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S3 E5: First Case, Second Base

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Dr. Andrews questions whether Shaun is really ready for his first surgery; Dr. Brown and Dr. Reznick have a patient whose diagnosis has them doubting his story.

Please note this episode is airing in Canada a day before it airs in the United States. If you are in the USA and don’t wish to be spoiled, proceed with caution. 

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Wow. A lot of...weird stuff happened in this episode. Well, maybe more accurate is stuff that I don't think I was really fond of. But overall, I do think the episode was fairly decent.

The Carly/Shaun stuff was something that I was fascinated by, but something that I'm not so sure if I liked? Particularly, the part where Carly decided to get Shaun to touch her breast right before his lead surgery. I mean...girl, time and place. Luckily for us, it didn't go wrong and Shaun got to experience some intimate pleasure. I do like that they showed him as having liked it. I do still like Carly and hope that she's finally finding some compromise with Shaun. 

The Debbie/Glassman gun debate was something I wasn't loving much. At least Debbie got to tell Glassman off about him trying to find reasons for her wanting a gun. I do get Glassman's stance. I don't think I'd feel comfortable with a gun in my home and that should have been discussed at some point, but she DOES have the right to carry a firearm as long as she's responsible about it, and she seems responsible...so...

I'm so glad Morgan got to tell off Claire for her attitude. She lost her mother, yes, but keeping it a secret and then acting erratically isn't helping things. 

I loved Park in this episode. He really stepped it up several times and possibly showed his potential in being the future Chief. He's a great leader. He also took over Melendez's typical role with Shaun. Speaking of Melendez, the guy has barely had more than a couple of scenes so far each episode. Besides his stuff with Lim, he hasn't had much to do. What gives?

I did laugh at Lim telling Andrews off when he went off on the whole "Shaun shouldn't be a surgeon" stuff that we JUST went through last season. I like how Lim shut that down by reminding Andrews that they all work as a team. I didn't mind Lim's approach to handing Shaun his first lead surgery, even if it ended up not being his official lead surgery.

Yes, perhaps Lim WAS babying him a little bit. But she's right; you can't throw someone like Shaun into the deep end. Sometimes, adjustments DO need to be made with people with disabilities, and Shaun needed a little bit of a more leading and gentle approach, something that Lim and Park both managed to do. And Park isn't even an attending!

I'm glad Park got his first lead surgery because of how he handled things with Shaun. 

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The gun debate was uncomfortable. I don’t particularly like guns but as long as Debbie keeps it safe, Glassman needs to let this go.

lim is right that Shaun will need more support than most people, but I can also see Andrews point. 

I want to like Carly but something about her rubs me the wrong way. And the business of have Shaun touch her breast right before a surgery was weird

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10 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I want to like Carly but something about her rubs me the wrong way. And the business of have Shaun touch her breast right before a surgery was weird

This episode was the first time I became wary of her. I'm glad it worked out, but I think that it's clear that she may not be someone that's compatible with Shaun. That's not a bad thing, but it seems like this will be a short term relationship meant to grow both Shaun and Carly as people, as they deal with each other's quirks and flaws as a couple. 

I think Carly's really figuring out that she can't do the normal couple activities with Shaun, and Shaun is realizing that he can't have everything his way. They're realizing that they need to be compromising constantly and it's only a matter of time when one of them realizes that they can't do it anymore. 

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Oh, Shaun. Having his brother pop up as he did throughout was a touching surprise, and I loved how his presence, as it were, helped Shaun focus and calm down. I'm glad that his freakout wasn't due to him suddenly feeling incapable of doing the surgery or anything like that, but rather because he came up with another solution and just got way overexcited about it. I liked Lim's little reminder to Marcus at the end, too, though I do understand the concern about him just abruptly up and leaving like that. But hopefully that was just a one time thing. I appreciate how he handled stepping back from leading the surgery in the end, and I'm glad that he was still able to help out in his own way. 

I also liked his reaction to everything with Carly. "You have no lumps." Hee :D. One of the many pluses to dating a doctor :p. I agree with the others that Carly trying that with him right in the hospital like that was an odd choice, but maybe it was her way of trying to help him focus or something? I dunno. 

As for everything with Glassman and Debbie, I am completely on Glassman's side in this debate, and learning that a significant other owned a gun would be, to continue the theme with them from the last episode, something I'd very much want to know about before I married them (though, honestly, personally speaking, if I found out somebody owned a gun, that would be a no go for me regarding a date/relationship with them in the first place, but anyway). Still, so long as Debbie's responsible with her gun, which, as others noted here, looks to be the case, if they can work out a compromise about it, then good. I can't help wondering now, though, if that gun will come into play in a storyline down the line or something. 

And Claire. Honey. I totally sympathize with her not wanting to make a big thing about her mom's death with everyone, and wanting to avoid the platitudes and whatnot, but Morgan's advice is valid and I really hope Claire can either continue talking about this with Morgan, or find somebody else she trusts to discuss all of this with. Or if she's still not fully ready to discuss it, then hopefully she can find another healthy way to express her feelings about it. She likes to play guitar, so hell, maybe she could write a song or something. 

I'm glad that things turned out well with that couple in the end. I had a feeling that it wasn't going to be as straightforward as Claire was thinking. 

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47 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As for everything with Glassman and Debbie, I am completely on Glassman's side in this debate, and learning that a significant other owned a gun would be, to continue the theme with them from the last episode, something I'd very much want to know about before I married them (though, honestly, personally speaking, if I found out somebody owned a gun, that would be a no go for me regarding a date/relationship with them in the first place, but anyway).

That would be an argument for actually getting to know a person before marrying them. If Glassman and Debbie had dated for awhile, he probably would have learned she owned a gun and could have made that choice. But since they jumped right into marriage it isn't really fair to expect her to get rid of it just because he doesn't like it. It's not really a compromise thing. You either have a gun in your house or not. Park keeping his at a gun range seems the closest thing.

About Claire and Morgan's patient. Didn't this show already have a patient with auto brewery syndrome? I remember awhile ago two medical shows had the same plot about that disease and I swear one of them was this show. But there are a lot of hospital shows on right now.

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Okay, I am beginning to have a problem with this show. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't believe Shaun would still be learning this much in his residency. The show should have started with Shaun in school. He would have interacted with patients during his rounds. His communication skills would have already be worked on. I know he would still be progressing, but this show sometimes makes it seem like he never stepped foot inside a hospital sometimes. I believe Shaun is perfectly capable of becoming a surgeon, but it doesnt feel like he is ready for this level yet.

As to the gun debate, that was just stupid. The gun is secured and there are no children in the house, so I don't understand what his problem was. It was in her nightstand and he never had to mess with it. She is obviously responsible and sane, and it was a reasonable weapon for self-defense. She obviously doesn't carry it on her person all the time because he would have known about it already. It seems like she keeps it in her car or in her home - perfectly reasonable places for self defense. I don't like guns and don't handle them, but I wouldn't lose my mind if my boyfriend did, unless I felt he lacked responsibility or he was screaming about the government coming to get us. It just seemed very bizarre.

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I don't get why Glassman is supposed to compromise and Debbie isn't. She didn't give half a shit about how he felt about it, and to me that's a red flag in any relationship. He tried to understand her point of view, he tried to talk about it, he grappled with the issue. She resented that it was an issue at all. That right there makes her at fault. It's not how relationships between equals happen, and it's a really big sign to me that she doesn't deserve his trust.

Edited by possibilities
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So, now it is Shaun's turn to head a surgery!  And he... well, he ends up not completing it, but only because he realizes that there is a way to have his patient not have to spend the rest of her life eating from a tube, but doesn't have the experience to perform it himself, and has to have Andrews do it himself.  So, in short, Shaun puts the need of the patient over his own goals, which is respectable.  I'm glad everything worked out, but I do think his initial freakout once he first came to the realization is a sign that it still won't be an easy journey for him.  There will come a point where he won't have someone like Lim or Park around who are able to communicate with him effectively, so he is really going to have to work at being able to avoid something like that going forward.

At least Park was able to head a surgery and seemed to pass with flying colors.  That just leaves Reznick and Shaun now.  Right now, I kind of suspect Reznick will be the one to get the next shot.  Also, I suspect that at least one of the surgeries is going to go majorly south, so I would be worried if I was those two!

Claire and Reznick's case was really more about them showing how Claire has changed over her mother's death.  Definitely is no longer the more optimistic and caring resident anymore, and seems to be more sullen and automatically assumes the worst now.  Not a good change.  I really hope she addresses her issues soon, or this is going to be rough for her going forward.

While I'm glad Shaun ended up enjoying checking to see if Carly "had any lumps", I do question the timing of it and I could easily see how it could have actually threw him off going into the surgery.  Still, I enjoy the trials and tribulations of Shaun learning the art of dating.  Now he's prepared to move to the next breast!

The Glassman/Debbie drama definitely stems from them marrying so quickly and still not knowing much about one another.  While I probably side more with Glassman when it comes to the almighty gun debate, I do think he was foolish to think she was going to just get rid of her gun like that, and needs to accept that is likely not going to change.  I did like her claiming that her wanting to own a gun has nothing to do with any past experiences, because that usually always ends up being the case, when television shows do a "woman owns a gun" storyline.

Lim was the best this episode.  Followed by Park.

Looks like the next episode won't be till another two weeks.  Is something important happening next Monday?

Edited by thuganomics85
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30 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also, I suspect that at least one of the surgeries is going to go majorly south, so I would be worried if I was those two!

I was thinking about that, too! Definitely bracing for some bumpy times ahead on this show. 

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Looks like the next episode won't be till another two weeks.  Is something important happening next Monday?

I looked ahead in my guide to next Monday and I didn't see anything of note airing in place of this show. Just listed a repeat.

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That was an odd episode. Wasn't auto-brewery syndrome already done on this show? Like in the first season?

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8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't get why Glassman is supposed to compromise and Debbie isn't. She didn't give half a shit about how he felt about it, and to me that's a red flag in any relationship. He tried to understand her point of view, he tried to talk about it, he grappled with the issue. She resented that it was an issue at all. That right there makes her at fault. It's not how relationships between equals happen, and it's a really big sign to me that she doesn't deserve his trust.

I think it's a hard issue to compromise on, as it's been mentioned. What IS a compromise with the issue of gun ownership? Either you have the gun in the house or you don't. The only potential compromise is not keeping the gun in the bedroom, but, unlike Shaun and Carly's issues thus far, there's not a whole lot they can do about compromising on this issue. Glassman didn't want the gun in the home. Debbie wanted to keep her gun. There was no winning here. Even though Glassman tried a couple of ways to get her to give up the gun and almost threatened a divorce/annulment (they haven't been married that long) because he was that adamant on the gun ownership issue, I didn't like HOW they concluded the storyline. I think there could have been a better ending, even if Glassman had to accept the gun in his home. 

But, again, this DOES go toward the idea that Glassman and Debbie married too quickly and don't know each other that well. Glassman should have known about Debbie owning a gun before marriage. It just means that these two will have a bit of a difficult first year because they completely skipped some steps and went right into marriage after a short dating period. 

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That was Dylan Kingwell from the first season of Good Doctor as the brother? He gotten so tall! He was practically close to Freddie's height. I had to do a double take because he seems to tower over everyone in that room. I wish him luck on his acting career . He seems like a good person to me.

Edited by Robert Lynch
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I'm sure that this will be unpopular, but Shawn's reaction DID endanger the patient....as Andrews said, "we have a patient open on the table".  I know that there were  all kinds of nerves and emotions, but Shawn's reaction was just unacceptable. I get that they are supposed to make reasonable accommodations, but not when it affects patient care (i.e. his true ability to do his job), and here his freak out and lack of communication skills did put the patient in jeopardy. I know, I know, it all worked out and Shawn was right, but he has to find a way to control his emotions and communicate in a better and more productive way since he cant count on always having Lim or Park there to hold his hand. talk him through it.I know he really, really wants to be a surgeon, but it may not be the right thing for the patients, let alone the hospital.

And Carly.....not the best timing on getting him to feel you up!

Edited by AriAu
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10 hours ago, Manda317 said:

The show should have started with Shaun in school.

I agree, have thought this for a while.  Expected they would at least have an occasional flashback to school, to show how much progress he has made.

My station preempted this for football. The schedule said it would be on in the wee hours, but they lied.  I read a review at least.  Last time I tried to watch an episode on the ABC web site, it was not available until 8 days after airing, but I may try.

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I really need them to move Claire along on this cynical, self destructive thing.  It doesn't sit well on the character.  But I did see a glimpse of the old Claire at the end when the wife's faith proved to be true.  So maybe we'll get her back sooner rather than later.

I think it is hysterical that Shaun doesn't like to hold hands, but dude sure likes to hold a boob!  LOL.

And I agree with the unpopular stance that Shaun's actions did put the patient in danger. It turned out well, but honestly the show needs to address the consequences for this a bit better make some sort of effort to show Shaun through to overcome stuff like this.

The gun debate  is frustrating because while I can understand Glassman's stance, I don't think the show did a good job of really explaining Debbie's.  My take away is that she just wants to own a gun.  She tried to make it about domestic abuse and then not being able to walk to her car at night.  Ok, but then neither of those things applied to her, so what was it?  She just seems intransigent on the whole thing.  Glassman was telling her why it was important for there NOT to be a gun in the house from his perspective and trying to get at why it was so important to her to have one.  Maybe that could have been the start of some sort of understanding, but she just seemed insulted. This fundamental disagreement feels like just the tip of the iceberg with these two.  They really should not have gotten married so quickly.

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I definitely understand Glassman's point of view about having a gun in the house, but he was still a d!ck about it.  Which he has been less of, lately, than he had been in the first two seasons.

I like Lim's philosophy about teamwork in the OR.  Not sure how much that attitude would be accepted in a real life hospital, but it sounds good here.

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I also liked his reaction to everything with Carly. "You have no lumps."

Signs of health are a turn on  🙂

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First Case; Second Base:  just seeing title.  LOL.  Love it!

I love when Glassman and Shawn's conversations seem to have went nowhere and then you see how it was helpful to Glassman later.  Like when Glassman puts his hand on Debbie's breast and says the gun is ok.   Hahaha!

I liked seeing Shawn and Carly's relationship moving forward, but like someone else said not sure I loved it.  It was interesting and loved the excitement Shawn showed on his face with new discoveries, but Leah or Clair really feel like better matches for Shawn to me.  Carly and Shawn are too clinical.

I loved Lim acted with Shawn.  I think she just has the right idea and will do well for both Shawn and the Hospital in developing him.  Interesting to see Andrews doubting if Shawn can be a surgeon (after all he did for him!!).  I think Andrews needs to get promoted, maybe he becomes President again as Glassman retires.

Where is Melendez?  We need to see more of him.

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I do think that Shawn endangered the patient by not being able to effectively communicate, in a timely manner, that there were surgical options that would have a better outcome for the patient.

If I were Glassman, I would gather a collection of all the times (and there are many) when the responsible gun owner mistakenly shot a member of their own family. One issue is how the gun is stored, in this case it was in a locked gun safe, so that is a non factor. However, the other issue is the potential to be mistakenly shot. None of the people who shot their own loved ones would have ever thought they would do such a thing.

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You know I'm kind of confused by Carly and her actions.  Seeing that she has a family member with autism, I expected her to be more understanding instead of forcing things on Shaun. If he doesn't like holding hands, then don't force him and you certainly don't make someone feel you up!

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I felt icky with the Carly/Shaun scene. I know this relationship eventually has to have a sexual aspect, but Shaun is portrayed as childlike and innocent and it just felt wrong, to me. This is definitely a biased and stereotypical opinion and I apologize for any potential offense, but I'd rather Shaun begin a sexual relationship with someone on the same experience and maturity level as he is. In my mind, that means another person on the spectrum or potentially someone with a social anxiety disorder that puts them on the same footing. This relationship creates an unequal power dynamic and it doesn't feel entirely moral.

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21 minutes ago, marcee said:

I felt icky with the Carly/Shaun scene. I know this relationship eventually has to have a sexual aspect, but Shaun is portrayed as childlike and innocent and it just felt wrong, to me. This is definitely a biased and stereotypical opinion and I apologize for any potential offense, but I'd rather Shaun begin a sexual relationship with someone on the same experience and maturity level as he is. In my mind, that means another person on the spectrum or potentially someone with a social anxiety disorder that puts them on the same footing. This relationship creates an unequal power dynamic and it doesn't feel entirely moral.

Thank you for articulating so well what I have been feeling watching Shaun and Carly's relationship progress. Watching his excitement copping a feel felt all kinds of wrong to me; he was acting like a 13 year old would, imo. I understand he's not had much experience dating but he does come off as very childlike and innocent, as you said. I don't know much about autism and it's varying degrees but would it be realistic that someone like Shaun be attracted to someone like Carly? And vice-versa? I realize there's a lid for every pot but I'm just not buying that someone like Carly would be interested in Shaun in a romantic way.  I hope that does not come off as offensive.

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4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think it's a hard issue to compromise on, as it's been mentioned.

But when there are conflicts, both partners need to hear the other out, consider the situation, and discuss it respectfully, and not just be dismissive of the other. Even if at the end of the day one will get their way and the other won't, it's important to be respectful and not just deride the other for their concerns.

Shaun and Carly may eventually decide they are not compatible, but they try. Debbie didn't try. That is what I'm objecting to.

If Glassman had laughed at Debbie and told her that he didn't care how she felt about having a gun around, he was not interested in her reasons and she had to get rid of it, he would have been a dick. But she essentially did exactly that to him, and I that bothered me a lot. Whether or not they ultimately agree to have the gun in the house or not, her reaction to his discomfort was incredibly disrespectful and bodes ill for how she views him in general, or would approach other conflicts that might arise.

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Awww I loved seeing Shaun's brother helping him, that was really sweet. I am glad that things turned out well, but the surgery did show that Shaun has a lot of work to do still. Its great that he was able to help the chef so that she could still eat, but he did also leave in the middle of the surgery with her still open on the table, so there are still issues to be worked out. 

I hope that Claire is honest with everyone soon about her mom, maybe take some leave, she is suffering so terribly and her grief is starting to cloud her judgement. Like with the surgery she froze on for a second last week, her head isnt fully in the game now, and that could lead to even worse problems. Morgan is SO not used to playing good cop when she is working with Claire. Glad that the husband was alright and that he wasnt drinking again. I mean, Claire is right that normally its going to be a relapse and not some kind of medical fluke, but you still have to keep your mind open.

Carly and Shaun are still cute and are still clearly figuring each other out, and I am glad that Shaun was honest with her about touch. Though, damn girl, maybe dont grab his hand and stick it on your breast right before surgery?! Time and place! Still, it was cute how much Shaun was into it! I also like Leah a lot more now, she works much better as Shaun's roommate/pal than possible manic pixie love interest. 

Park was great this week, and I thought it was sweet when Shaun told him how happy he was that he got to lead a surgery, same here he definitely earned it. Lim was great too, loved her talk with Shaun outside, I think she is really getting the hang out this job. 

Glassman and Debbie's gun debate is an alright idea, as they get used to each other, but I felt like we didnt really any actual debate between them. Debbie says she wants her gun, Glassman tries to get her to give it up, they didnt seem to give any real reasons for why this was important to either of them. I mean, they kind did, Glassman telling his story about the kid shooting the other kid (which sure is a big coincidence, I was sure he made it up) and Debbie talking about being a woman and it giving her confidence, but if they wanted to go into this debate, I really needed to know why exactly this was such a big deal for both of them, and THEN try to find a compromise. I did like when Glassman expected her to have some kind of tragic backstory as to why she has a gun (which TV does all the time when people, especially women, want guns) and she said that it was offensive that he would think she needed to be traumatized to make what he sees as a dumb choice.

Edited by tennisgurl
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2 hours ago, rmontro said:

I like Lim's philosophy about teamwork in the OR.  Not sure how much that attitude would be accepted in a real life hospital, but it sounds good here.

Me, too. I liked her debate with Andrews. Both made excellent points. I couldn't help but admire Park, Lim, and Andrews.

On the other hand, I've never understood what Carly gets from her relationship with Shaun, and now I think she's just plain old creepy. 

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I might be wrong but: After they fixed the legs of the guy that fell off the roof, wasn't he bleeding from his side. Did they explain why he was bleeding from his side and where the blood was coming from. If it was from the tumor, shouldn't they have found the tumor right away. That whole scenario seemed a little off. It would have been better if the husband still appeared drunk and they thought the wife was sneaking him booze into the hospital.

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Last season they did a show about a married couple who both had autism.  The wife was hospitalized and she asked if her husband could have sex with her to calm her down or something like that.  Anyhoo, it was very "clinical" is the word I keep hearing.  If Shaun was paired with someone with autism similar to his, that's all it would be is clinical.

'Carly brings a realistic approach to a difficult situation.  It's almost like a little person falling in love with an average height person - if you love each other enough, you'll find a way to make it work.  Carly has strong emotional and physical feelings for Shaun.  Shaun really doesn't know or understand what he is feeling.  I think the Carly character is testing the waters to see if they can have a physical relationship.

It appears that the kissing doesn't get Shaun worked up like it does Carly.  It's almost as if Shaun is just going through the motions to keep her as a "girlfriend".  He just enjoys being in her company.  

Shaun would be the same way with Claire or any other non-autistic woman.  The woman would eventually want a FULL relationship with Shaun.  From my perspective, Shaun is not emotionally capable of doing that - with anyone.  Maybe he needs to just stick with women friends instead of a girlfriend.  I don't see how the writers can change his character into something he clearly is not and that is a man who desires a woman because he loves her and wants their relationship to deepen by adding in the physical factor.  I just don't see how it could happen unless he got a big bump on the head and it jumbled up his wiring.

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 I see I am not alone in feeling that Shaun’s and Carly’s relationship is starting to make me uncomfortable.  I know they are trying to work through their differences, but she is rather pushy, and maybe that is what Shaun needs, but it is awkward to watch.  As much as I have complained about Leah, it seems she would be more compatible with him.  I’m not suggesting that I would like to see that happen, but I do think, she understands him more than Carly does.  Good Doctor Fan said their relationship seemed too clinical, and I can see this.  It almost feels like they are both performing an experiment rather than just relating to each other. 

I appreciate the developing friendship between Claire and Morgan.  Morgan is blunt and to the point while Claire is more subdued, but they play well off of each other.  However, I think her mom’s death is something she could definitely share with Shaun.  I can’t see him offering platitudes. 

Interesting observation about Debbie's gun coming into play down the road @Annber03.  Kind of like Chekov's gun?

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16 minutes ago, Fable said:

I appreciate the developing friendship between Claire and Morgan.  Morgan is blunt and to the point while Claire is more subdued, but they play well off of each other.  However, I think her mom’s death is something she could definitely share with Shaun.  I can’t see him offering platitudes. 

Yes! It'd be very interesting to have them comparing how Shaun dealt with the loss of his brother to how Claire is dealing with the loss of her mom. I think he could provide some good advice and support for her on that level.

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Interesting observation about Debbie's gun coming into play down the road @Annber03.  Kind of like Chekov's gun?

That's the exact term I had in mind :D. 

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2 hours ago, Evagirl said:

Last season they did a show about a married couple who both had autism.  The wife was hospitalized and she asked if her husband could have sex with her to calm her down or something like that.  Anyhoo, it was very "clinical" is the word I keep hearing.  If Shaun was paired with someone with autism similar to his, that's all it would be is clinical.

'Carly brings a realistic approach to a difficult situation.  It's almost like a little person falling in love with an average height person - if you love each other enough, you'll find a way to make it work.  Carly has strong emotional and physical feelings for Shaun.  Shaun really doesn't know or understand what he is feeling.  I think the Carly character is testing the waters to see if they can have a physical relationship.

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It appears that the kissing doesn't get Shaun worked up like it does Carly.  It's almost as if Shaun is just going through the motions to keep her as a "girlfriend".  He just enjoys being in her company.  

I disagree with this.  I think all signs point to Shaun wanting a physical relationship and enjoying physical aspects of a relationship.  But he has issues that make this very difficult.  I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.  But I agree with those that said it feels icky and hope it starts to feel more normal.  

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 I see I am not alone in feeling that Shaun’s and Carly’s relationship is starting to make me uncomfortable.  I know they are trying to work through their differences, but she is rather pushy, and maybe that is what Shaun needs, but it is awkward to watch.  As much as I have complained about Leah, it seems she would be more compatible with him.  I’m not suggesting that I would like to see that happen, but I do think, she understands him more than Carly does.  Good Doctor Fan said their relationship seemed too clinical, and I can see this.  It almost feels like they are both performing an experiment rather than just relating to each other. 

I think Carly is good for him. She understands his condition and probably has done some reading on how best to have a relationship, both physical and emotional, with someone on the spectrum, She clearly has the patience to be part of such a relationship....just look at how she talked to him after their first date. I get that she is pushing the physical a little more than appears comfortable to the viewer, but I think that is what they are showing us.....helping us feel some aspect of what Shawn is feeling.

And, to be clear, a physical relationship with Lea would have been an unmitigated disaster. She would show none of this patience or understanding and really, really been all about her.

That being said, I have no idea why Carly felt that 45 minutes before his first solo surgery was a good time to introduce more physical contact, let alone sexual. 

And I do need to point out that, while  I know NOTHING about the sexual aspects of people with autism, I am sure there must be a protocol or recognized approach because they are adults with normal human urges and I have a hunch the show has a consultant who is leading them thru this.

Edited by AriAu
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Weighing in here. Carly and Sean do squick me out a bit. He just seems so immature and young emotionally that the whole situation does read as unequal. No offense to Sean but why she is attracted to him is a mystery to me. 
 

I own a gun and I find the hysteria some people associate with it fascinating. Responsible gun ownership is just that, responsible. I hate when people (like Glassman) try to give you stories about a guy that accidentally shot his friend/neighbor/wife. People also accidentally run people over with their cars or accidentally burn their houses down with defective crock pots, shit happens. I realize everyone is entitled to their opinions but Glassman was the dummie that married someone without really knowing her. And I’m sorry but if he doesn’t know anything about guns he should NEVER have been handling it in that last scene.

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23 minutes ago, sadie said:

Weighing in here. Carly and Sean do squick me out a bit. He just seems so immature and young emotionally that the whole situation does read as unequal. No offense to Sean but why she is attracted to him is a mystery to me. 

I think part of the issue might just be that Freddie Highmore has one of those faces where he just looks very youthful no matter what.  And even more than that,  Shaun just reads as young.  I don't think people would have as much of an issue if Carly were played by the actress to plays Lea because she looks youngish as well.

Jasika Nicole just looks older and has a more womanly vibe than someone who looks as young as Highmore should be with.  Also IRL she's is actually older than he is.

But in the grand scheme of things, Shaun is dating Carly. It is a romantic relationship not a platonic one so on some level that must mean Shaun is aware of and ready to pursue dating and sexuality.  And while he may be moving slowly and thinks eating popcorn and watching movies is enough for now, eventually if he is going to go that route, whatever woman he is dating, not just Carly, would need to make him confront that aspect of their relationship. 

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9 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

That was Dylan Kingwell from the first season of Good Doctor as the brother? He gotten so tall! He was practically close to Freddie's height. I had to do a double take because he seems to tower over everyone in that room. I wish him luck on his acting career . He seems like a good person to me.

I think it was him, because I was thrown off by how Shaun's brother looked like he had grown so much since he died.

9 hours ago, AriAu said:

I'm sure that this will be unpopular, but Shawn's reaction DID endanger the patient....as Andrews said, "we have a patient open on the table".  I know that there were  all kinds of nerves and emotions, but Shawn's reaction was just unacceptable. I get that they are supposed to make reasonable accommodations, but not when it affects patient care (i.e. his true ability to do his job), and here his freak out and lack of communication skills did put the patient in jeopardy.

I agree. Shaun needs to be able to stay calm if unexpected things happen during surgery. What if he was a lead surgeon and there were no other doctors there to step in? 

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18 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't get why Glassman is supposed to compromise and Debbie isn't. She didn't give half a shit about how he felt about it, and to me that's a red flag in any relationship. He tried to understand her point of view, he tried to talk about it, he grappled with the issue. She resented that it was an issue at all. That right there makes her at fault. It's not how relationships between equals happen, and it's a really big sign to me that she doesn't deserve his trust.

The moment where Glassman really lost me was when he referred to it as "my house." Not anymore, Glassy. I am about as anti gun as you can get so I sympathize with his motivation, but not with his approach. 

I'm so annoyed that, in the third season of this show, we are finding out for the first time that Shaun has a coping technique for stress that he understands and can tap into when necessary. The blowing out the candle thing would have been useful a hundred times over already. Why did the writers not include this from day one?

Also, where is Melendez? Can he please have a story?

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2 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I'm so annoyed that, in the third season of this show, we are finding out for the first time that Shaun has a coping technique for stress that he understands and can tap into when necessary. The blowing out the candle thing would have been useful a hundred times over already. Why did the writers not include this from day one?

I was wondering about that, too. Maybe he felt he didn't need it during the days when he carried the toy scalpel, but now that he's not carrying that around anymore, he needed to remind himself of that other technique? 

Also, regarding Glassman, I meant to add last night that I liked his little talk with Shaun before the surgery. It was a nice reminder of the early days of the relationship. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 10:49 AM, Lady Calypso said:

This episode was the first time I became wary of her. I'm glad it worked out, but I think that it's clear that she may not be someone that's compatible with Shaun. That's not a bad thing, but it seems like this will be a short term relationship meant to grow both Shaun and Carly as people, as they deal with each other's quirks and flaws as a couple. 

I think Carly's really figuring out that she can't do the normal couple activities with Shaun, and Shaun is realizing that he can't have everything his way. They're realizing that they need to be compromising constantly and it's only a matter of time when one of them realizes that they can't do it anymore. 

I’m not wild about Shaun and Carly either.  Sheldon and Amy on Big Bang Theory seemed right- same level of intimacy experience, etc.  This just feels off.  A pairing of Shaun and Claire would have felt better than this .  I would pair Carly with the Asian doc.  

Loved seeing Dylan Kingwell return.  Very good young actor.

i thought for sure the gun was going to go off when Glassy was fooling around with it at the end.

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On 10/20/2019 at 8:20 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Particularly, the part where Carly decided to get Shaun to touch her breast right before his lead surgery.

I found that absolutely repulsive, and more so when he asked the senior doctor if he also pawed at his new wife. Believe it or not, women are not just blobs of fat with nipples.

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7 hours ago, sadie said:

Weighing in here. Carly and Sean do squick me out a bit. He just seems so immature and young emotionally that the whole situation does read as unequal. No offense to Sean but why she is attracted to him is a mystery to me. 
 

I own a gun and I find the hysteria some people associate with it fascinating. Responsible gun ownership is just that, responsible. I hate when people (like Glassman) try to give you stories about a guy that accidentally shot his friend/neighbor/wife. People also accidentally run people over with their cars or accidentally burn their houses down with defective crock pots, shit happens. I realize everyone is entitled to their opinions but Glassman was the dummie that married someone without really knowing her. And I’m sorry but if he doesn’t know anything about guns he should NEVER have been handling it in that last scene.

I agree with everything you said, but I think this is a writing problem. It feels like Shaun has regressed to me. In the first season, I thought Glassman was out of line for pushing Shaun so hard to get a life coach. I saw the benefit, and I thought there were norms Shaun needed help with, but he was functional. Shaun felt like an adult that sometimes went into sensory overload and didnt understand some norms that we all pick up throughout our lives. He was competent. It still seemed like he should have already developed some skills in school, but it didnt feel like we were watching a 13 year old playing doctor. The feeling of the show changed when it returned from winter break in the first season, and it just progressively gets worse.

Shaun and Lea did not feel uncomfortable when they kissed, and Lea is more experienced than him. It is extremely unlikely that Shaun would be involved with someone who didnt have more experience than him, due to isolation as a child. People have different experience levels all the time without it feeling like an adult with a child. The difference is there seems like there are no feelings with Carly, and everything is forced. You could feel Shaun's attraction to Lea, he just didnt understand how to show it. He wanted to be with her and they had fun. Shaun was never complaining of misery because he was trying to be something he wasnt. She showed him how to loosen up without it feeling patronizing. He didnt have to get advice from everyone and their grandmother how to behave for the smallest of things. They figured ot out together. 

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57 minutes ago, OrchidThief said:

I found that absolutely repulsive, and more so when he asked the senior doctor if he also pawed at his new wife. Believe it or not, women are not just blobs of fat with nipples.

Keep in mind, Glassman and Shaun have a sort of father-son mentor-mentee relationship, so Shaun is usually the most blunt with him.

I am also of the opinion that Shaun's behavior was inappropriate. IMO Lim should at least put him on some sort of probation, or tell him he should get some therapy - yes, there is no cure for Autism, but a therapist can help him manage his thoughts better.

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14 hours ago, Ella713 said:

You know I'm kind of confused by Carly and her actions.  Seeing that she has a family member with autism, I expected her to be more understanding instead of forcing things on Shaun. If he doesn't like holding hands, then don't force him and you certainly don't make someone feel you up!

This bugs me, too. In the last episode she went over to his house and insisted on talking to him, even though he was researching a case. This week was even more annoying to interrupt him while he is preparing for surgery, and for something so inappropriate in that setting. I just don't like how their relationship is being written, and don't buy it. 

I also think that way whenever I see Glassman and Debra. The show has written him as seeming so much older than the actor actually is. I was shocked when I found out that the actors playing Glassman and Debra are married IRL, and are only 6 years apart in age. As they are written on the show, I don't buy Debra being interested in Glassman, though I like both characters separately. 

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9 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

I’m not wild about Shaun and Carly either.  Sheldon and Amy on Big Bang Theory seemed right- same level of intimacy experience, etc.  This just feels off.  A pairing of Shaun and Claire would have felt better than this .  I would pair Carly with the Asian doc.  

Loved seeing Dylan Kingwell return.  Very good young actor.

i thought for sure the gun was going to go off when Glassy was fooling around with it at the end.

Dylan Kingwell kind of resembles a 90s teen star. Out of all the kid actors today, he looks like he belongs on a real 90s show. 

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I don't think it's accidental that Glassman's view of the gun was better laid out and defended than his wife's.   While some people, including many on this board, may not want a gun in their home, the fact is that there are many homes in this country with guns and many, many responsible gun owners. 

The Glassman household consists of two mature adults. The chances of an accidental shooting are miniscule -- either of them is much, much more likely to be injured or killed in a car crash than with a gun. 

But I'm sure we'll be treated to some episode where someone does get shot to prove the point that the writers were tying to make.  So we can all say, "Ah ha, guns are very, very bad."

I also fully agree with those who thought: (1) the breast feel before surgery was inappropriate, and (2) Shaun's conduct in surgery was unacceptable.  We (the audience) are presented with a sympathetic Shaun.  And he obviously has great skills.  But I question whether someone with the level of emotional challenges we see from him in front of patients should be a surgeon. This isn't to say that some MDs with autism can't do it.  But ask yourself whether you would really and truly want Shaun operating on you or your family (not me) vs. being the one to diagnose what's wrong with you (sign me up for that!).

As an aside, I don't think it's ethical for the surgery chief to tell the patient that she either accepts Shaun as her surgeon or she has to go to another hospital.  Patients have a right to select their doctors -- to force the patient to accept someone with whom she wasn't comfortable was very unsettling.  I would have been ok had the chief tried to talk the patient into accepting Shaun, vs. threatening her if she didn't.

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1 hour ago, dogdays2 said:

The Glassman household consists of two mature adults. The chances of an accidental shooting are miniscule -- either of them is much, much more likely to be injured or killed in a car crash than with a gun. 

This is true.  It underlines even more why the scene was a problem for me and why they couldn't just  allow her to articulate a reason why she felt she needed to have a gun.  Even a 'I really just like to go out back and shoot some soda cans because it is relaxing." would have done better than what they did.  Because at the end of the day the arguments against are always easier than the arguments for.

The reality is just the presence of a gun in any situation raises the likelihood of being killed by a gun 50%.  It has also been positively linked to something called "weapons aggression" where just knowing you have a gun causes you to act more aggressively than you normally would and also correlates higher to an outcome where gun violence occurs.  In other words, a situations becomes escalated because of the presence of a gun rather than allowed to de-escalate.    And finally if you do have a gun you better be prepared to use it if you do draw it  or the likelihood is that you will become a victim of your own gun.  My dad who owned guns and was in  military drilled this into our heads.

I think they just wanted to create a big enough issue-issue to once again illustrate that these two just didn't know each other but they weirdly, could not write it so that it was more even handed.  The only thing I can think is that somewhere down the line her reason for needing it is going to come out and she'll be justified or it is a Checkov's gun and it will somehow cause tragedy.

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On 10/22/2019 at 12:07 PM, AnimeMania said:

I might be wrong but: After they fixed the legs of the guy that fell off the roof, wasn't he bleeding from his side. Did they explain why he was bleeding from his side and where the blood was coming from. If it was from the tumor, shouldn't they have found the tumor right away. That whole scenario seemed a little off. It would have been better if the husband still appeared drunk and they thought the wife was sneaking him booze into the hospital.

Working from memory here, so I will not get all the details correct but I think what happened was his blood pressure dropped so they assumed a potential stomach bleed or bleeding ulcers due to his alcoholism.  I don't recall that they actually saw blood on the bed or his clothes.  In the procedure to check the GI tract, Morgan insisted they be thorough or "the wife won't accept that her husband was drinking again" when they found the tumor.  So in a way, falling off the roof was a blessing in disguise.

I was surprised that the whole thing happened within 24 hours of his surgery, the time frame was mentioned at one point, and that two surgical residents were doing the endoscopy themselves without anyone else present. There were at least three other people beside the GI doc when I had one.

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The gun issue is always interesting.   As a never-want-a-gun person, I had a roommate who had guns.  This person was reasonably calm in the approach.  It was explained to me ahead of time.  I was presented with the guns, shown where they were kept, and all the questions I had were answered truthfully and honestly.  Those guns never bothered me after that. 

In contrast, I have a former friend who loves his guns.  He loves to show off his collection, without prompting.  He talks about using them to protect him & hi loved ones when the time is right.  He tells people that if anyone messes with his wife, he'll take care of it.  He makes people uncomfortable with his gun talk.  Just enough crazy gun talk that if anything were to happen, people would go "yep, that makes that sense", but not enough for the police to to step in. 

At this point, we do not know which type of gun owner Debbie is.  She immediately got on the defensive, which I imagine gun owners feel whenever one of us non-gun people get nervous.  However, Debbie made things worse by ignoring Dr. G's concerns.  If she wants to make things work, she's going to have to change her stance and be open to communication.

I thought the candles thing had been mentioned in passing before.  Maybe it was on a different program, but it sounded familiar to have ghost-brother say 'blow out the candles'. 

I'll admit, I'm disappointed that we didn't get to see Park preparing for surgery for an entire episode like we got to see Claire.  I was hoping we'd see each of them go through their day prepping for their first surgery and how each of their personalities went about their first nervous pre-surgery.  I suppose it would have been redundant at some point, but I thought it would be interesting.

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Overall an almost cartoonishly ridiculous episode where it felt like the B-plots (cups?) were written by 14-year-old boys. Sure, the former alcoholic just happened to have a brewery stomach and everyone is saved by the power of boob touching! I'm surprised his brother didn't pop up during that to give a thumbs up. Also, what the fuck Carly, your boyfriend with extreme anxiety issues and fixation problems is 45 minutes away from the biggest performance of his life and you decide now is the best time to offer ye olde titty for a passing workplace fondle? I thought he was going to ejaculate on the spot or get a boner in the OR or something. But apparently boob is to Shaun what spinach is to Popeye.

On 10/22/2019 at 12:39 PM, marcee said:

I felt icky with the Carly/Shaun scene. I know this relationship eventually has to have a sexual aspect, but Shaun is portrayed as childlike and innocent and it just felt wrong, to me. This is definitely a biased and stereotypical opinion and I apologize for any potential offense, but I'd rather Shaun begin a sexual relationship with someone on the same experience and maturity level as he is. In my mind, that means another person on the spectrum or potentially someone with a social anxiety disorder that puts them on the same footing. This relationship creates an unequal power dynamic and it doesn't feel entirely moral.

I get where you're coming from, but that's also highly subjective and usually inevitably ableist. I'm 28, a virgin, and have never really been kissed with romantic/sexual intent. I have severe spastic cerebral palsy and being visibly disabled (wheelchair) plus my muscle tone and speech pattern cause people to perceive me as childlike. Even when they get to know me and obviously know that I want a relationship/am attracted to them/understand consent etc. they just can't get past seeing me as a kid or some sort or accessory or motivational sidekick. I get told all the time I should "find somebody like me" (read: wheelchair) and I used to get really insulted by the idea that disabled people are inferior and should only date each other. With time, I've come around to the idea, but able people don't really get that two similarly disabled wheelchair users can't really date because a sexual relationship would be impossible, lol. Able people just want a way to compartmentalize our sexuality in socially acceptable parameters without confronting why disabled/neurodivergent people having desires makes them so uncomfortable.

On the other side of the coin, I'm very protective of my friend with Asperger's. She's in her mid-20s now and has been having sexual encounters with people decades older since about the age of 19/20. Her current partner is in their late 60s. While that makes me uncomfortable at times because I worry about people taking advantage, I also recognize that she's a grown woman who can make her own choices. She loves her life and I can't dictate he actions based on what I think she can handle or should be doing. That would be the same patronizing attitude that I hate when it's applied to me.

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3 hours ago, dogdays2 said:

I also fully agree with those who thought: (1) the breast feel before surgery was inappropriate, and (2) Shaun's conduct in surgery was unacceptable.  

As an aside, I don't think it's ethical for the surgery chief to tell the patient that she either accepts Shaun as her surgeon or she has to go to another hospital.  Patients have a right to select their doctors -- to force the patient to accept someone with whom she wasn't comfortable was very unsettling.  I would have been ok had the chief tried to talk the patient into accepting Shaun, vs. threatening her if she didn't.

Yeah, the breast feel was so poorly timed.  For someone like Shaun I would think that would have gotten him excited enough to not be able to fully concentrate on the surgery.  Why did she think it was a good time or place for it? Makes no sense.

And  I think Shaun would have not just kept saying no, no, no, no, no and run out of the operating room.  I think he would have excitedly said something like, no, this is not the right way to do it, there is a better way that will let her be able to eat!

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