S16.E07: Papa Don't Preach

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Catherine is back in town and has no idea what's been going on between Jackson and Maggie, while her relationship with Richard has become distant. Owen and Amelia treat a woman who fell in the basement and quickly realize that there is more to the story; and Maggie is shocked to learn about some of Richard's relatives who are seeking help.

Promo:

Original air date: 11/7/19

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Obligatory music post:

[Ohwell]

Maggie's cousin spoke in that annoying way just like Maggie.  While I'm sorry the cousin died, I'm kinda cackling because Maggie now realizes she's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I really felt sorry for the father though.

Jasmine Guy looks rough.

[statsgirl]

Owen came off much better than I thought he would from the promo. I remembered why I once shipped him with Amelia. I liked Amelia telling him that she had changed because of their time together.

Jackson, on the other hand, gives new meaning to the work "jackass". From his first words when Maggie said that they had to talk "I am talking. To someone." to expecting Richard to tell Catherine that he had split with Maggie, to constantly telling Maggie how much better Vic is than Maggie herself, he was a huge fail as a human being.

Kelly McCreary's sister did a really good job. There was no need to kill Sabi, show. It would have been more fun to have her alive and Maggie try to navigate the two families.

13 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Maggie's cousin spoke in that annoying way just like Maggie.  While I'm sorry the cousin died, I'm kinda cackling because Maggie now realizes she's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Much of that was because the anesthesiologist was incompetent and didn't tell Maggie that the blood was clotting.

Edited November 8, 2019 by statsgirl

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Much of that was because the anaestesiology was incompetent and didn't tell Maggie that the blood was clotting.

Maybe so.  I'm not a doctor but, still, Maggie came in there acting like she was the shit.  I'm sorry the patient died, but I was glad that Maggie's face broke.

[ams1001]

Thank you, show, for not making Owen the complete angry ass I was expecting him to be.

Shouldn't the people in charge of monitoring whatever with the blood clotting know what changes the surgeon needs to know about without her having to ask?

[funnygirl]

Leo is not going to be Amelia and Link's baby's sibling. Stop that nonsense, show. Amelia never adopted Leo, she was Betty's guardian and Leo's glorified babysitter. Let Amelia and Link have their own little family separate from Owen and Teddy's please.  

How is it that after all this time, Catherine doesn't know that Jackson and Maggie aren't together anymore? She's been in town on and off since the breakup and it's not like it's a big secret. Their bickering is tired. The immaturity of these doctors has hit an all time low. 

The stuff with Maggie and Sabi was very heavy-handed. They literally just met, but the overshare and rapid-fire "getting to know you" was too much; like they were trying to lay a significant foundation so that Sabi's death could hit harder. I prefer genuine storytelling over forced moments and connections. 

[Bulldog]

I'm not a Jackson fan, but "I'm talking . . . to someone else" is a line I'm definitely going to try to work into a conversation sometime soon.

[KaveDweller]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Much of that was because the anaestesiology was incompetent and didn't tell Maggie that the blood was clotting.

Was part of that because Maggie was not used to operating in that hospital? He said their usual doctor always asks. It sounds like it isn't usual to have to do, but there is something to be said for being a team that knows each other and how to work together.

Sucks that they killed her, and I know it wasn't Maggie's fault, but she was super obnoxious with ignoring Sabi's wishes and insisting she was better than everyone else. I am kind of sick of everyone on this show always insisting they are the best surgeon around. Can't they just all be good doctors?

[Guest]

Maggie is so immature. She was so excited/desperate to get to operate and then she can’t even face the family without Alex having to coach her through it. 
 

I thought Owen’s reaction was justified and fine. Amelia put him through a lot.

I didn’t miss the characters that weren’t there/barely there (Meredith, Deluca, Bailey, etc)

[moonorchid]

I’m reminded when Maggie came back after her mom died and took Nathan’s surgery from him and got the patient to okay it cause she’s the best ever and doesn’t she want the best? I honestly hated it then (and yes, I would have hated it if it was Derek, it’s arrogant to an annoying level) and it all worked out so that just fuels Maggie’s arrogance. She’s a genius and should be confident, but arrogance kills. It prob wasn’t her fault but she was working in a hospital that’s not hers with people she doesn’t know which just leaves too many variables unknown. It’s interesting that they took a semi similar situation and the surgery went south. Especially since she just declared surgery was her one true love. Maggie’s never dealt with failure and it’s double cause this was a family member. It doesn’t surprise me that she had to have Alex coach her to tell the family. One, she prob rarely has to do it cause she is that good, and two, if we’ve been shown one thing about Maggie it’s how she doesn’t know how to deal with emotions. 

[LexieLily]

13 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

Leo is not going to be Amelia and Link's baby's sibling. Stop that nonsense, show. Amelia never adopted Leo, she was Betty's guardian and Leo's glorified babysitter. Let Amelia and Link have their own little family separate from Owen and Teddy's please.  

It was uncomfortable enough for me last week when Owen referred to Alison and Leo as "our babies" to Teddy. Yes, Leo is Owen's child and so he is Alison's sibling and Teddy is Alison's mother, but Teddy barely has a relationship with Leo and didn't know he existed until a few months ago. When Amelia brought Leo to see Teddy/Owen post-Alison birth and then they all had to leave, Teddy looked petrified like she'd never seen that child before in her life.  

[readster]

12 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Was part of that because Maggie was not used to operating in that hospital? He said their usual doctor always asks. It sounds like it isn't usual to have to do, but there is something to be said for being a team that knows each other and how to work together.

Sucks that they killed her, and I know it wasn't Maggie's fault, but she was super obnoxious with ignoring Sabi's wishes and insisting she was better than everyone else. I am kind of sick of everyone on this show always insisting they are the best surgeon around. Can't they just all be good doctors?

I'm over this other hospital has such idiots. "Oh this thing is catching fire, let me move it towards the oxygen tanks so I can see it better." I mean, the blood is clotting and it's: "You didn't ask!" Everyone talking about Meredith losing her license, I can see everyone at once losing theirs. They are such idiots. 

[bybrandy]

I mean really Richad should have insisted she go to the better hospital the second she got to pac Gen and yes the protocol may be different at pac Gen but the anesthesiologist when realizing something wasn't right should inform the doctor that something isn't right even if it is not protocol.   

Owen had a right to be angry, but he absolutely did not have a right to force his anger onto that patient.  And yes, he owned that at the end but no.   Just NO.

[BluBarbi98]

15 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I mean really Richad should have insisted she go to the better hospital the second she got to pac Gen and yes the protocol may be different at pac Gen but the anesthesiologist when realizing something wasn't right should inform the doctor that something isn't right even if it is not protocol.   

Agreed. Richard should have sent them any other hospital that wasn’t one he works at once they started protesting Maggie’s involvement. That was a lose- lose situation for him and I feel bad for him but not for Maggie.

Also, that anesthesiologist is a complete idiot. Yes, the other surgeon asks him but that means he watched while this patient was dying and didn’t alert anyone. Shouldn’t he know what those numbers mean too?

[Lady Calypso]

So...the Maggie stuff....yes, she made a terrible mistake with insisting that she operate on Sabrina. She had a point that she wasn't really her family since they just met so she wouldn't get distracted. And, to be fair, it wasn't Maggie's fault. Any doctor would have killed Sabrina in that hospital because it was the anesthesiologist's issue with not letting Maggie know about the clotting. It's also partially on Maggie because she doesn't know any of the people she was working with and she probably should have taken a few minutes to ask what they are used to in the OR with their lead doctor. But that's still minor compared to the incompetent doctors around her who SHOULD have told her. She shouldn't NEED to ask about that kind of information.

But it was a mistake, not really on Maggie. It wasn't incompetence on her end; it was just a fatal mistake. But what made it worse was the fact that she IS family and now Chris has to deal with Maggie in his life forever, thanks to her being family, and that he'll always see her now as the niece who was operating on his daughter when she died. 

So, it's the first time I really felt bad for Maggie. This arc could potentially be very interesting, if they deal with the fallout. I didn't even feel bad for Maggie when her mom died, so this interests me. It's the first thing that has interested me about Maggie ever.

So...the Owen/Amelia stuff went about as well as I expected. I don't blame Owen for needing a moment to process. I didn't like his attitude toward her in general, but I didn't mind their last scene. However...Owen still kind of sucks in general. It's hard to look past the Owen/Amelia history and try to imagine them as friends. 

But, no, Amelia. You guys ARE NOT family. Amelia, you never even liked Leo. You were only i it for Betty, and now she's gone so you don't need to have any family dinners with Teddy, Owen, Leo, and Alison. You two aren't connected anymore. 

Richard sucks for not telling Catherine the truth. Gemma is the worst. And when Catherine, of all people, comes out looking better in this scenario, even with her history, I feel like I'm in another dimension.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

Was part of that because Maggie was not used to operating in that hospital? He said their usual doctor always asks. It sounds like it isn't usual to have to do, but there is something to be said for being a team that knows each other and how to work together.

It was another example of how mad a hospital Pac Med is.

The way the OR at Pac Med worked is that the surgeon would regularly ask the anesthesiologist if they blood was flowing properly for the surgery. Presumably he or she would also ask for other levels from time to time like if the blood is oxygenation.

Maggie was used to working with a surgical team that had half a brain, by which I assume that the other members of the team would monitor their own equipment and tell the surgeon if something is wrong. Because the anesthesiologist didn't say anything, Maggie assumed that everything was going fine.  He basically watched Sabi die on his watch and didn't say anything.

The logical solution  would have been if the surgeon on-call had gone in with Maggie to be her second in the surgery because no surgeon does a difficult operation like that without an assistant. Then he or she could have regularly asked for levels, and stepped in if Maggie became overcome at seeing someone who looks so much like her on the OR table as Sabi feared.

But this is Grey's, logic has no place in the storytelling.

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Richard sucks for not telling Catherine the truth. Gemma is the worst. And when Catherine, of all people, comes out looking better in this scenario, even with her history, I feel like I'm in another dimension.

Gemma needs to learn to take a hint and keep her hands to herself. 

I liked Catherine offering her job opportunities with the foundation...in another state. 😄 

[NUguy514]

As soon as "Sabi" (ugh) graced our collective presence with her twittering, annoying sunniness and showed Maggie and Richard her heart tumor, did any of us doubt for a second that she was toast?

Yes, Maggie was being incredibly inappropriate by insisting from the beginning that she operate; however, once "Sabi" crashed, her father's time for obstinacy was over.  Like, his daughter was literally dying in front of him, and he wants to wait?  No, that's fucking ridiculous.  Also, it now seems that Richard is not the only Webber who's an insufferable, sanctimonious, judgmental, whiny shithead.  I had zero sympathy for Chris since he was such a one-dimensional sourpuss asshole from the moment he came onscreen (that might have been the actor, though, who gave a pretty terrible performance).

Still, while Maggie probably shouldn't have operated, she was there and ready when the surgery needed to happen.  It's not her fault "Sabi" died: that's completely on the incompetent anesthesiologist, who watched a patient die because Maggie didn't ask for an update.  No, son, that's on you, you dipshit.

In the Catherine/Gemma pissing contest over Richard, there are only losers.  I kind of hope Gemma tells Richard Catherine tried to buy her off, and then I hope Catherine becomes so enraged that she shoots Gemma, Richard, and bystander Jackson (because, seriously, fuck him) in a jealous, insane rage before she turns the gun on herself.  That would solve a few of my problems for me.

Owen, son,

The only reason his interaction with Amelia went as amicably as it did is because Amelia approached him compassionately.  I do blame him for taking his anger at her out on an innocent patient, but, as I expressed above, he's literally the worst.  Amelia is to be credited entirely with the congenial conclusion to that episode thread, and good for her for making Owen resemble someone over the age of six for four seconds.  You're rocking this season, girl!  Keep it up!

[Chas411]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

constantly telling Maggie how much better Vic is than Maggie herself, he was a huge fail as a human being.

This is exactly how he treated April after they split and Harriet was born. Maggie was his new shiny object and he had no time for April except to look down on her. Now Maggie is in the April position with Vic as the new shiny object. 
 

I do think they’ll eventually get back together but I think the show have made it hard to root for Jackson with anyone. And Maggie sucks 90% of the time too. 

[bybrandy]

3 hours ago, Sarah Heart said:

, didn't Sabi have any health records with her, blood work, anything?

Heparin not working for you isn't something you would know unless you've had heparin before which isn't likely to have happened for a young healthy woman.   My mom overreacts to heparin which is something we only learned that time it almost killed her.  Now my sisters and I have been told that we MIGHT want to mention to doctors that there is a family history of an issue with heparin... neither my mom, my sisters, or I have ever been in a situation where heparin has ever been brought up again.   

[GSMHvisitor]

So this was basically another centric, with only 2 stories and only 4 (5 if you count Catherine which I hate to do) of the main characters affected. With the one two weeks ago and the one following next week about Meredith that makes 3 centrics in 9 episodes.

Don't get me wrong, I love that I don't have to see all of these characters every episode, but I can't help noticing that Alex is never one of the characters who has had an active story in any centric and they've been doing lots of them the past few seasons. I'm so beyond tired of Alex always being sidelined.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Usually Owen is #1 on my shit list, but I have never related to him more when he couldn't take a picture because his phone was out of memory and Teddy told him he needed to delete some pictures on his phone and his logical response was "No, I just need a bigger phone."

Don't worry - Owen went right back on my shit list when he got all shirty about his patient having an abortion. Not only did he brush aside everything Amelia said about having an OB schedule a procedure for her but then he had then nerve to tell Amelia "you don't get to come to my work and order me around." This is a prime example of his fragile male ego. She didn't order him around at all (she simply gave the patient information about what could be done if she wanted an abortion) but of course Owen is such an emotionally stunted baby that he interprets that as Amelia bossing him around. No, you idiot, that's called providing your patient with medical options, which is something you should have done on your own. Amelia shouldn't have had to be the one to bring it up but since you were too busy making assumptions and being judgey ("So you threw yourself down the stairs?"), Amelia did it because she was concerned about THE PATIENT. Owen was a dick to Amelia and he was completely unprofessional with his patient. So, you know, the usual.

I am not one of those people who calls my mom every single day to tell her about the minutiae of my day, but it's been WEEKS since Jackson and Maggie broke up and Jackson never got around to telling Catherine? And his response to Maggie pointing this out was "So you haven't told Richard?" Dude, sack up and just tell your mother yourself.

Jackson was a total dick to Maggie, but the one thing I will say he was correct about in that conversation was that Maggie just ran up and interrupted him while he was giving instructions to a nurse about a patient. Maggie has eyes. She can see that he is having a conversation with a nurse. She could have waited until he was done talking to approach him. I mean, I know no one else in this damn hospital does, but still.

If Alex was hoping to convince more doctors from Grey Sloan to migrate to Pac North, I think the incompetence of the guy who just watched Sabi's stats drop without saying a word will be enough to keep anyone from wanting to defect.

Seeing Alex calmly but sternly tell Maggie to take a minute to let it all out and then pull herself together because it was still her responsibility to inform Uncle Chris what happened was a great reminder of how far Alex has come since S1. He is going to do a good job mentoring residents (if he can manage to get anyone competent, that is).

@NUguy514 A+ CXG gif!

[DEL901]

Owen is a dick.   
 

when he was in the parking lot with Amelia, there was a moment where I thought he was wishing they were back together and I thought he was going to kiss her.   The show had better not be working on a way to get them back together.  

[ShellySelf]

With Maggie, I’m wondering if they will be taking her down the “genetically pre-disposed to alcoholism” storyline with this failed surgery?

Also, never liked Owen, still don’t. 

And Whitley needs to take the hint. 
 

[geauxaway]

Mer was at Pac Gen to have coffee with Alex, but we never got to see that meeting.  I’m bummed!  I miss their friendship and I don’t think they’ve had any (?) scenes together yet this season?  Also, why was Mer dressed like Suzie from Mrs. Maisel?  She looked ridiculous in her little orphan scamp get up.  Usually I like her clothes, today she looked ridiculous!

Missed seeing Link.  ☹️

[anna0852]

5 hours ago, Chas411 said:

This is exactly how he treated April after they split and Harriet was born. Maggie was his new shiny object and he had no time for April except to look down on her. Now Maggie is in the April position with Vic as the new shiny object. 
 

I do think they’ll eventually get back together but I think the show have made it hard to root for Jackson with anyone. And Maggie sucks 90% of the time too. 

That is exactly what I was thinking. Vic deserves way better. Does she know what Jackson did at April's wedding? I can't imagine that story isn't well known throughout the Seattle fire department. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, ShellySelf said:

With Maggie, I’m wondering if they will be taking her down the “genetically pre-disposed to alcoholism” storyline with this failed surgery?

I think the storyline will be forgotten by next episode.

[readster]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If Alex was hoping to convince more doctors from Grey Sloan to migrate to Pac North, I think the incompetence of the guy who just watched Sabi's stats drop without saying a word will be enough to keep anyone from wanting to defect.

Seeing Alex calmly but sternly tell Maggie to take a minute to let it all out and then pull herself together because it was still her responsibility to inform Uncle Chris what happened was a great reminder of how far Alex has come since S1. He is going to do a good job mentoring residents (if he can manage to get anyone competent, that is).

@NUguy514 A+ CXG gif!

At this point, the hospital would have been shut down. Hell, the medical schools that PASSED these doctors would be under question. I mean, no one at the hospital except the doctors who came from Grey/Sloan know anything. I mean, come on there was an unmarked graveyard in the back? I mean come on, city records would have shown that? In this case: "You didn't ask." If I was Alex I be: "Get the hell out!" "I'm also reporting you to the board, you SHOULDN'T be a doctor if you are that dumb!" 

[RedbirdNelly]

49 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

Mer was at Pac Gen to have coffee with Alex, but we never got to see that meeting.  I’m bummed!  I miss their friendship and I don’t think they’ve had any (?) scenes together yet this season?  Also, why was Mer dressed like Suzie from Mrs. Maisel?  She looked ridiculous in her little orphan scamp get up.  Usually I like her clothes, today she looked ridiculous!

Missed seeing Link.  ☹️

I was puzzled by Mer's clothes too and thought there was going to be some explanation as to why the hat and the all green garb. I like hats but that was not normal Mer styling. (I didn't think of the Suzie reference but that is dead on).

I was surprised by the Amelia/Owen resolution. If they left out the parking lot part, it would have been a really typical stupid Grey's interaction--why on earth go to the other hospital to mention this during his shift? why the stupid stuff animal ploy that didn't actually make any sense? why does Owen have to get so over the top about things?   but they saved it with a surprisingly mature conversation in the parking lot, even including an apology for dropping this information in the middle of his work day. Speaking like adults. More of this please.

I hate storylines where one character doesn't know a couple has broken up but for some reason the parties to that relationship can just speak up and say they aren't together. There was no reason for Maggie not to blurt out we broke up. . happy to have dinner as a family since we're still step siblings. . .

[ams1001]

23 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

why on earth go to the other hospital to mention this during his shift?

Why do they always have to have these conversations in public places, too?

[RoxiP]

I actually like that Amelia still wants to have a relationship with Leo, and by extension Allison.  As a single parent I always felt that the more people in my life who loved my child the better off she was.  Many of my friends (and their husbands) stepped in to help me - she has aunts and uncles who do not share one single drop of blood but she (and I) knows she can trust implicitly.  I couldn't have made it through her childhood without them.  

Sometimes families are made in our hearts and not in our genetics.

[RedbirdNelly]

16 minutes ago, RoxiP said:

I actually like that Amelia still wants to have a relationship with Leo, and by extension Allison.  As a single parent I always felt that the more people in my life who loved my child the better off she was.  Many of my friends (and their husbands) stepped in to help me - she has aunts and uncles who do not share one single drop of blood but she (and I) knows she can trust implicitly.  I couldn't have made it through her childhood without them.  

Sometimes families are made in our hearts and not in our genetics.

agreed; I wasn't bothered by the Leo/Amelia/Owen we'll be family part. It's nice that they want to try to do that. Not a negative.

[marceline]

Good on the show for showing and telling information on medication abortions. I hope that information makes its way to someone who needs it.

And once again, Owen gets patriarchal about a woman's fertility. He has serious issues there which no doubt comes from his experience with Cristina but after his magical therapy last season I had hoped we wouldn't see this side of him again.

I'll be honest, I really didn't think they'd kill off Sabi. That scene where Richard's brother mention Adele is probably what made Catherine decide to try and send Gemma away.

[Jillybean]

I actually kinda likes Sabi, but I'm glad they didn't keep her on, because this show would have made the preposterous claim that Meredith and Amelia were her cousins. 

Meredith's getup reminded me of Oliver Twist.

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Meredith's getup reminded me of Oliver Twist.

Yes! Thank you for that! 🤣

[dmc]

Amelia and Linc have become my favorite couple, how did this HAPPEN?

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

I actually kinda likes Sabi, but I'm glad they didn't keep her on, because this show would have made the preposterous claim that Meredith and Amelia were her cousins. 

Meredith's getup reminded me of Oliver Twist.

Please sir can I have some more?

[BaseOps]

The final conversation between Owen and Amelia exemplifies the difference between before Krista returned as head writer and after. Stacey as showrunner would have dragged this out for 3 episodes and made Owen a complete ass the whole time. In this case, he DID still fuck up and have an awful reaction,  but they discussed it, he acknowledged his bad behaviour, articulated what caused it, and they resolved it. He has been a lot more bearable this season, honestly. 

This was an enjoyable but not fantastic episode. Looking forward to the next two.

[iMonrey]

Please stop telling me Maggie is the bestest heart surgeon in the whole wide world in one scene, then showing her flailing around screaming in the OR while Alex has to tell her that her patient is beyond saving. Isn't she supposed to be a genius? Shouldn't she know when a patient has passed the critical limit herself without Alex having to tell her? That's pretty basic stuff for a surgeon whether you're the best cardiologist in the country or not.

Quote

Kelly McCreary's sister did a really good job.

Oh, so they were related? I wondered. I thought it was odd when Maggie saw her across the room and went "Wait, does that girl look like me?" Because . . . not really. I mean, I guess there's a family resemblance but not so much that I would mistake one for the other. That was kind of a dumb line.

[dmc]

This was actually a good episode. 
I felt for Richard, it’s difficult when you are successful and you’re whole family resents you for that success.  I can’t blame him for not keeping in touch, who wants to feel bad all the time or walk on eggshells to have a conversation.  I’m surprised people are blaming Maggie.  My take is her cousin had a serious condition and another surgeon could have had the same result.  I think she should have honored the patient’s wishes.  You give them options and if they choose the lesser surgeon it’s on them.  But I don’t think this is a reflection on her talent. 
 

My only thought with regard to Owen is poor Teddy.  Owen still loves Amelia and Teddy should have stayed with Koracik.  Also Owen being awful to a patient to get even with Amelia is exactly why Amelia should be with Linc.  She’s changed so much for the better since she got rid of Owen.

Richard should just tell Catherine the truth, he didn’t do anything wrong.  Why do people keep dumb secrets

I think the episode recipe for success is little to no Meredith

Edited November 8, 2019 by dmc

[ams1001]

14 minutes ago, dmc said:

My take is her cousin had a serious condition and another surgeon could have had the same result.  I think she should have honored the patient’s wishes.  You give them options and if they choose the lesser surgeon it’s on them.  But I don’t think this is a reflection on her talent. 

Yeah, she had a huge tumor that got worse in the few weeks between her scan and when she went to see Richard. And a resistance to a medication that they couldn't have known about until they gave it to her. And she was crashing from that first fact before they even got to the point of learning that second fact. She was already in dire straits. Not sure how much of a difference it would have made if Maggie had known the blood thinners weren't working sooner. It seems unlikely another surgeon would have had a different outcome. It was just to illustrate how you shouldn't operate on family members (even though she just met them and didn't have a real connection, personally, she was still Richard's niece and Maggie operating unsuccessfully would still have had a huge impact on the family dynamics that wouldn't have happened with an unconnected surgeon, even if it was 100% obvious she couldn't have been saved either way).

Edited November 8, 2019 by ams1001

[dmc]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, she had a huge tumor that got worse in the few weeks between her scan and when she went to see Richard. And a resistance to a medication that they couldn't have known about until they gave it to her. And she was crashing from that first fact before they even got to the point of learning that second fact. She was already in dire straits. Not sure how much of a difference it would have made if Maggie had known the blood thinners weren't working sooner. It seems unlikely another surgeon would have had a different outcome. It was just to illustrate how you shouldn't operate on family members (even though she just met them and didn't have a real connection, personally, she was still Richard's niece and Maggie operating unsuccessfully would still have had a huge impact on the family dynamics that wouldn't have happened with an unconnected surgeon, even if it was 100% obvious she couldn't have been saved either way).

I honestly think just the patient telling her they were uncomfortable is reason enough for her to step aside.  
 

It’s ironic that two of the main storylines are two doctors circumventing the wishes of their patient and not hearing them. 
 

Maggie’s cousin told her she was not okay with her performing it.  Unless there are no other surgeons available, that’s acceptable.  It wasn’t  about what Maggie felt or didn’t feel.  
 

Then Owen has the exact same issue with his patient.  He’s not listening to anything she says or her wishes. First he incorrectly assumed she threw her self down the stairs and then he think she’s not in the frame of mind to decide whether she wants to be pregnant or not.  

[statsgirl]

8 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Not sure how much of a difference it would have made if Maggie had known the blood thinners weren't working sooner.

They could have tried another blood thinner like warfarin (Coumadin) or enoxoparin. And if that didn't work, taken her off the bypass machine since the clotting was gumming it up, and tried to do it old school or at a later date. The anesthesiologist really screwed up.

Given the size of her tumor and the clotting, it was a very risky surgery anyway and the patient probably would have died. Having it be a soul-twin cousin was there to up the angst.

And now Richard will probably never be able to contact his family again.

[RoxiP]

31 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They could have tried another blood thinner like warfarin (Coumadin) or enoxoparin. And if that didn't work, taken her off the bypass machine since the clotting was gumming it up, and tried to do it old school or at a later date. The anesthesiologist really screwed up.

Given the size of her tumor and the clotting, it was a very risky surgery anyway and the patient probably would have died. Having it be a soul-twin cousin was there to up the angst.

And now Richard will probably never be able to contact his family again.

Quite honestly, I think we are going to find out that the reason they waited several weeks to come to Seattle was because Richard's brother didn't want to ask Richard for help so he dragged his feet refusing to bring his daughter to Seattle.

[taanja]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Richard should just tell Catherine the truth, he didn’t do anything wrong.  Why do people keep dumb secrets

I think the episode recipe for success is little to no Meredith

Totally opposite here! This was a failure of an ep for me. BECAUSE there was so little of Meredith. She (and Alex basically) are the two characters I still care about and why I still watch this show .

So that was the actress who plays Maggie's true life sister? They did kind of look alike and so did the dude who was supposed to be Richard's brother - he kind of resembled Richard. But that whole story-line made me impatient. Girl cousin was doomed from the moment she walked through the door. The show practically screamed it.

Don't care about Owen or his issues.

I have nuthin' else to add cuz it really was a filler ep IMO. Kind of a waste of my time to be honest.

[dmc]

14 minutes ago, taanja said:

Totally opposite here! This was a failure of an ep for me. BECAUSE there was so little of Meredith. She (and Alex basically) are the two characters I still care about and why I still watch this show .

So that was the actress who plays Maggie's true life sister? They did kind of look alike and so did the dude who was supposed to be Richard's brother - he kind of resembled Richard. But that whole story-line made me impatient. Girl cousin was doomed from the moment she walked through the door. The show practically screamed it.

Don't care about Owen or his issues.

I have nuthin' else to add cuz it really was a filler ep IMO. Kind of a waste of my time to be honest.

we all have our favorites:) she'll be back

[Guest]

The concept of family is very convoluted on Grey's. I think they're going for a "you choose your family" thing, but other times they don't. For example, Maggie is Meredith's sister even though they weren't raised together and were well into adulthood when they met.  Amelia and Maggie are sisters because Maggie's half-sister who she never knew was married to Amelia's brother.  Even when they didn't seem to like each other, they had this almost "we need to work it out because we're family" vibe (with Meredith as well).  Richard never knew Maggie or even that he had a daughter, but they're family.  But when she dates his stepson, that's not family.  And Amelia now acts like the son of the teenager she took in for a few months is going to be the brother of her unborn child. But when Maggie doesn't feel familial about her blood relatives that she never met, the show insists they are her family.

If it were strictly "you make your family" I would get it, but half the time it seems like they can't decide which message they're going for.

[taanja]

9 minutes ago, dmc said:

we all have our favorites:) she'll be back

Nest week it looks like.

[Ohwell]

While I could sympathize somewhat with Richard for having family members who resented his success, he lost me when he asked his brother--a grown ass, presumably working man--if he needed money for the fucking vending machine.  I didn't blame the brother for his reaction, and it made me wonder if Richard threw his success in his brother's and maybe other family members' faces.  I just think we didn't get the whole story and there was probably more to it.