S03.E10: Friends and Family

[Sarnia]

4 hours ago, Ragingviolet said:

I am confused why there are so many comments speculating about Lea and Shaun becoming an item because she was comforting him?  (...) When you are single you need people around who will hold you when you need it and it wont' turn into having to worry about sex.

I have not seen the previews for next episode (and honestly, I wish they would not be discussed here, or maybe with spoilers, but I don't know what the requirements are about this on this particular forum). But this is also pretty much what I felt from what was shown in this episode.

I did not have at all a romantic vibe about Lea comforting Shaun. I felt that she was just trying to provide reassurance, to put him in a safe place. It could have been someone else than Lea, if there was someone else in Shaun's life that was there and understood what he needed at that time. It could have been Glassman if he was capable of such gestures, it could have been his mom if she had motherly feelings, it could have been his brother if he wasn't dead. Since none of them could be there for Shaun, Lea was. I don't know much about autism so apologies if I'm off the mark, but I felt that being held tightly like this was just what he needed when his body was acting up.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I do wish there had been more Shaun-Claire interaction this season. I would have loved to see his reaction to Claire's reaction to losing her mother. He might have had perspective for her, about letting go of people who aren't capable of loving you and not disappointing you. Shaun actually had real love from his brother, and knows the difference between people who abuse you and people who don't. Claire might not actually have as clear an idea of that as he does.

Agreed. I really hope we get some conversation of that sort between them going forward. They've always been good sounding boards for each other, and "get" each other on a certain level, so this would be a good opportunity for them to connect further. It'd be nice to see them being there for each other through their respective grief and pain.

Quote

The whole closure thing always seems to come from people who aren't the ones who were abused. It's a fantasy for people who didn't really experience it, to think it wasn't that bad. In my experience, people who were horribly abused are WAY more likely to give too much slack to the abusers, and NOT set healthy boundaries to fully separate. Once you finally do cut those people off, you can start to be sane and healthy again.

I think you're spot on with this. Indeed, I've never been in that situation, so I always feel it's not my place to tell those who have what they should or shouldn't do in that regard. I can perhaps imagine how I might deal with that stuff if it were me...but that's me. Every person, every family dynamic, every situation is different, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. I can understand those who have a hard time cutting off toxic family members, and I can also very much understand those who just want a clean break altogether. Every person should do what's right and healthy for them, and others should only ever even consider getting involved if the person specifically asks their advice. And even then, at the end of the day, whatever choice that person makes still needs to be their decision and theirs alone. 

Regarding Lea and the romance talk, yeah, I didn't get any romantic vibes from that end scene, either. The only time I felt any hint of that sort was when she brought him down to the river for a swim, and even then, if there was any interest, it was on Shaun's end, and briefly at that. He's known her longer, so her comforting him at the end made it easier for him to relax a little and finally just let out his emotions. It was a really sweet, deeply touching moment between two friends. 

[Evagirl]

Shaun's autism is too sever for him to have any kind of romantic relationship.  He can forget rearing children as well.  His outburst when he first got to the house showed that he is emotionally unstable.  Him (literally) beating himself up showed that he is emotionally unstable.  This is Shaun.  The only things that can "fix" or make him even remotely less robotic are the writers.

Watching the winter finale had me seeing Shaun through a different lens.  He is virtually a robot who gets overloaded and crashes.

Carly needs to find a job at another hospital and move on.  She cannot make Shaun into the man she wants him to be.  He just doesn't have it in him and I don't see how she can be content with always catering to his needs and his wants, while she knows her needs will never be met because Shaun isn't capable of meeting them.

Kill the romance, let the friendship with Lea continue, let Glassman continue to be jealous of Lea's relationship with Shaun, and let Shaun be the "good doctor".  End this crazy "romantic" relationship stuff.  It's a waste of time.

And for crying out loud - give Claire a break!

[dshgr]

21 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I hate the idea that kids (or anyone really) has to have some closure or forgive a toxic parent or family member who is about to die.  If the person was a complete and total asshole abuser, then getting away from them is complete and total self care.  Death doesn't change how they treated you in life.

So much this!!!!! 

I had cut ties, then went back when my father was dying of cancer.  One of his last acts was to hit me (had to get a last one in), and after his death, my mother called the police on me because I paid her bills.  My parents were a bully and a narcissist.

I had to go back into therapy at age 56.  I didn't need closure, nor am I glad I saw them again.  Some people are just bad parents and they don't deserve to have children, nor any respect from them.

[Annber03]

Damn. I'm sorry you went through that, @dshgr.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

What exactly did the father say at the end? I know it was awful. I haven't had time to rewatch that painful scene.

Claire, don't dunk your phone in coffee! You were just talking about how young doctors don't make a lot of money! Hope you had your info backed up.

The mom coming to the diner ... I would have said "You'll have to wait until I eat my delicious pancakes." I did like the looks that Lea and Glassman gave to each other.

Freddie Highmore absolutely deserves an Emmy for this role. The Emmys/academy suck ... they are so biased in favor of all of the shows and actors on premium cable and streaming services. Maybe an additional part of it is perhaps Freddie doesn't "campaign" for the award.  I think some actors really pull all of the stops with PR campaigns and such to get recognized by the people who vote for the awards.

[mookster]

I must be a cold, dead fish, because this episode left me...cold. Don't get me wrong - I'm as big a sap as the next person, and I was fully ready to bawl my eyes out, but this all seemed so contrived. My 14yo loves the show, so I watch it with her, but it's getting on my last nerve.

First off, they are all so freaking self-centered. Glassman relates to Shawn's situation because he lost his daughter, Claire relates to the football player because of her mom, Leah drags up her dysfunctional family. Can any of them show empathy for something they haven't personally experienced? 

Reznick projecting her personal crap onto every patient, co-worker, etc. is tiresome and highly unprofessional. I guess she's doing okay with her RA, so we can go back to hating her.

As someone upthread mentioned, I remember why Leah annoys so much - her pixie-ish "let's do something crazy" wild spirit shtick is exhausting. She doesn't want to push him to see his father, but she's pushing a guy with sensory issues to go swimming - at night - in the winter - after drinking. Aggravating. And they better not be foreshadowing a romantic relationship...

Finally, Shawn himself. As someone mentioned in other episode threads, his frequent meltdowns don't really make for a high-functioning character. I used to like seeing his brilliance in figuring out complex medical challenges, but the writers have spun off into soap opera-land, which is a lot less appealing to me. YMMV. 

That said, I love Melendez and Kim and Claire. I was happy to see Claire start turning around - but would she really drop her phone in her coffee? The writing on this show can be so lazy. Like when Shawn asked his mother why she stayed with his father, I thought she was going to say "I had nowhere to go," which might explain her helpless enabling. But "I love him"? And I thought the football player was a throwaway. That could have been done better with more time.

[DearEvette]

27 minutes ago, mookster said:

That said, I love Melendez and Kim and Claire. I was happy to see Claire start turning around - but would she really drop her phone in her coffee? The writing on this show can be so lazy.

I would have loved, loved, loved, that if after Park scolded Claire about dropping her phone in the water saying people needed to get in contact with her, that after he left, she simply plucked it out, dried it off and smirked to herself and murmured 'Relax, it's waterproof."

Edited December 4, 2019 by DearEvette

[TurtlePower]

What a heartbreaking episode. This one struck deep, I had a similar situation with my dad as Shaun did. They did a very good job of conveying the pain that comes from a situation like that. 

Props to Lea for being a much needed friend to Shaun. I don’t know how they did it, but she is SO much more likable this season. Shaun seems to have a deep, trusting connection with Lea for him to allow her in like that at the end. He didn’t even have that with his parents and I completely understand it. That’s why it was such a sad episode. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, putting her phone into a cup of water was just plain ridiculous.  I dropped mine in the toilet by accident once and it was a VERY stressful 48 hours after I scooped it out.  It was in a case and I moved fast, but, still....you never know.  No damage, thank goodness.  (OH, the toilet water was clean.  lol)  I really cannot imagine any person, especially, a professional doing this.  

I visited a friend who is a patient at Duke Medical Center today.  I noticed all the doctors who were in white coats. I've been reading around here about whether doctors really do wear them.  Plenty of doctors did have them on today.  I think it's so they have a place for their stethoscope, flashlight and other little instruments. 

[Blue Plastic]

The stuff with Shaun's parents just didn't make any sense to me.  Unless I've missed something, we've still never gotten an explanation of how and when Shaun and Glassman met and when on the timeline Shaun was bounced around to various foster families.

For the first 3/4 of the episode they seemed to be rewriting history and hinting that Shaun's bio father was just a little gruff and mean but that was because he didn't know how to take care of a child who was autistic.  (Never mind that someone who would kill their child's pet rabbit just to be mean is a horrible, sadistic abuser, NOT just a misguided parent who doesn't know how to handle a difficult situation.)  Then all of a sudden the dad, after pretending to be all regretful and appreciative of Shaun's intelligence and accomplishments, he suddenly showed his true colors again.

Not sure what the point of that was.  Not sure why the dying father would want to use the very last of his energy yelling at a son he never liked or appreciated and hadn't seen in years.  It seems that he was really just that sadistic, in which case Shaun didn't need to go see him or his mother AT ALL.  Glassman should have known better and was obviously projecting his own parent-child issues onto Shaun.  Leah was a way better friend in this instance as far as not pushing it.

I thought the dad looked and seemed too strong and healthy for someone who was supposed to be at death's door.

What was the significance of the flashback of abusive dad carrying Shaun across the stream to rejoin the other little boy (supposedly Shaun's brother)?  Shaun started to explain why he didn't want to be carried but was interrupted.

[Ragingviolet]

19 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

I don’t want to spoil it if you didn’t see, but the preview for the next episode is what has so many speculating. I didn’t think anything of the ending until I saw that. 

I watch it on hulu so I don't get previews.  what did it show?

[Lsk02]

3 hours ago, Ragingviolet said:

I watch it on hulu so I don't get previews.  what did it show?

Spoiler

It showed Lea and Shaun in their clothes sitting on the bed the next morning and Lea asking if they were going to talk about what happened. Then Shaun telling Glassman that touching Lea felt different than touching Carly.  And finally, Carly asking Shaun if something happened with him and Lea.  

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, putting her phone into a cup of water was just plain ridiculous.  I dropped mine in the toilet by accident once and it was a VERY stressful 48 hours after I scooped it out.  It was in a case and I moved fast, but, still....you never know.  No damage, thank goodness.  (OH, the toilet water was clean.  lol)  I really cannot imagine any person, especially, a professional doing this.  

I agree about the phone in the water, the same thing happened to me and it was awful. It was totally fine for about 20 minutes and then suddenly completely dead. I was totally panicked. But I do know that when I got my replacement I was able to keep the same number so it made no sense that Claire would have needed a new number. I guess they just were trying to have continuity and not make it look like her phone was working fine after her tantrum.

3 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

The stuff with Shaun's parents just didn't make any sense to me.  Unless I've missed something, we've still never gotten an explanation of how and when Shaun and Glassman met and when on the timeline Shaun was bounced around to various foster families.

We did see Shaun and Glassman meet, I think in the pilot. Didn't Shaun and his brother take the dead/injured rabbit to his office to try and get help? Then Glassman could tell they were from a bad home. I think we are supposed to infer that he felt a connection to Shaun (maybe because his daughter had recently died) and stayed in touch with Shaun/tried to help him. We saw he was at the brother's funeral and witnessed the father being an asshole.

But we have never learned why Glassman was in Wyoming or any more details about specific things he did for Shaun.

[bros402]

17 hours ago, Evagirl said:

Shaun's autism is too sever for him to have any kind of romantic relationship.  He can forget rearing children as well.  His outburst when he first got to the house showed that he is emotionally unstable.  Him (literally) beating himself up showed that he is emotionally unstable.  This is Shaun.  The only things that can "fix" or make him even remotely less robotic are the writers.

No, just no. You should do some research on autism.

His outburst was him getting out the years of emotions he had pent up at his parents. Imagine Shaun were neurotypical, hadn't sought therapy, and was called to his dying (abusive) father's bedside. A neurotypical person might scream at their father about the horrible stuff they did - Shaun was finally in a position where his father couldn't hit back.

Him hitting himself is his way of processing these complex emotions since he does not have the proper support built up. It is also, in part, self stimulating behavior (aka stimming) - it helps get out the energy when in a high stress situation. However, stimming *can* be managed.

Edited December 5, 2019 by bros402

[Good Doctor Fan]

6 hours ago, Sarah Heart said:

Very well said. 

Well, not just Lea comforting him, but Shaun comfortable with her holding him all night when he can only let Carly hug him for seconds.  The writers clearly are teasing this as a relationship start.  Or at least as Shaun recognizing feelings for Lea.  
 

But the writers seem to like to tease false directions.  I think that his comment about feeling different with Lea vs Carly is going to be that Lea’s touch didn’t add sexual pressure. 

[A.Ham]

10 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

For the first 3/4 of the episode they seemed to be rewriting history and hinting that Shaun's bio father was just a little gruff and mean but that was because he didn't know how to take care of a child who was autistic.  (Never mind that someone who would kill their child's pet rabbit just to be mean is a horrible, sadistic abuser, NOT just a misguided parent who doesn't know how to handle a difficult situation.)  Then all of a sudden the dad, after pretending to be all regretful and appreciative of Shaun's intelligence and accomplishments, he suddenly showed his true colors again.

This. I was thinking, are they really trying to rewrite/rehab the sadistic rabbit killer? It didn’t make sense—that’s not something you come back from easily, along with all his other abusive/controlling behavior. And then there he was, being horrible again.

[ForReal]

The dad's final outburst, while horrible and unexpected, took me out of the moment. Why did he want to speak to Shaun and say all the nice things, only to say something mean at the end? Was he that vicious, is that what we are to take away from the whole exchange? It seemed like a too obvious plot device to me, to have a twist in the ending. I'm with the camp that thinks it's healthier to cut toxic people out of your life rather than facing those people for closure. (I also thought it was a too obvious plot device last episode when the cheated on wife slapped Claire -- why on earth would the husband mention Claire while they were still in the hospital, except to have that scene?)

Lea continues to be a mixed bag for me, but maybe that's her purpose. Sometimes she gets Shaun or is at least able to say things to him in a way that he can get (saying he didn't have to get out of the car gave him some space to think and feel less pressure) but other times she does exactly the wrong thing and seems unaware of it (pressures him to get in the water and pretends to drown -- made me furious!). She doesn't always do everything right, but Shaun seems to be okay with that. 

That is what I saw as the whole crux with her holding him vs. him not letting Carly hold him. All this talk about intimacy, and the fact is that he and Carly are not intimate. They shared their fears last episode, that was nice, but there is still so much distance between them. They may both be horny, but there is not the comfort in her company that will allow him to touch her. He is comfortable with Lea. That said, I see no romantic future with Lea and I hope that Shaun learns from his *friendship* with Lea what he needs in a romantic partner.

[Spartan Girl]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:08 PM, tennisgurl said:

That was such a heart breaker, poor poor Shaun. It seemed like his dad really had seen the light on his death bed, but it turns out that, nope he is still the same awful abusive hateful piece of shit that he always was, even as Shaun tries to forgive him and be the bigger person. He is just a horrible bitter creep, who still cant take responsibility for his own actions that got his son killed and horribly hurt the other one. What a horrible sack of crap, and I dont have anything good to say about his mother either. She is a enabler who picked her horrible husband over her own sons, and just keeps making excuse after excuse for his awful behavior. Oh, he just wanted a different kind of son! Oh, it was a different time and we didnt know how to deal with an autistic child (because apparently sons childhood took place in the 1300s, not the, what, early 90s?)! Oh, I didnt choose my piece of crap husband over my young sons, I just liked dealing with a drunk more than an autistic kid! Oh, its the morphine that made him say those horrible unforgivable things, even though thats not at all how that works! Even after her husbands abuse led to the death of one of her sons and the other one leaving forever, she is still making excuses for him and choosing him over her kids, over and over again, no matter how many horrible things he did. I did kind of like how things ended, even if it was horribly sad for Shaun. There was for awhile this huge push for people to reconcile and forgive abusive family members, especially if they were dying, and while it can probably give some people closure depending on the situation, in a lot of situations, it just picks at old wounds for no reason and pushes people to try and be nice to people who really dont deserve it, and from what I have read, its often not very helpful. Some people are just awful and dont deserve forgiveness, and its an interesting note to leave the episode on. 

All this.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: if you want to stay in an abusive relationship, it's your life.  But if it's your children being abused -- and their poor defenseless pet bunny rabbit being FLUNG INTO A WALL -- and you choose to do nothing, then you are worthless, period.

It was the "alcoholic husband being easier to deal with than an autistic son" crap that made me want to throttle her.  Addiction sucks and all that, but Shaun was born the way he was while his father chose to be an asshole.  And yet Shaun gets lectured after he vents his anger to his father, while his father gets to be an asshole one last time from his deathbed without anyone interfering.  I guess it was too much for that worthless twat to speak up, but what about Glassman?  It would have been nice if he told them off instead of just trying to rush Shaun out of there.

[possibilities]

I thought Shaun was extremely mature and self-controlled with his parents. Anyone in his situation would have been shaking and sobbing, or raging, or SOMETHING. He was nervous, stressed, needed to take breaks and get his composure, and only really melted down after it was over and he'd been re-traumatized by that horrendous abusive tirade.

Contrast this with Jared, who assaulted an attending when he lost his temper in season 1. And Claire who's been moping and sleeping with married strangers and then not disclosing her relationship with a patient under her care, for weeks or months now. No one thinks Jared or Claire is incapable of adult behavior, intimacy, or parenting. We may say they are making bad choices or not handling something in a good way, but it's not an across the board condemnation of their fundamental capacity.

I think Glassman's wife is more immature than Shaun, honestly. Shaun does have things to work on, but he's actually working on them. And he's not trying to meddle in and control other people or interfere with THEIR lives, either.

[TurtlePower]

5 hours ago, Sarah Heart said:

I never saw anything  from Shaun, that would indicate  a romance, he was in too much of a state. Some people with autism,  love those weighted blankets, that feel like a giant hug. Lea was the weighted blanket, imho.

I dunno— it requires a lot of trust to allow someone to hold you when you don’t like being held. I can’t speak for everyone with autism, but I only trust one person in my life to hold me like that when I’m having a meltdown. ONE. A weighted blanket is quite a different thing altogether—not so much like a “hug”, but to me, like armor that calms me down. 

I suspect afterwards is when Shaun realizes how much he trusts Lea and how important she is to him. Perhaps he will realize he doesn’t have that kind of trust with Carly but having said that, I have no idea what way this is gonna go. 

[Virtual]

Well, that's twice that Shaun cut somebody a break and they screwed him over (the first time was in Season 1 when he chose to not confront Kenny over his criminal history, then he got his TV stolen by Kenny and denounced by him for having "quirks"). I wish he'd have just stuck with his instinct, and that Glassman realized this wasn't comparable to what happened with his daughter (the events Shaun went through in Season 1 were more comparable, and him pushing Shaun to get therapy then makes sense now; he hadn't pushed Maddie to do so and she ended up dead. Shaun also followed the same pattern of behavior of getting in a dangerous situation then running away that Maddie did before her death, which makes all his phone calls during the road trip with Lea make sense).

Shaun probably handled it all the right way (what his father said to him would upset neurotypicals), but part of me wanted him to say, "Was dad on morphine when he threw my rabbit against the wall and killed it? Was he on morphine when he screamed at me 'Why can't you be normal?!' He just proved he's not a person that deserves sympathy." His mother just wanted to make excuses for all that happened. Notice how in all of her scenes in this episode, she never once said that she and his dad were wrong? She just went on about THEM and how Shaun's autism affected THEM and how THEY didn't know what to do for him. How about thinking about what your son has to go through, y'know, the one born with the condition he has to live with for his whole life??

His mother just wanted him to come and be nice to his dad, and forget about all his dad put him through growing up. NO WAY. What you go through during those years can leave SCARS for life. Shaun's mother is just as bad when you consider she stood there and never protected Shaun, choosing her husband over her kids no matter how bad he treated them.

OK, here's the good. I did like Claire's conversation with that football player, and her FINALLY seeing someone to talk to about what she has been though. These are the first steps in her mental recovery, hopefully.

Lea brought a nice S1 callback with Shaun's "tequila, stat!" line. She then offsat it by trying to talk Shaun into going in the water with her without clothes. She very well could have been just trying to get Shaun's mind off everything going on, but she needs to consider that he has a girlfriend that he's been trying to make a strained situation with work out, and that it's gonna look bad to Carly when she finds out. I was OK with Lea holding Shaun though, given how hurt and upset he was. I saw that as a friend calming down a friend.

[rmontro]

I can't remember which doctor said that half the players in the NFL were morbidly obese?  I find that a little hard to believe.  I know statistics support it, but they're using BMI and applying it to professional athletes.  They're going to weigh more because they have packed on a lot of muscle.

I can believe a lot of the linemen might be on the fat side, but the players playing skilled positions have to be fast.

[aemom]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:22 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Poor Shaun. I have so many feels for him. Both his parents suck. Obviously his dad sucks for continuing to be an abusive hated asshole right until the bitter end, but let's not pretend that Shaun's mother is any better. She's a huge enabler and she kept pushing for Shaun to be nice to his abusive dickhead dad. I don't feel any sympathy for the dead dad nor for his mother. I hope Shaun officially cuts contact with his mother and gets Glassman to do the same. 

I'm glad Glassman and Lea were there for him in different ways. Both tried their very best but in the end, it was really up to Shaun to figure out what he wanted. I'm glad he let Lea in with that comforting embrace in the end.

I agree with you 100% on this.

On 12/3/2019 at 3:07 PM, Fable said:

Oh Leah, just when I was starting to come around on you, you pull that prank of trying to frighten Shaun into coming in the lake.  At least she was supportive and whether or not her ideas were sound or ill-thought-out, she was there for him, and he seems to appreciate her friendship, so she didn’t lose all my good will. 

After what Shaun had been going through, that was not a smart move on her part.

On 12/4/2019 at 4:14 AM, Sarnia said:

I have not seen the previews for next episode (and honestly, I wish they would not be discussed here, or maybe with spoilers, but I don't know what the requirements are about this on this particular forum). But this is also pretty much what I felt from what was shown in this episode.

I did not have at all a romantic vibe about Lea comforting Shaun. I felt that she was just trying to provide reassurance, to put him in a safe place. It could have been someone else than Lea, if there was someone else in Shaun's life that was there and understood what he needed at that time. It could have been Glassman if he was capable of such gestures, it could have been his mom if she had motherly feelings, it could have been his brother if he wasn't dead. Since none of them could be there for Shaun, Lea was. I don't know much about autism so apologies if I'm off the mark, but I felt that being held tightly like this was just what he needed when his body was acting up.

I also did not get a romantic vibe at all.  He was in a total state and he was physically harming himself.  A lot of autistic people don't like being touched, but I would have done the exact same thing with any autistic person - tried to restrain them to get them to calm down enough to stop harming themselves.

My thought is that perhaps they both fall asleep that way and when they wake up, Shaun is surprised that he was able to be hugged for so long by Lea.  But it's not so surprising to me.  He was so incredibly overwrought, that I could see his body overriding his typical impulse to push away and feel that the hugging was beneficial.  He trusts Lea as his roommate and good friend.  I could see that if Glassman was the one who had come by, that it could have had the same outcome.

I really hope the show doesn't try to make it more than that.  If they do, then that plot point is poorly played.

I also don't understand at all why the father wanted to see Shaun again at all, if he still really felt so poorly against him.  What would be the point?  Both his parents are horrible people and did a terrible disservice to Shaun.  As a mother to an autistic son, I know how very important early intervention is and if Shaun's parents had been good people and not selfish assholes, Shaun would be so much higher functioning that he is.  They deserve no forgiveness whatsoever.

Edited December 7, 2019 by aemom
Typo

[bros402]

8 hours ago, aemom said:

I also don't understand at all why the father wanted to see Shaun again at all, if he still really felt so poorly against him.  What would be the point?  Both his parents are horrible people and did a terrible disservice to Shaun.  As a mother to an autistic son, I know how very important early intervention is and if Shaun's parents had been good people and not selfish assholes, Shaun would be so much higher functioning that he is.  They deserve no forgiveness whatsoever.

Yuuup, even in Wyoming they'd have resources for Autism, even back in the 90s. 

[TurtlePower]

13 hours ago, aemom said:

I also don't understand at all why the father wanted to see Shaun again at all, if he still really felt so poorly against him.  What would be the point?  Both his parents are horrible people and did a terrible disservice to Shaun.  As a mother to an autistic son, I know how very important early intervention is and if Shaun's parents had been good people and not selfish assholes, Shaun would be so much higher functioning that he is.  They deserve no forgiveness whatsoever.

Absolutely agree. His parents were awful people. Parents like that only make it more frustrating and difficult for an autistic child and can cause the child to feel unwanted, misunderstood and unloved. Those feeling may never go away, either. I still feel like there's something "wrong" with me when I go to visit my mom, like I'm a problem. It creates a lot of stress and I wind up leaving, every time. 

I am happy you were able to intervene early for your son, for both your sakes. 

[possibilities]

I also realized: both kids ran away and were living alone in an abandoned school bus, and apparently there was no missing children report filed anywhere?

[Gramto6]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I also realized: both kids ran away and were living alone in an abandoned school bus, and apparently there was no missing children report filed anywhere?

This!! What kind parents don't report their children missing??? I guess they just didn't care and were glad the kids were out of their hair.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I also realized: both kids ran away and were living alone in an abandoned school bus, and apparently there was no missing children report filed anywhere?

More evidence of how much the parents sucked.

[tvfanatic13]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:22 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know if Highmore has won any awards for his role on this show?  He sure deserves them. Compared to other leading actors in a drama......he's really outstanding.  I can't imagine anyone better. 

He was just nominated for a Critic’s Choice Award. 
I don’t know why but I actually like Leah. 

[bros402]

6 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

He was just nominated for a Critic’s Choice Award. 
I don’t know why but I actually like Leah. 

I like her too

Except when she does things like pretend to be drowning to try to "prove a point"

[Higgins]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 12:09 PM, morriss said:

Can pain medication actually cause an outburst like that?  Or was Shaun 's mother just covering for the father by saying that? 

Impending death can cause something called terminal agitation.

[TurtlePower]

On 12/9/2019 at 3:21 AM, Higgins said:

Impending death can cause something called terminal agitation.

I was unaware this having worked in a pre-hospital/ER setting. Of all the people I've been with when they died, I've never seen it--but I've never spent time in hospice. Just looked it up. 

[Higgins]

18 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

I was unaware this having worked in a pre-hospital/ER setting. Of all the people I've been with when they died, I've never seen it--but I've never spent time in hospice. Just looked it up. 

Yes, it can usually be managed but not always. It is always extremely distressing to family and staff when it happens and can't be controlled.

[sinkwriter]

On 12/9/2019 at 4:21 AM, Higgins said:

Impending death can cause something called terminal agitation.

*nodding  When my grandmother was in hospice, the people providing us information and aid told us there were a number of things that could happen when the patient is nearing death, including that sort of agitation. They wanted us to be mentally prepared for any possibility. There's no guarantee how the body will behave, and each person is different, I guess. In the end, thankfully, that's not something my grandma experienced.

[jabRI]

And just to lighten the mood, I looked up his mother on imdb because she looked familiar somehow, turns out she was Victoria Winters / Josette du Pres on DARK SHADOWS.  And now that i've officially shown my age, that's it for me.

But I agree with the earlier comments, Glassman should have let Shaun follow his instinct and not care that his worthless dad was dying. And I don't like Lea (sorry for the actress) but I just got a friend vibe in helping him through this.

[gail56]

On 12/3/2019 at 12:02 AM, JKL845 said:

Or the writers do anyway😊 I understand this is out of the norm and the comfort was probably welcome but if they are realistic Shaun should have his same issues with anyone. 

Not really. I am autistic and don't like to be touched, however minor, by people I don't know. However, once I get used to someone, being around them long enough where I trust and feel comfortable with them, I have no problem with them touching me.  Shaun and Lea have known each other awhile, are roommates, so it makes perfect sense to me that he would feel comfortable with her touching him. He is still getting to know Carly.

[Trini]

Two things:

Freddie Highmore - really good actor. I like that he can convey so much with just his face.

Glad Claire is on an upswing. But remember when Claire and Shaun used to be friends?? I'm disappointed that they have dropped that for the most part this season. Now they have both lost a parent within months of each other; I hope they can get to talk/bond about that sooner than later.

[catrice2]

On 12/25/2019 at 10:52 AM, gail56 said:

Not really. I am autistic and don't like to be touched, however minor, by people I don't know. However, once I get used to someone, being around them long enough where I trust and feel comfortable with them, I have no problem with them touching me.  Shaun and Lea have known each other awhile, are roommates, so it makes perfect sense to me that he would feel comfortable with her touching him. He is still getting to know Carly.

Thank you for saying this.  I have had many, many autistic students who were just fine with me touching them...and who were sometimes affectionate towards me.   I dispair at people who read a PSA or brochure or something and think they understand Autism.  Even I don't pretend i do, but then again I don't try.  I just love the kids..and they all have something..even if it is just hard headedness!

[Court]

On 12/3/2019 at 12:22 AM, Quiet1 said:

Unpopular opinion I know, but I don't like Lea and I really, really don't like Lea and Shaun together. She comes across as a user to me and fair weather friend. If they keep them platonic and her not shown much I can tolerate it but nothing more please. I love Claire and her story line is always interesting to me.

Yes! I'm way behind but good grief, any goodwill Lea had built up with me flew out the window this episode. I hated it. 

 

Also, his mother sucks too. I hope his father burns in hell. 

 

WTF with running previews for next episode before this one is even over? Thanks for spoiling the episode for me. 

[Court]

On 12/5/2019 at 2:53 AM, bros402 said:

No, just no. You should do some research on autism.

His outburst was him getting out the years of emotions he had pent up at his parents. Imagine Shaun were neurotypical, hadn't sought therapy, and was called to his dying (abusive) father's bedside. A neurotypical person might scream at their father about the horrible stuff they did - Shaun was finally in a position where his father couldn't hit back.

Him hitting himself is his way of processing these complex emotions since he does not have the proper support built up. It is also, in part, self stimulating behavior (aka stimming) - it helps get out the energy when in a high stress situation. However, stimming *can* be managed.

Thank you. While my son doesn't have a diagnosis of autism, his diagnoses shares some behaviors. He has similar meltdowns and also stims. I've noticed I stim too but mine are just "socially acceptable. Reading the above made me sad for my son. Your reply made me have hope because I am confident he can live a full and happy life. 

[bros402]

2 hours ago, Court said:

Thank you. While my son doesn't have a diagnosis of autism, his diagnoses shares some behaviors. He has similar meltdowns and also stims. I've noticed I stim too but mine are just "socially acceptable. Reading the above made me sad for my son. Your reply made me have hope because I am confident he can live a full and happy life. 

Maybe consider having him see a neurologist to get an ASD diagnosis - he could have autism *and* his other diagnosis? If he's under three and you are in the US, contact your county Early Intervention Program. If he is between 3-5 and not in school yet, contact the school district to start the IEP process now. If he's older than that and he doesn't have an IEP, consider requesting the school perform an evaluation in all areas of disability.

Has he seen an OT to make sure he doesn't have sensory issues?

[RCB]

Jesus Christ, am I the only one who actually likes Lea and doesn't find her annoying? She can be annoying sometimes and she is not perfect, but she is overall a really good character and I actually always found the anti-Lea people more annoying. I don't care who Shaun ends up with in the end as long as its satisfying, interesting, and healthy. If Shaun ends up with Lea romantically, I will be happy for both of them. If they don't, I'll also be happy as long as they are still good friends.

Also, am I the only one who finds Carly too bland and boring? She's way too good and perfect that it's annoying. She's a bit too one dimensional and that's pretty much my only problem with her.

[catrice2]

4 hours ago, RCB said:

Jesus Christ, am I the only one who actually likes Lea and doesn't find her annoying? She can be annoying sometimes and she is not perfect, but she is overall a really good character and I actually always found the anti-Lea people more annoying. I don't care who Shaun ends up with in the end as long as its satisfying, interesting, and healthy. If Shaun ends up with Lea romantically, I will be happy for both of them. If they don't, I'll also be happy as long as they are still good friends.

Also, am I the only one who finds Carly too bland and boring? She's way too good and perfect that it's annoying. She's a bit too one dimensional and that's pretty much my only problem with her.

I am team nobody and stick to the medical stories...I just think they should show him having growth in other areas and don't know why they had to insert a romance at all. After not being able to control his emotions in the workplace and his family issues, that should be the least of his concerns.  He was not even solidly learning how to be a good friend..they should have expanded that a little more. 

[possibilities]

I agree Carly is bland and non-descript, they've mostly used her as a plot device rather than developing her character, and I think it's a mistake.

[RCB]

11 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I agree Carly is bland and non-descript, they've mostly used her as a plot device rather than developing her character, and I think it's a mistake.

Yeah...if they don't plan on developing a character and are only going to use them as a plot device, they should just keep them as a recurring character.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, RCB said:

Jesus Christ, am I the only one who actually likes Lea and doesn't find her annoying? She can be annoying sometimes and she is not perfect, but she is overall a really good character and I actually always found the anti-Lea people more annoying. I don't care who Shaun ends up with in the end as long as its satisfying, interesting, and healthy. If Shaun ends up with Lea romantically, I will be happy for both of them. If they don't, I'll also be happy as long as they are still good friends.

Also, am I the only one who finds Carly too bland and boring? She's way too good and perfect that it's annoying. She's a bit too one dimensional and that's pretty much my only problem with her.

Lea is.... mixed.

Season 1 Lea was too much

Season 2, ok

Season 3, pretty good, outside of a few moments (i.e. pretending to be in distress while swimming to try to force Shaun to do something)

[TurtlePower]

On 12/25/2019 at 9:52 AM, gail56 said:

Not really. I am autistic and don't like to be touched, however minor, by people I don't know. However, once I get used to someone, being around them long enough where I trust and feel comfortable with them, I have no problem with them touching me.  Shaun and Lea have known each other awhile, are roommates, so it makes perfect sense to me that he would feel comfortable with her touching him. He is still getting to know Carly.

Same for me. It’s a comfort-trust thing.  There are relatives of mine I hate being touched by but a trusted friend will be okay. 

[catrice2]

11 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Same for me. It’s a comfort-trust thing.  There are relatives of mine I hate being touched by but a trusted friend will be okay. 

But honestly, isn't that true of most people?   

[TurtlePower]

15 hours ago, catrice2 said:

But honestly, isn't that true of most people?   

I dunno, I can only guess people can “tolerate” hugs and get through it. For me I’m feeling like, “get the hell away from me” the whole time and seek solitude immediately after. Luckily, certain family members have picked up on this and stopped forcing hugs on me. There are only 3 people in my life in my “hug zone”. 

I don’t get hugs, especially when parents force their children to hug every family member during the holidays. Don’t force that on kids.