S03.E09: Heroic

[AnswersWanted]

3 hours ago, ferjy said:

That was so poorly executed. I can just hear Yvonne “I have to come in at 5:00 a.m. and stand around all day in the wings, watching Lizzie making faces, all for a 20 second slashing scene??” I bet she gets her agent to put in precise stipulations in her next contract if these bozo writers are still on the scene next season. 

She would save a lot of time if she did, definitely. 

They probably could have just CGIed it really, it was such a sad attempt to drum up more "drama" over June doing more, as the doctor said, suicidal shit that should have gotten her on the wall. 

If the show wants to keep proving to us she is literally bullet proof no matter what, we really get it by now, we do, it's been overkill this whole season.

3 hours ago, ferjy said:

I was racking my brain trying to remember when June recruited informers in this episode, as if she’d even think of planning something so crafty (I could easily have missed it, my mind couldn’t help wandering and I even nodded off a few times) when I realized autocorrect must have been helping you out and it was “stitches”. 😃

Hee, gotta love my phone's autocorrect feature.

Though she did try to corrupt Janine there for a second and get her to help her kill Ofmatthew, because there's no line June won't cross when she wants to get her way, barf. 

2 hours ago, ferjy said:

To the colonies, that will be the furthest they reach. It’s June, they’re sure to end up in dire straits somewhere. 

She'll catapult them over the wall, they have those little cloak capes, they can use them as makeshift batwings, June will show them how.

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I was expecting some snarky voiceover comment from June regarding this.

How they managed to restrain themselves from another June sneer and smirk while thinking only in exposition, I will never know. 

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I had a very different take. Rose is older than Hannah, therefore old enough to remember 'before'. She does know the world before Gilead - though we have been shown that the seeds of Gilead were planted many years before the 'revolution'. I also didn't think Rose was a true believer - she hesitated before saying this was what she wanted, and I interpreted that as her having doubts but being too scared to say so.

I hated this episode. I have had enough of June and nothing of consequence happened in this episode. It was a waste of time and not in any way entertaining for me.

That's my exact thinking as well.

That girl was at least 5 or 6 before Gilead took full control, and she was a stolen child, her "mother" was a wife, so she was ripped away from her real parents who could have been anyone, lawyers and doctors to professors and actors, or just two dads who worked retail and at a bank, the options are limitles for what her background could be.

But without question she would still have memories of them and their life before, the freedom before,  a life that clearly got her poor parents labeled as "criminals" in Gilead. 

That is very difficult than Eve's situation where she basically grew up in a Gilead-lite situation where her biological family raised her in a certain manner, and as a strict believer from birth.

I too definitely formed the impression from her delivery she was merely speaking according to the script that's been hammered into her since the fall. 

She is reciting what she must because no other answer is acceptable, and she understands she has no other choice now, she must obey, she must get married and have babies, it's "God's" will, blah blah. 

Your last sentence was all of me and my mood last night. 

It's almost exhausting watching how many knots this show will tie itself into just so that June can keep creepily staring into our souls and repeating which 1 of 3 internal mantras we've heard from her over two seasons now. 

1: Fuck them.

2: Fuck me. 

3: Fuck it all. 

Repeat as necessary. 

[chaifan]

I thought this was an interesting episode.  It would have been great had it been episode 1 or 2, instead of episode 9, as it could have set up the whole season for something... anything... to happen. 

Things I liked:

June actually got punishment for her actions.  I know it looked benign, but she was there for how many months?  Having to kneel for hours on end, obviously not allowed to go outside, probably not allowed to leave the room.  People coming in and out and not even acknowledging her existence. That is torture, and I think Elizabeth Moss played this well.

The doctor showed a rare glimpse into a man who is not blindly loyal to Gilead.  I liked seeing this, especially from a doctor.  I'd think doctors would be the most likely of those still alive to not buy into the Gilead BS - highly educated, ethical code that would be wholly opposite of Gilead's religious code, hard wired to help, not hurt people.  I know there have been doctors that have done horrible things throughout history (Nazi Germany), but I believe the majority would resist before doing that.  He plays along to some extent (putting the baby's well being above Nicole's), but still shows compassion to June. 

Janine.  Oh, Janine.  So happy she called out June.  Sort of sucked it had to be in a moment where June was crazier than Janine. 

Things I would have done differently:

Like I said above, this should have been episode 1 or 2 of this season.  We would then find out that doctors are a large part of the resistance.  This would give June an actual plausible way to try and "save the babies". 

I really wish when Lydia gave Janine the eye patch she said "Oh, do you remember the Waterford's Martha?  She made this for you."  First Serena's fake teal finger, then Janine's eyepatch.  And when we finally see Rita's backstory we learn she had her own start up company making custom prosthetics for wounded warriors. 

I would have had Comm. Lawrence and/or his wife appear for a quick moment, maybe slip June a Snickers or something.

Totally random thought, unrelated to anything above...  The scene with the daughter in the hallway made me think that North Korea is probably the closest real life equivalent of Gilead.  The people there are totally isolated, are fed the "news" their Dear Leader wants them to see, and have no access to outside information sources.  So why would they question anything.  This is Gilead, and the children growing up will have no reason to believe their lives are anything but normal. 

Second totally random thought... even if you can accept the limited use of technology, the color coded outfits (and accessories - matching umbrellas!), etc. what kind of evil would ban the use of rolling suitcases???

Edited July 18, 2019 by chaifan

[Joana]

I always have a problem with these bottle/time jump episodes that only suit one particular storyline, while all the other ones are left hanging. Grey's Anatomy does this all the time and it always results in a big mess.

So, June has apparently spent months confined to Natalie's hospital room. That actually is an effective sort of punishment (for once!), but, what happened elsewhere in that world? Is it ever going to be addressed? What happened to the plan to bring baby Holly back? Is it aborted? June's services are no longer needed? You'd think Serena would be going crazy, literally, with hope and anticipation, but we saw her and she didn't seem the slightest bit perturbed. Also, are they no longer bothering to even pretend June is supposed to provide a baby for Commander Lawrence? 

Usually, in cases like this, the show resumes where the previous episode had left off, no matter how much times was supposed to pass in between, and I never find that satisfying. 

[AnswersWanted]

3 hours ago, Joana said:

I'm really, really, like REALLY worried this might actually happen. And if it does, it will definitely be a point of no return for me and something I would NOT be able to get over.

At this point, I'm like this guy:

Also, I kinda don't want her to get any more material than she currently does, because it would almost certainly be something ridiculous and stupid. I'm perfectly fine with how she is now in small doses, all innocent and sweet. Just as long as she's not beaten and harrassed, I really can't stand that anymore. 

Madeline has made me fall so hard in love with Janine, I truly never expected to care about her, the same goes for Alexis and Emily. 

Somehow these two women have managed to take often mere minutes of screen time and produce absolute gold that always stands out to me.

I am so sick of her being the kicked puppy of the group, just let her be, it's as if the show thinks letting Janine take so much abuse makes up for June's lack of repercussions. 

All they need to do is keep her away from bridges and stones, and canned goods. 

Janine is just such a perfect little cinnabon. If another escape is ever arranged, I would love to see her at the front of the line to get out. 

[mamadrama]

I think I have figured out the formula for this season:

Open on June's face

June is going through a ROUGH TIME

Cue random handmaids to add more color for a moment

Aunt Lydia does something bitchy

Janine (aka the whipping boy) is kicked while she's down

Serena Joy does something bitchy

June lashes out at someone showing her kindness

A tense scene is a fakeout

June's plot armor protects her from something that would kill Janine

Aunt Lydia does a 180

June experiences A MOMENT and vows to take action against...something

End with closeup on June

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, Joana said:

Also, are they no longer bothering to even pretend June is supposed to provide a baby for Commander Lawrence? 

Even worse, wasn’t she reassigned? A couple gets a new handmaid and she’s promptly taken away for months! They must be pissed! Unless they were having the ceremony in the hospital room. 😛 (Hey, wouldn’t put it past them.) 

[Runningbrit]

When the doc said he was going to sew it up, did anyone else think that June would have her lips sewn together, or is that just me :)

[AnswersWanted]

I haven't yet touched on this much, but in all seriousness, the idea June could get just her own daughter out of Gilead was almost too impossible to believe, and frankly it would have taken nothing short of a miracle to pull off.

Yet now, out of nowhere, the show has June declare she wants to be able to liberate however many other children out of Gilead because...the fuck? 

How?

This is Gilead, not an overcrowded Chuckie Cheese's that's run out of pizza.

This is not a feat one can accomplish just because they will it to happen as hard as they can.

It's totally illogical that Gilead could or would somehow let a large number of stolen babies or handmaid born babies out of Gilead, especially if it wasn't done as part of some outside military rescue operation involving half the known world and a ton of threats of nuclear warfare.

Hasn't this season strived to show us, in rather clear detail, that Gilead is not the weak, dwindling nation we first assumed?

So what the hell can possibly change so drastically and exponentially in the last few episodes that means they would have to concede to anyone's demands, especially a lowly handmaid like June?

Gilead has made serious inroads with Canada to potentially return the refugees currently sheltered there back to them, but somehow this solid "power structure"is going to be crippled enough for a bunch of kiddos to make their way to freedom? How are these people actually writing this shit, seriously?

If anything, such a plan would end with a lot of dead babies and any adults helping them, what would Gilead have to lose anyway at that point if the kids are escaping, they would definitely rather keep them out of the hands of their enemies on the outside.

Regimes like Gilead kill those they cannot control, children would be no exception. Those kids are potential witnesses and evidence of all the shit going down in Gilead, they're huge liabilities. 

Not to mention the logistics of how June could even plan this out are incredibly flawed in every way possible.

There's no way Lawrence has nearly enough power or control to pull something of that magnitude off, so just what surprise ace and ally does June have in her pocket to play at this point?

And if they want to bring Nick back into this and imply that he can somehow help her pull this off, again that's just pure and total bullshit.

Unless he's secretly the crown prince of Gilead or the fucking anti-christ he can't possibly have the necessary sway to force such an exodus.

We barely saw June dip her toes into the pool of resistance this season, she has nothing going for her on that front and she has no connections whatsoever to any forces powerful and capable enough to even get her half the way there. 

This is when the show clearly proves it could care less about actually telling a reasonably good story.

They have done nothing, absolutely nothing, to make it the slightest bit believable that the June we've been watching all season is ready for the "big leagues". 

This chick couldn't manage to talk to a woman in a grocery store without getting her killed, come the fuck on.

She's had no contact with anyone outside except Luke and the Swiss and they can't just come riding to her rescue, and within Gilead she has incredibly limited resources, and everyone who blinks wrong is being hanged or worse so it's doubtful she could rally the troops for such a suicide mission. 

Last night I laughed at the utter stupidity of it all, but after thinking back on it, it's actually annoying for me to realize this is all this show is willing to give me for "entertainment" and they call it a day. 

To suspend so much disbelief so much of the time is just not feasible, and I am tired of feeling tired and constantly acknowledging that it's the most thankless, pointless chore to watch a fictional TV show that seems determined to insult my intellect every chance it gets. 

They may as well rename the show to "Coincidence Place" because that's really where all the action happens.

This show is powered by sheer coincidence, dumbfounding improbability, and the most amazing lucky streak known to mankind, aka June's lifespan. 

[sadie]

I was so bored by this. It wasn’t even a good “bottle” episode in that normally with those the show deviates from its norm to give us insight into a particular character. We got nothing new from this other than we learned of some weird new ritual where a Handmaid has to kneel for months while her legs atrophy to pray for their walking partner. Huh?

The only few minutes of any interest was the talk with the doctor but it was so minimal I can’t forgive the rest of the ep. It just dragged. We already know they don’t care about the Handmaids, only the babies, I didn’t need to watch this woman die for an hour to be discarded once the baby was done being baked. And June’s “revelation” to get all the children out of Gilead would have felt more earned if she had done anything productive this season. If at this point we knew she was hatching a plan, passing notes to Martha’s, adding up her numbers of handmaids and the like that want to fight, setting up secret meeting places, plotting the movements of guards, shift changes, where they keep the weapons THEN her lightbulb moment would have had some meaning. But she’s done ZERO of anything. 

Once again the show runners are more focused on visuals. Stark white room, red cloaked Handmaid. Row of blue clad wives with blue umbrellas walking in step with row of pink clad girls with pink umbrellas. Pretty visual, yes, add anything to the story, no.

I would have more enjoyed an episode about the factories they must have that does nothing but make blue dresses, dye blue shoes, make blue umbrellas, etc. Where do they get all this fabric in nothing but blue, red, pink and grey? That would have been a better bottle ep than this mess. And on a shallow note, someone needs to market the boots the handmaids wear because they are fabulous and I want a pair. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by sadie

[tennisgurl]

Maybe at some point in the show, I could have liked this episode, maybe as a character study, a look into the effects of solitary confinement, or even a look at how medicine works in crazy anti science Gilead. 

Unfortunately, its during this fucking season, so an episode totally focused on June mugging for the camera, getting away with literally everything from mocking and cursing at Aunt Lydia to a few murder attempts, her self important voice overs, and supposed "badass" promises about saving the kids, just makes me want to claw my own eyes out. June has been the weakest part of the whole season (with the crocodile tears of Serena as a close second) so a whole episode based around her is literally the last thing I want to see. Besides, as many others have already said, this is just more of the same in a season where NOTHING FREAKING HAPPENS. June gets upset, she lashes out, she decides to save the world, never does more than flop around aimlessly getting random people hurt, rinse and repeat. I cannot believe instead of some, ANY plot motion, we get this right now.  

The only bits I really liked where Jeannine telling June how selfish she is (preach Jeannine!) and the bit with the doctor who knew Junes mother. Of course June gets shitty with him about Gilead putting the baby before the mother (yeah June, shit talk a guy you hardly know who is currently helping you over things he has no control over) but everything following that was actually really good, and I am glad that the doctor was actually a decent guy. The actor did a lot with his one scene, especially the Do No Harm line, he just sounded so sad, now working in a place without that oath alive anymore. 

It does make me wonder about how medicine and such works in Gilead, and how they have all these advanced practices and tech around, considering most people who were in charge of those things are probably dead or long gone, and the people still stuck here are working in this anti science system,  but I dont think this show has the capacity to really consider that anymore. 

[Quickbeam]

I sort of got this episode but the hand into the sharps box? I had to look away. That's the stuff of nightmares as a nurse. 

[charmed1]

I skipped most of the episode. But OfMatthew’s full sew-in weave. I cackled.

[Umbelina]

It's really sad how clumsy and inept these writers are.

This should have been a good "bottle" episode, better than "The Fly" in Breaking Bad in some ways, which is one of the few episodes that was just ok to me. 

As I kind of said before, it's that, in the context of the rest of the show the past two seasons?  It didn't work for many, and I totally get that.  We've lost trust in this showrunner.   I honestly hesitate to blame all the writers, because basically, they are just being told what to write, and it's not the actually episode writing that is terrible most of the time, it's the continuity, the overall vision of the show.   They are told what the episode is about and then they are supposed to write within those parameters. 

As a stand alone?  I still think it was very good.  It's surrounded by shit though, so it's going to smell.

In THEORY June "graduating" to not just wanting to save her own child, but all the children is admirable and shows character growth.  In THEORY that is how all progress is made, it begins with one person who isn't going to take it anymore, or sees the need to do something about it.  In THEORY not having "skills" to accomplish a noble or worthy goal doesn't mean that someone can't try, or start a movement that will eventually reach those goals.  In THEORY we should be cheering her on.

Obviously the problem is that we, justifiably, because of other terrible writing and character actions and consequences, see this as just another June trip on the Merry Go 'Round which will go nowhere, and will end with us (and June) right back where we started. 

It's OK that June is flawed, and human, and makes mistakes because I'm pretty sure that is true of all revolutionaries who try (and fail) and try again to effect change.  True heroes screw up, true heroes are afraid and keep fighting anyway.  True heroes are not perfect people, and while what they may accomplish may not be huge, their small steps do make a difference in the overall arc of overcoming oppression.

This Show Runner has it all really, great actors, a huge and complicated and timely and important story to tell.  His first big fail was making Gilead

Spoiler

colorblind,

because it is frankly, ridiculous.  There are SO many ways this didn't need to be an all

Spoiler

white

cast to tell Atwood's story, there were important stories that could have been told using this cast, especially since so very much of this show is flashbacks...but instead, we got this drivel.

Instead of writing a touching story about June's oppression leading to a resolve to fight back though?  We get "The Peril's of Pauline" with no significant consequences for her, or even, often resolves to those various PERIL! situations.  (I'll include Fred and Serena in that "no real consequences" group.)  This season corrected that a bit, but not enough for many.

In the end, they have people rooting against their heroine, a woman suffering horrors in Gilead.  It's bizarre how much they have squandered in their attempt to drag this out and have blockbuster moments.

Meanwhile, they are also squandering the actors in Canada, who should be, you know, DOING SOMETHING TO HELP their country!

Then to make matters worse, they threw in ridiculous stories about Mexico and now the idiotic custody battle, either of which COULD have at least paid off with a better look at the world reaction to Gilead, but instead, they shy away from actually telling a complete story, and after opening those doors?  Dive back into the personal and avoid at all costs the macro.

I'm here for the macro at this point.  Period.

The signs are there that it's coming, but it damn well better come soon.  This whole cock-teasing routine of this horrible showrunner is complete bullshit, whether it be for PERIL or showing us Gilead and the World, (and no, I mean much more than apartments in Canada or DC.) 

Is it too late to win back the audience?  Probably, but it's a shame, because this could, still, be so good.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 7/17/2019 at 12:56 AM, AnswersWanted said:

Ooooh baby, do you know what that’s worth? Ooooh heaven is a place is a place on earth! 

I am dying laughing. Am wearing a tank top right now with that quote (a "San Junipero" T from Snorg, my new favorite e-tailer.) 

I need to rewatch this tonight. Either I was way too tired to watch when I did or basically the entire thing was gobbledygook.

[violet and green]

RIP show.

I see no hope for the rest of the season now, given it's taken this long to get to here (ie, a brief moment of logic for June), and all we've had are two visually pretty episodes (1. Washington and 2. Hospital - though this one d.r.a.g.g.e.d....) and a load of thrashing about plot-wise, and motivation-wise, in some kind of spin cycle, and the only thing that has developed is my intense dislike for June. I'm sad.

[Linderhill]

On 7/17/2019 at 8:35 PM, Joana said:

I thought June requested to stay at the hospital because she hoped her daughter would pop up (not that it would have made sense as she's not going to be flowering any time soon, which she actually acknowledged, but still), not because she was genuinely concerned for Natalie. Oh well. I feel like the birth of the baby was supposed to represent June's spiritual rebirth of some sort. Too bad I don't really care about her anymore.

this is exactly what I thought.  I was ready to be disgusted with her again for blatantly manipulating Lydia so she could hang around to see Hannah.  And then, surprise, surprise, she actually sat with Natalie and talked to her, repenting her awfulness.

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

n THEORY June "graduating" to not just wanting to save her own child, but all the children is admirable and shows character growth. 

The scene reminded me a bit of this scene in the Starz show Spartacus (one of the most underrated shows of the last 20 years, especially if your still interested in exploring issues of consent and personhood. I swear) where our hero Spartacus basically decides that he is going to start his slave revolt against the Roman Empire. Like with June, he has spent much of his time enslaved focused mostly on his own survival and suffering, and trying to find his also enslaved wife, and while he does try to sometimes help people out a bit in the first season, he is pretty much focused on himself and his own survival, which is understandable of course, but then throughout the first season he continues to witness the atrocities that are put upon Romes slaves, and it all culminates near the end of season one, where he looks on at the horrible injustices happening to innocent people, and you can see the moment of clarity on his face where he  realizes that this is bigger than him or his family, that this whole system is evil and he has to burn this motherfucker down, and then...well lots of historical stuff happens.

Except that moment was freaking awesome and was a major turning point in the series, while we have seen this moment from June about thirty times by now, and yet literally nothing has changed, so it just comes across as "ugggg again?" and instead of a culmination of a whole seasons events, its just random. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by tennisgurl

[AnswersWanted]

5 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

I am dying laughing. Am wearing a tank top right now with that quote (a "San Junipero" T from Snorg, my new favorite e-tailer.) 

I need to rewatch this tonight. Either I was way too tired to watch when I did or basically the entire thing was gobbledygook.

I am still humming that tune, this show has put a pox on me! 

Oh, if I watched this show completely sober and awake I probably would have smashed my tablet by now. 

I actually forgot when the show first premiered this season so I watched the first episodes during the daytime and OMG I nearly keeled over. 

4 hours ago, violet and green said:

RIP show.

I see no hope for the rest of the season now, given it's taken this long to get to here (ie, a brief moment of logic for June), and all we've had are two visually pretty episodes (1. Washington and 2. Hospital - though this one d.r.a.g.g.e.d....) and a load of thrashing about plot-wise, and motivation-wise, in some kind of spin cycle, and the only thing that has developed is my intense dislike for June. I'm sad.

Preach. 

Last season made me sad over the obvious decline from season 1, but this season has just pissed me right off. 

I am convinced you could switch seasons and have season 2 episodes airing right now and they would show more forward momentum and plot focused action than this season in clear crisis. 

The writers didn’t just keep June in Gilead by not having her escape, they have trapped the whole goddamn show in a never ending cycle of “been there, done that, torture porn, June closeups”. 

We have not been given any payoffs yet this whole season. Just more of the same old same. 

[ferjy]

On 7/17/2019 at 8:35 PM, Joana said:

I feel like the birth of the baby was supposed to represent June's spiritual rebirth of some sort. Too bad I don't really care about her anymore.

Ha! They’ve turned our sympathetic emotions off where June is concerned. A moment that should be stirring but, frankly, my dear, we don’t give a damn.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

So, yeah, rewatched it last night and while I now get it, I can see why I thought gobbledygook (that said, I definitely was snoozing on and off that first time) ...

As always, the posters here have said so many insightful things way better than I ever could, so I'm just nodding and going, Yes! Yes! Really? OHHHHH I get it!

But two thoughts ... 

I can't remember how June was fathered (assuming her mom was staunch feminist lesbian before her birth) but is it at all possible that kind doctor actually IS her "birth father"? He was a ray of sunshine (as much as this show can have one this season) and I'd love to see more of him. If he worked with her mom, and she could choose the donor, he'd have been an excellent choice. 

Also ... someone mentioned they thought the sight of the girls triggering June was a stretch because of the age difference between them and Hannah, but my thought when we saw that first little pink parade was not specifically the individual girls themselves that triggered her but the pale pink habit, since IIRC the last few times we saw Hannah that was how she was dressed.

I'm still in on this because ... well, it's summer and I don't have much on my dance card anyway ... but it's no longer "It's Wednesday!!! Gotta clear the deck for Handmaid's Tale" 

[chaifan]

Oh PamelaMae, I really really really hope your theory about the nice doctor is wrong, and I also hope that the showrunners/writers aren't reading this post and going "hey! now that's an idea!"  Because I can take June's plot armor, I can take June's endless smirks, I can take June's closeups.  But I really don't think I could take June finding her long lost daddy in all of this.  That would be one Juneism too far for me. 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

Oh PamelaMae, I really really really hope your theory about the nice doctor is wrong, and I also hope that the showrunners/writers aren't reading this post and going "hey! now that's an idea!"  Because I can take June's plot armor, I can take June's endless smirks, I can take June's closeups.  But I really don't think I could take June finding her long lost daddy in all of this.  That would be one Juneism too far for me. 

LOLOL ... it's not really a theory ... just a thought that occurred to me to wonder about, mainly BECAUSE they are going so fakakata (sp? yiddish-ish) this season, the further and further away they get from what was already written/published. And with so few palatable male characters, maybe they're thinking a sympathetic guy who maybe possibly could be HER DAD would be a way to go?

[SuzieQ]

LONGEST. EPISODE. EVER!

[Ceindreadh]

Well I learned one thing from this episode. How to pronounce menarche properly. 

I also thought it rhymed with arch. (Still think it sounds nicer my way)

[ferjy]

On 7/18/2019 at 8:18 AM, AnswersWanted said:

We barely saw June dip her toes into the pool of resistance this season, she has nothing going for her on that front and she has no connections whatsoever to any forces powerful and capable enough to even get her half the way there. 

It’s the June Rescue Squad (of one), of course! She’ll hide them under her red cloak, serpentine the roads (on foot) to the border, swim through the water that Emily almost drowned in with one babe, and safely hand them over to Moira (oops, one suffocated; “oh well, 9 out of 10 ain’t bad,” June muses), then head back to rescue more (alas, she could only manage to cram 10 tots under her cloak - bigger cloak on the agenda!).

On 7/18/2019 at 8:18 AM, AnswersWanted said:

And if they want to bring Nick back into this and imply that he can somehow help her pull this off, again that's just pure and total bullshit.

You know that’s exactly what will happen. But then, it wouldn’t be the sole June Show. No, I’m going with my Rescue Squad scenario. 

[Ashforth]

On 7/17/2019 at 7:45 PM, Umbelina said:

Something tells me we will see more of Janine now.  It won't take hours in the make up chair to get her ready anymore, just throw on the eye patch, wimple, and red and she'll be ready to go.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Ashforth]

On 7/17/2019 at 10:51 PM, chaifan said:

The doctor showed a rare glimpse into a man who is not blindly loyal to Gilead.  I liked seeing this, especially from a doctor.  I'd think doctors would be the most likely of those still alive to not buy into the Gilead BS - highly educated, ethical code that would be wholly opposite of Gilead's religious code, hard wired to help, not hurt people.  I know there have been doctors that have done horrible things throughout history (Nazi Germany), but I believe the majority would resist before doing that.  He plays along to some extent (putting the baby's well being above Nicole's), but still shows compassion to June. 

...

Second totally random thought... even if you can accept the limited use of technology, the color coded outfits (and accessories - matching umbrellas!), etc. what kind of evil would ban the use of rolling suitcases???

This is the second doctor we've seen that's been subversive, the first being the gynecologist in S1 who offered (in a creepy/rapey way) to help June out by impregnating her. It was gross, but he did make the point that Handmaids were being punished for failing to conceive when the Commanders are the ones who are sterile.

Of course, the monthly medical evaluation aspect of Handmaid-ism (with its apparent opportunity to communicate with a sympathizer while no one else is present - and I'm not even going to go into why that was in and of itself unrealistic in Gilead) has fallen by the wayside. 

The consistent problem with THT is its inconsistency. In the days before Ofmatthew was shot at Loaves and Fishes, another Handmaid was in labor that stopped and re-started and then gave birth to a stillborn baby with the umbilical cord around its neck. The birthing ceremonies were like cultist Little House on the Prairie scenarios (Ma: Boil some water, Laura!), with nary a medical professional in sight and zero indication that the Handmaid and her baby received any prenatal care or a doctor's attention during a labor obviously fraught with danger. Yet in this episode, modern or mostly modern medical technology is brought to full bore to save the baby of a brain-dead Handmaid and the doctor says his job is saving the babies. Which is it? 

In other news, I wondered about the suitcase issue before. It is ridiculous. All about the visuals. Where would Gilead even get a supply of 1950's red Samsonite luggage?

Edited July 20, 2019 by Ashforth

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, Ashforth said:

This is the second doctor we've seen that's been subversive, the first being the gynecologist in S1 who offered (in a creepy/rapey way) to help June out by impregnating her. It was gross, but he did make the point that Handmaids were being punished for failing to conceive when the Commanders are the ones who are sterile.

Of course, the monthly medical evaluation aspect of Handmaid-ism (with its apparent opportunity to communicate with a sympathizer while no one else is present - and I'm not even going to go into why that was in and of itself unrealistic in Gilead) has fallen by the wayside. 

The consistent problem with THT is its inconsistency. In the days before Ofmatthew was shot at Loaves and Fishes, another Handmaid was in labor that stopped and re-started and then gave birth to a stillborn baby with the umbilical cord around its neck. The birthing ceremonies were like cultist Little House on the Prairie scenarios (Ma: Boil some water, Laura!), with nary a medical professional in sight and zero indication that the Handmaid and her baby received any prenatal care or a doctor's attention during a labor obviously fraught with danger. Yet in this episode, modern or mostly modern medical technology is brought to full bore to save the baby of a brain-dead Handmaid and the doctor says his job is saving the babies. Which is it? 

In other news, I wondered about the suitcase issue before. It is ridiculous. All about the visuals. Where would Gilead even get a supply of 1950's red Samsonite luggage?

Given that Gilead has lost probably half or more of its medical personnel, maybe it’s simply a case of lack of resources. There’s not going to be any midwives around - or at least none in a position to be a midwife. How many OB-GYNs stuck around and didn’t end up on the wall or in the colonies?

And the whole point of the ridiculous birthing ceremony is so that the Commanders wives (or accomplice rapists) can pretend that this is actually ‘their’ baby rather than one that they’re kidnapping from their rape victim.  

[scrb]

Such a small part of the episode, where June talks to the girl about the grim future which awaits her and says that she will free them all, not just get her daughter and herself out.

Seems unconnected to this maniacal efforts to save the baby, other than June saw all those girls brought into the hospital all the time and determines that she can leave these girls behind in Gilead.

For a moment, I thought the aunts would screw up and bring Hanna to the hospital instead of keeping her from June.

Janine’s character has done a 180, from openly mocking Gilead and the idea of Handmaids to almost a true believer.

Is there any remnant of the defiant and mocking Janine left?

[Ashforth]

On 7/20/2019 at 6:56 PM, scrb said:

Such a small part of the episode, where June talks to the girl about the grim future which awaits her and says that she will free them all, not just get her daughter and herself out.

Seems unconnected to this maniacal efforts to save the baby, other than June saw all those girls brought into the hospital all the time and determines that she can leave these girls behind in Gilead.

For a moment, I thought the aunts would screw up and bring Hanna to the hospital instead of keeping her from June.

Janine’s character has done a 180, from openly mocking Gilead and the idea of Handmaids to almost a true believer.

Is there any remnant of the defiant and mocking Janine left?

My impression is that Janine doesn't believe in Gilead's religion or rules, but has accepted her fate. She definitely has full on Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to Aunt Lydia. I'm hoping we see more of her - I'd like to see her home life as a Handmaid. In fact, I think THT should do an episode that focuses on Janine in her Commander's house, same with Alma, let's give Rita an episode. Let's get back to the Martha network. Hell, I miss Serena and Fred.  I'm not gonna lie, I don't really give a shit about Canada and the expatriots there, because they have been given so little to other than look glum. 

I guess this was an Emmy reel episode for Moss. I found the first third, or half? Boring. Maybe I'm too literal, but they made it look like June was kneeling in prayer 24/7. Even with being allowed to go to bed at night, and presumably being fed, June was tortured. They could have shown the whole routine from the beginning. I liked the scene with the doctor a lot.

I can see why Commander Lawrence didn't swoop in to rescue her. Aunt Lydia still called her "Ofjoseph," but it had seemed that June was going to be pulled from that posting. Even if she's going to stay, Lawrence doesn't have patience for stupidity like taking his wife to the girls' school and the bridge attack and bullying that could focus unwanted attention on his household and put everyone in it in danger.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Ashforth

[Ms Blue Jay]

One of the worst episodes of this show, or any show

Edited July 22, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[AngelaHunter]

Hated this all-June-closeups-all-the-time episode, but couldn't help but wonder: Babies are all-important. They mean everything. So WHY are not all babies delivered in that state-of-the-art hospital with skilled doctors? Why are they being born in homes, with a bunch of non-medical handmaids chanting over them like primitives? The baby last week might have been saved by medical intervention, instead of Aunt Lydia declaring it a total loss one second after it was born. Are they saving the doctors and fully equipped hospitals only for mothers who are brain dead? What's the deal with that?

Of all the things nonsensical things in this show, that one makes the least sense.

[AngelaHunter]

11 hours ago, Ashforth said:

I liked the scene with the doctor a lot.

I liked it because it was a little break from June-Face - well, maybe not but at least there was another face there and we got a few seconds of non-June-Face-  and it was also a nice interlude to hear someone for once speaking like an actual human being having a conversation. 

11 hours ago, Ashforth said:

. She definitely has full on Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to Aunt Lydia.

Definitely.

[Callaphera]

A hulu executive somewhere in the world earlier this year: "Wow, HBO sure shit the bed with GoT, didn't they? Thank God Gilead we're better than that!"
The Handmaid's Tale: "Here, hold our microbrew!" *drops the overall story for S3 on the table*

(Yes, I know it was probably filmed before GoT aired.)

Normally I swing by here on Sundays before watching the broadcast and find four or five pages of discussion (dragging, really, and it's good) on the episode. When I saw there was only 2 pages for this one, I cringed because I knew it was going to be bad. And it was. 

[SourK]

LMAO. I should learn not to doubt the forum posters. Last week people were saying, "Janine keeps getting hit in the face because they want to stop doing her eye makeup" and I was like, "nah." But now she has an eye patch, so yeah.

I am intrigued by the glimpse we got of Serena joy in which a) she's dressed more like she was in season one, but fancier, b) her super villain-like prosthetic finger is matched with her outfit, and c) she's swaning around like she's a celebrity again. HAS this whole "bring my kid back from Canada" thing made her a celebrity again? Didn't she and Fred move to DC? Does she have an evil cat to pet while she plots her latest scheme?

On 7/17/2019 at 7:51 AM, goldilocks said:

Silly doctor, he had no idea of June’s thick plot armor.

Maybe he did. Maybe we've had it wrong, and Gilead believes that, if you want to be a rebel, the worst punishment is having no one react to anything you do.

[Dobian]

"In next week's episode, June plots to assassinate the Gilead leadership with a potato peeler."

[Joana]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

"In next week's episode, June plots to assassinate the Gilead leadership with a potato peeler."

The plot is thwarted and the two remaining black handmaids in Gilead are executed. Janine gets savagely beaten, just for the good measure. Aunt Lydia tells June that there would be consequences, which actually means she gets to avoid the ceremony for yet another month. June mouths her off. Serena shows up for 45 seconds so she and June could stare fiercely at each other. The episode ends with a close-up of June looking resilient with a voiceover saying "Fuck this". 

[Ashforth]

22 hours ago, SourK said:

I am intrigued by the glimpse we got of Serena joy in which a) she's dressed more like she was in season one, but fancier, b) her super villain-like prosthetic finger is matched with her outfit, and c) she's swaning around like she's a celebrity again. HAS this whole "bring my kid back from Canada" thing made her a celebrity again? Didn't she and Fred move to DC? Does she have an evil cat to pet while she plots her latest scheme?

Ooooooh that would be delicious, dahling.

7 minutes ago, Joana said:

The plot is thwarted and the two remaining black handmaids in Gilead are executed. Janine gets savagely beaten, just for the good measure. Aunt Lydia tells June that there would be consequences, which actually means she gets to avoid the ceremony for yet another month. June mouths her off. Serena shows up for 45 seconds so she and June could stare fiercely at each other. The episode ends with a close-up of June looking resilient with a voiceover saying "Fuck this". 

Let's not forget that the Martha who June forced into handing over the peeler is also "salvaged."

And the Lawrences have to eat unpeeled potatoes. Quel horreur!

Edited July 23, 2019 by Ashforth

[kieyra]

22 minutes ago, Joana said:

The episode ends with a close-up of June looking resilient with a voiceover saying "Fuck this". 

While “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun” leads us triumphantly into the credits.

[greekmom]

The one thing that bothered me was SJ's comment to June: "You were suppose to be one of the strong ones."

It just reinforces how sick SJ and the whole concept of this world they created.

[snowbryneich]

On 7/19/2019 at 6:45 PM, PamelaMaeSnap said:

So, yeah, rewatched it last night and while I now get it, I can see why I thought gobbledygook (that said, I definitely was snoozing on and off that first time) ...

As always, the posters here have said so many insightful things way better than I ever could, so I'm just nodding and going, Yes! Yes! Really? OHHHHH I get it!

But two thoughts ... 

I can't remember how June was fathered (assuming her mom was staunch feminist lesbian before her birth) but is it at all possible that kind doctor actually IS her "birth father"? He was a ray of sunshine (as much as this show can have one this season) and I'd love to see more of him. If he worked with her mom, and she could choose the donor, he'd have been an excellent choice. 

Also ... someone mentioned they thought the sight of the girls triggering June was a stretch because of the age difference between them and Hannah, but my thought when we saw that first little pink parade was not specifically the individual girls themselves that triggered her but the pale pink habit, since IIRC the last few times we saw Hannah that was how she was dressed.

I'm still in on this because ... well, it's summer and I don't have much on my dance card anyway ... but it's no longer "It's Wednesday!!! Gotta clear the deck for Handmaid's Tale" 

I thought it was interesting that she gave her mother's name as Dr Holly Maddox, when her name is June Osborne - she didn't take Luke's name (Bankole?) when they married so where did Osborne come from? In the book June's father is not in the picture at all (spoiler below) so why would her mother give her his name? Seems unlikely, I'd assumed her mother's surname was Osborne as well until this episode.

 

 

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Spoiler

June is solely raised by her mother who wasn't a lesbian (I don't think) though was a staunch feminist and her father is someone her mother picked because she wanted a baby and then sent him on his way because she didn't need his help or his money to raise a kid.

[Commander Chaos]

I really liked this episode, but honestly I like all of them.  Being confined in that hospital room for over a month finally pushed June over the edge.  Had it not been for that nice doctor, she would have been up on the wall.  I remember Nick telling her that Gilead breaks everyone, and it definitely broke June.  However, the episode saw her come back with a purpose.

I have also seen comments about how unrealistic certain parts of the show are, but I do not agree with them.  Are they aware they are watching a fictional television show?  I am not expecting realism from a show based on a fictional novel.  Based on the situations I have seen on the show, June would have been up on the wall or sent to the Colonies by now. 

Also, I am thinking that its only a matter of time before June is sent to the Colonies to be reunited with her mom. I really don't care, because I love this show.  CC

[Kel Varnsen]

So if this episode tool place over weeks if not months, is it possible Canada told Gileas to go fuck themselves and the whole baby Nicole thing is done?

On 7/17/2019 at 10:29 PM, Umbelina said:

 I remember them talking about make up for that kind of eye injury on other shows, 4-6 hours, so that little eye-patch should free her up.

It can't possibly take that long can it? I mean in the first Guardians of the Galaxy they did Dave Bautista's entire body in Drax make up in about that time. By the time they did the sequel it was under 2 hours.

[kieyra]

25 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It can't possibly take that long can it? I mean in the first Guardians of the Galaxy they did Dave Bautista's entire body in Drax make up in about that time. By the time they did the sequel it was under 2 hours.

Marvel Cinematic Universe budget versus Hulu budget? Just spitballing though. But I could see a big team working on Drax, and 1-2 makeup artists, with fewer resources, doing Janine’s mangled eye. 

No idea, though.

[Umbelina]

31 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So if this episode tool place over weeks if not months, is it possible Canada told Gileas to go fuck themselves and the whole baby Nicole thing is done?

It can't possibly take that long can it? I mean in the first Guardians of the Galaxy they did Dave Bautista's entire body in Drax make up in about that time. By the time they did the sequel it was under 2 hours.

Eyes are tricky, especially when glued shut, since it's a bit dangerous.  I'm taking my guess on times from DVD commentaries, I know on True Blood it took a while to do eyes safely (Sookie's brother) and I'm pretty sure there was commentary on a Breaking Bad, wait, more than one BB episode commentary, Jesse talks about how long it took to do his eyes, how uncomfortable it was, and sitting in make up forever.  So, just from commentaries....

Either way, I guessed we'd now see more of Janine, and Yay!  We are!

[kieyra]

Oh right. Jesse on BB frequently walked around with his face jacked up from various beatdowns.

[Anela]

3 hours ago, Commander Chaos said:

I have also seen comments about how unrealistic certain parts of the show are, but I do not agree with them.  Are they aware they are watching a fictional television show?  I am not expecting realism from a show based on a fictional novel.  Based on the situations I have seen on the show, June would have been up on the wall or sent to the Colonies by now. 

That's why it's seen as unrealistic: because she isn't on the wall, or in the colonies. Very aware that it's fictional, I read the book years ago, and saw the original TV movie. 

[kilda]

can I just mention how incredibly twisted Janine and Lydia's relationship is?  Lydia is the one that got her eye removed in the first place, and now when she gives her an eye patch to cover it, they both see it as this warm act of kindness?  it's so, so twisted.

[Cornhusker12]

A couple things I've learned about TV critics:

1. They are obsessed with bottle episodes
2. They feel the need to praise Elisabeth Moss in every review even if they go on to criticize her in any way

[Token]

Oh good, I’m glad that the show’s creators clearly got our feedback that we really love all the brooding close-ups of June’s face.  I was worried that they might stop.