S09.E15: Finale Reunion

[bichonblitz]

How could anybody hear what the reunion couples were saying when the past couples were talking over them with their comments? How effing irritating. And I really don't ever need to hear Doug's comments on anything ever again. What a pain in the ass he is. 

[ladyscorpio]

9 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Hold up. Have we not talked about Amber’s studio apartment. On a 80k salary? So is she following Dave Ramsey? Is housing that expensive in Charlotte?

I don't believe  her about that. I've always heard teachers don't get paid enough money (they should though). I was ridiculous when she told Matt she can support both of them on her salary and he wouldn't have to work or play basketball anymore after knowing him a few hours. That shows how desperate she is. Not including the list of other pathetic things did and said. It wouldn't surprise me one bit when she starts stalking him and he will have to get a restraining order against her. 

[AussieBabe]

13 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I could absolutely see this happening. Style tips, hair tutorials, recipes, OOTD vids, self-reflection on why her virginity is so important to her, 27 things Iris learned about Iris 🙄, interviews with the other cast members, what she’s looking for in a man, etc.

*I seriously hope she’s not trolling these forums because don’t do this, Iris. 

I fully believe it’s coming. Book, IG influencer, motivational speaker to others like her, t-shirts, vlogs, TV show, talk show, etc. The sky is the limit. No way Iris, her on personality, and her divorced virgin status are just going to quietly settle back into normalcy. I wonder if anybody has ever trademarked The Divorced Virgin or Virgin Divorcée. She totally was loving her new status as the divorced virgin at the reunion.

[trimthatfat]

11 hours ago, After7Only said:

Deonna is a pretty good catch actually.  She's attractive and fit, adventurous, successful in her career, open and intelligent.  She has a dry sense of humor, but so does Greg and a lot of their banter was very fun and teasing towards each other.  Greg could do much worse.  Of the 4 ladies, Deonna was probably the most prepared for a committed relationship.

She really is! I’m surprised to see that she wasn’t liked when she seems to be the most well-adjusted wife on this show. I am glad that she ended up with Greg and I think they’ll go the distance.

[psychoticstate]

10 hours ago, RaeSpellman said:

While I don't condone Matt's behavior I certainly understand it.  Amber acted like a groupie 15 minutes in, so he treated her accordingly. Future cast members might do well to view Amber as a cautionary tale.

Not saying Amber's behavior was great, because it certainly wasn't, but does that give Matt carte blanche to use her, walk all over her and lie to her?  I mean, if he truly knew 15 minutes in it was never going to work, why on earth did he unload that line of bull at the "recommitment" thing?   Honestly, that's just cruel.   And to spew that nonsense at the couples' mountain retreat, where he kept saying how he and Amber had connected, were building on something, etc. when he knew damn good and well that he was not only cheating on her but he was going to bail in less than a week?  

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I’m starting to believe Keith just did this for the exposure. All he did was talk in circles and did not give a definitive answer as to why he wants a divorce. 

I thought he was quite clear actually. She was sexually immature (and immature in other ways but I don't think he said that). He didn't want to be the person to help her shape her sexuality. Bottom line - he got a divorce because he didn't want to be married to Iris. It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that.

Quote

Not saying Amber's behavior was great, because it certainly wasn't, but does that give Matt carte blanche to use her, walk all over her and lie to her?

No it does not. He's a dick.

[psychoticstate]

17 hours ago, Auntie said:

True. Amber just wants to have sex with a man, any man, she doesn't care. She equates having sex to being in love. That girl is so damaged it's pathetic. I don't know how any of these people can show their faces in their hometown anymore....

I'm not going to go that far.  I mean, if Amber simply wanted to have sex with any man, or all the men in Charlotte, she could aim for that without MAFS and getting married.  I think she thought that getting married would provide her with the security she was lacking from her mother leaving.    I think her sister mentioned that Amber doesn't do well choosing men so maybe Amber thought having "experts" choose for her would be better.  And marriage does make breaking up a bit more difficult than just dating. 

16 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Hold up. Have we not talked about Amber’s studio apartment. On a 80k salary? So is she following Dave Ramsey? Is housing that expensive in Charlotte?

I don't have an issue with a studio apartment but where was she living before?  Why didn't she go back there?  Did she let that place go?  

15 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

My friend the SPED teacher with tons more experience & a masters degree doesn't make anywhere near that. Amber must have one hell of a side hustle. She tried sex & money to get some schmuck she idolized for no good reason to love her- pitiful.

While I'm at it even though I despise Matt, Amber was no prize in other ways.  She did have an authoritative air about her - the bathroom scene comes to mind - shows up out of nowhere: "What are you doing?" in a mommy caught you tone- & I believe her arms were folded at the time. She has an obnoxious personality, period.

On another note, Matt & Jamie can go off somewhere alone as I can't stand either one of them; both are nasty, cruel, unfeeling robot 'men'.

I disagree re: the bathroom scene, especially knowing what we know now.  I'll bet that Amber picked up on 15-minute Matt not being into her.  His using the other bathroom was yet another sign to her that he wasn't into the marriage and her.  To the viewers, it looked minor and like it was no big deal.  Heck, I think I even called Amber out for it back when the epi aired.  But knowing what went down in the future, and how Matt was behaving, I totally get it now.  To Amber, Matt wanting his own space was not only signifying more of a roommate relationship but driving home that he wasn't invested.  

Ironic that Matt would say, somewhat as an excuse, that he thought he and Amber were "just friends."  A friend that he not only had sex with but didn't bother to be truthful with or have a conversation with that they were "just friends" although legally married.  

Matt was and is a fuckwit.

Keith - - looking back now, I think the main reason Keith was hesitant over pushing the sex issue with Iris wasn't so much the responsibility of being her first, as he explained to Pastor Cal, but more so because he knew that Iris wasn't the one for him.  If that's true, I have respect for him not going there (and he certainly would have been eviscerated by viewers for taking Iris' v-card and then bailing.)  

I did find it interesting that Iris said to Kevin that she wanted to have sex with her husband (paraphrasing) -- not "I wanted to have sex with Keith."  So she wants to be married for the sake of being married?    

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I did find it interesting that Iris said to Kevin that she wanted to have sex with her husband (paraphrasing) -- not "I wanted to have sex with Keith."  So she wants to be married for the sake of being married?    

I really wanted someone to ask her why she didn't then have sex with her husband - or even come close to it. She had 8 weeks! I still believe she has issues around sex that she needs to own and address before she can be physically intimate with anyone.

[gonecrackers]

18 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I disagree re: the bathroom scene, especially knowing what we know now.  I'll bet that Amber picked up on 15-minute Matt not being into her.  His using the other bathroom was yet another sign to her that he wasn't into the marriage and her.  To the viewers, it looked minor and like it was no big deal.  Heck, I think I even called Amber out for it back when the epi aired.  But knowing what went down in the future, and how Matt was behaving, I totally get it now.  To Amber, Matt wanting his own space was not only signifying more of a roommate relationship but driving home that he wasn't invested.  

I understand & she probably did pick up on those vibes; she was obviously confused by his BS talk, but not there behavior. I was talking about her way about confronting him - it was an attitude & demeanor that was authoritatively disapproving. She could've approached it differently - "Why do you want to use a separate bathroom?" would've come off better than, "What are you doing?", arms folded, stern look & tone. It also wasn't the only time she addressed him that way, although I can't recall specifically what happened, I do recall her general way about her toward him being rather obnoxious.

Matt said she was "too much", & I can fully believe that. No, it doesn't justify anything he did, at all, & I've been upfront with how I feel about him - all negative. But I do also believe she's just "too much".

On the positive side, she can fix that. I think if she becomes self-aware somehow she has hope, but Matt doesn't care what he does or how he's perceived, so he's probably destined to be a douche bag forever.

26 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Matt was and is a fuckwit.

and most likely always will be.

[gonecrackers]

25 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I really wanted someone to ask her why she didn't then have sex with her husband - or even come close to it. She had 8 weeks! I still believe she has issues around sex that she needs to own and address before she can be physically intimate with anyone.

I don't believe this part was all her fault - Keith didn't want her. He has said he did not want to be the one to "teach" her anything sexually. Maybe he watched to see if there was any spark between them, but mostly I think he was riding out the weeks until over - he did not want a virgin, & Iris's personality probably just sealed the no-deal for him.

[Liberty]

17 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I don't believe this part was all her fault - Keith didn't want her.

You are making a good point.  Her requirement was having a husband, and she hoped it would be with her MAFS husband because of the producer's skill in matching couples.  When the situation she required was satisfied, she still did not move forward with her plan.  Her MAFS marriage was a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement.

Did we see anything that indicated Keith rejected her nuptial sexual advances?

Additionally she is nuts, so to think she can set conditions and then follow her own rules is possibly naive.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Liberty

[gonecrackers]

53 minutes ago, Liberty said:

Did we see anything that indicated Keith rejected her nuptial sexual advances?

Probably not - I am going by things Keith (& Iris) said. I can't quote verbatim but he didn't want a virgin & has been upfront about that. Of course he didn't say that during the season on the show, but on Unfiltered he did state he wasn't sure of his commitment to Iris. The immaturity comments would come in, but he definitely was clear he didn't like her lack of sexual experience, which he spoke about on decision day & in the finale.

Reg. Iris, on Unfiltered she said she & Keith discussed - & agreed - to not doing anything overly sexual on camera due to their work with children, which I feel is why she came off as disgusted or horrified at times. Honestly I can't blame her for not wanting Keith to touch her boob with the world (or at least a few of us) watching - next season on screen fondling I suppose (geez WTF?!). But that's why she said she didn't want to do the dice game, & she also said Keith was aware of why & agreed. IMO it was stupid show shit to play up the awkward virgin narrative.

That said I also feel Iris, like Amber but in different ways, is "too much", which probably also turned off Keith. And to be fair to the men, I'm not a Keith fan because I'm gathering he was not on this show for the right reasons, but I think that can be said for the majority of people who land on this show.

[MajorNelson]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

I think the main reason Keith was hesitant over pushing the sex issue with Iris wasn't so much the responsibility of being her first, as he explained to Pastor Cal, but more so because he knew that Iris wasn't the one for him.  If that's true, I have respect for him not going there (and he certainly would have been eviscerated by viewers for taking Iris' v-card and then bailing.)  

I think the above is right....he knew if he wasn't 100% sure he and Iris were going to be together long term then he'd hold off on the sex.  But he'd already had the sink lecture, and the lemonade scenes and for sure had major  doubts about Iris.

1 hour ago, Liberty said:

When the situation she required was satisfied, she still did not move forward with her plan.  Her MAFS marriage was a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement.

Iris could have theoretically and legally and morally lost her v-card in this 8 week marriage, but was unwilling to let herself get over the goal line.  Maybe, her strategy was to wait until after the 8 weeks, and if still together then have sex....

[Kareem]

I've wondered why, if Iris and Keith are talking, and doing dinners and whatnot, why she was still asking him at the reunion to explain why her virginity was such a big deal.  She knows he opted for divorce, wasn't clear on where things were going in the future, which I can understand, but after the reunion and in private, you would think they would have covered something as important as that.  He mentioned it was a concern enough times to piss her off.  What the heck are they talking about?

[gonecrackers]

Me, everytime someone says Iris could have lost her virginity during this 8 week marriage experiment-

Excuse my frustration, but, doesn't it take two? Keith admitted he did not want to teach her anything sexually, & he knew she was a virgin from the wedding, so right from the wedding he shut down. I'm not saying Iris wasn't a pain in the ass which added insult to injury for him, but, he didn't want to be her first, so losing her virginity with Keith was never an option for her.

Edited September 20, 2019 by gonecrackers

[AussieBabe]

11 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Probably not - I am going by things Keith (& Iris) said. I can't quote verbatim but he didn't want a virgin & has been upfront about that. Of course he didn't say that during the season on the show, but on Unfiltered he did state he wasn't sure of his commitment to Iris. The immaturity comments would come in, but he definitely was clear he didn't like her lack of sexual experience, which he spoke about on decision day & in the finale.

Reg. Iris, on Unfiltered she said she & Keith discussed - & agreed - to not doing anything overly sexual on camera due to their work with children, which I feel is why she came off as disgusted or horrified at times. Honestly I can't blame her for not wanting Keith to touch her boob with the world (or at least a few of us) watching - next season on screen fondling I suppose (geez WTF?!). But that's why she said she didn't want to do the dice game, & she also said Keith was aware of why & agreed. IMO it was stupid show shit to play up the awkward virgin narrative.

That said I also feel Iris, like Amber but in different ways, is "too much", which probably also turned off Keith. And to be fair to the men, I'm not a Keith fan because I'm gathering he was not on this show for the right reasons, but I think that can be said for the majority of people who land on this show.

The virgin narrative was stupid. They discussed it but why did she tell the world she had engaged in oral activities on Unfiltered? She could’ve politely declined to answer if the question was asked. I don’t know what was said, but I remember everybody kind of being like wtf?! I get the not wanting to be fondled on camera, but it was more off the wall to hear her say that. Like they didn’t agree to not discuss sexual activities or what?

Deonna/Greg discussed sex in a mature way without her crinkling up her nose and without the public being all up in their business. I wasn’t understanding why Iris was turning her nose up at questions about favourite position. She could’ve simply said I don’t know. 

[MisMis]

On 9/18/2019 at 7:01 PM, 2727 said:

I just want to go around the room and tape Iris' mouth, snatch her wig, tie Matt's manspreading knees together, throw away Amber's earrings, give Beth some pettipants, and put Iris' wig on Jamie.

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time.

[pdlinda]

16 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Was he too stupid to understand that this was what he was signing up for when he agreed to be on this show? Too lazy to follow through?

YES and  YES.  End of story.  End of discussion.

[LittleTexas]

I think one things that needs to be brought out, is that Iris turned up her lip and her nose at sex, at almost Every turn.  She seemed too chilly to Ever enjoy sex. Keith WAS her husband, she was saving sex For her husband. As kind, patient, and good, as he was to her, all through the 8 weeks, then she should have let him know a WHEN this was going to be happening..honestly by 7 weeks, she Should have been there, and I think he would have stayed. Keith was being kind; she is immature in MANY ways.  Don't get all flexed about his having sex Before you met him..red flag-ville!  I also think it was Not fair that the experts did not inform him of this, Before they were to meet.

MATT..what a Dog. He got into this for some kind of "fame". Amber said she had spoken to the girl he screwed around with, and the girl felt sorry for her. ie, he does this a LOT, and I think someone on staff Had to know this.  It makes for good tv, to put a lion, and a wounded Lamb together, so viewers can Witness the slaughter. But, I do NOT  like it; they HAD to know he would crush Amber.  Poor girl should Not get into a relationship again, until she has had Many years of therapy to love Herself, FIRST!

[LittleTexas]

also, having saved my virginity till marriage at 20, I can say I was Awful at it, for awhile...took a man later, after my divorce, to take his time with me, be patient, and teach me things..I had to be OPEN to learning though, and I think Iris' "crinkly /sneer lip face" would Never make it down that track. WHO wants to have sex with someone that makes That face, when you are simply talking about sexual positions; which you learn about from others in junior high, and Youre still a virgin, too!?

[gonecrackers]

57 minutes ago, AussieBabe said:

I wasn’t understanding why Iris was turning her nose up at questions about favourite position. She could’ve simply said I don’t know. 

She had no idea what her favorite position was; what a stupid question for a virgin, for one thing. But another, people are stating she had frigid type reactions to the questions & I think again that's from being upset they were doing the activities on camera when they had agreed not to - but - she was already on camera in the moment & needed to handle it. So yeah, even if they had discussed not talking about it, instead of the horrified act she could've just played it cool or even laughed about not knowing, etc. She didn't handle it well.

Edited September 20, 2019 by gonecrackers

[LittleTexas]

CG, I agree with you..didnt know they had not agreed not to talk on camera about it. The question was part of an exercise to get closer. She replied at one point to something  "aint gonna happen"; I think they had to make him feel it wasnt something she was even considering.  Honestly, it became as though ALL Iris was, was her Virginity.  

[lu1535]

Just to be clear, I have never liked Iris and her hyper self but I must admit I am worried for her. Now with her new title "divorced virgin" she is going to have men lining up to pop that cherry and IMO those men are pretty skeezy. I hope she is choosy.

[LittleTexas]

I have a feeling she wasnt a big dater, in the first place. But yes, she needs to be careful. NO one could have been kinder, more patient, and sweet to her, than Keith. Men like that don't come along often, and what's now left out there, could be Vewwwwy Scawwwy for her!

[Ilovepie]

Just now, gonecrackers said:

She had no idea what her favorite position was; what a stupid question for a virgin, for one thing. But another, people are stating she had frigid type reactions to the questions & I think again that's from being upset they were doing the activities on camera when they had agreed not to - but - she was already on camera in the moment & needed to handle it. So yeah, even if they had discussed not talking about it, instead of the horrified act she could've just played it cool or even laughed about not knowing, etc. She didn't handle it well.

I agree with all of this. I think the immature tag is precisely because of how she reacted to these situations. I think it's totally fine for her to not have an answer, but her "ewww" types of reactions are very juvenile. She should have just said "I guess we'll find out", or "I will tell you later since we agreed to keep this stuff private (wink wink)." Instead she wrinkled up her nose and hunched over like a child. There were many other ways she could have handled that situation that wouldn't have made her look so childish. I do agree it's stupid for the show to make a virgin answer sex position questions though.

I think she really missed the opportunity with the secret too. Her secret should have been that she was wanting to have sex with him, just after Decision Day. Even though the quarter story was more serious than what we viewers heard, it still completely miss the point of sharing a secret. Yes, it does tell something about Iris, but it doesn't foster intimacy or really say anything about who Iris is as a person. It's just something that happened to her, end of story.

I don't know if the show thought it was ok to cast a virgin just because Iris is so pretty, but I truly think it was shitty to do that to Keith. I don't love him, but I bet if he had been asked point blank if a virgin was a deal breaker the answer would have been yes. It was damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I truly hope she is the first and the last.

[thatsall]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

Me, everytime someone says Iris could have lost her virginity during this 8 week marriage experiment-

Excuse my frustration, but, doesn't it take two? Keith admitted he did not want to teach her anything sexually, & he knew she was a virgin from the wedding, so right from the wedding he shut down. I'm not saying Iris wasn't a pain in the ass which added insult to injury for him, but, he didn't want to be her first, so losing her virginity with Keith was never an option for her.

I do not sense that he was shut down from the wedding at all; it appeared he was taking it all in, and his increasing feeling that Iris was not the one for him in general came about from all the situations we've covered on this board. I submit a more accurate translation of your italicized phrase is Keith didn't want to be HER first and Keith shouldn't be villianized for living his truth. 

While Iris had many good qualities, had she not been such a human headache, eventually displaying her annoying habits and disposition, I find it difficult to see how she would make a well-suited partner to anyone other than a religiously motivated man, looking for a religious wife who outwardly looks good to others. IME, such people are willing to overlook a lot of issues in exchange for that type of spouse on display.

Edited September 20, 2019 by thatsall

[thatsall]

21 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

It was damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I truly hope she is the first and the last.

Spot-on. Keith was in a no-win situation.

[NannyBails]

My two cents on the Iris and Keith thing:  why go on a reality show if you work with small children and want to keep parts of your life private?  

AND if you really had agreed to not talk about and/or do certain things on film, when the production crew comes and says they have to film something you had agreed not to show on film, then you say, "Nope. Not gonna film that."    If it means that much to you to have your privacy, then drop out of the show and forfeit your paycheck.

Regarding Amber, maybe her way of coping after people in her life abandon her (mom, Matt) is to think they hate her, and that's why they did what they did. 

[lids]

The premise of the show is that you get matched by science (sigh) with someone who could be perfect for you. Despite any trials or incompatibles during the 8 weeks, you push through because it’s not a dating situation you can easily back out of, participants are supposed to be up for anything, willing to learn and change, and excited for the challenge of working toward a real functional marriage.

Recruits like Keith and Matt are just ignoring the premise. They agreed to the experiment until it wasn’t to their liking, then they silently noped out while their partners ran around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to salvage a relationship alone.

The whole “producers should have asked Keith if he would marry a virgin” is so sad to me. Marrying a virgin is not somehow worse than marrying a woman with abandonment issues who will cling to you so much that you can’t use your own bathroom. It’s not worse than marrying a woman with walls taller than The Empire State Building who hasn’t dated for 10 years. It’s certainly not worse than marrying a spoiled exhibitionist who has violent mood swings. The experts didn’t need to tell the men those things first. The men signed a contract that said that’d be open to working through obstacles.

Everybody has their quirks, on this show and in real life. In some cases, the partner on MAFS is open and really good at helping their mate through their issues (Bobby). In other cases, the mate just doesn’t care enough to want to help. Those non-committed people should have never signed up for the show. They share the blame for the failed relationship with the experts and their TV spouse.

I remember when Dr. Will from Big Brother said he was asked to audition to be The Bachelor. He said he wouldn’t do it because he didn’t want to end up being engaged to a hooker from Las Vegas. On MAFS, you could be matched with a virgin or a hooker from Las Vegas. And guess what? Either way, you are contractually obligated to attempt a real marriage with that chosen hooker/virgin. All future fame seekers on this show should accept that. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Iris keeps asking Keith the same question hoping for a different answer. Iris is Iris’ biggest problem, not her virginity per se. 

[gonecrackers]

40 minutes ago, thatsall said:

I do not sense that he was shut down from the wedding at all; it appeared he was taking it all in, and his increasing feeling that Iris was not the one for him in general came about from all the situations we've covered on this board. I submit a more accurate translation of your italicized phrase is Keith didn't want to be HER first and Keith shouldn't be villianized for living his truth. 

Definitely not villainized by me for that - he didn't have a good situation, unless he really fell head over heels for her & they actually worked out. That might've been a nice story, but she was irritating- & from what I've heard I don't believe he was on the show for the right reasons, therefore a virgin was especially a total no-go. Someone experienced might have either won him over, or been an 8 week 'marriage fling'.

I've said even before this season started, as soon as I heard a virgin was cast - "just, no".

[gonecrackers]

19 minutes ago, lids said:

The premise of the show is that you get matched by science (sigh) with someone who could be perfect for you. Despite any trials or incompatibles during the 8 weeks, you push through because it’s not a dating situation you can easily back out of, participants are supposed to be up for anything, willing to learn and change, and excited for the challenge of working toward a real functional marriage.

Recruits like Keith and Matt are just ignoring the premise. They agreed to the experiment until it wasn’t to their liking, then they silently noped out while their partners ran around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to salvage a relationship alone.

The whole “producers should have asked Keith if he would marry a virgin” is so sad to me. Marrying a virgin is not somehow worse than marrying a woman with abandonment issues who will cling to you so much that you can’t use your own bathroom. It’s not worse than marrying a woman with walls taller than The Empire State Building who hasn’t dated for 10 years. It’s certainly not worse than marrying a spoiled exhibitionist who has violent mood swings. The experts didn’t need to tell the men those things first. The men signed a contract that said that’d be open to working through obstacles.

Everybody has their quirks, on this show and in real life. In some cases, the partner on MAFS is open and really good at helping their mate through their issues (Bobby). In other cases, the mate just doesn’t care enough to want to help. Those non-committed people should have never signed up for the show. They share the blame for the failed relationship with the experts and their TV spouse.

I remember when Dr. Will from Big Brother said he was asked to audition to be The Bachelor. He said he wouldn’t do it because he didn’t want to end up being engaged to a hooker from Las Vegas. On MAFS, you could be matched with a virgin or a hooker from Las Vegas. And guess what? Either way, you are contractually obligated to attempt a real marriage with that chosen hooker/virgin. All future fame seekers on this show should accept that. 

Bravo - agreed on all points. 👏

[humbleopinion]

18 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

 Iris is Iris’ biggest problem....

and Keith doesn't have to worry about her one more  whit......once the (sing it with me in your best Tammy Wynette impersonation ) D-I-V-O-R-C-E goes through....

[Ilovepie]

34 minutes ago, lids said:

The whole “producers should have asked Keith if he would marry a virgin” is so sad to me. Marrying a virgin is not somehow worse than marrying a woman with abandonment issues who will cling to you so much that you can’t use your own bathroom. It’s not worse than marrying a woman with walls taller than The Empire State Building who hasn’t dated for 10 years. It’s certainly not worse than marrying a spoiled exhibitionist who has violent mood swings. The experts didn’t need to tell the men those things first. The men signed a contract that said that’d be open to working through obstacles.

Here's the problem with comparing those things though: If Gregg had tried but not been able to break down Deonna's walls, or if Jamie had not been into Elizabeth's "quirks", then no harm no foul. They leave unchanged and go their separate ways. The virgin thing is trickier. You have a girl who has "saved" herself for marriage. Let's say Keith has sex with her and then still decides to get a divorce. Iris cannot walk away the same. It's one and done, so to speak. I don't see these as comparable at all. In that scenario, Keith also doesn't come away unscathed; he will forever be the guy who deflowered her and left. It's an impossible situation.

[MajorNelson]

53 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

and Keith doesn't have to worry about her one more  whit......once the (sing it with me in your best Tammy Wynette impersonation ) D-I-V-O-R-C-E goes through....

it's all or N-O-T-H-I-N-G

as they remind us coming back from every commercial break.

[humbleopinion]

The lousy, nonsensical music they use to bridge segments on MAFS makes my ears bleed.....

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

The psychology behind why women tend to be much harder on other women is interesting - and voluminous. Generally speaking women feel as though they're in competition with other women. And because most people evaluate self worth relative to others, not based on an objective standard, one way to move ahead, then, is to find faulr with your competitors.  Because women don't feel in competition with men in that same way, it's much easier for women to give men the benefit of the doubt for the same things for which they'd rip other women apart.  Anyway, there's more to it than that, but it's interesting to ponder what it would look like if women are able at some point to collectively move past the competition etc. and direct those same resources to sincerely encouraging and supporting each other, instead. 

ETA: I think women unconsciously being harder on each other is significantly different than anyone - production, viewers, etc - having an intentionally developed and implemented misogynistic agenda. I And as I've said before, it seems to me that for whatever reason, we're pretty much equal opportunity snarkers here, at least.  (-:

I must thank you for beating me to this post because I was going to say pretty much the exact same thing!  Women are far harder on each other than on men.  And they're harder on each other than men are on women in general, as you said, because of the competition aspect.  Women are not socialized to work as teams.  Subconsciously we are given messages that pit us against other women for male attention or just attention in general.  Even things we don't normally associate with this do this - like makeup commercials, fashion, diet advertising, etc.  It even works this way at work with regard to promotions, positions, etc.  It goes very far back in our history too.  Women were always in competition with each other for men.  And it can be very mean spirited, "catty" and ruthless.  However when women are in situations where they have to compete with men, often they end up making a stupid mistake, usually in the "game play" aspect if not the product itself.  I see it on cooking competitions every week.  I doubt it's just my imagination.  It also doesn't help that I think the female judges are harder on their food, but that's another story altogether.  Mr. Yeah No thinks women are their own worst enemies.

In my career I was a high level executive assistant at Fortune 100 companies.  The few times I had a female boss they almost always acted like they were either threatened by me or were way too hard on me for things that male bosses would never even consider an issue.  I had one narcissistic boss that whenever I suggested something, like a cheaper flight or a better hotel room, acted threatened by it like how dare I presume to teach her something, after all she's the BOSS - meanwhile it was my JOB to do that in order to give her the best options and to take care of details that my boss didn't want to have to handle.  And I was well versed in how not to come off like a know-it-all or pushy, but that didn't matter.  She almost gave me a nervous breakdown before she left (thankfully only after a few months).  Meanwhile it was the very rare male boss that copped this kind of insecure, competitive attitude with me.  By the end of my career I would run the other way rather than work for a woman.  I know I was far from alone in this sentiment.  I knew a lot of female admins. that refused to work for other women.

I agree with you that we are equal opportunity snarkers here, but it does depend on the individual poster.  I try not to hold back the snark on the men on this show and try to bash both equally, LOL.  But it also depends on the season.  Some seasons a woman is atrocious and gets a lot of criticism.  Other seasons, it's a man.  So it can be hard to judge.

[psychoticstate]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I don't know if the show thought it was ok to cast a virgin just because Iris is so pretty, but I truly think it was shitty to do that to Keith. I don't love him, but I bet if he had been asked point blank if a virgin was a deal breaker the answer would have been yes. It was damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I truly hope she is the first and the last.

I agree with this.  Ultimately, the "experts" dropped the ball on this.  Since Iris was very open about being a virgin, they should have asked Keith, or whoever they were going to match her with, if that person was okay if his potential bride was a virgin.  

And maybe done a little more digging with Iris to see why she was still a virgin at 27.  Did she ever say?  I'm not knocking that decision at all.  If for religious reasons, fine and good.  But was Iris holding on to that like some kind of badge?  

I do understand why she and Keith would have privately agreed not to film any kind of intimacy due to their careers.  Clearly Amber should have been involved in that conversation.  Doesn't she teach middle school?  Not only do her current and future students know exactly where her tattoos are but also that she likes sex a lot and every day.  That should be unbelievably mortifying to her.  

I'd also like to know when her fellow teachers began telling her about Matt being a lying, cheating fuckwit.   Was he texting another woman or other women during their honeymoon?  Again, that would go a long way, IMO, toward explaining her seemingly irrational behavior about the separate bathrooms.  Personally, I think stuff started happening fairly early on and she kept it off camera until the epi where he didn't come home.  

[spunky]

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I thought he was quite clear actually. She was sexually immature (and immature in other ways but I don't think he said that). He didn't want to be the person to help her shape her sexuality. Bottom line - he got a divorce because he didn't want to be married to Iris. It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that.

No it does not. He's a dick.

Then why did he throw her a bone at the barbeque , making her think that there was still a chance? It appears as though he was recruited from a dating site and used this as an opportunity to launch his rap career. He released a single the day before the reunion aired. I find the timing very suspicious.

[Liberty]

44 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Doesn't she teach middle school?  Not only do her current and future students know exactly where her tattoos are but also that she likes sex a lot and every day.  That should be unbelievably mortifying to her.  

That did not seem to mortify Amber, but she did complain about being embarrassed in front of or by other teachers.

The teachers lounge probably gets really quiet when Amber walks in.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Liberty

[nr65000]

On 9/18/2019 at 5:53 PM, Ohwell said:

Yep.  Keith is done.  Thank goodness because Iris is out of her fucking mind..

I'm so embarrassed for Iris.  Iris is very immature and she needs to move on.  

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

  Subconsciously we are given messages that pit us against other women for male attention or just attention in general. 

"All the girls walk by, Dressed up for each other..."

[trimthatfat]

Bottom line, I don’t think Keith was into Iris period. Even if she hadn’t been a virgin, but had the same personality, he would have likely requested a divorce. But the fact that she was virgin who also seemed not to know herself sexually made the attraction less likely. I was reading this blog post from a sex therapist a while back and she listed several questions to help people figure out what they like sexually even if they’ve never had sex. Questions about how you like to touched when you’re masturbating, how you would communicate that, how you would let your partner explore that, etc. Iris doesn’t seem to want to think about any of the above. And that made it easier for Keith to say it wasn’t worth it. He really would be starting from scratch with Iris and that takes an incredible amount of patience, particularly if you aren’t that into the person.

[gonecrackers]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Here's the problem with comparing those things though: If Gregg had tried but not been able to break down Deonna's walls, or if Jamie had not been into Elizabeth's "quirks", then no harm no foul. They leave unchanged and go their separate ways. The virgin thing is trickier. You have a girl who has "saved" herself for marriage. Let's say Keith has sex with her and then still decides to get a divorce. Iris cannot walk away the same. It's one and done, so to speak. I don't see these as comparable at all. In that scenario, Keith also doesn't come away unscathed; he will forever be the guy who deflowered her and left. It's an impossible situation.

They would have to make sure that is a point taken into serious consideration in their 'extensive evaluations' 🙄. If it's off the table, it should be off. If someone says they wouldn't mind, then they'll have to deal if that's what they get.

I could say these people need to be careful what they say to be chosen, but I don't know what they're being asked, & we already know the Show has a bad history of ignoring preferences.

[lids]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Here's the problem with comparing those things though: If Gregg had tried but not been able to break down Deonna's walls, or if Jamie had not been into Elizabeth's "quirks", then no harm no foul. They leave unchanged and go their separate ways. The virgin thing is trickier. You have a girl who has "saved" herself for marriage. Let's say Keith has sex with her and then still decides to get a divorce. Iris cannot walk away the same. It's one and done, so to speak. I don't see these as comparable at all. In that scenario, Keith also doesn't come away unscathed; he will forever be the guy who deflowered her and left. It's an impossible situation.

Does this also apply to Matt abandoning a women who has abandonment issues? That kind of rejection can have long-term effects for someone like Amber. Should the show never cast anyone who has a deadbeat parent or even those who took the death of a parent very hard? Or should the cast have a “deal breaker” list of superficial things that a cast member might be scared about? That defeats the danger of the show and they’d be whittling down their potential cast to nothing.

Iris has said that she planned on having sex with her MAFS husband and she’s had oral sex with people who have since left her and she doesn’t appear to be scarred by it.  The new expert already went over with Iris that her husband won’t be taking her virginity. Iris would have authority to share her body. So anybody who would have looked at her as damaged or less-than after that would just be reinforcing sexist troupes and I don’t think most people would go along with it. The same would be true about people disparaging Keith for having sex with a virgin and still wanting a divorce. What would be their justification for putting the decision of 2 consenting adults just on his shoulders?

There’s also the option that Iris and any other virgin on future shows could get through the season not having sex and still stay married. It was a deal breaker for Keith, but that doesn’t mean all potential mates would have a problem with it.

The premise of the show is that with a good foundation, no relationship is impossible. I have issues with that so much, but I would never go on the show. The people who go on and clutch their pearls two weeks in annoy and fascinate me. I selfishly want them to explain what they thought was going to happen.

Edited September 20, 2019 by lids
Lol, why did I call them 90 Day Husbands? That’s my other trash show.

[qtpye]

5 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

They would have to make sure that is a point taken into serious consideration in their 'extensive evaluations' 🙄. If it's off the table, it should be off. If someone says they wouldn't mind, then they'll have to deal if that's what they get.

I could say these people need to be careful what they say to be chosen, but I don't know what they're being asked, & we already know the Show has a bad history of ignoring preferences.

One thing that really pissed me off was both Jaime and Beth lying about wanting children because it  increased their chances of getting picked for the show. They are lucky they both felt the same way.

[Lindz]

Iris... I am HERE..FOR..IT!! 😂 I agree with some of what she said & her reactions were justified. What qualities did the experts get right? "We serve the youth." WTF?! He sees her crying & doesn't attempt to comfort her AT ALL & when asked what he thinks about it, says she's "compassionate & caring & he appreciates that." WTF?!! Those aren't answering the questions!! WTF is WRONG with him?!! Her response didn't make sense either. You're crying cuz you care about him? Nah. You're crying cuz you're DEVASTATED!! It HURTS!! When he was more forthcoming, they actually started to get somewhere in understanding. She's right, you can't fix what you don't know & he didn't care & didn't want to try. He tried the bs "they're not negative traits" & she called it & said they were negative enough for him not to want to stay married. Establish her foundation of intimacy & NOT sex?? YEAH. RIGHT. It gets difficult to keep the bs straight! The COUPLE builds their own intimacy. The BETTER question is how did we NOT have that intimacy? & to his "you did your best" response, I'd ask, "HOW did you??" HOW did YOU try at this marriage?? & They still talk & go out, but never had those deep conversations addressing what happened??! WHY are they doing that?? It must be her trying to stay friends & him playing 'nice guy.' Her attitude probably shifted when she watched the show. She has a right be upset, he screwed the marriage by not telling her what he was thinking & feeling. DON'T HOLD BACK! Who tf cares?! BE REAL! BE OPEN & HONEST! Yeah. She's owning her status. It is what it is. Keep it moving. Unfortunately, she just focuses on what he did wrong & didn't acknowledge her own faults & behavior (that we saw) & that won't help her grow.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Lindz

[Lindz]

In the past, they asked potential spouses if they're okay with traits about a match. They asked Bobby about Danielle's age & Matt about Amber's height. So, they definitely should've asked Keith about a virgin. They don't want marriages to fail, I hope. 😂

[Lindz]

So Greg & Deonna actually TALKED & got to know each other, off-camera, DURING the experiment. GO FIGURE! & the dysfunctional bunch waited until AFTER the 8 weeks to get to know each other?? WOW

[AussieBabe]

My issue with the virginity thing is that it does matter in how one views sex and their attitude towards it. Remember when Greg was like I wouldn’t have wanted to be paired with a virgin? So, to some men it does matter. My line of thinking is that they should’ve asked Keith in the way that they asked Bobby if he was OK with being paired with someone a couple years older. What would’ve been the harm in asking? The field was already off balance before he even knew about her choice. It’s different when a couple takes a vow of abstinence or celibacy together vs. one person deciding that’s what the couple is going to do for some unspecified amount of time. Who was to say she would’ve been ready in six months or even a year? When he found out, he was already married and had to adjust his expectations and wrap his brain around the fact that he would have to teach this person everything. 

Right off the bat, there was a difference in world views. You have a sexual person who was being safe with a person who didn’t even seem to be in touch with her own sexuality via self-exploration or anything. We saw her cringe at two sexual/intimate fishbowl questions, but what if it was like 20 questions in a row where it was more squirming and twisted up faces? At 27–even without having engaged in penetration—she should’ve been able to have a mature conversation. Nobody said it had to be filthy like a scene out of 50 shades with requests for whips, chains, calling him daddy, etc. but a healthy dialogue about expectations or desires was reasonable.