S02.E01: Coming Home

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

When Delilah goes into labor, Eddie feels compelled to tell Katherine the truth about being the baby’s father. Meanwhile, Gary and Maggie struggle with living together post-cancer, and Rome and Regina continue to be at odds about having a baby of their own.

Season two premiere, airing Thursday, September 26, 2019, on ABC.

[break21]

I thought it was weak compared to last year's episodes.  I could see just about everything coming.  They need more characters and/or bring Jon back from the dead.   The scene where the doctor was upset because Delilah wasn't breast-feeding her baby was cringe-worthy.

[sking24450]

So I thought the premiere was fine borderline good for me.

I was worried based on something I saw in a preview that Katherine/Theo would be part of the group shot and maybe it still happens later but I am very pleased it didn't happen this episode. In fact I thought Katherine's actions were understandable and Grace Park sold her inability to even look at Eddie in her bedroom scene. Wasn't a huge fan of leaving Theo alone but I've decided to believe she waited till she saw Eddie's car and bounced because this isn't the 80s Katherine can't leave 7 year olds home alone.

Thought it was interesting that Gary knew this whole time but I still have problems with the way these friends just handwave this massive breach of trust. 

Rome/Regina is going to get messy unless he is serious about wanting them more than he wants a baby.

I genuinely dislike Delilah, even more than Eddie. It's mostly how shocked she looked at the idea that Katherine left. It's like Delilah has no thought that Katherine has feelings and that maybe hanging with her ex and his baby momma was not what any rational woman would do 3 days after finding out the truth.

Eddie I don't give a deep sigh because he and Kath3rine have chemistry but he made a whole ass baby with another woman. He was having unprotected sex with another woman and then lied to Katherine after the affair came out for months, how can she ever trust him? He and Delilah sharing secret talks about naming their child. Please someone find Katherine a new man and spin them off into a new show.

The lactation nurse was so over the top I didn't feel sorry for Delilah just resented their obvious attempt to make me feel sorry for her. But I'm tired of victim Delilah so ehh.

[cardigirl]

I am really unhappy that they had Katherine leave her son behind. As hurt as she must have been by the news, she’s never played as a mom who would walk away from her kid. I call shenanigans. 

And I hate that a therapist would call out a lactation specialist like that. Also, no lactation specialist I’ve ever met has been that harsh. Ugh, I hate it when they write those self righteous confrontations. 

[casachess]

FWIW, I've had six kids and while some of the lactation consultants I've had have been great, others have absolutely been 100% like the one in the show. One was actually WORSE. It got so bad that my daughter dropped more than 10% of her birth weight and we HAD to give her formula, and she ate the entire bottle in like, two seconds (because she was starving!!), and the LC watched and called her a brat. That entire scene actually rang very true to me -- the overbearing LC who cares more about feeding HER way bullying a tired, stressed mom who is in pain... BTDT.

Lactivisim is unfortunately a very real thing. 😕 

[Lady Calypso]

Welcome back, AMLT. I've....not missed you one bit, as it turns out. But this premiere? I mean, it wasn't AWFUL.

I guess they decided to fuck it with the Eddie/Delilah baby secret and have it out in the open with all the adult characters. Ok, fine. I'd rather they didn't drag that part out. But the kids still don't know so I can't wait for Sophie to find out Dear Mommy has been lying to her. Seriously, everyone gives Saint Delilah a pass on everything that I can't wait for that to change. Sophie better pull a Katherine and be super pissed.

Speaking of Katherine...she actually left. I feel bad for Eddie but I cannot blame Katherine for needing some time. However, not even calling her son? That's definitely harsh. However, I can see why; Katherine wouldn't be able to pull it together for Theo so she's trying to maintain her distance. She's depressed, I'm sure. But man, I hope next episode, Theo does get to talk to Katherine because this poor kid has to realize what's going on. He's not a stupid kid. 

But yeah, Eddie DID cause this to happen and he DID look guilty and not happy throughout most of the episode, which is well deserved. I do have to laugh that Eddie was way more concerned about Katherine's whereabouts than how Delilah was doing after the birth of the baby.

So, I'm still holding my breath for the shoe to drop, but it seems...it really seems like they dropped the Delilah/Eddie affair romance stuff and it looks like they'll stick to them as co-parents while Eddie works on his marriage. Or that's just the usual no chemistry stuff with the actors. Either way, the vibe with the two was way different than last season. They didn't seem romantic. Maybe the actors finally gave it up. Hopefully, DJ Nash follows the same path.

Regina vs Rome: who will give in to the child vs childless issue. I mean, it's obvious that it'll be Regina giving in and having a child. But I would be much more interested in seeing how Rome handles his desire to have a child without having one. Either they divorce or one of them gives in, and I don't see them getting a divorce...although, if Katherine/Eddie somehow work things out, then maybe they could divorce?

Gary/Maggie still work for me. I felt bad for Maggie when Gary threw her stuff away. Like, dude, why would you do that? That's HER stuff. Gawd. 

And PJ...steals some stuff and discovers that Jon is most likely his dad. Because who didn't see THAT coming?

Baby Charlotte IS cute, I'll give her that. But yeah, lactation specialist was over the top. I'm sure there are awful people like that out there, but I'm willing to bet most are more subtle in their judginess than that woman (ok, I HOPE that they are because I wouldn't be able to stand these people in real life). Plus, this show LOVES having either Maggie, Gary, or Rome give some self indulgent speech so...

I mean, some other characters do it too, but not like those three characters. And sometimes Delilah, but her speeches are often less successful. 

[ams1001]

46 minutes ago, break21 said:

The scene where the doctor was upset because Delilah wasn't breast-feeding her baby was cringe-worthy.

Ugh. Personally, I think a hospital should not employ someone as a lactation consultant who thinks that giving a baby a bottle is the worst thing you can do. Or who doesn't understand the many reasons someone might not be able to breastfeed. 

43 minutes ago, sking24450 said:

The lactation nurse was so over the top I didn't feel sorry for Delilah just resented their obvious attempt to make me feel sorry for her. But I'm tired of victim Delilah so ehh.

I didn't feel sorry for Delilah, just annoyed at the nurse character.

13 minutes ago, casachess said:

and the LC watched and called her a brat.

She called a newborn baby a brat...for...eating?!

12 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Welcome back, AMLT. I've....not missed you one bit, as it turns out. But this premiere? I mean, it wasn't AWFUL.

That's kinda where I'm at. I didn't even think about it until I saw a commercial earlier this week. I said at the end of last season I'd give season 2 a chance. Don't hate it so far.

14 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But man, I hope next episode, Theo does get to talk to Katherine because this poor kid has to realize what's going on. He's not a stupid kid. 

That bugged me a bit when they were making cookies and she was so obviously trying not to cry. He seems like the kind of kid who would notice mom was upset.

[SimoneS]

So I watched this, first time I made it through from beginning to end. Eh. The characters are just so manufactured for tv. Their reactions and behaviors are so unrealistic. Although I will concede that Katherine leaving her son and booking it did feel realistic. She had had enough and couldn't keep up the pretense any more. I like her the best. Too bad the showrunner won't let her move on with her life away from her shitty lying cheating husband. 

Grace Park is a good actress who deserves her own show, not to continue playing second fiddle to less talented actors on various shows because she is not White.  

[Empress Josephine]

Eddie is such a trash human being. He is whining about how he can't even call the baby his daughter, when two seconds earlier he didn't even care to be at the hospital. Honestly, he and Delilah belong together. That poor baby with parents like that... but yeah, he taints Katherine and she is well rid of him. But I am annoyed that the writers have Katherine leaving Theo.

[debraran]

I watched and felt there wasn't one big surprise. Everything seemed cheesy except that Katherine gets hit with a big surprise and acts "normally" Her crying was very realistic and while she was making cookies, I did slightly wonder why Theo seemed clueless. Eddie did too but that was something different. My kids would have noticed that type of crying. I felt for her but that was all the emotion the show evoked.

Vasectomy, please, I still feel the baby should have been Jon's and as Fogleman stated last year, the kids finding out will not be pretty. The photo of dads jersey etc was there to make that more evident with Sophie wanting "dad there too".  It would be much better having it Jon's. He took a friend with him and it was 2 years ago when his kids were teens? Please, his wife never mentions it. Something doesn't flow. Bad writing or a surprise later.

We knew PJ would wonder about Jon, we knew the baby was coming, we saw preview of Katherine and Eddie (if you peeked) we knew who would be PJ's therapist. Was there any real surprises?

I say for me, Katherine's acting was the best, the rest, "ehh". A bit of a let down, but I did end up really liking TIU.  : )

Edited September 27, 2019 by debraran

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Theo continues to be the sweetest and most adorable child ever. His excitement about getting to bake cookies ON A SCHOOL NIGHT was so cute.

Ugh, the lactation specialist was the worst. First of all, breastfeeding is not the be-all, end-all. I am sick of people acting like it's shameful if you feed your baby formula instead of breastfeeding. Secondly, if the lactation specialist wants Delilah to relax, how about not pressuring her and guilt tripping her? Many lactation specialists are kind and helpful, but there ARE some like the one seen on the show who act like not breastfeeding is the equivalent of shooting your kid up with heroin.

Once again, if Delilah and Eddie want to keep it a secret that he's Charlie's father, maybe don't talk about it in the house when Sophie and Danny are around and could walk by or overhear you!

The kid/no kid conflict with Rome and Gina is something that happens in real life so it would be nice to see the show handle it realistically. Unfortunately, I am 99% sure this is going to end with Regina getting pregnant.

I understand why Katherine left. She was clearly having a hard time keeping it together while making cookies with Theo. She knew she was going to need time to process everything without pretending everything was fine in front of Theo. It's not like she left him in a burning building. She knew that Eddie was on his way home and she needed to be able to let down that wall and cry/scream/react to the news that Eddie is the father of Delilah's baby without upsetting Theo.

7 hours ago, sking24450 said:

Eddie I don't give a deep sigh because he and Kath3rine have chemistry but he made a whole ass baby with another woman. He was having unprotected sex with another woman

Eddie and Delilah were using condoms. In S1.E6, when Delilah told Eddie that she was pregnant, he specifically mentioned that the condom broke one time.

Edited September 27, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[debraran]

3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Theo continues to be the sweetest and most adorable child ever. His excitement about getting to bake cookies ON A SCHOOL NIGHT was so cute.

Ugh, the lactation specialist was the worst. First of all, breastfeeding is not the be-all, end-all. I am sick of people acting like it's shameful if you feed your baby formula instead of breastfeeding. Secondly, if the lactation specialist wants Delilah to relax, how about not pressuring her and guilt tripping her? Many lactation specialists are kind and helpful, but there ARE some like the one seen on the show who act like not breastfeeding is the equivalent of shooting your kid up with heroin.

That was over the top, no one would act like that today and how she was helping her was. I know they can't show the breast but having all those people around and not caring if the baby ate, seemed odd. I had 3 kids including twins, had very pro active lactation consultants (which I didn't keep in touch with) but that was odd.

She also could have pumped that great first milk and given breast milk in a bottle. I'm sure a pump would have worked, never had an issue with that latching on. ; )

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 minute ago, debraran said:

She also could have pumped that great first milk and given breast milk in a bottle. I'm sure a pump would have worked, never had an issue with that latching on.

When Danny suggested Delilah try feeding the baby with a bottle, the lactation specialist snapped, "That is the worst thing you can give a baby!"

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Danny suggested Delilah try feeding the baby with a bottle, the lactation specialist snapped, "That is the worst thing you can give a baby!"

Yes, they don't want to introduce bottle too soon but her milk can be saved and some babies don't care. My kids were so so with bottle at first, my friends took whatever milk came out of, breast and bottle, lol.  Just a little over the top to make a point. Maggie was right but that unbelievable scenario was to set up her speech to educate that breasts don't make a mom.

Edited September 27, 2019 by debraran

[alexvillage]

7 hours ago, casachess said:

FWIW, I've had six kids and while some of the lactation consultants I've had have been great, others have absolutely been 100% like the one in the show. One was actually WORSE. It got so bad that my daughter dropped more than 10% of her birth weight and we HAD to give her formula, and she ate the entire bottle in like, two seconds (because she was starving!!), and the LC watched and called her a brat. That entire scene actually rang very true to me -- the overbearing LC who cares more about feeding HER way bullying a tired, stressed mom who is in pain... BTDT.

Lactivisim is unfortunately a very real thing. 😕 

WTF? I don't have kids but I have a little bit of common sense to understand the why/why not of lactation and definitely to see the absurdity of a hospital worker calling a newborn a brat. I mean, I don't even need common sense, just basic humanity. UGH!

32 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Danny suggested Delilah try feeding the baby with a bottle, the lactation specialist snapped, "That is the worst thing you can give a baby!"

Sure, the worst is a bottle, even if the baby starves. 

And I totally believe there are people in hospitals doing all kinds of terrible things. I actually see this happening with disabled people, when they are offered end of life "care" not because they are terminal, but because things get complicated. Not to mention the denial of care. By doctors and nurses alike.

[bybrandy]

I can think of worse things to give a baby.  Vodka, arsenic, Flint water.  

But this lactation specialist exists.  She does. She does in this day and age.  A friend had a woman like this at the hospital just about 18 months ago... at a "baby friendly" hospital.  They have no formula at the hospital and if mom is determined to formula feed she has to bring the formula from home.  

[kazza]

I really hope we learn on a later episode that Delilah has some dirt on every one of her friends, because there is no way people would be so forgiving and borderline worshipping in real life. (Sorry, Maggie, Delilah has been a *terrible* mother from the time you met her. Gary was a better parent in the past year.) 

• Regina and Rome's child/no-child stalemate - reasonable, real-life story.
• Katherine's utter heartbreak and wanting to hide in a cave - completely relatable. 
• Maggie's fear of a relapse - understandable (and subtly well-played)

Finding out that you've been deceived into thinking that your friend was pregnant by her recently deceased husband rather than by your other friend with whom she had an affair (and is now unsurprisingly going through his own marital troubles) and NOT BATTING AN EYELASH is suspended reality.

It has been (clearly) a long time since I've had such a dislike for a character. Writers, help us out here. Bring some sense into the Delilah character. 

[luna1122]

Ugh, these people. I kind of hate them all. And they are all up in each other's business, like, WAY too much. People getting all butt-hurt about not knowing someone else's personal business is how you handle friendships in high school, not in grown up, forty something folks' lives. It's creepy. They're creepy.

Did they have Katherine leave Theo just to make us not like her or root for her a lot more than we do the others? I do not believe she would have ever done that. And she deserves so much better than Eddie, no matter how regretful and pretty he is.

Maggie looked rockin' with her pink hair and that cool dress.

ETA: if they DID want us to not like Katherine as much, it didn't work, she's the only character I actually DO consistently like. But having her leave without telling Theo, and not speaking him to him while she's gone...not in character, not nice, stupid writing.

Edited September 27, 2019 by luna1122

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, Empress Josephine said:

Eddie is such a trash human being. He is whining about how he can't even call the baby his daughter, when two seconds earlier he didn't even care to be at the hospital. Honestly, he and Delilah belong together. That poor baby with parents like that... but yeah, he taints Katherine and she is well rid of him. But I am annoyed that the writers have Katherine leaving Theo.

Honestly, when he said that, it felt like the writers had just remembered that Eddie had a new kid. Since, for all of the other scenes in the episode, he was way more concerned with Katherine. So it felt disjointed and another reason why I wish they had found a way to make the kid Jon's baby. They've all but confirmed to have dropped Eddie/Delilah entirely (I probably won't be convinced until the series ends and they're not together) and that's obviously changed from their previous plans. So it's just going to be disjointed with the conflicting storylines with Eddie. 

15 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Did they have Katherine leave Theo just to make us not like her or root for her a lot more than we do the others? I do not believe she would have ever done that. And she deserves so much better than Eddie, no matter how regretful and pretty he is.

I don't think so. I think they wanted to show that what Eddie did really hurt her. I assume Eddie also realizes that Katherine would have never left Theo if it wasn't for HIS actions.

Again, they did establish that Katherine was only gone two days, not two weeks, so I have hope that she'll return. I just wish they had allowed her to at least text Theo once or twice.

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Sure, the worst is a bottle, even if the baby starves.

There was a Law & Order episode involving such a scenario. Parents were arrested because their baby starved to death, and it turned out the baby wasn't getting enough to eat because of the evil lactation consultant who convinced the mom that breastfeeding was absolutely necessary no matter what, even though she was having trouble doing it.

2 hours ago, bybrandy said:

But this lactation specialist exists.  She does. She does in this day and age.  A friend had a woman like this at the hospital just about 18 months ago... at a "baby friendly" hospital.  They have no formula at the hospital and if mom is determined to formula feed she has to bring the formula from home.  

So "baby-friendly" means not having food on hand even in case an emergency? Good to know. What do they do with preemies who can't breastfeed or when the mother has severe complications or dies? Or do they just send those babies somewhere else? (My best friend tried with her daughter but gave up within a couple months, I think; maybe less. It just wasn't working for them. She didn't even bother with her son. And the hospital had little bottles of formula for him. They're 7 and almost-5 now and they're both just fine.)

12 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Maggie looked rockin' with her pink hair and that cool dress.

I liked her pink hair. Have a slight problem with her perfect eyebrows and otherwise bald head. (Just like Gary's full manly-man beard remaining intact during chemo.) I liked that Gary joined her in the shower because he knew she was going to be freaking out and checking herself for signs of more cancer and let her know she's not alone.

[Guest]

The lactation specialist really needed to be a guy so he could be twirling his mustache.  Otherwise, they aren't quite the over the top villain.  Such an over the top depiction of a horrible profession when that profession is generally marked by very gentle, kind people as they have to be to deal with such an emotional, vulnerable time. But even though she was so far out of line, Maggie was so far beyond the bounds of acceptable that it took me out of the scene.  Tell her she needs to leave, fine. But to yell at her and then when she tries to talk to repeat that you told her to shut up? Grow up.  Or don't. Because by being an immature brat, you fit in better with a lot of this group. 

Such as Delilah. Oh, she's a victim. She's such a good mom. Blah blah blah.

I still like Katherine.  She didn't leave Theo alone for long and I don't think she planned on leaving him with Eddie for too long - just a few days to process things.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, the lactation specialist was the worst. First of all, breastfeeding is not the be-all, end-all. I am sick of people acting like it's shameful if you feed your baby formula instead of breastfeeding. Secondly, if the lactation specialist wants Delilah to relax, how about not pressuring her and guilt tripping her? Many lactation specialists are kind and helpful, but there ARE some like the one seen on the show who act like not breastfeeding is the equivalent of shooting your kid up with heroin.

"Bonding" with the baby isn't going to happen if the mother is too stressed out. I wasn't able to "bond" until I told all the experts to screw themselves and started using formula - which not only made me relaxed enough to enjoy feeding her, but also made her gain back the weight (nearly a pound) she'd lost (she was under six pounds in the first place). I borrowed an industrial strength pump from LaLeche League (they are hilarious - the pumps, I mean) and even so never got more than 2 ounces at once.

I got plenty of shade and a lecture from the woman at the League when I returned it. But hey, my kid was thriving - and she doesn't have any allergies or health issues to speak of 30 years later.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I think this show would be 100% better without Delilah and they should have gotten rid of her after last season. Maybe move her to France so she could be near her parents and they could help out with her kids?

I hate how Delilah seems incapable of doing ANYTHING for herself. She can't handle setting up a nursery and getting a crib before her baby is born? Was it a surprise pregnancy or did she have 9 months to plan for it? How is it her friends responsibility to do absolutely everything for her? And they paid for the crib! What?!? Even after they did all that for her, she STILL got a baby shower with more gifts! What the hell. I think setting up the entire nursery and buying a crib is above and beyond for a baby shower gift.

I like all the other couples but if Regina ends up pregnant and having the kid, I will be so disappointed. I would rather Rome leaves her to have a baby with someone else.

I don't think Delilah "leaving" Theo was that big of a deal. I bet she goes on business trips from time to time and he's fine. I don't think she planned to be gone that long and I'm sure she'd phone Theo if it ended up being awhile.

OK, so now PJ is not only friends with Rome but he's seeing Maggie for therapy. Are those both accidental connections or what? I can't remember.

And I gotta say, I love how PJ stops to take a call from Rome WHILE HE'S BURGLARING Delilah's house. Maybe just let it go to voice mail? I can see why he'd take the photo album but why did he want the sweatshirt? Because it belonged to his biological father's friend? That makes no sense to me.

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

OK, so now PJ is not only friends with Rome but he's seeing Maggie for therapy. Are those both accidental connections or what? I can't remember.

I was wondering that myself. I didn't get the sense that Maggie recognized him (and if she actually knew who he was, professional ethics would mean she should be referring him to someone else, most likely), but he probably saw her and learned she's a therapist (since he's clearly been doing some spying) so I suspect it's not a coincidence that he went to see her. (That said, I kinda forgot who he was when we first saw him stealing stuff from the house. And was Jon's sweater at the house or did he break into Gary's place, too?)

So is Jon going to turn out to be his real father? I don't get why his mom would be so adamant to keep him from knowing his dad died on 9/11, like there's some kind of shame in that, if Jon's friend is indeed his father. (And if he's not, him being gone makes it that much less likely that anyone would find out.)

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I think this show would be 100% better without Delilah and they should have gotten rid of her after last season. Maybe move her to France so she could be near her parents and they could help out with her kids?

I hate how Delilah seems incapable of doing ANYTHING for herself. She can't handle setting up a nursery and getting a crib before her baby is born? Was it a surprise pregnancy or did she have 9 months to plan for it? How is it her friends responsibility to do absolutely everything for her? And they paid for the crib! What?!? Even after they did all that for her, she STILL got a baby shower with more gifts! What the hell. I think setting up the entire nursery and buying a crib is above and beyond for a baby shower gift.

I like all the other couples but if Regina ends up pregnant and having the kid, I will be so disappointed. I would rather Rome leaves her to have a baby with someone else.

I don't think Delilah "leaving" Theo was that big of a deal. I bet she goes on business trips from time to time and he's fine. I don't think she planned to be gone that long and I'm sure she'd phone Theo if it ended up being awhile.

OK, so now PJ is not only friends with Rome but he's seeing Maggie for therapy. Are those both accidental connections or what? I can't remember.

And I gotta say, I love how PJ stops to take a call from Rome WHILE HE'S BURGLARING Delilah's house. Maybe just let it go to voice mail? I can see why he'd take the photo album but why did he want the sweatshirt? Because it belonged to his biological father's friend? That makes no sense to me.

Didn't the jersey/sweatshirt belong to Jon? The family gave it to Gary, but it was originally Jon's. Yeah, how did PJ/Carl get so easily into Delilah's house? I don't think it's been established, but I am sure that PJ getting to know Rome and Maggie isn't a coincidence.

And YEAH...why was the nursery not set up??? Why no crib? WhyTF did the friends have to BUY her a crib? Ugh, again. I hate these people.

[izabella]

I had forgotten who PJ was, so thanks to the posters here for reminding me. 

The mad rush for a crib was ridiculous.  Newborns don't use cribs for a long time - bassinet please.  WTF was Delilah doing for 9 months that she wasn't the least bit prepared for a baby?  I hate that woman with the fire of a thousand nuns.

My heart broke for Katherine.  She just keeps getting the worst dumped on her by Eddie.  I hope she tells him to fuck off and go be with his baby mama, or no one, but definitely nowhere near her.

I still can't warm up to Maggie.  And I'm pissed on Regina's behalf because Rome is not going to be ok without a baby so the writers are going to make her have one.  Please dog, don't give her an oopsie pregnancy at least.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

There was a Law & Order episode involving such a scenario. Parents were arrested because their baby starved to death, and it turned out the baby wasn't getting enough to eat because of the evil lactation consultant who convinced the mom that breastfeeding was absolutely necessary no matter what, even though she was having trouble doing it.

So "baby-friendly" means not having food on hand even in case an emergency? Good to know. What do they do with preemies who can't breastfeed or when the mother has severe complications or dies? Or do they just send those babies somewhere else? (My best friend tried with her daughter but gave up within a couple months, I think; maybe less. It just wasn't working for them. She didn't even bother with her son. And the hospital had little bottles of formula for him. They're 7 and almost-5 now and they're both just fine.)

I liked her pink hair. Have a slight problem with her perfect eyebrows and otherwise bald head. (Just like Gary's full manly-man beard remaining intact during chemo.) I liked that Gary joined her in the shower because he knew she was going to be freaking out and checking herself for signs of more cancer and let her know she's not alone.

Baby Friendly is actually a designation given by the WHO.  It does NOT mean that the hospital doesn't stock formula for babies that need it.  There are lots of moms who cannot nurse for a variety of reasons. There are babies who cannot receive breast milk sometimes.  At no time should anyone ever be asked to bring formula from home to use while in the hospital, that is not part of the deal and most hospitals wouldn't permit babies who were inpatients to be fed with any formula but what was in their stock.  Baby Friendly does mean that that particular hospital isn't handing out the free samples of formula in the cute little diaper bags to all the new moms or the coupons for a free can of formula at the supermarket.  And no 'convenient' bottles of formula tucked under the baby crib so a frustrated breastfeeding mom can just open it up and feed the baby.

There are ways to feed breast milk to newborns without using a bottle.  Amongst other things, the kid's stomach is about the size of a grape and holds about a teaspoon of milk at a time.  Even breastfed babies don't need much to keep them full.  They actually are able to sip from a small medicine cup (like the thing that comes on the top of Nyquil), or from a syringe or even by finger feeding (wearing a glove, mom dips her finger into a cup of milk and lets the baby suck from it).  Easy peasy and every lactation consultant should be aware of these tricks.

I deliver babies in a Baby Friendly hospital and any lactation consultant who spoke to a parent the way the one on the show did to Delilah would be reported and could lose her job.  While I am sure there are bad lactation consultants, the majority are very competent, caring and empathetic.

[Nancybeth]

I assumed that PJ was sort of "stalking" Jon's family and trying to infiltrate his circle -- maybe not in a harmful way, but I think he assumes Jon is his father and he wants to learn more about him.

I don't mind Katherine leaving to go to her mother's house but I DID mind her actually leaving Theo HOME ALONE before Eddie got there. I don't know, wait till the next day? That struck me as weird and terrifying for a kid. What if Eddie got delayed or something??

I love Gary and Maggie and really, would just take a whole show about them and Rome and Gina and Delilah and the kids and the whole mystery could go away forever.

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, Nancybeth said:

I don't mind Katherine leaving to go to her mother's house but I DID mind her actually leaving Theo HOME ALONE before Eddie got there. I don't know, wait till the next day? That struck me as weird and terrifying for a kid. What if Eddie got delayed or something??

Katherine got Theo to call Eddie to get him to come home. I believe he had even told Theo that he would be home in ten minutes. And then Katherine left just before Eddie got home. So she was being responsible by first getting Eddie to come home so he could take care of Theo.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

So is Jon going to turn out to be his real father? I don't get why his mom would be so adamant to keep him from knowing his dad died on 9/11, like there's some kind of shame in that, if Jon's friend is indeed his father. (And if he's not, him being gone makes it that much less likely that anyone would find out.)

I don't think Jon is his real father, but PJ is drawing an understandable conclusion based on his limited data. Could very well be wrong though.

I think the reason they're keeping him from knowing has more to do with the man who's been his father all this time. From what I remember, he's a bit controlling and potentially violent, and my vague understanding is that he's the one who doesn't want the boy to know, out of pride and possessiveness more than anything else.

[sinkwriter]

Yeah, but she still left before Eddie got there (at least they made it seem that way), so she did leave her kid alone. And something could have happened to Eddie along the way. He could have been delayed, stuck in traffic, got in a car accident, you just never know. So for her to leave before Eddie got there was not great.

(I also didn't buy that she would do that. Maybe wait in her car until she saw Eddie pull up, and then leave, but to leave just knowing Eddie's maybe 10 min. away didn't seem like something Katherine would do.)

[bybrandy]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

There was a Law & Order episode involving such a scenario. Parents were arrested because their baby starved to death, and it turned out the baby wasn't getting enough to eat because of the evil lactation consultant who convinced the mom that breastfeeding was absolutely necessary no matter what, even though she was having trouble doing it.

So "baby-friendly" means not having food on hand even in case an emergency? Good to know. What do they do with preemies who can't breastfeed or when the mother has severe complications or dies? Or do they just send those babies somewhere else? (My best friend tried with her daughter but gave up within a couple months, I think; maybe less. It just wasn't working for them. She didn't even bother with her son. And the hospital had little bottles of formula for him. They're 7 and almost-5 now and they're both just fine.)

I liked her pink hair. Have a slight problem with her perfect eyebrows and otherwise bald head. (Just like Gary's full manly-man beard remaining intact during chemo.) I liked that Gary joined her in the shower because he knew she was going to be freaking out and checking herself for signs of more cancer and let her know she's not alone.

Read more  

Baby Friendly is actually a designation given by the WHO.  It does NOT mean that the hospital doesn't stock formula for babies that need it. 

I am aware of the WHO designation and I am sure not all "baby friendly" hospitals are the same.  But I do know that my friend was told that they would lose their "baby friendly" accrediation if they had formula on site and that if she wanted to give her baby formula she had to provide it  I know this is the case because I was in the room when it happened and I schlepped out to the store to get some formula.  Was this hospital staff member wrong about the rules?  I don't know.  Was there formula in a case somewhere in case of emergency that they were keeping from my friend in an attempt to intimidate her into breast feeding?  Maybe.  But it wasn't offered.  She was flat out told (and again I witnessed this) but more than one person if she insisted on formula feeding that she had to provide the formula and they couldn't or wouldn't.    

I at the time assumed this was a couple of members of staff who had their wires crossed, but she has talked to every mom she knows who has had a baby there in the past 18 months (again just the ones she knows from local mom groups or knew previously) and she has had other moms share similar stories.  This hospital may have its protocol wrong from what WHO expects it to.  But this is a well rated hospital in a major city.  

5 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

Yeah, but she still left before Eddie got there (at least they made it seem that way), so she did leave her kid alone.

She left after Theo had already talked to Eddie and Eddie had said he would be there in 10 minutes.    And for all we know she parked where she could watch the road to make sure Eddie did show up.  

I don't love this move but I understand it and I don't think she left Theo in any sort of danger.  IF she doesn't come back for weeks or months that will be a different thing but needing a few days?  Yeah.   She's earned that.

Edited September 27, 2019 by bybrandy

[bybrandy]

3 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

(I also didn't buy that she would do that. Maybe wait in her car until she saw Eddie pull up, and then leave, but to leave just knowing Eddie's maybe 10 min. away didn't seem like something Katherine would do.)

We don't know she didn't wait in her car up the street to make sure Eddie turned up.

[chitowngirl]

The guys ordered the crib from the Warehouse Club/IKEA, didn’t pick it, and it got resold. If only there was another store in Boston that sold cribs...🤔. 

[Mrs Shibbles]

I loved Roman's response to finding out Eddie was the baby's father.  "I am definitely not paying for 1/3 of this crib now" or something like that. 

[sinkwriter]

48 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

And for all we know she parked where she could watch the road to make sure Eddie did show up.  

44 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

We don't know she didn't wait in her car up the street to make sure Eddie turned up.

True. It's just that they didn't show it, so what they did present made me say, "WTF are you doing, Katherine?!"

I don't deny her needing to get away. I wholeheartedly agree with that. I just think they doctored up this melodrama where she leaves her son (and doesn't talk to him on the phone or anything after she's gone so he's clearly confused and waiting for her to come home again) so that it will be super dramatic when the reality of the situation would have been dramatic enough.

It's like the whole thing with Delilah and that lactation nurse. That was ridiculously doctored up so Maggie could make that melodramatic speech. (And possibly to get us feeling bad for Delilah, but... that's just not going to happen, LOL.)

[SpiritSong]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The kid/no kid conflict with Rome and Gina is something that happens in real life so it would be nice to see the show handle it realistically. Unfortunately, I am 99% sure this is going to end with Regina getting pregnant.

I understand why Katherine left. She was clearly having a hard time keeping it together while making cookies with Theo. She knew she was going to need time to process everything without pretending everything was fine in front of Theo. It's not like she left him in a burning building. She knew that Eddie was on his way home and she needed to be able to let down that wall and cry/scream/react to the news that Eddie is the father of Delilah's baby without upsetting Theo.

Of course Regina will end up pregnant, because women who do not want children having them is a good thing, according to every writer of tv scripts ever. And that is the sole purpose of being female, right? Women serve no other reason for existing and clearly contribute nothing to the world unless they push more people into an already overpopulated world. /s

I understand Katherine leaving also and not wanting to upset Theo by crying in front of him. But she doesn't seem to care that abandoning him for days without even a phone call might upset him. How do you just disappear on your kid with no word for days? That made no sense to me. Make up a story if you have to, but don't just disappear on your child. She should be calling him (not her scumbag husband) at least once a day.

Edited September 27, 2019 by SpiritSong

[HazelEyes4325]

I think it's telling that of the eleventy million shows that aired last night that planned to watch, this one was at the bottom of my priority list.  In fact, I probably wouldn't have had a chance to see it when I did (I just finished) if my husband hadn't asked me to wait on another show so we could watch it together.

First off, shame on you, DJ Nash!  The whole lactation expert was another egregious example of his irresponsible story telling!  I'm not saying that there is no LE like that, but they are definitely few and far between (and probably not employed, at least for very long).  But, if a first time, nervous mom-to-be sees this, what does this do to her?  It scares her about the intentions of someone who will be there to help her.  Why was this even there (besides to give Maggie a chance to yell...seriously, how is she even a therapist???)?  If Nash wanted to show Delilah "judged" as a mother--which she should be, but not for this--there were more realistic and, frankly, more effective ways to do it.  I mean, forget the lactaction specialist and hello Mommy Groups!  And did they imply that Delilah wasn't going to be discharged until she could successfully nurse?  If so, more bullshit.

I was actually in Delilah's position--my first child was an expert nurser from day one, but my second child was not.  I remember my LE shrugging and say, "It's harder for some babies.  You can always do formula."  And, yeah, it was a little stressful at first--until I remembered the much higher rates of children failing to thrive before the advent of formula.  This is not a new thing at all and has happened since, well, forever.  It just used to be that babies were able to nurse or they died.  Now we have options.

That whole thing made my blood boil because it was just damn irresponsible on Nash's part.  It ranked up there with the very cavalier way they handled Rome's depression treatment, which I found just as dangerous.

Okay, off that particular soapbox...

I know Gary is supposed to be the funny one, but I find myself laughing far more at Rome's lines.  His delivery is perfect--far less gimmicky than Gary's.  In fact, I find Gary more likable when he's not being snarky.

I don't have any confidence whatsoever that the Rome/Regina baby issue will be handled well.  I think, for the show, there are two outcomes: Regina gets pregnant or they split up.  However, I would like to see a third path, which was actually the basis for one of my favorite memoirs.  Rome realizes that he will never be a father in the traditional sense, realizes how important Regina and their relationship is, and finds another avenue of fulfillment (FYI, the book is The Voluntourist by Ken Budd and in it Budd channels his desire to be a father into volunteering around the world...not that I think Rome should do *that,* but realize that we play the hand we have and find something else).

I'm not as bothered by Katherine leaving as some are.  I get that she was really at her breaking point.  I do think that both Park and Giuntoli played their parts very well, although I'm having trouble believing Theo in all this.  Of course, all these kids are just so "precious" in this show and Theo is the least annoying, so I can handwave that away.

Oh Delilah, it IS possible for you to be even worse in my book!  I call bullshit on the crib thing.  My daughter (and my son, but different story) was born three weeks early, and our OB told us that we had at least 4 weeks to go before she'd be here.  And we had a crib.  We didn't have diapers or a pack and play, but we had a crib.  We also didn't use a crib for months.  Despite being a widow, Delilah has more help than any mother I've seen and she still does nothing for herself.

Also,  she is creating all sort of shit with this paternity thing.  The best thing would have been her to be honest from the beginning, but Delilah is incapable of honesty.  Now, everyone except the kids know the truth but they all think it is a good idea?  How?  If she was determined to lie about the paternity, I hate to say it but the best thing would have been for her to never tell Eddie that he was the father.  She has now brought in FIVE other people to her lie just so her daughter won't be mad at her...and we know that since FIVE other people are in on it, the kids will find out soon...probably when they see the video of Eddie being there for the delivery.

Here's my thing with Delilah: the problem isn't that she's a bad person, far past the point of being a "flawed human."  The problem is that she's not a villain.  Now, I understand that this isn't a show that needs villains and heroes, but she's so horrible, and has faced NO consequences and takes NO responsibility for anything.  And, the gaslighting that she's some kind of saint, is killing this show.

Edited September 27, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[ams1001]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Didn't the jersey/sweatshirt belong to Jon? The family gave it to Gary, but it was originally Jon's. Yeah, how did PJ/Carl get so easily into Delilah's house? I don't think it's been established, but I am sure that PJ getting to know Rome and Maggie isn't a coincidence.

They gave Gary the red sweater, and he was looking for it at his home (I thought he sort of implied he thought Maggie hid it because he threw out her meds).

When Regina was trying to rush the kids out to go to the hospital, Sophie said something about not finding the house keys, and Regina said something about using the hide-a-key, so I'm guessing he found that and used it to get in. (Though they also made a point of showing Danny setting the alarm, so I don't know how he got past that. Unless they're just not consistent in setting it and he got lucky.)

Edited September 27, 2019 by ams1001

[tennisgurl]

Oh great, another season of Delilah, everyone's favorite damsel in distress and "most wonderful person ever apparently" being coddled and protected by everyone, no matter how many crappy things she actually does. So great! The more times they go on about how wonderful of a mom Delilah is, I end up just snickering. She is just a wet blanket, and normally I would feel bad for her, losing her husband like that less than a year ago, but she is just so selfish and needy, it makes it hard to feel bad for her. Plus, as I said before, she does awful things, and no one every calls her out, they just out out of their way to pat her on the head. 

Anyway, welcome back to melodrama central! I guess I give the show some credit, the baby was born without complications and without much muss or fuss, it resisted the urge to make it a difficult labor or for the baby to be sick or something. Everything else though? Me saying some variation of "who acts like this?!" about thirty times an episode. 

 Katherine wanting to fuck off for awhile is a pretty reasonable response to finding out that her estranged husband knocked up his mistress, but I find it rather out of character that she would leave Theo without even saying goodbye. Katherine can do better than all of these people that worship the woman who was banging her husband, I hope she comes back to Theo soon. 

They seem to have basically scrapped Delilah/Eddie, and thank God because that was a terrible idea. Like the writers caught on that the audience might not be as forgiving of cheating as the writers and characters are, and they changed what might have been the original plan. i totally think that Eddie, already all "I cant call her my daughter wa wa wahhhhh" about baby Charlie is going to spill the beans, and Delilahs kids are going to be so hurt.

[ams1001]

Was there some significance to the name Charlotte/Charlie that I'm forgetting?

[dargosmydaddy]

5 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Was there some significance to the name Charlotte/Charlie that I'm forgetting?

They said Charlotte was Delilah's mom's name.

[HazelEyes4325]

6 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Was there some significance to the name Charlotte/Charlie that I'm forgetting?

Charlotte is Delilah's mom's name.  Other than that, not much.

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 Katherine wanting to fuck off for awhile is a pretty reasonable response to finding out that her estranged husband knocked up his mistress, but I find it rather out of character that she would leave Theo without even saying goodbye. Katherine can do better than all of these people that worship the woman who was banging her husband, I hope she comes back to Theo soon. 

To me, the only weird part was that she didn't tell Theo she was leaving...she just gave him her iPad.  Actually, I don't think it is weird that she did that--she was pretty messed up--but that Theo, at least what we saw, didn't think anything of it.  I mean, does his mother usually leave at night, in the midst of making cookies, for a huge court case that she had not ever seemed to work on?  Theo is a smart kid, but I think even a run of the mill kid could figure out that something was not right.

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

They seem to have basically scrapped Delilah/Eddie, and thank God because that was a terrible idea. Like the writers caught on that the audience might not be as forgiving of cheating as the writers and characters are, and they changed what might have been the original plan. i totally think that Eddie, already all "I cant call her my daughter wa wa wahhhhh" about baby Charlie is going to spill the beans, and Delilahs kids are going to be so hurt.

I don't think that Eddie is going to spill the beans, but I can see a scenario where Delilah's kids, who have already asked about Katherine and Theo, wonder why she's gone and it all comes out that way.  I will say that seeing those two blow up at their mom might be the most satisfying thing that could happen.

There was a bit that just doesn't sit right with me and that's Gary knowing the whole time that Eddie was the father.  Honestly, I think it is just some really sloppy retconning, but here's why it doesn't work for me:

1- I cannot believe, in any way, that Gary, if he really did know the entire time, wouldn't mention, allude to, whatever until this moment.  I might actually have bought it if it had been Rome, but not Gary. 

2 - I also cannot believe that Gary would know that Jon had a vasectomy, but Rome and Eddie wouldn't...for two reasons.  One, I can't see why it would be such a huge secret and Jon, being Jon, would probably spin some life-affirming story about it as he imparted his wisdom on his wayward friends.  Second, Gary is Gary and see #1.

I read an article just this morning where Nash talks about how the whole Katherine leaving thing was because he needs to make Eddie suffer.  Which, I get.  Eddie did a bad thing and Eddie should have to pay the consequences for it.  But Delilah also did a bad thing...where is all her suffering?  Actually, I give more side-eye to St. Delilah of Unreliable Contraception in the whole baby thing because SHE is the one who chose not to take steps when she knew there was a possibility she could be pregnant.  I'm not saying the pregnancy was her responsibility, but Eddie taking Plan B wouldn't have accomplished anything.

I agree with @DoubleUTeeEff (I think it was...) who said this show would be so much better without Delilah.  Yeah, there would still be sloppy story telling, nonsensical character decisions, etc...but the black hole sucking the life out of the show would be gone.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

The guys ordered the crib from the Warehouse Club/IKEA, didn’t pick it, and it got resold. If only there was another store in Boston that sold cribs...🤔. 

I know, right?

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Here's my thing with Delilah: the problem isn't that she's a bad person, far past the point of being a "flawed human."  The problem is that she's not a villain.  Now, I understand that this isn't a show that needs villains and heroes, but she's so horrible, and has faced NO consequences and takes NO responsibility for anything.  And, the gaslighting that she's some kind of saint, is killing this show.

You've nailed it. It's completely exasperating that she's treated so delicately, presumably because she's widowed, but she's a widow who was not only messing around on her husband, but was messing around with her husband's friend who had a wife and child she knew. Plus aggressively helpless women make me tear my hair out.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Clanstarling

[Bwill3133]

 Oh Delilah, you were not missed. So at presumably almost 9 months pregnant, this woman did not have a nursery ready? I know she’s grieving but good lord do her friends do EVERYTHING for her? At this point it’s just silly. Also the reaction to Eddie telling her Katherine left was stupid. Shocked that someone isn't falling over to kiss your ass? No lady, the woman whose husband lied to her for months and you just had a baby with is not coming by to celebrate you idiot.  Her kids reaction to the paternity will be something I’m sure. 

I refuse to believe everyone’s fine with knowing Eddie is the father and going along with it.  Regina who had the biggest (with Gary) reaction to their affair just waves it off now? Sure definitely a normal reaction.  Friends forgive a lot, that might take some time. 

Poor Katherine. She’s by far by favorite and I never want her to have to deal with these people ever again. I want her to have her break, come home and take Theo. Hopefully find some better friends along the way too. 

[Dusty]

There is something wrong with this group of people, aside from Katherine. She is the only one that reacts anywhere near normal and it's not a high bar to reach. The fact that she reacts and feels things for more than two minutes is more than enough compared to the rest of the group. Can there be a spinoff? Katherine and Theo, hell throw in Sophie and Daniel too. They all decided to leave their father's (and mother) toxic group of friends to start a new life in Boston. This is their story.

I read an interview with DJ Nash that someone upthread mentioned I think. Basically saying that Katherine leaving is to make Eddie suffer. Sure whatever. But then he says "hopefully makes us feel for Eddie." So...this is all so we feel bad for Eddie. Has nothing to do with Katherine and what she's going through really. How is it that the character he seems to think and care the least about is one of the best ones on the show? And can they at least show Regina going to check up on her or something? Can she have a real friend please?!?!

I hate this baby storyline with Rome and Regina too. I hate it because I know how it's going to end up. Regina is going to give in and have a baby. It's going to make me not like them as a couple because the way I see it if it happens is Regina is going to badgered into having it. And I have no doubt it'll end up being something like she was just afraid to have kids because what happened to her or something like that and she really wanted one all along. Or she immediately falls in love with her kid once she has it so it all works out. But I don't see myself ever buying it. And honestly this show does not need another baby. Which sucks because I like them as a couple and characters.

[may flowers]

23 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Did they have Katherine leave Theo just to make us not like her or root for her a lot more than we do the others? 

Yes. Nash said in a post premiere TV Line interview that he wanted to generate sympathy for Eddie. 

[bybrandy]

33 minutes ago, may flowers said:

Yes. Nash said in a post premiere TV Line interview that he wanted to generate sympathy for Eddie. 

Um, I have sympathy for Theo.   But Eddie?!?!!?

[readster]

1 hour ago, bybrandy said:

Um, I have sympathy for Theo.   But Eddie?!?!!?

I had no sympathy for him. I HATE IT! When creators say we are suppose to feel "sorry" for characters that have acted like assholes. Yes, Eddie is now feeling remorse for his half ass thinking. HOWEVER... the episode didn't make me think that or even several other previous episodes. It was like Christopher on Gilmore Girls, or Castle's exes on the show or even various characters on Greg Belanti's shows like: Everwood, Jack and Bobby and so forth. You never felt sympathy or it was extremely small, because not only did people NOT call them out on their behavior. The creators of those shows were: "see, don't you feel sorry for them?" Ummm... no because they are still acting that way and no one is telling them to GET OUT!

Edited September 28, 2019 by readster
no and not NOT

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, bybrandy said:

Um, I have sympathy for Theo.   But Eddie?!?!!?

Yeah, so true. Of course I can't feel for Eddie. He caused all of this to happen. Him and Delilah.

The only thing I remotely feel bad for Eddie for is the fact that his mistress is getting away with all of it. Delilah doesn't even get yelled at. She just got the cold shoulder from Regina for a week and now they're back to best buddies. Delilah's suffered no consequences. Yes, her husband died, but that has nothing to do with her cheating on him for months. 

Eddie at least is getting SOME consequences here. Not enough, though. He really needs more than just Katherine leaving him. She should also be taking Theo with her. Let Eddie soak in his misery with his new kid for a while. 

6 minutes ago, readster said:

Yes, Eddie is now feeling remorse for his half ass thinking. HOWEVER... the episode didn't make me think that or even several other previous episodes

I think the only reason why he is now is because the audience didn't react well to the obvious initial endgame of Eddie and Delilah, and they had to backtrack. Because people like Katherine/Eddie more (I'll admit that I do too, because of the actors), they finally allowed Eddie to feel bad and genuinely look bad.