr. Surprised that she let them survive.

Jodie Comer is one of the best actors I have ever experienced in my life.  She is so electrifying. Every scene and expression is incredible.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

  I like that the little boy will get to see Elton John's farewell tour, and the other brother in the barn did seem to be the best of the lot.   

Pyotr Is her full brother so I'm glad she spared him.  Even though I'm sure she has major jealousy towards him As her mother did not leave him.

12 hours ago, slf said:

What didn't work for me: the 'kooky' writing for the family. Everyone had to be weird for some reason?

I didn't think they were quote "weird".  For example I have a friend from Russia and she seems very "weird" To us but that's just how she is.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[rur]

30 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Embedded in the middle of the streaming commercials are brief omitted scenes. 

This practice is starting to irritate me. Since they always have time to show them as omitted scenes while not exceeding the one-hour broadcast window, then why aren't they just incorporated into the show?  Is it so we won't notice how many commercials there actually are? 

[TimWil]

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

Subtitles won't help unless they add Russian translations.  The only word I picked up in Russia was (trans.) "Thank you" and it didn't make it to the untranslations.

Hah, I actually meant I’ll need to watch it with closed captions because the accents were so thick I couldn’t make out some of the dialogue! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arkay]

1 hour ago, slf said:

16 minutes ago, MDKNIGHT said:

 

 

16 minutes ago, MDKNIGHT said:

Mom's current husband and the stepbrother as well as the body of already dead mom were all blown up right?  Did stepbros obnoxious girlfriend live there too?

 I liked that Russians can be as dumb as the alt Right here regarding lizard people

What did work for me: not creating a real origin for Villanelle's psychopathy. Her mother was off, you could see it almost right from the start, and she was clearly a bully to her children. But none of her other kids were like Villanelle and plenty of other people endure far, far worse and aren't killers. So maybe Villanelle was made that way by her mother, or maybe she was born like her mother and it's genetic, or maybe she already had something in her and her mother's meanness just sharpened it, or maybe Villanelle was just always spiralling and it would have happened no matter what.

It can't be just what the mother did that shaped Villanelle. As you say, her other children were not like Oksana, but also they weren't left behind in a orphanage. However, if  just being abandoned there were enough to turn her into a psychopath, then everyone in an orphanage would grow up to be like her. It's a combination of all the things you've mentioned. Sometimes, there's no explanation. People can turn out like Villanelle even if they grow up in a loving family. 

It seems like the stepbrother's girlfriend did live there. You could see them in bed together when Villanelle closed the door to their room, just before the alarm rang in her little brother's room.  

I joked last week that I wondered how many of the family she would kill. So I guess it's four. I'm relieved she spared her full brother and her little half-brother. But I guess that means Pyotor has to raise the little one now, and their house is gone. I think that Elton John money is going to have to go to rebuild  their lives. 

I know the mother was killed before the fire. Did V. stab her with the knife? I presume so, but I didn't see bloodstains, just a pattern on the carpet. Someone clue me in, please.

[mxc90]

Nice planning for the writers to have Oksana kill her mother on "Mother's day".

Edited May 11, 2020 by mxc90

[MDKNIGHT]

mxc90 said 

Quote

Nice planning for the writers to have Oksana kill her mother on "Mother's day".

I was just going to comment on that.  It brought an added layer of surreality to the proceedings.

[sugarbaker design]

I love that Jodie got top billing in this episode.  She certainly deserved it.  I'm so glad the writers kept Villanelle the same.  When she met the family I was trying to figure out who was going to die and who was going to survive.  I thought the boy would be the sole survivor.  I was close!  4 died, 2 survived.  I'm not usually a big fan of matricide, esp on Mother's Day, but I was screaming 'kill her' when Mama started her darkness bullshit.  There was nothing that made me believe sparing Piotr was an afterthought.  V not only spared Piotr and little bro, she left them enough money to start over, and see Elton.

[Chaos Theory]

What i got from this was that Villanelle always had problems but with a mother who might have had tendencies herself and was definitely a narcissist Villanelle didn’t get the love and support she needed but was instead abandoned when she became too much to handle.    You could also see what a mother like that did to her two.  They were always set in a trap where they “disappointed” their mother in some way.  
 

I thought a lot of the scenes were fun.   I liked that Villanelle at first was weirded out by a mostly typical family.   I didn’t see any of them as unnecessarily weird.  They all have quirks but everyone does.   I have never met a person who wasn’t a little bit weird or a family that didn’t have their strange habits.

I. really liked that Villanelle had fun at the big fair.   Liked her brothers.   It was just mom who she couldn’t stand.  I understood why she ultimately killed her mother.  But I thought it was progress that she made sure her brothers were safe

[Yakima]

Last year I really enjoyed this show, this year ....meh!  If I couldn't dvr the whole thing and fast forward through the tons of commercials I wouldn't watch it at all.  Just three episodes left and I'm still waiting for something significant. 

[enoughcats]

8 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Nice planning for the writers to have Oksana kill her mother on "Mother's day".

Except....didn't they start the season two weeks early because of the flu?  

If I remember that correctly, (no guarantees) this would have been the 24th of June episode. Could they have moved it a week forwards or backwards?  How will next weeks fit into this? 

What exactly did the Mother say about the orphanage fire? and Vil. corrected her that only two floors were burned.  Why did Mother think that Vil. had burned the entire building down if the whole thing burned with her daughter in it, how would the blame have rested on Vil.?

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, rur said:

11 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Embedded in the middle of the streaming commercials are brief omitted scenes. 

This practice is starting to irritate me. Since they always have time to show them as omitted scenes while not exceeding the one-hour broadcast window, then why aren't they just incorporated into the show?  Is it so we won't notice how many commercials there actually are? 

The snippets are likely part of larger scenes there's no time for, so we get the highlights, as it were.

This episode kind of bored me, tbh. Oh, look, Villanelle's birth family is a bunch of oddballs. I get the larger point of it—are killers born or made?—but this was a long slog to get there, I thought.

I did enjoy the festival, though, and V's delight in winning everything. Hee.

[Valny]

10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

This episode kind of bored me, tbh. Oh, look, Villanelle's birth family is a bunch of oddballs. I get the larger point of it—are killers born or made?—but this was a long slog to get there, I thought.

I did enjoy the festival, though, and V's delight in winning everything. Hee.

Thank you, I thought I was the only one who was a bit bored by this one(compared to the rest) Except for the last 10 minutes which I thought was the best part and really got my attention, I actually looked at my watch wanting this to hurry along and I don't remember ever not liking an ep as much as this.  I love the V character but I guess it was just so out of her element spending time with "family"(people I didn't really care about though) and such that it was just a bit jarring for me.  (Like when they all started dancing around to the Elton John song)    Some of Jodie's facial expressions are so funny though. Loved those.
In that great first season kitchen scene with Even and V,  Eve says, "I know something happened to you."  I am curious, was that "something"  what V's mom did to her or was it more than that? Because in my mind I was thinking something big, like V seeing someone she loved get killed in front of her or something like that, not that getting sent to an orphanage was not traumatic for her but I was thinking it was something else.

[Ms Blue Jay]

What do you guys think Villanelle meant when she said he [Dad] knew that you were like me --  About the mother.

Obviously the mother was not or no longer a killer.  She was able to have a normal life with a big family.

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

What exactly did the Mother say about the orphanage fire? and Vil. corrected her that only two floors were burned.  Why did Mother think that Vil. had burned the entire building down if the whole thing burned with her daughter in it, how would the blame have rested on Vil.?

Very good point.  Who was the witness that would have known Villanelle started the fire if the whole thing burned down.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Lark]

My favorite part was Villnelle's reaction to the brother/girlfriend's flat earth conspiracy theory. I may have to borrow that one!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Closer Look: Villanelle's Family Home

 

[TVbitch]

Kind of disappointed with the way this played out. JC is amazing as usual, but it was kind of just the same pattern V has shown with any people she meets. Initially she is bemused by them, maybe has a bit of fun playing with them, but then she end up killing them cuz they put her off, maybe showing mercy to a kid or something. I was kind of hoping for more. 

Also, if V's mom is also a psychopath, I would have liked for them to have a psychopath to psychopath talk before V killed her. Did her mom just sit there and let V kill her? Mom didn't bat an eye when V said she killed many people. I would have just liked to hear an exchange where they talked about what living with the "darkness" is like. 

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Obviously the mother was not or no longer a killer.  She was able to have a normal life with a big family.

Normal life?  She was demeaning and belittling the boy after he lost the competition, effectively killing his spirit and self-esteem.  Villanelle saw that, asked the kid what was going on.  That's when Villanelle knew she had to kill that woman.  That's why V was chopping beets in the middle of the night, drawing the mother downstairs, giving mother a second chance to redeem herself.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I am absolutely aware that she was a demeaning and belittling mother.  Those are actually not rare in real life. Quite "normal" in my experience.  Certainly normal and regular when you compare it to Villanelle's life which is basically killing people both for money and for sport.  So my question remains.

[MicheleinPhilly]

I was initially skeptical when I heard about this episode because I had read far too many "first 5 episodes" reviews that basically said this one brought everything to a screeching halt. Which yes, it does but I also thought it offered so much in terms of characterization. 

I had also spent too much time theorizing on whether Konstantin was setting her up with a "fake family" just to appease her so I was pleasantly surprised to have been way off on that one. 

I think it has been clear from series 1 that Villanelle craves a certain sense of normalcy and connection but given her psychopathy doesn't quite know what that looks like or how to achieve it. You see her over the course of the few days slowly beginning to let her guard down and relax into the zaniness and connect with Bor'ka but then her mother just brings her crashing back to Earth in one fell swoop. 

When her mother told her "You're not a child" and she responded "I want to feel like one" was the moment everything in this episode clicked for me. Those last 10 minutes were devastating and beautiful in equal measure and I'm excited to see how this affects Villanelle going forward. Will she continue grasping for "normalcy" and connection or will this turn her into an even more ruthless killer who is not solely motivated by money or instructions but by instinct or *gasp* feelings? 

 

[eXiled]

I really dislike it when shows feel the need to explain a villain/antihero's background to the audience. I much preferred the mystery surrounding Villanelle, and last night's episode did nothing to change my mind. Jodie Comer was great, as always, but I was bored more often than not.

The only thing that might have gotten my attention is if Villanelle had left with no blood on her hands. Like, I seriously would have been surprised if she'd been able to end this visit on a pleasant note, with well-wishes, and a promise to visit again soon.

I miss the show that used to surprise me. I think about you all the time, Show. Please come back to me.

[slf]

Villanelle's mother didn't strike me as a narcissist at all. Rather there seemed to be a void there. She has a body and she can cry and dance but inside there's just....nothing.

She had this stare around Villanelle, like she was looking directly at who Villanelle really is rather than who she pretends to be. And she found it exhausting. Raising a daughter just like herself must have been so tiring; she couldn't bare to have another one around the house so she got rid of her.

 

[TimWil]

12 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Nice planning for the writers to have Oksana kill her mother on "Mother's day".

enoughcats was correct. The season premiere was pushed up as a “gift” by AMC/BBCA for us “during this difficult time.” Which is, you know, sort of ironic considering it’s a show geared towards raising our blood pressure via depicting grisly murders. A feel-good show during these dark times it ain’t.

I was glad for this “change of pace” episode because I think we needed a bit of a breather after Niko’s nasty demise, especially after we didn’t get one after Kenny’s.

Edited May 11, 2020 by TimWil

[Arkay]

It was interesting to me that Villanelle spared Pyotor and Bor'ka (spelling?). Is this...love? I know she's got plenty of money, but making the effort to get Bor'ka to the barn to join Pyotor required a lot more of her than an envelope of money. I presume she had to sneak into the room to set the boy's alarm and leave that note after he had fallen asleep. That actually seems like...love...without the twisted emotions she feels for Eve, and maybe Konstantin, both of whom she has tried to kill. 

I enjoyed the episode although I did miss Eve and particularly Konstantin. He's my favorite character.

I'm not sure if, when she told her mother that she DID cry when she was a girl, if that was a heartfelt memory or a manipulative act. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

16 minutes ago, Arkay said:

I'm not sure if, when she told her mother that she DID cry when she was a girl, if that was a heartfelt memory or a manipulative act. 

I think this a really interesting thing to consider because we've seen Villanelle be confronted with the idea that she "doesn't feel anything" and I've always wondered what sort of defense mechanisms she is employing and why. I have certainly noticed a pattern this season of her being more outwardly emotional. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

20 minutes ago, Arkay said:

It was interesting to me that Villanelle spared Pyotor and Bor'ka (spelling?). Is this...love? I know she's got plenty of money, but making the effort to get Bor'ka to the barn to join Pyotor required a lot more of her than an envelope of money. I presume she had to sneak into the room to set the boy's alarm and leave that note after he had fallen asleep. That actually seems like...love...without the twisted emotions she feels for Eve, and maybe Konstantin, both of whom she has tried to kill. 

That's sweet.  It's like she sees the good potential in Bor'ka.  Bor'ka is like Oskana right before she became Villanelle.  

[ScandalOZ]

5 hours ago, Valny said:

In that great first season kitchen scene with Even and V,  Eve says, "I know something happened to you."  I am curious, was that "something"  what V's mom did to her or was it more than that? Because in my mind I was thinking something big, like V seeing someone she loved get killed in front of her or something like that, not that getting sent to an orphanage was not traumatic for her but I was thinking it was something else.

Maybe I've seen too many stories about abused kids but after Villanelle talked about her father and Tatiana said something about how Villanelle always had a strange hold on him I wondered if he was inappropriately interested in her. Villanelle does have a things about cutting of guys dicks so I've wondered if there was molestation in her background.

And Eve words were to the effect of  "What did HE do to you?" when they were at her kitchen table S1 E5.

[ruby24]

I don't know what I was supposed to get from this one that shed any light on Villanelle as a character, tbh. 

[Madding crowd]

I think we were supposed to cheer for Villanelle killing most of this family, even though only the mother was guilty of anything. Last week we had the ‘kill people in amusing ways to peppy music’ and this week we are supposed to think the flat earth people deserved to die. 

I liked Villanelle best when she was mysterious and we knew little about her. Jodie Cormer is fantastic but V acts like a child and I just never believe the agency would keep someone like her  on. She is intelligent but uncontrollable and messy which doesn’t scream professional. I’m still watching to see if Eve ever gets an interesting story , but tired of Villanelle.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Madding crowd

[ams1001]

33 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

and this week we are supposed to think the flat earth people deserved to die. 

I'm not sure she thought they "deserved" it so much as she found them annoying and she just didn't care. 

[DrSparkles]

That dance troupe performance was EVERYTHING.

[Ohwell]

56 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I'm not sure she thought they "deserved" it so much as she found them annoying and she just didn't care. 

It doesn't matter.  She still murdered them which I thought was all kinds of wrong.  But then, that's V for you.  

[stealinghome]

Just had a chance to watch and first, I either have Villanelle's plaid pants or pants very much like them, which really tickled me as I was watching--I kept staring at the pants instead of the action! Also, they were seriously channeling one of Keri Russell's The Americans disguises when Villanelle was in that Elton wig and glasses, hee.

Second, the actress who played Villanelle's mother was really well cast. She had absolutely dead eyes no matter what the hell was happening. That she didn't bat an eye--or show any emotion--when Villanelle said she'd killed a lot of people, and then that she'd have to kill her mother, was everything.

Third: Villanelle is heading for a massive breakdown, which doesn't bode well for anyone. She looked like she was about to absolutely snap and kill the whole world in the last scene on the train. I think this whole debacle is just going to strengthen her attachment to Eve and Konstantin, as the two people she could maybe belong with that are left, and she will not be pleased when she finds out what Dasha did. (Speaking of Eve, I didn't miss being in London for a single moment this episode, which I don't think means good things for that half of the storyline.... And I even object on principle to killing Niko and not showing one whit of the aftermath.)

Which is why, even though this episode did a lot of character work, I also think it advanced the season-long plot, because now both Villanelle and Eve are at the absolute end of their ropes emotionally. They're both also now totally alone in the world, feeling bereft of all meaningful connections. The show is setting it up to where all they have left is each other.

Fourth: the fact that the prize for the shit-throwing contest was a fan is inspired, ha.

20 hours ago, MDKNIGHT said:

Who thinks her dad isn't dead?

Yeah, I'm wondering about this myself. I mean, everyone apparently lied to Villanelle for years about her whole family being dead, so what's one more lie about her dad? The bigger question would be, who is he that he is important enough for the additional need to hide his death?

18 hours ago, Arkay said:

I know the mother was killed before the fire. Did V. stab her with the knife? I presume so, but I didn't see bloodstains, just a pattern on the carpet. Someone clue me in, please.

We didn't see how Villanelle killed her mom, nor any clues that I could see, which I find super interesting. The show is usually (for better or worse) quite explicit in showing her kills, so that it chose to keep this one hidden from us is quite interesting. How did V do it? What emotions did she show/feel when she did it? How did her mom go out? What was the dynamic between them at the very end? We don't know, and that's kind of a tantalizing knowledge gap in my view. It also suggests, I think, that V took no pleasure in the kill, which is interesting in its own right.

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

What i got from this was that Villanelle always had problems but with a mother who might have had tendencies herself and was definitely a narcissist Villanelle didn’t get the love and support she needed but was instead abandoned when she became too much to handle.    You could also see what a mother like that did to her two.  They were always set in a trap where they “disappointed” their mother in some way.  
...

I thought a lot of the scenes were fun.   I liked that Villanelle at first was weirded out by a mostly typical family.   I didn’t see any of them as unnecessarily weird.  They all have quirks but everyone does.   I have never met a person who wasn’t a little bit weird or a family that didn’t have their strange habits.

Yes, I think the show strongly indicated that it's a both/and situation instead of either/or. I totally believe that Villanelle was a bad seed from the start and Tatiana saw it, but equally, I believe that her mother was also really, really off (dead eyes!), that she was able to see that V was off in part because she shares that same void inside, and that that void in her mother helped shape Villanelle into who she is.

I also didn't think the family was made overly quirky. If anything, they were a lot of stereotypes--the decent man V's terrible mother convinced to marry her, the annoying and boorish stepbrother contrasted against the nicer hardworking biological brother, the precious and innocent little half-brother.

6 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

I think it has been clear from series 1 that Villanelle craves a certain sense of normalcy and connection but given her psychopathy doesn't quite know what that looks like or how to achieve it. You see her over the course of the few days slowly beginning to let her guard down and relax into the zaniness and connect with Bor'ka but then her mother just brings her crashing back to Earth in one fell swoop. 

...Will she continue grasping for "normalcy" and connection or will this turn her into an even more ruthless killer who is not solely motivated by money or instructions but by instinct or *gasp* feelings?

Agreed. I would also add that Season 3 has been quite consistent in showing that Eve's rejection of Villanelle--and the crashing down of Villanelle's dream of them going off to live in Alaska--at the end of S2 has been just burning up Villanelle and making the lack of connection something that is driving her crazy. She tried to get married in 3x01, she had that moment of connection with the disaster baby assassin in 3x02 over rejection, she's fixated on the baby and reuniting with Eve in 3x03 and also goes out of her way to connect with Konstantin again, she makes Konstantin search out her real family and also had that moment of connection with the lady she kills in 3x04.... She's desperate for some sort of meaningful connection right now.

Which is why what she's pissed at her mom for isn't for leaving for her at the orphanage--it's for not admitting that she (Tatiana) is just like Villanelle. Her last terrible act as Villanelle's mother is to deny the connection that Villanelle wants by refusing to confirm that she and Villanelle are two peas in a pod. And more broadly, it's for being a terrible mother to young Oksana--in other words, for never connecting with Villanelle when she was a child.

5 hours ago, Arkay said:

I'm not sure if, when she told her mother that she DID cry when she was a girl, if that was a heartfelt memory or a manipulative act. 

Or both? And an equally interesting question: when Young Villanelle cried, was it heartfelt, a manipulation, or both?

[Madding crowd]

A professional assassin wouldn’t kill people because she found them annoying. That is V’s thing but I’m just not finding it charming or amusing. 

[Sam Spayaid]

7 hours ago, eXiled said:

I miss the show that used to surprise me. I think about you all the time, Show. Please come back to me.

My thoughts exactly. I LOVED the first two seasons. This one? Not so much. It has felt weird, awkward and disjointed from the first episode and this one, to me, was the worst of the lot. I was bored as hell and ended up fast forwarding (thankfully, I PVR everything these days due to the staggering amount of commercials) pretty much the entire show.

I don't know if it's the fault of the writers, producers or who but someone has really messed up this show. It used to be so much more interesting, riveting and unique. It feels to me that just when something good gets started, it just sort of fizzles out.

I heard somewhere that season three can be the kiss of death for shows and it really looks like this one is going that route. Too bad. It needs to find it's footing again before it's too late.

[nameless slob]

6 hours ago, Arkay said:

I'm not sure if, when she told her mother that she DID cry when she was a girl, if that was a heartfelt memory or a manipulative act. 

 

6 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

I think this a really interesting thing to consider because we've seen Villanelle be confronted with the idea that she "doesn't feel anything" and I've always wondered what sort of defense mechanisms she is employing and why. I have certainly noticed a pattern this season of her being more outwardly emotional

This reminded me that Villanelle cried during an episode on season 1, I believe it was season one.

In the end of the episode, the one where she beats up a woman on the bathroom of a club and Konstantin drags her out.

I remember she was crying looking in the mirror and smiling as well from the fact she was indeed crying and actually  feeling something.

[Lady of nod]

I loved this episode, but then I'm really more obsessed with Villanelle than anything else in this show. The whole Elton John family sing along was hilarious, I loved the fair and her joy at winning the toss. Her reaction to the flatearthers and the mention of David Icke's lizard theory. 

I knew she'd auf mom and that was fine with me. Glad she spared the bros. 

Where's Dad? Was he around when Mom dumped Villanelle? I'll have to rewatch.

Nature or nurture? Age old question. I'd say in her case a combination of the two.

Jody Comer continues to dazzle me.

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Sam Spayaid said:

My thoughts exactly. I LOVED the first two seasons. This one? Not so much. It has felt weird, awkward and disjointed from the first episode and this one, to me, was the worst of the lot. I was bored as hell and ended up fast forwarding (thankfully, I PVR everything these days due to the staggering amount of commercials) pretty much the entire show.

I don't know if it's the fault of the writers, producers or who but someone has really messed up this show. It used to be so much more interesting, riveting and unique. It feels to me that just when something good gets started, it just sort of fizzles out.

I heard somewhere that season three can be the kiss of death for shows and it really looks like this one is going that route. Too bad. It needs to find it's footing again before it's too late.

Pretty much sums up how I feel. The first season was must see tv for me, the second less excited and this episode I was bored from start to well I can't say finish because I didn't finish!  I thought it was just me 

[xtwheeler]

On 5/10/2020 at 7:50 PM, slf said:

What did work for me: not creating a real origin for Villanelle's psychopathy. Her mother was off, you could see it almost right from the start, and she was clearly a bully to her children. But none of her other kids were like Villanelle and plenty of other people endure far, far worse and aren't killers. So maybe Villanelle was made that way by her mother, or maybe she was born like her mother and it's genetic, or maybe she already had something in her and her mother's meanness just sharpened it, or maybe Villanelle was just always spiralling and it would have happened no matter what.

For true psychopaths, basically "nature" is the gun, "nurture" loads the bullets, and the "stressor" pulls the trigger. The difference between a born psychopath who becomes a serial killer and one who becomes VP at Goldman Sachs is the environment in which they were raised. 

On 5/10/2020 at 7:52 PM, MDKNIGHT said:

I wonder how realistic the Russian fair was.  I can envision something that was that tacky and both funny and sad at the same time.  But I don't know if that is because that is what American fiction says rural Russia is like.  Anybody have first hand knowledge? 

My experience (of the USSR, though, not present day Russia) was that fair was spot on, as were the fashions. 

Also with regard to psychopaths, it isn't that they don't have emotions, it is just that they only care about their own emotions. People & their feelings matter no more to them than an empty box. Their emotional responses are often blunted or disordered, but there are things they feel verrrrrrry deeply. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

A professional assassin wouldn’t kill people because she found them annoying. That is V’s thing but I’m just not finding it charming or amusing. 

She's more than a professional assassin.  There's something in her that drives her to kill to solve problems, to help her feel certain emotions, to help her resolve things within herself.  Yes, that's her job, but she would be doing it anyway.

I wish that Villanelle's reaction to the Flat Earth comments weren't spoiled by previews/commercials.  Then it would have had so much more comedic impact on me.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay