S04.E09: So Long, Marianne

[himela]

2 hours ago, Mars477 said:

Kate doesn’t even know for sure that they’re talking about her in that group chat.  She could be getting herself worked up over Toby complaining about a random woman in any number of contexts, from work to the gym. And “the other woman” could also be a dude given that “LadyKryptonite” could mean both “a lady calling herself kryptonite” or “kryptonite for ladies.”

He is clearly talking about Kate lying to him about the avocado.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Rebecca asked Randall to keep their fight a secret, not her condition IIRC.

It was the sixties, everyone in the artistic community was sleeping around.

Cohen lived with Marianne Ihlen on the island of Hydra. I think he was the one who ended it, going back to Canada. She later joined him at his home in Montreal. One day she answered the door and there was Suzanne Elrod with baby Adam, saying that it was time for Marianne to move out because she was moving in now. I love Cohen's music but I'm glad I was never in a relationship with him

Cohen did send Marianne an email in 2016 as she was dying of leukemia

He himself died 3 months later of a fall and complications of leukemia.

I like this version I read a little more.

“It said, ‘Well Marianne it’s come to this time when we are really so old and our bodies are falling apart and I think I will follow you very soon. Know that I am so close behind you that if you stretch out your hand, I think you can reach mine,” Mollestad told the CBC of Cohen’s letter.

“‘And you know that I’ve always loved you for your beauty and your wisdom, but I don’t need to say anything more about that because you know all about that. But now, I just want to wish you a very good journey. Goodbye old friend. Endless love, see you down the road.'”

Some auction houses have many of his written letters to her, some hard to read but touching. Artists can cut deep in many ways, I agree, love his music but personally to much of a roller coaster ride.I think some combining of letters might have happened. It was interesting to read some of them online (original) he was a romantic artist.

Something about the hand reaching out touched me and I can see TIU thinking of Jack and Rebecca.

Edited November 24, 2019 by debraran

[Kirkydee]

About whether Randall and Beth's house and the oven(s)

It's hard to believe they would have two ovens.  They downsized from NJ.  The house looked nice, but relatively no frills.  If its still Alpine, perhaps that's a home that's newer with the proper zip code for the two oven crowd.  But affordable housing Philly equipped with two ovens? Not buying it.

[Veronica]

15 hours ago, nexxie said:

My guess for why they stop speaking to Randall: He keeps their mother’s condition a secret - as she asked.

My guess is that might be part of the problem especially if she continues to care for baby Jack, especially alone. I can’t see Miguel knowing and letting her take care of a baby alone. 

I’m guessing Randall tries to take over making the decisions about her care/treatment. Maybe Randall goes so far as suing to get a conservatorship or power of attorney. Kate and Kevin side with Miguel instead of Randall. 

[nexxie]

The fight, which Rebecca asked Randall to keep quiet, was about her condition - which is likely why she wanted him to keep it between them. All the scenes about R&R Time, and Randall looking out for his mom have led up to his seeing her decline before his siblings see it. If he keeps it a secret, partly because she asks him to and partly because of his need to handle things, Kevin and Kate could get pretty upset.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

The fight, which Rebecca asked Randall to keep quiet, was about her condition - which is likely why she wanted him to keep it between them. All the scenes about R&R Time, and Randall looking out for his mom have led up to his seeing her decline before his siblings see it. If he keeps it a secret, partly because she asks him to and partly because of his need to handle things, Kevin and Kate could get pretty upset.

Yet if the reason they are not speaking is because of Randall keeping a secret, then they must have become aware of the problem prior to the birthday party in the cabin.  My question then is why she was off on her own getting a pie (or cake) when they were aware of what's been going on with her.  They've got us quite wrapped up in what caused the rift, and who Kevin's pregnant fiance is.  Looks like they have a winner in the way they handle their fall and spring finale episodes. 

[MJS]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:09 AM, izabella said:

I think Toby was mad that Kate lied to him about it, not that the baby had his first solid food because the neighbor gave it to him.  If Kate had told him when he got home from work that Jack had eaten some avocado that day, they could have celebrated together.  Toby might have been a little disappointed, but he wouldn't have gotten mad about it.  The problem is Kate didn't tell him, and then didn't tell him when Toby fed him some avocado, so turned it into a lie that he believed.  The lying is the problem.

Well, let’s not forget that before Toby left he told Kate “only boob juice” (ugh) until he got home so he wouldn’t miss the big first bite. He communicated to her what a big deal it was for him (perhaps he was overplaying it, but she wouldn't know that) and she was reacting to that.  

Then unexpectedly she let the moment get ruined (her internal monologue no doubt) and felt guilty. Then Toby got baby Jack to eat, seemed so happy, and didn’t want to ruin it again. 

But then he’s so excited about “Jack's first bite” video getting likes, so she felt compelled to be honest. Maybe so he won’t feel stupid later, having made a big fuss, finding out the truth. It’s a small thing all around, and it’s not a big deal if she had kept quiet or decided to tell. Either way it’s not a big deal, and just a new parent thing to get through. 

She also fully recognizes her frustration with his weight loss is rooted in complex feelings and history, much of which she owns and is her self-described “evil” feeling. She was very emotionally healthy about her reflection on it. And she chose not to confront him about the text in the middle of the holiday and on the heels of her “avocado-gate” misstep. Also thoughtful and self aware. 
 

I don’t think she deserves a lot of the criticism she gets. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by MJS

[nexxie]

7 hours ago, himela said:

He is clearly talking about Kate lying to him about the avocado.

This could be about almost anything - his boss passing him over for a promotion, a trainer commenting on his progress, or whatever. Doesn’t have to be about Kate at all - could be her jumping to that conclusion that leads to a big fight.

[himela]

6 minutes ago, nexxie said:

This could be about almost anything - his boss passing him over for a promotion, a trainer commenting on his progress, or whatever. Doesn’t have to be about Kate at all - could be her jumping to that conclusion that leads to a big fight.

Even if it's not about Kate, this seems like a serious matter that his wife doesn't know about and he shouldn't be talking to some crossfit strangers about it before he talks about it with his wife. Plus the show would not show us this moment if it was something else other than an emotional affair. There was a reason they showed it to us.

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, nexxie said:

This could be about almost anything - his boss passing him over for a promotion, a trainer commenting on his progress, or whatever. Doesn’t have to be about Kate at all - could be her jumping to that conclusion that leads to a big fight.

We didn’t even see her jumping to any conclusion. She saw it, looked concerned (maybe she’s worried about him) and going to take the photo. 

[Kirkydee]

1 hour ago, himela said:

Even if it's not about Kate, this seems like a serious matter that his wife doesn't know about and he shouldn't be talking to some crossfit strangers about it before he talks about it with his wife. Plus the show would not show us this moment if it was something else other than an emotional affair. There was a reason they showed it to us.

Not necessarily.  As Nexxie said, it could be about a trainer commenting about something at crossfit.  Toby isnt gonna talk about crossfit to Kate.  Plus this show is the master of fakeout.  Wont be the 1st time they do the old misdirection

But if I had to vote for a theory, I'd vote for the avocado venting theory. Especially texting his group on Thanksgiving during family day and cross country traveling. 

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Well, let’s not forget that before Toby left he told Kate “only boob juice” (ugh) until he got home so he wouldn’t miss the big first bite. He communicated to her what a big deal it was for him (perhaps he was overplaying it, but she wouldn't know that) and she was reacting to that. 

This whole thing bothered me because it seemed like Toby was telling her to hold Jack back so that he could be around for the big moments. If you want to be there for Jack's big moments Toby, try spending more time with him.  He wants it both ways, to spend time with his crossfit friends and to be with Jack so that he can instagram the moments.

Their communication is so bad.

[nexxie]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

We didn’t even see her jumping to any conclusion. She saw it, looked concerned (maybe she’s worried about him) and going to take the photo. 

The jumping to conclusions would be next season - something that could happen.

[nexxie]

Two things about the new house:

It was mentioned more than once that they were supposed to be downsizing, suggesting that the house was still impressive.

And then Randall went to their old house, where we could see how large and luxurious it was and that they really did downsize.

[Ohmo]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:46 PM, ClareWalks said:

It could be that Kevin, being a charming and socially savvy guy, had heard the ginger tea suggestion before but chose to be polite in response. What should he have said, "ginger tea, no duh, that's the FIRST thing she tried"?

I'd buy that, especially since we saw that scene in the trailer dealership where Kevin "turned it on" in response to a fan noticing him.  He knows he's a public figure, so his reflex would be to be polite.

Re: Kevin's fiancee At Thanksgiving, Kevin specifically mentions a small town to Randall, and I just can't shake the feeling that the woman with the red hair is not just a random character.  She talked about being from a small town, which is what Kevin told Randall he liked.

I also feel that Cassidy is the obvious choice, which means it isn't her...unless...this show has always dealt with the idea of paternity and fatherhood.  Jack and his drunk father, Jack vs. Rebecca's father, Jack as an adoptive and bio.logical father, William and Randall, Malik and Janelle.

Cassidy was still in love with her husband.  What if we see a flash forward at some point in the future a la Randall looking for William, but this time it's a child looking for Kevin?  IOW...Cassidy DOES have Kevin's child but raises it as her husband's?  If Cassidy and hubby have reconciliation sex, she might not know whose child it is (and might not rush to find out).  I could see the possibility of Kevin having two children---one with Cassiidy and one with his fiancee.

[nexxie]

I love the Nicky character - a soul too sensitive for this cruel world.

Beautiful work by Griffin Dunne and Michael Angarano!

Edited December 1, 2019 by nexxie

[Kirkydee]

I have a HARD time believing red head will be the fiance.  She wasnt Miss right- she's Miss right now.  Wrote her number on the drink and ready to bang him back at the trailer in the blink of an eye.  I cant see Kevin getting romantic or some 'maybe this is destiny' on a presumably easy bored horny chick with limited options from small town PA.  Throwing her a bone? Sure! Putting her on wifey status? Nope!

[MBayGal]

“Toby's motive for losing the weight was the stroke and his newborn baby ....”. This has been mentioned many times.  But what about Kaye’s weight making it less likely that she will live a long and healthy life for/with her child?  If not Toby, surely someone in the family should be encouraging her to take better care of herself, and losing weight would be a big part of it.  Of course if Ms Metz just keeps gaining instead of losing, that story line would go nowhere, but it could still be mentioned. 

[Lady Iris]

What a beautiful bittersweet moment for Nicky realizing Jack did remember and share him with the kids in his own way. Griffin Dunne killed me in that scene. It's the moments like this that make me adore this show. I'm glad he broke through his barriers and is integrating into the family. He's been alone far too long.

[Lastwaltz]

On 11/20/2019 at 1:28 AM, colorbars said:

I think it was just supposed to show that Toby was complaining about her to his friends, which both showed he wasn't actually over it like he claimed, but also because earlier, Beth had told her that if the only people they're talking about their problems to are people outside the marriage, then that's not good.

Bingo! I think you nailed that moment. It's not that Toby lost weight "without her," it's that he has a very important part of his life that he only just told her about. Then to see his texts about their exchange with people she doesn't know? Oy. Then Beth's words were clanging in her head. 

[Biggie B]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:01 AM, Enigma X said:

A few scenes choked me up, but the one with Nicky in the car with Randall and the flashback to Jack had me balling before I knew what was happening.

Oh my goodness -  while it was an emotional moment, I wouldn't have pegged that scene as being aphrodisiac enough to induce sex! 🙂  (I think you meant 'bawling.').

I just watched this episode, almost a week after the fact. I thought it was pretty good. It jerked us around a bit and had some truly sharp moments. I tend to watch this show at arm's length, i.e., I don't take it all that seriously and don't analyze it very deeply. I just sort of let it wash over me and if I come away with a few meaningful moments - happy or sad or worrisome or whatever - I consider it a successful episode. 

I like Uncle Nicky a lot and hope for the best for him. I like the bond that he and Kevin have forged. I do feel bad that Jack lied to everyone about his 'death'. But Nicky seems pragmatic. He can't go back and be a part of everything he missed, but he can be involved going forward. 

I liked Beth and Kate's scene together. I don't care that Kate didn't console Beth, I just liked the fact that the two of them had some one-on-one dialogue, which happens so rarely.

Tess was great throughout.

I, too, hope that Kevin's fiancee is a completely new person. Not that this show needs yet another character, but since this is going to happen no matter what, at least give us viewers someone different.

I rolled my eyes upon learning that Randall is (temporarily?) estranged from some or all of his family. Oy vey. I don't even care what the reason is, but I'm not looking forward to seeing how it happens. Probably going to be a case of massive non- or miscommunication on everyone's part, coupled with big egos. Probably going to be drawn out for the rest of the season. 

Not terribly interested in Kate and Toby's marriage and the shaky ground it's on. Eh, whatever happens is fine: either they'll split up and have to figure out how to co-parent little Jack, or they'll work through their issues and stay together. Either way, I'm not invested enough to prefer one outcome to the other.

[izabella]

The way Kevin said "We're not talking to Randall.  Don't you remember?" sounded like he had reminder her of that more than once.  It made me wonder if she was the one who wasn't speaking with Randall, not Kevin.  She was angry about what he was saying about taking care of her in present time.  Maybe that issue got worse in the next few months, and Randall is mad at Rebecca so he's staying away.  Maybe sometimes Rebecca forgets that and wants to talk with Randall.

[tennisgurl]

I mean, knowing Randall, maybe he spent all of the girls college money on flight school because William was on a plane once, and the rest of the family was just like "yeah even by ridiculous Pearson standards, that is way too much." and now they dont talk. 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

The way Kevin said "We're not talking to Randall.  Don't you remember?" sounded like he had reminder her of that more than once.  It made me wonder if she was the one who wasn't speaking with Randall, not Kevin.  She was angry about what he was saying about taking care of her in present time.  Maybe that issue got worse in the next few months, and Randall is mad at Rebecca so he's staying away.  Maybe sometimes Rebecca forgets that and wants to talk with Randall.

This is the only article I've read on the finale, and it seems we were supposed to think just Kevin and Randall. Really can you picture Rebecca never talking to Randall ? : )

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/is-us-boss-baby-surprise-alzheimers-new-future-storylines-1256353

I'm thinking Kate's friendship with her neighbor becomes her crutch and Toby's Crossfit, and poor Jack in the middle but with all the talking Randall does, can some dribble to his siblings with some communication? I guess the show would be flatter but a few conversations with Toby about feeling unattractive and overwhelmed and maybe he'd respond.  I guess poor Miguel again doesn't have a say with his own wife? Do they write him off soon? I really hate how he gets 3 lines and they are to make fun of him or get sympathy. I still hold out TIU will show more of them soon as a happy couple and stop making him a mannequin with an odd tan.

What they Had, a movie with Hilary Swank and Blyth Danner was a good free movie on Amazon. I didn't know what to expect but it was understated and well acted the emotions with siblings and the "who is doing more" scenarios.

https://www.aarp.org/entertainment/movies-for-grownups/info-2018/what-they-had-review.html

[Enigma X]

9 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Oh my goodness -  while it was an emotional moment, I wouldn't have pegged that scene as being aphrodisiac enough to induce sex! 🙂  (I think you meant 'bawling.').

You don't know my life! Joking. 😀

I hate when I do that. Mea culpa!

[himela]

19 hours ago, MBayGal said:

“Toby's motive for losing the weight was the stroke and his newborn baby ....”. This has been mentioned many times.  But what about Kaye’s weight making it less likely that she will live a long and healthy life for/with her child?  If not Toby, surely someone in the family should be encouraging her to take better care of herself, and losing weight would be a big part of it.  Of course if Ms Metz just keeps gaining instead of losing, that story line would go nowhere, but it could still be mentioned. 

Do you think that all Kate needs is ... encouragement? Do you think she spends any time of her life NOT thinking about her weight and whether she will be around in a few years for her son? I read yeasterday that Kate's character is based on the Creator's sister. He said to his sister "I want to make a story about Kate that is not about the weight" and she replied "it's always about the weight". An overweight person is noticed because of it so this is what people focus on. This person may be smart, educated, successful, witty etc but the weight will always be the main thing that is noticed. Especially regarding Kate, I think what she needs is to visit a therapist and talk about everything that made her gain that much weight and also talk about her feelings about having a blind baby. Sadly in this family nobody seems to realize the fact that a therapist is needed. It seems they only want to solve their problems with long monologues. I just wish Kate would go to a therapist she'd trust. I bet they would do wonders. Her family pressing her to lose the weight is like saying to a depressed person "stop seeing things so negatively!". Kate has an addiction and she has to treat it like one.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, himela said:

Do you think that all Kate needs is ... encouragement? Do you think she spends any time of her life NOT thinking about her weight and whether she will be around in a few years for her son? I read yeasterday that Kate's character is based on the Creator's sister. He said to his sister "I want to make a story about Kate that is not about the weight" and she replied "it's always about the weight". An overweight person is noticed because of it so this is what people focus on. This person may be smart, educated, successful, witty etc but the weight will always be the main thing that is noticed. Especially regarding Kate, I think what she needs is to visit a therapist and talk about everything that made her gain that much weight and also talk about her feelings about having a blind baby. Sadly in this family nobody seems to realize the fact that a therapist is needed. It seems they only want to solve their problems with long monologues. I just wish Kate would go to a therapist she'd trust. I bet they would do wonders. Her family pressing her to lose the weight is like saying to a depressed person "stop seeing things so negatively!". Kate has an addiction and she has to treat it like one.

Yes, exactly, an addiction, that is untreated.  She needs therapeutic help, as do both of her brothers.  I would like to see this, more than in passing as we did after Kevin's DUI and Randall's breakdown.  With Kate this is not a DIY project, she needs an experienced therapist that she is comfortable with.  It's an all-hands-on-deck situation -- she definitely needs medical intervention as well.  I think the writers are hamstrung by Chrissy's lack of progress. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:23 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Just when I'm feeling positive about Beth, she goes and says the silliest things.  So, she REALLY wasn't happy that Deja's mother was doing well.  Petty jealousy of the the drug addicted woman with a poor background, who is living without her only daughter......really?  Perhaps some rich people don't have much else to do, but, live their dreams, nit pick others and feel good about themselves all the time.  Beth was good with Deja towards the end. 

I read it differently. Sometimes we have emotions, including jealousy, that our logical brain knows are wrong. We feel guilty about them. But you can't control your emotional reactions--you can control how you react to them and work to overcome them. I felt that was what Beth was doing--recognizing how she felt, knowing it was wrong and working to get through it--partially by admitting it to Kate and then by being there for Deja.

[himela]

How awful would it be if Shauna was the mysterious fiance of Kevin and she had taken Deja away from Randall and Beth and this is the reason they don't talk with each other? :S

[Blakeston]

16 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, exactly, an addiction, that is untreated.  She needs therapeutic help, as do both of her brothers.  I would like to see this, more than in passing as we did after Kevin's DUI and Randall's breakdown.  With Kate this is not a DIY project, she needs an experienced therapist that she is comfortable with.  It's an all-hands-on-deck situation -- she definitely needs medical intervention as well. 

This. In addition to therapy, Toby should really be urging her not to keep fattening food around the house.

The only evidence we ever see of her overeating is popping a small piece of candy in her mouth, but for her to be gaining weight at her size, her overeating problem would have to be a whole lot worse than that. 

Toby is negligent if he isn't trying to point her in a healthier direction. I get that she's in an extremely stressful situation with a special-needs baby, but her odds of living to see that baby grow up aren't that great if she doesn't take action.

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The only evidence we ever see of her overeating is popping a small piece of candy in her mouth, but for her to be gaining weight at her size, her overeating problem would have to be a whole lot worse than that. 

They don't show it, but she has admitted to it -- was it in the first episode of this season maybe where someone commented on Toby's weight loss and she remarked that she is not losing but gaining because of stress eating.  So that's one step in the process, but the baby is more than 6 months old now and she needs to take more steps. 

[chocolatine]

58 minutes ago, himela said:

How awful would it be if Shauna was the mysterious fiance of Kevin and she had taken Deja away from Randall and Beth and this is the reason they don't talk with each other? :S

Shauna has voluntarily relinquished her parental rights and Randall and Beth have adopted Deja, so Shauna can't really "take her away" without a long and difficult legal battle. Plus, Kevin's son in the flash-forward is white, making it very unlikely that Shauna is his mother. (Unless the show is playing yet another trick on us and Kevin ends up with kids from multiple women.)

[himela]

20 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Shauna has voluntarily relinquished her parental rights and Randall and Beth have adopted Deja, so Shauna can't really "take her away" without a long and difficult legal battle. Plus, Kevin's son in the flash-forward is white, making it very unlikely that Shauna is his mother. (Unless the show is playing yet another trick on us and Kevin ends up with kids from multiple women.)

What if Deja herself chooses to live with her mother though?

[izabella]

4 minutes ago, himela said:

What if Deja herself chooses to live with her mother though?

She doesn't really have that option.  Her legal parents and guardians are Randall and Beth.  If she wants to be with her mom, she can visit with her until she is 18 and then she can do whatever she wants.  Only a few more years.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 1:33 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I totally expected that's where she'd be as the camera pulled back. The cabin was a surprise. 

I thought she got confused and gave them the address for Randall's old house and they were going to knock on the door and the new owners would open it . .

[kili]

Quote

Toby should really be urging her not to keep fattening food around the house. [SNIP] Toby is negligent if he isn't trying to point her in a healthier direction.

We've seen Toby do both these things. During one of their successful eating phases, Toby found out she was sneaking junk food (the trash bag ripped).

Currently, Toby is obsessed with Cross-fit and trying to convince everybody to join and eat nut-based cheeses and other healthy options (he brought Tempeh to Thanksgiving in a carry cooler).

If Kate ever decides to lose weight, Toby will be her biggest cheer leader and will go to the store at midnight to buy whatever healthy food she needs. But, it's up to Kate to decide to lose the weight.  People have tried all her life to get her to eat healthier and lose weight. She's gone to group programs to help. She's been to camps and doctors. She almost had surgery. Nobody in her life is encouraging her to gain weight and eat unhealthy.

Kate needs to resolve her issues and decide she wants to lose the weight. Until that happens, Toby can't do anything that won't come across as useless nagging. Kate knows she needs to eat healthy and lose weight, nobody needs to tell her that. She knows the direction, she just has to start walking the path. Which is hard for her for a lot of complicated reasons she needs therapy to address.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, himela said:

What if Deja herself chooses to live with her mother though?

Then it would be Deja's choice and not something for which Randall can be mad at Kevin.

[smartymarty]

On 11/25/2019 at 1:57 PM, MBayGal said:

If not Toby, surely someone in the family should be encouraging her to take better care of herself, and losing weight would be a big part of it.

People who are overweight know that it's not good for their health, just like people who smoke know that it could lead to cancer. They don't need anyone reminding them.

[Crs97]

24 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

On 11/25/2019 at 1:57 PM, MBayGal said:

If not Toby, surely someone in the family should be encouraging her to take better care of herself, and losing weight would be a big part of it.

People who are overweight know that it's not good for their health, just like people who smoke know that it could lead to cancer. They don't need anyone reminding them.

Exactly.  We saw Rebecca try repeatedly to talk to Kate about healthy eating; it seemed to be part of their relationship problem.

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, kili said:

We've seen Toby do both these things. During one of their successful eating phases, Toby found out she was sneaking junk food (the trash bag ripped).

Currently, Toby is obsessed with Cross-fit and trying to convince everybody to join and eat nut-based cheeses and other healthy options (he brought Tempeh to Thanksgiving in a carry cooler).

If Kate ever decides to lose weight, Toby will be her biggest cheer leader and will go to the store at midnight to buy whatever healthy food she needs. But, it's up to Kate to decide to lose the weight.  People have tried all her life to get her to eat healthier and lose weight. She's gone to group programs to help. She's been to camps and doctors. She almost had surgery. Nobody in her life is encouraging her to gain weight and eat unhealthy.

Kate needs to resolve her issues and decide she wants to lose the weight. Until that happens, Toby can't do anything that won't come across as useless nagging. Kate knows she needs to eat healthy and lose weight, nobody needs to tell her that. She knows the direction, she just has to start walking the path. Which is hard for her for a lot of complicated reasons she needs therapy to address.

Aren't there ways to be supportive without nagging?

If she's buying massive amounts of unhealthy food at the grocery store, shouldn't he offer to at least go with her to the store, and offer her support when she's choosing what she buys? If she turns down that kind of support, then shouldn't he urge her to go to couples counseling?

She strongly considered beriatric surgery, then decided she'd rather lose the weight the old-fashioned way. That obviously hasn't worked. Shouldn't he bring up the subject of surgery again? 

All indications are that he's just staying out of her way and ignoring the issue of her weight because he knows she's stressed. But that stress isn't going away anytime soon, and hoping that her potentially deadly addiction will resolve itself on its own isn't the answer.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I thought she got confused and gave them the address for Randall's old house and they were going to knock on the door and the new owners would open it . .

I thought that too but the house looks different now when they rebuilt it. Kate still went there but the memory wouldn't be the same. I like that they did the cabin. If the house was the same and she did that, I would have cried.

I agree, re Kate's weight is stymieing the writers. They said in interviews, they didn't want the story with her to just be about weight, it's boring and she can do more, but as he person they based this on said, "Its always about the weight". Sad but true in our country especially. It doesn't matter how large American's get, whomever is larger is the one they talk about. 

Except for Kate's OB, and when she briefly discussed more drastic measure season one with a doctor, you don't see her getting a checkup, seeing a nutritionist really trying to be as healthy as she can for her son. With her dad's heart issues, etc. I'd like to see her get a checkup and see a good therapist. The communication between her and Toby can be improved and someone outside the family would be helpful. 

[MJS]

27 minutes ago, debraran said:

I thought that too but the house looks different now when they rebuilt it. Kate still went there but the memory wouldn't be the same. I like that they did the cabin. If the house was the same and she did that, I would have cried.

I think they meant Randall's house in NJ, not the house they grew up in. 
 

I thought that’s where they were going with it too, given that they made the point of showing Randall's house in the today timeline. The cabin completely surprised me!

[himela]

Now that Toby has lost so much weight, if he presses Kate to stop overeating, it won't look good. I think this is what is going to happen, he will come home earlier one day and see her eating mac donalds or something, he will request that she stops with the junk food, she will explode revealing the message she saw from a strange woman in his mobile phone and this will be the beginning of the end. Toby has said that his ex wife who was slim was not his type, but I don't believe that. I think that he convinced himself he can't have a slim woman anymore because he was overweight and now that he is fit he will see things a different way. If his friends at the crossfit tell him that his wife is bringing him down and she is ruining his being healthy, I think he is insecure enough to fall for it. All in all, I think this couple was doomed even before the baby and they should never have a kid.

[Lastwaltz]

19 hours ago, smartymarty said:

People who are overweight know that it's not good for their health, just like people who smoke know that it could lead to cancer. They don't need anyone reminding them.

As a former smoker (4 years!) and someone who is overweight (gained 30 lbs after quitting on top of extra lbs already) -- this is the absolute truth. I've tended toward overweight my entire life. I weighed over 10 lbs at birth. At various points I've lost significant weight but have regained it. Believe me, those of us who are overweight think about it all the damn time. I think your metabolism changes -- you'd be surprised, I bet, how little some overweight people actually eat. It's about food choices and kickstarting a sickly metabolism in my view. But it's also an individual choice, and to bring it back to the show -- there's nothing Toby, Kevin, Randall, Rebecca, or anyone else could say to make it happen for Kate. 

[saber5055]

Could it be that Kate is overweight and staying that way because she hates herself as much (or more!) than some viewers dislike her. Blaming her food addiction on having a baby, then topping that with the baby is special needs is a weak excuse.

When Toby was fat, he was part of her "team." Now he obviously hates her too, in Kate's mind I mean, so she'll just eat more to make up for her husband bailing on her and getting fit.

Bottom line, she's hate-eating herself to death. And killing her marriage along the way, which is part of the self-hate thing. If they divorce, it will be "Toby's fault." Of course it will be, nothing is ever Kate's fault.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 6:37 PM, MJS said:

I think they meant Randall's house in NJ, not the house they grew up in. 
 

I thought that’s where they were going with it too, given that they made the point of showing Randall's house in the today timeline. The cabin completely surprised me!

exactly. it would not have been odd for her to forget his new place but remember the address for his NJ house. Then when the new owners open the door, she'd be really confused. So I was surprised by the cabin.

[cheewhiz]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:01 AM, Blackie said:

This isn't even showing at the regular movie chains, at least not here in Canada. So unless they have a specialty theatre in walking distance.  For me, I would have to go to downtown Toronto, and first book tickets online, which we tried to do and the system wasn't working. 

I'm sure this is on Netflix right now.

[PRgal]

6 minutes ago, cheewhiz said:

I'm sure this is on Netflix right now.

It's most definitely on Netflix.  My husband saw it over the weekend.  I think it played in, like ONE THEATRE in Toronto for a day or something like that (not sure).  

[Heloisa]

Call me crazy, but i think that shauna got pregnat of kevin (I am brazillian, my english not good, sorry)  

This explain why Randall and Kevin dont speak anymore. 

[Zonk]

All these signs that Rebecca is having dementia, that are meant to leave us extremely worried for her...

Me with bad ADHD: "Seems like a normal Tuesday!"