Season 19 Spoiler Thread

[FireFoxy]

I second that UGH. GO AWAYYYY!

[CindyBee]

I totally agree that the fact that Chris is going to be on DWTS with a Whitney means he is engaged to the other Whitney.   Cause you know ABC/producers love stuff like that!

 

I actually have felt that he made up his mind way back on that first date with Whitney, when they crashed the wedding and the rest has been all filler.  

[Bella]

In other news, RS is now saying that it looks like Kaitlyn is being set up as the next Bachelorette.

 

He also has a poll for who should be the next Bachelorette. At the moment, the voting is Kaitlyn 62%, Other 20%, and Britt 18%. Not that TPTB will pay attention to it, and it's not a scientifically valid poll, but it's a poll for those of us who like polls.

[Padma]

Kaitlyn's fun and energetic and they obviously would bring back Kimmel which was my favorite episode of the season. (Maybe CH could take a much needed vacation). She has been looking increasingly pretty throughout the season, including last night. However, my least favorite TBettes have been where the lead really doesn't "ping" the guys' interest--doesn't really say, "trophy gf" like Emily or Trista.  Unfortunately, I think Kaitlyn is in that category. 

[Alapaki]

When Kaitlyn was leaving the RC, it looked like Becca reached out to "comfort" her, or whatever. You can catch a glimpse of Kaitlyn literally physically repelling her, but the camera cut away immediately

When I saw that I thought they might be trying to protective way Kaitlyn came across because they were planning on naming her the next Bachelorette

[chocolatine]

When Kaitlyn was leaving the RC, it looked like Becca reached out to "comfort" her, or whatever. You can catch a glimpse of Kaitlyn literally physically repelling her, but the camera cut away immediately

When I saw that I thought they might be trying to protective way Kaitlyn came across because they were planning on naming her the next Bachelorette

 

 

I saw that too, but I wondered if it was because of the "nothing but handholding" policy of the temple grounds CH emphasized before the RC. Maybe Kaitlyn thought that meant that even hugging the other women was off limits.

Edited February 25, 2015 by chocolatine

[Luckylondon]

Wow. Chris really riilllly can't dance though! I know that many can't dance and they learn and do their best and it is fun. Sean was painful but he was a little adorable at times in how he earnestly tried. Regardless of feelings about him, he was a bit of an awkward lug that worked very hard to learn steps and frame and depending on the dance it was generally awkward but sweet. Chris is much bigger and clunkier, less flexible looking -- he is like a solid brick with feet and head. I give him credit if he tries.

[NikSac]

Well, he did manage to learn the waltz and manage not to fall off the postage stamp sized dance floor on that Cinderella date, so maybe he'll do okay. At least for a week or two. I think it'll be funny to watch him on DWTS if he does make it.

[saber5055]

When Kaitlyn was leaving the RC, it looked like Becca reached out to "comfort" her, or whatever. You can catch a glimpse of Kaitlyn literally physically repelling her, but the camera cut away immediately

 

 

I saw that as the ending of Kaitlyn and the other two b-ettes doing their hugs and goodbyes. They were not shown, and we just got a glimpse of the ending of one, not one trying to begin, as Kaitlyn started her walk out. That was my take on it anyway.

 

Chris obviously isn't actually -needed- on the farm.

 

 

It's gonna be a long time before the three feet of snow and ice melt and the ground is warm enough to plow/plant after five solid months of -20 temps in Arlington. Chris will be long gone voted off DWTS by then, just in time to fire up that John Deere.

 

Kaitlyn as the first EVAH! potty mouth b-ette! They can get all kinds of Disco Guys to sign up for her season. I'm in!

Edited February 25, 2015 by saber5055

[FireFoxy]

Jillian and Emily were huge potty mouths too according to BTS scoop. They just edited it out.

[Padma]

When Kaitlyn was leaving the RC, it looked like Becca reached out to "comfort" her, or whatever. You can catch a glimpse of Kaitlyn literally physically repelling her, but the camera cut away immediately

When I saw that I thought they might be trying to protective way Kaitlyn came across because they were planning on naming her the next Bachelorette

In this article today, Kaitlyn says Becca and Whitney are both "great women" and her "best friends in the house". She loves Whitney and thinks she's totally committed to Chris, but she is even more complimentary of Becca "so cool and funny." (funny!!!)

 

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/bachelor-chris-soules-eliminated-women-weigh-final-two-002500914-us-weekly.html

[Treebeard]

In this article today, Kaitlyn says Becca and Whitney are both "great women" and her "best friends in the house". She loves Whitney and thinks she's totally committed to Chris, but she is even more complimentary of Becca "so cool and funny." (funny!!!)

 

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/bachelor-chris-soules-eliminated-women-weigh-final-two-002500914-us-weekly.html

Not surprised.  Not only do many people act differently in front of cameras, TPTB edit the shit out of this show.  I bet a lot of these girls are totally different in real life.  Ashley I., for one, seemed totally normal and cool on Kimmel.

[Stella MD]

Ugh to the DwtS reveal. Since he manages to have has sweat running down his nose just from sitting down, I imagine they'll need a special janitor to mop up after his performance each week. Poor Witney.

[Wings]

According to the photos on social media this weekend, after Women Tell All was filmed on Saturday, Kaitlyn was there in a lot of photos.  Meaning she was at the show and they allowed the info that she's let go in tonight's episode to get out.  Sloppy work, producers!  

 

 

For quite a few seasons now, production does not seem to care much about leaks on social media.  They used to have strict rules for FB way before twitter and instagram.  I think they just gave up.  It has not effected the ratings and those who watch unspoiled don't care enough to go looking for them. 

[lulee]

For quite a few seasons now, production does not seem to care much about leaks on social media.  They used to have strict rules for FB way before twitter and instagram.  I think they just gave up.  It has not effected the ratings and those who watch unspoiled don't care enough to go looking for them. 

Additionally, I bet they're assuming - and probably right - that most viewers of the show don't think super hard about it and may not have made the connection between timing of appearance on the WTA and someone's dismissal from the show.

[lulee]

That award would go to Bachelorette Jillian from Canada.  As she was standing on the final rose podium wearing her beautiful dress in her gorgeous surroundings waiting for Ed she clearly said with a little laugh - "Ed better not fu**ing let me down."

And he didn't ... until he did.

[saber5055]

From Padma's link:

The so-called "Prince Farming" told Us that he's still with his chosen winner and that they're "working on establishing a relationship outside of this crazy world."

 

Kimmel needed to bring a "crazy" dollar-per-word jar for Chris's private use. Everything is "crazy" to him. Although I do agree, the idea of his being TB and on DWTS is, indeed, "crazy."

[Lamb18]

 

From Padma's link:

The so-called "Prince Farming" told Us that he's still with his chosen winner and that they're "working on establishing a relationship outside of this crazy world."

Kimmel needed to bring a "crazy" dollar-per-word jar for Chris's private use. Everything is "crazy" to him. Although I do agree, the idea of his being TB and on DWTS is, indeed, "crazy."

Maybe they will settle on Mars.

[chocolatine]

Now that Chris will almost certainly be on DWTS, Britt is probably kicking herself for overplaying her hand and getting eliminated. Just think, all that opportunity to mug for the cameras while sitting in the front row, rub elbows with D-list celebrities, and over-emote in talking heads about Chris - she'd have eaten that up with a spoon. Having missed out on that, AND with her Bachelorette chances getting slimmer every day, it looks like the only opportunity for her to continue fame-whoring will be BiP. 

[Lamb18]

Watch, Britt will try out for Worst Cooks in America. (I think it would be a little funny to see her on Anne Burrell's team.)

[Canada]

Chris wants to leave this crazy world of fame whoredom by doing DWTS?  How does that work?

[saber5055]

Chris wants to leave this crazy world of fame whoredom by doing DWTS?  How does that work?

 

Ha ha! Best post evah. I'm sure Kelsey has a Big Word for that kind of thinking.

Now that Chris will almost certainly be on DWTS, Britt is probably kicking herself for overplaying her hand and getting eliminated.

 

 

I know, right? She should have studied how this show works. Get to F1, make all the talk-show appearances, then get a front-row seat and mega close ups at DWTS, plus she could have acted in all those extra scenes of going to rehearsals with Chris and Witney ... it could have been her golden moment. 

 

Because actually getting married and actually moving anywhere away from Hollywood isn't going to happen anyway. You just ride out the "amazing journey," then go splitsville six months later. Which, BTW, will get you more tab coverage! Then you go to TB reunions and on BIP and get more tab coverage! It woulda been a win-win for you, Britt.

 

Maybe Stockholm Syndrome makes people forget how TB really works. Britt did seem to lose her concentration there at the end.

Edited February 25, 2015 by saber5055

[lulee]

Or maybe casting directors should take note that Britt may have difficulty remembering the plot.

[JenE4]

Maybe they will settle on Mars.

That's not much more isolated than Arlington.

And fear not, Britt fans. I bet we'll see her on Bachelor in Paradise.

[Shugardrawers]

That award would go to Bachelorette Jillian from Canada.  As she was standing on the final rose podium wearing her beautiful dress in her gorgeous surroundings waiting for Ed she clearly said with a little laugh - "Ed better not fu**ing let me down."

 

Well Ed certainly let her down in the FS when "little Ed" would not make an appearance!

[Padma]

From Wet Paint regarding the Women Tell All time between Chris S and Kaitlyn:

That probably will do well to set her up as sympathetic for being the Bachelorette.

Really, Chris? You took two women to the Fantasy Suite, told each you were "falling in love with her", had sex with at least one of them, and then based the elimination on a coin toss?

 

That is so insensitive and insulting. Not like I should have expected anything more of him after what we've seen throughout the season. He is even more of a d-bag than Juan Pablo, in my eyes. At least Juan Pablo never talked about "being in love" and never told a woman, "I got rid of you on a coin flip."

 

There've been bad bachelors in the past, but imo Chris--so dull, but such a self-centered tool, too--is one of the worst.

[Padma]

Oh, you're probably both right that "coin toss" was just Chris speaking metaphorically. (Which, considering it's Chris, is pretty funny in itself).

 

But I still find the idea of sleeping with two women and telling both "I'm falling in love with you" (without the other knowing you were saying it to anyone else), then making the choice to send one of them home "like a coin toss", very rude and dismissive. Does he have any idea at all what "falling in love with" someone is supposed to mean? At a minimum, it means some personal feelings, empathy, care, pleasure in their company, desire to protect and not hurt them...yadda yadda.

 

The more I see of Chris, the less I am able to find anything likeable about him at all. Juan Pablo even looks better and better because, dim as he was, too (also sexist and lacking in interest or empathy for the women he was banging), I think he was far more honest than Chris with them, even given the constraints of the show.

[JenE4]

Yeah, this source of this article, who I presume is one of the typically sobbing/hooting/hollering/aghast audience members, seems to have taken this quote way out of context. Her/his take on it:

 

“I can only imagine what the winner is going to think,” the insider states, “when she learns that he’s marrying her because a coin landed on tails!”

 

That clearly wouldn't be my interpretation as the winner or for the winner. To me that says that the winner is so clearly The One that it was no contest and that's why it didn't matter to Chris who was the runner up. I almost wonder, actually, whether the producers were the "coin" in this case. Ok, if it doesn't matter to YOU, then WE think Kaitlyn would make a better Bachelorette than Becca, so send her home third. But now I'm speculating out of nowhere! Yet, while I'm at it, I assumed that the metaphorical coin toss was between Becca and Kaitlyn, not between Kaitlyn and Whitney, as speculated above. Chris said enough things this last episode (such as "I could send home Becca or Kaitlyn. [long pause] Or even Whitney!") that lead me to believe that it's all Whitney all the way. I think he had enough doubts about Becca--and STILL had doubts about her after speaking with her because she was STILL pretty indecisive on not understanding her feelings and not moving to Arlington unless they're truly in love. So after that talk he was probably still pretty sure about Becca and Kaitlyn. But if he cared enough about Becca to go to the trouble of trying to coax some feelings out of her, then maybe he cared about her a little bit more than Kaitlyn. It also seems like they had a good night, and he also had a good night with Kaitlyn. But Becca had a morning like Andi did with Juan Pablo...things were good until I woke up and realized they weren't! And if Becca left in the morning on a bad note, I could see why he'd want to talk it through and try to clear it up with her before deciding between her and Kaitlyn.

Edited February 26, 2015 by JenE4

[Alapaki]

But I still find the idea of sleeping with two women and telling both "I'm falling in love with you" (without the other knowing you were saying it to anyone else), then making the choice to send one of them home "like a coin toss", very rude and dismissive

 

 

I agree with JenE4 that the "coin toss", such as it was, was probably not between Whitney and Kaitlyn, (i.e. two women possibly slept with) but between Kaitlyn and Becca for second place.

 

But I do agree that Chris is pretty much at Juan-Pablo-levels of emotional indifference to these women.  I don't hold that against Chris.  But I resent the show letting Chris get away with it because he can be phony enough to give lip-service to "the journey" and "finding my wife in that room", while shitting on JP for all but admitting he was only there for the travel and the tail.

[backformore]

Here's another thought on the coin toss -   some decisions can be made logically, from a pros and cons perspective.   Big decisions are made emotionally - "from the gut", or from a subconscious level.  A technique to access that gut feeling, is this -  get a coin, say heads it will be A, tails B.  Then toss the coin in the air, and listen to what your subconscious is telling you - in most instances it will be " Heads"  or "Tails"  .  How the coin lands is irrelevant, it's your gut level reaction to the coin toss makes the decision. 

It's possible that Chris was advised to toss a coin, and listen to his gut.  

 

WIth that said, I agree that the "winner'  decision was already made, and the choice of F2 could have gone either way. 

[saber5055]

metaphorically

 

Ha. A Kelsey word if we ever saw one. Maybe she will log in and tell us what it means. That is, if she can see this board from way up there.

 

I agree Chris is completely dullsville. At least we didn't find out Juan Pablo was a d*ck until almost the end of his season, and then that was all producer-induced, the Andi sobfest and making public what he told Claire on the helicopter. I didn't have any problem with JP at all, and whatever blowback the show got is Fleiss's fault for picking white JP to fill the minority TB slot he was pressured to fill. Reap what ye sow, Fleiss.

 

I'd rather see JP tell all the women "Ess okay" than Chris tell them ... nothing. Just subject us to his deep sighs and non-tears when he has to make the most DRAMATIC send home ever.

 

from the gut

 

 

I hate that term, and it's used constantly on this show and others. All it does is remind me what you do to a deer when you shoot it, or where the scope goes when you have a colonoscopy. Guts are intestines. If the love I feel for someone is down there, more's the pity for that person. *burp*

[Mu Shu]

Ha. A Kelsey word if we ever saw one. Maybe she will log in and tell us what it means. That is, if she can see this board from way up there.

 

I agree Chris is completely dullsville. At least we didn't find out Juan Pablo was a d*ck until almost the end of his season, and then that was all producer-induced, the Andi sobfest and making public what he told Claire on the helicopter. I didn't have any problem with JP at all, and whatever blowback the show got is Fleiss's fault for picking white JP to fill the minority TB slot he was pressured to fill. Reap what ye sow, Fleiss.

 

I'd rather see JP tell all the women "Ess okay" than Chris tell them ... nothing. Just subject us to his deep sighs and non-tears when he has to make the most DRAMATIC send home ever.

 

I hate that term, and it's used constantly on this show and others. All it does is remind me what you do to a deer when you shoot it, or where the scope goes when you have a colonoscopy. Guts are intestines. If the love I feel for someone is down there, more's the pity for that person. *burp*

Well, for a Bachelor, Chris has quite a gut, so he may as well listen to it.   God, those deep sighs.   I have PTSD from trying to avoid them.    There are just too many.     Chris is such an eyeore.

[saber5055]

Chris has quite a gut,

 

 

In Chris's defense, he does not look nine-months pregnant like 90 percent of the "farmers" on FarmersOnly.com. There's "guts," and then there are "GUTS!"

 

Does anyone know if Kelsey is going to be on WTA? 

Edited February 27, 2015 by saber5055

[TheFinalRose]

At least we didn't find out Juan Pablo was a d*ck until almost the end of his season, and then that was all producer-induced, the Andi sobfest and making public what he told Claire on the helicopter.

 

 

Except JP threw sheep poo at the girls in the middle of the season and that raised a lot of red flags.  

 

I like Kaitlyn! I like her looks, and she actually has a personality.  She'll be a fun lead.

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Rhondinella
spoiler tags

[NikSac]

I highly doubt that he said that he literally "flipped a coin", although if he did, I think Juan Pablo deserves an apology from someone.

 

If Chris actually did flip a coin, I for one owe Juan Pablo an apology for calling him the worst Bachelor ever.

 

I think you're right he probably meant he could see a future with either, but if he actually flipped a coin? Wow.

[looksee]

Even though Jillian wasn't the prettiest girl ever,

This confused me cuz the Jillian I know from Canadian tv is quite pretty and wouldn't have trouble with guys falling for her. I had to see what she looked like as the Bachelorette....Yup she definitely had work done. Sadly she said it was online bullying that made her get the nose job :(

[FireFoxy]

This confused me cuz the Jillian I know from Canadian tv is quite pretty and wouldn't have trouble with guys falling for her. I had to see what she looked like as the Bachelorette....Yup she definitely had work done. Sadly she said it was online bullying that made her get the nose job :(

 

Jillian wasn't drop dead gorgeous during her season but to me she was so pretty. She actually looked better during Jason's season. I think they did something to her hair and makeup during her B'ette stint that messed with her looks, just like they gave Ali those hideous extensions to go with her nasty personality. But she was so charming, smart and fun that the guys ended up falling for her, except that douche she picked. #TeamReid

 

I still can't believe Whitney quit the job she loved for this dumbass. They'll probably last too since she seems willing to change her personality for him. 

[lulee]

Jillian wasn't drop dead gorgeous during her season but to me she was so pretty. She actually looked better during Jason's season. I think they did something to her hair and makeup during her B'ette stint that messed with her looks, just like they gave Ali those hideous extensions to go with her nasty personality. But she was so charming, smart and fun that the guys ended up falling for her, except that douche she picked. #TeamReid

 

I still can't believe Whitney quit the job she loved for this dumbass. They'll probably last too since she seems willing to change her personality for him. 

Reality Steve said sometime earlier this week that Whitney had taken a job at another clinic in the Chicago area. It could be a short-term or something she could do from home (I don't remember what it was exactly, but it sounded like something that could involve less direct contact with patients) or she's not so keen on moving to Arlington. Of course, between comments from Chris' s family during Andi's season and this one, his tune has changed. So who knows how intent he really is about staying in Arlington.

[Shugardrawers]

Just being handsome/pretty does NOT make you a good TB or TBette

[Bugs Meany]

Just being handsome/pretty does NOT make you a good TB or TBette

 

But it does make the contestants much more interested in winning, which does matter. Like it or not, Britt would have been considered more of a prize--the kind of beauty they couldn't have met in their own cities. She would have raised the stakes for the guys.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bugs Meany

[truthaboutluv]

I think that's an assumption though. Yes, Britt is hot but people are attracted to different things. Some guys prefer blondes to brunettes so maybe Britt, a brunette would not be appealing to them; some guys shockingly yes prefer women with more natural looks versus a cake full of makeup on their face which is also not Britt. Not to mention Britt is also pretty short, now I think her height added to her cuteness factor where she had this doll like quality but some guys like tall, leggy women so Britt wouldn't appeal to them. The idea that Britt being the Bachelorette would have guaranteed this rush of guys madly desiring and wanting her is huge speculation in my opinion seemingly based on one's own personal attraction towards Britt.

 

Despite all the talk about how much the guys were into Emily or whoever else, I have watched more season of the Bachelorette than the Bachelor and in my opinion, pretty much every season had a pattern - the guys who are so clearly in the friend zone fairly early on and know it and just hang around because it's a cool vacation and they make some great friends and then there are maybe five guys the Bachelorette is genuinely attracted to. And by the middle of the season, there are two she is genuinely torn between, though most times, I feel with the Bachelorette, by the end it is really one guy that they know is who they want and the season just drags along to the inevitable end.

So in saying that I cannot believe that there won't be at least five guys in that bunch that would be genuinely attracted to Kaitlyn who she will also be genuinely attracted to

. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Rhondinella
spoiler tags

[Padma]

Jillian wasn't drop dead gorgeous during her season but to me she was so pretty. She actually looked better during Jason's season. I think they did something to her hair and makeup during her B'ette stint that messed with her looks, just like they gave Ali those hideous extensions to go with her nasty personality. But she was so charming, smart and fun that the guys ended up falling for her, except that douche she picked. #TeamReid

 

I still can't believe Whitney quit the job she loved for this dumbass. They'll probably last too since she seems willing to change her personality for him. 

I thought Jillian was one of the prettiest b-ettes they've had. Great personality, too. I was so disappointed to see her after all that plastic surgery. I guess she's happier with herself now, but to me she now looks completely generic and forgettable, where before she was unique and kind of "sparkly".   (Also Team Reid here. She let a good one get away, but "the heart wants what it wants". I think that's the case with Whitney, too, even though it seems to me she could do so much better than Chris.

[saber5055]

On Extra yesterday, there was a tease before commercial about WTA, and the clip showed some woman freaking out and yelling at the others. I barely caught the clip from the corner of my eye, and waited through another segment of the show to see it, but it must have run at the end of the show and I just couldn't wait that long.

 

 

Does anyone have spoilers from WTA? I thought the woman freaking was Kelsey (shorter dark hair) but I could be wrong.

[lulee]

I haven't seen confirmation about Kelsey's attendance or lack thereof.

[treebyleaf]

Yes, Kelsey attended WTA. Reality Steve confirmed yesterday and in a pic Carly posted on Instagram you can see Kelsey seated with the rest of the women. 

 

E! has a preview of the women ganging up on Britt with Jillian defending her. No one comes out looking great but I do feel bad for Britt who I think is more of an impulsive/flighty type than a maniacally-plotting-to-trick-Chris type.

[Shugardrawers]

And it also makes viewers tune in. People don't want to watch pug-ugly people who look like Everyman in Walmart. If they did, the regular network shows and magazine ads would be full of "pregnant" bald guys and ultra-muffin-top women. And those airbrush artists (now Photoshop specialists) would go out of business. Who watches the Victoria Secret runway angels and wishes they were size 20 and 250 lbs.?

 

Well, okay, so a couple of you do ...

 

 

Really? Does EVERY man value looks above intelligence, personality etc?

 

I don't want to get modded again, but I was trying to leave myself out of it. The guys have already been cast. Of those 25+ guys, I think the majority--not every single one--would have preferred Britt. Especially when just about all of the variables (hair color, bust size, tall vs. short, skinny vs. curvy, etc) are out the window. Both Britt and Kaitlyn are slim, modestly chested brunettes of average height (5'5" and 5'4").

 

Again, do looks matter that much more than anything else?  Yes, Britt was lovely from a physical standpoint but she was all kinds of crazy.  Would men really want to deal with THAT rather than a woman of lesser looks who's intelligent, decisive, etc but just of slightly above average looks?  Methinks you are only looking at one aspect of Britt.  She has nothing but her looks to carry a season and that will get old QUICKLY

[saber5055]

Again, do looks matter that much more than anything else?

 

 

On reality tv shows that are formulated to make money for the network and its advertisers, that's 100-percent a "Yes." It's the same reason Hardees/Carl Jr. hired Paris Hilton, not Melissa McCarthy, to lay all over that car she is washing while eating a burger and wearing a micro-bikini. The list of sexist examples is endless.

Edited February 27, 2015 by saber5055

[sofiah]

I think that's an assumption though. Yes, Britt is hot but people are attracted to different things. Some guys prefer blondes to brunettes so maybe Britt, a brunette would not be appealing to them; some guys shockingly yes prefer women with more natural looks versus a cake full of makeup on their face which is also not Britt. Not to mention Britt is also pretty short, now I think her height added to her cuteness factor where she had this doll like quality but some guys like tall, leggy women so Britt wouldn't appeal to them. The idea that Britt being the Bachelorette would have guaranteed this rush of guys madly desiring and wanting her is huge speculation in my opinion seemingly based on one's own personal attraction towards Britt.

 

 

Agree.  Especially when some of them, I'm assuming, will have seen Britt in this season and potentially not liked some aspects of her personality. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by sofiah

[looksee]

Again, do looks matter that much more than anything else? 

Call me shallow, but I don't want to look at ugly people on tv.

[lulee]

Let's be real here -- we're not talking about The Bachelor: Craniofacial Malformation or The Bachelorette: Werewolfgirl edition.  Nobody on these shows is going to be described as "ugly" by typical Jane and John T. V. Viewer.

 

We're talking about a continuum that goes from cute to pretty to gorgeous for women and nice-looking to handsome to marble-statue-worthy for men.