S03.E18: Heartbreak

[Trini]

Dr. Claire Browne and Dr. Shaun Murphy treat a patient with a rare form of dwarfism. Meanwhile, Dr. Morgan Reznick, Dr. Audrey Lim and Dr. Alex Park treat a young man who had both arms torn off in a previous farming accident; and Shaun reacts to an emotional situation.

Written by David Renaud and Thomas Moran, and directed by Steven DePaul.

Airdate: 3/9/2020

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I hope they move on from Shaun's love life next season. It has consumed the show

All the hatred he spewed at Lea was because Lea rejected his advances. It is nothing close to being two timed by an asshole. Shaun had no grounds, none.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Annber03]

Okay, so that ending with Shaun and Lea was...intense. Whoa. I'm glad he didn't do anything to her car, at least. He needs to keep listening to Glassman and Claire, they're talking sense. 'Cause at this rate I'm thinking Shaun and Lea aren't even going to be friends when all is said and done. 

Claire and Lim had a lot of good moments in this episode in general. Pushing back against those who tried to argue with them about the cases and other things, standing their ground on stuff, Claire doing her part to help try and snap Shaun out of his funk, things like that. I like it. 

I can very much sympathize with Morgan's struggle to let go of doing what she loves. That would be quite tough, especially given how hard she's worked to get here. And medical advancements and technology being what they are, she may well be right when she points out how different things could be ten years or so down the line when it comes to helping with the kinds of problems she's dealing with. But I also think she needs to consider Glassman's words a little more as well. I'd like to hope that there's some kind of compromise solution or something on the horizon for her, but who knows. 

I've made my feelings on the idea of Melendez/Claire known already, so I'm just leaving that be for now. 

[Lady Calypso]

Wow...Shaun went Full Asshole in this episode.

I actually found myself hating him for the first time on the show. No matter how heartbroken he is over Lea's rejection, it's no excuse to be an asshole to every single person. 

That ending with Shaun/Lea...made me feel really bad for Lea. He probably should have smashed the car instead of smashing her heart. I don't see how Lea/Shaun can recover as friends from this, and I kind of hope that they don't. It just feels like Shaun was waiting to see if Lea would ever reciprocate feelings and now that she's told him that they're not compatible for various reasons, he can't handle it. He needs serious therapy, but I also hope that this effectively ends any hinting at Lea/Shaun. 

And also, Shaun needs to stay single until he figures out how to control his emotions. Because really, even if he managed to keep himself in check by not destroying Lea's car, he decided to tell her the things that he hated about her (he clearly heard the wrong message from Glassman!)

The cases were really interesting this week, especially Titanium Arm Man.

I can only empathize with Morgan's RA for so long. I'm super glad Glassman was blunt with his opinion. I'm glad he called her out on her stupidity for the surgery, even if it seems like she's going through with it. I kind of hope that she doesn't.

Claire admits feelings for Melendez first before he admits feelings for her! Surprise! I am also glad we saw Claire actually interacting with Shaun. Shaun needs to interact with more people not named Lea or Glassman (or Carly).

 

[catrice2]

Of course they will have Leah see the error of her ways when she thinks Shaun might be dead...oh good grief!  And yes, although it is good to get back on the horse, it is not mandatory to go  out with the goal of dating or meeting someone.  How about finding some friends outside of work? 

Glad that Morgan finally admitted what was going on, but not happy that Lim let her do the surgery. Sure, I know it is a television show and it made a tender moment, but I am ready for some realism.  No way Shaun is having those tantrums and still working as a surgeon.  I 'm over it. I am ready for him to join a support group or get an unbiased mentor who can objectively help him work on coping strategies. 

People fall for their co workers who happen to be bosses every day. I just wish they would stop doing it to death on every show.  The should have let Melendez get the job and Claire work for Lim...but then again they never should have done the Melendez/Lim thing.  They were not interesting together and if they were going this route it would have made things more palatable.  I'm over people sleeping with everyone in the hospital.  I think I made it through 2 seasons of Grey's, maybe three, I might have to lose this show. 

Still missing Jared and I mentally insert how his character wold have made a difference in so many situations, including my having a Jared/Claire romance instead....or I could have found out about his rich weird parents instead of the other losers Claire, Morgan and Shaun have.....

I've said all year someone has to go....my money was on Lim or Hill Harper, unless Antonia Thomas is tired of coming over from the U.K.  I would not be sad to see Leah or Morgan go...Park is o.k., Glassman is annoying.  

What happened to his cancer doctor from House? 

 

[rhys]

Has Morgan exhausted all treatment options? It seems she went from two drugs -------> surgery. I'm thinking there could be more drugs to try first?? One of my kids has Psoriatic arthritis & it took a couple years & 3 drugs to find the right one.

[PinkRibbons]

Screw it, I'm happy Shaun said what he did to Lea. She hurt him, he hurt her back. No one was ever going to be happy, but maybe they're at least even.

[bros402]

So first off, WABC (covers the NYC area) made an oopsie in one of the "Here's what's on tonight" bumpers - they said it was the Season Premiere of The Good Doctor tonight. I was like "uhhhh what"

Second, this episode had interesting cases, but Shaun needs therapy yesterday. Or maybe to move in with Glassman for a little while, so he has more of a supportive environment - something needs to change. Shaun needs to learn to regulate his emotions and what he did with Lea was not good *at all*.

Why weren't the cops called on the ex who smashed up the dude's car?

And I think by now my feelings are known on a Melendez-Claire relationship - maybe in the next episode, it will be shot down permanently. Hopefully.

[CarpeFelis]

Wow, I wonder if the writers have been hanging out here, because most of what Shaun said to Lea was exactly what a lot of us have been saying about her, starting with “flaky”.

[Suzysite]

8 hours ago, rhys said:

Has Morgan exhausted all treatment options? It seems she went from two drugs -------> surgery. I'm thinking there could be more drugs to try first?? One of my kids has Psoriatic arthritis & it took a couple years & 3 drugs to find the right one.

She really hasn't.  The DMARDs might have failed but they never tried biologics or chemo-like treatments.   I've had almost all of them and you can usually find something that works. 

A synovectomy is pretty drastic, even if it's just on one joint, like the knee.   Is she going to have every joint of every finger operated on?   Baloney.  That would set her back far more than dealing with RA stiffness and pain.  And RA is rarely limited to one area, so what's next, elbows, shoulders, etc?     Who writes this stuff?

Edited March 10, 2020 by Suzysite

[vibeology]

If I'm supposed to think Shaun is the aggrieved party in all of this, the show has done a horrible job. Shaun was scary in their scene, holding that bat, threatening violence against her property. (Just to be clear, when one of the girlfriends did it earlier on, I also wasn't a fan. Before He Cheats is a song, not a guide for how to behave.) And for Shaun to turn around and yell at Lea all the reasons she told him they wouldn't work out was bullshit. She told him that she was selfish, flaky and needy but he refused to accept that. He pushed and pushed because he felt entitled to date her. And I don't think she's prejudiced. I get no sense that she wouldn't date someone with autism; just that she won't date Shaun and his autism is a part of the reason why. Shaun needs therapy. He badgered her all last week because he didn't like that she turned him down and he doesn't have the coping skills necessary for a committed relationship. And those things, in Shaun's case, are tied directly to his autism.

As for Melendez and Claire well, I don't think she's alone in her feelings. That speech from Melendez was about as romantic you can get. Of course, if he dates her he'll be a giant hypocrite. Also, I think he's already lost his objectivity when it comes to her. But they do have great chemistry and a great mutual respect and trust so it would be a shame if nothing happened.

I guess the lesson of the week is men and women can't be friends.

[milner]

I think this show is doing a real disservice to people on the autism spectrum, especially high functioning ones like Shaun is supposed to be.  He acts like a spoiled brat.  Regardless of his difficulties  he should have been at least suspended if not fired.  I am so tired of this whole plot line. The entire show has become a huge soap opera. Let’s get back to medicine. 

[AriAu]

Quote

 The entire show has become a huge soap opera. Let’s get back to medicine. 

Actually, it is turning into Grey's Anatomy....which is not necessarily a good thing based on the last few episodes of each.

How much work will it take Dr. Toby to get Shawn into therapy?

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I kept reminding myself it was bad writing, because the stuff about Shaun going off the rails was just too much.  I do not believe that his character would act that impervious to a patient in need, no matter what he was feeling about Leah.  Just not believable to me.  

I did relate to the final scene of his tell off to Leah, minus the ball bat thing.  I wish he would have elaborated a little about how she had loud sex with other men while he could overhear, knowing he was in love with her, and she didn't CARE.  I guess this was included in the part about how she didn't respect him.  I hope this ends it and it's not the break up before the makeup sex.  UGGGHHH, no. Please do not bring them together again for any reason.  

I have no interest in Claire/Melendez.  I don't see why he would do this and it really annoys me.  They both know better, why it's a bad idea, will lead to issues, it's improper, etc.  Plus, they are not peers.  The power is unequal and there's no way it can truly be a workable arrangement.  He seems weak, with her preying on him, but, it's not really like that. He has the power and she is really desperate. Not good.  All of the things that he is saying to her are IMPROPER, like how she makes him a better person.  BS, shut up and keep it professional. 

Like I said before, they'll have to kill Morgan to get her out of surgery. 

Man, I just love Lim. She's so good and I'm glad she's no longer with Melendez.  He pulled her down. She is really shining now.  

[preeya]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Man, I just love Lim. She's so good and I'm glad she's no longer with Melendez.  He pulled her down. She is really shining now.  

When he was in the subordinate position, with Lim as his boss, he knew the relationship was taboo. Now that he's in the superior position his focus changes and it's OK to pursue a subordinate. Can't have it both ways Melendez; stop thinking with your Johnson.

[vibeology]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

  I wish he would have elaborated a little about how she had loud sex with other men while he could overhear, knowing he was in love with her, and she didn't CARE.

I cannot see how that is on Lea. When Shaun wanted to move in with her, she told him directly that one of her concerns is that she'd be seeing other men and Shaun said he was fine with that. If he wasn't, that became his problem to fix by moving out.

Shaun has taken no ownership or responsibility for this entire Lea situation and that's where my frustration comes from. Lea has said, over and over, that she doesn't want to date Shaun. Shaun has been "nice guy-ing" her, hanging around and it looks like only being her friend because he believed it would lead to something more. He pushed her to date him, he pushed her to move in together and he pushed her to date him again and every time this has happened, Lea has objected and made clear her feelings. Shaun is a jerk who turned violent (because smashing the bat on the ground still counts as violence and was probably very scary for Lea who was somewhere isolated, at night with an angry guy who is much stronger than she is and who had a weapon) when he didn't get the woman he felt entitled to. His actions are the problem here. Lea has communicated clearly, time and again, where she stands and Shaun refuses to respect her feelings. For me, they need to do some serious character rehab on Shaun if I'm supposed to like him.

1 minute ago, preeya said:

When he was in the subordinate position, with Lim as his boss, he knew the relationship was taboo. Now that he's in the superior position his focus changes and it's OK to pursue a subordinate. Can't have it both ways Melendez; stop thinking with your Johnson.

To be fair to Melendez, I think he's actively trying not to pursue Claire. That's what spending less time with her after the complaint was. That's what all the pushing her towards the other guy was. If he can just make Claire unavailable, he thinks his problem can go away. It won't and I do think his objectivity is shot already, but he's not actually pursuing her.

[mojito]

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

She told him that she was selfish, flaky and needy but he refused to accept that. He pushed and pushed because he felt entitled to date her. And I don't think she's prejudiced. I get no sense that she wouldn't date someone with autism; just that she won't date Shaun and his autism is a part of the reason why. Shaun needs therapy. He badgered her all last week because he didn't like that she turned him down and he doesn't have the coping skills necessary for a committed relationship. And those things, in Shaun's case, are tied directly to his autism.

I guess the lesson of the week is men and women can't be friends.

Shaun didn't say much more about Leah's faults than Leah has already owned up to. I don't think Leah led Shaun on. Let's face it: Shaun doesn't know much about having friends or that one can have friends for different reasons/moods. One makes you laugh. You can really open up to another.  One is the one you do more for than they do for you, but that, too, is satisfying. One is more of an activities friend. One may just be good company on occasion. Etc. 

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

Man, I just love Lim. She's so good and I'm glad she's no longer with Melendez.  He pulled her down. She is really shining now.  

I like how Lim interacts with everyone. 

Claire, there's a whole world of men outside the hospital. Find a few.

Morgan...As someone who consistently got Ds in most of the sciences, it's hard for me to imagine that she couldn't find satisfaction working in some other way in the medical field. I would love to have her brains and knowledge and for me, the sky would be the limit career-wise. Laser-like focus makes for a brilliant professional, but it can sure be limiting.

[SunnyBeBe]

To me, Leah played coy with Shaun.  If she truly wasn't interested, then why did Carly get the exact opposite impression.  Leah said a lot of things, but, her actions said another.  

Melendez making those half asped comments to encourage Claire to move on with another man, were laughable, imo.  He sits with puppy dog eyes and tells her how she completes him.....please.  So manipulative.  To me, that's so unattractive.  

[Driad]

I hoped that if Morgan couldn't be a surgeon without that risky surgery, she would look into other specialties.  (I'm still disappointed that ER did not do this with Romano.) Not sure how Morgan could stay on the show if she were not a surgeon, but if written well (hey, I can wish) it could be interesting, and a break from the boring soap opera.

[SunnyBeBe]

You know for a slight second, when Morgan was watching the patient use his titanium hands......I thought that Morgan was thinking of a way that she could do it.  I mean, there is really robot surgery, right?  I've seen it in real things on tv.  Not sure, if you can make a career out of just doing that though.  

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, mojito said:

Morgan...As someone who consistently got Ds in most of the sciences, it's hard for me to imagine that she couldn't find satisfaction working in some other way in the medical field. I would love to have her brains and knowledge and for me, the sky would be the limit career-wise. Laser-like focus makes for a brilliant professional, but it can sure be limiting.

When you consider that Morgan's mom was ready to die rather than give up art, it does make some sense. Morgan grew up in a household with that do or die attitude and she's clearly absorbed it. Plus, she's made her identity a surgeon to combat the fact that she isn't artistic like her family. She does the hardest, best thing in medicine (in her opinion) and that's more important than a painting even if her mother doesn't see it. It's not what I would do, but I get why she's making that choice.

[statsgirl]

Morgan is as obsessed with her calling in surgery as her mother is with her art.  Hopefully Glassman and Lim will be able to talk her out of the surgery. Lim could refuse to let her continue her residency if she has it.

Speaking of which, Melendez telling Shaun that if he doesn't get back in there and prep the patient for surgery he won't be working as a surgical resident at the hospital any more was awesome.  Also the "kids" eyeroll expression on Melendez's face afterwards.

Shaun has been cut a lot of slack for his autism over the course of the show, are they still going to do it or was this the tipping point?  This episode had Shaun being super immature and pissy, and I'm ready to be done with Shaun's love life and immaturity.

Lim was good in this episode, pushing for what the patient wanted until there was no choice any more. Nice adult talk between her and Andrews.

I really do think that Melendez is trying to shut down his feelings for Claire and encourage her to make her own decisions but very few people can control their feelings, only their actions.  I do think Claire was unaware of her feelings until she tried to make something work with Dash.

[SunnyBeBe]

The night Claire practically coerced Melendez to have dinner with her in that restaurant, I think she showed just how intent on getting close to him she was.   I mean, who pressures someone to dine with you to that extent?  It was way over the line. I wouldn't even be that insistent with a good friend, let alone a supervisor. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[Annber03]

Considering how lonely and adrift Claire's been lately, I don't know if it's so much that she's targeting Melendez specifically, but that it's more she's just taking any company she can get, whether she knows the person well (Melendez, Dash) or not (that guy she hooked up with earlier in the season), and whether she wants something more with them or not. She's been through a lot, so it's only natural that she'd respond to anyone who's taking the time to reach out and listen to her. And I can easily see where that would lead her to having confusing, conflicting feelings in the process. Especially when it's somebody she does know well. 

[kirkola]

5 hours ago, vibeology said:

I cannot see how that is on Lea. When Shaun wanted to move in with her, she told him directly that one of her concerns is that she'd be seeing other men and Shaun said he was fine with that. If he wasn't, that became his problem to fix by moving out.

Shaun has taken no ownership or responsibility for this entire Lea situation and that's where my frustration comes from. Lea has said, over and over, that she doesn't want to date Shaun. Shaun has been "nice guy-ing" her, hanging around and it looks like only being her friend because he believed it would lead to something more. He pushed her to date him, he pushed her to move in together and he pushed her to date him again and every time this has happened, Lea has objected and made clear her feelings. Shaun is a jerk who turned violent (because smashing the bat on the ground still counts as violence and was probably very scary for Lea who was somewhere isolated, at night with an angry guy who is much stronger than she is and who had a weapon) when he didn't get the woman he felt entitled to. His actions are the problem here. Lea has communicated clearly, time and again, where she stands and Shaun refuses to respect her feelings. For me, they need to do some serious character rehab on Shaun if I'm supposed to like him.

To be fair to Melendez, I think he's actively trying not to pursue Claire. That's what spending less time with her after the complaint was. That's what all the pushing her towards the other guy was. If he can just make Claire unavailable, he thinks his problem can go away. It won't and I do think his objectivity is shot already, but he's not actually pursuing her.

If Shaun was a regular guy I would agree with this assessment of his character.  But because he's autistic he does not necessarily understand the boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable behavior in mixed company.  I don't know that Shaun ever believed that living with her, etc. would lead to them getting together.  He didn't begin demanding a romantic relationship until Carly told him he had to admit his feelings. 

And I'm not saying he didn't have issues with Lea bringing guys home and what not, but he was adhering to the boundaries and limitations that Lea set.  I'm saying that Shaun's world is very black and white.  There is very little room for the gray areas that relationships can have.  As we saw with Carly, those can be navigated with plenty of open communication and planning.  It's a lot to process with someone like Shaun.  And Lea not feeling it is perfectly valid.  But Lea should have created boundaries to ensure things never crossed the line. 

Much of this episode would have been negated if Shaun had just done what Dr. Glassman had suggested in Season 1 and gotten a therapist to help him navigate his new world as a doctor.

[SunnyBeBe]

For some reason, people who need therapy the most, seek it the least.  Iol  

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Speaking of which, Melendez telling Shaun that if he doesn't get back in there and prep the patient for surgery he won't be working as a surgical resident at the hospital any more was awesome.  Also the "kids" eyeroll expression on Melendez's face afterwards.

Yes.  I thought Shaun was not only being unprofessional, but also insubordinate and basically a straight out asshole.  I am so glad Melendez called him on it and threatened his residency because if he hadn't, then that would have been a case for someone showing clear favoritism.

I don't like Leah, but the bat and the imminent destruction of property and the threatening body language was terrible.  It really made Shaun into one of those guys... a guy who can't take rejection so he turns it on the woman and blames her.  Personally, I would have liked it a lot more if he had simply frozen her out.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I liked the first season when it seemed like Claire and Jared were taking Shaun under their wings and socialized with him and the three started to seem like friends.  I wish they'd go there with the current 4 residents, make them a friend unit instead of always pitting them in this quasi rivalry.  They dipped a toe in it with Claire and Morgan, but reverted Morgan back to her bitchy ways.  But it would be nice to see them go to happy hour or interact more socially.  My goodness they work with each other so much, you'd think one of them would have a cook out or something and invite their peers over.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I really do think that Melendez is trying to shut down his feelings for Claire and encourage her to make her own decisions but very few people can control their feelings, only their actions.  I do think Claire was unaware of her feelings until she tried to make something work with Dash.

This is my take.  I think Melendez may have even acknowledged it to himself during the little dinner/drinks thing with Claire a few weeks ago.  Then he rationalized it away.  His little speech to Claire is tantamount to a romantic declaration.  LOL.  I do like that Claire admitted it to her therapist.  That is the safest space for her to make that admission.  She has said it out loud to someone else, but it is someone who has to keep it to themselves.  What remains to be seen is how she handles it going forward.  Now that she has vocally acknowledged it, is that enough and can she soldier through it?

[Fable]

I don’t see how Leah can ever consider being friends with Shaun again.  That would have been the last straw for me, and certainly would have cemented the certainty that I had made the right decision not to pursue a romantic relationship.  To be honest, I think I may have been done after being forced to move out of my home on short notice after being badgered into living there in the first place. 

Sadly, I am growing to dislike Shaun, and that’s too bad because Freddie Highmore was the draw to this show for me.  I’m going to chalk this off to bad writing because almost everything Shaun did seemed incredibly out of character.  Fortunately, I like most of the other characters, so I’m not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but I’m not looking forward to watching Shaun unravel, so hopefully this will come to a head soon. 

[rhys]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You know for a slight second, when Morgan was watching the patient use his titanium hands......I thought that Morgan was thinking of a way that she could do it.  I mean, there is really robot surgery, right?  I've seen it in real things on tv.  Not sure, if you can make a career out of just doing that though.  

I thought she was thinking about how to help patients who had lost limbs.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, rhys said:

I thought she was thinking about how to help patients who had lost limbs.

Well, that's also possible.   She has a lot in common with them or will down the road if her condition is progressive.  My grandfather had a horrific case of RA (his entire body was affected)  and he died way too early, after being immobilized by it for years.   This was years ago, though, before all the advancements in medicine. He died in the 80's.   Quite a few of our family members also have the condition and some are coping pretty well with injections. 

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Yes.  I thought Shaun was not only being unprofessional, but also insubordinate and basically a straight out asshole.  I am so glad Melendez called him on it and threatened his residency because if he hadn't, then that would have been a case for someone showing clear favoritism.

I don't like Leah, but the bat and the imminent destruction of property and the threatening body language was terrible.  It really made Shaun into one of those guys... a guy who can't take rejection so he turns it on the woman and blames her.  Personally, I would have liked it a lot more if he had simply frozen her out.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I liked the first season when it seemed like Claire and Jared were taking Shaun under their wings and socialized with him and the three started to seem like friends.  I wish they'd go there with the current 4 residents, make them a friend unit instead of always pitting them in this quasi rivalry.  They dipped a toe in it with Claire and Morgan, but reverted Morgan back to her bitchy ways.  But it would be nice to see them go to happy hour or interact more socially.  My goodness they work with each other so much, you'd think one of them would have a cook out or something and invite their peers over.

This is my take.  I think Melendez may have even acknowledged it to himself during the little dinner/drinks thing with Claire a few weeks ago.  Then he rationalized it away.  His little speech to Claire is tantamount to a romantic declaration.  LOL.  I do like that Claire admitted it to her therapist.  That is the safest space for her to make that admission.  She has said it out loud to someone else, but it is someone who has to keep it to themselves.  What remains to be seen is how she handles it going forward.  Now that she has vocally acknowledged it, is that enough and can she soldier through it?

Yes to all of this, but in my opinion Melendez started to have feelings for Claire in season one and Lim was the "right" thing to do instead. At least that is how it has always looked to me. Shaun was mimicking the actions of someone else but I would argue that he should have known it was wrong.  He is capable of reasoning right from wrong so there should be no reason that just because the woman did that at the end of her relationship he thought that it was what you do.  They set it up that way to distance Shaun from the action. I'm just tired of every stereotype associated with autism being portrayed and with them not dealing with the inappropriateness of his outbursts at work.. Jobs have to make reasonable accommodations, not put up with inappropriate behavior and it is not the employers responsibility to teach him social skills.  This whole premise that they put up with it because he is brilliant has worn thin.  They are all pretty smart and in the real world there will always be someone just as good and if not just as good at least capable without baggage.  There needs to be repercussions for his actions. 

By the way, Shaun is shown favoritism all the time but it is interesting that the only situation people complain about is the one with the woman.....

Not looking forward to how they will worm Leah back into the show.....

[KaveDweller]

18 hours ago, rhys said:

Has Morgan exhausted all treatment options? It seems she went from two drugs -------> surgery. I'm thinking there could be more drugs to try first?? One of my kids has Psoriatic arthritis & it took a couple years & 3 drugs to find the right one.

And wasn't the first drug working okay, it just had side effects. Obviously not a good long term solution but it seems like there are other things to try. I get how hard it must be for her though, to know what you love and not be able to do it really sucks.

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

To me, Leah played coy with Shaun.  If she truly wasn't interested, then why did Carly get the exact opposite impression.  Leah said a lot of things, but, her actions said another. 

Just because Carly got the impression Leah was into Shaun doesn't mean she was right. She was right that Shaun was into Leah, but not necessarily about Leah. I think part of the reason Shaun is so upset about Leah is he doesn't want to process what happened with Carly, but I guess the show wants to focus on Leah.

I was not a fan of Shaun taking the bat and threatening to destroy Leah's car.  I don't like violent outbursts and violence on a car is not okay just because it isn't a person. If I was Leah I wouldn't even want to be his friend after that. I also thought the patient's girlfriend was wrong for doing the same thing, and it is unfortunate Shaun didn't witness her having any consequences for "feeling better."

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Shaun kind of turned into Norman Bates there for a second!  It's crazy how intense Freddie Highmore can be, when the time calls for it.  I guess that's acting for y'all!

But, yeah, it would be the understatement of the century to say that Shaun is not handing this well at all.  I guess it makes some sense, because it's his first foray into love, and that can admittedly be a rough road.  But everything he did was awful.  Disrespectful to Melendez.  Dismissive towards his patient.  Unsupportive to Claire.  And then all of this with Lea.  She certainly isn't a perfect person and even some of the insults might have been technically accurate (flaky and so forth.)  But what he did was cruel, and she didn't deserve it.  For right reasons or wrong ones, she just doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship with Shaun, and that's her right.  Him being a dick is totally uncalled for.  And, yeah, the optics of him swinging that bat around was not a good look.  I know he would never physically harm her, but I was really worried he was accidentally going to fling the bat or something, and conk her like that.  Dude really needs some anger management classes and his own therapist, since, with respect, Glassman ain't getting the job here.

On the flip side, I did like how Melendez handled all of it.  Remained professional, but clearly let Shaun know when he was being out of line, and even drop some hard truths about how he can be out of a job, if he doesn't get his act together.

I'm admittedly clueless about these things, but even though Claire/Shaun's patient was a jerky lech, I would imagine he could still sue that woman for the property damage and win.  I imagine there are cameras in the parking lot, and if not, Claire and Shaun could be called as witnesses, and even though I doubt they were impressed with his cheating ways, I don't see either of them lying on the stand.

Reznick admits that she has arthritis to Lim and is prepared to step down and pursue another field, but then... she changes her mind.  Yeah, this is going to end well!

Park didn't have much to do here, but I did like that his recommendation to Shaun was to take some kind of fight class.  Have a feeling that's Park's recommendation for a lot of things!  Break-up?  Fight class!  Water value breaks?  Fight class!  Superbowl or Oscars don't go your way?  Fight class!  Fight class solves everything!

And... Claire admits she has feelings for Melendez.  Sigh.

Still not happy that Carly's just been pushed to the sidelines, now that the Lea drama is happening.  Even if they can't find an actual storyline for her, I'm at least curious to know what she is thinking seeing or hearing about Shaun spiraling like he is.

[TurtlePower]

I’m glad Shaun told Lea off—for how she treated him, she had it coming. It must have been scary for Shaun to stand up for himself and Lea probably wasn’t expecting that.  

What a dilemma Claire has. I didn’t care for her current interest, there’s no chemistry there. 

[tennisgurl]

Can we please just put the nail in the coffin for Shaun's love life? At least for the foreseeable future? Its just so much needless drama, and the ending was just so cruel, in a way that Shaun normally isnt. He can be blunt in a way that comes off as rude sometimes, but not usually out of any malice, he just doesent have much of a filter. What went on with Lea at the end was just so mean, that its hard to imagine them moving forward even as friends now. I am glad he didnt wreck her car, but what he said to her might actually be worse. The romance stuff started out really promising with Carly, but then it did what so many shows do, and will always end in things turning into crap: The show is suddenly overtaken by a boring love triangle where pretty much everyone involved has to become an asshole in the name of DRAMA and I end up wishing that not only do none of these people get together, but that they never even make eye contact again, as they clearly bring out the absolute worst in each other. And by "they"I clearly mean the plot, because all of this seems to exist just for DRAMA, and not the drama that happens because of naturally occurring character dynamics, but because shows think that people love watching people be mean and jealous and petty because I guess thats what love does. 

The cases of the week were decently interesting at least. It was nice of Lim to give Morgan one last cool surgery to do, even if I spent most of it nervous that she would get some shakes and hurt the guy. So now she is just going to keep doing surgeries and get this procedure? Well at least people know now so she presumably wont be putting people in danger because she wont admit that she has a medical issue. At least Glassman was there to tell Morgan how dumb she was being. 

[possibilities]

I have not seen any evidence that Lim needs a mentor and I'm irritated that they diminished her by saying she does all of a sudden.

[bros402]

17 hours ago, milner said:

I think this show is doing a real disservice to people on the autism spectrum, especially high functioning ones like Shaun is supposed to be.  He acts like a spoiled brat.  Regardless of his difficulties  he should have been at least suspended if not fired.  I am so tired of this whole plot line. The entire show has become a huge soap opera. Let’s get back to medicine. 

The longer it is on, the lower Shaun's functioning seems to get.

I think he should have been suspended and required to attend therapy before returning to work.

16 hours ago, AriAu said:

How much work will it take Dr. Toby to get Shawn into therapy?

 

Probably take a court order at this point - or a genuine ultimatum from Melendez or Lim. Glassman should've continued to try to force it upon him in Season 1 - audition therapists for him, have them meet him at work, or during his lunch, find the ideal place for Shaun to have it in his schedule - even if it were at home after work.

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

And wasn't the first drug working okay, it just had side effects. Obviously not a good long term solution but it seems like there are other things to try. I get how hard it must be for her though, to know what you love and not be able to do it really sucks.

Yup, she was having nausea from the MTX, which brought back lovely memories for me (I did it as oral chemo 1x weekly for 2 years)

[TurtlePower]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Can we please just put the nail in the coffin for Shaun's love life? At least for the foreseeable future? Its just so much needless drama, and the ending was just so cruel, in a way that Shaun normally isnt. He can be blunt in a way that comes off as rude sometimes, but not usually out of any malice, he just doesent have much of a filter. What went on with Lea at the end was just so mean, that its hard to imagine them moving forward even as friends now. I am glad he didnt wreck her car, but what he said to her might actually be worse. The romance stuff started out really promising with Carly, but then it did what so many shows do, and will always end in things turning into crap: The show is suddenly overtaken by a boring love triangle where pretty much everyone involved has to become an asshole in the name of DRAMA and I end up wishing that not only do none of these people get together, but that they never even make eye contact again, as they clearly bring out the absolute worst in each other. And by "they"I clearly mean the plot, because all of this seems to exist just for DRAMA, and not the drama that happens because of naturally occurring character dynamics, but because shows think that people love watching people be mean and jealous and petty because I guess thats what love does. 

The cases of the week were decently interesting at least. It was nice of Lim to give Morgan one last cool surgery to do, even if I spent most of it nervous that she would get some shakes and hurt the guy. So now she is just going to keep doing surgeries and get this procedure? Well at least people know now so she presumably wont be putting people in danger because she wont admit that she has a medical issue. At least Glassman was there to tell Morgan how dumb she was being. 

I’m a little over Shaun’s relationships as well. I was angry with Lea for how she treats Shaun, however. She did lead him on for a time, even making Shaun feel like she didn’t care that he was autistic. Then all of a sudden, it matters to her. Maybe Shaun went a little overboard, but Lea IS selfish and flaky and I’ll add one—a liar. She lied to Shaun and made him feel accepted when in fact his autism bothered Lea. I never would have spoken to her ever again and wouldn’t have had the stones to do what Shaun did (so glad he didn’t smash her car, that was a terrible idea for Shaun to borrow from a neurotypical). I was liking Lea this season, too, and thought she accepted Shaun the way he is. Guess not.

I didn’t care for Carly for some reason, either. The show can drift from the relationship difficulties any time (though it was interesting to see them tackle the subject—at first). 

Edited March 11, 2020 by TurtlePower

[vibeology]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

I have not seen any evidence that Lim needs a mentor and I'm irritated that they diminished her by saying she does all of a sudden.

That scene bugged me. I wish instead of mentor, they had gone with sounding board. Lim needing Andrews for guidance is icky. Lim sometimes wanting to talk out complex issues with a trusted colleague who has experience in the role however is reasonable and responsible. 

[statsgirl]

But if they had gone with sounding board, while more acceptable socially, it wouldn't have worked as well as a scene.

Andrews needed to check that Lim was pushing for that surgery for the right reasons and not because she wanted to show her Chief chops, and Lim needed to check that Andrews was responding the way he does because he's having trouble not being Chief any more.

[CarpeFelis]

2 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

I’m a little over Shaun’s relationships as well. I was angry with Lea for how she treats Shaun, however. She did lead him on for a time, even making Shaun feel like she didn’t care that he was autistic. Then all of a sudden, it matters to her. Maybe Shaun went a little overboard, but Lea IS selfish and flaky and I’ll add one—a liar. She lied to Shaun and made him feel accepted when in fact his autism bothered Lea. I never would have spoken to her ever again and wouldn’t have had the stones to do what Shaun did (so glad he didn’t smash her car, that was a terrible idea for Shaun to borrow from a neurotypical). I was liking Lea this season, too, and thought she accepted Shaun the way he is. Guess not.

I didn’t care for Carly for some reason, either. The show can drift from the relationship difficulties any time (though it was interesting to see them tackle the subject—at first). 

I can’t believe I’m about to defend Lea because she’s my least favorite character and MOST of what Shaun said to her was true — cruel, and he shouldn’t have said it, but mostly true. That said, I don’t think she had any trouble accepting autism in her friend. It’s when her friend wanted to be a romantic partner that she balked. It wasn’t even necessarily about his autism per se but that it manifests in him as quirks that make him really difficult to live with for someone with her clashing set of quirks. Same would be true if he were a neurotypical person who had to have everything just so.

Even though I for one REALLY dislike Lea, I thought it was hitting way below the belt when Shaun threw in “no one likes you”. How the hell does he know? Has he met everyone she knows? (Maybe I’m just seeing this through a dirty lens/personal hot button. I had an abusive parent who loved to tell me “no one will ever like you”. That was projection and not about me at all, but that’s adult me talking. Kid me believed it.)

[beyondthezone]

4 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

I’m a little over Shaun’s relationships as well. I was angry with Lea for how she treats Shaun, however. She did lead him on for a time, even making Shaun feel like she didn’t care that he was autistic. Then all of a sudden, it matters to her. Maybe Shaun went a little overboard, but Lea IS selfish and flaky and I’ll add one—a liar. She lied to Shaun and made him feel accepted when in fact his autism bothered Lea. I never would have spoken to her ever again and wouldn’t have had the stones to do what Shaun did (so glad he didn’t smash her car, that was a terrible idea for Shaun to borrow from a neurotypical). I was liking Lea this season, too, and thought she accepted Shaun the way he is. Guess not.

I didn’t care for Carly for some reason, either. The show can drift from the relationship difficulties any time (though it was interesting to see them tackle the subject—at first). 

I dont get it.... when did Lea lead him on? Their kiss from when she left was over 2 seasons ago and they moved in together on the firm understanding that nothing could happen between them. Lea has since been an accommodating and supportive friend to Shaun.

Dealing with his quirks, helping him during Glassman's Cancer, teaching him to drive, pancakes before his new job , supporting him through his father's death even moving out to help his relationship with Carly. 

It's sad that Shaun was rejected but that doesn't make it Lea's fault. His autism is part of who he is, and it invariable affects his behaviour (especially in relationships) therefore it's perfectly valid for Lea to decide that it's a non-starter for a romantic relationship. 

As far as Lea's faults in being flaky and selfish-she is well aware of them. Shaun's behaviour was entitled, threatening and scary and honestly warranted a police call. Just because cute Shaun did it doesnt make it okay

Edited March 11, 2020 by beyondthezone

[Fable]

25 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

And besides he kicked her out of the apartment all because Carly wanted him too. He is hardly a good friend himself. 

Yes and after begging her to move in.  Then he gets involved with Carly, tells her she needs to leave (which she does with a lot more grace than I probably could have mustered), after which he decides he is actually in love with her and now wants to be a couple, only to threaten her with violence when she doesn’t reciprocate.  Yet he calls her flaky and selfish…HA!  Physician, heal thyself! 

[rmontro]

Shaun's rant against Lea was way over the top, but in a way he was just doing what Dr. Glassman told him to do, listing all the bad points about her.  I'm getting a little sick of every episode ending with Lea coming out of work only to find Shaun stalking her.  If she had reported him for his little bat episode, he might have gotten into real trouble or even lost his job.  I was afraid at one point he might even hit her with it.

I was expecting him to get with that girlfriend of the patient who smashed up his car.  Shaun even asked him if he was going to attempt to get back with her.  Obviously he has a soft spot for impulsive, free spirited women.  Sometimes opposites do attract.

I could not stand Glassman the first two seasons, but I've actually come around to tolerating him now.  He's still annoying at times, but he's also serving as a voice of reason.

[rmontro]

48 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

I don't think Glassman meant for him to tell her let alone shout it at her with a baseball bat in his hand threatening violence against her car!

No, certainly not.  I didn't mean to imply that if you thought I did.  He was just talking about making a list lol.

You make a good point that Shaun himself is impulsive, you're right, I hadn't considered that.  I was thinking of his routined, orderly side.

By the way, I thought Shaun was going to have one of his medical epiphanies when he was watching that girl smashing up the car.

[rmontro]

Shaun kept saying that the surgery for the little person patient was a mistake and he shouldn't agree to it because he would probably end up paralyzed.  I was really worried that was going to be the outcome, just because Shaun is the lead character and the writers were going to make him be right. 

[Belle Fleures]

I've never really been a fan of Carly, so I didn't like she and Shawn being together as a couple.

I liked Lea. She's fun and a "seize the moment" kind of girl, very outgoing, and she's good for Shawn. She gets him to break out of his rigidness and experience life in a broader sense than he has, and it's exhilerating, and he loves it, while he, when they're together, has a way of balancing out all that wildness that she exudes. I thought that they completed each other. However, Lea has been shown toying with Shawn. For his part, Shawn didn't see things until others pointed them out to him. Morgan saw Lea being possessive of Shawn, and Carly saw that Lea, as well as Shawn, had feelings for each other. 

Lea really is very selfish and immature. She clearly has feelings for Shawn but she doesn't feel he is worth the trouble of dealing with her own issues or changing her bad habits to enter a romantic relationship with him. Yet, despite that, she still behaves like a dog marking a fire hydrant every time she comes in contact with him. Everyone wants to say that it's simply Shawn's fault that he can't take 'no' for an answer, but fail to address that Lea had been sending him mixed signals for a while. Being autistic, he has a harder time processing these complexities. Now he's hurting, and it makes perfect sense that he should be allowed to tell the person who did the hurting exactly how he feels about it -- sans baseball hat, of course.

I no longer want Lea and Shawn to be a couple but, since season 1, have seen Shawn and Claire being romantically involved as a possibility. In fact, what if after all this, they both realise after all their failed relationships, that they were always meant to be together? The fact that Claire was the only one to go see Shawn after he'd been missing work to give him the "enough is enough" speech and nudge him back into life tells me a lot. Or when he was fired previously and Claire was the only friend to have his back. Just friends? Maybe, but there's definitely room for something more. Claire, oftentimes, "gets" him. She's not only beautiful but sympathetic, patient, kind, and has a great capacity for understanding people.

[CarpeFelis]

53 minutes ago, Belle Fleures said:

However, Lea has been shown toying with Shawn. For his part, Shawn didn't see things until others pointed them out to him. Morgan saw Lea being possessive of Shawn, and Carly saw that Lea, as well as Shawn, had feelings for each other. 

Lea really is very selfish and immature. She clearly has feelings for Shawn but she doesn't feel he is worth the trouble of dealing with her own issues or changing her bad habits to enter a romantic relationship with him. Yet, despite that, she still behaves like a dog marking a fire hydrant every time she comes in contact with him. Everyone wants to say that it's simply Shawn's fault that he can't take 'no' for an answer, but fail to address that Lea had been sending him mixed signals for a while.

I agree with most of what you’re saying here except the part about Lea having real feelings for Shaun. I see the “dog marking a fire hydrant” behaviors as more of an ego thing — and as far as I can recall, that didn’t start until Shaun had a girlfriend. She strikes me as one of those women who have to have the attention of every man in the room, even the ones she doesn’t really want, and most especially the ones who are already taken, because then she “wins”. (Notice also that like the type of woman I’m describing, she doesn’t seem to have any girlfriends to hang out with.)

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Belle Fleures said:

I've never really been a fan of Carly, so I didn't like she and Shawn being together as a couple.

I liked Lea. She's fun and a "seize the moment" kind of girl, very outgoing, and she's good for Shawn. She gets him to break out of his rigidness and experience life in a broader sense than he has, and it's exhilerating, and he loves it, while he, when they're together, has a way of balancing out all that wildness that she exudes. I thought that they completed each other. However, Lea has been shown toying with Shawn. For his part, Shawn didn't see things until others pointed them out to him. Morgan saw Lea being possessive of Shawn, and Carly saw that Lea, as well as Shawn, had feelings for each other. 

Lea really is very selfish and immature. She clearly has feelings for Shawn but she doesn't feel he is worth the trouble of dealing with her own issues or changing her bad habits to enter a romantic relationship with him. Yet, despite that, she still behaves like a dog marking a fire hydrant every time she comes in contact with him. Everyone wants to say that it's simply Shawn's fault that he can't take 'no' for an answer, but fail to address that Lea had been sending him mixed signals for a while. Being autistic, he has a harder time processing these complexities. Now he's hurting, and it makes perfect sense that he should be allowed to tell the person who did the hurting exactly how he feels about it -- sans baseball hat, of course.

I no longer want Lea and Shawn to be a couple but, since season 1, have seen Shawn and Claire being romantically involved as a possibility. In fact, what if after all this, they both realise after all their failed relationships, that they were always meant to be together? The fact that Claire was the only one to go see Shawn after he'd been missing work to give him the "enough is enough" speech and nudge him back into life tells me a lot. Or when he was fired previously and Claire was the only friend to have his back. Just friends? Maybe, but there's definitely room for something more. Claire, oftentimes, "gets" him. She's not only beautiful but sympathetic, patient, kind, and has a great capacity for understanding people.

I thought they would go in this direction for a minute too, but then I realized they were not going to let 

[Prower]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:40 AM, KaveDweller said:

And wasn't the first drug working okay, it just had side effects. Obviously not a good long term solution but it seems like there are other things to try. I get how hard it must be for her though, to know what you love and not be able to do it really sucks.

The first drug worked great. The only problem was nausea. You'd think they could wait a few weeks, see if the sideffect subsides on its own, if that doesn't work, try a related drug, or if all else fails, manage the nausea with a different drug.

It's often the case with severe illnesses, that you have to manage a drugs sideeffect with other drugs. As long as it works and doesn't cause any other bad sideeffects, no biggy.

You'd certainly try all of that before you go to "Imma gonna go and cut out all of my joints, ya'll!". I'm with @Suzysite . Who writes this shit?