S03.E03: Aberfan

[Razzberry]

17 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

Unpopular opinion, but I think the single tear at the end was a bit much. It would have been more powerful to end on that shot of her from behind, face unseen, leaving us to wonder whether or not she was moved by the hymn. 

I actually agree.  Admittedly my excitement with the scene was primarily due to the rarity of it from an acting standpoint. To see the eyes go from perfectly dry to spilling tears in one uncut take is like finding a priceless jewel in the dirt.  

[JennyMominFL]

On 11/17/2019 at 4:56 PM, Brn2bwild said:

It's a wonder if hiding under your desk ever works... it wouldn't work during a nuclear disaster, and doesn't seem like it worked here.  At most, it might offer some protection in the event of an earthquake.

It created air pockets which saved a few kids. One entire classroom was wiped out. I did  read an interview by one of the students where she describes the teacher reacting exactly that way.

 Ive been to Wales and while some of it is lovely, some of the mining towns are so bleak

[Paloma]

I commented on the episode 2 thread that I was having trouble getting into this season because of casting, plot, and focus, but this episode got me hooked again. The combination of the real tragedy (which I did not know much about) and Elizabeth's not knowing how to respond, as well as the political complications, made this a compelling episode. On a personal level, I could relate to Elizabeth's inability to cry and her seeing that as something wrong with her or a deficiency. Although I often tear up at emotional TV shows, movies, and even commercials (though I try to hide it if someone is watching with me), I have almost never cried for real-life events such as birth of my child and death of my father. It's not that I don't have strong emotions about these things, but for some reason I can't cry. Guess I would be a good monarch, at least if being stoic is a key requirement.

[Nire]

This episode was so moving.  This article says they used townspeople as extras https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/17/television-drama-the-crown-portrays-aberfan-disaster.  I'm sure that helped them get such strong performances even from extras.  

[Cheezwiz]

I had never heard of this disaster before (and part of my family is from Welsh mining stock). This episode was so moving and well done - everything from the atmosphere of dread at the beginning, to the landslide pouring down the mountainside, to the endless rows of tiny coffins, was so gut-wrenching.

Simultaneously it explored the Queen's tendency towards stoicism and possible emotional repression. Of course we have no idea how the Queen really feels, but it was interesting that the show HRH viewed her lack of emotion as a massive flaw, when this may in fact have been necessary for her to carry out her duties for so many decades. Olivia Colman as well as all the other actors knocked it out of the park this episode. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Nire said:

This episode was so moving.  This article says they used townspeople as extras https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/17/television-drama-the-crown-portrays-aberfan-disaster.  I'm sure that helped them get such strong performances even from extras.  

Wow! I had no idea! That's amazing.

[swanpride]

So, some children did survive by hiding under their desks? They is in an odd way good to know….

[benteen]

This episode was very well-done.  I had never heard about the Aberfan disaster until I read an article about this season of The Crown.  Very, very sad and thiss episode captured the horror of it.

The actors continue to knock it out of the ballpark this season.  Jason Watkins continues to be a great new addition to the cast and everyone else also delivered.  

Edited November 19, 2019 by benteen

[albinerhawk]

As with previous posters, I also had no idea what Aberfan was about. I kept having to resist picking up my phone and googling it before the episode was over. I found the scenes with Aberfan really moving, and was surprised that Tony actually did go to help. However, I almost feel that presenting this as an episode of the Crown does the tragedy a disservice. I felt like the focus got distracted and taken away from the victims to highlight the queen's horrible tragedy of keeping a stiff upper lip. 

[Umbelina]

I'm having problems with this season, which I just talked about in the cast thread, but specific to this particular and wonderful episode?

My take away, as far as "The Crown" (Elizabeth II) is concerned is that her main concern was herself, and her inability to SHOW (have?) emotion, to "play her role" effectively.

116 children were crushed/smothered to death, along with 26 adults.  The entire city was devastated by these deaths, deaths that would have devastating impact on their lives forever after.  They died because of greed and complete lack of basic decency in following or responding to repeated cries for help and change to their overlords, the government.  (as mentioned in the show)

Elizabeth, as played by Colman, and as written, yet again showed her completely selfish and cold version of the queen.  

Yes, the two tears were a nice touch, and a nice bit of acting, and I've certainly heard of other cases where tears are simply not a person's "thing."  I don't care that Elizabeth wasn't a person who cried easily, and I certainly don't care that she couldn't cry on command.

What seriously bothers me is that among all that death and all that enormous suffering, and certainly among Britain's complete disregard for these people, their lives, AND their safety?  The only damn thing the queen cared about was herself.

Seriously show?  She said nothing about the people she met, she said nothing about the causes of this disaster, she didn't even ask.  It was all about her.

@albinerhawk We posted at the same time!  I so agree.  I seriously dislike Elizabeth this season, and her one silent staring expression.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[swanpride]

I am not sure if I agree there. Sometimes showing the reaction to a thing is more effective than the actual thing. Showing the reaction to the grief of the people is maybe more effective than showing the grief itself, because most of us can't really grasp how it is to experience such a tragedy, but we can grasp how difficult it is to be confronted with the grief of others and feeling helpless about it. I haven't really stopped thinking of the victims of the tragedy since the episode aired.

[PeterPirate]

I think the more important, underlying fact, is that an episode of The Crown was devoted to Aberfan.  Millions of people, including me, are now aware of this tragedy who did not know of it beforehand.  

I recall that the author of the book Cool Hand Luke was very unhappy with the casting of Paul Newman in the lead role for the movie.  And he had some legitimate criticisms that the movie did not show the brutality of life in a southern prison.  But if not for Paul Newman and the fact that the movie was more watchable than a realistic rendition would have been, millions of people would not have watched it.  

I wouldn't dare to speak for other people, but I would be surprised to learn that there has been generally negative reaction among the Welsh people to this episode.  

Edited November 19, 2019 by PeterPirate

[albinerhawk]

50 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think the more important, underlying fact, is that an episode of The Crown was devoted to Aberfan.  Millions of people, including me, are now aware of this tragedy who did not know of if beforehand.  

I recall that the author of the book Cool Hand Luke was very unhappy with the casting of Paul Newman in the lead role for the movie.  And he had some legitimate criticisms that the movie did not show the brutality of life in a southern prison.  But if not for Paul Newman and the fact that the movie was more watchable than a realistic rendition would have been, millions of people would not have watched it.  

I wouldn't dare to speak for other people, but I would be surprised to learn that there has been generally negative reaction among the Welsh people to this episode.  

I had the same thought as well. The episode did begin well, focusing on the village with just glimpses of the family. The PM going to visit was good. I appreciated Lord Snowden's reaction. The aftermath and political fallout was also well done. I just didn't like it when it went off the rails and focused on the queen. In some ways, this episode reminded me of the great smog episode from season one, but I didn't have the same reservations. In fact, that is one of my favorite episodes in terms of teaching history and was very compelling. The queen's inclusion felt more natural.

[Umbelina]

I don't understand, and I doubt I ever will, why the Queen didn't at least react privately.  When she's told about the disaster, she simply talks protocol.  After meeting some of the families who have lost their children, she fakes a tear.  Then she obsesses about HERSELF and inability to cry on command.

At no point does she show anything that even resembles someone who gives one damn about these victims.  Why didn't they add a conversation with Philip about how horrible it was, for example, or sad, or just a scene when she looks at her own small kids, Edward and Anthony, and have the tears come then?

On the plane, it just seemed like her reason for tears was to prove to herself she COULD cry, but it was prompted by a recorded hymn, not one of the townspeople singing, but just a canned hymn.

Perhaps if there hadn't been so much time focused on Elizabeth's frustration or concern about her OWN self, and that quirk of not being a crier, those tears would have landed better for me.

Instead, all I was thinking was, "good acting there, I wonder if she used drops to make the tears fall?"  At least she isn't staring off into space with that frown on her face for once.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Umbelina
quirk not quick

[swanpride]

Well, there was the breakfast talk. I guess the idea is that Elizabeth isn't able to show much emotions in general, not just in public. I guess because she is never truly alone, there are always servants puttering around. The exception is maybe the bedroom, but if you have played a role the whole day, it might be difficult to let go off it.

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Well, there was the breakfast talk. I guess the idea is that Elizabeth isn't able to show much emotions in general, not just in public. I guess because she is never truly alone, there are always servants puttering around. The exception is maybe the bedroom, but if you have played a role the whole day, it might be difficult to let go off it.

As I said, watching her own kids play, or even a flashback of them playing with Philip, or a phone call with Snowdon...something, some hint that she cared at all about all of those people dead so England could have coal cheaper.

 

Did anyone else look at those mountains of coal slag, in addition to the one (number 7) I believe, that had already collapsed?  

I kept thinking why are they doing nothing to prevent another landslide?

The information shared that that heap was 100 feet tall, when the max allowed for safety was 20 feet, and that many people in the town had written the UK government about the dangers, and specifically about those heaps, and been ignored?  

Just wow.  

It was nice that they mentioned that Elizabeth "visited that town more than any other royal" in later years, but dang, how often and for WHAT possible reason would another royal visit it at all?  They don't even want to go to Wales.  So, if she visited twice, it was probably "more than any other royal."

Also, I wish there had been a postscript, as there was with the smog disaster, about ANY measures taken by the government to correct these heartless practices, or to compensate the people of the town for their tremendous losses.

One other note, why would a Queen visit be any more disruptive than the PM's?  While Elizabeth's first comment seemed reasonable, that she would disrupt things?  Her PM and secretary obviously disagreed with that.  Her follow up comment after the PM said "to offer them comfort" was "To put on a show."

Seriously.  That's what she thinks a monarch does when offering comfort to grieving people that her government essentially murdered for profit?  Comfort is "a show?"  ugh

[swanpride]

The sad thing is, that nobody was ever forced to take responsibility for it. I think one of the people involved even later had a career in safety measures or something like this. And there was something about part of the money which was donated to the town for relief being stolen and later refunded? I would have to look it up again, but the point is that just getting those tips removed was a year long fight.

The difference between the Queen and the PM is, that the Queen comes with more guards and can't really do anything about what is happening other than just being there. The PM needs to asses the situation (which truly, he can only do locally, remember, we are back in the 1960s still), and can eventually give orders which actually might be helpful on a larger scale. Even if it is just about the release of relief funds (if the UK had something like this).  

[Kfir]

Liz really can't get out of her own way at times. A generation of children die in what would have been a reasonably small town and she talks protocol! Sure, she didn't do much while she was there anyway but attending ASAP would have been much better than later on. 

For a Queen who grew up in wartime I kind of expected more from her. 

[Umbelina]

She didn't HAVE to cry at all, to show that she had a drop of empathy for those people, or cared at all about their pain.  All she had to do was drop her head into her hands at the end of the day, or, as I said, go hug her young children, who reportedly, she liked better.

There are so many gestures she could have made, closing her eyes tightly, with a head shake as she shook things off...

This is very odd writing, directing, acting, or editing.

[swanpride]

Well, there was a moment when they showed her diary, and it was only "Aberfan" written in it for Friday. That was very effective.

[pasdetrois]

I guess we were all spoiled because of the advance episode description and the stark episode title "Aberfan." Given the US' own coal mining disasters (and corporate disregard for safety) I was braced for coal miner deaths as opposed to children.

I was enchanted by the initial scenes - long-time neighbors dashing to work in the rain, the young schoolmaster and the squirmy children. I was very taken by the brief shot of the cluster of umbrelled mothers standing at the edge of the school yard, pulling the children in out of the rain as school let out. The bath in front of the fire and everyone practicing the hymn. Just wonderful and so evocative of a time and place.

If they used locals as extras, then I hope production prepared the townpeople for what would be shown in the episode.

Watkins is a revelation to me. What a fantastic actor.

I do sense the use of this episode as a way to humanize Margaret, Snowden and Phillip, after they've all had such a lashing via this series.

The queen's stoicism and lack of emotion surely must be due in part to her life-long training and watching the royals who preceded her. Remember the infamous incident where she left a very young Charles for an extended tour of the commonwealth, during which he didn't see her for months?

I thought the single tear was very predictable and pandered to viewers, but I love Olivia and forgive her.

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

The queen's stoicism and lack of emotion surely must be due in part to her life-long training and watching the royals who preceded her. Remember the infamous incident where she left a very young Charles for an extended tour of the commonwealth, during which he didn't see her for months?

I can't imagine either her father or her mother being that cold and uncaring about over a hundred children dead in such a small town.  I can't imagine either of them not feeling empathy, at least for that.  They both actually seemed to care about their own children though.

[PeterPirate]

One witness' reaction:

Aberfan survivor “uneasy” with The Crown’s depiction of the Queen’s “callous” reaction to tragedy

Quote

Jeff Edwards was eight years old when the disaster took place, and was the last child to be rescued alive from the school. He has since met Queen Elizabeth II several times during her subsequent visits to the area.

He recalled: “We know she did cry, because she went to Jim Williams’ house – and when she came down from the cemetery she was visibly crying.”

[TV Diva Queen]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I can't imagine either her father or her mother being that cold and uncaring about over a hundred children dead in such a small town.  I can't imagine either of them not feeling empathy, at least for that.  They both actually seemed to care about their own children though.

I don't think that she didn't care, I just think that she's a total rule followerer and this is something that hasn't been done before.  

[Umbelina]

36 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I don't think that she didn't care, I just think that she's a total rule followerer and this is something that hasn't been done before.  

We saw her in PRIVATE.  

Maybe the writers thought she would bring the same subtle clues to her inner feelings that Foy so expertly did, or perhaps this entire season is simply a "rah rah poor Charles" exercise, and showing how cold and unfeeling the Queen is to children, even dead children, helps that along.

It's very difficult to not compare this episode with (spoiler tagging another season 3 episode in an excess of caution.) There is a new thread Here, to discuss the season, history, possible future plots that this season may have set up, etc.

Spoiler

it's "twin" in some ways, the other Wales episode this season, where Charles is shown so sympathetic to the Welsh, and Elizabeth can't even squeeze out a bit of empathy for the people of Aberfan after the greatest losses possible for them.  Charles?  Good guy.  Queen?  Unfeeling.  Same country different reactions. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Umbelina
added link

[Magnumfangirl]

Wow, this one was depressing, but the Queen asking Wilson why she should go seemed far fetched.  Peter Morgan seems obsessed with making QEII look tone deaf. 

The second meeting with Wilson when she talked about her father comforting people during the war was interesting.  I thought for sure she was going to say "No one can live up to Papa including me." as her sort of excuse.  Accompanying her parents on those trips to hospitals and bombing sites must of been scary when she was a teen.  She probably was thinking "how will I ever be able to do this?"  Showing emotion and still being able to hold it together and seem in control is very difficult. Her father was able to do it (and it made him beloved), but lots of people can't.  I guess I can see why she might struggle with this kind of thing.  That said, I have my doubts about her inability to cry.  That sounds like made up drama for a TV show.

[Roseanna]

On 11/19/2019 at 10:04 PM, Umbelina said:

I don't understand, and I doubt I ever will, why the Queen didn't at least react privately.  When she's told about the disaster, she simply talks protocol.  After meeting some of the families who have lost their children, she fakes a tear.  Then she obsesses about HERSELF and inability to cry on command.

At no point does she show anything that even resembles someone who gives one damn about these victims.  Why didn't they add a conversation with Philip about how horrible it was, for example, or sad, or just a scene when she looks at her own small kids, Edward and Anthony, and have the tears come then?

On the plane, it just seemed like her reason for tears was to prove to herself she COULD cry, but it was prompted by a recorded hymn, not one of the townspeople singing, but just a canned hymn.

Perhaps if there hadn't been so much time focused on Elizabeth's frustration or concern about her OWN self, and that quirk of not being a crier, those tears would have landed better for me.

Instead, all I was thinking was, "good acting there, I wonder if she used drops to make the tears fall?"  At least she isn't staring off into space with that frown on her face for once.

I think that the writer's point was the discussion between Elizabeth and Wilson where the Queen opened up to Prime Minister (which I doubt never happened irl) and he confessed that all he do in public (pipe, food, drink etc) is only to please his voters.

 Generally, I don't think that we can never know if those public persons who seems to be feeling deeply or emphatic are really such or if they are only good actors - or both.

In any case, I have realized about people that I know that those who are charismatic and seem so wonderful when one meets them aren't, when one learns to know them better, in fact warm and emphatic at all. 

[GaT]

I had never heard of Aberfan, so when the episode started I was getting bored because I didn't care about school kids. Then I saw the sinkhole scene & I thought there was going to be a mining accident & they showed the kids because their fathers died in the mine. I had no idea all those children were going to die, this was a tough episode to watch. I wonder what she said to all those parents? What can you say? Absolutely nothing you say or do can make it better.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, Tony sucks. When you're leaving the house late at night and your wife asks why, the most dickish way to answer that question is, "When you read the papers tomorrow, you'll understand." It would take just as long to say, "A mine collapsed in Wales and I'm going to take photographs."

Seeing even a fake version of the mine ollapse was horrifying. Those poor people.

It was kind of Wilson to tell Elizabeth that she isn't a heartless monster just because she doesn't cry.

On 11/17/2019 at 5:41 PM, Umbelina said:

Remember before this season aired they talked about their decision to forgo the blue contact lenses?  I think the crying scene on the plane was probably their main reason.  Which?  She nailed, and it probably would have been harder or dislodged the contacts.

I've had both soft contact lenses and rigid (gas permeable) contacts. Neither affected my ability to cry and crying does not dislodge them, not even full on ugly crying.

[merylinkid]

I knew about Aberfan prior to this.   Read about it often.   Seeing it re-enacted with horrific.

The Queen fell back on protocol because she didn't know what else to do.   When faced with a new situation, one often falls back into the tried and true.   I don't think she could have gone sooner.   If you dig into the actual events, it was still raining.   The avalanche caused a water main break which added to the slurry and further endangered the town.   

But what really convinced me was when she went to the church that was used as a morgue.  It was so small and so full of those precious little bodies that the parents could only be escorted one at a time in to identify their children.   If the Queen had come before all the bodies were identified, she would have only delayed some parent being able to finally finally know their child had been found and wasn't still laying under all that coal.   

I cannot imagine how the parents that met the Queen in that house felt.   They were grieving but were gathered to put on a show for the Queen.   To have their losses pointed out to a complete stranger so the stranger could murmur sympathies.   Not sure how they managed it.  But the little girl was tickled pink to curtsy to the Queen.   

[TV Diva Queen]

6 hours ago, GaT said:

I had never heard of Aberfan, so when the episode started I was getting bored because I didn't care about school kids. Then I saw the sinkhole scene & I thought there was going to be a mining accident & they showed the kids because their fathers died in the mine. I had no idea all those children were going to die, this was a tough episode to watch. I wonder what she said to all those parents? What can you say? Absolutely nothing you say or do can make it better.

I knew it when the Netflix screen shot for this episode showed her in the burgandy suit standing at the gravesite.  Not knowing anything about this tragedy, I would have love to have gone in unspoiled by Netflix 

[jnymph]

Wow.  I take back what I said about OC as QE2.   She nailed it firmly this episode.   Tobias Menzies continues to be great; as well as the actor playing the PM.  Sorry I'm too lazy to google his name.

I'm another one that was unaware of the horrific Aberfan tragedy.  I went into this episode completely unspoiled and unawares.   It was VERY heartwrenching, to say the least.  Especially considering I'm just a bit younger than the children that would have died, it touched me deeply.   So very heartbreaking.  : (       

Powerful episode. 

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/20/2019 at 5:05 AM, pasdetrois said:

I was enchanted by the initial scenes - long-time neighbors dashing to work in the rain, the young schoolmaster and the squirmy children. I was very taken by the brief shot of the cluster of umbrelled mothers standing at the edge of the school yard, pulling the children in out of the rain as school let out. The bath in front of the fire and everyone practicing the hymn. Just wonderful and so evocative of a time and place.

Agreed - I thought these scenes were beautiful, and a great example of efficient world-building. It also made me think of my own great grandparents who would have lived in a village much like this one about 60 years prior to when this tragedy took place. Sadly, if you were a Welsh miner, your life was filled with tragedy, no matter the era.

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, Tony sucks. When you're leaving the house late at night and your wife asks why, the most dickish way to answer that question is, "When you read the papers tomorrow, you'll understand." It would take just as long to say, "A mine collapsed in Wales and I'm going to take photographs."

Seeing even a fake version of the mine ollapse was horrifying. Those poor people.

It was kind of Wilson to tell Elizabeth that she isn't a heartless monster just because she doesn't cry.

I've had both soft contact lenses and rigid (gas permeable) contacts. Neither affected my ability to cry and crying does not dislodge them, not even full on ugly crying.

One of my favorite movies is Geisha.  The actress had to wear light-grey blue contact lenses throughout the movie.  In one scene she is crying, you can see them dislodge.  I believe the DVD commentary pointed out that they had lots of problems with that, asking the actors involved to do such a powerful and emotional scene AGAIN and again, or  CGI out the obvious slippage of the contacts.  Either way, the actors did such an amazing job, but yeah, you can see the dark brown of her eyes in places when she's crying, in spite of their efforts.

[Margo Leadbetter]

This was definitely one of the most difficult hours of television I've ever seen. I probably knew about Aberfan since I was 12 when it happened, but it faded from memory in the intervening years. As soon as I saw the opening scenes, combined with the fact that it was Wales, my mind immediately went to some kind of mining disaster (I've seen "How Green Was My Valley" too many times—and talk about a gut-wrencher, that'll reach down your throat, wrench out your guts, throw them on the floor and stomp all over them.) Still, I wasn't prepared for what came and it was shattering. I'm a big-time crier but as I watched, I was so numbed by the scope of this tragedy that I was dry-eyed, and it wasn't until later, when I had time to process it, that I choked up. So in that regard, I could understand the Queen's seemingly unemotional response, and that single tear, obvious and cliched as it was, made sense to me.

[Quilt Fairy]

I've always had a very confused image of the Aberfan tragedy, due in large part to the difference between British English and American English.  I knew that some schoolchildren were killed when a "tip" collapsed.  But the only reference I had for "tip" was "rubbish tip" which in the US we would call a dumpster, and seriously, how much damage could be done by  a dumpster?  I had no clue that those mountains of coal slag were also called tips, and that it wasn't just a few children killed, but over a hundred.  

The scene where the slide crashed into the classroom was just shocking, and I'm surprised that the show showed that rather than cutting away at the last minute.  I think a significant portion of this season's budget went into that one scene. 

[Penman61]

I don't know.

I just think something must be deeply deeply wrong when the dramatic climax of a story wherein over 100 children died due to industrial/governmental neglect is whether one of the most privileged persons to have ever lived in the history of our species will be able to spare a tear for them.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Penman61

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I don't know.

I just thing something must be deeply deeply wrong when the dramatic climax of a story wherein over 100 children died due to industrial/governmental neglect is whether one of the most privileged persons to have ever lived in the history of our species will be able to spare a tear for them.

Exactly.

I mean, we all know the series is entitled and about THE CROWN, but damn.

Also apparently this season is sending many people to google "the rest of the story" in droves, there are even articles about just that.

I would have preferred an afterword that included whether or not and when Her Majesty's Government did anything about the horrifying safety concerns they ignored for so long, and whether any compensation or reforms happened.  I didn't mind knowing that the Queen went back to visit, but honestly?

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

would have preferred an afterword that included whether or not and when Her Majesty's Government did anything about the horrifying safety concerns they ignored for so long, and whether any compensation or reforms happened.

I wanted to know about this too - the close-out titles would have been a good place for that info, but sadly I guess we can infer that not much happened as a result of the tragedy.

[pawsodoom]

This was a tough episode for me. I was teary-eyed throughout. 

I had never heard of this tragedy before, even though I am a descendant of Welsh coal miners. In fact, my family was from a town less than 10 miles away from Aberfan. I can't even imagine what it was like for the residents to deal with. I found myself angry at the Queen for her...indifference? ...coldness? ...lack of empathy? about this community. 

The acting, of course, was superb. 

I need a break before I tackle the next episode. 

 

On 11/21/2019 at 5:46 PM, Umbelina said:

I would have preferred an afterword that included whether or not and when Her Majesty's Government did anything about the horrifying safety concerns they ignored for so long, and whether any compensation or reforms happened.  I didn't mind knowing that the Queen went back to visit, but honestly?

I found a recent article online. The Welsh charity commission gave approximately $645 to each family. According to the article, the commission advised that any additional money would ruin the lives of the working class people, who wouldn't be used to large sums of money. 

This link includes some photos: https://www.businessinsider.com/haunting-photos-tragic-aberfan-disaster-1966-2019-11#funerals-took-place-for-those-who-had-died-but-families-had-to-fight-for-money-from-the-fund-for-their-childrens-gravestones-25

[Clanstarling]

On 11/17/2019 at 11:04 AM, swanpride said:

That was a hard episode to watch. I knew nothing about the disaster, but when I saw the children, the rain als the huge mountain or whatever behind the school, I just knew what would happen. All the children singing the night before...that was extremely effective.

Despite being an American, and it happening when I was the same age as those children, I knew about the disaster, but didn't remember the name of the town or the exact date. So I said "oh no" when I realized what was going to happen and dreaded what we were going to see.

On 11/17/2019 at 9:11 PM, ProudMary said:

The camera shot looking down the mass grave at the row of seemingly never-ending, child-sized caskets was overwhelming.

That - not the hymn - is what brought me to tears. That long row of little coffins was devastating. I thought Tobias was wonderful in that scene.

On 11/17/2019 at 9:23 PM, Ravenya003 said:

Unpopular opinion, but I think the single tear at the end was a bit much. It would have been more powerful to end on that shot of her from behind, face unseen, leaving us to wonder whether or not she was moved by the hymn. 

I love Coleman, and it was a nice piece of work. Unfortunately, it was way too much for us. It took us out of the episode instead of drawing us in. We started started laughing and doing commentary like it was a horse race or something, ending with "we have achieved a tear!"

On 11/19/2019 at 8:59 AM, albinerhawk said:

As with previous posters, I also had no idea what Aberfan was about. I kept having to resist picking up my phone and googling it before the episode was over. I found the scenes with Aberfan really moving, and was surprised that Tony actually did go to help.

My take was that Tony went to take photos, but the tragedy overwhelmed him and he dropped his photographer's objectivity was drawn into the horror.

On 11/19/2019 at 12:04 PM, Umbelina said:

I don't understand, and I doubt I ever will, why the Queen didn't at least react privately.  When she's told about the disaster, she simply talks protocol.  After meeting some of the families who have lost their children, she fakes a tear.  Then she obsesses about HERSELF and inability to cry on command.

At no point does she show anything that even resembles someone who gives one damn about these victims.  Why didn't they add a conversation with Philip about how horrible it was, for example, or sad, or just a scene when she looks at her own small kids, Edward and Anthony, and have the tears come then?

Tears are not the be all and end all of showing emotion. In fact, in other shows/performances where the tear duct isn't part of the narrative, so much emotion is shown without having to rely on tears. It did seem pretty cold, not even reacting in private - or doing at least what Tony did - think about your own children.  I didn't cry at any of my family's funerals, but that doesn't mean I didn't look grief stricken or that I didn't feel it.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Clanstarling

[Blakeston]

Wilson had seemed so likable, but the ending cast him in a pretty bad light, IMO. He allowed the queen to think that his staff had "broken ranks," when in fact they had screamed in his face the plan to paint a target squarely on her back.

[meep.meep]

On 11/18/2019 at 12:21 PM, Umbelina said:

During the "San Francisco World Series" earthquake (really the Loma Prieta earthquake nearer the coast, Santa Cruz area) I was about a mile from epicenter.  I watched my employees dig people out of collapsed buildings with their bare hands.  We did have emergency personnel, but certainly not enough, and their mobility was severely compromised by downed bridges, roads, and being needed elsewhere.  No one to "ask" so people just did what they could.

We see it all the time in earthquakes around the world as well, the ones on scene in those first critical moments do whatever they can.  There are so many examples of these kinds of actions where quick action HAS saved lived.  I'm sure that in Aberfan parents and others were trying to dig children out of the rubble immediately, and I sincerely doubt ANYONE stopped to ask whatever officials were around "Is this OK?"

Thanks for mentioning this.  There were a lot of brave men from Oakland who climbed into the collapsed Cypress Structure and got people out of cars who would have died otherwise.  All the emergency personnel were dealing with fires.  Sometimes you just have to help.

I did know about Aberfan.  So the first 15 minutes of this were white knuckled anticipation.

Who makes kids go back to school on Saturday these days?

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

Thanks for mentioning this.  There were a lot of brave men from Oakland who climbed into the collapsed Cypress Structure and got people out of cars who would have died otherwise.  All the emergency personnel were dealing with fires.  Sometimes you just have to help.

I did know about Aberfan.  So the first 15 minutes of this were white knuckled anticipation.

Who makes kids go back to school on Saturday these days?

I don't know about England and Wales, but when I went to school in Germany roughly around the same time, we had school on Saturday. Of course, we got out of school about 1pm most days, as I recall (and had a boat load of holidays we don't have in the US).

Edited November 23, 2019 by Clanstarling

[meep.meep]

Oddly enough, I went to school in Germany around the same time.  But I went to the schools run by the US military.  We envied you getting out at 1, but were glad we didn't have to go on Saturday.  We were really happy we didn't have to take the Arbitur.

Perspective is everything.

[mledawn]

On 11/18/2019 at 12:23 AM, Ravenya003 said:

Special kudos to Richard Harrington as one of the grieving parents (the father who had the little girl with the glasses) - he's a character actor who's been around for a while now (usually in period pieces). The way his voice cracked at the meeting with the coal board...

I was so excited to see Richard Harrington, I wish he'd had more to do. I loved him in Hinterland (Team Beard!). He was born in a town very near to Aberfan, so it was probably a neat opportunity for him to be a part of recreating that history.

It was devastating to see the range of damage caused by the slurry. I understood that the miners coordinated the rescue effort because the workers there would all be familiar with rescues from tunnel collapses. When the entire dig site went quiet to listen - that was a coordinated effort that happens when people are all on the same page.

All the actors did a fantastic job conveying how they were affected by the Aberfan disaster. It's no surprise at all that a country known for its emotion and choirs would perform such a beautiful hymn at the funeral.

Tobias Menzies is killing it as Philip, and I'm completely not surprised by that.

[Milburn Stone]

On 11/21/2019 at 4:38 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

I've always had a very confused image of the Aberfan tragedy, due in large part to the difference between British English and American English.  I knew that some schoolchildren were killed when a "tip" collapsed.  But the only reference I had for "tip" was "rubbish tip" which in the US we would call a dumpster, and seriously, how much damage could be done by  a dumpster? 

Thanks for this. I too was clueless as to what a "tip" was in the context of the episode (except "thing that caused the calamity"), and now I know.

Boy. As disappointed as I was by "Margaretology," what a comeback this episode was. I'm in agreement with those who think that the ending would have been more powerful without the tear. I was thinking it in real time as they pushed in on her from the back; literally voicing to myself, "don't cut to a closeup of her face, this is the perfect ending right now, if only you can realize it, Peter Morgan." We knew the emotions going on inside her. How much better it would have been to end with one remaining mystery only, whether those emotions could produce a tear. I would have been more sympathetic to her--and certainly more moved--if I could believe that with all that going on inside her, she still couldn't access the catharsis that crying would bring. But they couldn't resist the obvious. Oh well. Nobody's perfect.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[SusanwatchingTV]

On 11/18/2019 at 8:54 AM, swanpride said:

Even the Sandy Hook massacre "only" killed 20 children. Aberfan killed over 100. There was certainly not one single member in the community which didn't lose at least one child from their close family.

It's not my intention to play any of those shootings down, they were all terrible, and one person dying (never mind a child) is one too much. But the scale of what happened in Aberfan is quite unique. There have been catastrophes in which over 100 people died, but I can't think of a case in which specifically over 100 children died. It's like the village lost a whole generation in one single day.

Here in Texas we, sadly, can beat all of those numbers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion

My mother remembers the stories because she lost family members.

[PeterPirate]

This blurb from a book titled Monarch backs up the show's version about why Elizabeth waited to visit Aberfan.  

[swanpride]

This London School explosion...wow...I wondered why I never heard of this one until I read about the relatives of the victims being so unwilling to talk about it. I completely get it.