Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Did Michael just offer Carly a place to stay in Monica's house?

Just when I thought I couldn't hate him more.

that.. didn't even occur to me. like for crap sakes, seriously, show?

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I really don't know what to make of this whole Douchehat storyline. Can we get some forward movement?

I don't understand the pacing of this story. Nothing has happened. Curtis and Hatman have some version of the same conversation every time they meet.

[ciarra]

From the Transcript, though it's hard to tell who is talking.

"I’m leaving now, spence. Come on, esme. Let’s take a few minutes. Let’s cool off. No, I’m not spending another minute with small-minded people who have never and will never accept me for who I am. Oh, the problem is, is that we know who you are, and that’s why we don’t accept you. Are you coming or not? Esme, we all had those hot toddies. Okay, and with the icy conditions, I don’t think it’s safe for either one of us to drive right now. I’ve ordered a car, but it seems you’ve made your choice. You’re choosing them over me. Esme, I will go with you, but first, I’m gonna check on trina and then I will get our bags and I will meet you outside! Trina’s asleep, and we can send for our things. Let’s go."

 

[ffwbe]

I don’t think the show knows what to do with Michael and Willow. They probably know that happy couple with baby isn’t feasible long term unless they backburner them but but it’s hard to give them angst when they actually never want Willow to go against Michael or his family. Enter them revisiting Nina’s daughter for the zillionth time I guess. 

[Blackie]

39 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

SORASed Leo looks too old to be playing with Avery

 

And I thought he really didn't "play" with other kids, I thought that was one of the issues with him.

Esme already set fire to a car, so is it too much of a stretch to think she may have put something in the drink she handed to you just minutes before you blacked out? She seems pyscho enough to me that I would be going for a blood test.

 

[perkie1968]

45 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Did Michael just offer Carly a place to stay in Monica's house?

Technically no.  I assumed he meant she could stay in the guesthouse, which is where Willow and Wylie live.  

55 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Original Hatman is back a

Which begs the question, why did they bother paying another actor for one episode that literally did nothing but discuss how he thinks Pif should become a doctor.  I could understand if they needed him for today's episode, in which we find out from Marshall that Stella's knows the real reason he left but otherwise, why?  

[Auntie Velvet]

Oh, Spence, you credulous fool. I was half-hoping the driver would turn around and do the whip motion*

 

*even though in real life that is of course an antiquated, misogynistic thing to do.

[dubbel zout]

2 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I could understand if they needed him for today's episode, in which we find out from Marshall that Stella's knows the real reason he left

We've known this for a while.

It's gross that Trina has said more than once she doesn't remember anything that happened last night and no one is concerned. Just get her hydrated and she'll be fine. I'm not saying she needs to go to the hospital, but maybe try to figure out why she was hit so much harder than everyone else. 

[Daisy]

Just now, dubbel zout said:

We've known this for a while.

It's gross that Trina has said more than once she doesn't remember anything that happened last night and no one is concerned. Just get her hydrated and she'll be fine. I'm not saying she needs to go to the hospital, but maybe try to figure out why she was hit so much harder than everyone else. 

Yeup.

Trina says
A: she blacked out
B: it hit her harder than everyone else. 
C: she didn't feel good before.

 

but yeah sure let's talk about how we hate Esme. and toast to being friends. 

[perkie1968]

6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

We've known this for a while.

Well not really.  We've suspected and figured so but today Marshall, literally said it. 

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Well not really.  We've suspected and figured so but today Marshall, literally said it. 

no, they've talked about this before at the coffee shop and his place. And Irene (Stella's sister) knows too. 

[Semiglued]

25 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

We've known this for a while.

It's gross that Trina has said more than once she doesn't remember anything that happened last night and no one is concerned. Just get her hydrated and she'll be fine. I'm not saying she needs to go to the hospital, but maybe try to figure out why she was hit so much harder than everyone else. 

I find it hard to believe these three freshman in college didn’t have to sit through lectures about drinking, recognizing when someone is dangerously drunk, and people trying to roofie you and your friends. They make them sound so stupid to service this plot. 

I don’t know how long Spencer and Esme have been together but he made it sound like years (she was there for him when Nik “died”). It’s hard to believe this is the first time her crazy has surfaced. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

34 minutes ago, Jma14 said:

I find it hard to believe these three freshman in college didn’t have to sit through lectures about drinking, recognizing when someone is dangerously drunk, and people trying to roofie you and your friends. They make them sound so stupid to service this plot. 

Considering that they showed the effects of drinking when  Cam got drunk on the Haunted Star. But then again, this FAKAKTA show conveniently forgets what they write and constantly retcons shit.

35 minutes ago, Jma14 said:

I don’t know how long Spencer and Esme have been together but he made it sound like years (she was there for him when Nik “died”).

So, she's been there since she was a tweeny turd, like Spencer? Because wasn't he like, TEN, when Nik "died" for three years. Then 14 when recast Nik came to see him?

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Jma14 said:

I find it hard to believe these three freshman in college didn’t have to sit through lectures about drinking, recognizing when someone is dangerously drunk, and people trying to roofie you and your friends. They make them sound so stupid to service this plot. 

When Cam went to the kitchen, I thought that he was going to find something there for sure.

But he didn't. So I guess Esme drugging Trina is going to be her secret and hers alone.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

It's gross that Trina has said more than once she doesn't remember anything that happened last night and no one is concerned. Just get her hydrated and she'll be fine. I'm not saying she needs to go to the hospital, but maybe try to figure out why she was hit so much harder than everyone else. 

If they had been at a bar, I would be more critical of them not considering something being in Trina's drink.  But, honestly, even with a psycho like Esme present, I wouldn't necessarily suspect a drink made in my home to have been spiked. 

None of them have a lot of experience drinking and most people known that people can react to alcohol differently. I would be more likely to question whether I was coming down with something rather than person I know personally singled me out to nearly kill me with an non-therapeutic level dose pill of Tramadol in my hot toddy.*  

Once the truth is discovered, think the reaction from all Cam, Trina, and Joss with be "shocked but not surprised."

 

*I also would not have had a hot toddy at 18 - spiked cider, yes.

[lala2]

I didn't see the whole show today - I just caught the tail end and it left me wondering why the show is teasing this CarSon break up. Why? What is the point? Sonny doesn't seem interested in Nina at all. He never has. He just wants his horrible wife, so why is Carly being such a unreasonable bitch? Just reunite them and be done w/it! Now . . .  if the goal is to break them up - do it already and move on to some new stories. Sonny groveling after Carly and Carly being an uncompromising, nasty bitch is beyond boring and repetitive at this point! 

Oh, and Willow's missing BC  . . . . . 🙄  I guess we're going back to her being Nina's daughter AGAIN?!? Why? Can't that arc just remain dead? Maybe I'm wrong but I see no other point in her BC being missing. Who cares?  I couldn't care less about Willow or Millow. They should go to Paris, decide they love it there, and remain there!! And if the show wants to bring some drama to Millowtonin, give Willow a backbone and an opposing opinion on something. That would be a good start!

Why recast Leo again? What is up w/that?

I completely agree w/those who think Esme uploading Cam/Joss sex is awful and isn't something that should be shrugged off. That said, I also don't care. Cam/Joss should be very upset and it's awful, but I was hoping the months-long build up to this lame trip would result in something more interesting or just something else. I don't know. Drugging Trina and a sex tape is not what I was expecting. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by lala2

[RachelKM]

8 minutes ago, lala2 said:

I just caught the tail end and it left me wondering why the show is teasing this CarSon break up. Why? What is the point? Sonny doesn't seem interested in Nina at all. He never has. He just wants his horrible wife, so why is Carly being such a unreasonable bitch? Just reunite them and be done w/it! Now . . .  if the goal is to break them up - do it already and move on to some new stories. Sonny groveling after Carly and Carly being an uncompromising, nasty bitch is beyond boring and repetitive at this point! 

I agree entirely except completely inverse.  Sonny is a toxic waste of any woman's energy and I wish they would finally #FreeCarly and end this Carson BS. 

Nina is a annoying, dishrag who only finds her backbone when she's being a BSC Bitch and completely in the wrong. Let her live at dysfunction junction with Sonny for a while. It would serve them both.

But if they aren't going to let Carly escape, then stop fucking teasing me. 

[dubbel zout]

18 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

None of them have a lot of experience drinking and most people known that people can react to alcohol differently. I

I don't expect a forensic-level discussion, but something a brief "huh, it's weird Trina was hit so hard by the toddy" wouldn't have been amiss. And considering Esmé was the one who made and served the toddies, it's even weirder that Joss, at the very least, wasn't suspicious, given how she hates Esmé.

[lala2]

@RachelKM - Hahahaha! I hear you! I honestly don't care about CarSon. Reunite them. Split them up. It makes no difference to me. I am tired of the repetitiveness of their conversations though, and I do find it strange how unsupportive and unforgiving Carly is being toward Sonny given the circumstances.

Sonny didn't ask for amnesia or to fall in love w/Nina while having amnesia, and I don't think he should have to murder Nina in order to prove his "loyalty" or whatever Carly wants. That's just sick and weird.  It also doesn't help that the show, IMO, isn't teasing any Sonny/Nina stuff. I don't see a confused Sonny or a Sonny struggling w/feelings for Nina. All I see is a Sonny who wants his wife, which makes Carly's constant whining and complaining all the more annoying . . . to me.

I think we both can agree that whatever they plan to do w/these two, they need to do it already and start telling some new stories. This one is done! 

[statsgirl]

Trina is the most interesting of the teen set and a good actress so I doubly hate that she's only being used as a plot point in the Joss/Esme story.

I don't understand why they recast Leo. Old Leo looked like he might actually be autistic; Ne Leo looks like a regular kid.

Maybe just me but going to Paris for a long weekend seems like a stupid idea especially for someone who's never been there before. You spend at least one day just travelling.

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

Phyllis shows up and goes, do I know you? You look familiar. Stella goes. I've got the face

Are we finally going to get to Chekhov's DNA test?  Because that plot point is so old, it's mummified.

9 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Technically no.  I assumed he meant she could stay in the guesthouse, which is where Willow and Wylie live.

The gatehouse is part of the estate, which is Monica''s. But also where Willow lives. So Michael invited his mother to move in without asking her first if she's okay with it. Run, Willow, run.

2 hours ago, ffwbe said:

I don’t think the show knows what to do with Michael and Willow. They probably know that happy couple with baby isn’t feasible long term unless they backburner them but but it’s hard to give them angst when they actually never want Willow to go against Michael or his family. Enter them revisiting Nina’s daughter for the zillionth time I guess. 

FFS, just get a DNA test already. Who care anymore? There is already enough bad blood between Carly and Nina to fuel forever.

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

It's gross that Trina has said more than once she doesn't remember anything that happened last night and no one is concerned. Just get her hydrated and she'll be fine. I'm not saying she needs to go to the hospital, but maybe try to figure out why she was hit so much harder than everyone else. 

They (the writers as well as Joss) don't really care about Trina.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't expect a forensic-level discussion, but something a brief "huh, it's weird Trina was hit so hard by the toddy" wouldn't have been amiss. And considering Esmé was the one who made and served the toddies, it's even weirder that Joss, at the very least, wasn't suspicious, given how she hates Esmé.

I thought they kind of did talk about it and how they were surprised.  But then dismissed it as the only real experience any of them have with being truly drunk, or even more than a couple of sips of champagne, was Cam's unfortunate experienced at their dance.  So they just kind thought it was weird.

I agree that Joss not being at least a little suspicious is less likely.  But I figure she'll have an Aha moment soon

@lala2 

I think Carly explained it clearest today.  She's can't accept that Sonny can continue to harbor feelings for and even try to protect a woman who hurt Carly and all of his family so deeply. 

I think everyone understands that emotions don't just shut off because circumstances change.  But feelings do change as you learn new information.  You may have some lingering feelings, but there should be anger and the knowledge of what that person did should fairly quickly turn those feelings to ash in your mouth.

But Sonny has never really had a problem with people who were shitty to and or hated Carly, or rather with women who were shitty to Carly.  And I've always hated that.  Hurting his kids, though.  That should be a bigger deal.  He was more pissed off at Spencer for an implied threat to Avery of which Avery was utterly unaware than he has been a Nina for actually causing Avery to lose nearly a year of time with her father plus grieving him.

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

I think we both can agree that whatever they plan to do w/these two, they need to do it already and start telling some new stories. This one is done! 

Oh shit, yes.  Just pick a fucking lane and floor it.  None of us want this utter nonsense to go on. 

 

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

FFS, just get a DNA test already. Who care anymore? There is already enough bad blood between Carly and Nina to fuel forever.

On the one hand, yeah.  But on the other hand, I would love to see Nina's head explode processing the fact that Nelle, the unrepentant psychopath whom Nina has been waxing idyllic about what might have been if she (herself diagnosed psychopath who plotted a 20yo's death, induced a woman into labor and kidnapped the kid) had just been allowed to raise her turned out not to be hers after all. 

Or, if Nelle and Willow are both her daughters, I will enjoy Nina trying to down play how she's treated Willow, i.e. the one daughter she might get to know. Also, she'd have to accept about the fact that her psycho daughter attacked an concussed her other daughter while trying to kidnap Wiley the first time.  Good times.   

Edited February 1, 2022 by RachelKM
So many typos... I probably still missed some.

[Desperado]

I muted a lot of scenes today, but saw the Trina, Cam, Joss reunion: “we were SO worried! (“as we were having sex”, I added in my head.) What a ridiculous plot.

Too bad Spencer is so easily manipulated (“I’ll be alone in the world”...) 🎻🎻

With the weird story pacing, I’m wondering how long Valentin will spend in the trunk.
 

 

[dubbel zout]

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

So Michael invited his mother to move in without asking her first if she's okay with it.

Of course Willow is okay with it. Michael is the best son ever to be taking care of his mother like this. No one is more thoughtful. *rme*

[sacrebleu]

So ... We're just gonna gloss over the fact that Michael colored a picture of the Eiffel Tower and gave it to Willow, as a "cute" way of telling her he's whisking her off to Paris.

(They really act like children playing house)

 

 

[RachelKM]

17 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

So ... We're just gonna gloss over the fact that Michael colored a picture of the Eiffel Tower and gave it to Willow, as a "cute" way of telling her he's whisking her off to Paris.

(They really act like children playing house)

 

 

He colored it with Wiley, who in fact is a child.  And I thought it was a sweet way to segue to a surprise that he's planning them a trip.  But then I don't find them annoying the way people on boards seem to. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by RachelKM

[Daisy]

31 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

So ... We're just gonna gloss over the fact that Michael colored a picture of the Eiffel Tower and gave it to Willow, as a "cute" way of telling her he's whisking her off to Paris.

(They really act like children playing house)

 

i thought it was a really sweet gesture.

[Blackie]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Maybe just me but going to Paris for a long weekend seems like a stupid idea especially for someone who's never been there before. You spend at least one day just travelling.

 

 That just shows inexperienced travelers. I remember a few years back my son and his girlfriend thought they could go to Greece and travel around a bit over the Canadian Thanksgiving weekend (from Toronto) 😆  oh youth...

If he is taking the private Quartermaine jet, that saves some time.Michael's big plan would be arrive in Paris, go to some fancy hotel that has a view of the city, give Willow the gift of his studliness, walk around a bit and get a croissant and then come home. So doable (In a non

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

 

COVID world).

 

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

*I also would not have had a hot toddy at 18 - spiked cider, yes.

 

I don't know what Esme's definition of hot toddy is but a hot chocolate with Bailys is exaclty what I drank after skiing when I was 18 

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

So ... We're just gonna gloss over the fact that Michael colored a picture of the Eiffel Tower and gave it to Willow, as a "cute" way of telling her he's whisking her off to Paris.

(They really act like children playing house)

 

i thought it was a really sweet gesture.

 

I didn't mind it either. I prefer it to what ever big jester Sonny is concocting. *gesture*

Edited February 1, 2022 by Blackie
Sonny is the big jester lol

[rur]

 

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

@RachelKM - Hahahaha! I hear you! I honestly don't care about CarSon. Reunite them. Split them up. It makes no difference to me. I am tired of the repetitiveness of their conversations though

I don't care about them either. But over on B&B (a show I have on in the background between the noon news and GH) Brooke -- an alcoholic who had successfully stayed dry -- drank on New Year's Eve and everyone in town is still having the same conversation about it. It has literally been a month.  

Apparently good soap writers are hard to find.

 

[RachelKM]

On 1/31/2022 at 3:34 PM, statsgirl said:

Maybe just me but going to Paris for a long weekend seems like a stupid idea especially for someone who's never been there before. You spend at least one day just travelling.

It's impractical, but doable. The flight time is about 7.5 hours from NY to Paris.  If they flew private, it would be about 10 hours including customs. You would have about two full days in Paris. 

No one who wasn't very rich would do it.  But if you have the money its not that different from people who drive from Northern California to Southern California on Long weekends. I live in Sacramento and its 7+ hours to drive to LA in reasonable traffic.  Closer to 8 to get to Disneyland.

I agree, though, that I would want more time to explore.  But I love traveling and don't consider myself to have truly visited any city I haven't spent a least three days in and no country I haven't spent a least 10 days in in at least 2 cities. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by RachelKM

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

it left me wondering why the show is teasing this CarSon break up. Why? What is the point? Sonny doesn't seem interested in Nina at all. He never has. He just wants his horrible wife, so why is Carly being such a unreasonable bitch? Just reunite them and be done w/it!

The show really doesn't know what to do with them any more (much like Millowtonin). This wouldn't be a problem if they also didn't want to front burner Sonny and Carly and their relationship all the time. At this point, it is the homeopathy of stories, so diluted as to be practically non-existent.

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

She's can't accept that Sonny can continue to harbor feelings for and even try to protect a woman who hurt Carly and all of his family so deeply. 

Nina didn't put Sonny on that bridge or cause him to fall off it. Sonny himself is responsible for that. She didn't give him amnesia or daily dose him with a potion that kept him from recovering his memory (although that would have been soapy), instead she kept pushing him to find out his real identity while he kept refusing to. Yes, Nina should have said something when she saw that it was Sonny but even if she had told Carly right away, as she tried to do till Carly yelled at her yet again, Sonny's family would still have had three months of mourning him.

In comparison, Carly was never going to tell Nina that Nelle was her daughter, never let her grieve and get closure for her child.

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

for actually causing Avery to lose nearly a year of time with her father plus grieving him.

Six  months.  Meanwhile Carly was planning to keep Nina from seeing her only grandchild and Wylie from his grandmother forever.  Carly has no moral high ground here.

All three of them behaved badly but Sonny and Nina want to move on. And so do I. If I have to listen to any more of Carly and Sonny repeating the same thing endlessly, Ima gonna need to be paid. (Also, save Drew from becoming Carly's JasonV2 again.)

[RachelKM]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Six  months.  Meanwhile Carly was planning to keep Nina from seeing her only grandchild and Wylie from his grandmother forever.  Carly has no moral high ground here.

Six months was the part Nina was directly responsible for. But she was aware of the time Avery and Donny (as well as Sonny other family and friends) had already lost.  So my comment of nearly a year stands. 

Carly never planned to keep Wiley from his grandmother. She never made the connection (Stupid, I know. But that was what was written).  Carly was thinking that it was saving Nina from learning that the daughter she sought was not only dead, but had a miserable life and ultimately because a psychopath. Carly may have also worried that Nina, with her existing retconning of Nelle, Nina would come after her about Nelle's death.  But her intention wasn't all self-interested or malicious.

Nina, though, absolutely planned to keep Sonny from his family indefinitely.  She even bagged Jax to let her keep her life with Mike in NF. 

[nilyank]

The teen set (minus Spencer and Esme) are a bunch of goodie goodies that of course they don't question more why Trina was knocked out by a hot toddie. (Even though back in the day when we first heard about her, Trina was throwing wild parties with alcohol and messing around with condoms/boyfriends).

I haven't watch last week but did Esme put the burner phone in the bedroom where Cam and Joss eventually had sex in? I am sure the battery would have died by now if anyone found it.

[Daisy]

19 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

In comparison, Carly was never going to tell Nina that Nelle was her daughter, never let her grieve and get closure for her child.

and honestly. if the show had her say even once something akin to this, (and she had several chances to), I would be more on her side about this (you know, minus the whole. she whinging that her husband won't take a hit out on Nina). 

12 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Carly may have also worried that Nina, with her existing retconning of Nelle

with her what? I don't understand this. 

 

12 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Nina, though, absolutely planned to keep Sonny from his family indefinitely.  She even bagged Jax to let her keep her life with Mike in NF. 

and then turned around and told Sonny that they couldn't be together until Mike looked into his past. Yeah. Nina wanted that life. and she's owned that fact, but Sonny (even as Mike) always had agency and he chose not to. Yeah. Nina could have told Carly, should have told Carly, and I will be on Carly's side for that (and I even give Nina the two week not saying anything grace period because how Carly acted was wrong). I will also say - at that stage of the game. Nina owed Carly nothing. They weren't friends like Nina and Carly were when Carly knew about Nelle. She and Michael were trying to cut Nina off from her grandson. by that point. (again not defending  her, I've always said she was wrong). ultimately she was honouring Mike's wishes. and Mike didn't want to know. so she kept quiet. 

And that's what i need this show to get to any time now. Carly needs to know that fact that Sonny gave zero poops about finding out about his past period. That he felt he was bad and hated it.  That he felt at peace. and that's why he didn't feel like a victim. Nina was protecting his way of life (that he wanted). And IMO if the show was better that's what this argument should be about. not about protecting Nina/Choosing Carly yada  yada yada. this should be about that Carly (like Sonny) wants, craves power, and the fact they 'own Port Charles'. She craves, loves the violence as long as they are the ones dishing it out There is something inside Sonny that doesn't. want. that. anymore. But instead we're wasting time with what we're getting. 

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

with her what? I don't understand this. 

 

Immediately upon learning of Nelle's death, even before she learn Nelle was (maybe) her daughter, Nina began posthumously retconning Nelle as a victim of circumstances.  Carly, correctly as it turned out, was concerned that learning Nelle was her daughter would drive Nina even further to trying to totally rewrite who Nelle was, cast her as a victim, and then dig into Nelle's fall (which Carly did lie about but she had in fact tried to prevent). 

Nina overheard Carly and Jax talking about Carly withholding the truth about the last 2 minutes between her an Nelle and that Carly tried to save her and still ran to Jordan and demanded Jordan arrest Carly for murder. 

 

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

and then turned around and told Sonny that they couldn't be together until Mike looked into his past. Yeah. Nina wanted that life. and she's owned that fact, but Sonny (even as Mike) always had agency and he chose not to. Yeah. Nina could have told Carly, should have told Carly, and I will be on Carly's side for that (and I even give Nina the two week not saying anything grace period because how Carly acted was wrong). I will also say - at that stage of the game. Nina owed Carly nothing. They weren't friends like Nina and Carly were when Carly knew about Nelle. She and Michael were trying to cut Nina off from her grandson. by that point. (again not defending  her, I've always said she was wrong). ultimately she was honouring Mike's wishes. and Mike didn't want to know. so she kept quiet. 

Not quite right.  Nina held back before Jax returned to Nixon Falls.  And she changed her mind and agreed to have a date with Sonny the next day (which is the day Jax showed up.) She had moved on from her "you need to know your past" in less than 24 hours. And, yes, she begged Jax to let her fantasy of Princess and the Bartender go on like some demented Hallmark movie rather than tell the truth.

Nina may have owed Carly nothing.  But Carly wasn't the only one affected.  Sonny had a whole family including 2 young daughters and two young grandsons, one of those grandsons was the very grandson Nina was whining about being kept from (despite having no relationship legally or emotionally with Nelle nor having much met Wiley).

Carly never advocated for Nina to never spend time with Wiley.  She correctly noted that Nina wasn't in the right emotional state to be have a healthy relationship with Wiley. Michael disregarded that advice and the Nina did exactly what  Carly feared (again) and prioritize her own feelings over Wiley's emotional well being.  After which, Michael, without consulting Carly (or Willow which wasn't well done), decided that Nina couldn't see Wiley until she dealt with her grief.  Nina decided to act like Michael said never again.

As for Sonny (Mike's) wishes, this argument is also a misrepresentation of what Sonny said. When Nina first arrived, Sonny had apparently tried to find his identity and failed and took from that search that, if he had a family, they didn't even report him missing.

Sonny woke up with a wedding ring on.  From that, could deduce he had been married and (with his incorrect belief that he was missing and unreported) whoever he had been married to was dead or didn't want him back. Likewise, if he had children, they too didn't want him back.  But even in March, he was ambivalent.  He told Nina that he wanted to know but also worried what kind of man he would find in his past if no one was looking for him.

Over time as he built a life in Nixon Falls with a job, friends in the form of Phyllis and Lenny, and a possible new love in NIna.  As he did that, of course that would become more appealing to keep especially when compared to the unknown of which all he did know seemed dark. 

But Nina knew that, initially he had wanted to know and that his fear of the truth, such as it was, was based in a incorrect belief he was unwanted in his prior life. So, Nina's justification that "Mike didn't want to know" was based on a very biased interpretation of cherry-picked comments.

And I just wrote all of that knowing that I hate Sonny and sympathizing with him physically pains me.

Edited February 1, 2022 by RachelKM
Typos ... again

[Artsda]

Esme didn't want to go home with Spencer, but where was she going to go. They showed her as having nowhere to live but with Spencer.

Spencer is pathetic caving to Esme.

Shouldn't college students know that you don't pass out to the point of no memory over half a drink? What's these guys studying?

Leo looks double the age but reading a book on ABCs and asking to play with Avery?

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Nelle was her daughter would drive Nina even further to trying to totally rewrite who Nelle was, cast her as a victim, and then dig into Nelle's fall (which Carly did lie about but she had in fact tried to prevent). 

but to be fair.. Nelle was a victim of Nina's mom yah? (it's not excusing her behaviours). but wasn't Nina pumped full of stuff while pregnant? so i've always considered her seeing her a victim is being damaged as a fetus because of the drugs. And if she had a better upbringing (and treatment for that) maybe she'd not do the horrible things that she did. I think that's natural and not wrong (and I don't (honestly) remember Nina excusing any of the horrible things Nelle did. just that had she been there maybe it wouldn't have happened. 

Honestly. I will take your word for it. I honestly don't remember Sonny actively searching. but if you said he did. then he did and I'm wrong with some with what i said. :)

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

In comparison, Carly was never going to tell Nina that Nelle was her daughter, never let her grieve and get closure for her child.

Nina had already given up the search for her daughter and hoped that she was living a happy life. She came to terms that she might never know who her child was but she came to state of acceptance. She couldn't find any more leads and grieved what could have been and was going to move on with her life. She got a form a closure and more importantly she told Jax.

Jax who bright idea it was to keep quiet about Nelle falling over the cliff. Jax who egged Nina on for letting go of her search. Jax who thought that Nina shouldn't find out that Nelle had a little Orphan Annie Necklace that might have fit with Nina's. Jax who was in a relationship with Nina. 

And yet somehow, it suddenly was all Carly's fault,

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

but to be fair.. Nelle was a victim of Nina's mom yah? (it's not excusing her behaviours). but wasn't Nina pumped full of stuff while pregnant? so i've always considered her seeing her a victim is being damaged as a fetus because of the drugs. And if she had a better upbringing (and treatment for that) maybe she'd not do the horrible things that she did. I think that's natural and not wrong (and I don't (honestly) remember Nina excusing any of the horrible things Nelle did. just that had she been there maybe it wouldn't have happened. 

 

That might be true if Nelle was really Nina's daughter. But I still don't believe it until they do the dna test which the show has conveniently avoided to do so far.

[ciarra]

So.  How long is nursing school in the real world?  Willow is nearly finished.

[RachelKM]

@Daisy Yes, both Nina and Nelle* were Madeline's victims. Maybe the in utero drugging permanently damaged her. And Nelle was also Frank Benson's victim in how he treated her and treated taking her kidney like he was parting out an old Honda. But Nina waxing idyllic about what Nelle would have been had she been raised by Nina (herself not all that stable which apparently predated her coma) was a lot.  Heck, Nina was even romanticising who Nelle could have been before learning she was her (maybe) daughter.

Speaking of the Nelle/Nina connection, is Willow also being written as a blackmarket adoption baby, maybe even NIna's.  I have so many questions about this apparently fake birth certificate she was using her whole life.

*Assuming Nelle is in fact Nina's daughter.  I like a more scientific DNA test than Da NecklAce.

@nilyank Right?  It's always Carly that gets blamed. She also people claiming it was Carly who kept Spencer from Nik when it was actually Jax and Carly only learned about it months into the lie after bonding with "baby John."  And she only knew for about 2 or 3 weeks before it came out and initially argued against the lie when she learned the truth. 

[Artsda]

If they are revisiting Willow's birth since the birth certificate is missing then I bet Nina is her mother. 

 

[Cheyanne11]

53 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

But Sonny has never really had a problem with people who were shitty to and or hated Carly, or rather with women who were shitty to Carly. 

If he was, he'd have to kill most of the women in Port Charles.

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

don't understand why they recast Leo. Old Leo looked like he might actually be autistic; Ne Leo looks like a regular kid.

The other child actor who was playing Leo is on the spectrum, so recasting now that Leo has been diagnosed seems kind of bullshitty.

Willow's BC: if she is Nina's kid, that means Phyllis has been lying about there having been twins.  I'm sure her reasoning will be as annoying as any of the decisions she's made since she's been on the show.

Trina basically reading out of a "how to know if you've been roofied" manual and Joss being all "wow, strange--but let's talk more about evil Esme" and Cam being "to friendship!"  Oy.  Meanwhile, Spencer looks like wants to chew off his own arm to escape Esme, whose plan is still unknown.  Maybe we'll find out by Fourth of July.

[Daisy]

16 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

 Right?  It's always Carly that gets blamed. She also people claiming it was Carly who kept Spencer from Nik when it was actually Jax and Carly only learned about it months into the lie after bonding with "baby John."  And she only knew for about 2 or 3 weeks before it came out and initially argued against the lie when she learned the truth. 

i give (gave) Jax crap about it too. but at the end of the day, Jax apologized and said that he was wrong in what he did and shows regrets. Carly doubles down and goes. "hell yah I did, and i'd do it again."  and has no sense of self-reflection. that's why she gets my mouth and zero sympathy 

 

18 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

*Assuming Nelle is in fact Nina's daughter.  I like a more scientific DNA test than Da NecklAce.

 

lmao. that just reminds me on AMC when they were wrapping up Bianca/Babe's baby switch and Erica saw Miranda and she's like. "YAH! That's Bianca's baby, bitches!"  and people were like "We should get a DNA test," and Erica just tosses her hair back and goes. "I don't need D-N-A, I have K-A-N-E!" and you're like.. yah but you still kinda need DNA, sweetie lol

as to your other comments. again. I don't really think it's too much because I do think it's common to wonder what X would have been, if they had a normal childhood, and so on and etc. Like we even saw it with Peter. Valentin and Anna for ages kept saying, what if I didn't deliver him to Faison, what if we were just... whatever. he could have been normal and not the evul.  I'll admit being wrong again - but that's what Nina only did. if she had had a chance to be a mom maybe none of that would have happened. I honestly don't remember Nina ever excusing Nelle's actions though. Just that it might not have happened had she had had a stable experience growing up. (which could be true. Nelle could have still become a pyscho. we don't know) - and I don't really blame people for thinking that way. 

(to be fair. i missed most of Nelle's reign of terror and a lot of backstory, and YT doesn't have mucho clips about it)

[RachelKM]

12 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

If he was, he'd have to kill most of the women in Port Charles.

He doesn't have kill someone just because he doesn't appreciate his treatment of his wife. He could even just limit his reactions to telling them he doesn't appreciate it even if he chooses to remain friends.  But he has even sided with them publicly over her.  that is just not cool.

12 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Willow's BC: if she is Nina's kid, that means Phyllis has been lying about there having been twins.  I'm sure her reasoning will be as annoying as any of the decisions she's made since she's been on the show.

Not necessarily.

1) We don't know that, if Willow turns out to be Nina's that there were twins at all.  Phyllis gave a baby girl to a man in Florida whom she identified as Frank Benson 25 years later from an old photograph.  Phyllis said there was a woman with him whom she believed to be his wife. Assuming it was Frank, we don't know that he was taking the baby for himself, that the woman with him was his wife, or that the baby was Nelle. 

Frank was a shady asshole who could have been facilitating the illegal adoption for profit. The woman with him could have been Harmony or a prop so the nurse Madeline sent wouldn't know they weren't the intended parents.  And he could have taken the necklace from that baby and given it to his own daughter for his own reasons later.

2) Even if Willow and Nelle turn out to be twins, Phyllis said she wasn't present during delivery and was given the baby to take to a family who'd raiser after. Madeline could have sent another nurse to Lorraine and Douglas Miller.

11 minutes ago, Daisy said:

i give (gave) Jax crap about it too. but at the end of the day, Jax apologized and said that he was wrong in what he did and shows regrets. Carly doubles down and goes. "hell yah I did, and i'd do it again."  and has no sense of self-reflection. that's why she gets my mouth and zero sympathy 

Well, now Carly thinks she's been proven right.  (I'm assuming you are referring to the Nelle thing and not Spencer since she has admitted that was wrong ages ago.)

 Carly didn't actually have any reason to tell Nina.  She didn't owe Nina anything. Maybe she owed it to Wiley if you think having Nina in his life is a good thing.  But again, Carly hadn't made that connection.  And since she made the decision to withhold her speculation about Nelle's paternity, Nina has proven true everything Carly feared telling her would do.

15 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I honestly don't remember Nina ever excusing Nelle's actions though. Just that it might not have happened had she had had a stable experience growing up. (which could be true. Nelle could have still become a pyscho. we don't know) - and I don't really blame people for thinking that way. 

She didn't necessarily excuse her.  But she acted like Nelle was a victim in front of Carly, Nelle's actual victim. Nina actually got mad at Carly for accidentally knocking over Nelle's headstone (erected in the same cemetery as Morgan's headstone) hurragning her for allegedly doing it on purpose.  Nina gave no thought to the things Carly suffered at Nelle's hand or that Carly may not want to hear Nina's attempts cast Nelle as a victim.

20 minutes ago, Daisy said:

(to be fair. i missed most of Nelle's reign of terror and a lot of backstory, and YT doesn't have mucho clips about it)

Oh, goodness. There was so much.  

Edited February 1, 2022 by RachelKM

[Cheyanne11]

8 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

19 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

If he was, he'd have to kill most of the women in Port Charles.

He doesn't have kill someone just because he doesn't appreciate his treatment of his wife.

I was joking. 

[RachelKM]

3 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I was joking. 

I realized it was facetious.  But it really bugs me that Sonny just acts like looking down on and being openly disdainful of his wife is totes cool. 

[TeeVee329]

Sorry, Sonny and Ned having a friendly chat doesn't sit right with me.  And another of Ned's kids thinking Sonny is just the bee's knees, ditto.

I'm surprised they haven't dug Lucas (who?) out of mothballs so he could listen to Carly complain about Sonny and Nina, ugh.  This story needs to shift into another gear soon.

Previews...but I guess it's Drew's turn again, poor guy.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TeeVee329

[ffwbe]

1 hour ago, ciarra said:

So.  How long is nursing school in the real world?  Willow is nearly finished.

A BSN is typically 4 years- 2 years of pre-reqs and then 2 years of actual nursing school. I guess it’s possible that she already completed the pre-reqs when she got her teaching degree and could just apply straight into the nursing program but it’s unlikely. 

[nilyank]

16 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Sorry, Sonny and Ned having a friendly chat doesn't sit right with me.  And another of Ned's kids thinking Sonny is just the bee's knees, ditto.

 

I think the last time they had a friendly chat was the night that Lily was killed in the car bomb outiside of Luke's Place. Both couples Ned & Lois and Sonny&Lily were expecting a baby and they were pretty happy for each other.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, ciarra said:

So.  How long is nursing school in the real world?  Willow is nearly finished.

It depends at what level you want to be. A Practical Nurse is 2  years of community college. Registered Nurse is a 4 year university degree. Nurse Practitioner is the 4 year degree, 2 years practice , then a 2 year Masters degree. (I just looked it up for a friend.) Since Willow presumably has a B.Ed., it's possible that she could have done the nursing part in a year or two.

Or what @ffwbe said as I was typing.

Nina was already softening towards Nelle when Nelle was working for her. She even agreed to speak on Nelle's behalf at the custody hearing despite Carly asking Nina to spy and dig up dirt on Nelle. Then Carly went to see Nina again and convinced her to speak against Nelle.

It is true that both Jax and Carly withheld the information that Nelle is Nina's daughter. Jax has repeatedly apologized for it. I don't recall Carly doing so.

Carly's decision that "Nina is too unstable to be around Wylie" happened when Nina told Wylie that he had a birth mother other than Willow. Willow, not Wylie, freaked out. I don't think that it would hurt Wylie to know that his birth mother died. Certainly not as much as it would hurt him being told that she is a psychopath as Carly and Michael would do if forced to acknowledge her existence.

4 hours ago, Blackie said:

If he is taking the private Quartermaine jet, that saves some time.Michael's big plan would be arrive in Paris, go to some fancy hotel that has a view of the city, give Willow the gift of his studliness, walk around a bit and get a croissant and then come home.

Yeah. This is probably the show trying  to prove how much better Michael is than Chase, that Michael can sweep a girl off to Paris ( unlike Peter who only made it to Ontario).  But practically, it's a "If it'sTuesday, this must be Belgium" trip.

And not climate-friendly, which Michael is supposed to be.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Nina was already softening towards Nelle when Nelle was working for her. She even agreed to speak on Nelle's behalf at the custody hearing despite Carly asking Nina to spy and dig up dirt on Nelle. Then Carly went to see Nina again and convinced her to speak against Nelle

Carly didn't go back to Nina and convince her to testify against Nelle. Nina made that decision when she put together that Nelle had blackmailed Julian. Carly had no idea that was coming.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

It is true that both Jax and Carly withheld the information that Nelle is Nina's daughter. Jax has repeatedly apologized for it. I don't recall Carly doing so.

Carly's decision that "

No, Carly hasn't apologized.  She acknowledged that she didn't think about the implications regarding Wiley. But since then she has said she doesn't regret it because Nina did everything Carly feared she'd do if told.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Carly's decision that "Nina is too unstable to be around Wylie" happened when Nina told Wylie that he had a birth mother other than Willow. Willow, not Wylie, freaked out. I don't think that it would hurt Wylie to know that his birth mother died. Certainly not as much as it would hurt him being told that she is a psychopath as Carly and Michael would do if forced to acknowledge her existence.

Carly made that argument before Nina had her visit with Wiley. And again she was proven right. Blame the writers for making Carly right, but she was. 

Nina telling Wiley, a toddler, that his mother wasn't his mother may not have upset him. But it was likely confusing and his mother's reaction likely confused him more. It was evidence of Nina prioritizing her pique at Willow being referred to a Wiley's mother over Wiley's emotional wellbeing. And Michael made the decision without consulting Carly.

And literally NO ONE intends to tell Wiley that his mother was a psychopath and certainly not while he is a small child. Michael has said repeatedly they will tell him the truth when he is old enough to understand and he and Willow are consulting a psychologist about how and when.