Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[ffwbe]

I’m another one who doesn’t want to see Sonny in more mob stories. That storyline was played out and a lot of his enemies (Lorenzo, Jerry, the Zaccharahs) were a lot more charismatic and interesting than Sonny and Jason. Also, I never bought anyone being intimidated by Sonny. If he gets another enemy, it’ll just be more of Sonny being a hypocrite because he’s somehow a mobster that doesn’t deal with anything bad like drugs or guns. Unless they ever plan to acknowledge that Sonny and Jason are not the good guys, I’m not interested.

[lala2]

When it comes to Valentin versus Lulu, I will always be Team Lulu. Lulu has done nothing wrong - in my eyes - when dealing w/Valentin. In fact, she has been exceedingly deferential w/him. I hate that she has a child w/him b/c he is a disgusting, vile, poor excuse of a human being. His sad past and French speaking does absolutely nothing for me. He is still a horrible human being who hasn't gotten his comeuppance! He he has done nothing but awful things to her. He "murdered" her brother (and it doesn't matter that Nikolas didn't die b/c Valentin still attempted to kill him and thought he had). He tried to murder Lulu and her mother. He alienated her from her daughter. Why should she try and co-exist w/a man who has no respect for her and who would shoot her dead?!?! 

Alexis should have to deal w/Sonny b/c she slept w/him and had his baby. Carly should have had to deal w/AJ. Sonny should have to deal w/Ava b/c he slept w/her w/o protection. But Lulu shouldn't have to deal w/Valentin at all. She shouldn't have to co-exist w/him. She shouldn't even be in this position. She was violated in the worst way possible, IMO. As a woman, we have limited eggs. Valentin, on the other hand, has endless amts of sperm and can impregnate someone well into his 70s.  Women aren't that lucky. We don't have a lot of eggs and only have a short timespan to give birth.  Lulu's last viable egg was stolen and inseminated w/o her knowledge and w/the sperm of someone she did not choose. She did not choose Valentin. She did not love him. She did not want a child w/him, but this is where she is, and she's been trying to work it out. I have nothing but sympathy for Lulu. I feel for her. I wish she would wash her hands of Charlotte, the brat, but I'm not that lucky. 

[Bringonthedrama]

12 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

She didn't set out to have a child with him, which is an important distinction. And, I'm not sure how Alexis making the mistake of sleeping with Sonny should doom her child. Once you have a child, it's your responsibility to protect that child not just shrug your shoulders and say "Guess the child has to suffer because I'm a dumbass who made bad choices." That's one of the big differences between Alexis and Carly. 

Alexis has a psych/emotional pathology as a result of growing up with Mikkos as a father. She feared him and Helena and yet was dependent on them. She was attracted to someone/thing toxic as a result. In time, she has owned up to being a dumbass who makes bad choices about men. That was the origin of her recent therapy storyline. Whereas Carly had a stable upbringing and has been in an off-again, on-again relationship/marriage with Sonny over the years because she likes the authority of being associated with him and his money. She got back together with him even after her first-born got shot in the head because someone was trying to get revenge on Sonny. Then a Mob-world bombing/revenge mess, with Ava's stupidity mixed in, resulted in the presumed death of her second son. She and Sonny got back together yet again and have had another child together.

[GHScorpiosRule]

One thing puzzled me about Ava's conversation with Julian. When she told him to make sure Lucas' will was up to date or whatever, because who would get custody of Wiley...? Hello! Wasn't the SLS made Wiley's godfather? So if Lucas dies, and something happens to Brad, SLS becomes Wiley's guardian?

But I know, anvil-plot-anvil just so Valentin could overhear her say "codicil" and make him realize his stolen fortune isn't so safe after all.

[ciarra]

I know two women IRL whose husbands decided to sleep with other people.

Since this is a show with a hospital, I don't know why Liz doesn't tell Franco to get tested.  They made a big deal about STI's when Kiki and Dylan were on the show.  I guess only the younger set get them. 

 

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

Why should she try and co-exist w/a man who has no respect for her and who would shoot her dead?!?! 

Because they share a daughter, and said daughter loves her papa. I don't care how shitty the parents are to each other, you put it aside for your kid. Grit your teeth and bear it.

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

She did not choose Valentin. She did not love him. She did not want a child w/him

This is also true for Valentin, and he was just as violated as she was when it came to procuring his sperm. Having more genetic material is not a mitigating factor, IMO. Rape is rape.

It's so gross that this is the basis for their dealings, but there it is. Valentin is definitely being the shittier person, but that doesn't lessen what happened to him as far as the embryo goes.

32 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Wasn't the SLS made Wiley's godfather? So if Lucas dies, and something happens to Brad, SLS becomes Wiley's guardian?

Godparents /=/ guardians. Godparents are, in a religious capacity, responsible for seeing the child is raised in that faith. In a nonreligious capacity, it's a way for the kid to score more Christmas and birthday presents, LOL. Guardians are the legal custodians when parents are unable to care for their kid(s). Too often shows conflate these two terms, but they're very different. Doesn't mean a godparent can't also be a guardian, but one has a legal responsibility and the other doesn't.

All that said, I'm sure Michael would be made guardian of Wiley regardless, because he's such an upstanding person. And he's related to Carly and Sonny, the avatars of parenting excellence in Port Charles.

 

[mbluecpa]

19 minutes ago, ciarra said:

Since this is a show with a hospital, I don't know why Liz doesn't tell Franco to get tested. 

 

This, x100. She’s a nurse for God’s sake. Still bordering on rage blackout that Kim, an Ob/Gyn, would have unprotected sex with someone she doesn’t (physically) know, but she was off the rails. Deep breath. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Godparents /=/ guardians. Godparents are, in a religious capacity, responsible for seeing the child is raised in that faith. In a nonreligious capacity, it's a way for the kid to score more Christmas and birthday presents, LOL. Guardians are the legal custodians when parents are unable to care for their kid(s). Too often shows conflate these two terms, but they're very different. Doesn't mean a godparent can't also be a guardian, but one has a legal responsibility and the other doesn't.

All that said, I'm sure Michael would be made guardian of Wiley regardless, because he's such an upstanding person. And he's related to Carly and Sonny, the avatars of parenting excellence in Port Charles.

 

Regarding the bolded--Yes, I know that! But in Soap Opera/TV world, they're interchangeable! Or mean the same thing. That's why I didn't make the distinction. I mean, SheBeast managed to get Jason to be Joss' godfather, and last time I checked, Borg wasn't Catholic, or knows anything about Catholicism. Know what I mean?

[Melgaypet]

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I mean, SheBeast managed to get Jason to be Joss' godfather, and last time I checked, Borg wasn't Catholic, or knows anything about Catholicism. Know what I mean?

Well, Catholicism isn't the only Christian denomination that has godparents. What's weird was that Joss was baptized in a Catholic church even though I don't think either Carly or Jax are Catholic themselves. Though maybe Sonny made Carly convert before one of their gazillion weddings, I don't remember.

Now that I'm thinking about it, Jason might be Catholic or at least think of himself as Catholic, since I don't think he's been baptized or blessed by a priest or whatever you have to do to be formally converted (clearly, I'm not an expert). When Michael was a baby and the "official" story was that he was Jason's son, he was baptized in a Catholic church and I believe that was Jason's idea. Sonny's influence, I suppose.

ETA: It also drives me nuts when shows conflate godparents and legal guardians. While I'm sure that often parents choose the the same people for both roles, they are very distinct roles and not interchangeable.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Melgaypet

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I don't think either Carly or Jax are Catholic themselves.

Sonny is Catholic, though only when it's convenient. Carly probably doesn't care, so she goes along with it.

LOL that Sam is confused at why her parole officer wants to meet her. Uh, because it's your parole officer? Who's responsible for your reentry into society? Good lord, she's dumb.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Well, Catholicism isn't the only Christian denomination that has godparents. What's weird was that Joss was baptized in a Catholic church even though I don't think either Carly or Jax are Catholic themselves. Though maybe Sonny made Carly convert before one of their gazillion weddings, I don't remember.

Now that I'm thinking about it, Jason might be Catholic or at least think of himself as Catholic, since I don't think he's been baptized or blessed by a priest or whatever you have to do to be formally converted (clearly, I'm not an expert). When Michael was a baby and the "official" story was that he was Jason's son, he was baptized in a Catholic church and I believe that was Jason's idea. Sonny's influence, I suppose.

ETA: It also drives me nuts when shows conflate godparents and legal guardians. While I'm sure that often parents choose the the same people for both roles, they are very distinct roles and not interchangeable.

Gah! You're right. I was thinking of when SLS was baptized--Sonny is Catholic. But I don't think Jax is. And I don't know about SheBeast. But still, I find most soaps, when they show baptisms, the faith is always Catholic, even though I know it's not just Catholics who have them, or it's not the only denomination that has godparents.

I guess my point was, why have Ava even bring it up, since we, and everyone in show, know that SLS will take care of Wiley. Hell, he and SheBeast were already telling Brad, hey, we'll take care of Wiley, since you know, you have SO MUCH on your plate with Lucas being in the same place they have Alzheimer patients, and clearly you can only focus on one thing at a time. It's not like others have to deal with a multitude of things when tragedies, events happen and if they're parents, they also have to and do, parent.

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

When Michael was a baby and the "official" story was that he was Jason's son, he was baptized in a Catholic church and I believe that was Jason's idea. Sonny's influence, I suppose.

IIRC, Michael didn't receive a name on his birth certificate. Jason asked Bobbie how he would go about officially giving him a name.  Bobbie said there were a couple of ways and said christening him was one of them. She said she would check on the rules and Jason was like "the church has rules against babies?"  Which is why I remember.  I miss naïve, sort of childlike Jason.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Katy M

[Melgaypet]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

IIRC, Michael didn't receive a name on his birth certificate. Jason asked Bobbie how he would go about officially him a name.  Bobbie said there were a couple of ways and said christening him was one of them. She said she would check on the rules and Jason was like "the church rules against babies?"

I don't remember this. I don't doubt your memory, but this is also weird. Assuming Carly named Jason as father, all he had to do was choose a name when filling out his forms for the birth certificate. A christening has no legal standing. Oh, soaps!

[Pingaponga]

I just can't stand Sonny. He is told Nikolas is alive, and his first response is that Jax helping him is a crime.  Nothing about how Spencer will be so happy (not that I like Spencer), or that Laura will be happy, or Lulu... what a selfish ass.

[lala2]

37 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Because they share a daughter, and said daughter loves her papa. I don't care how shitty the parents are to each other, you put it aside for your kid. Grit your teeth and bear it.

I'm sorry but you just can't sweep aside him trying to MURDER her. He straight up tried to kill her and her mother, and for all they know, he KILLED her brother. He killed her brother for his inheritance and is unapologetically living in that man's home. You would have to be a literal SAINT to put all that aside just b/c of a child. I know I couldn't. If a man tried to kill me, I would want as little to do w/him as possible. I don't care if we shared a child. If some reason the ass was not in jail, I'd be civil but that's it. In all honesty, I'd make a play for sole custody and just cite his attempted murder of me as the basis for my claim. It cannot be in the best interest of the child to be w/a parent who has tried to murder the other parent! 

All I'm saying is Lulu shouldn't have to deal w/someone who sent her off w/goons to be killed, who killed her brother, and who tried to kill her mother. I would want absolutely nothing to do w/Valentin if I were Lulu, and I wouldn't want my child to have anything to do w/a POS like that either! 

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I don't remember this. I don't doubt your memory, but this is also weird. Assuming Carly named Jason as father, all he had to do was choose a name when filling out his forms for the birth certificate. A christening has no legal standing. Oh, soaps!

He didn't fill out the name on the BC because Carly took off and he thought Carly should be the one to name him.  When it didn't appear she was coming back any time soon, he realied kid couldn't go without a name his whole life. But, yes, of course he could have simply filled out an amended BC, which Bobbie also mentioned.

9 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

I just can't stand Sonny. He is told Nikolas is alive, and his first response is that Jax helping him is a crime.  Nothing about how Spencer will be so happy (not that I like Spencer), or that Laura will be happy, or Lulu... what a selfish ass.

Not to mention the fact, is Sonny under the impression that he's a law-abiding citizen?

[lala2]

7 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

I just can't stand Sonny. He is told Nikolas is alive, and his first response is that Jax helping him is a crime.  Nothing about how Spencer will be so happy (not that I like Spencer), or that Laura will be happy, or Lulu... what a selfish ass.

Actually, I'm happy he's focused on Jax b/c I was going to blow a gasket if he had been angry about Nikolas keeping a secret. That would have been OOC if you ask me. This response from Sonny is exactly what I expected and is in character.  Of course he's more concerned w/Jax's lies than Spencer, Laura, or Nikolas. 

[Melgaypet]

12 minutes ago, lala2 said:

Actually, I'm happy he's focused on Jax b/c I was going to blow a gasket if he had been angry about Nikolas keeping a secret. That would have been OOC if you ask me. This response from Sonny is exactly what I expected and is in character.  Of course he's more concerned w/Jax's lies than Spencer, Laura, or Nikolas. 

I agree, I wouldn't have bought it all if Sonny had been outraged on Laura, Lulu, or Spencer's behalf. Maybe 20 years ago I'd have believed Sonny cared about Laura's pain, but not today. Lulu isn't his daughter-in-law anymore, and he only paid attention to his nephew about once a year when the brat actually lived in town. His endless pissing match with Jax is far more important to him than the unimportant feelings of two women and a kid.

[dubbel zout]

Ugh, so Jax helping a fugitive is a crime, but Sonny getting false documents for Dev is totally different. So, so typical of Sonny, but I just can't, you guys. His idiotic obsession with Jax is often amusing, but this is when it does nothing but irritate me.

That whole discussion about trust was so laughable. When Carly lies, it's an international outrage, but when Sonny does it, it's "to protect" people.

I'm loving all the sequins on the women at the wedding.

 

[lala2]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I agree, I wouldn't have bought it all if Sonny had been outraged on Laura, Lulu, or Spencer's behalf. Maybe 20 years ago I'd have believed Sonny cared about Laura's pain, but not today. Lulu isn't his daughter-in-law anymore, and he only paid attention to his nephew about once a year when the brat actually lived in town. His endless pissing match with Jax is far more important to him than the unimportant feelings of two women and a kid.

I guess we spoke too soon since he's ordering his guards to look out for Spencer and Nikolas, but I'm still fine w/his response. He's more upset about Carly keeping a secret, which is both hypocritical and understandable. Carly threw a fit when she learned he could walk, so I can see why he expected her to tell him about Nikolas. But that said, Sonny has kept many a secret from Carly, so he can't be all that upset that she kept one from him! 

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Because they share a daughter, and said daughter loves her papa. I don't care how shitty the parents are to each other, you put it aside for your kid. Grit your teeth and bear it.

Kids like lots of things that aren't great for them.

[Melgaypet]

12 minutes ago, lala2 said:

But that said, Sonny has kept many a secret from Carly, so he can't be all that upset that she kept one from him!

Sonny is the king of It's Wrong If Done to Me But Not If I Do It.

Those two so deserve each other. In that twisted sense, you can call me a Carson shipper. This is why I'm torn when someone suggests re-pairing Jax and Carly because Ingo and Laura Wright have much more chemistry. Because I agree that's true, but, lord, Jax deserves so much better. (I thought the same thing about Laura Wright and Sean Kanan.)

[ulkis]

40 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Lulu isn't his daughter-in-law anymore

I think whatever affection Sonny has for her is the same because it was based on her being Luke and Laura's daughter, not his in-law. Not that either way he would ever think of her considerations first, heh.

[YaddaYadda]

Sonny is such a stupid man-child. How dare you not tell me? How dare you not trust me? How dare you keep sikrits with Jax? Jax committed a crime.

I wish Sonny's glass house would finally cave in on his dumb-dumb head.

So Valentin tossed Ava down the parapets. What a charmer. I was hoping until the last second that he would go over and die already. But no such luck. The men on this show sure love bullying Ava, but that's probably because girlfriend has a bigger pair of balls than they do.

Aww, are Sam and Jason breaking up? Say it ain't so! [/sarcasm]

[Linny]

I'm so pleased that in addition to Ava winning today's Sparkle Showdown (guess there's no better occasion for all the women to glitter than a NYE wedding, and that dress was FAB), her name will be next to Nik's on the list of enemies Valentin has unsuccessfully eliminated. Ain't no way a shove off Wyndemere will fell the mighty Ava Jerome, the woman who has survived Sonny Corinthos and Ryan Chamberlain, but thanks for playing, Valentin. Both MW and JPS did a great job with making that scene truly menacing and not cartoonish. 

Carly rightly tells Sonny that with his proven track record of hotheaded decisions, she was scared to share sensitive information with him, and all the infallible asshole can do is shake his head in disappointment. He's going to be such a crybaby that she trusted Jax while taking zero responsibility for creating the environment that has made Carly afraid of his reactions, and I hate him so much.

It is so damn annoying that we keep revisiting the "oh NO, JaSam are breaking up" fakery when the option to really break them up is sitting RIGHT THERE. At least this time the obstacle is appropriate and isn't totally contrived like the Shiloh stuff, but c'mon, how long are we going to be stuck on this Ferris wheel? The show clearly has no idea how to make these two interesting or sizzling and hopes this faux angst will pass muster, and it very much doesn't. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

Drunk drivers don't set out to kill anyone.  The people they kill are just as dead.  Motivation is not that great of a distinction when it comes to results.  For that matter, Jason and Sonny don't intend to be dangerous to their children. Whatever else bad there is to say about them, that much is true.  But, they are just as much of a danger.

I guess we're at an impasse then on this point because I don't think accidentally getting knocked up is at all comparable to a drunk driver killing someone and I'm a big believer in motivation and intent meaning something. While killing someone while drunk is horrible and you deserve to suffer the consequences, I don't think it makes you a horrible person with no redeeming qualities. Intentionally setting out to kill someone it would depends on the motive. Say vigilante versus serial killer.

And, I'm not sure I really agree about Sonny and Jason not intending to be dangerous to their children. Do they want their kids to get hurt? No. And, while they employ bodyguards and things like that, they really do the bare minimum to protect those kids. They both chose a dangerous "job" and chose to have children in their lives. If they really didn't want to cause harm to the children they would either leave those jobs or stay away from their kids. I mean, Jason barely spends time with his kids and is a very lackadaisical parent (if he sees them it's fine, if he doesn't it doesn't seem to matter to him much) but he doesn't make an effort to make sure to completely stay away from them. And, Sonny is the exact opposite, and is maniacally possessive over his kids and slams anyone who says he puts his kids lives in danger.

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

I'm sorry but you just can't sweep aside him trying to MURDER her. He straight up tried to kill her and her mother, and for all they know, he KILLED her brother. He killed her brother for his inheritance and is unapologetically living in that man's home. You would have to be a literal SAINT to put all that aside just b/c of a child.

Yeah, this! I get the point about putting your children first but I would think it would be pretty hard, even for your child's sake, to make nice with your brother's "killer." Up until recently, I think Lulu has actually done a fairly good job of making as nice with Valentin as she could and putting up with him considering everything he's done to her and her family. 

 

44 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Those two so deserve each other. In that twisted sense, you can call me a Carson shipper. This is why I'm torn when someone suggests re-pairing Jax and Carly because Ingo and Laura Wright have much more chemistry. Because I agree that's true, but, lord, Jax deserves so much better. (I thought the same thing about Laura Wright and Sean Kanan.)

Yep, that's where I'm at. I actually liked Jax and Carly once upon a time and they do have chemistry together, but he does deserve more and I can't imagine why he'd put himself in that position again knowing nothing has changed and that Carly will always put Jason and Sonny first. And, I hated the idea of a pairing between Carly and AJ (no matter the chemistry) given how much she destroyed his life.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I'm a big believer in motivation and intent meaning something. While killing someone while drunk is horrible and you deserve to suffer the consequences, I don't think it makes you a horrible person with no redeeming qualities. Intentionally setting out to kill someone it would depends on the motive. Say vigilante versus serial killer.

I didn't say anything about whether or not anybody was horrible.  I am talking about having to live with the consequences of your actions.  When you choose to have sex with someone and get pregnant (or she gets pregnant), the consequence, if you will, is co-parenting (how I hate that word) for the next 18 years.

 

[FilmTVGeek80]

I know this show likes to think Sonny/Carly and Jason/Sam are these awesome, root-worthy pairings (and I know they both still have their fans) but there absolutely no stakes in any of their dramatic scenes.

I just rolled my eyes when Carly asked what this meant for them. Is the show really expecting us to worry and wonder if this will break them up? Carly has taken Sonny back despite him cheating on her numerous times, not to mention the little issue of their kids being in constant mortal danger. And Sonny's forgiven Carly countless times. There's no drama here especially since it was such a small lie and Carly didn't even keep it for that long. 

Wonderful, yet another storyline where Jason and Sam's grand romance will be tested and we're supposed to be all sad because they'll have to fight to be together and rejoice when they find ways to see each other again. *yawn* I know that since SBu's been back we haven't really seen the mob side of things much (and like others have said upthread, I don't miss those storylines) but I think we're still to assume that not only is Jason still a criminal, but still a killer as well. Sam in the preview "Can we fight this?" I'm sure it hasn't occurred to her how they can easily solve this problem. By telling her boyfriend to stop collecting blood money by murdering people. That seems like a viable option. Instead, I'm sure we're going to be expected to think that the parole board are big meanies who just don't understand how epic their love is. I'm sure we're not at all supposed to think both should be having a serious talk about Jason making a career change. 

While I know Ava's a murderer, too that was so cold-blooded how Valentin just tossed her over without a second thought. At least we're finally seeing again why anyone thinks this guy is scary and dangerous. I know she manages to survive it but I'm not sure how she does. 

[rur]

35 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

 

Wonderful, yet another storyline where Jason and Sam's grand romance will be tested and we're supposed to be all sad because they'll have to fight to be together and rejoice when they find ways to see each other again. *yawn* I know that since SBu's been back we haven't really seen the mob side of things much (and like others have said upthread, I don't miss those storylines) but I think we're still to assume that not only is Jason still a criminal, but still a killer as well. Sam in the preview "Can we fight this?" I'm sure it hasn't occurred to her how they can easily solve this problem. By telling her boyfriend to stop collecting blood money by murdering people.

I may be wrong, but I'd been thinking (since the day she got out, actually) that the reason Sam was going to have to live apart from Jason would be that he was a convicted felon. He did that stint in Pentonville to keep an eye on Michael, but I don't think good intentions would erase the record that he was incarcerated there. But, then, again, who knows what reason the show will come up with. 

[Hater]

I'm sure once Jason finds out Peter was behind everything then Sam's parole will be null and void and they're back seeing each other again.  I'm on the edge of my seat!

[xfuse]

23 hours ago, nilyank said:

When Carly realized  that she was pregnant, she didn't know who the father was until after Michael was born.

Much, much later Carly married AJ in an hair-brained plan to get full custody of Michael.

She was still pregnant with Michael when she overheard AJ saying that if the kid was his, he was going to take the baby away from her and never let her see him. Tony basically said the same thing earlier. That is why she ran to Jason for him to claim as the father.

She married AJ so they would lose custody of Michael to Jason. She figured with AJ's drinking and her being in the mental institution they would lose and Jason would win. She wanted Michael far away from the Qs especially Edward and making him a little Q clone  

[YaddaYadda]

4 minutes ago, Hater said:

I'm sure once Jason finds out Peter was behind everything then Sam's parole will be null and void and they're back seeing each other again.  I'm on the edge of my seat!

Make sure you don't fall off from shock. 

[ulkis]

48 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I know this show likes to think Sonny/Carly and Jason/Sam are these awesome, root-worthy pairings (and I know they both still have their fans) but there absolutely no stakes in any of their dramatic scenes.

I don't think the writers care about them. imo they have to write for them because Valentini or Varni or whoever says they have to. And then they're probably hamstrung by not being able to give them any flaws or teeth and we get these scenes.

[statsgirl]

Stupid couple #1: My eyes almost rolled right out when Sam said that she only had a few minutes because her parole officer was doing a home visit and she had the chance to show her what a great mother she is. First of all, why are you even going to the Metro Court bar then? To tell Michael you've been invited to Shiloh's memorial? Can't this wait till tomorrow? Second, how are you going to show what a great mother you are when the kids are always at their grandmother's?

LOL at Spinelli looking into who is organizing the memorial. I guess neither Sam McCall P.I. nor Hitman Jason can call up and ask.

Stupid couple #2: Sonny yelling "How could you not trust me?!?" and Carly not replying "Because when I did tell you, first you wanted to get Jax deported and break up our family, and then you called your henchman and told him that Nikolas is still alive which I told you to keep secret. I didn't trust you because I know you're not trustworthy. "

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

ETA: It also drives me nuts when shows conflate godparents and legal guardians. While I'm sure that often parents choose the the same people for both roles, they are very distinct roles and not interchangeable.

We chose different ones: the fun person for a godparent; the steady, responsible one to be guardian.

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

 For that matter, Jason and Sonny don't intend to be dangerous to their children. Whatever else bad there is to say about them, that much is true.

But they know that they are just by being in the mob. Drew told Sonny that when he said that he was getting out. And they don't care.

If I jaywalk with my child on a busy street and he gets hit by a car, I may not have intended it to happen  but I am culpable because I knew that the chances of it happening were very high but I did it anyway.

[ulkis]

52 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

While I know Ava's a murderer, too that was so cold-blooded how Valentin just tossed her over without a second thought. At least we're finally seeing again why anyone thinks this guy is scary and dangerous. I know she manages to survive it but I'm not sure how she does. 

It's making me wonder if JPS is going on vacation or something. There were no mitigating circumstances to that. 

[Melgaypet]

10 minutes ago, xfuse said:

She was still pregnant with Michael when she overheard AJ saying that if the kid was his, he was going to take the baby away from her and never let her see him. Tony basically said the same thing earlier. That is why she ran to Jason for him to claim as the father.

When AJ first suspected he might be her baby's father, he was a lot more reasonable. Carly convinced him it was impossible. People forget that AJ and Carly were actually friends, making her treatment of him all the more heinous. When he threatened to take the baby from her, it was after months of her lying to his face and, IIRC, he had figured out her shenanigans with the booze and the laundry cart, which could and should have landed her ass in jail, so he was understandably angry. Tony was a dick at the time (no one forced you to sleep with your stepdaughter, dude), but he, too, was being lied to and used.

Carly was no innocent victim trying to keep her baby away from the big, bad men. The situation was her doing and she began a lifetime of running to Jason to clean up her mess.

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But they know that they are just by being in the mob. Drew told Sonny that when he said that he was getting out. And they don't care.

Yes, just as if you have sex, you know that you may have a baby.  That was my whole point.

12 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If I jaywalk with my child on a busy street and he gets hit by a car, I may not have intended it to happen  but I am culpable because I knew that the chances of it happening were very high but I did it anyway.

Again, proving my point.

[FilmTVGeek80]

40 minutes ago, xfuse said:

She was still pregnant with Michael when she overheard AJ saying that if the kid was his, he was going to take the baby away from her and never let her see him. Tony basically said the same thing earlier. That is why she ran to Jason for him to claim as the father.

She married AJ so they would lose custody of Michael to Jason. She figured with AJ's drinking and her being in the mental institution they would lose and Jason would win. She wanted Michael far away from the Qs especially Edward and making him a little Q clone  

AJ found out about the laundry cart incident, where she drugged him and doused him with alcohol to make him think he fell off the wagon. He was understandably angry and completely justified at that point of thinking Carly was a raving loon who had no business raising a child. Carly was already trying to keep AJ forever away from his child, so I never felt sorry for her that AJ wanted full custody.

That plan just proved how dumb, and how much of a sick person, Carly was. Jason, I think had already been arrested a ton of times at that point and AJ wasn't drinking at the time. I can't remember if she married him with the intention of pushing him off the wagon again, which would show she learned nothing when she drugged him before.

The Qs of course had their own dysfunctional issues, but better Michael be a Q clone than shot in the head which is what happened thanks to Carly's choices.

[Melgaypet]

18 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, just as if you have sex, you know that you may have a baby.  That was my whole point.

I hope this criticism applies to the fathers as well. Because Sonny, who apparently has never used a condom in his life, has had sex with a lot of women he presumably wouldn't have chosen to have children with. Claudia Zacchara. Ava Jerome. Carly, the first time. Teenage Olivia. Is he to blame for picking sexual partners who might make suboptimal co-parents? Or is it only women who should know better?

I think that's what bothers me about this argument. It seems to be holding women responsible for the behavior of men. I don't know if that's what you meant, Katy M, and I don't want to put words in your mouth. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think it's right for a woman to cut her child's father out just because he's inconvenient. Haven't I just been ranting about Carly and AJ? But I don't think a woman should be obligated to expose her child to a violent, dangerous man, no matter how ill-advised it may have been for her to sleep with him in the first place. At the very least, the child didn't choose their own parents, why should they be punished?

[FilmTVGeek80]

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, just as if you have sex, you know that you may have a baby.  That was my whole point.

Your whole point seemed to be that Alexis deserved no sympathy because she accidentally got pregnant, which I disagree with. She didn't set out to get pregnant and once she did she took the appropriate steps to protect her child.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I hope this criticism applies to the fathers as well.

Of course it does.  They are exactly 50% of the equation in baby making.

 

10 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I think that's what bothers me about this argument. It seems to be holding women responsible for the behavior of men. I don't know if that's what you meant, Katy M, and I don't want to put words in your mouth. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think it's right for a woman to cut her child's father out just because he's inconvenient. Haven't I just been ranting about Carly and AJ? But I don't think a woman should be obligated to expose her child to a violent, dangerous man, no matter how ill-advised it may have been for her to sleep with him in the first place. At the very least, the child didn't choose their own parents, why should they be punished?

My point is (in all my posts, I'm assuming sex is consensual, and there is no rape involved, just to be clear) that women do not own children. They are both their father's and mother's.  The only one that should be able to make the determination that one can't see them is a judge.  And that should be because of a good reason besides woman (or man) does not like the other parent, unshared values, or anything else.  These are the kinds of things that you can think of before you decide to have sex.  If you're not willing to raise a child with someone, keep your pants.  That goes for both sexes.

[Katy M]

24 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Your whole point seemed to be that Alexis deserved no sympathy because she accidentally got pregnant, which I disagree with. She didn't set out to get pregnant and once she did she took the appropriate steps to protect her child.

By lying and subterfuge.  Not cool.  So, yeah, no sympathy.  I haven't gotten through life without ever having sex with a mobster. It's not that hard.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

25 minutes ago, Katy M said:

My point is (in all my posts, I'm assuming sex is consensual, and there is no rape involved, just to be clear) that women do not own children. They are both their father's and mother's.  The only one that should be able to make the determination that one can't see them is a judge.  And that should be because of a good reason besides woman (or man) does not like the other parent, unshared values, or anything else.  These are the kinds of things that you can think of before you decide to have sex.  If you're not willing to raise a child with someone, keep your pants.  That goes for both sexes.

Generally, especially in real life, I agree with you. I hate the way sometimes there still seems to be this idea that mothers should automatically have more say in a child's life than their fathers. I don't agree. Right now on Days of Our Lives there's a situation with a mother who kept her child from the father for really no good reason and I'm totally on the father's side there. I was on AJ's side versus Carly as well. But in Alexis's case (and in most of the custody cases against Sonny or Jason or even Julian) I am on the mother's side because they have a damn good reason for wanting to keep the kids from those men. Sometimes the courts fail. There are people who are trying to keep their children from abusive people and the courts might not help because they can't prove that abuse. I would have no problem whatsoever with people in those situations taking the law into their own hands to protect their kids. I have even less issue with it when it's a soap opera we're talking about. Alexis went through the courts and it failed her. I had no problem with her doing everything she could to protect her child. Again, it comes down to so what if Alexis made a huge mistake sleeping with Sonny. Why should her child pay the price? In your scenario, once you make the choice to sleep with someone all bets are off and the kids should suffer the consequences.

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

By lying and subterfuge.  Not cool.  So, yeah, no sympathy.  I haven't gotten through life without ever having sex with a mobster. It's not that hard.  

Congratulations, you don't live in a soap opera. A lot of times the pickings are slim, or the woman makes a crappy choice. Again, doesn't mean they shouldn't do whatever it takes - including lying and subterfuge - to protect their children. Better that than doing nothing and just not protecting your child at all (ask Carly how well that's worked out for her kids when it comes to their safety.) If all we were talking about was Alexis sleeping with Sonny and having to pay the consequences than I might agree with you that I had no sympathy for her. Where my sympathy comes from was that she accidentally got pregnant (we don't know how - the condom could have broke, failed, they could have been one of the unlucky 2% it didn't work for) unlike other women on this show like Carly, she took the right approach that her mistakes didn't matter and that her child's welfare was what counted. 

[Auntie Velvet]

I hope that was just a little mini-fantasy of ValenTEEN's. Ava's dress and her smug attitude didn't have nearly enough time to shine yet.

If the shove was real, she'll probably survive and come back to wreak havoc at the wedding, but not nearly as fabuously.

[WendyCR72]

I am going to ask that the talk about women hiding pregnancies or paternity from the fathers please be taken to the history thread. Also, please keep it civil, gang. We all have opinions. Let's respect both sides. Thanks a jillion and carry on in the proper thread.

[bannana]

41 minutes ago, Auntie Velvet said:

Ava's dress and her smug attitude didn't have nearly enough time to shine yet.

That is exactly what I thought!  What a waste of a fabulous look; dress, hair and makeup!

If it was real, we heard a splash.  So who do we think will rescue her? Nikolas?

[TeeVee329]

Echoing everyone, shut up Sonny, you commit crimes every day, YOU RUN THE LOCAL MOB!

Edited January 3, 2020 by TeeVee329

[ByaNose]

I guess Ava will interrupt the nuptials walking in liked something the cat dragged in. That wasn’t very nice of him. Also, dumb since he still doesn’t know where the codicil is. 

[TeeVee329]

It was nice to get a classic parapet push, though.  It's been too long.

[ByaNose]

Just now, TeeVee329 said:

It was nice to get a classic parapet push, though.  It's been too long.

And, she really was drinking too much. LOL!!!