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S16.E07: Papa Don't Preach


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4 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Meredith's getup reminded me of Oliver Twist.

I was thinking more Les Mis, but Oliver Twist works too.   Although I would have paid good money to hear Meredith break in to "Can You Hear the People Sing?" 

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And now Richard will probably never be able to contact his family again.

Considering I've never heard of any of them before this episode I'd have to say "no big loss."

What's weird is how Katherine walked in on some random woman seemingly comforting Richard in the waiting room and immediately jumped to the conclusion there was hanky panky going on. It's a hospital waiting room for Pete's sake, all she did was have her hand on his shoulder. It's not like they were making out. I guess it would have helped if Richard hadn't been so defensive.

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3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Considering I've never heard of any of them before this episode I'd have to say "no big loss."

What's weird is how Katherine walked in on some random woman seemingly comforting Richard in the waiting room and immediately jumped to the conclusion there was hanky panky going on. It's a hospital waiting room for Pete's sake, all she did was have her hand on his shoulder. It's not like they were making out. I guess it would have helped if Richard hadn't been so defensive.

I think Richard being so defensive is exactly how she knew.  If he had looked up and smiled and said, "Katherine!  I'm so glad you were able to come!" and then gave her a hug and easily introduced Gemma to her, Katherine would not have thought about hanky panky.  It was Richard's guilty conscience that gave him away with yellow flags Katherine couldn't miss.

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On 11/8/2019 at 12:03 AM, Chas411 said:

I think the show have made it hard to root for Jackson with anyone. And Maggie sucks 90% of the time too. 

Jackson has been terrible since he dumped Stephanie at April's wedding. I don't feel sorry for Maggie though. Even if he wasn't her stepbrother, she could have easily learned enough from the hospital rumor mill to know that dating Jackson would be a bad idea. Then again if she's cool with DeLuca dating Meredith, why is she so bothered about Jackson dating Vic?

On 11/8/2019 at 1:20 PM, deaja said:

The concept of family is very convoluted on Grey's. I think they're going for a "you choose your family" thing, but other times they don't. For example, Maggie is Meredith's sister even though they weren't raised together and were well into adulthood when they met.  Amelia and Maggie are sisters because Maggie's half-sister who she never knew was married to Amelia's brother.  Even when they didn't seem to like each other, they had this almost "we need to work it out because we're family" vibe (with Meredith as well).  Richard never knew Maggie or even that he had a daughter, but they're family.  But when she dates his stepson, that's not family. 

Maggie embraced Amelia as being her sister way before she embraced Richard as being (sort of) her father. As mad as she was about Richard not telling her he was her father, she's always been less interested in the Webber side of her gene pool. 

Not sure why Maggie thought declaring that they weren't really family would convince Sabi and her dad that they should reconsider. If anything, having a newfound relative tell me that they don't really consider me to be family would make me less comfortable with them providing me medical care.  

Maggie had no respect for Sabi's preference, didn't take time to think about the consequences for Richard if she failed, and put her desire to demonstrate her greatness above all.  

Edited by RaeSpellman
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On 11/8/2019 at 3:56 AM, funnygirl said:

The stuff with Maggie and Sabi was very heavy-handed. They literally just met, but the overshare and rapid-fire "getting to know you" was too much; like they were trying to lay a significant foundation so that Sabi's death could hit harder. I prefer genuine storytelling over forced moments and connections. 

Yep, which is why I figured Sabi is a goner as soon as that happened. 

What really annoyed me with all the "Maggie is the bestest cardiothoracic surgeon EVER!!!1~" talk is that there's another cardiac surgeon in town who's also kind of awesome, not to mention way more experienced than Maggie. You know, the one that trained the legendary Cristina Yang. Yeah, I know she doesn't work at Pac North, but when has it ever been an issue on this show to hop from one hospital to another just like that?! Case in point: Maggie today. So, if Sabi didn't want Maggie operating on her and Richard still wanted the best possible care for her, he could have at least checked if she was available. But, I guess they're now pretending that Teddy is and always has been a trauma surgeon.

Owen was an ass, but not quite as big an ass I thought he'd be. What Amelia put him through was horrible, even with the brain tumor retcon, so I don't blame him for being upset. Of course, he had absolutely no right to project his feelings onto his patient. At least he came to his senses relatively quickly, thanks to Amelia. She continues to be great, but GIRL, what's with randomly visiting Owen at his workplace to drop a bomb on him like that and why did she think Meredith's daughter's toy would make it better. SMH. Those were shades of the old nutjob Amelia. We don't need more of her. 

While we're at Amelia and Owen, I do think it's nice she wants to keep in touch in with Leo, and it's good for Leo and Alison to have another person in their lives who cares about them and they can all totally be friends and have playdates for their children. However, they're not a family and none of them should be obliged to feel that way. Especially when there are other people like Teddy and Link involved, who also have a say in it and have every possible right to feel otherwise.

I still think Catherine is terrible and want Richard to dump her. 

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22 hours ago, Joana said:

I still think Catherine is terrible and want Richard to dump her. 

If not dump her, at least see less of her.  IINM, Debbie Allen has somewhat of a full plate behind the scenes at Grey's (I think she is a producer now, and will probably direct an episode or two), plus her recurring role as Hondo's mother on SWAT.  Maybe the whole Gemma storyline is a way for maybe Catherine to leave Richard and be out of town constantly at the other Fox hospitals.

On 11/8/2019 at 4:43 PM, Ohwell said:

While I could sympathize somewhat with Richard for having family members who resented his success, he lost me when he asked his brother--a grown ass, presumably working man--if he needed money for the fucking vending machine.  I didn't blame the brother for his reaction, and it made me wonder if Richard threw his success in his brother's and maybe other family members' faces.  I just think we didn't get the whole story and there was probably more to it.

Funny, my take on it was maybe he thought that his brother was only carrying credit/debit cards and didn't have actual cash on him, rather than not having any money at all. (some vending machines do take plastic, but seems to me that Pac Gen wouldn't have any of those).

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31 minutes ago, transitfan said:

Funny, my take on it was maybe he thought that his brother was only carrying credit/debit cards and didn't have actual cash on him, rather than not having any money at all. (some vending machines do take plastic, but seems to me that Pac Gen wouldn't have any of those).

Yeah, different interpretations, I guess, because if was simply a matter of whether the brother had cash or debit/credit cards, Richard could have just explained that the machine took only cash, or took only credit/debit cards.  Instead, he asked him if he had any money and when the brother got upset, Richard still didn't explain anything.  Also, there's a pompousness about Richard which led me to have that opinion about him.

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I've never disliked Maggie, but she's NOT a strong enough character to hold my interest for an entire episode.

I usually* like Jackson because he is pretty consistent about setting boundaries, which are sorely needed on this show.  His "I'm talking . . . to someone else" was a perfect example. 

*Except during this breakup.  There's a lot of manufactured anger on both sides.  She's single, so he shouldn't be jealous.  He's with someone new, so he should be happy.  Maggie's decided her true love is surgery, so she should also be un-jealous and happy.  I just don't understand how such a tepid relationship could produce so much animosity in the aftermath, especially since they've both moved on. 

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23 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Yeah, different interpretations, I guess, because if was simply a matter of whether the brother had cash or debit/credit cards, Richard could have just explained that the machine took only cash, or took only credit/debit cards. 

He explicitly asked if his brother needed cash so needing cash for the vending machines was also my take on what Richard was implying.  And yes Richard could have been more clear but it isn't like anybody was doing their best thinking under a less stressful situation Chris probably wouldn't have overreacted and Richard might have been more explicit.

 

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8 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

He explicitly asked if his brother needed cash so needing cash for the vending machines was also my take on what Richard was implying.  And yes Richard could have been more clear but it isn't like anybody was doing their best thinking under a less stressful situation Chris probably wouldn't have overreacted and Richard might have been more explicit.

 

I think that normally, when someone says they're going to the vending machine, no one asks them if they need cash.  The assumption is that the adult has cash (or a credit/debit card if that's what the machine takes).  If the adult doesn't have it, then he/she would say so.  So to me, it was weird for Richard to even ask the question.  

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49 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Richard could have been more clear but it isn't like anybody was doing their best thinking under a less stressful situation Chris probably wouldn't have overreacted and Richard might have been more explicit

Chris was overreacting to everything Richard was saying, I don’t think it would’ve mattered how Richard had phrased it.

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1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

I like Jackson when he’s doing doctor things. He’s been doing mostly relationships things.

That is a perfect description! Jackson is a great doctor and *terrible* at being a person. You can really tell that Catherine is his mother.

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20 hours ago, Dancing Queen said:

I've never disliked Maggie, but she's NOT a strong enough character to hold my interest for an entire episode.

I usually* like Jackson because he is pretty consistent about setting boundaries, which are sorely needed on this show.  His "I'm talking . . . to someone else" was a perfect example. 

*Except during this breakup.  There's a lot of manufactured anger on both sides.  She's single, so he shouldn't be jealous.  He's with someone new, so he should be happy.  Maggie's decided her true love is surgery, so she should also be un-jealous and happy.  I just don't understand how such a tepid relationship could produce so much animosity in the aftermath, especially since they've both moved on. 

Though Maggie is going overboard. Bringing up the topic of Vic's dead fiancé, again, while judging their relationship. Maggie needs to butt out. His relationship with Vic is none of her business.  If she meant the whole "I don't like you, you don't like me", then go a take a hike and stop judging Jackson's relationship with Vic. You don't see Jackson ridiculing her for being lonely and single.

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On 11/9/2019 at 11:04 AM, Joana said:

What really annoyed me with all the "Maggie is the bestest cardiothoracic surgeon EVER!!!1~" talk is that there's another cardiac surgeon in town who's also kind of awesome, not to mention way more experienced than Maggie. You know, the one that trained the legendary Cristina Yang. Yeah, I know she doesn't work at Pac North, but when has it ever been an issue on this show to hop from one hospital to another just like that?! Case in point: Maggie today. So, if Sabi didn't want Maggie operating on her and Richard still wanted the best possible care for her, he could have at least checked if she was available. But, I guess they're now pretending that Teddy is and always has been a trauma surgeon.

My thoughts exactly!!! All this talk of Maggie being the only one that can do this surgery and nobody's as good as her. Teddy is not too shabby herself. If Richard wanted a good substitute for Maggie, Teddy should have been his first call. Not the replacement surgeon who's not as good.

And as Sabi's death proved, it doesn't matter if you're the best in the field. A doctor should not operate on a family member. And once again, the show had Maggie loosely refer to it as a guideline. It's actually in the AMA Code of Ethics. When Sabi started going south, Maggie went from being a professional doctor to an emotional wreck, to the point where Alex had make her stop. And now, not only did she lose her cousin, she's going to have to deal with the fact that she died during her surgery.

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12 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

My thoughts exactly!!! All this talk of Maggie being the only one that can do this surgery and nobody's as good as her. Teddy is not too shabby herself. If Richard wanted a good substitute for Maggie, Teddy should have been his first call. Not the replacement surgeon who's not as good.

And as Sabi's death proved, it doesn't matter if you're the best in the field. A doctor should not operate on a family member. And once again, the show had Maggie loosely refer to it as a guideline. It's actually in the AMA Code of Ethics. When Sabi started going south, Maggie went from being a professional doctor to an emotional wreck, to the point where Alex had make her stop. And now, not only did she lose her cousin, she's going to have to deal with the fact that she died during her surgery.

The third problem is, Teddy would have seen the same problem and the other idiot doctor probably would have said: "You didn't ask, the other doctor ALWAYS asks." Teddy would have then ripped him a new one. Either way, it turned into a mess. Pus, as Sabi also said: "I shouldnt' have waited." Hell, I'm surprise if she got scan like she did the doctor didn't go: "Holy crap! This needs to be operated on immediately." Oh no, apparently the doctor who did her original scan went: "Well, you didn't ask how bad it was, so I didn't say anything." 

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 5:13 PM, readster said:

The third problem is, Teddy would have seen the same problem and the other idiot doctor probably would have said: "You didn't ask, the other doctor ALWAYS asks." Teddy would have then ripped him a new one. Either way, it turned into a mess. Pus, as Sabi also said: "I shouldnt' have waited." Hell, I'm surprise if she got scan like she did the doctor didn't go: "Holy crap! This needs to be operated on immediately." Oh no, apparently the doctor who did her original scan went: "Well, you didn't ask how bad it was, so I didn't say anything." 

But the reality is the reason Maggie operated on Sabi was because she crashed while waiting for the other doctor.  Was there really any choice at that moment?  And would you trust a doctor from that hospital over a doctor from Grey Sloane, especially if you were Richard?  Yes, Maggie was her usual arrogant pain in the butt self but apparently she is a highly gifted surgeon.  This might take her down a notch or two and let her be more of a human and less of a robot programmed to over succeed.

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8 hours ago, RoxiP said:

But the reality is the reason Maggie operated on Sabi was because she crashed while waiting for the other doctor.  Was there really any choice at that moment?  And would you trust a doctor from that hospital over a doctor from Grey Sloane, especially if you were Richard?  Yes, Maggie was her usual arrogant pain in the butt self but apparently she is a highly gifted surgeon.  This might take her down a notch or two and let her be more of a human and less of a robot programmed to over succeed.

Problem is, Maggie is always: "Oh, woe is me, I'm this great surgeon, but everyone is out to get me." Or "I want to have a relationship, but I have to ALWAYS find a problem and my other half is ALWAYS trying to find a way for me to hate them." Instead of moving on, she then berates them or then complains with: "How dare they move on in life without, me. wahhh!"

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9 hours ago, RoxiP said:

But the reality is the reason Maggie operated on Sabi was because she crashed while waiting for the other doctor.  Was there really any choice at that moment?  And would you trust a doctor from that hospital over a doctor from Grey Sloane, especially if you were Richard?  Yes, Maggie was her usual arrogant pain in the butt self but apparently she is a highly gifted surgeon.  This might take her down a notch or two and let her be more of a human and less of a robot programmed to over succeed.

While I wouldn't want to seek medical treatment at a poorly regarded hospital, talented doctors can work at under-resourced hospitals and highly regarded doctors may not always provide their doctors with the best care. Alex and Richard are supposedly among the best in their field. They work at Pac North.

Theoretically, everyone at Grey Sloan is superior. However, over the years the staff at Grey Sloan violate HIPAA, commit insurance fraud, tamper with research trials, begin relationships with deathly ill patients, etc.

Richard was open to Sabi. She's an adult. A better choice might have been for her to contact Richard. They could have arranged for him to go home, consult, and help her find adequate care at a hospital near her.

I also found it ridiculous for Maggie to expect Richard to support her in front of his estranged family when she barely/rarely considers him family.

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On 11/8/2019 at 5:58 PM, NUguy514 said:

As soon as "Sabi" (ugh) graced our collective presence with her twittering, annoying sunniness and showed Maggie and Richard her heart tumor, did any of us doubt for a second that she was toast?

Yep, she was as toasty as Goose in Top Gun once the wife and cute kid showed up!

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Maggie: Part of being the best is knowing when not to operate. You shouldn't operate on family, period. I found her anger at Richard absurd. The best would call Teddy up to do the operation. She's pretty darn good too.

It sounded like Richard didn't notify the other dr that Sabi was crashing since he said he wanted Maggie to operate. That's stupid.

I loved Alex telling Maggie to be an adult. 

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