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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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I laughed so hard at the ending that my husband came running to see what was so funny.  So I rewound, and then he busted out laughing. That was so hilariously bad. 

And Carly going on about how Willow "took my grandson to DC with her boyfriend!" First of all, it's not like they left the country. And Willow didn't up and move there, she went for like a day to see the swearing in. Second, like Carly wouldn't have pulled exactly that same kind of shit herself in Willow's position. Hey, Carly, I bet Monica had all kinds of "my grandson" type moments when Michael was a kid. As I recall, you didn't give a single solitary fuck.  And Jason actually made me laugh a couple times today. "What do you want me to do? I already beat him up once. Do you want me to fly to D.C. and beat him up again?"  

It would have been nice if Michael had acknowledged that their marriage actually started going bad well before there was any inkling of a thing between Willow and Drew. He and Willow were routinely keeping big things from each other (like her cancer, him hiring Dex to get dirt on Sonny, him finding out that Nina was the one who busted Drew and Carly). And they were often not on the same page about some major issues. That marriage was going to fail one way or another even if Drew didn't exist. Them both wanting an intact family for the kids probably kept them together much longer than they otherwise would have lasted. 

  • Like 6
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7 hours ago, JMO said:

I felt like I'd missed a few scenes at the beginning of today's episode because they seemed to leap into a few plot points without giving us any transition.

I've been watching those reruns that never seem to leave the Ryan/Kiki/Oscar era.  Back then, there was also a serial killer whose identity was already known to the audience, which fact heightened the suspense. But that was because the serial killer was playing the role of a well-respected member of the community (Ryan impersonating Kevin), which allowed him access to everyone and put everyone at risk.  It's hardly exciting when the worst of the worst, already isolated from most people, is the killer, and all of his victims are hospital patients.

Pet peeve, brought on by Willow's attire.  I get it's supposed to be a sexy style, but if you wear a sweater on only one shoulder, doesn't the other get cold? 

Thank you to @Bringonthedrama, because I hadn't tied Sidwell's visit to the balcony to the explosion at Sonny's.  You're probably right, though I don't know how he managed the timing. 

I guess the female WSB agent really is the worst sniper in history. 

Who do we think Joss is going to accidentally shoot?

 

Yep, Prime has been showing season 56 in an endless loop for months now.

9 hours ago, KittyQ said:

Or on his lap, like Doctor Evil. (I could see that).

Surrounded by Persians.  

7 hours ago, MarciNJ said:

would have been nice and soapy if she accidentally shot and killed Michael....

Amd the bullet could pass through Michael and fatally inspire Carly too.  Or at least permanently sever her vocal chords.

  • Like 1
23 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

Life Model Decoy, clone, alien body snatcher, whatever.

Life Model Decoy! Nick Fury approves. I'm guessing we share an appreciation of Jim Steranko's S.H.I.E.L.D., yes?

In other news, I had been wondering how they would write the SLS out. Naturally, this tragedy (LOL) is going to eventually send grief-stricken Carly into another gear where Mikey's spawn are concerned.

Did anyone else notice that CamMat went into over-drive with the hand-over-the heart thing when talking to Willow today? Never thought much of the actor one way or another, but based on his version of Drew, I can't even stand to watch him in Hallmark movies anymore.

Since its long past time for Cyrus to leave the canvas, I'm hopeful Jack's discovery will lead to Jasus taking him out. More cast culling to come, if we're lucky.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Life Model Decoy! Nick Fury approves. I'm guessing we share an appreciation of Jim Steranko's S.H.I.E.L.D., yes?

In other news, I had been wondering how they would write the SLS out. Naturally, this tragedy (LOL) is going to eventually send grief-stricken Carly into another gear where Mikey's spawn are concerned.

Did anyone else notice that CamMat went into over-drive with the hand-over-the heart thing when talking to Willow today? Never thought much of the actor one way or another, but based on his version of Drew, I can't even stand to watch him in Hallmark movies anymore.

Since its long past time for Cyrus to leave the canvas, I'm hopeful Jack's discovery will lead to Jasus taking him out. More cast culling to come, if we're lucky.

CM hands over his heart or extending his arms out is the worst acting tic I’ve ever seen in daytime. I’m just amazed no director or producer never told him to knock it off. Unfortunately, he’s so tall that most of the time he has to bend his knees to his leading ladies which makes it even worth. It’s too bad he wasn’t at Sonny’s. Unfortunately, with CD leaving and no replacement being mentioned they need Willow to have a leading man and CM is what we’re left with. Granted he’s good looking and in amazing shape but there isn’t really anything much after that. Billy Miller had the whole package. It’s too bad that when they felt the need to recast Drew they didn’t look a little further and cast an actor with a little more depth. 

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I think there's an inherent smarminess to CM's acting. Admittedly, I've only seen him on AMC and GH. Maybe I should check out one of his Hallmark movies to see if it's also there in those movies. Maybe it's the hand over the heart gesture - it comes across as very calculated and the sort of thing a conman would do to win over a victim.

Edited by Mirabelle
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The rumor about Drew not being Drew is that somehow, he’s:

Spoiler

Shiloh. So the salesman, con artist, smarminess, too into Willow thing would fit.

I don’t think the show is that good though.

I’m not a fan of the being burned storyline because it will brush over all the horrors of it, à la Willow’s cancer, 2-week paralysis, organ transplants, etc. I find it disrespectful to sufferers, when so many other options were available.

Very happy to see Lynn Herring back on my screen and having a prominent scene partner. I wonder if the delay in solving the Sidwell plot was due to her personal circumstances. If so, this means Michael’s bombing is an improvisation and the show never does well there.

Cyrus is definitely going down. I wonder if we’re trading him in for Sidwell?

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(edited)
45 minutes ago, Desperado said:

this means Michael’s bombing is an improvisation and the show never does well there.

I totally believe it is because of Chad's announcement that he's leaving the show. That's why we're getting such a nice...edit for the SLS and the 180 that this one night stand/emotional affair has been a twu wuv of star-crossed people in a matter of days. And as I stated upthread, or maybe it was in the media thread, Chad is no thespian or near the levels of talent that JJ is, so I'm rolling my eyes that Frank isn't going to recast and hold this "role" open for his mediocre self. Just like he did for Bechtel before Frank finally SORAS'd Spencer.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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(edited)
13 hours ago, nilyank said:

Also Cyrus in the elevator? Literally if looks could kill, Portia would be dead.

I like that she knew it too. I also liked that she shut down his "The mission approved my working here" with her own "I'll call the mission and fix that." She acted logically for a change.

12 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

And Jason actually made me laugh a couple times today. "What do you want me to do? I already beat him up once. Do you want me to fly to D.C. and beat him up again?"  

I loved that too. When he's allowed, Jason can be pretty funny.

10 hours ago, ByaNose said:

It’s too bad that when they felt the need to recast Drew they didn’t look a little further and cast an actor with a little more depth. 

For me the character has been badly written since they shoehorned him in to placehold for SBu's eventual return. I think BM's version got marginally better writing and plots, but it was a thankless role then and still is now. CM's Drew is getting dreadful writing and dreadful plots, and his acting choices aren't helping either.

2 hours ago, Desperado said:

Very happy to see Lynn Herring back on my screen and having a prominent scene partner.

Same, but I wish Lucy weren't written as such a ditz. She's always been flighty, but she's rarely been abjectly stupid. Her total ignorance of Sidwell strikes me as OOC—if she can do enough research to fill a gift basket appropriately, she should have at least some idea that he's not totally on the up and up. But we have to have at least one innocent to his evilness, I guess.

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That's why we're getting such a nice...edit for the SLS

Michael always gets a nice edit. He's a Carly, so he never loses. Even as a comatose piece of burnt toast he'll win.

1 hour ago, ljr said:

This show has burned Spencer, Ava and now Michael. 
I know it’s just tv but the thought of someone burning alive is terrifying

It took CD leaving, but at least someone is showing reasonable injuries from being burned. Spencer and Ava had scratches on their cheeks.

Edited by dubbel zout
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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Michael always gets a nice edit. He's a Carly, so he never loses.

Oh of course. But prior to his calling Diane about Willow "taking" Wiley to DC without his permission and how they could use it, he was being entirely too understanding and nice about Willow taking their spawn and her filing* of a legal separation. Instead of being the asshole we know he is, but Show still will portray him as the one who is in "the right" as he always is.

*We all know that this was all Nina's doing, and that's why her whining to Curtis about wanting Willow to see Drew for who he really is and do something was so eye roll worthy and laughable, as she's been steering Willow and getting the lawyer, telling her what she NEEDS to do, blah, blah, blah, and Willow is just letting her.

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(edited)
22 hours ago, TVbitch said:

WTF? Did they launch an RPG through Sonny's window? Scale the outside of the building and plant an explosive? Fly by in a helicopter with a flame thrower? 

Did no one teach Michael "stop, drop and roll"! ...Well, that will make it easy for him to have a new face in a couple of years. 

This and a few other scenes made me wonder if we're supposed to get persuaded that Anna going off the rails and also possibly having romantic feelings for Jason isn't so WTF in comparison.

It's been well publicized that CD is leaving the role of Michael, but this seemed to have zero build-up like the out-of-no-where reveal that Holly and Robert are supposedly Sasha's parents. I guess the Show had limited options to keep the Michael character from leaving Port Charles with his kids/abandoning pregnant Sasha and possibly bring Chad back in the future without repeating what they've done with tween Michael, adult Morgan, BM's Drew, NAC's Spencer, Jason, or ER's Lulu.

This Show sure makes some interesting choices. I had forgotten an old episode would be on today, and tuned in to see they had chosen one with adult Spencer (now "dead") arguing with Ava, fired/ex-Nikolas and Esme (dead) in the early stages of crossing the line, and Brando (murdered on the Show and in real life) with his mother (no longer part of the cast) and Sasha, talking about being a lucky man.  UGH!!

Edited by Bringonthedrama
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(edited)
1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

possibly bring Chad back in the future

As stupidly as CD's departure is being handled, I give the show props for hedging its bets by putting Michael in a fire. If CD returns, we saw his Michael pre-burn. If they recast, Michael is injured enough that a new face is soap-logical.

Edited by dubbel zout
adverbs are my friend
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I will maintain that Cameron was a fine choice for reworking Drew. The problem is they failed to fully do it several times. When he first came into the role he was a heroic character and a deliberate offset from Jason, and was still very close to Monica and the Qs as Billy Miller's version had moved towards. It would've taken nothing for Cameron's Drew to go to work for the WSB or wherever as an ex-military man who was also proud of his family ties. Unfortunately the Korte, CVE/O'Connor, etc. vision for Drew extended no further than being a placeholder for Jason in Carly's life, which is where their inexplicable romance was born. (And today Carly acts like Drew is A.J., even though for a couple years and as recently as last January she still treated him like a god made flesh.)

Then when Patrick Mulcahey came aboard, he re-conceived Drew as a kind of Ross Marler type from GL, a rakish, schmoozing handsome politico who was cocky and debonair. Cameron Mathison is very good at this type of character IMO, as he came onto daytime playing the early version of Ryan Lavery on AMC this way. he and Cynthia Watros offset each other well in their love/hate relationship onscreen last spring. Even the Willow thing worked early on AFAIC because it was messy, soapy, scandalous and controversial (something GH has trained many of its daily viewers to be allergic to), the actors all had chemistry and (IMO, anyway) it was probable the long story was going to be Drew ending up back with Nina - the woman who challenged him vs. worshipping him - after being humbled when caught between both women in what would've likely been (and could still be) a major political scandal.

That long story is not what's happened since, though. The writers changed again, they rushed and muddled the Drew/Willow affair and made him come off much creepier, which is a fine line to walk in a story like this anyway, and it's clear the current team considers Drew to be a disposable antagonist. But the truth is I don't think any actor could've sold the schizoid writing for Drew over the last few years. I think Cameron may be limited but he's done well and done the job this past year, and I will think it's a bit of a waste even now if he goes because he makes a good scheming heel onscreen. But he could've been more last year, and it's too bad GH has such limited vision. There's mostly good people, cartoon villains and not much else in between.

As for Sidwell, this nonsense with Lucy is exactly what I said it would be: Another round of Cyrus or Peter August with the names and faces changed. I have no interest in watching her get rooked by another obvious 2-D baddie who will probably get a full family soon to make us sympathize with him because BTS they don't want to let Carlo Rota go. Zzzz.

  • Like 6
  • Applause 2
2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

If CD returns, we saw his Michael pre-burn. If they recast, Michael is injured enough that a new face is soap-logical.

Just like the recasting of Steven Carrington on Dynasty! Al Corley-in an oil rig fire, returns with the face of Jack Coleman! But then in the reunion movie, Al was back as Steven, so...

Never mind!

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(edited)
12 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Cameron Mathison is very good at this type of character IMO, as he came onto daytime playing the early version of Ryan Lavery on AMC this way

I never watched All My Children past the mid to late 80s, I think, so never saw him on that soap. BUT, during my latest rewatch of JAG*, I had forgotten that Cameron appeared as a...Navy submariner! Few scenes, but he was good and nary a scene was chewed. He hasn't aged at all, if you scrape away that scrub he's been sporting.

*Season 8 I think it was.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
  • Like 1
15 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Life Model Decoy! Nick Fury approves. I'm guessing we share an appreciation of Jim Steranko's S.H.I.E.L.D., yes?

In other news, I had been wondering how they would write the SLS out. Naturally, this tragedy (LOL) is going to eventually send grief-stricken Carly into another gear where Mikey's spawn are concerned.

Did anyone else notice that CamMat went into over-drive with the hand-over-the heart thing when talking to Willow today? Never thought much of the actor one way or another, but based on his version of Drew, I can't even stand to watch him in Hallmark movies anymore.

Since it’s long past time for Cyrus to leave the canvas, I'm hopeful Jack's discovery will lead to Jasus taking him out. More cast culling to come, if we're lucky.

I’m a big Steranko fan.  Especially of the classic Fury stories going back to ‘Strange Tales’ in the 60’s.  Perhaps they could make the WSB more like SHIELD…..

37 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just like the recasting of Steven Carrington on Dynasty! Al Corley-in an oil rig fire, returns with the face of Jack Coleman! But then in the reunion movie, Al was back as Steven, so...

Never mind!

It would be so much easier if characters just regenerated like Time Lords on Doctor Who.  I know GH isn’t Science Fiction, but the writing is already so ridiculous I don’t think it would hurt if everyone just accepted that this sometimes happens.

And that would still track better than this……


As another member of the commentariat said previously, this never gets old.

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(edited)
6 hours ago, Desperado said:

Cyrus is definitely going down. I wonder if we’re trading him in for Sidwell?

Oh yeah, we're definitely getting Sidwell for Cyrus. It's a nothing swap since neither are particularly enthralling baddies.

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:
17 hours ago, nilyank said:

Also Cyrus in the elevator? Literally if looks could kill, Portia would be dead.

I like that she knew it too. I also liked that she shut down his "The mission approved my working here" with her own "I'll call the mission and fix that." She acted logically for a change.

I don't care much for Portia, but she should probably have Curtis have a little chat with Cyrus The Virus pretty soon. And not walk to the Garage by herself from now on.

12 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

I’m a big Steranko fan.  Especially of the classic Fury stories going back to ‘Strange Tales’ in the 60’s.  Perhaps they could make the WSB more like SHIELD…..

Steranko is the man, very 60s and 70s cool. The kind of dude who could get away with wearing Brut or High Karate, LOL.

The WSB hasn't lived up to its potential in a very long time, probably since Scorpio and Donnelley were active agents. I've never taken Anna seriously as a "super spy." It's a shame we didn't see more of Frisco's time with the WSB - a great writing crew could have done so much with that.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
  • Like 4
1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It's been well publicized that CD is leaving the role of Michael, but this seemed to have zero build-up like the out-of-no-where reveal that Holly and Robert are supposedly Sasha's parents. I guess the Show had limited options to keep the Michael character from leaving Port Charles with his kids/abandoning pregnant Sasha and possibly bring Chad back in the future without repeating what they've done with tween Michael, adult Morgan, BM's Drew, NAC's Spencer, Jason, or ER's Lulu.

I think the reality is that, whether it's Michael's exit, or Lulu's return, or Lucky's return (remember Lucky?), the problem is that the writers simply don't know how to tell a compelling story.  They omit necessary transitions into and out of storylines, and then either move too quickly and superficially through them, or let them languish forever, equally superficially.  They're just not good at doing what their roles call for.

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19 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

 

And that would still track better than this……


As another member of the commentariat said previously, this never gets old.

Hey! I use this ALL.THE.TIME. It's never NOT funny! "WhatamIsupposedtodoabout a guy who doesn't have a Head?!"

10 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

The WSB hasn't lived up to its potential in a very long time, probably since Scorpio and Donnelley were active agents. I've never taken Anna seriously as a "super spy." It's a shame we didn't see more of Frisco's time with the WSB - a great writing crew could have done so much with that.

For realzies. They were mostly a good spy organization until 2006 and that horrid Monkey Virus story, where suddenly they were dirty as hell and blackmailed and threatened Robert not to let Robin and Anna know he was still alive if he didn't want them to be killed. And since then, has turned into a corrupt organization that is no good.

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17 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

The WSB hasn't lived up to its potential in a very long time, probably since Scorpio and Donnelley were active agents. I've never taken Anna seriously as a "super spy." It's a shame we didn't see more of Frisco's time with the WSB - a great writing crew could have done so much with that.

Amen.  Still could.  Doesn't have to be Jack Wagner, but a Frisco return would be awesome.  Just not in the hands of these writers.

  • Love 4
(edited)
7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And since then, has turned into a corrupt organization that is no good.

I think it's fine there's some corruption within the WSB, but as usual, it's been handled so ineptly that today's version is impossible to figure out. 

If Terrible French Accent Agent wasn't supposed to be a sniper, why didn't Jack fire her on the spot? The character is less than tertiary, so it's not as if anyone would care if she were gone/replaced. 

And I fear that @jsbt is right and we're stuck with Sidwell long after this dumb diamond story is over. I'm sure some heretofore-unknown relative is already in Port Charles. UGH.

Edited by dubbel zout
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(edited)
49 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think it's fine there's some corruption within the WSB, but as usual, it's been handled so ineptly that today's version is impossible to figure out. 

If Terrible French Accent Agent wasn't supposed to be a sniper, why didn't Jack fire her on the spot? The character is less than tertiary, so it's not as if anyone would care if she were gone/replaced. 

And I fear that @jsbt is right and we're stuck with Sidwell long after this dumb diamond story is over. I'm sure some heretofore-unknown relative is already in Port Charles. UGH.

I'm terrified that Natalia is his wife, current or ex.  I just can't...

Edited by CeChase
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(edited)
7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

For me the character has been badly written since they shoehorned him in to placehold for SBu's eventual return. I think BM's version got marginally better writing and plots, but it was a thankless role then and still is now. CM's Drew is getting dreadful writing and dreadful plots, and his acting choices aren't helping either.

I'm not even sure about the marginally better writing and plots. I just looked it up for my curiosity, and Miller was on GH for almost two years following Burton's return as "Patient Six" in the clinic where Ava went for The Treatment®. September 2017 through August 2019. Drew's stories were so forgettable and inconsequential that it seems like six to eight months, tops. Once the "I'm Jason"/"No, I'm Jason!" part was over, which was still late 2017, they wrote Drew like surplus. He was mostly in Oscar/Kim's orbit, plus had brotherly stuff with Franco, and he was involved in the Shiloh story like almost everyone. And there was a lot of flash-drive nonsense. 

I think that's the reason I cannot get upset over, as some have put it, the destruction of Drew with Mathison in the role. He didn't seem like a fully drawn character to me in 2017-19. But I would agree with those fans that BM's Drew (with terrible, contract-burner material) was not annoying, and CM's Drew (with terrible material on a higher tier of story prominence) often is.

Edited by Asp Burger
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Has it never occurred to Laura or DeLulu that while yes, it's dangerous for Charlotte to be on the run with Valentin because of the people after him, she's probably still safer with him since he knows who he's running from and how to evade them? She'd be one hell of an easy target for someone to nab in order to draw Valentin out if she's living a normal life in PC. They would have to have her under 24-hour guard which would also not be a fun life for a teenager and our friends in Port Charles have a bad habit of not doing the best job of vetting staff.  

Brad is a mostly good man with terrible judgement and I'm glad he took that as a compliment! 

Can we give Willow and Drew the portmanteau name of Eww? 

Are they getting rid of the Wyndemere set so they brought in Sidwell to chew the whole damn thing up? 

 

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26 minutes ago, sashabear21 said:

Brad is a mostly good man with terrible judgement and I'm glad he took that as a compliment! 

Brad has always owned (albeit after the fact) that he has atrocious judgement, but he means it and he's paid the price. That's one of the things I really like about him. He'll make excuses in the moment, but when he knows he's done wrong, he admits it.

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22 hours ago, Suicidy said:

Perhaps they could fight over a waterfall, and fall over into the fall with their hands wrapped around each other’s throats.  Later reviving on the Pennsylvania dos of the river in Nixon falls.

Haha! I think that the GH writers could do worse than copying Conan Doyle's attempt to kill off Sherlock Holmes. 

  • Like 1
(edited)
11 minutes ago, ByaNose said:
7 hours ago, Auntie Velvet said:

If burn victim Michael does survive, it's too bad that he's too old for the Shriners Hospital for Children. Did you know that the Shriners Hospital for Children is a wonderful place? In fact, the Shriners Hospital for Children.....

You know you’re going to heck for that one. LOL!!!!!

I can hear Sonny now, "I'm making a big donation on behalf of Mikey's friends at Shriners."

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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