S21.E13: Power of Veto #4

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

Power of Veto

[Nashville]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Power of Veto

Like the Power of Love - but different. 😉 

[Callaphera]

Cliff? You suck. 

[mojoween]

Cliff, you suck so bad.  They played you dude.

I don’t even like Bella and I hate this move.  Cliff crows about not breaking his promise to Christie, but did he not break an earlier promise to Nick and Bella?

Jack is just the worst.  I mean, he’s not Dick, but in this group of cretins he’s the worst.  He is just incapable of speaking to people like a not-asshole.

Jackson’s entire demeanor when he was talking at Christie about her power was unbelievably gross.

[Samwise979]

Hmmm that wasn't a good move Cliff. If Bella ending up on the block was happening either way wouldn't it have been better to tell Christie that he'd nominate someone else so that 1. Her power would be used and done and gone, and, 2. The blood wouldn't be on his hands. 

[helpmerhonda]

I need people to stop declaring themselves "comp beasts" or "veto kings"  or "BB legends" or whatever. Calm down.

[Ananayel]

I hate this show and all the people in it, but I did like that comp.

Jesus, that just made me feel sorry for Bella. Unacceptable!

[PaperTree]

Cliff would have better off not dealing and forcing out Christy's power.  It's good for 2 more weeks???

I don't remember how making a deal with the devil usually works out for the dealer in this game.  Bye Bella.

Jack's power didn't change anything.

Sam getting picked for Veto again was hilarious.  I just wish he wouldn't YELL!

Tommy gets on my last nerve.

Tricky Veto.  I was sure Kat had it.  Ugh!  I can't believe Blockhead pulled that off.  He wins Most Obnoxious HG this year.

And cue the waterworks.  Yes Christy you were stupid to blab about your power.

[yanksno1]

I'm torn on the Bella replacement nom. Yeah, not a good move for Cliff at all. Basically a wasted HOH for him. But I'll never forgive her or Nick's treatment of Nicole and didn't like at all the possibility of them working with Cliff, Nicole and the others. So I'm fine with her going up and getting sent out. Just not a good move, but hopefully it does buy Cliff some safety for next week.

[North of Eden]

So, Cliff is revealed as a spineless, rotten piece of garbage.

It was hard watching tonight because I was inadvertently spoiled on Bella going on the block (thanks you-tube knuckleheads who put spoilers in the title), but I assumed that it was because it was Christie using her power.

HELLO Cliff...Nick is right...these are the people that put you out a few nights ago. The same people! And you're going to do this to people who helped you stay? And you say it is because your wife is watching..what you did was completely dishonorable! It's even worse your wife was watching. What happened to his infamous "Cliff Notes" where he was heard wanting to get couples out? Sis and Holly (mutes that they be) were sitting right there!

God this is just a vile season...so many loathsome people and stupid people (Kat admitting in the DR she was likely going to save one of the Jacks instead of sticking with the "outsiders."

And finally, BB has the nerve to serve up the "heartfelt" segment where Tommy is crying over the nominations of Jackholes? Who was that meant to benefit...no one in America besides their families and what friends they have left after their targeting of minorities wants to see that!

[leocadia]

The only good things I could find in this sad, sad chapter of BB21:

• Watching Jack lose competitions never gets old
• Christy not giving in to Jackson--he so wanted to be the one to use her "power"

For the record, I don't love Christy and totally wish her power was flushed, but Jackson being denied was the silver lining.

Oh Cliff, you could have been a contendah

I know it will never happen, but if Kat truly wants to play the middle, she'd be better off voting to get rid of Jack to keep the sides "even" and going against each other.  As the "outliers" dwindle, she has to see she's at the bottom of the cool kids team.  Of course, that would also mean that Nicole and Jessica would have to vote the same way, and that Cliff would have to escape the Christy mist long enough to break the tie...Jack's not going anywhere is he?

Edited July 25, 2019 by leocadia

[sphoebus31]

Maybe it's just me and my personal bias, but didn't it seem like Jackson was able to kick his shoes off easier than anyone else?  Were they untied?  Or was he given shoes that were too big?  I don't know....But is it possible that production thought it would be more dramatic/better for Jackson to win so they gave him whatever edge they could?  Like making Sis's pants too tight?  (Seriously--she's probably an XS, so they either gave her children's pants or she has a sweaty ass, which, okay possible, but still.)  I may very well be bitter. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by sphoebus31
Stuff

[BK1978]

Having read the spoilers from the kind people who recap the Live Feeds, I went into this episode knowing what happened.  To be honest it made me even more annoyed seeing what Cliff did.  Viewing the episode was not fun at all.

At least Australian Survivor is back so I have one good reality show to watch this summer.

Edited July 25, 2019 by BK1978

[green]

Another painful and boring episode on BB: The Season From Hell.

[Cotypubby]

Dumb move by Cliff, but on the bright side Bella will be the next out, which is sweet karma after her treatment of Nicole last week.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Oh, Cliff. I guess they really do grow them big AND dumb in Texas.

At least we'll see one loathsome person go home tomorrow night.

As for Christie: Strong women (and men, for that matter) do not burst into tears every time they're asked to make a decision. And don't whine about everyone expecting you to use your power when you went out of your way to tell everyone about it.

[Wandering Snark]

Grr. Arrgh.

I get Cliff trying to pull something from his dumpster fire of an HoH but getting "safety" from people that have already votes you out once and have the numbers to do so again? Well it's not going to go down with the smartest plays ever.

He also burned the bridge with Nick and Bella, who are heinous but they would have worked with him and he needs votes. This "security" even if it comes through means nada as it doesn't get him numbers it just gets him temporarily lower on the 'people we want to pick off' list. He choked, basically.

This was probably the only time we'll see either Jackhole on the block, it was the 'major challenge' they had to overcome to win, we may as well just call it now. The bad guys win again.

[Melina22]

8 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Who was that meant to benefit...no one in America besides their families and what friends they have left after their targeting of minorities wants to see that!

Because Bella has played so badly and annoyed everyone so much with her inability to keep a secret, I forgot until this episode that if she goes tonight, it's just a continuation of the Minorities Out theme of this season. So that means next week Jessica goes followed by Cliff. I hope I'm wrong. 

4 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Everyone thinks Cliff's an idiot and/or a piece of garbage now, apparently. My UO is that Christie's power put him in an impossible, virtually no-win situation. He admitted as much in the DR. Recovering from this, no matter what he does, is now extremely unlikely. Possible, but extremely unlikely. Personally, I still really like him. I  don't know what his best move would even be now. 

I have to admit that Jackson had the best strategy for the comp. Smart. Not smart? Bulldozing Christie. He'll live to regret that. 

By the way, is there some way to remove a quote box? I sure can't find it. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Melina22

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

21 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I don't know what his best move would even be now. 

I would have put Analyse on the block next to Jack. It would have immediately reduced the Six Shooters' voting power by one AND driven a big emotional wedge between Christie and the Jackholes.

[Melina22]

4 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

AND driven a big emotional wedge between Christie and the Jackholes.

Sorry for being dim, but how?

Wouldn't going back on his word to Christie guarantee that the maximum number of people in power would be against him? 

[Suzysite]

They're going to be against him anyway for daring to put the 2 Jacks on the block.   He should have just put another alliance member up and let them fight it out.   Cliff's days are numbered, regardless.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

43 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Sorry for being dim, but how?

Wouldn't going back on his word to Christie guarantee that the maximum number of people in power would be against him? 

Jack would have hated Christie for forcing his girlfriend home and reducing their alliance by one.

Jackson would have hated Christie for not giving him the power and reducing their alliance by one. Notice how he was blatantly ordering her around? He would have been furious at her for not doing as she was told, given the outcome.

Both Jack and Jackson would have been extremely condescending towards Christie in a "See what happens when you dumb broads don't do what we tell you?" tone that likely would have enraged her.

Yes, Christie would have been furious with Cliff also, but what choice would she have but to throw her lot in with him anyway?

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Cliff should have put up Christie just to get that power out of the game.

That's what Mrs. RaiderDuck was saying last night. The only problem is that Christie stuck her neck out with Cliff by not using her power. If he'd turned around and backstabbed her to that degree, he could forget about anyone in the house trusting him again; before she left, she'd be sure to tell EVERYONE ad nauseum how she trusted mean ol' Cliff and this is what she got.

[sunshine23]

We were trying to figure out if there is a chance of Jack leaving;

No Jack; Nick, Jess, Nicole, Sam, Kat (?)

No Bella: Jackson, Christie, Tommy, Sis, Analyse

Cliff for the tie breaker; Jack goes home IF they can get Kat to vote against JAck. Am I missing anyone?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

9 minutes ago, sunshine23 said:

We were trying to figure out if there is a chance of Jack leaving;

No Jack; Nick, Jess, Nicole, Sam, Kat (?)

No Bella: Jackson, Christie, Tommy, Sis, Analyse

Is Nicole going to vote for Bella to remain after the rotten way Bella treated her a week ago?

[Melina22]

32 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I usually use the backspace button until the box disappears.

Thanks. I feel like I tried that, but maybe not enough times. 

ETA... I realize now I was putting the cursor inside the quote box, instead of outside as green suggests below. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Melina22

[green]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Because Bella has played so badly and annoyed everyone so much with her inability to keep a secret, I forgot until this episode that if she goes tonight, it's just a continuation of the Minorities Out theme of this season. So that means next week Jessica goes followed by Cliff. I hope I'm wrong.   ...

By the way, is there some way to remove a quote box? I sure can't find it. 

Alas, you aren't wrong.  And ...

28 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I usually use the backspace button until the box disappears.

Yes.

Place the cursor right where I typed the "Y" in yes in the line above and press backspace and the quote box above would be removed with one stroke.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Because Bella has played so badly and annoyed everyone so much with her inability to keep a secret, I forgot until this episode that if she goes tonight, it's just a continuation of the Minorities Out theme of this season.

IMHO, if Bella was the whitest girl on the planet, she'd still be the next to go. Nobody can stand her except Nick (and in the Live Cam segment we watched, even he didn't seem overly bothered at the thought of her leaving).

[Melina22]

3 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

IMHO, if Bella was the whitest girl on the planet, she'd still be the next to go. Nobody can stand her except Nick (and in the Live Cam segment we watched, even he didn't seem overly bothered at the thought of her leaving).

I don't disagree. At the same time, on week one, I foresaw the boot plan based on Jack's preferences, and so far it's right on target. Coincidence? Maybe. Time will tell, I guess. Bella being so annoying has muddied the waters a bit. 

[amazingracefan]

I don't really understand Christie's game, she complains about Jack and Jackson taking control and yet keeps with them anyway.

3 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Jack would have hated Christie for forcing his girlfriend home and reducing their alliance by one.

Jackson would have hated Christie for not giving him the power and reducing their alliance by one. Notice how he was blatantly ordering her around? He would have been furious at her for not doing as she was told, given the outcome.

Both Jack and Jackson would have been extremely condescending towards Christie in a "See what happens when you dumb broads don't do what we tell you?" tone that likely would have enraged her.

Yes, Christie would have been furious with Cliff also, but what choice would she have but to throw her lot in with him anyway?

That's what Mrs. RaiderDuck was saying last night. The only problem is that Christie stuck her neck out with Cliff by not using her power. If he'd turned around and backstabbed her to that degree, he could forget about anyone in the house trusting him again; before she left, she'd be sure to tell EVERYONE ad nauseum how she trusted mean ol' Cliff and this is what she got.

This show will never be as good as Survivor can be.

That competition was similar to one in the past, was it part of the 'roadkill' twist?

Edited July 25, 2019 by amazingracefan

[bkathi]

1 hour ago, sunshine23 said:

We were trying to figure out if there is a chance of Jack leaving;

No Jack; Nick, Jess, Nicole, Sam, Kat (?)

No Bella: Jackson, Christie, Tommy, Sis, Analyse

Cliff for the tie breaker; Jack goes home IF they can get Kat to vote against JAck. Am I missing anyone?

What about Holly?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

37 minutes ago, bkathi said:

What about Holly?

Sunshine counted Analyse and "Sis" as separate people. I assumed they meant Holly.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[sunshine23]

38 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Sunshine counted Analyse and "Sis" as separate people. I assumed they meant Holly.

Oops. Glad someone is paying attention. I wasn't. Lol.

[sunshine23]

4 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Is Nicole going to vote for Bella to remain after the rotten way Bella treated her a week ago?

True, but it depends on how badly she'd want to break the Jack***s up. I'm guessing Cliff will work on her. Maybe Nick, and even Bella will apologize to try and sway her vote.

[TroopinFairy]

Damn...To me for actually thinking that either AquaDude or LegoBro were going to leave. 

Bye Bella. I won’t miss you.

[Wandering Snark]

I'm still cheering for Cliff and wouldn't call him stupid, he just made a bad decision under pressure with his back against the wall... it sucks actually.

And we can't count on a vote by Kat in the 'Jack goes home' probability as she stated she'd have saved Jackson if she won the veto...

[Melina22]

10 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

I'm still cheering for Cliff and wouldn't call him stupid, he just made a bad decision under pressure with his back against the wall... it sucks actually.

I totally agree with this. 

[iMonrey]

This show has gotten so stale, no matter how many new "twists" and challenges they come up with it feels excessively repetitive and scripted. There are too many cuts to people in the DR describing the exact same thing over and over again, the same scripted "bits" with the HoH calling the houseguests together to pick the Veto, or the Veto Winner calling the HGs together for the meeting after staring woefully at the memory wall. It's all so formulaic and paint-by-numbers. I realize the editors have to go thru a lot of footage to fill forty minutes three times a week but they need to go off-script a bit more. They're getting so lazy, and I'm sure they make good money to do this job.

Quote

My UO is that Christie's power put him in an impossible, virtually no-win situation. He admitted as much in the DR. Recovering from this, no matter what he does, is now extremely unlikely. Possible, but extremely unlikely. Personally, I still really like him. I  don't know what his best move would even be now. 

I tend to agree he was screwed either way but at the end of the day he took the cowardly way out. He started out saying he wanted to make a "big move" and this was anything but. It's hard to say which would have been the safer move in this case but forcing Christie to flush her power would have been the bigger move, no question.

Quote

IMHO , if Bella was the whitest girl on the planet, she'd still be the next to go.

Possibly but the optics on this are terrible. The first four to go, all minorities. Yikes.

[Melina22]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

describing the exact same thing over and over again, the same scripted "bits" with the HoH calling the houseguests together to pick the Veto, or the Veto Winner calling the HGs together for the meeting after staring woefully at the memory wall. It's all so formulaic and paint-by-numbers. I realize the editors have to go thru a lot of footage to fill forty minutes three times a week but they need to go off-script a bit more.

You've hit the nail right on the head! Formulaic is the exact word. This is where Survivor is different. It has rules and structure, but I never find myself rolling my eyes or fast forwarding endless predictable bits like the tedious speeches before the Veto is or isn't used, or the endless DR proclamations of "I know I'm just a pawn, but PAWNS GO HOME!" or whatever. Yawn. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Melina22

[Melina22]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Possibly but the optics on this are terrible. The first four to go, all minorities. Yikes.

Seriously. The giant elephant is slightly less visible with the Camp Comebackers banished, but I can see him huddled over there behind the spiral staircase. 

[mikewho]

Cristie said something like, 'Now I wish I hadn't told the whole house about my Special Power because Blah Blah Blah. I should've just kept it to myself.'

Why are these blabber-mouths always regretting what they did when they realize it was a bad move?

Can't they think in advance? Foresight is often better than Hindsight.

[Kris117]

18 hours ago, leocadia said:

Christy not giving in to Jackson--he so wanted to be the one to use her "power"

Jesus, he was obnoxious to the extreme with that. In the DR he didn’t even correct himself when he said “we still have the power.”  Jerk.

10 hours ago, Melina22 said:

By the way, is there some way to remove a quote box? I sure can't find it. 

I have a lot of trouble with that, too. Backspacing doesn’t always work, or it takes several tries to remove the text and the quote box. I almost always use my iPad here. 

2 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

I'm still cheering for Cliff and wouldn't call him stupid, he just made a bad decision under pressure with his back against the wall... it sucks actually.

His big problem is that he’s too nice to go back on his word to Christie. It’s very difficult to win without doing that. What you need is to be able to explain your decision to the jury, and soothe the hurt feelings individual jury members might have. I think Cliff would be good at that part of it. 
 

I laughed when Cliff said he didn’t want to go back on his word and disappoint his wife. I’d bet a lot of money she was back at home screaming at the screen, “This BB, not Sunday School!”

2 hours ago, mikewho said:

Cristie said something like, 'Now I wish I hadn't told the whole house about my Special Power because Blah Blah Blah. I should've just kept it to myself.'

Why are these blabber-mouths always regretting what they did when they realize it was a bad move?

Whether in Survivor or BB, a general rule should be if you’re thinking about sharing the news of your power/advantage, don’t. At least sleep on it. 
 

I can get that they’re bored silly, and having anything new to talk about would be exciting, but keep your mouth shut for the sake of your game.

[green]

1 hour ago, Kris117 said:

I have a lot of trouble with that, too. Backspacing doesn’t always work, or it takes several tries to remove the text and the quote box. I almost always use my iPad here.

Again, like I said above, hitting the BACKSPACE key in the immediate space directly right under the box you want to get rid of works every single time. 

In this case here you would have to have it to the left (in front of) of the "A" in the word Again.  And the direct, first line under.  Not 2 lines under like the "t" in "the box" wont work.  But sometimes people forget they are down two lines, not one.  That is a very basic common mistake so maybe that is what is happening in your case?

[Tdoc72]

12 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Sorry for being dim, but how?

Wouldn't going back on his word to Christie guarantee that the maximum number of people in power would be against him? 

He shouldn’t have promised her in the first place.  He should’ve kept it vague, “hmm, interesting, I’ll think on it” kind of thing.  But I do like that he at least tried to do something, even if it didn’t work out. 

8 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

I don't really understand Christie's game, she complains about Jack and Jackson taking control and yet keeps with them anyway.

She spent her whole HOH crying about how it ’wasn’t the Jack show’ but here she still is. Although I really think she dislikes Jackson and is just biding her time. At least I hope so. 

[greyflannel]

11 hours ago, sunshine23 said:

We were trying to figure out if there is a chance of Jack leaving;

No Jack; Nick, Jess, Nicole, Sam, Kat (?)

No Bella: Jackson, Christie, Tommy, Sis, Analyse

Cliff for the tie breaker; Jack goes home IF they can get Kat to vote against JAck. Am I missing anyone?

Even if Kat were to vote Jack out, which seems unlikely, the problem is that the "outsiders" don't have a tight bond. More than likely, even if they agreed to vote together, each one would most likely have doubts that the others would follow through. Then you have them thinking that they don't want to be the one who voted the Jack out if the others aren't going to do it and he stays. It sucks because they have the numbers to get it done with a tiebreaker, and they might not have another chance.

[tinkerbell]

2 hours ago, green said:

Again, like I said above, hitting the BACKSPACE key in the immediate space directly right under the box you want to get rid of works every single time. 

In this case here you would have to have it to the left (in front of) of the "A" in the word Again.  And the direct, first line under.  Not 2 lines under like the "t" in "the box" wont work.  But sometimes people forget they are down two lines, not one.  That is a very basic common mistake so maybe that is what is happening in your case?

That usually works, but I have had times when the cursor just will not go there, not matter what I do.  It won't let me type outside of the quote box.

[green]

45 minutes ago, tinkerbell said:

That usually works, but I have had times when the cursor just will not go there, not matter what I do.  It won't let me type outside of the quote box.

I use the mouse to place the cursor in that position because yeah sometimes you can't use arrow keys to get there.

[Halting Hex]

On 7/25/2019 at 2:09 AM, Wandering Snark said:

This was probably the only time we'll see either Jackhole on the block,

Well, I don't believe they'll steamroll to the F2, but even if they did, one of them would have to be on the block at F3.  [/nitpick]

On 7/25/2019 at 6:45 AM, Melina22 said:

By the way, is there some way to remove a quote box? I sure can't find it. 

1.  Place your cursor in the quote box;  a small box with directional arrows will appear above the upper-left corner of the quote box.

2. Click on this smaller box;  a line of dashes will appear to the right, across the top of the box.

3.  Drag the line of dashes below the quote box.

4.  Hit backspace to remove the box.

To quote Willow Rosenberg, "easy as really difficult pie".

On 7/25/2019 at 5:35 PM, Kris117 said:

His big problem is that he’s too nice to go back on his word to Christie.

He needed to couch his decision to revoke his word in the same "moral" tones she uses.  Something like:

"Christie, I want to thank you for not using your power.  It certainly has the potential to majorly impact the game.  I know we had a deal for me to nominate Bella, but in exchange for letting you keep your power, I was supposed to be granted two weeks of safety and quite honestly, I don't trust your alliance to keep that deal.  Especially since they blindsided Nick and voted me out just four days ago.  Since I feel that you were making a false promise, I don't consider myself bound by our deal.  And since your power does have such devastating potential, I'd better get it out of the game right now.  So, please, Christie…take a seat."

Some people think that Christie would have stayed against Jack, but I don't see it.  Jackson would save his bromance, Analyse would save her showmance, both for Jack's utility as a meatshield besides his greater loyalty to them than Christie has.  Even if Holly rebels and joins Tommy in voting out Jack, that still splits the Shooters' vote 2-2, and Cliff now needs only three outside votes to force the tie and break it in Jack's favor.  Since Christie had tried to intimidate him into backdooring Bella, it shouldn't have been too difficult for Cliff to get Nick/Bella/Sam on the "evict Christie" train, I wouldn't think.  And Nicole/Jess/Kat could vote however they wished, not affecting the outcome in any way.  But that's all spec, obviously.

Cliff's a man who knows his history; once you've crossed the Rubicon, the die can't be uncast.  He should have stuck to his guns and kept taking shots at the Shooters.  Instead he shot himself in the foot.  JMO.

[Kris117]

On 7/25/2019 at 6:20 PM, green said:

Again, like I said above, hitting the BACKSPACE key in the immediate space directly right under the box you want to get rid of works every single time. 

In this case here you would have to have it to the left (in front of) of the "A" in the word Again.  And the direct, first line under.  Not 2 lines under like the "t" in "the box" wont work.  But sometimes people forget they are down two lines, not one.  That is a very basic common mistake so maybe that is what is happening in your case?

No. Thank you for continuing to try to help, but as I said, what you are suggesting doesn’t always work. 
 

On 7/25/2019 at 8:22 PM, tinkerbell said:

That usually works, but I have had times when the cursor just will not go there, not matter what I do.  It won't let me type outside of the quote box.

Same. 
 

On 7/28/2019 at 2:04 AM, Halting Hex said:

1.  Place your cursor in the quote box;  a small box with directional arrows will appear above the upper-left corner of the quote box.

2. Click on this smaller box;  a line of dashes will appear to the right, across the top of the box.

3.  Drag the line of dashes below the quote box.

4.  Hit backspace to remove the box.

 To quote Willow Rosenberg, "easy as really difficult pie".

This is another thing which doesn’t consistently work. Thanks for writing it out so clearly, though, because what appears and doesn’t appear was inconsistent enough that I was unsure as to what was the correct behavior. I wish we had the function to strip the code back.

Anyway, back to the show. 

Halting Hex, I think your version of what Cliff should have said is spot on. It would also have been a good defense had he made it to Final Two.