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Airdate 2019.10.20

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The threat of the Whisperers' return leads to paranoia sweeping over Alexandria. Carol battles with the need for revenge.

Mod Note:  This thread is for discussion of the episode only.  If you didn't see it happen onscreen, discussion of it does not belong here and your post WILL be removed.  DO NOT DISCUSS CASTING NEWS, including reported cast comings and goings.   We have separate threads for discussing spoilers or the comics.  

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So last week I had to turn it off. Tonight I watched it all. Much of it was in total darkness and most of the rest seemed to various hallucinations and Carol (who seems more distraught over the lose of that PITA Henry than she did over Sophia) takes pills which is probably not a good idea since they all expired 10 years ago. That's pretty much all I got from this.

Oh, I forgot: Negan is being ressurected as some-kind of dick-waving hero, I guess.

Edited by AngelaHunter
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I liked the opening. I liked the bitch has got to die. Feel bad for poor Saddiq and his ptsd. I still can’t look at Negan without thinking of Glenn and Abraham. Good thing I like the guy playing him. Nothing they can do will redeem Negan. At all. 

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I think to understand WTF this episode was about or what the point of it was, I needed to be on whatever expired prescription meds Carol's on. Or whatever drugs the writers are on. 

I like how Rosita seems less concerned about her baby in the zombie apocalypse than most moms in the real world. Also, if I'm going to be going on a zombie killfest, I'd put my hair up, but like, whatever.

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

In fact Michonne, if you can figure out how the Whisperers are capable of leading the herd toward you, you should be able to lead the herd away from you.

The thing is they already know how to do this.  They've done it before; the biggest horde was, I think, the quarry walkers they were luring away from Alexandria.  They've used loudspeakers on trucks, they've used guns and firecrackers.  They know this can be done and they know how to do it.  It was, to me, the biggest inconsistency in the episode; I get that the first couple of hordes came unexpectedly but I don't understand why they didn't form a plan to have a group ready to lure future waves away.  Cannon is once they get moving in a certain direction they'll just keep going until distracted but nobody seemed to even think they should try that even when it's worked for them before.

Knowing how the Whisperers story goes from the comics even though we know there are going to be differences since the show has deviated from the comics in big and small ways all it leaves me with is a sense of boredom that there is still a certain amount of story to tell BUT.......... this Whisperers War and Silence the Whisperers thing is, like some of the other plots over the years, being dragged out beyond what they need to actually tell that story just so they can cover a certain amount of episodes.  As much as crazy Carol is interesting there's a little too much soap opera angst going on with multiple characters that they're wasting time trying to cover at the expense of actually moving the plot forward.

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Negan was the only tolerable character this entire episode.   He is the only one smart enough to basically say kill or be killed.  Yeah, he has a horrible backstory, but they all have varying degrees of horrible backstories.  He didn't have a case of the "can't shut the hell ups" which is a plus in his favor.

I hate Carol with a passion.  She along with Daryl enabled her useless "son"  and the end result was ten people getting piked.  Now out of nowhere she becomes a drug addict.  No real build up to that.  Where did she get the pills?

Memo to Carol.   Stop being a selfish bitch.  Bring a gun to a meeting and then trying to shoot Alpha would have been fine if you were there alone.  it would have been all on you.  But when you have a bunch of fellow protagonists around you, you were putting their lives at risk.  Stop being a selfish bitch.  You have already caused enough people to die.

Memo to Michonne.  If the Whisperers have the ability to control the herd and lead them in an attack against you, then if you kill the Whisperers, the herd can't be led anywhere.

In fact Michonne, if you can figure out how the Whisperers are capable of leading the herd toward you, you should be able to lead the herd away from you.

This 1000% .....

Carol IS.NOT.THAT.INTERESTING ..... move on before she gets them all killed....

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Negan was the only tolerable character this entire episode.

Someone - sorry, can't remember who - called it last week: Make an episode so intolerable, outlandish and boring that we'll be anxious to get back to Negan. So, it happened. Who knew this day would come?

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

  Now out of nowhere she becomes a drug addict.  No real build up to that.  Where did she get the pills?

Wasn't she on a boat before? Did she sail someplace far, far away where there's a stash of unexpired pills? Is someone cooking meth?  I think Daryl was hoping she'd share.

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I am really struggling to stay interested in this show. They are changing characters just to create unique new plot stories and I have zero interest in the whisperers. Their intro was amazing and heartbreaking and really intriguing. But learning about their life and having these set boundaries seems ridiculous. They are living as walkers - why do they care about boundaries? and what are they eating? how would anyone want to stay in that way of life?!? I think it would have been amazing if they had some ridiculous compound that was surrounded by walkers so no one would ever bother them. and they patrolled by walking within them and took over communities that way. Or even how they could go through towns and take all the supplies by being walkers. I just don't understand it at all and the more they try and explain it - the more logic flies out the window and the less i care! 

I am intrigued by the caffeine/speed/lack of sleep but feel like it was done way better on BSG. This is not groundbreaking story telling. And how on earth are there still this many hordes of walkers in the middle of rural america?!?!

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5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

All anyone has to do is listen to Eugene for 30 seconds.  That is all it would take to understand why he will probably be a virgin for the rest of his life.  

...which is exactly why TPTB should’ve hooked Eugene up with the deaf woman, not Daryl. 😉 

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6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Negan was the only tolerable character this entire episode.   He is the only one smart enough to basically say kill or be killed.  Yeah, he has a horrible backstory, but they all have varying degrees of horrible backstories.  He didn't have a case of the "can't shut the hell ups" which is a plus in his favor.

I hate Carol with a passion.  She along with Daryl enabled her useless "son"  and the end result was ten people getting piked.  Now out of nowhere she becomes a drug addict.  No real build up to that.  Where did she get the pills?

Memo to Carol.   Stop being a selfish bitch.  Bring a gun to a meeting and then trying to shoot Alpha would have been fine if you were there alone, it would have been all on you.  But when you have a bunch of fellow protagonists around you, you were putting their lives at risk.  Stop being a selfish bitch.  You have already caused enough people to die.

Memo to Michonne.  If the Whisperers have the ability to control the herd and lead them in an attack against you, then if you kill the Whisperers, the herd can't be led anywhere.

In fact Michonne, if you can figure out how the Whisperers are capable of leading the herd toward you, you should be able to lead the herd away from you.

PREACH!!!

I feel like I've been alone in the 'Carol-hate' wilderness for years so it's nice to have a little company.

Carol is ALL ABOUT CAROL.  Nobody else in the ZA has suffered and lost loved ones.  Just her.  And if anybody has lost somebody, Carol's pain is BIGGER AND DEEPER than theirs.  The way that horrible woman pushed past Ezekiel when he was trying to be nice to her (which is more than she deserves) made me see red.  Zeke lost a son too, but it's ALL ABOUT CAROL.

She took a gun to that meeting without giving a single thought to the dozens of people she was endangering because it's ALL ABOUT CAROL.  If she had shot Alpha when they were alone, that would have been one thing but then nobody would have seen Carol being a BADASS.

Now she's a junkie.  And in an evening of hallucinations, she was right ONCE, so we're going to have to endure this snotty, self-righteous creature dialing it up to 11 on the snotty and self-righteous scale.  THAT'S entertainment!

Michonne girl, if anybody knows you can't make deals with psychos, it's you.  Find a way to get ride of the Whisperers herd and then shoot them all in the head.

Edited by mightysparrow
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Memo to Michonne.  If the Whisperers have the ability to control the herd and lead them in an attack against you, then if you kill the Whisperers, the herd can't be led anywhere.

In fact Michonne, if you can figure out how the Whisperers are capable of leading the herd toward you, you should be able to lead the herd away from you.

DING DING DING. I just don't get why they're so afraid of these stupid Whisperers. It's not rocket science. The Whisperers are supposed to be "dangerous" because they control a herd. By dressing up in their skins and shuffling along amongst them, apparently. I'm still not sure why that works but whatever. The point is, now that the Alexandrians know what they're doing, there's nothing to prevent them from doing the same damn thing. Capture some walkers, skin them, put on their skins and shuffle the effing herd in the other direction. It's not like The Whisperers have magic powers, anyone could do what they're doing!

God I've never been so disgusted as when Carol got the gun knocked out of her hand by that idiot Daryl and Michonne actually apologized for her to Alpha. Michonne! To think we were this close to getting rid of that walking cartoon they call Alpha.

And what was that abandoned "academy" they stumbled upon in the dead of night, and how is it they are still discovering new buildings? Surely they have explored everything worth finding in their immediate area by now. They've been there for what, about ten years now?

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4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Now out of nowhere she becomes a drug addict.  No real build up to that.  Where did she get the pills?

Nice to know that resources are so plentiful in the ZA that people have the luxury of taking drugs on a recreational basis.

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30 minutes ago, slaterain said:

I am intrigued by the caffeine/speed/lack of sleep but feel like it was done way better on BSG. This is not groundbreaking story telling. And how on earth are there still this many hordes of walkers in the middle of rural america?!?!

So funny that you'd address BSG here because the opening of this completely reminded me of that early ep where they were jumping from spot to spot bec the cylons were chasing them down.

Somebody, for the love of Mike, tell me how they got batteries for flashlights and pills for Carol to pop several years into the ZA? Makes no sense at all, whatsoever.

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All anyone has to do is listen to Eugene for 30 seconds.  That is all it would take to understand why he will probably be a virgin for the rest of his life. 

All I know is that his moment of clarity/introspection as to whether he is, in actuality, a good (just)friend to Rosita was pretty cool. I've known too many "nice guys" who pretend to be OK with the "just friends" label, only to create some kind of drama later when they realize "lying in wait" is not going to pan out. Jerks.

And speaking of drama: while popping pills is probably a terrible plan on Carol's part, Daryl may be hyperbolizing just a bit with his "24 hours of no sleep makes you hallucinate" business. Even in the non-apocalypse world, plenty of people can go a solid day with no sleep and be more or less OK; I'd imagine these people have been very used to it over the last 7 or 8 years.

Edited by TattleTeeny
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Since Eugene in the past has proven to an amateur pharmacist in addition to general all-purpose science/mechanics guy and he's apparently forgotten all about making bullets, I'm going to handwave that he's making his own amphetamines now.  Plausible?  Oh who knows.  Like so many other things in this universe, it's probably best not to think too hard about it.

Curiously on reflection, I didn't completely hate this one as much as sometimes struggle to make sense of it.  Some of it sure, came across like a very special Saved By the Bell episode about the dangers of popping pills.  (Thanks, AV Club for that.)  But the opening montage was fairly solid and well edited, and I'm not opposed to acknowledging the very serious toll grief, exhaustion, and PTSD should be taking on all of these characters after years in a world of prematurely burying children and spouses again while weirdos run around wearing corpse faces for funsies and putting heads on pikes seems like an at all reasonable response to anything.   These people should be exhausted.  They should all be dysfunctional fucking basket cases.   Unfortunately the show can't seem to resist going so over the top artsy and self important to make that point.  I was halfway expecting Beth and the Governor to show up and sing a duet about the importance of being well rested.

I'll probably always love Carol because I'm a sucker for a well written difficult female character who's unapologetically difficult, but I'll also admit that I wasn't all that enthusiastic about retreading familiar ground with her just so she could take her turn filling in to spin Rick's big wheel o' sporadic crazy and this really wasn't one of the show's better Carol-centric episodes.  I do like that I can understand where both she and Michonne are coming from and still be frustrated with Carol for not thinking through taking a gun to the border meeting, which she probably should have skipped if she couldn't keep it together, or Michonne for apologizing and bowing and scraping to this filthy bald crazy woman even as it makes sense that her larger goal is to just keep everybody alive for now.  I have to keep reminding myself of that last fact because it's otherwise damn difficult to watch our gang so readily have terms dictated to them and "yes mam" those terms with nary a hint of pushback.  Do Daryl and Michonne seriously think they can live longterm next to these weirdos who so callously murdered their friends and family and that they won't keep taking more and more whenever they feel like it or arbitrarily slaughter some more people because of some arbitrary line they pull out of their asses?  What is the plan here?  Michonne was at least able to call out that the angry Highwayman woman (Highwaywoman?) didn't have one beyond "we should do something."

Negan and Aaron's scenes also strangely weren't terrible, which puts me on uncomfortable footing because I absolutely hate that the show is obviously working to cram a redemption arc for that monologuing SOB down our throats.  But Negan was actually making a fair amount of sense and him sitting and passively watching a blinded Aaron stumbling around making noise and flashing light before finally jumping in for a last-minute save was amusing.

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58 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

And speaking of drama: while popping pills is probably a terrible plan on Carol's part, Daryl may be hyperbolizing just a bit with his "24 hours of no sleep makes you hallucinate" business. Even in the non-apocalypse world, plenty of people can go a solid day with no sleep and be more or less OK; I'd imagine these people have been very used to it over the last 7 or 8 years.

No shit.  24 hours of no sleep does NOT make you hallucinate - it makes you (stop the presses!) sleepy.  Most people don’t get into hallucination territory until they get past the 48 hour mark, although it’s pretty common (in varying degrees) after hour 72.

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

God I've never been so disgusted as when Carol got the gun knocked out of her hand by that idiot Daryl and Michonne actually apologized for her to Alpha. Michonne! To think we were this close to getting rid of that walking cartoon they call Alpha.

Some people might hate Carol for what she did, I'm just thankful there is one person who understands that no one wants another S7-8 of Rick vs Negan. Remember when killing bad guys was a good thing? When that saved lives? The dumbassery of going to a meeting with your enemy completely unarmed. That's like asking for your head to be put on a spike. Just freaking kill them you morons. Lack bullets to do it? Get Eugene on it.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The Whisperers are supposed to be "dangerous" because they control a herd. By dressing up in their skins and shuffling along amongst them, apparently. I'm still not sure why that works but whatever. The point is, now that the Alexandrians know what they're doing, there's nothing to prevent them from doing the same damn thing. Capture some walkers, skin them, put on their skins and shuffle the effing herd in the other direction. It's not like The Whisperers have magic powers, anyone could do what they're doing!

IKR. And it's not like our team hasn't put on dead camouflage before. Hell if they don't want to skin walkers, just take the skins off Whisperers you kill and wear their masks. What would be even better, dress up like Whisperers, infiltrate their camp, cause chaos and kill them.

Heck the Whisperers are supposed to be acting like herd animals. Or nomadic wanderers. It makes no sense for them to stay in one place. A herd wanders. It moves on. So what are they sticking around and establishing borders for? There's nothing that I can see that they want. They don't want the communities because they abhor that life. They aren't cannibals so they don't need humans to eat. So what is the point of anything that they do? Living life like animals? Ok fine, then move somewhere where there are no people. Simple. Why are you harassing others who don't want to live like you? What do you get out of it, what is the point?

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I only caught the last 8 minutes (was watching Poldark) just in time to see Siddiq talking to the other doctor.  Siddiq has really gorgeous eyes.

I also saw the bit with Eugene talking to Rosita but I don't even want to think about Eugene and sex/romance.   I wouldn't want him if he were the last man on earth.  Literally.

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Why the eff do they keep tapdancin' and kowtowing around the Big Bads (Negan, Alpha) when they have a chance to wipe them out? Nope, we have to keep losing good people in their favor. So blinkin' irritating! I can't believe they let Alpha take the land just because. Stupid as eff.

Much as I like a good Carol/Daryl episode, I'm pretty much done.

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All I kept saying over and over through the entire show (my poor hubby just let me keep rambling on) was shoot her and shoot him.  Meaning Alpha and Negan.  Just frickin do it.  The rest of the Whisperers are so stupid, they wouldn't react.  And for the love of all that is everything,  how are maybe 30 people dressed liked walkers even remotely a threat?  Just take your bows and arrows and hide for the border meeting, have Carol shoot Alpha while the rest of you pick off the remaining 20 or 30 others.  Problem solved.  And Aaron, kill Negan when you had the chance.  No loss, threat gone.

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I have been so patient, waiting for this show to get better, but it just sucks now. This season has been so painful. I had no freaking clue what was happening last night. It was ridiculous. 

I'm so tired of the show being shot in the dark half the time. I can't see a thing on screen. I'm tired of having to watch The Talking Dead to find out what was supposed to have happened during the episode. I'm just tired of the show. Period. I was such a huge fan and I'm so over all of this. 

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I’m lost. That’s all I can say. Too much hallucinating in this episode, couldn’t work out what was real and what wasn’t. I get after 10 years it can be hard to keep a show interesting, but this series has taken such a massive nosedive that I’m not even sure what I’m watching anymore, or why 

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3 hours ago, Farley said:

And Aaron, kill Negan when you had the chance.  No loss, threat gone.

He can't. That would piss off Michonne who follows the word of the Sainted RickyG (who followed The Word of Coral, a mixed-up hormonal teenager) to a "tee". Makes sense, right?

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This show is getting ridiculous, it was mostly in the dark, making it very difficult to know what was happening.

As someone else said earlier, where did Carol get the pills from, no mention of her ever taking pills before.

I can't stand that Alpha woman, I hope they get rid of her soon.

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5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Since Eugene in the past has proven to an amateur pharmacist in addition to general all-purpose science/mechanics guy and he's apparently forgotten all about making bullets, I'm going to handwave that he's making his own amphetamines now. 

Maybe since Rosita has rejected him, he can reinvent himself as a drug kingpin and crime lord.  Maybe Negan will end up working for him.

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7 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Since Eugene in the past has proven to an amateur pharmacist in addition to general all-purpose science/mechanics guy and he's apparently forgotten all about making bullets, I'm going to handwave that he's making his own amphetamines now. 

But did he start making them (how?) right after Carol arrived by boat, decided she wanted some drugs, sought Eugene out, somehow knew he was an amateur pharmacist (can even professional pharmacists with all manner of modern equipment manufacture drugs from any materials at hand?) and specificially requested he whip up some uppers? Is Eugene growing and processing coca plants in the intervals between panting and grovelling at Rosita's heels?

This has gone even beyond comic books into "Looney Tunes."

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Apparently Kang said on TTD that they're expired caffeine pills, like No Doz.  Which okay, whatever.  That's about as plausible as anything else at this point, even in an old prescription pill bottle.  Clearly the show just wants us to go with it and not think about it too deeply, which could actually apply to almost anything they show us.

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I understand that Carol's PTSD is greater this time around because she lost so many children since Sophia. But I couldn't believe Sam was listed among the children she lost. She didn't even like Sam! When Alpha said that Henry asked for Carol before they be-headed him that made me see red. So disrespectful! That bitch needs to die for that comment alone!

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21 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Apparently Kang said on TTD that they're expired caffeine pills, like No Doz. 

Yes, I keep forgetting that those of us who never watch the after-show where it's explained what we just watched will never know because the body of an episode doesn't or can't show OR tell us what's happening. As usual, I'll have to remain ignorant.

5 minutes ago, tricknasty said:

But I couldn't believe Sam was listed among the children she lost.

What? Sam, the kid she verbally tortured and traumatized with her horror stories? Who already had a mother? He was Carol's loss? I missed that part.

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28 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

People evolve.  Sometimes just friends evolve into more than that, intimate relationships.  It does happen. I've seen it happen.

Rosita can say all she wants that she isn't interested in an intimate relationship with Eugene.  That doesn't mean that at some point in time that she might travel down that path where she wants that type of relationship.

Regardless, Eugene needs to go about living his life, and if Rosita decides she wants that type of relationship, Eugene will have a decision to make.  He just can't waste his life waiting around for something that may never happen.

Sure, of course, I know all of that and have seen it happen (and been personally involved in it happening); my point was not that it can never happen--just that I dug Eugene worrying that he was being her friend under a pretense. And that there are indeed guys who do exactly what he was describing (because been there too and, suffice it to say, I'm no longer friends with those dudes).

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Well, it was certainly more interesting than last week anyway. 

I honestly felt like I was getting a headache half the time, all of the "artsy" stuff was just confusing and kind of annoying. I love Carol, flaws and all, especially her friendship with Darryl, but I really didnt need to watch her go on some kind of weird trip to tell that she is in a bad head space after her son was killed. I get how messed up she is (really, all of these people should be an absolute PTSD riddled mess) but could we maybe get moving? 

Poor Saddiq, I am really worried about him. Glad that Michonne checked in with him, but he needs more than just some shots. 

Negan actually wasnt as awful as usual, but he has a LOT of work to do if they want me to look at him and not see Glenn, Abe, and his many other victims. 

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I didn't know caffeine pills expired?

Caffeine pills have a shelf life of ~5 years.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

  If I were on them, I would be bouncing off the walls.  Caffeine makes me jittery. 

Not as much on old/expired caffeine pills; they don’t turn into anything flaky, they just get weaker.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I sure as heck wouldn't be seeing things that aren't there.

Neither would anybody else NOT a resident of Planet Kang.

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9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yes, I keep forgetting that those of us who never watch the after-show where it's explained what we just watched will never know because the body of an episode doesn't or can't show OR tell us what's happening.

Yeah, that's a problem for me too.  I don't care so much about the fangirling aspect of it as I wouldn't expect an aftershow on the same network that regularly has the showrunners on it to be super critical, even if I don't generally watch it as I don't particularly enjoy the tongue bathing it does of even the worst of Gimple or Kirkman.  But if you make a main character abusing pills a main storyline for an episode, I shouldn't have to watch an entirely different show to find out what those pills were or where she might have gotten them.  Kang and company should really take the hint that if questions about plot holes repeatedly pop up there, you haven't done your job as writers. 

In this case, I didn't even watch beyond the first couple minutes of the show as I was shuffling everybody off to their respective beds.  I got it secondhand from other posters on another discussion site who did watch it.

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9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Negan actually wasnt as awful as usual, but he has a LOT of work to do if they want me to look at him and not see Glenn, Abe, and his many other victims. 

Every time I look at him, I see the sex slaves. The young girl in the middle (Amber?) watched her boyfriend being tortured by Negan and then had to continue submitting to him, a man way past old enough to be her father. That is some twisted shit. Ugh.

There's nothing he can do that would make me see him as anything other than a monster.

negan-and-wives1.jpg

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The show, and much of the fandom, seems to really be glossing over that bit of nastiness doesn't it?  As a woman of a certain age myself, I've noticed that many women of a certain age find JDM hot and thus want to keep watching Negan.  I get the sense that because we never saw him throwing any of these "wives" down while they kicked and screamed that they figure it wasn't really all that big a deal and anyway, he's done his time, and he's sorry now and "reformed," whatever that even means for a guy like Negan in this universe.  

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The one time I had a real problem with Eugene is when he allowed himself due to fear to be manipulated by Negan.

Being initially taken in by Negan didn't bother me as it hit Eugene's sweet spot of both being a coward and wanting his ego stroked by someone who actually found all of his random and sundry intelligence and know-how useful.  Rick and crew had been fairly dismissive of all of Eugene's sciencey stuff up to that point since he wasn't also a badass fighter, and Eugene could clearly see the writing on the wall that if they couldn't get their shit together enough to mount a rescue of Daryl, who he knew they did like and value, they certainly weren't going to be making any effort for him.  I could understand how, despite his loyalty to the murdered Abraham, he'd choose to make the best of it in taking the path that allowed him to live in some relative comfort with his giant jar of pickles and vintage game systems.  It was as the Savior war dragged on and he kept getting increasingly butthurt that his former cohorts who were suffering under the Saviors didn't still want to be his bestest buddies, prompting him to more and more grandiose unintelligible monologuing, that he got really tiresome.  

As much as I'm largely indifferent to Rosita and the ever shifting status of her harem, Eugene really should have known better than to pull his Sir Friend Zone routine on her.  A woman isn't likely to forget that a guy once deliberately puked mac and cheese on her when she did try to help extricate him from the Savior mess.

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23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

God I've never been so disgusted as when Carol got the gun knocked out of her hand by that idiot Daryl and Michonne actually apologized for her to Alpha. Michonne! To think we were this close to getting rid of that walking cartoon they call Alpha.

Absolutely, I don’t get the hate for Carol, surely she was the only one attending that meeting with the right idea. This rabble exists for only two reasons, Elpha and Chewie, take them out and the threat collapses. TPTB cannot show us years of our group fighting, battling, learning the lessons needed for survival, to then just ignore that hard won knowledge and experience. 
Lay down your weapons and let a group approach you, a group which just happened to have firearms on them, the main leaders could have been wiped out, after so many years would our people be so stupid, can you see Shane doing that? 
It’s a nonsense, obviously they have to see the Comic story through to the end, but making people act in a way that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, that goes against everything we’ve seen them do before, is what’s making the whole thing laughable.

The podgy bald buffoon laying down the law, saying this and that is now “my land” is nothing but a joke, Daryl needs to take Carol’s back and get the ‘Terminatrix’ back on track.

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I will never forgive Neagan for what he did to Daryl. I cannot stand the story line of him changing into a good guy. Lock him up in a dark closet, serve him dog food, and play that horrible song just like he did to my Daryl. Then kill him!

I don't understand why they are so scared of the whisperers? Just kill them already. What happened to the bullet making factory? They need to go back to the earlier group methods, before that jerl Carl messed everything up. Remember the govenor? You killed his people. Kill Alpha and Beta already.

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14 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

People evolve.  Sometimes just friends evolve into more than that, intimate relationships.  It does happen. I've seen it happen.

Rosita can say all she wants that she isn't interested in an intimate relationship with Eugene.  That doesn't mean that at some point in time that she might travel down that path where she wants that type of relationship.

Regardless, Eugene needs to go about living his life, and if Rosita decides she wants that type of relationship, Eugene will have a decision to make.  He just can't waste his life waiting around for something that may never happen.

Yes.  If Eugene would had find someone, maybe she would be the one turning jealous.  Sometimes people don't care until they do. That's life.

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13 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Sure, of course, I know all of that and have seen it happen (and been personally involved in it happening); my point was not that it can never happen--just that I dug Eugene worrying that he was being her friend under a pretense. And that there are indeed guys who do exactly what he was describing (because been there too and, suffice it to say, I'm no longer friends with those dudes).

If they keep respect and are ok with it, who cares?  I am single and out of a 15 years relationship.  I have a 43 years old friendship with a girl who just has starting hitting on me.  I don't know what the future is but I won't ban her because of that.

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2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The show, and much of the fandom, seems to really be glossing over that bit of nastiness doesn't it?  As a woman of a certain age myself, I've noticed that many women of a certain age find JDM hot and thus want to keep watching Negan.  I get the sense that because we never saw him throwing any of these "wives" down while they kicked and screamed, that they figure it wasn't really all that big a deal and anyway, he's done his time and he's sorry now and "reformed," whatever that even means for a guy like Negan in this universe.  

Being initially taken in by Negan didn't bother me as it hit Eugene's sweet spot of both being a coward and wanting his ego stroked by someone who actually found all of his random and sundry intelligence and know-how useful.  Rick and crew had been fairly dismissive of all of Eugene's sciencey stuff up to that point since he wasn't also a badass fighter, and Eugene could clearly see the writing on the wall that if they couldn't get their shit together enough to mount a rescue of Daryl, who he knew they did like and value, they certainly weren't going to be making any effort for him.  I could understand how, despite his loyalty to the murdered Abraham, he'd choose to make the best of it in taking the path that allowed him to live in some relative comfort with his giant jar of pickles and vintage game systems.  It was as the Savior war dragged on and he kept getting increasingly butthurt that his former cohorts who were suffering under the Saviors didn't still want to be his bestest buddies, prompting him to more and more grandiose unintelligible monologuing, that he got really tiresome.  

As much as I'm largely indifferent to Rosita and the ever shifting status of her harem, Eugene really should have known better than to pull his Sir Friend Zone routine on her.  A woman isn't likely to forget that a guy once deliberately puked mac and cheese on her when she did try to help extricate him from the Savior mess.

What is bugging me is that Eugene is the only one able to open a book and fix things that belong to the 20th, 21th century.  All the others are living holding sticks and are ready to get back to the caves to do some finger paintings on the walls.

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2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I've noticed that many women of a certain age find JDM hot and thus want to keep watching Negan.  I get the sense that because we never saw him throwing any of these "wives" down while they kicked and screamed, that they figure it wasn't really all that big a deal and anyway, he's done his time and he's sorry now and "reformed,"

JDM is an attractive man. Negan is not. He's repulsive. It's not just women of a certain age who think he's hot, either. Many of his fans and fantasizers are really young and feel he's some kind of hot Galahad because they think there is only one kind of rape. He did NOT hold these women down or beat them and he didn't let anyone else rape them, therefore no rape.

 They've never heard of "coercion" and think these women chose to have sex with him. That men might envy him and women want to be with him is kind of scary, really. And he's not sorry. Not one bit. Not reformed either. Seeing Judith being allowed to keep company with him was disgusting. *I* wouldn't want to be anywhere near him, let alone allow my young daughter to do so.

He needs to be pushed into a patch of giant hogweed!

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I could understand how, despite (Eugene's) loyalty to the murdered Abraham, he'd choose to make the best of it in taking the path that allowed him to live in some relative comfort with his giant jar of pickles and vintage game systems.

I understood that quite well. I didn't see he had any other option if he wanted to stay alive.

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

A woman isn't likely to forget that a guy once deliberately puked mac and cheese on her when she did try to help extricate him from the Savior mess.

Yeah, no turn-on, that! Even if he hadn't puked on her, he's not her type obviously. Rosita certainly has varied tastes, but he's not one them. He'll have to settle for being the harem eunuch.

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I'll start by saying that I do Love Carol. I believe that her background of being a battered wife explains quite a bit about her motivations. She was helpless for most of her adult life. Lost her daughter and was unable to do anything about that. She correctly lobbied for kids to be trained to defend themselves- so as not to become walker chow. She saved CBD from the cannibal cult. She, like Shane saw early on that the civilization is forever changed. The old rules do not apply any longer. She put her big girl panties on and delivered time and again when it mattered. 

The impression that I got from the many montages is that she hasn't been allowing herself to go into rem sleep. Setting the egg timer for 1 hour and getting up. I read somewhere that most (not all, of course) medications are good WELL past the expiration date on the bottles. I did not watch TTD, and I understood from the show that she was using some kind of uppers to function between her hour naps. 

As for her reaction to the Whisperers, I think she's just WTF! Why are you all putting up with this crap. They have seen so many "bad guys" and or groups, and have lived through so much that bowing to these freaks is just beyond her ability to justify. I wish she had shot Alpha, especially after she goaded her with Henry's last words. I would really like this crap fest to come to an end. It doesn't make any sense to me. I know, they have a giant hoard..... I get that. It was also stated above that our group has re-directed hoards before. Just get stabby and put this to an end......

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

It would make far more sense to kill both Alpha and Beta at the same time.

Just a couple of snipers hiding and waiting for the good moment then they are done.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I have nothing against Rosita.  I just don't think she is any great prize.  There should be a lot more women alive than men.   If Eugene would talk in more normal human speak instead of gibberish, he would probably have more options.

I would go on vacation on seaside beach, like you say plenty of choice over there, even for him.

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