Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[statsgirl]

It doesn't explain the constant head bobbing and shaking though. I'd be okay with her speech patterns but I can't with the bobble head.

[ulkis]

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It doesn't explain the constant head bobbing and shaking though. I'd be okay with her speech patterns but I can't with the bobble head.

Ha no but I just thought it might be a factor. I don't quite know what speech pattern you guys are talking about myself but I don't pay too much attention to Sasha.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

The Sasha actress' first language is not English (Swedish) so maybe that has something to do with how she talks.

Yeah well, English isn’t my parents’ first language either, and both speak better English than Sasha.😒

25 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Ha no but I just thought it might be a factor. I don't quite know what speech pattern you guys are talking about myself but I don't pay too much attention to Sasha.

Example: “Chase. That was.me.” Pause. “Blah blah...and so...blah” All with the bobble head.

[Kiki777]

I think Sasha’s just there to be pretty.  Girl has perfect skin but cannot act to save her life.  I saw her recently in a Lifetime movie and it was the same story there. 

The more Alexis/Neil scenes I see, the more I like the pairing.  They both have that intelligent/nerdy/socially-awkward vibe.  

I don’t find Violet all that annoying or precocious, and I am generally not a fan of kids on TV.  She’s adorable, as is Wiley who isn’t conventionally baby-cute, but somehow looks like a tiny old man with a very expressive face.

OMG.  Wiley is a better actor than Sasha.

[perkie1968]

10 hours ago, paisley said:

If Trina's mom is the custodial parent and was at a conference, who was overseeing her while she got ready for the dance?

I thought Trina was getting ready at Liz'.  She came down the stairs and everyone was all ooh lala when they saw her.  

[rur]

No, she came to the Liz's door, and when she entered Cam was dumbstruck.

[Bringonthedrama]

13 hours ago, paisley said:

Trina's Mom has come in hot and hostile. Hope she evens out soon. Carly has the bitch character covered already.

I'm hoping for a Nell murder mystery for May sweeps. 

A) I would be perfectly happy to see Trina's mom be hot and hostile to Carly, as no one is more deserving. For example, Carly tries to be charming and assure her that Trina is so totally safe while hanging out with Joss at Casa Corinthos because of all the guards ... and gets a nasty reality check from Trina's mom given recent events.

B) I think a murder mystery is coming, but the murderer will be someone unexpected like Sasha or Lorraine/Harmony (Willow's mother) or even Josslyn.

[Ambrosefolly]

14 hours ago, paisley said:

I'm hoping for a Nell murder mystery for May sweeps. I'm also wishing for a Taggert resurrection.

I am not. Even if Nelle goes to jail, I hope she manages to only not only keep her parental rights over Wiley, but force Michael to bring the baby to her for visitation. The one thing I actually like about Ava is that no matter how hard Sonny and Carly tried to steal Avery, she always wormed her way back. Avery is one kid neither of them have free and clear, and I hope Wiley is the other. 

Nelle had a point about Wiley not being safe with Michael. Sonny and Jason, have no interest in quiting the mob and Michael won't cut ties with them, especially Jason. Even if Nelle doesn't truly love Wiley, he is still safer with her than Michael.

Quote

WOW, Cam's lines to Trina were a big F-Y from the writers/TPTB to JJ and Lucky.  That's the first confirmation that Cam knows of Zander, but to not even acknowledge that Lucky ever existed in his life?! UGHHH!!!!

I think it is to further push stupid Franco as the kids' "father" and punish JJ for daring to leave, even though the previous regime fired GV to get JJ. Can't have Lucky live in Washington D.C. and have the kids visit him time to time, thereby explaining away any absences.

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And yet the body count of murdered Quartermaines is higher than that of the Corinthii.

But how many of that Quartermain body count is directly/indirectly caused by the Corinthi?

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The answer to is besides Lila and Edward, they have all been killed direclty or indirectly by Sonny and Jason. 

Alan Q- suffered a fatal heartabrttack while be held hostage by Jerry Jacks, because he was after a briefcase for one of Sason's enemies, Lorenzo.

Justice Ward - killed because he was working as Sonny and Jason's lawyer. In fact he was ambushed when he replaced Jason last minute.

Emily Bowen-Quartermaine- killed by Diego, who came back from the dead and was seeking revenge on Jason and Sam from a mob war they were involved in .

AJ Q- was killed twice because of his feud with Sonny. First time as AJ took a desperate measure to have Michael, the second time trying to find out who really killed Kate Howard (it was AVA JEROME) and Sonny shot him.

Keep in mind, part of Sonny's own justification for being a mob boss is that he somehow stems worse mobsters, but that is false because he and Jason often esculate the level of violence, unlike Anna Devane, Robert Scorpio and Sean Donely (the police comissioner after Robert) who were able to keep crime down, because they didn't have their own criminal enterprise to protect.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[Ambrosefolly]

The answer to  the above question is besides Lila and Edward, they have all been killed direclty or indirectly by Sonny and Jason. 

Alan Q- suffered a fatal heartabrttack while be held hostage by Jerry Jacks, because he was after a briefcase for one of Sason's enemies, Lorenzo.

Justice Ward - killed because he was working as Sonny and Jason's lawyer. In fact he was ambushed when he replaced Jason last minute.

Emily Bowen-Quartermaine- killed by Diego, who came back from the dead and was seeking revenge on Jason and Sam from a mob war they were involved in .

AJ Q- was killed twice because of his feud with Sonny. First time as AJ took a desperate measure to have Michael, the second time trying to find out who really killed Kate Howard (it was AVA JEROME) and Sonny shot him.

Keep in mind, part of Sonny's own justification for being a mob boss is that he somehow stems worse mobsters, but that is false because he and Jason often esculate the level of violence, unlike Anna Devane, Robert Scorpio and Sean Donely (the police comissioner after Robert) who were able to keep crime down, because they didn't have their own criminal enterprise to protect.

[Katy M]

40 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Nelle had a point about Wiley not being safe with Michael. Sonny and Jason, have no interest in quiting the mob and Michael won't cut ties with them, especially Jason. Even if Nelle doesn't truly love Wiley, he is still safer with her than Michael.

I think Wiley would be better off if the court just severed both of their parental rights and gave him back to Lucas.  I agree that a child won't have a safe life with close mob ties.  But, an unloved child might wish he were dead instead.

[ffwbe]

Regarding Cameron and Lucky, I saw the writing on the wall for Cam not considering Lucky to be his dad when they had Aiden spending the holidays with Lucky but no reference as to why Cam didn’t go. Even it was just to explain away Aiden’s absence, they could have at least mentioned a reason for Cameron staying behind if we were to believe that they still had a father/son relationship. 
 

Did they establish either GV or JJ’s Lucky as having a relationship with Cam during the times that he and Liz were apart? This show does have a habit of making someone a surrogate parent but completely forgetting these connections when the parents split up. Jax was supposed to be more of a father figure to Morgan than Sonny was and almost adopted him too but I don’t think we ever heard BC’s Morgan reference him. We kinda saw that to a less extent with Ric and Kristina. She called him daddy Ric, was pretty actively involved in her life to the extent that Alexis wanted Kristina to stay with him instead of Sonny if something happened to her, but after he and Alexis split up, that was all gone. I’m sure if Liz and Franco ever split up, it would be the same with him. 

[ffwbe]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think Wiley would be better off if the court just severed both of their parental rights and gave him back to Lucas.  I agree that a child won't have a safe life with close mob ties.  But, an unloved child might wish he were dead instead.

I agree which is why I wish the custody battle was Lucas vs Michael with Nelle on Lucas’ side since she thought Lucas would be safer. It’s unfortunate that they have to always make the other side worse to make the Corinthii the good guys. No matter what happens, Wiley loses since we know Michael is not going to walk away from his family and they haven’t portrayed Nelle as someone who wants to be a caring, active mother. 

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I am not. Even if Nelle goes to jail, I hope she manages to only not only keep her parental rights over Wiley, but force Michael to bring the baby to her for visitation. The one thing I actually like about Ava is that no matter how hard Sonny and Carly tried to steal Avery, she always wormed her way back. Avery is one kid neither of them have free and clear, and I hope Wiley is the other. 

Nelle had a point about Wiley not being safe with Michael. Sonny and Jason, have no interest in quiting the mob and Michael won't cut ties with them, especially Jason. Even if Nelle doesn't truly love Wiley, he is still safer with her than Michael.

I think it is to further push stupid Franco as the kids' "father" and punish JJ for daring to leave, even though the previous regime fired GV to get JJ. 

Nelle trusted Ryan Chamberlain, serial killer, knowing exactly who he was and what he has done. I don't believe for a second she wouldn't willingly and knowingly put the baby in harm's way to get what she wanted. She has already tried to use him as a shield ("Chase, are you going to shoot me while I'm holding my baby?") She is as much of a danger to that baby as Michael's family is.  Ava, on the other hand, raised Kiki to adulthood without her being harmed by Ava's family connections.  She genuinely loves Avery (that was evident when she spoke of Avery being all alone all night outdoors with an ill man who didn't know who she was.)  Nelle only uses Wiley as a prop to try to hurt people and get what she wants. I would prefer both M&N lose their rights and Wiley get returned to Lucas.

I agree with you that the Show is trying to push Franco as the only father Cam has ever known, as well as to punish JJ.

1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

Did they establish either GV or JJ’s Lucky as having a relationship with Cam during the times that he and Liz were apart? This show does have a habit of making someone a surrogate parent but completely forgetting these connections when the parents split up. Jax was supposed to be more of a father figure to Morgan than Sonny was and almost adopted him too but I don’t think we ever heard BC’s Morgan reference him. 

Yes, both. Cam always called Lucky "Daddy" or "Dad," and both GV and JJ as Lucky called him "my son," and Elizabeth always considered Lucky to be Cam's father.  Even after Aiden was born and was assumed to be Nik's, Lucky was seen playing with 6-year-old Cam in the park, and taking him and toddler Jake camping.  I still remember at that time, JJ's Lucky explained that their had been a mix-up about Aiden, and he made it clear to Cam that even though they don't have the same DNA he wanted to be Cam's dad. In child Cam and JJ's Lucky last scene together, he said "I love you, Dad." 

BC's Morgan did reference Jax as a father/father figure to Sonny when they were fighting

Cam's lines referencing his bio father and Franco wouldn't have bothered me if he also mentioned Lucky as "Aiden's dad, who abandoned us."  It would make sense that Cam resents Lucky's abandonment and therefore refuses to acknowledge memories of him being a loving father for the first 6-7 years of his life.  But for the Show to not let Cam acknowledge Lucky ever being in his life is utter bullshit/major Franco propping. Lucky was Cam's dad longer than Elizabeth and Franco have been together at this point. 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Bringonthedrama

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

But, an unloved child might wish he were dead instead.

Wiley is hardly an unloved child, though. He's treated as a possession by too many people, but there are plenty who love him.

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 3/6/2020 at 12:26 AM, Bringonthedrama said:

Robert wants Anna to be the smart person he used to know, and for their grandchildren to not look up to a liar and murderer as "uncle."

Eh, that's going to happen anyway as Robin still consorts with Sonny and Jason

18 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He was planning on adopting him when who knows what—?? Happened and it never took place. While I was never a fan of Vaughn’s Lucky, He LOVED both Cam and Jake, AND RAISED THEM! He was a very present father.

I loved GV's Lucky and I loved his bond with those kids but Lucky's record as a father, at this point, is dicey at best. I don't think it could be said that he raised Jake. Wasn't Jake fairly young when he "died?" And, other than when he returned Jake to Liz, He hasn't been an active part of his life growing up and Jake's a pre-teen now. With Cam, I guess you can say he helped raise him for awhile, but Cam was also pretty young when he and Liz broke up the last time and he may not have many memories of him and since it's been such a long time, he probably doesn't consider him his dad, especially since Lucky never formally adopted him.

I loved that scene with Cameron because I was a HUGE Zander fan, and even though his name wasn't mentioned, it was the first time he's been acknowledged in a long time and I'm so glad that his son does know some things about him and is curious about him. Since he's dead, unlike Lucky, he might never be mentioned again.

KG might be a good actress, but I've never forgotten the stuff Liesel did. She's just as responsible for the shit Faison did given how many years she covered for him and helped him get away with his crimes. She didn't care about the people he hurt so I don't give two shits about her pain over Nathan. Given the number of crimes she's committed I'm fine with her being falsely accused and I'm fine with Anna hating her and being smug about it. Even when the truth about Peter comes out she does not owe that woman one apology.

[FilmTVGeek80]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wiley is hardly an unloved child, though. He's treated as a possession by too many people, but there are plenty who love him.

I assume what Katy M meant was that Nelle's point is that Michael's family is dangerous - which is true but Wiley would not be better off with Nelle getting custody because she doesn't truly love him and if he had to grow up with her he'd be unloved.

[mbluecpa]

20 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They're really doubling down on Peter's nefariousness. Anna has gone BSC with glee at arresting Liesl and then practically pleading with Finn to come back now that it's proven that Peter was set up. And Maxie's speech to Peter about Liesl was just rubbing salt in how badly they're writing her. I hope this means he's going to be written off soon.

Now that the Wiley reveal is in the books, this has elevated in my mind to the storyline most past its expiration date. As long as WR is LWB I don’t see Peter going anywhere, though....

18 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And then there's Jordan. "Oh, two kids were kidnapped because of my connection to Cyrus Renault, but my son is just licking his wounds from his girlfriend rejecting his marriage proposal." How did anyone think she was suitable for law enforcement?

This. She’s the last survivor of a quartet of law enforcement who went after Cyrus and we’re ~24 hours from Taggert’s daughter being used as a pawn to get to him. Of course, this is the commissioner who has her civilian (PI, but civilian nonetheless) husband participate in official business. Didn’t she have difficulty identifying Kiki’s body because she failed to turn her over?

17 hours ago, lb60 said:

Speculation: That theater usher is somehow going to be involved in Neil's hearing.

 

Totally. 

16 hours ago, ciarra said:

Poor Willow.  Her bio baby died and now they're going to revisit Nina is her mom.  Tragic.

I thought they’d pretty firmly established that Harmony was her mom, but boy the sympathy that Nina showed (I forgot about the awful bullying storyline until there was a line about their history) followed by reaching for the necklace was surely anvilly. 

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wiley is hardly an unloved child, though. He's treated as a possession by too many people, but there are plenty who love him.

I was responding to the suggestion that Nelle having custody, even though she didn't love him would be safer.  I agree that everyone else involved, at least in their own way, love him.

[dubbel zout]

I think Nelle does love Wiley, actually, but she hates Michael and Carly and the Corinthii more. 

[ciarra]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I think Wiley would be better off if the court just severed both of their parental rights and gave him back to Lucas. 

I still hope that Michael isn't the real dad, Nelle dies, and Wiley goes back to Lucas.  Shiloh's DNA test got thrown out, unread.  Nelle/Shiloh ONS.  After the court case wraps up and Nelle loses custody to Michael, she finally says, "Ha, you're not his real dad, anyway!" and he loses Wiley again.

Edited March 7, 2020 by ciarra

[dubbel zout]

19 minutes ago, ciarra said:

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think Wiley would be better off if the court just severed both of their parental rights and gave him back to Lucas. 

I still hope that Michael isn't the real dad, Nelle dies, and Wiley goes back to Lucas.  Shiloh's DNA test got thrown out, unread.  Nelle/Shiloh ONS.  After the court case wraps up and Nelle loses custody to Michael, she finally says, "Ha, you're not his real dad, anyway!" and he loses Wiley again.

I can live with this. It solves a lot of the problems I have with this story: Michael shouldn't have a kid in the first place, we barely see Lucas, and Wiley is just a prop/plot point. 

 

[Bringonthedrama]

14 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Eh, that's going to happen anyway as Robin still consorts with Sonny and Jason

 With Cam, I guess you can say he helped raise him for awhile, but Cam was also pretty young when he and Liz broke up the last time and he may not have many memories of him and since it's been such a long time, he probably doesn't consider him his dad, especially since Lucky never formally adopted him.

I loved that scene with Cameron because I was a HUGE Zander fan, and even though his name wasn't mentioned, it was the first time he's been acknowledged in a long time and I'm so glad that his son does know some things about him and is curious about him. Since he's dead, unlike Lucky, he might never be mentioned again.

KG might be a good actress, but I've never forgotten the stuff Liesel did. She's just as responsible for the shit Faison did given how many years she covered for him and helped him get away with his crimes. She didn't care about the people he hurt so I don't give two shits about her pain over Nathan. Given the number of crimes she's committed I'm fine with her being falsely accused and I'm fine with Anna hating her and being smug about it. Even when the truth about Peter comes out she does not owe that woman one apology.

A) Yes, Robin still talks to Jason and Sonny. Emma has been in scenes with Anna and Jason, and knows Jason is a friend of her mom's but she has never called them "Uncle" nor has she been seen looking up to them as role models.  She does not Skype with them or go looking for them while visiting with Grandma Anna. 

B) It's fine, and should be expected, that Cam is curious about his bio father. However, Cam said something about what if his father had lived, they could have played ball, etc. Lucky did play catch or maybe it was football with Cam when he was a child. Cam is talking like he never had a father figure in his life until Franco and that is the problem.  If he even had a line like "Aiden's dad played with me sometimes when I was little, but then he abandoned us" it would have worked to acknowledge the reality of his history.

C) Totally agree with you about Leisl and that Anna should hate her and never owes her an apology. However, I want her to be hellbent on taking down Leisl for her proven crimes against Robin , not because she's "framing poor Peter, my son."  Leisl enabled Faison to eventually kill Nathan, so I don't feel any sympathy for her. An obsession with punishing Leisl for the years she spent protecting and enabling Faison and therefore robbing granddaughter Emma of years she'll never get back with Robin would be totally understandable. But Anna salivating over nailing Leisl for these crimes like Peter is a minor who never knew how to do the right thing and is now trying to but big, bad Liesl sees him as an easy patsy for her crimes is ..... ludicrous. FH played those scenes like she is really desperate for her blind faith in Peter to be validated, not like she believes with every fiber of her being that Leisl is guilty. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

29 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think Nelle does love Wiley, actually, but she hates Michael and Carly and the Corinthii more. 

I think we've been given ample evidence that Nelle is basically a sociopath. She doesn't love anyone and will turn on anyone as long as it benefits her. She claimed to love Michael too but once he was on to her and wouldn't play her games she plotted his murder.

I've seen nothing that suggests she loves Wiley beyond seeing him as an extension of herself and as a tool to get back at those she hates. She was basically willing to use him as a human shield when Chase and Michael cornered her.

[dubbel zout]

21 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

FH played those scenes like she is really desperate for her blind faith in Peter to be validated, not like she believes with every fiber of her being that Leisl is guilty. 

I think that's exactly right. Anna refuses to believe Peter is guilty, so she accepts anything that proves someone else, in this case, Liesl, is guilty. She'd arrest Finn if she found his name somewhere incriminating, however ludicrous. Anyone who isn't Peter. So annoying.

[Cheyanne11]

3 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I would be perfectly happy to see Trina's mom be hot and hostile to Carly, as no one is more deserving. For example, Carly tries to be charming and assure her that Trina is so totally safe while hanging out with Joss at Casa Corinthos because of all the guards ... and gets a nasty reality check from Trina's mom given recent events.

DREAM scenario.

Unfortunately she'll probably end up thanking Carly for opening her home to Trina and double down and apologize for Taggart being responsible for Cyrus's vendetta, because...this fucking show. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

5 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

A) Yes, Robin still talks to Jason and Sonny. Emma has been in scenes with Anna and Jason, and knows Jason is a friend of her mom's but she has never called them "Uncle" nor has she been seen looking up to them as role models.  She does not Skype with them or go looking for them while visiting with Grandma Anna. 

B) It's fine, and should be expected, that Cam is curious about his bio father. However, Cam said something about what if his father had lived, they could have played ball, etc. Lucky did play catch or maybe it was football with Cam when he was a child. Cam is talking like he never had a father figure in his life until Franco and that is the problem.  If he even had a line like "Aiden's dad played with me sometimes when I was little, but then he abandoned us" it would have worked to acknowledge the reality of his history.

C) Totally agree with you about Leisl and that Anna should hate her and never owes her an apology. However, I want her to be hellbent on taking down Leisl for her proven crimes against Robin , not because she's "framing poor Peter, my son."  Leisl enabled Faison to eventually kill Nathan, so I don't feel any sympathy for her. An obsession with punishing Leisl for the years she spent protecting and enabling Faison and therefore robbing granddaughter Emma of years she'll never get back with Robin would be totally understandable. But Anna salivating over nailing Leisl for these crimes like Peter is a minor who never knew how to do the right thing and is now trying to but big, bad Liesl sees him as an easy patsy for her crimes is ..... ludicrous. FH played those scenes like she is really desperate for her blind faith in Peter to be validated, not like she believes with every fiber of her being that Leisl is guilty. 

She may not officially call them Uncle, but I'm sure Robin will have no problem with Jason or Sonny in either of her children's lives and probably tells them what great men they are so, Peter or no Peter, her kids will grow up occasionally seeing criminals like Jason and Sonny as part of their extended families and as good guys who they can turn to in times of trouble.

I think the line you mentioned could have made sense but I just didn't see the scene as a slap in the face at Lucky, especially since this is consistent with how they've written Lucky's presence (or lack of presence) in the boys' life for years. I might have missed it in an earlier scene, but in the scene talking about Zander he doesn't talk about throwing a ball around. He talks about him teaching him how to shave and Lucky was mostly out of his life by that point. He doesn't mention Franco. He doesn't say he didn't have a father in his life until Franco. My interpretation of the scene was Cam was just trying to compare his situation with Trina. Trina mentions her parents being divorced most of her life, but Taggert still being around. I think Cameron was talking about how if Zander had lived he might have had a consistent fatherly presence that wasn't based on who his mother was dating/married to.

I think you're right about how FH played that scene and it makes sense but it also makes sense that her hatred of Obrecht for what she did to Robin plays a part in her being willing to believe that Obrecht could do this. So, no, I don't find it ludicrous that she's salivating over thinking she could be guilty and getting to put her behind bars, especially since she's desperate to believe the best in Peter. And, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Anna is some huge idiot or it's crazy that she has this huge blindspot when it comes to Peter. He did grow up under horrendous conditions and I understand why she's bending over backward to see the good in him. And Anna's behavior will in no way make me Team Liesel.

[katie9918]

I really think Patrick would have a bit of an issue with either of his kids thinking Sonny or Jason are okay to be around for more than a minute at a time.

 

Then again, Patrick would probably also have a problem with Emma calling Peter “Uncle Peter.” 

[Bringonthedrama]

36 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

. He doesn't mention Franco. He doesn't say he didn't have a father in his life until Franco. My interpretation of the scene was Cam was just trying to compare his situation with Trina. Trina mentions her parents being divorced most of her life, but Taggert still being around. I think Cameron was talking about how if Zander had lived he might have had a consistent fatherly presence that wasn't based on who his mother was dating/married to.

He first started out talking about Franco, but stopped because she made the point that Franco came back but her dad isn't going to. I'm contradicting the bolded because he essentially did say that. He speculates about if Zander had lived: "Maybe I would have known what it was like to have a father in my life." He's telling Trina he's glad for her that she has good memories of her father/knows he loved her, with the implication being that he'll never know his bio father and the Show's position is that Lucky never existed in his life.   

I guess we can agree to disagree re: Robin's kids and Sonny and Jason as extended family in the future because at this point it's all speculation. As far as I'm concerned, unless we see Emma excited to be around either of them or Emma/Anna/Robert (or Robin if she visits again) mention Emma and Noah chatting with, or wanting a visit with Jason and Sonny, they are not a part of either child's life.  Sonny is pretty busy with making Dev a minion-in-reserves as well as hoarding local children, and Jason barely has contact with his own eldest child who lives in the same town.  The only scenario in which I could see Emma looking up to Jason or Sonny with adoration is if one of them saves her in some kidnapping/hostage crisis because Anna is busy slobbering all over Peter. 

[ulkis]

Cam not bringing up Lucky didn't bug me, I think because like some said, he didn't extoll Franco either.

Now Liz (or Laura) not asking Nik if Lucky knows he's not dead, that's more annoying. They could throw in a line somewhere.

[ouinason]

Lucky married Liz when Cam was a year old, and lasted as a good dad until about the time Aiden was born in 2010 5 years later.  He was iffy after Ireland and getting married to that cipher, and then fucked off about a year later, when Cam was 7.  Logically, Cam and Jake barely remember Lucky at all, much less think of him as a father figure at this point.  I remember the adults consistently in my life by that point in my life who left it soon after not at all.  The fact that he sees Laura as a grandma, and that Jake calls Spencer his cousin means that there is still a connection, but in the context of that conversation Lucky is pretty immaterial.  

[racked]

For the way the show has been written for the past decade, It’s pretty reasonable for Liz’s sons not to consider Lucky a father.  But that does seem to be a strategic choice by the writers to screw the character over.  One of the more defining characteristics of GV’s Lucky was that he was such a great dad. JJ’s Lucky was allowed to be in more storylines so it wasn’t focused on as much but I wouldn’t have thought he’d abandon those children either.  

[lala2]

23 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I think it is to further push stupid Franco as the kids' "father" and punish JJ for daring to leave, even though the previous regime fired GV to get JJ. Can't have Lucky live in Washington D.C. and have the kids visit him time to time, thereby explaining away any absences.

I will honestly never understand this narrative.  Lucky was being written as a deadbeat LONG before Elizabeth hooked up w/Franco. This is not new. It's not like Lucky was a constant presence in Elizabeth and the boys' lives and then when she hooked up w/Franco, the writers suddenly made him a deadbeat. If that were the case, then I'd agree w/you, but Lucky's been a deadbeat for years now. 

When JJ left the last time (not counting the short time he dropped off Jake and then disappeared again), the writers decided to take Lucky down the deadbeat dad path. Why? Who knows? I happened to love GV's version of adult Lucky, and I loved his devotion to Elizabeth's boys. None of them were his but he claimed all of them. I hate what they did to Lucky, but they did it. It has nothing to do w/Franco or "propping" him. How can it? 

I would have loved it if they had written Lucky as taking the boys during the summer or visiting them or calling them, but they didn't do that for some reason. Cameron not considering him a father is completely understandable to me, and I say that as a huge GV Lucky fan. 

21 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I loved GV's Lucky and I loved his bond with those kids but Lucky's record as a father, at this point, is dicey at best. I don't think it could be said that he raised Jake. Wasn't Jake fairly young when he "died?" And, other than when he returned Jake to Liz, He hasn't been an active part of his life growing up and Jake's a pre-teen now. With Cam, I guess you can say he helped raise him for awhile, but Cam was also pretty young when he and Liz broke up the last time and he may not have many memories of him and since it's been such a long time, he probably doesn't consider him his dad, especially since Lucky never formally adopted him.

Exactly! I hate it too b/c I loved GV's adult Lucky (much more than the JJ adult version), and his love for and bond w/those kids was amazing. That said, the character was turned into a deadbeat when JJ left the last time. Elizabeth's kids were still VERY young at that point. That means, they were even younger when Lucky was around. I don't blame any of them for not considering him a father. It makes complete sense. 

If you take into account the SORAS'ing of Liz's kids, then Friz have been together for like 7+ years at this point. Cameron went from 9-years old to 16. LOL! Heck , if they all considered Franco their dad, it would make sense. 

14 hours ago, racked said:

For the way the show has been written for the past decade, It’s pretty reasonable for Liz’s sons not to consider Lucky a father.  But that does seem to be a strategic choice by the writers to screw the character over.  One of the more defining characteristics of GV’s Lucky was that he was such a great dad. 

Agreed. I'm not mad at any of them for not considering Lucky a dad. Why would they? He's been absent from their lives for years. I will always hate that the writers trashed him b/c I loved GV's version, but it is what it is. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by lala2

[Auntie Velvet]

On 3/7/2020 at 1:12 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

The answer to  the above question is besides Lila and Edward, they have all been killed direclty or indirectly by Sonny and Jason. 

Alan Q- suffered a fatal heartabrttack while be held hostage by Jerry Jacks, because he was after a briefcase for one of Sason's enemies, Lorenzo.

Justice Ward - killed because he was working as Sonny and Jason's lawyer. In fact he was ambushed when he replaced Jason last minute.

Emily Bowen-Quartermaine- killed by Diego, who came back from the dead and was seeking revenge on Jason and Sam from a mob war they were involved in .

AJ Q- was killed twice because of his feud with Sonny. First time as AJ took a desperate measure to have Michael, the second time trying to find out who really killed Kate Howard (it was AVA JEROME) and Sonny shot him.

Keep in mind, part of Sonny's own justification for being a mob boss is that he somehow stems worse mobsters, but that is false because he and Jason often esculate the level of violence, unlike Anna Devane, Robert Scorpio and Sean Donely (the police comissioner after Robert) who were able to keep crime down, because they didn't have their own criminal enterprise to protect.

This is a strech, but you could add Drew's death. He came to be invovled in the memory experiment Peter's covering up his role with, because Helena was so in love with Jason's ruthlessness and skillzzzz.

[Bringonthedrama]

4 hours ago, lala2 said:

Agreed. I'm not mad at any of them for not considering Lucky a dad. Why would they? s. 

I'm not mad at anyone for Cam not considering Lucky to be his dad currently; I'm mad that he's talking like Franco is the only father he's ever had *and* not acknowledging that Lucky was ever a part of his life.  Just one line where he says, "I have some vague memories of Aiden's dad from when I was little, but he abandoned us" would have worked for me.  I don't need to hear specifically: "I have fun memories when Aiden's dad was a father figure to me when I was a little kid." 

[lala2]

39 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I'm not mad at anyone for Cam not considering Lucky to be his dad currently; I'm mad that he's talking like Franco is the only father he's ever had *and* not acknowledging that Lucky was ever a part of his life.  Just one line where he says, "I have some vague memories of Aiden's dad from when I was little, but he abandoned us" would have worked for me.  I don't need to hear specifically: "I have fun memories when Aiden's dad was a father figure to me when I was a little kid." 

Okay. I hear you, but how old was Cameron when Lucky left?

When Franco and Liz started dating, Cameron was like 7, right? And Franco appeared on the show years after Lucky left and he was heavily involved w/Carly AND Nina before he and Liz hooked up. 

What I'm saying is Cameron had to be really young when JJ's Lucky left, so I'm not surprised he doesn't remember Lucky. I can't tell you my first memories but I think they are of me in the first grade. I remember a little about kindergarten. To me, it is entirely believable Cameron doesn't remember Lucky at all.

For a long time now, Lucky hasn't really been a consideration for the writers, so while a line about Cameron having vague memories of him wouldn't have been bad, I'm not surprised it wasn't included either. I was shocked they wrote in that Aiden was w/him over Christmas. He is an afterthought for them. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

3 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

kid." 

Okay. I hear you, but how old was Cameron when Lucky left?

When Franco and Liz started dating, Cameron was like 7, right? And Franco appeared on the show years after

Kid Cameron was STUCK being 7 for what seemed like three years or so. So he wasn’t a baby/toddler which could explain why he wouldn’t remember him. When Jonathan left, Elizabeth had a line (and I don’t recall who she said it to) that Cam and Jake Skyped with Lucky on a regular basis. So IF that’s still canon, then Cameron should fucking remember Lucky-even if he hates his guts now.

Edited March 9, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[YaddaYadda]

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Kid Cameron was STUCK being 7 for what seemed like three years or so. So he wasn’t a baby/toddler which could explain why he wouldn’t remember him. When Jonathan left, Elizabeth had a line (and I don’t recall who she said it to) that Cam and Jake Skyped wot Lucky on a regular basis. So IF that’s still canon, then Cameron should fucking remember Lucky-even if he hates his guts now.

I don't think it has anything to do with him not considering Lucky as part of his life or as his father. Sure, a mention may have been nice and all, but in that precise moment, he was trying to relate to Trina who had just lost her father and tell her that he understood her because his biological dad died as well and he never got to know him. 

Trina didn't even know about Zander or that he had died. She likely thought that Lucky was Cam's father all along, which I think speaks of Lucky's place in Cam's life. She also knows that Franco is fairly "new" in Cam's life, so there's really no confusion here. 

The writers can always do better with the dialogue, but they have a crippling case of the lazies or some fear that bringing up some names will make the audience remember those characters because they either think we have the attention span of gnats or that we forget.

[ulkis]

7 hours ago, lala2 said:

For a long time now, Lucky hasn't really been a consideration for the writers, so while a line about Cameron having vague memories of him wouldn't have been bad, I'm not surprised it wasn't included either. I was shocked they wrote in that Aiden was w/him over Christmas. He is an afterthought for them. 

He's not an after thought for them though. He's the son of the most famous couple on daytime, his mother, brother, sister, ex lover and son are on the show, just for starters. They know his absence for some things makes no sense but they don't feel like constantly coming up with reasons for why he is not around, so they just skip it.

I do blame them and I don't. It IS a pain in the ass to deal with that but I think the audience will cut them a break a lot, but when they can't throw in a line saying Nik and Lucky talked but Lucky is pissed at him now, that is not too hard.

I also blame FV for not recasting.

Edited March 9, 2020 by ulkis

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

Okay. I hear you, but how old was Cameron when Lucky left?

When Franco and Liz started dating, Cameron was like 7, right? And Franco appeared on the show years after Lucky left 

No, I remember Lucky telling Claire (colleague) that Cam was 6, and that was when Lucky and Elizabeth had broken up, but he had not yet gone undercover and met the Irish lady, Siobhan. So I think Cam was around 7 when Siobhan had died and Lucky decided to leave Port Charles indefinitely. He was SORASed to somewhere between 10 and 12 years old in time for Elizabeth and Jakeson/Drew's aborted wedding as well as back-from-the-dead Jake in the hospital scenes. I think there was a reference to Cam being 12 at some point? When Elizabeth was depressed because Jakeson/Drew left her and her kids because of the "you knew I was Jason" business and he was reconnecting with Sam, she reluctantly went to the Nurse's Ball with Franco. That was the very beginning of the Elizabeth and Franco relationship.  So I think Cam was supposed to be 12/13 when they got together. Spencer was supposed to be his "rival"; Spencer's 13th b-day was a plot point. Then Cam was SORASed to be 16. So according to GH's storyline, Franco has been a "father" to Cam for four years max. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Bringonthedrama

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

When Jonathan left, Elizabeth had a line (and I don’t recall who she said it to) that Cam and Jake Skyped with Lucky on a regular basis. So IF that’s still canon, then Cameron should fucking remember Lucky-even if he hates his guts now.

I'm sure he remembers who Lucky is (especially as Aiden was visiting him recently). But skyping isn't the same as a dad who takes you to the park to teach you how to throw a ball and attends your games.

But what I thought Cameron was doing was not ignoring Lucky's existence but trying to reach Trina on her level "Remember that you got to spend this time with your dad, I wish I had known my dad but he died before I was born".

[lala2]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Kid Cameron was STUCK being 7 for what seemed like three years or so. So he wasn’t a baby/toddler which could explain why he wouldn’t remember him. When Jonathan left, Elizabeth had a line (and I don’t recall who she said it to) that Cam and Jake Skyped with Lucky on a regular basis. So IF that’s still canon, then Cameron should fucking remember Lucky-even if he hates his guts now.

Haha! I know he was, but it hurts the story in terms of the timeline. I'm not sure how old the kid who played Cameron was, but he looked all of 7 to me when Friz started dating. Most of ht time he wasn't shown at all, but I remember him being young so if he doesn't remember Lucky, that's fine w/me. Lucky basically ditched all his kids!

I do remember that Skype line.  IIRC, Liz said it once, and then months later the writers acted like Lucky never spoke to the kids. The only consistent thing about Lucky is he hasn't been around. In my mind, he's a deadbeat. And I do hate that b/c GV's Lucky was such a good father to Liz's boys. He loved them so much. It's a shame how the show ruined Lucky when JJ returned that last time. 

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

I also blame FV for not recasting.

I'm fine w/them not recasting. Given how much crap GV and JY got for daring to take on the role JJ willingly surrendered TWICE, I don't want to see another actor in that position. Plus, the writers only seem to "write" for Lucky when JJ is in the role. No one else is going to get a good story, so it's best for the character to remain off canvas. 

Now, if they've decided to make Lucky a present dad . . . then they need to write it consistently. That's all I'm saying. Say Aiden is spending his Spring Break w/Lucky. Show Aiden talking to Lucky, etc. Start a scene w/Liz getting off the phone w/Lucky or Nikolas. 

On another board, someone told me if this occurred (i.e., the one-sided conversations or little mentions), it would just make ppl think Lucky was coming back. I strongly disagree. And even if the audience gets that idea, they will just have to get over it when Lucky doesn't come back. To me, the little mentions are better than him just dropping out of the picture entirely and being a deadbeat.  

45 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

No, I remember Lucky telling Claire (colleague) that Cam was 6, and that was when Lucky and Elizabeth had broken up, but he had not yet gone undercover and met the Irish lady, Siobhan. So I think Cam was around 7 when Siobhan had died and Lucky decided to leave Port Charles indefinitely. He was SORASed to somewhere between 10 and 12 years old in time for Elizabeth and Jakeson/Drew's aborted wedding as well as back-from-the-dead Jake in the hospital scenes. I think there was a reference to Cam being 12 at some point? When Elizabeth was depressed because Jakeson/Drew left her and her kids because of the "you knew I was Jason" business and he was reconnecting with Sam, she reluctantly went to the Nurse's Ball with Franco. That was the very beginning of the Elizabeth and Franco relationship.  So I think Cam was supposed to be 12/13 when they got together. Spencer was supposed to be his "rival"; Spencer's 13th b-day was a plot point. Then Cam was SORASed to be 16. So according to GH's storyline, Franco has been a "father" to Cam for four years max. 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember the dialogue and I just can't believe the kid who used to play Cameron was 12. He looked all of 8-yrs old to me in the beginning. That whole group looked young - Cameron, Josslyn, Spencer, and Emma. I have a hard time believing they were supposed to be 12. They behaved much younger if you ask me.  Weren't they all like 8 -10 when they were in that quad?!?!

Okay . . .  I just looked at the earthquake Friz wedding scene again, and I could see Cameron being 11-12 at that time, but Friz had still been dating for a couple of years at that point IIRC.  

We're never going to figure it out b/c they halted Cameron's aging for years, which really throws everything off. Josslyn is older than Jake, which makes NO SENSE. I honestly thought Cameron was still 8 when Friz started dating. That's how he looked to me. Whatever. At the end of the day, I can buy Cameron not really remembering Lucky. That's really all I'm saying. LOL! 

[ulkis]

13 minutes ago, lala2 said:

I'm fine w/them not recasting. Given how much crap GV and JY got for daring to take on the role JJ willingly surrendered TWICE, I don't want to see another actor in that position. Plus, the writers only seem to "write" for Lucky when JJ is in the role. No one else is going to get a good story, so it's best for the character to remain off canvas. 

GV didn't get that much shit (from the audience) after a while. Of course I am biased because while he was charming he also imo was a mediocre actor.

JY got a lot of shit because he was terrible in the role, imo.

Plus there are other people in charge now. I am sure none of them would have a problem writing for Lucky just because he wasn't JJ. And Friz could use a major shake up right now. I'm not even talking necessarily a break up but just them dealing with a Lucky who is in town would be more interesting than anything else they've come up with in the last year and a half for Friz.

[dubbel zout]

20 minutes ago, ulkis said:

JY got a lot of shit because he was terrible in the role, imo.

He was miscast, IMO, and it didn't help they had to sort of de-age him a bit so he didn't look too old. 

GV was charming, but he was Larry, not Lucky.

[lala2]

I don't know. I was never a LL2 (JJ and RH) fan, so I don't have fond memories of JJ/RH together. That "permanent lock" stuff was sickening to me.

I hold the very unpopular opinion of preferring her w/JY's Lucky and GV's Lucky over Jonathan's Lucky. Yes, I'm one of the very few who liked JY in the role. He did a good job w/the crappy material he got, IMO.

I just have no desire to see Lucky return. After GV was fired for JJ and then they made Lucky a deadbeat, my interest in the character died. He can just stay wherever he is for all I care. For me, Liz has moved on w/her life and understandably so. Lucky was her childhood sweetheart, but they were not meant to be. The love they had for each is long gone.  

I'm fine w/them shaking up Friz or even ending them even though I like them quite a lot. IMO, they are the "realest" couple on GH. They can shake up w/o Lucky though. Just the thought of him coming back to disrupt Elizabeth's life after ditching her and her kids years ago just grates on my nerves. It would be a problem for me. 

[teenj12]

Re: Cam/Lucky

My problem is it seems the show wants it both ways. Lucky as Cam's father is ignored/minimised but at the same time Cam calls Laura "grandma" and Lulu "aunt".

[Asp Burger]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Friz could use a major shake up right now. I'm not even talking necessarily a break up but just them dealing with a Lucky who is in town would be more interesting than anything else they've come up with in the last year and a half for Friz.

Where they seem to be headed in shaking things up for Franco/Liz is a revisit of Nikolas/Liz, with the story starting now involving Ava's plotting. There's probably a year of material in that. Becky does have chemistry with Marcus Coloma. I was looking at the clip of their reunion at the hospital in January, and they already had a nascent fan base in the comments (re: her saying she had to try not to faint, and his replying "I might" while looking at her a little more dreamily than one usually looks at a platonic friend). 

[ouinason]

I was one of the very few Niz fans, and I would be fine if they explored that a little bit again.  They kind of didn't really give any kind of reasoning for why they hooked up before beyond saying Liz was losing it (stupidly offensive) and Nik was still super screwed in the head over Emily (Rebecca was just.. and all of that was icky) so a closer look into their dynamic wouldn't bother me at all.

 

The only value I see in Lucky returning as any kind of obstacle for Friz is if they go with him coming back and wanting to be a big part of the kids lives, displacing Franco in that part of the family dynamic.  Sort of what Franco was concerned about with Jason, though Jason has basically handed Jake over by this point.  When they first started out and were moving in together, Drew made noises (reasonably concerned) but that evaporated and Drew and Franco became buddies.  Lucky who dislikes Franco and sees the kids every day, driving a bit of a wedge between them would drive the dude nuts (not a far walk) and could cause issues with Friz.  But, actual parenting and kids have never been a priority story for the show beyond weird plots and custody fights, so that wouldn't happen eve if Lucky was here.

 

I am not here for a LL2 redux.  They had several tries, it hasn't worked out, I'm done.

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

I just have no desire to see Lucky return. After GV was fired for JJ and then they made Lucky a deadbeat, my interest in the character died. He can just stay wherever he is for all I care. For me, Liz has moved on w/her life and understandably so. Lucky was her childhood sweetheart, but they were not meant to be. The love they had for each is long gone.  

I'm fine w/them shaking up Friz or even ending them even though I like them quite a lot. IMO, they are the "realest" couple on GH. They can shake up w/o Lucky though. Just the thought of him coming back to disrupt Elizabeth's life after ditching her and her kids years ago just grates on my nerves. It would be a problem for me. 

Lucky doesn't have to come back just for Liz though. Like I said, his mom, siblings and son are on the show. Both he and Liz are major characters in their own right.

There are characters I don't like but know they are popular/integral to the show. :side eyes Sam, Maxie, etc etc: I think Lucky is one of them too.

(I am an LL2 fan, but never cared for the permanent lock stuff myself. I've never re-watched that vow/wedding episode, it was sheer cheese.)

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

Where they seem to be headed in shaking things up for Franco/Liz is a revisit of Nikolas/Liz, with the story starting now involving Ava's plotting. There's probably a year of material in that. Becky does have chemistry with Marcus Coloma. I was looking at the clip of their reunion at the hospital in January, and they already had a nascent fan base in the comments (re: her saying she had to try not to faint, and his replying "I might" while looking at her a little more dreamily than one usually looks at a platonic friend). 

I've seen people saying he doesn't care about her, he's manipulating her, what have you, and while he is manipulating her I think it's pretty obvious he wants them to be friends.

Edited March 9, 2020 by ulkis

[ouinason]

That does remind me of the only part of the Nik/Ava story that bothers me, which is that they are both claiming to care about Liz/Franco at the same time they are actively hoping/scheming for their friend's spouse to cheat on them.  That's pretty shitty.  Ava sitting there and wondering aloud to Franco about Niz's history and very obviously thinking about possibilities was straight shitty since she has been there through all the crap that has gone down with them over the last few years.  Nik isn't looking much better, but at least there is more distance from that relationship for him.  

 

Not cool Cassidines!!

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, teenj12 said:

Re: Cam/Lucky

My problem is it seems the show wants it both ways. Lucky as Cam's father is ignored/minimised but at the same time Cam calls Laura "grandma" and Lulu "aunt".

I don't think that's having things both ways. What is he supposed to call Laura and Lulu otherwise? I think for convenience sake it works. Family connections don't have to be blood. 

As annoying as all of this is, as long as Elizabeth doesn't start telling the boys that they have to call Franco "dad" and there've been no other fathers in their lives, I'm good.

4 hours ago, ouinason said:

That does remind me of the only part of the Nik/Ava story that bothers me, which is that they are both claiming to care about Liz/Franco at the same time they are actively hoping/scheming for their friend's spouse to cheat on them.  That's pretty shitty. 

Same here. Way to treat your friends.